American “Christians”, you are NOT being oppressed. Repeat, NOT BEING OPPRESSED.

[riqster]

http://bluntandcranky.wordpress.com/2014/09/29/american-christians-you-are-not-being-oppressed-repeat-not-being-oppressed/

Here is the latest in a flurry of non-reality-based memes on the subject:



How wrong is it? Let us count the ways:
Number A: they are free to say grace over their meal. Nobody ever said they couldn’t. But the meme falsely implies that they are bravely taking a stand against some mythical oppressor who seeks to stop their prayer. There is, of course, no such oppressor, but that fact matters not at all to the Fundagelicals.

Letter 2: see anybody there pelting these hard-working public servants with atheistic tracts? Nope. Most Americans don’t much care who you pray to, when, how or why.

Thirdly: assuming that the promulgators of this meme consider themselves to be Christians, they should read Rebbe Yeshuah bar Joseph’s words in Matthew:6. You know, the words about not being phony and ostentatious in their prayer.

Odds are, the people depicted had nothing to do with the meme: just people saying grace before a meal. Good on them. It’s their right to do so.

The problem is with the yahoo prostletyzers who are using this ordinary picture to try and enforce their wingnut agendas on the rest of us. This writer wishes they’d spend more time reading their Constitutions and less trying to subvert it.

[Mariana]

1. You never know when Christians might be persecuted

for praying in public. Someone might roll their eyes, or say Happy Holidays, or something like that. It's a hard world out there.

[riqster]

2. Why you're right: I am oppressing them by writing this!

I'm such a bad, bad person.....

[peace13]

3. Soooo funny...

Reminds me of a story. When my husband was a little boy he was reading out loud and his mother asked him to read to himself. He asked her how to do that. Cracks me up. People can pray where ever, whenever. No one can stop them. Just do as momma says and keep it inside your head!

Really I don't care if people pray out load in public but when they wok for the public I do worry that they may let my house burn down or leave me to bleed out by the road if I don't agree with their god.

But forgive me for thinking out loud! : )

[Purrfessor]

11. That's exactly how the atheist firefighter in this photograph feels.

[alphafemale]

17. Yep. That's my thought. nt

[bvf]

4. Excellent.

The first step to getting people to rally to your cause is to tell them they're under attack by some malevolent force.

Propaganda 101.

[riqster]

49. Yep. Been used since time immemorial, it has.

[Kalidurga]

5. They talk about persecution a whole lot but,

if they were faced with the real deal like gas chamber style persecution they might understand how silly their persecution claims are to people who have a family history of that kind of persecution.

[riqster]

30. S'truth. My people were Huguenots. I have no stomach for oppressors.

Especially those who claim that God wants them to oppress others.

[Kalidurga]

39. Well then we might be distant cousins

I am a mutt so probably a distant cousin to nearly everyone.

[riqster]

41. Heard that.

Gascon French and Highland Scot here, with a bit of English, Norman, and maybe some Irish.

[Kalidurga]

70. Yay

Same here, my ancestors came to the US on one of the Mayflower ships and the Lyons and well a whole lot of other ships. I did my family tree it seems like whenever there was a historical problem they were in the middle of it.

[riqster]

71. 1774 is as far back as I have gotten on this side of the pond.

Mostly we just kept our heads down and worked since then. Not a very consequential lot on any of the branches of the family tree.

[Kalidurga]

72. Lucky you

That is what I was hoping for my family.

[riqster]

73. Well, after what happened in the Old Countries, we needed some ignoring.

Having attention paid to one is not always a good thing, as well you know.

Hope things improve for your family.

[Gemini Cat]

58. Indeed! +1

[DeadLetterOffice]

6. I wonder if the meme-makers & forwarders...

... would be so defensive of public prayer if the prayers were, say... Wiccan? If I called on the four directions before I ate my meal, d'you s'pose they'd applaud me for my bravery and for not being afraid? Or if I were to pray in Hebrew? Or Arabic?

Somehow, I think this meme is only about not being afraid to pray like a Christian. The rest of us? We can just go fuck off.

Makes me nuts -- as if Christianity invented the concept of prayer. Oy.

[ChazInAz]

16. I can see it now....

A basketball player in the last seconds of a game, sweating with tension on the free-throw line, whips out a prayer shawl, puts on a yarmulke and starts davenning like mad before taking the shot!
THAT would certainly make my day.

[riqster]

19. "This shot is for you, Yahweh!"

Things you never expect to see.

[Uncle Joe]

7. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, rigster.

[riqster]

48. Thanks, Unc'.

[Xolodno]

8. Given that "Christianity" is getting smaller in USA due to....

...losing converts to Mormons (Fundamentalists don't consider them Christian)

...losing converts to JW's (see above comment)

...losing converts to Islam.

...losing converts to Atheism/Agnostic


I'm convinced that them giving out tracts isn't about converting others....but creating a hostile situation with someone "militant" so they "feel" like they are being persecuted.

Likewise, manufacturing bogus stuff as if someone one was telling them were not allowed to pray....or creating bogus stories about some elite left wing "professor" knocking down God (when if such a situation occurred....he would have a nasty lawsuit on his hands).

And the wholesale vicious hate rhetoric they spew against Mormons, JW's, Islam and Athiests...is obvious an attempt to create an atmosphere of fear.

[riqster]

47. Fear makes people easily malleable.

[Bluenorthwest]

55. And yet wholesale vicious hate rhetoric against gay people is a common trait of all those groups

except for the atheists. Hard for me to weep about religious folks who all attack me if they happen to spew against one another. I'd rather that the focus on each other and leave the rest of us alone.
Mormons, JW's, Muslims, all of these groups speak against, organize to oppose and often violently react to LGBT people and our rights. Hell, Pope Francis says fighting LGBT rights is 'God's war which we must all fight' and many on DU openly admire him. One assumes they also fight his war with him if one is not an idiot.

[EEO]

9. Disagree.

[bvf]

13. Funny! n/t.

[riqster]

20. Best. Pie. Chart. Ever.

[truebrit71]

27. Brilliant!

:-D

[padfun]

10. If anything, they're oppressing US!

n/t

[riqster]

28. From your lips to God's ear.

If you'll pardon the expression.

[Gore1FL]

12. Technically, Christians should pray in public. Jesus said not to.

Matthew 6:5-8

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Don't get me wrong. I don't buy any of it. It's still a fun verse to quote in reponse to such pictures.

On edit:
Now that I read closer, that was essentially your point 3

[riqster]

21. Yep, same with charity.

My denomination used Red Letter bibles, and those were most helpful in maintaining a focus on the words of Jesus.

Those that remained after the Paulines put the Gospels through a theological cuisinart, anyway. Amazing how different the New Testament reads when you deemphasize Paul.

[ColesCountyDem]

14. I don't now feel and never have felt oppressed.

I went to both Sunday School and church yesterday, and no one made fun of me, blocked my way into or out of church, censored anything that was discussed, sung or preached from the pulpit, etc. . Yesterday was like every Sunday for the last (almost) 60 years.

I'm not feeling the oppression, frankly.

[riqster]

22. Not I. But then, I am not using a holy book for propaganda purposes.

Nor, I imagine, are you.

[ColesCountyDem]

23. Correct, riqster.

[riqster]

25. Keep the faith, my friend.

[ColesCountyDem]

26. You do the same, my friend.

[RKP5637]

34. +1, n/t

[marble falls]

62. I say +1, too. There was no need to hide that comment. And I am christian.

[yeoman6987]

67. I was expecting some really foul post from the hidden post

Dang.....so disappointed. Just surprising it was hidden.

[marble falls]

78. Very surprised. Specially with the nasty things said about Christians in all sorts of other ops.

[yeoman6987]

79. True!

[SleeplessinSoCal]

18. A catholic priest from the island of Dominica officiated at yesterday's mass with lies

... about the first amendment. He yelled at the congregation that the founding fathers were God fearing and put in writing under the first amendment "freedom of religion" and that God must be in schools and government buildings. And he tossed Hitler in too. How Hitler's powers grew "gradually and intrusively". He did all this while demanding the Huntington Beach congregation respond with "yes" because the priest is always right.

It was horrific knowing likely hundreds there believed him. I'm paid to be there or I'd have stormed out. Nobody left that I noticed.

[riqster]

24. "Reading now, from the First Book of Godwin"...

What a messianic ass he sounds.

[LibertyLover]

94. I'm not trying to be a smart ass,

but what would someone from Dominica know about the first amendment of the US Constitution? It was French until 1763 and then British and then in 1978 it became an independent country. It's frightening that nobody in the congregation thought to question this priest's knowledge.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

109. I may never find out why he was left to officiate on his own

There are often two priests leading the mass. I'm female afforded little respect by the nice priests there. And they are Franciscans and not hard liners. Pope Frances cannot possibly approve this audacity coupled with misinformation. Frances has spoken out about atheists in a positive way. The Dominican reactionary ought to be called to Rome and read the riot act. Or defrocked!!

[Phlem]

29. wait a minute,

aren't they the ones who do the oppressing via the Republican party?

[riqster]

31. Nononono, they are the victims! Just ask Rush Hannity!

[onecaliberal]

32. They are the oppressors.

[riqster]

46. Fundagelicals are, absolutely.

[RKP5637]

33. Whenever I hear anything, most of the time, about christians they are out

oppressing someone about one thing or another.

[riqster]

50. Yep. Much like Moslems and their "evangelical" wings that are chopping off heads.

Fundagelicals want to hang women who have miscarriages, kill LGBT citizens, let Hispanic kids die in the desert, and lots of other things that are diametrically opposed to the teachings of Jesus.

But when people think "Christian", that is the image that comes to mind.

[RKP5637]

51. Some have maligned Christianity into diabolical teachings, not seeing that taking away

the labels they are the same.

[riqster]

53. As Shakespeare said, "The devil can cite scripture for his own purpose".

[RKP5637]

59. Going way back in my youth, they used to say, "beware of the devil in sheep's clothing,"

something like that. They work hard to make themselves appear benevolent and do-gooders, but underlying that veil is some pretty ugly stuff. I'm always surprised so many fall for it all, especially those that gleefully open their wallets to them. ... it has become a facade for some horrifically evil individuals and of all things, tax free.

[riqster]

61. Remember the SF short story "To Serve Man"?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serve_Man

I always thought it a good allegory for such people as you describe.

[RKP5637]

87. Yes, it is! Twilightzone also did an episode on this.

http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi2866521881/

[underthematrix]

35. did you mean hateful christians

[Jamaal510]

40. I'm guessing that's

what the quotation marks implied.

[riqster]

42. Correct. Calling one's self one doesn't make it so.

[hrmjustin]

36. There are places Christians are persecuted but the USA is not one of them.

[riqster]

45. Oh yeah. I have friends who are of middle- and near-east ancestry.

Christians there have a helluva time.

[Bigmack]

37. My favorite cartoonist...

put this one out on his blog... "Terminal Lance". Terminal Lance is a guy in the Marine Corps who remains a Lance Corporal for a looooong time. Until he gets out!



Of course he caused a "Christian persecution" shitstorm, but he doesn't care...

"Naturally it caused quite the disturbance in the force for faux Christians who might have assumed that all Marines are warriors of God. This image isn’t anti-Christian. People are telling me I’m “Christian-bashing,” by posting this image, and they’re fucking wrong. If you think I’m bashing anyone by posting this popular image (which I’ve seen numerous times prior to my posting), you’re an idiot.

If a shitty, tacky pencil sketch of a soldier with a sloppily placed Jesus sticking halfway out of the ground causes you to question humanity, you need to get out more. It’s a crime that any Kinkade wannabe hack can draw some sappy image with Christ in it and illicit genuine emotion from people, that’s power that shouldn’t exist."

I can't recommend Terminal Lance any higher. It's crude, sexist, irreverent ... all the things you guy who were in the Corps will recognize.

[riqster]

44. I wasn't in the Corps, but it still fits lots of civilians.

[yortsed snacilbuper]

38. god,

protect me from your followers!

[riqster]

43. A prayer worth reciting; in any culture full of zealots.

[Gothmog]

52. As a member of a minority religion, I do not believe that the minority is oppressing the majority

The meme is annoying. Christians are the majority religion in the US and christians see nothing wrong commenting on and discriminating against minority religions. There is no discrimination by the minority religions of the majority religion. The christians are upset that they are not being allowed to oppress and impose their views on the minority religions

[riqster]

54. Well said.

Minorities can become majorities, and minorities again. It's happened with my denomination.

Any group that finds itself in the majority would do well to remember that arc.

[Bluenorthwest]

56. And then there are those of us who are oppressed by the bulk of the religious.

It is amusing to read about how the big religions 'oppress' the smaller ones when in reality, the religions in the US are basically unified against LGBT people and choice. Their political activism is not targeting other religions. It targets LGBT people and women's rights.

[Gothmog]

64. The Reformed Movement of Judaism has been very supportive of LGBT rights for a while

Not all religious movements are aligned against the LGBT community or women rights

[Gemini Cat]

57. The maker of this meme is a self serving attention seeking moron.

No one is persecuting or oppressing the Christians here.

[riqster]

60. I suspect a more sinister motive.

That being the conversion of the USA to theocracy, along the lines of Iran: just with a single virulent strain of Christianity in control.

[Silent3]

63. But someone might be looking on thinking what they're doing is silly.

It could be even worse. Someone might ROLL THEIR EYES!

OPPRESSION, I tell you! OPPRESSION!!!

[riqster]

65. We must outlaw all thought that doesn't meet their standards, clearly.

Winston? Paging Mr. Winston Smith, you are needed at MiniTrue...

[joeglow3]

69. To be fair, people are fired for just sharing their thought and not acting (i.e. Juan Williams).

In many regards, we have an ultra sensitive culture.

[riqster]

89. Williams violated his contract. It wasn't a free speech issue.

[Yavin4]

66. We're oppressing their ability to be bigots against the GLBT community

That's how they see it.

[riqster]

68. I doubt they are that honest about it.

[strawberries]

74. are you a christian? repeat are you a christian?

if not, then how would you know? I have seen pictures all lot's religious people praying, but that doesn't mean they are not being oppressed.

[Retrograde]

75. So give us some examples of Christians being oppressed in the US

at least two, since one might be a fluke. And, no, not being able to impose one's beliefs on other people or having to put up with the existence of people with different points of view do not count as oppression.

[strawberries]

85. you mean in this country

cause we have read what is happening to christians in the ME.

I didn't make my point. My point was, until you walk in the shoes of those you are commenting on, you have no right to comment on what or how they feel.

[riqster]

90. Feelings are not facts.

[strawberries]

96. but

perception is reality

[riqster]

97. Hogwash. Karl Rove said the same thing, and remember Election Night 2012?

Reality trumped his perception.

[strawberries]

99. LOL

I am quite sure Karl Rove and I are not the only folks who have ever said perception is reality, but thanks for finding away to put us together.

Now if I had his bank account life would be good

peace and have a glass of wine

[riqster]

100. I might have one, and you do the same.

My point is this, in all seriousness: it is possible to feel oppressed when one is not being oppressed. If there is actual oppression taking place, it should be provable.

I am thinking dry Rose' of Pinot Noir. Yum!

[strawberries]

102. dry merlot here

hey we could be friends and share a glass
granted it is beer, but pretend

[riqster]

103. Done. As long as it's not a Chilean Merlot.

Had a bad experience with such.

[strawberries]

105. thanks

[riqster]

76. I'd like to claim the title, but I doubt I truly deserve it.

I work at it, though.

In any case, your question isn't really applicable, or designed to elicit a valid answer. Rather like climate change: the fact that I am not actively impacted by it doesn't prove it exists or does not exist.

Perhaps you'd like to provide other proof that Christians are oppressed in modern America?

[JoDog]

80. I am Jewish

Last week, I had to use some of my vacation time and get the permission of my supervisor so I could attend services for Rosh haShanah, perhaps the second holiest day of the Jewish calendar. On Friday, I will take a half day of vacation time to prepare for the fast of Yom Kippur, which is THE holiest day of the Jewish calendar.

When was the last time you had to request time off to ensure you could attend Christmas, Easter, or Good Friday services? I'm guessing you never have needed to, since those are all recognized as FEDERAL holidays. That means the Christian faith is the faith of the establishment.

Employers are REQUIRED to give those days off to employees or pay them AT LEAST time and a half for every second they must work on those holidays. Even the many service industry workers get those days off.

When you need to ask your boss to take time off to go to a Christmas service or Mass, then you can complain about unfairness. Until then, kiss my Yiddish tochus.

[strawberries]

83. you are kind of wrong

I work in IT and when you are oncall Christmas Easter all that you mentioned doesn't matter. You are OnCall

[riqster]

86. I work in IT too, and have for over 40 years. You are more than kinda wrong.

Because on call status actually gives you additional bennies if you work in America and it is a federal Christian holiday.

I always felt that those holidays were violations of the Establishment Clause, for all that they benefit me personally.

[strawberries]

95. maybe we know each other

I have over 30 years in the business. On Call I have never considered it giving me addition bennies. I have worked many of Holidays when my children were small and I regret working those days.

You have the right to feel that those holidays were violations of the Establishment Clause. I have the right to feel the way I do

That doesn't make either one of us wrong

[tkmorris]

88. And when you're NOT on call...

I'm guessing you get those days off, automatically, do you not? I am further guessing that you do NOT get Jewish holidays off automatically, true?

[strawberries]

93. for those who have a monday thru friday 9-5 job

Then you are correct. For IT people, police, Hospital workers I would say no.

I know what we try to do is compliment each other. For example a non christian person would work Christmas for me and I would work theirr holiday for them.

[riqster]

84. Well said.

[Retrograde]

91. 2 out of 3

Good Friday is not a Federal holiday. It is a holiday in some states, though, but by no means in all of them. Easter is always on a Sunday, which is already covered by holiday laws. Christmas is a valid point, though (what about New Year's Day? It's a holy day for Catholics - the Feast of the Circumcision - but I don't think Protestant denominations observe it.)

I'd like to see us go the other way and observe more religious holidays in the US with time off for everyone - there's a long dry spell between January 1 and Memorial Day and I'm sure there's something somewhere that will give us a break. Lunar New Year, any one?

[el_bryanto]

81. As a white Christian Male I know that I am by far the most persecuted person who has every lived.

If you aren't me, than you really have no idea.

Bryant

[gollygee]

101. That's a picture of them being allowed to pray

in this case, a picture of oppression would be a picture of them NOT being allowed to pray.

[Jamastiene]

77. Yer gonna need some Tuck's medicated pads after posting this on DU.

I gave you a Rec out of sympathy. I agree with you, but telling some members of DU this is going to get you an ass whooping by a bunch of them.

[riqster]

82. I put on my asbestos Underoos before posting.

But thanks for the 'roid wipes. Could be useful if things get out of hand.

[Zorra]

92. Jesus spoke against hypocrites who tried to

show everyone how holy they are by making a public spectacle out of praying. He said to pray privately, and to say prayers like the Lord's Prayer, cuz God already knows what you need before you ask.
Peronally, I could care less about anyone praying in public as long as their attention seeking babble doesn't annoy everyone else in the vicinity.

[riqster]

98. Ya know, I was seated next to a couple last night,

And they were blaring the evening news via their feckin' smartphones.

Prayer would have been less disruptive, I expect.

[LanternWaste]

104. You then believe in Biblical Literalism, the passage may not be validly interpreted any other way?

"they should read Rebbe Yeshuah bar Joseph’s words in Matthew:6"

You then believe in Biblical Literalism and the passage may not be validly interpreted to have any other meaning?

[riqster]

108. Here is what I notice from The Bible (all the translations I have read),

Along with alternate gospels, apocrypha and so on as well:

Whenever the words are attributed to God or to Jesus, they tend to be more concise, cogent and direct. Compare such quotes with Paul's letters or other speakers. Quite a difference.

So I do think we can look at degrees or subtle shades of meaning, absolutely. But I don't think we can assume an opposite meaning to the material presented. Not a lot of wiggle room in the text to play with.

That's my take. Yours?

[yortsed snacilbuper]

106. What's the difference between prayer in church and prayer in a casino?

In a casino, you really mean it!

[riqster]

107. I heard it as "when the cop pulls you over".

I like yours better!