General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"He is not a Democrat."
I keep seeing that pule, here and elsewhere.
Kiss every square inch of my ass.
Senator Bernie Sanders is more of a Democrat than any of the neo-lib bags of bloody air we've been enduring for more than 25 years.
The fact that he's not a signed-and-sealed "Democrat" by party affiliation tells you all you need to know about where the party has wandered off to.
I'm on his side.
Run, Bernie. Run.
NV Whino
(20,886 posts)Darkhawk32
(2,100 posts)Hope he doesn't get Wellstoned or Carnahaned.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Darkhawk32
(2,100 posts)billhicks76
(5,082 posts)I think not. Unlike those two he poses no significant threat. And btw, Hillary is definitely not a Democrat. There is a reason she couldn't beat Obama and she will lose to either Jeb Bush(incredulously sad) or Rand Paul(only if the opposition is war hawk and pro-drugwar). Only a fool would be still pushing for her to be the nominee. Unfortunately there are always more fools than thoughtful, predictive trendsetters in any given situation.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)would they really give up on the idea of killing him just because he happened not to travel in any small planes? Or would they come up with some other way of killing him?
7962
(11,841 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)research in order to SMEAR anyone who dares to challenge them. They spend a whole lot of money on these smear campaigns as we learned when Anonymous exposed their MO during a little dust up one of them had with Anonymous.
Killing people is too risky these days. Smearing them is way more effective, or so they THOUGHT.
I'm waiting for the smear campaign against Bernie to begin and actually have seen a few signs of the start of it, no doubt they are waiting for him to declare his candidacy to bring out their big smears/guns.
merrily
(45,251 posts)no doubt they are waiting for him to declare his candidacy to bring out their big smears/guns.
I guess he got close enough to that Sunday, and was impressive enough Sunday, to bring out the teeny weeny DU guns within minutes of MTP. Even for DU, that was record time to go from hero to be cheered to the guy with all the bus tire treads on his shirt.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)But if he's smart he'll follow Hillary's example and keep them guessing right up to the last minute, so they will have to 'keep their powder dry' for a while.
Knowing how smart he is, I'm sure he knows what to expect though. If we can see, he sure can.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)glinda
(14,807 posts)ReRe
(10,597 posts)... the last words out of Chuck Todd's mouth to Bernie on MTP? He said, and I quote "Stay safe on the trail in Iowa." I thought to myself "Now what the eff was that supposed to mean?" If you haven't seen the MTP footage, go to http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025534033
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)get the red out
(13,468 posts)Sigh, I don't want to have to think about that.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)Run, Bernie. Run.
pa28
(6,145 posts)Earth_First
(14,910 posts)MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)Well said, Autumn.
glinda
(14,807 posts)SnowCritter
(810 posts)But I'm not coming up with anything.
So, yeah, count me as a Bernie backer.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)RBR!
Rockyj
(538 posts)I will NEVER hold my nose and vote for Hillary!
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)CaliforniaPeggy
(149,762 posts)kentuck
(111,111 posts)That would divide the Party and make it more difficult for Hillary to win...
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)
Post removed
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)How exactly do you sleep at night?
Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #6)
MohRokTah This message was self-deleted by its author.
tazkcmo
(7,304 posts)was to watch Sen. Sanders. He will probably run as a Dem for practical reasons, according to him. As he put it, it's about having the infrastructure to run a 50 state strategy and running as an Independent would require him to build that infrastructure from scratch. Therein lies the advantage of running as a Democratic candidate.
Response to tazkcmo (Reply #17)
MohRokTah This message was self-deleted by its author.
tazkcmo
(7,304 posts)As I said, HE said he'll most likely run as a Dem. If he doesn't I'm sure he'll be OK with you thinking he's a piece of shit as he probably doesn't know you exist.
Response to tazkcmo (Reply #20)
MohRokTah This message was self-deleted by its author.
tazkcmo
(7,304 posts)He may be crushed!
Response to tazkcmo (Reply #24)
MohRokTah This message was self-deleted by its author.
And there he goes.
left is right
(1,665 posts)but we, as a nation, will be better off--even if all he is able to do is change the conversation. Which, I am sure he will do.
Volaris
(10,278 posts)It's kind of what differentiates him from a lot of the rest of Congress, who by comparison, are mostly worthless "Party before Country" types...
calimary
(81,565 posts)UNBELIEVABLE!!! john fucking mccain and lindsey fucking graham and bill fucking kristol on damn near EVERY FUCKING WEEK, and last Sunday was Bernie Sanders' FIRST TIME EVER on "Meet the Press."
As I said the first time I posted about this - "WELL, THERE'S YER PROBLEM, RIGHT THERE!"
I was shocked but not surprised. Bernie handled that weasle very well, I thought.
calimary
(81,565 posts)of course! I thought he was most patient with his little prick student.
tblue37
(65,524 posts)Response to calimary (Reply #95)
ReRe This message was self-deleted by its author.
tritsofme
(17,422 posts)Sleeping habits aside, what would you call a third party candidate from the left trying to throw the election to the Republicans, pray tell? He should take that option off the table immediately, then he can fill his role as a harmless vanity candidate.
Sen Sanders hasn't even declared although he is more upfront about it than any other unannounced candidate. He has said he'll probably run as a Dem as the infrastructure for a 50 state strategy is already in place and it's a big deal versus building that from scratch as he'd have to do as an Independent. The man is smart. At least give him that.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)tritsofme
(17,422 posts)that could only benefit the Republican.
If If If!
He said he'll probably run as a Dem! OK? I don't believe Sen Sanders is so ignorant to what a liberal 3rd party candidate of his stature would do to this country. Do you? Really? You give the man no credit for brains. He is not a self absorbed Ralph Nader. He has the respect of most everyone here on DU until he talks about running for President and then it's If If If. So, IF he runs as a Democrat, does he have your support based on his voting record?
tritsofme
(17,422 posts)And he wouldn't be a serious candidate. That doesn't mean he shouldn't disavow a third party run, especially when given the opportunity.
tazkcmo
(7,304 posts)He's not an idiot. But thank you, I appreciate your honest answer.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Elizabeth Warren runs, in which case, I will support the candidate that I decide based on the early campaigning has the best chance to win. I will not support Hillary.
I am an experienced, hard-working campaign volunteer. I can organize and do the footwork, either or, work with others or do it alone. I've done it, and I am a valuable supporter. Not just somebody who sits and chats on the internet.
Bernie Sanders already has some of the best informed and hardest working Democrats among his supporters. Same for Elizabeth Warren.
In contrast, Hillary has the big money and a lot of the support of the big cheeses in the Democratic Party.
whathehell
(29,102 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Point is, the script; and the script has been calling for no serious challenge to Hillary since 2012, if not 2008. I don't know what went on behind closed doors, but, in 2012, before Obama was even re-elected I was hearing on TV again and again "If she chooses to run, she'll clear the field."
When did you ever hear that about a primary before?
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)intentional sabotage of Bernie Sanders. Come on. This is a democracy. The more candidates the merrier. I very much prefer Bernie Sanders to Hillary Clinton. I will not support Hillary no matter who else runs.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)politics works in the real world, do you?
tritsofme
(17,422 posts)I literally laughed out loud. You think Sanders would have a serious shot at the nomination, and you are lecturing me about living in the "real world"?
He would have all the success of Dennis Kucinich. Welcome to the real world.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)opposition to the Vietnam War into the mainstream of political debate. Is it likely that Sen. Sanders would win the Democratic nomination? No, I am afraid he would be a longshot - not absolutely impossible - but a long shot. But what is likely is that he will alter the course of debate and a fair chance of winning a handful of primaries. What is likely is that a that a paradigm shift in the range of debate can be facilitated by his campaign and the the Democratic Party can be pushed back toward the center for the first time in a generation - regardless who becomes the nominee. I suspect I have been following politics quite seriously long before you were born. If you think this is the same as the Kucinich campaign - wake up and smell the coffee. If you don't know how much Sen. Sanders themes resonate with the vast majority of ordinary Americans - you don't know which way the wind is blowing and you are living in the world of TV talking heads - not the real world of ordinary working people. You are living in that fantasy land of where Madison Avenue sloganeering and personality contest count and policy has no importance.
tritsofme
(17,422 posts)He has zero name recognition and would be a non-factor in the primaries. People have to know who you are before you start changing paradigms.
I just don't see how he expands his support or even his message very far beyond the crowd that supports candidates like Kucinich.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)Last edited Wed Sep 17, 2014, 05:37 AM - Edit history (1)
to the Vietnam War the mainstream majority opinion. Unlike Gene McCarthy Bernie does not have to convince people to agree with him. The vast majority of Americans already do when it comes to his core message - more so than any other candidate within recent memory. And Bernie has a lot more name recognition than Gene McCarthy did in early 1968. Most importantly there is an army of hundreds of thousands of true believers waiting to spring into action. You will see.
MineralMan
(146,345 posts)similar occasion.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)navarth
(5,927 posts)sheshe2
(84,005 posts)I remember...oh never mind.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)sheshe2
(84,005 posts)another interesting post...
Piece.... oh never mind. That was allowed to stand.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)He's letting his mask slip a little.
Marr
(20,317 posts)I think they're just an asshole Third Wayer.
My personal favorite was from a few weeks ago, when they said they didn't care at all about civilian casualties in the pursuit of ISIS, and that we should just bomb indiscriminately.
They deleted it after they were called on it, naturally.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)I'm not saying that they are a troll, or that they are AllINeedIsCoffee. But, AllINeed had a nasty of habit of belligerence and ignorance followed by a frantic scrubbing of the record through self-deletes. AllINeed was banned as a repeat return troll.
Feral Child
(2,086 posts)didn't OMC use that tactic also?
That one told me in another thread that Democrats should continue to "alter their policies to appeal more to the right wing" to make up for disaffected progressives. Not even Third Wayer, I wouldn't say, more straight out conservative.
merrily
(45,251 posts)LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)From many posts back and forth, it is clear that poster simply hates progressives. Therefore, he has concocted an elaborate justification for the continued more to the right by the Third Wayers. Despite me showing him actual hard data that liberals were amongst the most loyal Democratic voters in 2008, 2010, and 2012, he likes make believe that our lack of votes forced the party to the right. Like many right wingers I've argued with, he is immune to actual data and evidence if it goes against his fantasy world.
merrily
(45,251 posts)of the Dem Party. So far, it appears we are supposed to believe them because someone who claims to be in the know posted them.
If someone loses an election it's never because no one is filling the needs of the constituents in their district and the constituents decided to give someone else a shot. It's because they were too far left.
Jimmy Carter didn't lose an election because of the hostages, Ted Koppel, lines at gas stations and he was somehow not inspiring Americans. Nooooo. It was because Kennedy opposed him in a primary. So, now, no one is ever again supposed to opposed an incumbent Dem in a primary. More and more reasons for the Party to be less and less small d democratic.
Based on what? Someone said Kennedy's challenge was the reason. That simple. Someone said it, so now it's gospel.
And all these unproven memes all "lead" to one conclusion. Rightward ho the Democratic Party.
Give me a damned break.
And, as you say, on the flip side, no matter how much evidence is posted, it's ignored next time, as though it never happened.
Transparent as my spotless living room window.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Probably sleeps during the daytime.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)All he needs is coffee.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)Puglover
(16,380 posts)mavericky then pretzely.
QC
(26,371 posts)Isn't it funny how selective our self-appointed zombie hunters are? They never say a word about the reincarnations of posters like HamdenRice, PretzelWarrior, and NJmaverick, but they hound other returnees night and day. Wonder why that is....
Rex
(65,616 posts)Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,509 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)That's the second time I've seen that in a thread - Mohroktah gets a comment hidden and turns around and deletes all of his other comments in the thread. Actually realizing he's overstepped, or simply worried that he'll rack up 5 hides in a row, all in one thread?
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)Cowardice.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Response to HERVEPA (Reply #7)
MohRokTah This message was self-deleted by its author.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,847 posts)Response to Gidney N Cloyd (Reply #14)
MohRokTah This message was self-deleted by its author.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Response to merrily (Reply #34)
MohRokTah This message was self-deleted by its author.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)the site to unsubscribe me.
Run, Bernie, RUN
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Bernie has totally earned my vote, 10 times over.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)SomeGuyInEagan
(1,515 posts)Republican-lite is still Republican, despite the label.
a la izquierda
(11,802 posts)dflprincess
(28,091 posts)tazkcmo
(7,304 posts)He once told someone to shut up at a town hall meeting so he is disqualified and unworthy to be President. If only he had claimed to be poor while his spouse was President and they lived in the White House...
merrily
(45,251 posts)tazkcmo
(7,304 posts)A DUer in another thread. A HCR supporter. Apparently lying is acceptable.
Wasn't aware that Frank said this. I support Sen. Sanders telling people to shut up when they try shouting over him while he's speaking.
merrily
(45,251 posts)that Sanders did that at a town meeting. In other words, she was basing her statement on a news story that quoted Barney Frank. She was not speaking from her own knowledge of the Vermont town meeting.
I believe the poster to whom you refer was pwnmom. I replied to her with the same video of Frank.
to thank you for the link. I remember that an applauded Frank then as I applaud Sanders now. Thanks again.
What I find sad is folks have only this or Sanders can't win. That's it. But Mrs. Clinton can go begging on Wall Street, talk about being "broke", claim she was dodging sniper fire, vote for war, serve on Walmart's board and still be held up as the most qualified Democratic candidate for President.
merrily
(45,251 posts)At the very least, he will change the discourse and hopefully move the meter needle left some.
https://www.credomobilize.com/petitions/encourage-senator-bernie-sanders-to-run-for-president-in-2016-as-a-democrat
tazkcmo
(7,304 posts)He'll be the only one out there talking about all of us, the 99%. I believe he'll win moderate Republicans better than Hillary Clinton can as the only person Republicans hate more than her is our current President. At least Sen. Sanders is an old white guy and Republicans loves them some old white men!
merrily
(45,251 posts)Obama spent about billion bucks in 2012, not counting soft money. And he was not even opposed in the primary. And he already had his campaign team and his fundraisers, etc. in place. Also, Obama, Bubba and a lot of the other party stars will endorse and campaign for Hillary, who has already been campaigning for 8 years. And I doubt Bernie is going to be seeing Wall Street money. Maybe not even Clooney and Spielberg money.
If people really do want Sanders, they are REALLY going to have to put their money and their volunteer efforts where their mouth is, not only their votes.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)... just signed up. Hope everyone who hasn't will do so when they come upon your link!
merrily
(45,251 posts)a link to the MTP video.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5534410
I've been trying to keep it kicked some.
I also sprinkled the link to the petition in several posts on this and will do the same on other threads. Please feel free to do the same if you wish. It's easy to grab. Just google Encourage Bernie to run
Thanks for signing!
Faryn Balyncd
(5,125 posts)Run, Bernie, run!
Evergreen Emerald
(13,071 posts)He is an independent. Kiss your own ass.
merrily
(45,251 posts)asset to the caucus and an ally. So much so, that Democrats do not run anyone against him for his senate seat. And, if he runs as a Dem, which he said Sunday he is considering, the divide the vote issue goes away. So, a group of progressive Democrats is sponsoring a petition to encourage him to run as a Democrat.
https://www.credomobilize.com/petitions/encourage-senator-bernie-sanders-to-run-for-president-in-2016-as-a-democrat
tazkcmo
(7,304 posts)But I understand. Anything that hinders The Annointed One is bad. Even if Sen. Sanders has said he probably will run as a Dem, something I'd also prefer so he can go head to head with The Annointed One without splitting our votes. I give Sen. Sanders credit for brains and doubt very seriously he'll run as an Independent.
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)TransitJohn
(6,932 posts)They supported the independent. There's politics, then there's politics, if you catch my drift. I'm all for Bernie, a Social Democrat.
merrily
(45,251 posts)before he got endorsed over Meek. Crist had switched from Republican only because he had lost the Republican primary.
So, basically, two moderate Republicans were endorsed over Democrats. But an Indie who has always caucused with Democrats and has been dubbed an asset to the Dem Senate Caucus. Horrors!
Says a lot.
Nay
(12,051 posts)it's a horror that an indie who caucuses with the Dems is a jerk for trying to run on a Dem ticket? Get out of here.
Never mind the fact that Bernie is more of a Democrat than the Third Way weasels we have been forced to vote for.
merrily
(45,251 posts)He can switch registrations and file the right documents until the damn cows come home. If they want to cut him at the knees with no chance in Hell, they can. He knows that and they know it. And if that is what they want to do, they will find a way to communicate that to him privately.
So, it's not as though DU is going to have a say in whether he runs as a Dem or not, anyway. This whole "controversy" is a joke.
Schema Thing
(10,283 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Recommended.
You. Finally. Thanks. Thing. With. Period.
K/R!
merrily
(45,251 posts)southerncrone
(5,506 posts)K&R
still_one
(92,492 posts)Nominee, who will you vote for in the general election
tazkcmo
(7,304 posts)He'll run as a Dem and I'll campaign for him.
still_one
(92,492 posts)ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)tazkcmo
(7,304 posts)That means nothing. He can't win. He's an Independent. He's, um, er, not Presidential! Yeah! And IF he runs as an Independent, he's a POS! I'm going to totally ignore the fact that he has said he'd rather run on the Democratic ticket because that takes away one of my points.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)And I predict the same will be said of Pres Sanders by the very same people when he can't produce the proper flavor of ice cream or the right color ponies to their liking.
merrily
(45,251 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)"Unfairly" is in the eye of the beholder. And if the criticism is so unfair, refuting it should be easy.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)and the inaction of the GOP controlled Congress is unfair by definition?
And further, if refuting unfair criticism was easy Faux Snooze wouldn't exist, Would it?
The simple fact is that there are some factions in this country that are heavily invested in tearing down the Democratic Party & their leaders, and have been striving to do so for DECADES - Obama is just the most recent target. And there's no way those factions could ever be mistaken for being liberal or progressive in any way, shape, or form.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I suspect where you and critics might differ is what is fairly laid at the door of Bushco and what is fairly laid at the door of Obamaco.
Refuting Fox News has nothing to do with this. We are talking poster to poster refutation, not a poster trying to refute a television network funded by a billionaire. One is a level playing field, one is not.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)You just weren't paying attention.
merrily
(45,251 posts)as refutation and exoneration, along with some refutations. So, we probably differ on what qualifies as a "refutation."
QC
(26,371 posts)That one got stale six years ago.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Lame and lamer.
QC
(26,371 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Okay, now you've done it. I am picturing Dimson as tinkerbell and laughing.
QC
(26,371 posts)didn't waste six years of his presidency trying to make the opposition love him.
merrily
(45,251 posts)IMO, that just might be another of them there untrue memes. "Democrats are always caving to Republicans" also may be.
Somehow, one way or the other Republicans are responsible in our eyes for 100% of what Republicans do or don't do that we don't like; and, one way or another, Republicans are also responsible in our eyes for 100% of what Democrats do or don't do that we don't like. I'm not buying it anymore.
The man said that his politics are those of a moderate Republican in the 1980s. Has anything he has done in the past six years as President been inconsistent with his own description of himself? If not, why would we assume that trying to make Republicans love him accounts for anything he's done or not done? How about he did what he did because of his very own political philosophy, as he himself described it to us with his own mouth?
QC
(26,371 posts)in areas where the Republicans had little to no power over him, like surrounding himself with people like Rahm and pursuing corporate education "reform" policies and taking economic advice from people like Austan Goolsbee and Jason Furhman.
merrily
(45,251 posts)was telling Democrats in the House and Senate that he wanted repeal of Glass-Steagall on his desk ASAP. And that had already hit the fan in the form of near global economic collapse well before Obama was elected. Probably helped him get elected, in fact.
A new President elected so strongly in both the popular and electoral votes does get some deference from even Republicans on his nominations. Unless, of course, they are tax cheats, like Daschle or violating other laws.
But, he peopled his administration with the same people as Clinton, plus the head of the NY Fed plus Republican Secretary of Defense Gates, plus re-appointing Bush's appointee, Bernanke. Geithner never registered as a Democrat either. Republican, until Clinton hired him, whereupon he registered Indie. The nation's blood and treasure, in the hands of Republicans during an economic collapse and war with two nations.
And we're obsessing over what a man who has espoused Democratic principles his whole life, one Schumer calls an asset, is registered as a Democrat or an Indie? Talk about form over substance!
QC
(26,371 posts)I guess that's what it comes down to for some.
merrily
(45,251 posts)here posted anything like that. Please.
QC
(26,371 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)And do whatever he wants-or more to the point, whatever YOU want?
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)And trite.
I know I shouldn't expect anything better
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)BTW, I adore Bernie. And I hope he does something to push the Democratic party left. But I don't know if that is the right way to do it. I worry about the SCOTUS nominations too much to gamble.
merrily
(45,251 posts)running as a Dem. A group of progressive Dems is sponsoring a petition to encourage him to do exactly that.
https://www.credomobilize.com/petitions/encourage-senator-bernie-sanders-to-run-for-president-in-2016-as-a-democrat
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)he could also, in theory, push the Dem nominee left and drop out before the GE.
merrily
(45,251 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)(That seems suggestive, but that was not my intent. I was just going for alliteration.)
tazkcmo
(7,304 posts)Iamthetruth
(487 posts)This country will not elect an open socialist on a national level. I like Sanders, he's honest and speaks his mind, that us rare and respectful but this country is not ready for him.
onecaliberal
(32,976 posts)Will give $ and time. Sick of voting status quo then wondering why things don't ever change.
840high
(17,196 posts)more than I can say for some Dems.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)A thousand times an actual Democrat than any of the empty suits that are now pretending they are. And that includes pantsuits.
Skittles
(153,261 posts)yes indeed
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)a shit who doesn't like it and the ones who don't can kiss my ass too.
Historic NY
(37,458 posts)thats even something he has said he has not thought about a ground game. Of course he'd have to register as a Democrat. I wonder if he is jockeying for a spot on the ticket. He doesn't drop the bomb in Hillary...
Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)I firmly hold He is the living embodiment of what a Democrat should be. The only reason for the I appearing after his name is the Third Way......cult, which has so influenced what we were.
If he runs as something other than a democrat, I honestly can't say right now what I'll do then.
The mid-term elections in Kansas right now; the one where the Democrat dropped off the ballot (or at least is trying to) to get the more preferable Indy candidate a real chance to take the senate seat; has been on my mind. Is this specific to this election only, or is this a harbinger of what we need to do to drive the republicans from the political scene? In Alaska we are splitting the ticket with an Indy candidate to win the gubernatorial race. We might be doing this in Maine soon (according to a Rachel Maddow report a few minutes ago).
Best I have to offer is never relent on the message that the last fifty years have undone real America. Never relent on undoing Reagan's message.
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)Inquiring minds want to know.
rurallib
(62,477 posts)New Orleans Strong
(212 posts)...say that a William Pitt entry is always erudite, hoped for, and leaves me joining California Peggy in wanting to call an amazing contributor "My Dear Will". Any objections --my dear Will?
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Not run away from it.
blondie58
(2,570 posts)I would so vote for him. 🌟
spanone
(135,920 posts)Veilex
(1,555 posts)City Lights
(25,171 posts)ReRe
(10,597 posts)You're damn right, Will. The nay-sayers need to tell us who, within the beltway, rises to his character. No one comes near that dear gentleman. I'm watching Ken Burn's The Roosevelts on PBS.
Sen Bernie Sanders reminds me of those Democrats of old.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)If he does run not run as a Democrat, will you vote for the Independent and thus doom America forever just to make a point, whatever that may be?
still_one
(92,492 posts)not for certain. I have heard him speak, and has not given a specific answer to that question.
Incidentally if he runs as an independent the vast majority of Democrats will vote for whoever is the Democratic nominee.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)the Independent Sanders to hand victory to the Republican clown nominee...like before.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)And it's so obvious to everyone, then wouldn't that suggest the Dem should drop out so the Repub doesn't win? Or would HRC simply want to lose to 'prove a point'?
ReRe
(10,597 posts)He's going to run as a Democrat. Bernie would never run as an Independent in the general election, setting up another possible mess like in the 2000 election. Hell, he hasn't even announced yet.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)The two-party system is a gross oversimplification, as this thread proves. I would love to have a president like Sanders, but what I would like even more is for us to become the sort of nation where someone like him could be elected.
We're running out of time to waste on neoliberal politics that fail to address urgent matters. I get the risk of splitting the left, but playing it safe is starting to look almost as bad as risking another Republican presidency.
Where each voter chooses to draw a line is less important than admitting that this conundrum exists and working to dismantle it.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Off to the ignore list.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)20score
(4,769 posts)I don't know if many will see the connection, but your support of Bernie Sanders transcends more than just all the issues he will be great at/in/for. It's also a shot in the war against reactionaries.
Reactionaries, the anchor on humanity that stops progress everywhere it rears its head. Wars, global warming, living wage, torture, racism, trade policies, over-population, progressive policies, privatization, war on drugs, green energy, ubiquitous spying, militarized police, hyper-partisanship, and political progress. They may be led by amoral, greedy bastards that direct people into doing the worst thing - almost every time - but the people they lead don't think past the talking points. They react without thought, hence they are reactionaries; and when they do get things right, it's purely accidental.
Bartlet
(172 posts)Dems used to be before they had to pander to the conservative christian right.
PoutrageFatigue
(416 posts)Demeter
(85,373 posts)The ground water has been so contaminated by DINOS and quick-change artists and con men and good ole boys and every other perversion under the sun, who knows what a Real Democrat is, any more?
And that dynasty thing....take the local Dingell dynasty, please! The key to "dynasty" is "nasty". The ultimate entitlement class.
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)and promises to be a better Obama. Ironic I know, but there isn't much room to run left of Obama -- what exactly would he base his campaign on? Legalizing marijuana? Good luck with that. And he and Warren have already positioned themselves to the right of Obama on the ISIS intervention. But he can't run right of Obama because HRC has long ago staked out that territory. That leaves running on Obama's record, which means getting Obama's impramitur, which means running as a Dem. Good luck to him.
radiclib
(1,811 posts)No room to the left of Obama? Are you kidding? There's room for several galaxies to the left of Obama without legalizing weed. Expanding SS, single payer, prosecuting bankers and polluters, actually protecting whistleblowers instead of persecuting them, reining in the NSA
should I go on? And exactly what did Bernie or Warren advocate with regard to ISIS? More bombs? Ground troops? Nukes?
Somehow I don't think Bernie expects Obama's endorsement.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)And the items on your wish list are commendable but as far as a national campaign either long past their expiration date (prosecuting bankers from a crash eight years earlier? Not a winner) or basically improvements on the Obama agenda -- single payer = improved ACA, continuing Obama's NSA reforms which have been substantial, etc. So he's going to have to join the team if he wants to win or even make a respectable showing.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)Go on, try it.
radiclib
(1,811 posts)But of course, we shouldn't even consider a presidential nominee who would ever propose any policies that would not be endorsed by Republican captives of the tea baggers. I can't imagine how this flawless logic escaped me.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,506 posts)against a donut said he will run as a Democrat and the Democratic Party desperately needs him, if this political party is to reclaim its soul.
Thanks for the thread, WilliamPitt.
LittleGirl
(8,292 posts)Thank you.
Kilgore
(1,733 posts)And I don't care if run as a D, or an I, or an XY or Z.
Tired of the bullshit, we need a stand up candidate who tells it like it is.
Kilgore
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Whatever Bernie is.....Independent or Democrat....he HAS MY VOTE, PERIOD!!!
Run, Bernie, Run!!
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)mountain grammy
(26,663 posts)Let the chips fall where they may, I think he'd make an outstanding president. If this happens in my lifetime, i swear I'll die a happy woman.
ColesCountyDem
(6,943 posts)mountain grammy
(26,663 posts)Autumn
(45,120 posts)phrase just cracks me up every time someone tosses it out there. .
mountain grammy
(26,663 posts)QC
(26,371 posts)Autumn
(45,120 posts)Seriously if I have to want a republican Prwesident, Reagan is the perfect one. Because like he's dead and I like that.
QC
(26,371 posts)or so I'm told.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)I know what a destructive little rats ass he and his lousy policies really were.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)Not in my opinion, at least. He switched from R to D a few years ago. Sadly, I don't think his values changed much with party membership.
In the flip side case of Bernie Sanders, I would hope his wouldn't either.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)even though his values didn't change, what is acceptable in the Democratic Party has changed to the point that they now welcome those right wing Republican views.
Nay
(12,051 posts)like in those old Westerns. To accept them in as if they have truly changed sides is naive, especially when you know that Pubs and the ultrareligious have been infiltrating school boards, etc., for 30 years. Why on earth would you think that a Pub was being honest about this? They'd have to go door to door stumping for Dem candidates for 5 years before I'd believe a word they say. But they are ushered into the Dem party like there is no problem?
Well, I have a problem with it because THIS IS WHY WE HAVE SO MANY CONSERVATIVE 'DEMS' IN THE PARTY. They aren't Dems. They're Republicans. And the fact that they seem so interchangeable to the Dem leadership is ominous.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)Either as atty general or governor, Our current Democratic Gov. has overseen 90% of all executions in MO. Capital punishment is not exclusive to republicans, but I think that kind of zealousness is less common among Dems. Aside from that, it has always been tough to hold Dem legislators together when it comes to votes on social issues.
So, it's not like he joined a party with a large majority of mainstream Dems.
JEB
(4,748 posts)He has my vote as the most sensible person in DC and for whatever office he chooses to seek. Give 'em hell Bernie. Keep telling it like it is.
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)Deal Bernie?
-at least for this election cycle-
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)And the party members will have a genuine choice as to what kind of candidate they want to nominate. It will be interesting to see how popular Sanders' policies are compared to those of the other candidates.
If he runs as an independent, OTOH, he will probably do the Democrat what Nader did to Gore.
OneAngryDemocrat
(2,060 posts)In 1964, a very young Hillary Rodham Clinton was one of the Goldwater Girls who campaigned for the Arizona Republican. She only became a Democrat later in the 1960s AFTER she attended the 1968 GOP convention.
Elizabeth Warren started life as a conservative who voted Republican because of the partys pro-business stance, and she didnt switch to the Democratic Party until the mid-1990s.
We can talk about 'circling the wagons' AFTER Bernie eats Hillary alive during the primary debates.
But ONLY after the debates.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)I remember when people were trying to say that Kendrick Meek supporters should submit to then Third Party candidate Charlie Crist, because to do otherwise would let Rubio in. I complained, and was told that this was an exception. Yeah, some exception, the result being that now, for governor, my choice is between someone who will make a bad governor, and someone who will make a Disaster.
Some damn exception.
elleng
(131,292 posts)In.addition.to.other.problems.with.his.policies,not.corporatist,not.third.way,Party.affiliation.and.lack.of.party.support,likely.main.reason.a.run.by.him.would.fail.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
treestar
(82,383 posts)the newest Messiah. What happened to Elizabeth Warren? He would still have to deal with Congress.
neverforget
(9,437 posts)Someone who speaks about what ails the middle class and poor and you label him the Messiah?
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)When you don't have to deal with an opposition party that hates you on a seething, personal level, and hates that you are the first person of color to be President (which for many of them, is one too many) and is willing-no, EAGER-to sabotage the country's economy and deliberately shut down the government to score political points against you.
Sorry, but I don't think Sanders is particularly impressive. It's easy to be principled and idealistic when you're not the one where all the blame and responsibility is assigned, and where all of the public's impossible expectations are projected onto you.
Oh, and you have to deal with the rest of the world, too. Good luck with that!
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)Stack your own principles and record against that, and let's see where we stand.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)neverforget
(9,437 posts)I'll vote for the Democrat, but I am sick and fucking tired of all the mealy mouthed, centrist bullshit we hear from Democrats in DC. If Sanders pulls the Democrats back to the Left, then more power to him.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Weak.
NealK
(1,893 posts)Oh the irony.
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)Thanks for this, Will.
Run, Bernie!
K&R
jwirr
(39,215 posts)even write him in.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)He might have impact in few deep blue liberal states but thats about it. Good to have his voice out there but he has no chance to be a significant candidate... a bit like kuchinich.
kath
(10,565 posts)Clintons. Or most of the so-called "Democrats" in the House and the Senate.
Right on, Will. Great post.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)"No True Democrat."
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)And they said Obama supporters are the ones who care more about personality than policy.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)And they're right.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Obama supporters don't care what the policy is, if Obama supports it so do they, they'll come up with a justification for anything.
Sanders isn't going to win anything based on charisma. His supporters are excited about his policies, not pretty speeches.
Indepatriot
(1,253 posts)Since "Bubba The Triangulator" a Democrat who's down for the Middle Class has been a rare bird. Bernie's agenda could win with the people, but the MSM will not allow that to happen. I hope to hell he runs!
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Run Sen Sanders Run.
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)And DU is going to have to revisit and revise its policy of not allowing advocacy for non-Dems where there is an official DEM nominee.... in the event that Sen Sanders runs as an independent.
Looks as though 75% of the board will vote for him.... even as independent. (Including me, BTW).
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)We have too many so called champions of the people that have no fire and they are cozy with the people who are stripping away our rights and ensuring that we all end up as wage slaves.
Strat54
(58 posts)I will be voting either for him or Joe Biden in the primary.
Veganhealedme
(137 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)gwheezie
(3,580 posts)I am a Hillary supporter. I'm not going to play the stupid Hillary vs Obama game of 08 if someone else challenges her. If Bernie can get a campaign going he has just as much validity to run as anyone else. I hope if he runs it's as a dem but it's up to him. If Hillary wants to be president she will have to make her case to the American people no matter who else is in the race.
If Bernie runs as a dem and wins the nomination I will vote for him.
PBass
(1,537 posts)Run, Bernie. Run.
You can almost feel the excitement.
Marr
(20,317 posts)Why isn't he a Democrat? Could it possibly be because the party has been dragged rightward and rightward by corporate stooges?
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)If you can't win the voters over to due to your lame agenda, smear the other guy with the "loser" label.
Except this time, we already have a one-time primary loser in Hillary. Going to be difficult to tiptoe around that little fact.
democrank
(11,112 posts)especially from those Democrats here who have tossed aside the old meaning of Democrat and inserted their new, 2014 version. It reminds me of how war was peace under George W. Bush.
Bernie Sanders has always stood with workers and veterans. Always. He doesn`t say one thing and do another. His actions back up his words.
For those who chatter about his "far left ways"....like economic justice and real help for our veterans, please come up here to Vermont and see how many pickup trucks have both an NRA sticker and a Bernie sticker. To say Bernie has a narrow appeal is laughable.
If nothing else, Bernie will make the presidential debates worth listening to because voters will have the opportunity to hear a candidate who genuinely is for the people.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Last edited Tue Sep 16, 2014, 06:49 AM - Edit history (1)
I see it has them.
Yay, Bernie!
Thank you, WilliamPitt. [url=http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons.php][img][/img][/url]
snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)I will never vote for Hillary the warmonger. Sanders voted against the illegal war.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)I mean it.
riqster
(13,986 posts)If Bernie runs as an independent, he will lose, Dems will lose, and Repubs will win. That is mathematics.
On the positions, you are correct. When it comes to electoral outcomes, not so much.
Run AS A DEM, Bernie, run!
Triana
(22,666 posts)..what most of our so-called "Dems" have long since left behind in favor of "middle way" bullshit.
Progressive dog
(6,925 posts)I would probably vote for him.
It's nice that Bernie doesn't see either the President or Hillary as some conservative third way Democrats that he has to attack.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)be the right man at the right time, another FDR!
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)I wonder if it is possible to run a poll on DU that simply asks the question;
Who best represents your understanding of a tried and true Democrat?
a. Hillary Clinton
b. Bernie Sanders
Or would such a poll violate the TOS?
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Frankly, I prefer defending his principles rather than Hilary's past gaffes, inaccuracies about her beliefs, record, sucking up to Wall Street, warmongering, and all the other "baggage" she carries.
I will back Sanders as well. He's the best we have, and I see no reason to back an inferior candidate.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Believes in what makes a Democrat more than most who call themselves "Democrats" do these days.
Who wanted to audit the Bailout of 2008? At. First. Only. Bernie. Sanders.
freebrew
(1,917 posts)Democrat by choice and support. Good post and says exactly how I feel as well.
He's on our side.
Run, Bernie. Run.
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)whats a Democrat? Democrats and Republican parties are long dead
we have the Progressive Party and the Conservative party. I would think Bernie is part of the progressive party..
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)he has my undying support and loyalty.
He's a better Democrat than 90%+ of the officeholders who happen to put a D after their names.
He is, as the late and much missed Paul Wellstone famously said, from the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party.
Bernie!
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)Good to see there are still some Democrats left who haven't forgotten who their party is supposed to represent.
leftstreet
(36,118 posts)dsharp88
(487 posts)If he runs as an Ind., doesn't he take away votes in the general from the Democratic candidate?
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Which is what Nader did.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)he will run as a Democrat.
Fainting couches are in the storage area. Beware the mothballs.
Heidi
(58,237 posts)you couldn't frame that great OP (with which I otherwise agree) without, "Kiss every square inch of my ass"?
Come on, Will. Such invective makes the message about you. Is that really what you want?
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)I am required to tame my invective, channel it, and craft it within the boundaries of acceptable dialog; hence, "Kiss every square inch of my ass" becomes "The reality of this argument beggars reason," or something of the like.
This, however, is not my published work. It is a forum I have been glad to call home for almost fourteen years.
You will pardon me if I let my hair down and take my shoes off here.
If you don't, bear in mind that I'm going to do it anyway.
Coping mechanisms are available in the lobby.
Heidi
(58,237 posts)because you're one of the handful of remaining DUers who I truly admire and could say that I "love."
My coping mechanisms are fine, Will. If I thought for one second you, at this moment, sincerely cared about my "coping mechanisms," I'd thank you for the advice.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)and hope they are well-greased. They seem to be, which is why I was surprised by your reply to an OP of mine that really isn't much different than everything else I've posted here.
And P.S., I love you too, old friend.
Heidi
(58,237 posts)will always try to help us be better and do better. I count on you to do that for me (as you always have) and I hope you will insist that we/I do that for you. Love to you, Will, and your beautiful-in-all ways two ladies.
Run, Bernie, RUN!
Zorra
(27,670 posts)The most honorable awesome Senator from the Peoples Republic of Vermont rocks!
DinahMoeHum
(21,825 posts)The Howard Dean/Elizabeth Warren version, that is.
BECAUSE I WILL FUCKING NOT STOMACH ANOTHER 3RD PARTY RALPH NADER SIPHONING VOTES FROM US GOOD GUYS TO RESULT IN ANOTHER FUCKING REPUBLICAN FASCIST PIG IN THE WHITE HOUSE
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)You has it.
fbc
(1,668 posts)ms liberty
(8,620 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)I don't think i've ever noticed half that.
LordGlenconner
(1,348 posts)I eagerly await the next change in the direction of the wind.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Maybe you wish the Left would just sit down, shut up and support the status quo, Goldman-Sachs' candidate.
LordGlenconner
(1,348 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)a message board for politically liberal posters. I don't mind if you are willing to argue you positions. But it seems you are only here to disparage the Left and I don't have time to waste on you.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)Damn straight he's a REAL Democrat. An old school Democrat, if you will. None of this "progressive" crap. Not one of the neo-liberals who just want to sing Kumbaya, and make sure everyone is happy, but one who is willing to put up a fight, and get his hands dirty. If he makes some enemies, so be it.
I have seen my own town taken over by these lily-livered "progressives." They have made statements in their meetings that they just don't want to fight, because, "people get turned off by it." Hell, you are supposed to be going against your opposition, who will do anything to get their way, and you are worried about pissing a few people off? Give me a break.
Bernie is originally from Brooklyn, so I am confident that he knows how this goes. You sometimes have to fight for what you want, or need, or is in the best interests of everyone, and if you lose some friends, that's the way the ball bounces. If you don't make waves, nothing gets done.
I would vote for Bernie in a New York nanosecond!
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)I urge a continuation of the tactic of pointedly reminding disenchanted voters "But Senator Sanders isn't a Democrat!".
TBF
(32,118 posts)I'd vote for him in a heartbeat. Dem or not.
lark
(23,182 posts)He has the best ideas and acts in the best interests of the working class. I do think he should run as a Democrat, however, so as not to split the vote and end up with Repug clown du jour for president.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)PADemD
(4,482 posts)Thespian2
(2,741 posts)If your only definition of "Democrat" features the CORPORATE couple Bill and Hillary, then Bernie is certainly not a Democrat. He is simply the best hope that Americans have for a future.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Imagine, a non-fake!
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)TheNutcracker
(2,104 posts)marble falls
(57,427 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)factually he is not a Democrat
Indepatriot
(1,253 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)Babel_17
(5,400 posts)There is a great spirit, and some great talk, in this one.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)On Tue Sep 16, 2014, 09:00 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
Killing Today's Meme, Chapter the Infinity: "Sanders = Nader"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025545821
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
My way or the highway? Either like my candidate or kiss my ass? I am sick of this clown's belligerent posts--they aren't passionate, they are rude and nasty and sound like they are coming from a place where the writer isn't thinking straight--this kind of shit is straight out of "used car salesman" territory and he needs to just cut the crap. This blowhard posts intemperately and rudely, and his opinion is just that--an opinion. He's doing a great job of making Clinton Democrats--and we ARE Democrats and we don't deserve to be treated like fish bait--feel VERY UNWELCOME here. This guy is touting a candidate who is NOT (yet) running as a Democrat, and teling those of us planning on voting for a Democrat that we're assholes if we don't agree with him? --Instead of telling people to kiss his ass, or calling people who don't agree with his rude and blowhardy opinions "chickenshits, " he needs to learn to speak civilly and stop with the Kiss My Ass hyperbole. It's a big tent, Will--we're ADULTS here--enough with the childish and bullying tone. It makes you sound UNHINGED.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Sep 16, 2014, 09:12 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Even though I don't enjoy WillPitt's posts, he doesn't cross the line here. He's not calling anyone an asshole, and he's not referring to any DUers as chickenshits.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Nothing wrong with the post at all.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: uh-buoy
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Pitt's OP is fine. He's saying that a potential presidential candidate, who will run as a Democrat, should be given due consideration. What's the problem: some mildly abrasive language? Has the alerter only just arrived on the internet? It would take a lot more to be considered rude or over the top.
Also worth noting, Pitt's OP does not mention Clinton or Clinton Democrats by name. He challenges us to 'fish or cut bait' but does not actually accuse anyone of BEING chum, squid, or other fetid lures...
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: William Pitt is indeed a bit of a ridiculous self-important blowhard, but I don't think this needs to be hidden. Given that his prognostications frequently prove to be embarrassingly wrong, better to leave them up for posterity.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: What a pathetic alert.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)glad to see it gets the same results, NO HIDE! hahaha
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)I agree with this post. So very true.
K and R