Pot correlated with making teens less likely to graduate college/HS, more likely to kill selves.

[linuxman]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/09/study-teens-who-smoke-weed-daily-are-60-less-likely-to-complete-high-school-than-those-who-never-use/?tid=rssfeed

Teenagers who smoke marijuana daily are over 60 percent less likely to complete high school than those who never use. They're also 60 percent less likely to graduate college and seven times more likely to attempt suicide. Those are the startling conclusions of a new study of adolescent cannabis use out today in The Lancet Psychiatry, a British journal of health research.

[msongs]

1. all the pot smokers I knew graduated high school nt

[linuxman]

6. Cool.

< Half those I knew did.

Hooray for anecdotes.

[snooper2]

16. a couple I hung out with did...some weren't very bright to begin with

I'm the exception of course

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

54. I don't know from all, but

of the ones I knew who went to my high school, I think they all went on to get doctorates. YMMV.

Of course, I also don't think I knew anyone who actually 'smoked daily'. That sounds like an expensive habit.

[Vincardog]

2. Are the 60% who don't complete HS the Same 60% who don't graduate from College?

[LordGlenconner]

3. "This study was brought to you by the good folks at Anheiser Busch and Philip Morris"

[Go Vols]

48. Yep

[RKP5637]

53. No doubt! n/t

[MADem]

4. I know an awful lot of septuagenarian potheads with PhDs...so I have to wonder

if these "kids" were unusually persistent or maybe the study is a bit ... sketchy?

They did nail this bit down--though it wasn't legal back in the sixties, either, was it?

In other words, many of the problems associated with teen cannabis use are likely a function of the drug's illegal status.

[Jackpine Radical]

28. As a PhD who--uh--knows some users in my peer group--ahem--

…I have nothing further to say.

[MADem]

33. What it is!!! nt

[Tsiyu]

39. What it ever was.

[GummyBearz]

47. I dont know what septuagenarian means...

But I do know a few people who were driven to being pot heads during their phds. and a few who were driven to drinking excessively (i'm one of those)... I say phds should be outlawed! :p

[MADem]

49. Ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!

Fair point!

[PeaceNikki]

5. Correlation/causation, etc

[linuxman]

7. Well..

That's why I titled it the way I did.

[PeaceNikki]

11. I'd like to know the outcome of teens who drink alcohol daily.

I bet they are much worse off.

[GoCubsGo]

8. I'm guessing that if they feel the need to get high every day...

...that they have other more serious problems beyond the pot smoking. And, that's what's keeping them from graduating or going onto college, not the pot smoking.

[linuxman]

14. I'd agree with that.

I'd get shithouse drunk every once in a great while in college. It's all about moderation though. If I did that every weekend, I wouldn't have graduated Summa Cum Laude. I knew some folks that smoked every so often. I can't remember the names of the drunks and potheads I shared dorms with, as most were gone by the first Christmas.

[elehhhhna]

44. most young addicts (teens) are dual-diagnosis patients

and the drinkers are generally way more fucked than the pot-only people

[GoCubsGo]

46. Yup. Also...

They could be getting high for other reasons, as well, such as trying to escape family problems, bullying, depression or other psychological issues... Those are often the reasons people start drinking heavily, or taking other drugs, too.

[RKP5637]

55. Yep! n/t

[immoderate]

9. Does this mean that dumb kids smoke more pot?

---imm

[jberryhill]

10. People who decide to engage in an illegal activity more likely to have other problems

What these kinds of reports fail to take into account is that smoking pot is an activity which is illegal in the first place.

There is no question that the "population of people who smoke pot" is inclusive of the "population of people willing to engage in an illegal activity".

That has nothing, actually, to do with what is the activity in question.

In other words, let's say that you have a group of people in which the incidence of some form of social pathology is 10%.

You then say, "Okay, I want everyone who has jaywalked in the last month to sit on the left of the room, and everyone who has not to sit on the right of the room."

It is guaranteed that among the groups now sitting on the left of the room, the incidence of whatever social pathology you want to name, is now going to be significantly greater than 10%.

Why? Because jaywalking is illegal. No, you are not Charles Manson if you jaywalk, but the "group of people who jaywalk" is going to more likely include the raging sociopaths than not.

It's an unsurprising result.

[obxhead]

12. Legalize it s it can be controlled.

A large majority of HS kids would also tell you its much easier to get an ounce than it is a six pack.

Legalization will help keep it out of HS.

[justabob]

19. there have been reports saying that

Liquor/beer and cigarettes are a whole lot harder to get than street drugs and prescription meds. I do not have a link handy, but it's been posted here more than once.

[obxhead]

22. I speak from personal experience.

Its been a long time since HS, but I understand its even easier to find drugs now than it was 20 years ago there.

[justabob]

23. I know, same here

My son is now a senior at the same school I attended, and from what he says, not much has changed since the 80s. LOL. Lots of coke, X, and the rest. (It is a school in a wealthy neighborhood) The only change from then and now is the prescription meds and the legal pseudo shit people buy on line. No handy link for that info either.

[hifiguy]

13. I smoked regularly for a couple of decades

and during that time decided to go to college even though I dropped out of high school, graduated from college with every honor I could win and made it all the way through an Ivy League law school, where I did very nicely. I did not smoke on school nights in college or law school, though, but I fired up every Friday and Saturday night.

[Fearless]

15. But which cases the other?

Hmm....

[hunter]

17. This study was from Australia and New Zealand, but I imagine some of the correlations are similar...

"Moreover, Palamar's research shows that because of marijuana's legal status, teen cannabis users are much more likely to get into trouble with the police than teen alcohol users. And in many cases, if you have a drug conviction on your record, you become ineligible for college aid. "If you get caught with drugs, you're not able to go to college," he told me."

I don't think kids should be drinking or using cannabis, but any difference in outcomes between the two are almost certainly related to legal and social complications.

[Warren Stupidity]

35. "If you get caught with drugs, you're not able to go to college" - damage by design.

So the fucking drug warriors can then point to the stats they have created and say "see! we TOLD you!".

Fuck all of them. Legalize it retroactively to 1972. Everyone damaged by Nixon's and Carter's and Reagan's and Bush's and Clinton's and Bush's and Obama's war on drugs should be compensated.

[Tsiyu]

40. "We're going to chop your foot off for stepping out of line."

"And then we'll make up a study that says your stepping out of line is the reason you'll never walk right again."

[bemildred]

18. So being a depressed loser makes you more likely to smoke dope. Huh. nt

[Ex Lurker]

20. Well no shit, anything in excess is bad for you

that doesn't mean using it should be a criminal act.

[Quantess]

21. I always felt tired and sad and anxious

after the initial rush. I can see that it can cause depression in some people. I can't stand weed.

[MindPilot]

41. That's how I feel *before* I smoke.

To each his own I guess.

[JI7]

24. i'm guessing it's probably the other way around, those less likely to graduate or have suicidal

thoughts may be more likely to use marijuana or other drugs .

it's other things going on in their life which is making them not do well . those are the things we need to look for.

whether it's health related such as depression, abuse, their environment etc.

[J_J_]

26. exactly- they were self medicating which led them to use it in the first place

it is much safer than most antidepressants on the market.

Alcohol is a depressant.

[Jackpine Radical]

30. I've never* met a true ADHD type who didn't like pot.

And who didn't do better with than without the means of self-medication.

*OK, seldom.

[politicat]

42. Hi, allow me to introduce myself and Spouse.

Both ADD (spouse is ADD, passive variant; I'm ADD, cyclical between passive and active).

I'm deathly allergic to the plant -- got exposed in childhood, immune system goes to Defcon gazillion when I touch hemp fabric, paper, oil. Inhaling it would probably put me into immediate anaphylaxis. I have an epi-pen now to, with luck, give me 15 minutes to get to an ER for IV antihistamines and steroids. (Thank you, CO legalization. I couldn't get a pen before legalization because the logic ran that since it was illegal, I would never encounter it. This is why I am 100% pro-legalization.) Even if I wanted to play Russian roulette, I'm pretty sure my issue is not with my cannabinoid receptors, but with my norepinephrine or acetylcholine receptors.

Spouse had parents who enjoyed. Spouse never partook on zir own, but one of the parents enjoyed going out and hot boxing with spouse in car, so spouse probably got plenty. Also, Spouse's elder sib and sib's spouse. And Spouse's friends. Spouse's exposures left zir paranoid, angry, frustrated and irritable, which tracks to perfectly functional cannabinoid receptors getting overloaded.

Not that cannabinoid receptors tracks well to ADD well anyway. They're mood and memory regulators (with a dose of gut regulation and pain perception, but lower on the pole than ghrelin, leptin and subP, respectively); ADD is arousal, cognitive control, concentration, learning and proprioception (noradrenaline, acetylcholine, histamine). Cannabinoids might short circuit GABA temporarily, but so do a lot of things.

ADD has a lot of moving parts, most of which are invisible. I'm perfectly pleased if some people find pot works for them, but don't assume it's a panacea. There's no such thing.

My bet, as a professional, is that the pot in the above study is the result of whatever internal or external factors are driving the despair, apathy and anhedonia. It's self-medication, not causative.

[J_J_]

25. coders/techies are a bunch of potheads

all of this wonderful technology people use to complain about potheads with, was created by potheads.

It inspires creativity and is motivating- quite the opposite of alcohol

[arcane1]

27. So kids who are prone to contemplate suicide are 60% more likely to try pot?

Fun With Correlations!

I'm sure the kids who drink alcohol do great!

[Doctor_J]

29. As a pro-pot person, I DO think there should be an age for it

[Jackpine Radical]

31. And I agree.

That's an argument for legalization & control. It's harder for a kid to get alcohol than pot in most places.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

32. a HS teen who smokes pot everyday has a problem.

so yes, i believe these stats are likely true. my guess is pot is not the mediating variable, just an outcome variable for what the actual problem is

[zappaman]

34. I have been smoking since the end of my college days.

I don't think anyone should be smoking it before the age of 18 at least.
And most of the kids I knew who smoked and dropped out really were probably gonna drop out anyway.

[Ruby the Liberal]

36. There are studies out that talk about damage to the brain

The brain doesn't fully "form" (for lack of a better word) until age 24-25.

Why I am for full legalization, but 21 and over only. I am swayed by the "old enough to die for your country" argument of 18 and up, but the potential damage simply isn't worth opening that floodgate.

[Rex]

37. Don't Fear the Reefer!

[joeybee12]

38. If a kid is drinking daily, then I'm sure there's a similar problem...

Pot should be legal, but if kids are smoking daily, then I assume there is no adequate parental supervision.

[krispos42]

43. Well, it's hard to complete high school or attend college when you're in prison for a few years.

And maybe a prison record and resulting lack of education keeps people from moving ahead in life, resulting in depression and suicide attempts.

[NightWatcher]

45. How about "Suicidal dropouts also smoke a lot of pot"?

I think this is more correlation than causation.

[Trillo]

50. Going to High School is correlated to a lot of negative outcomes.

http://www.academia.edu/5045803/Associations_among_bullying_cyberbullying_and_suicide_in_high_school_students

No drugs are necessary in that population for suicide to occur, all it takes is other mean kids. Don't be gay! Suicide rate goes way up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_suicide_in_the_United_States

http://learninfreedom.org/suicide.html

The maximum age of compulsory school attendance is now lower in Japan than in the United States. (The compulsory school attendance age range was longer in Japan than in the United States during the prewar years, the years when the Japanese youth suicide rate was higher than that in the United States.)

It appears from looking at all of this briefly, that when you force young people to go to school, a ripple of negative psychological effects occurs.

Edited to add: It's probably a source of some intrigue that a system which rewards a very small percentage of the compulsory school population with great academic achievement in their later years, that those folks would have difficulty understanding that others kill themselves in the same pressure cooker system. I'm wondering if we're seeing "A tyranny of the minority."

[RKP5637]

51. Funny! I graduated college with a 3.8 average and nearly a 4.0 in post graduate work.

... guess they missed me in the study! Suicide ... no wonder, the crap many teens go through today.
PS: ... but I did not smoke everyday. Weekends, yes.

[tazkcmo]

52. lol

I guess they grow out of it. Been smoking pot since I was 11, 51 now and managed to graduate HS and not be dead by my own hand. Oh, and not get fat from all the Cheeto's and doughnuts!

[unblock]

56. i'd bet you could find a far stronger correlation for alcohol rather than pot.

but, there's no war on booze, so by all means, let's focus on pot instead.

[Eleanors38]

57. Pot linked to cunnilingus. Never buy the stuff.