God damn it! BREAKING MSNBC: Reports that Sotloff has been beheaded by ISIS

[ChisolmTrailDem]

Details emerging...

[philosslayer]

1. This is unfortunate

N/t

[Tuesday Afternoon]

19. you win for understatement of the year.

[Boom Sound 416]

140. +.000001

[HERVEPA]

27. Are you nuts? They are crazy.

[hrmjustin]

37. They kill people who don't believe as they do.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

129. And it is important to note that this includes fellow practitioners of Islam

Not just Christians.

Damned if I get their motivation. This will neither result in us dropping fewer bombs nor providing fewer weapons and advisors to their enemies.

[hrmjustin]

130. Absolutely!

[yeoman6987]

42. Really?

[get the red out]

45. I'm sure you just forgot your sarcasm thingie

I hope.

[Rhinodawg]

53. yes...philosslayer has a different take than I do.

[Aerows]

107. Flossy from HP

Different take.

[840high]

61. What????

[Scootaloo]

74. Nice one. You'd think none of the responses had ever read your posts before

[Rhinodawg]

79. I figured you more than anyone would appreciate it.

thx

[Scootaloo]

83. I'm not sure "appreciate" is the right word, there

[HERVEPA]

104. Not everyone keeps track of everyone else on here.

[Scootaloo]

106. Some people are extra-memorable, though.

[maxrandb]

78. Maybe we should have left Sadam alone

But no, fucking Bush and the wingnuts had watched too many Steven Segal movies.

Bush, Dick, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and the entire cast of Faux News and AM Hate Radio ought to be given some fucking flowers and be dropped off in Mosul!

[SammyWinstonJack]

134. ...

[Live and Learn]

154. +1 nt

[Sheepshank]

98. assuming you were being sarcastic...

were you poking fun at the LW penchant for trying peaceful tactics first?

And if you were poking fun at LW penchant for trying to make peace, are you so filled with sarcasm and hatred that you don't realize that the Left actually has an understanding when someone cannopt be negotiated with?

I'm thinking you are on the wrong BB

[Rhinodawg]

124. I think you are taking this waaaaay to serious.

.

[Fla Dem]

110. That was sarcasm right? Right? nt

[Rhinodawg]

122. yes..it was directed at the person i was reponding to.

[DustyJoe]

123. cannot do it

Number one I don't want to coexist or walk in the shoes of animals that kill humans for pure pleasure.
Taking 1,500 men from a prison and mass executing 600 of them because they are a different muslim
religion than the terrorists for one ... Same religion and beliefs just a different sect ...
.
http://www.hngn.com/articles/40208/20140825/isis-raids-iraqi-prisons-shoots-and-kills-shiite-prisoners.htm
.
or slowly sawing off a persons head for video/political gain as the two journalists.
.
These are the type of people that should be rewarded with carpet bombing regardless what shoes they wear because they are Animals, not human.

[Rhinodawg]

125. Joe... it was sarcasm.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

155. Your slip is showing. n/m

[Kaleva]

144. Welcome to DU 1st Officer Spock!

[BlueCaliDem]

2. I just heard Krystal Ball report it on MSNBC.

Very sad and tragic for the family.

[spanone]

3. sadly these two despicable deaths will probably make bipartisan calls to invade someone

[B Calm]

8. That's what worries me. The last thing we need!

[G_j]

22. unfortunately, yes

[mindwalker_i]

32. Yeah, heads are going to roll over this

Can't we just stay out of the place? The more we do, the more screwed up it's going to get. And it really started after WW2 when we carved up the middle east to suit our own needs, without respect to the people who were there.

[geek tragedy]

39. Worst pun of the day. nt

[mindwalker_i]

87. Yeah, sorry about that

[Tansy_Gold]

86. The carving up of the middle east

Was done after WW1.

Ethnic and political tensions festered for 30+ years, and were exacerbated by the British withdrawal from the Palestinian Mandate (created in 1917) and partitioning into what became Israel and Jordan in 1947/48.

[mindwalker_i]

88. Really? I don't know much of the details

I thought the ME was carved up after WWII, basically to for oil. Did it happen after WW1, or partly after each war?

[Scootaloo]

97. After WW1

with the defeat - and subsequent dissolution - of the ottoman empire. France and great Britain seized territory and claimed spheres of influence, according to the Sykes-Picot agreement; great britain took mesopotamia and Palestine / transjordan, and retained its holdings and influence in the Arabian peninsula and Egypt, while France took Greater Syria. There were also efforts to carve up the Anatolian peninsula between Greece, Russia, and Georgia, but a second war between Turkey and the Triple Entente there tuned that around pretty quickly.

France would eventually calve Lebanon off of Syria in order to create a Catholic christian state.. .but hte actual demographics didn't hold up too well for that plan, so they invented this weird demographics-based political system that... pretty much guarantees the state dissolves into civil war every time someone talks about actually following it (Lebanon hasn't conducted a census since 1933, because of this very issue.)

Britain, of course, invented Iraq, except for the part it called Kuwait instead, did some chopping and consolidating among the Emirates on the coastlines, and, very famously, implemented their oh-so-successful and bloodless Indian partition plan idea in Palestine, which has worked out so well for everyone.

and the cherry on top? The only reason the ottomans lost these territories is because of British-backed Arab revolts, with the promise of Arab state sovereignity, promised by the famed T.E. Lawrence. so that was a kind of reminder that the franj really hadn't changed policy much since the 11th century.

[former9thward]

102. The present day countries of Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan

were all drawn up by the British and French following WW I. The drew borders without regard to regional tribes or any other common interest. They just drew the borders to serve their own colonial interests after the War.




A goes to France and B goes to Britain.


A good article about all this by the BBC is here: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-25299553

[mindwalker_i]

172. Thank you both for the information

It gives some details as to why everything's AFU. The feeling that I had, that our intervention could only fuck it up worse, is stronger.

[lpbk2713]

4. Drone traffic headed their way.

They may not know it but they just cancelled their own life insurance policy.

[Cleita]

5. Oh hell! How sickening.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

7. Horrifyingly sickening, Cleita. We need to do something about it. nt

[Cleita]

16. I'm wondering why they are poking the bear because it seems they are?

They want us to engage them in war. Will it give them an excuse to retaliate? More ominously, do they have nukes to use on us that is making them so bold? I hope our intelligence has the goods on them or did all our good intelligence go down the drain when Valerie Plame got outted by Dick Cheney.

[woodsprite]

23. They're probably getting paid by Cheney to 'poke the bear'. n/t

[Adsos Letter]

60. I think they see US ground forces as a recruiting tool

A rallying cry for like minded jihadi's to rally against us, and help them secure their caliphate.

I don't think we will avoid another round of war in the Mideast.

[Cleita]

64. I agree. I don't think we can avoid it.

[RKP5637]

94. I've heard it mentioned a number of times that is probably their plan. I'm afraid this will

ratchet into another round. I don't think the end result will be betterment.

[Ex Lurker]

162. As mentioned by someone on MSNBC tonight, they have a huge structural problem

in trying to rule anything: They're so evil and demented that within a few weeks, everyone hates them Even the Nazis had local collaborators. ISIS will have no collaborators. and you can't govern like that for long. The way to defeat an insurgency is by indigenous forces who are motivated to resist. There will be no shortage of people willing to sign on, because it can't get any worse, and they have nothing to lose by doing so.

[phil89]

177. So further entanglement in the Middle East

Is the solution? Why are we taking the bait?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

179. Did I say "something" has to be boots on the ground? nt

[nitpicker]

6. BBC also reporting this

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29038217

[ChisolmTrailDem]

9. Calls for "taking the gloves off" already (Ayman Moyheldeen, MSNBC)... nt

[bananas]

126. CNN: ISIS video shows beheading of American journalist Steven Sotloff

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/02/world/meast/isis-american-journalist-sotloff/index.html

ISIS video shows beheading of American journalist Steven Sotloff
By Josh Levs and Ashley Fantz, CNN
updated 3:46 PM EDT, Tue September 2, 2014

<snip>

[Rhinodawg]

10. Since I cant figure out whats allowed and what isnt..

I want to just blow the fuck out of these subhuman thugs

(http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014874797#post10)

[Electric Monk]

43. Then you have more in common with them than I do with either of you. nt

[get the red out]

47. I agree

[RandiFan1290]

49. Enlist

Tough guy

[Rhinodawg]

77. Thank you.

I will send your thoughts and best wishes to DisgustipatedinCA.

[RandiFan1290]

81. Wash off the Cheetos dust and get to work!

[Peacetrain]

11. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Insanity.. just plain and simple insanity

[Generic Other]

12. Why don't we ever play hardball with them?

During WW2, the US government considered several ways of dropping nukes. One was totally psychological. They considered nuking Mt. Fuji. No real deaths would have occurred but a strong message would be sent to a nation that revered Fuji.

What does ISIS revere? Deliver an ultimatum. Follow through.

I am a pacifist by nature, but this sort of shit is like chess. Those shits need to be checkmated by whatever means necessary.

[Rhinodawg]

13. Are you advocating the US go to war against them?

[morningfog]

15. The US is already at war against them.

[Generic Other]

44. No not really

I have no heart for war. But there should be a way to checkmate such evil. I don't think threatening to bomb holy sites would help the situation, but there should be a way to stop letting these thugs have the upper hand short of war.

[starroute]

58. These are the people who routinely destroy other Muslims' holy sites

Their brand of fanaticism is so extreme that they see shines and tombs of religious leaders as something to be eradicated and they've blown up large numbers of them in Iraq. There was even an unverified report a few months ago that one of their members had threatened to blow up the Kaaba in Mecca.

So no, I don't believe there is any threat that would discourage them short of war.

[Generic Other]

63. Hard to believe there is no way to stop them short of war

So many innocents to die for nothing. We all had such high hopes for an end to hostilities and American presence in Iraq.

Terribly sad and makes one feel so powerless!

[starroute]

113. War is what happens when a situation is too screwed up to resolve peacefully

The way to stop this short of war would have been not to have invaded Iraq eleven years ago. Or not to have fired the entire Iraqi army after we did invade. Or perhaps not to have covertly encouraged the overthrow of Assad.

But we created the conditions for war, and now we've got a war on our hands, like it or not. The best we can hope for is to get locals to do the boots-on-the-ground stuff while we provide air cover.

[Generic Other]

150. Yes the real culprits paint and enjoy their sunny retirements

or go on Fox to crow about what great strategists they were... And no one calls them on their lies. How many Americans even give a single damn what happens in the ME? They didn't care when we invaded under false pretenses. They didn't care when we killed huge numbers. They didn't care when no one was brought to justice. Why would they suddenly start to care? I can't see the public backing any more wars. Even just the air cover. Unless no one notices they happen.

I guess my big question is who do the Iraqis trust? I got fed that "they'll welcome US soldiers with flowers" propaganda last time. Is this any more likely now? We paint ourselves as good guys but we killed a lot of people. I can't see how the average Iraqi would trust us any more than the terrorists.

Did we manage to win any friends?

[jwirr]

59. These fanatics are a danger to most of the countries in the ME - I think it would be best if we got

them to handle this group. IMO we only mess things up worse when we go there. We went in the first time and forgot to use respect for their country and their culture. After that it was all down hill.

We can act with these ME countries but not without them.

[Generic Other]

65. Who do you mean by they?

Just Iraqis? Or a coalition of ME leaders?

We made such a mess of this while operation. Do we miss Saddam yet?

[jwirr]

72. Yes, we do miss him!! I meant a coalition of ME leaders. It is them that ISIS is threatening. And

yes they will use methods we hate here on DU but it seems we have been using those methods already under bushie and cheney.

[Generic Other]

84. B and C lost us all moral authority

and it will be a long time before we can ever (if ever) recover from that.

[jwirr]

120. Exactly. The people of the ME have witnessed first hand what those two did.

[Fla Dem]

118. Agree, where is Saudi Arabia in all of this? The pampered elite of the Middle East

And where is Jordan and Iran? Why does the United States have to be the one leading the offense against this extreme Muslim hoard? Are not these countries in the direct path of ISIS' goal of creating a caliphate from Morocco Spain to India? I am so tired of the US being the "go to " country for help.

[saidsimplesimon]

121. Fla Dem, the international pundits are asking why our so-called allies in

the Arabian world are most willing to fund terrorists yet unwilling to fund efforts to stop the insanity.

[Renew Deal]

90. I'm pretty sure we're already past that point

[Donald Ian Rankin]

25. The nukes killed far more innocent people than ISIS have so far.

And I think that ISIS's response to opposition is likely to be anger and aggression, not fear and backing down.

I suspect - although I am very much armchair quarterbacking - that the only think that will/would stop them would be a ground war by superior forces.

I think the West is unlikely to supply the ground part of that force, but might well end up supporting e.g. Iraqi troops from the air quite heavily.

But even that will probably involve a lot of innocent people getting killed.

[justiceischeap]

29. As was predicted by many after 9/11, there is really no winning a war against terrorism.

I mean, even if there was a ground war fought by superior forces, the bad thing about radical Islamists is that they just create more radicals using the deaths of the previous radicals.

[starroute]

62. They are no longer operating as terrorists

They are holding territory, and that makes them vulnerable.

[Generic Other]

71. But they are outsiders

so do they care if the locals suffer? They seem more like a criminal gang like the Taliban.

[TommyCelt]

132. "As was predicted by many after 9/11, there is really no winning a war against terrorism."

I forget the origination of the quote, but to paraphrase, it went something like this...

"America fighting the War of Terror is like fighting a nest of hornets with a well-made baseball bat. Sure you can batter the nest and scores inside to smithereens...but a bat is no good against the cloud of hornets that remain."

[Generic Other]

46. I was referring to the plan to bomb Fuji as a show of force

It was advanced in WW2 as a way to avoid targetting civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The US government chose not to go with this method.

And no I do not advocate nukes. Or ground forces. Just a threat to blow up something significant to ISIS. Do they not value anything?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

73. Nothing that large numbers of innocent people don't also value, I suspect N.T.

[Generic Other]

80. True

Maybe we should pay them to behave. SIGH....

[SnakeEyes]

128. Give ISIS time

they will surpass the 129K-246K that hiroshima/nagasaka bombs killed

[underthematrix]

33. How do you know we aren't playing hardball with them?

I'm pretty sure if you're posting here, like me, you do not sit in on national security briefings

[Generic Other]

48. True, I don't know

I just recall that the US government discussed using a tactic like this in Japan in order to deliver a message with less loss of life. I do not want to see us in another ground war. Do you?

[Scootaloo]

40. "I'm a pacifist. Let's nuke something"

[Generic Other]

50. I did not mean to advocate nukes

Sorry, I totally stated that badly. I was more thinking about how to stalemate them so they quit killing folks. Not with nukes. Some other form of weapons. Even drones sound better than ground troops. I guess this is the problem when their desire to murder exceeds our willingness to die.

[Scootaloo]

70. On paper, the solution is relatively simple

We need to encourage a coalition between the four states most involved - Syria, Iraq, Iran, and Turkey. Support this coalition with intelligence and airstrikes - no ground forces, just recon and air power.

The hangup of course, is that regional unity and cooperation is exactly the opposite of US foreign policy in the middle east.

[Generic Other]

75. This sounds like a reasonable plan

better than mine.

Now I am thinking of a Trojan Horse...I guess I better retire from being a pundit of military strategy cause I suck.

[Rhinodawg]

85. "We need to encourage a coalition between the four states most involved....

- Syria, Iraq, Iran, and Turkey."


And the odds of that happening are WHAT again?

[Scootaloo]

91. well, as I pointed out...

Regional unity and cooperation is kind of the last thing the united states wants. So realistically, it's not something we would even aim for.

However if we did, there's no real impediment towards it happening. all four recognize ISIS as the greater threat currently. iraq and iran are already working together, and Iran and Syria are already fairly close allies. Turkey is nothing if not pragmatic.

[CTyankee]

108. I hope we can dry up their funding and get the $400 million from the Mosul bank

back. But I am wondering if Obama is feeling like he has to do something militarily. Geez, this just keeps going on and on.

[delta17]

147. Honestly, I think anyone with an ISIS flag should get a missile.

Make them afraid to sleep at night, make people afraid to associate with them. They want to play games, we can play games too. There should be a very steep price to pay for this kind of brutality.

[Hippo_Tron]

161. We are playing hardball, we're letting our enemies kill each other

Why insert ourselves into the middle of a conflict where Iran and Assad are fighting against an Al Qaeda offshoot? It's a win-win situation for us.

[NuclearDem]

14. Fucking monsters.

[dixiegrrrrl]

17. Their method of beheading is particularly barbaric.

Not exactly a "clean" sword cut.
Ugggghhh....


They are certainly helping American overcome their aversion to dumping military might in the area.

[TDale313]

24. Sadly, I think that's the plan.

Goad us into taking military action. I don't have a good answer for how the US should react. It's a horrible, barbaric act and so tragic for his loved ones. I'm sick about this.

[polly7]

18. Oh nooooooo ......

[rbrnmw]

21. horrible so sad right now

[ZombieHorde]

26. Maybe the US should stop bombing people in the ME.

Maybe the cycle of violence will only end if someone stops being violent.

Unless of course violence is what people want.

[Mike Daniels]

28. Given that ISIS is also butchering fellow believers of the Islamic faith

I doubt their motivations are primarily a result of anything the US has done. It's just a handy excuse for them to spout out.

[ZombieHorde]

36. How are large grous of people radicalized?

There are probably many ways, and one of those ways seems to be violence. I wonder how many of my loved ones I could lose to murder before I wanted to shed blood.

[JNelson6563]

66. Ok, in thi situation, two words; power vacuum.

[ZombieHorde]

76. Do you think the US helped to create that power vacuum? nt

[JNelson6563]

157. The US created it, no question.

[anti partisan]

115. Favorite catch phrase of neocons - "power vacuum"

As if we need to step in there and "tell" a group of people (of course with plenty of violence and destruction) who they want to be led by. Some people even have the gall to call this "democracy".

It has never worked before, and will continue to not work.

Of course, we will continue to radicalize them because people get rich off it. How many Sunni Muslims are there? How many are in ISIS? We need to focus our policy on increasing the non-radical to radical ratio because it is the only way long-term peace will be achieved.

[underthematrix]

38. does anyone really know who ISIS is?

Who is a member of ISIS? Apparently not all of them are from the ME - some are Americans, Brits, and French, etc.

[tularetom]

56. Sen. McCain probably does

since he spent some time with them in Syria earlier this year.

[Cha]

149. Do Not Get Between John McCain and a Camera.

[grahamhgreen]

34. +1

[riverwalker]

30. heartbreaking

My heart aches for his mother.

[grahamhgreen]

31. Now we can attack Assad! We started this. Out now.

Condolences to the family. Another death GWB is responsible for.

[Warren DeMontague]

35. Ugh.

Pieces of shit.

[highmindedhavi]

41. They are obeying the quran

"So when you meet those who disbelieve, strike their necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom them until the war lays down its burdens. That is the command. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them Himself, but [He ordered armed struggle] to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds."

Sura 47:4

[Enrique]

54. oh we're playing crazy holy book verses

ok i'll play

Deuteronomy 21:18-21New International Version (NIV)

A Rebellious Son
18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.

[KansDem]

57. Hmmm...

This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.

I didn't know being stubborn and rebellious makes one a glutton and a drunkard.

Guess we all learn something old everyday...

[Kablooie]

176. He doesn't have to be that.

You just have to say it.
Those are just the magic words that will relieve you of your progeny.

[Scootaloo]

93. They're also disobeying it, chief

Maybe you haven't noticed, but holy books don't have terribly great internal consistency.

These guys are killing and pillaging because they're assholes with guns. Their religion is just a cover - and a pretty poor one, as evidenced by the, what is it, two billion Muslims on the planet who are absolutely nothing like these shitheads? Some number like that.

But hey, don't let me step on your incitement and bigotry party. It's DU after all, the Admins seem to love shit like this.

[kiranon]

160. What if we use the quran against them by creating some sort

of sign in the heavens that is called for in the quran to indicate that their god is greatly displeased with ISIL. It's time for special effects of a superlative nature to cause evil to stop. I believe the leadership is using religion and barbarism to gain control over people and land and using these religious zealots/murderers as their shock troops. If they succeed, the powers behind the shock troops will have to kill off all of these zealots themselves and will do so to protect what they have gained. In the meantime - drones and air strikes work well until the heavens part, thunder roles down the mountains, signs are seen in the heavens and voices are heard that make the zealots turn away. Without the zealots, the real leaders are no more of a threat than any other power seekers and are stripped of their ability to terrorize.

[deutsey]

51. Damn

[Old and In the Way]

52. Someone sure wants to drag us back into Iraq.

Hope Obama uses his drone technology to target ISIS leadership. Make #1 "0" and #2 into #1...then "0" and repeat until no one wants to be head of ISIS.

[Tarheel_Dem]

69. I think the problem with that is that we don't have great intel inside Syria. Someone we can.....

trust, has to be on the ground to provide intelligence so as to limit collateral damage. I agree, however, that something has to be done, and I don't mean sitting around trying to negotiate with these murderous assholes. It's amusing now to hear Congress critters who opposed Obama's call for action in Syria last year, saying that he's been too timid, or he "hasn't done enough".

[flamingdem]

138. Yesterday a Pentagon guy on CNN mentioned that Snowden's leaks

have been a disaster for Intel in the Middle East.

He said it as an aside, like we all know this right?

[Tarheel_Dem]

139. I don't know why anyone would be surprised by that. There's no doubt that Snowden has damaged....

the intel community, and from the Kremlin's point of view, I'm sure they're taking full advantage of that. The question now is, how many more of these beheadings are we gonna be treated to? And if we don't respond somehow, what does that say to N. Korea, and all the other monsters who have our citizens in custody?

[msanthrope]

170. Yes--the Snowden leaks have damaged our intel capabilities. nt

[flamingdem]

175. Besides the names of agents he mentioned communications

Snowden revealed information about that new ways to communicate were developed.

[msanthrope]

181. He is a traitor. And he ran to Putin. nt

[KurtNYC]

92. The target seems to be Syria.

My guess: when Russia finally invades Ukraine, we will topple Assad and occupy Syria.

[leftstreet]

101. Well Bush Inc did add Syria to Teh Axis of Teh Evil

Monday, 6 May, 2002,

The United States has added Cuba, Libya and Syria to the nations it claims are deliberately seeking to obtain chemical or biological weapons.

US Under Secretary of State John Bolton
Bolton: singled out Cuba for particular criticism

In a speech entitled "Beyond the Axis of Evil", US Under Secretary of State, John Bolton said that the three nations could be grouped with other so-called "rogue states" - Iraq, Iran and North Korea - in actively attempting to develop weapons of mass destruction.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1971852.stm

I've heard no word since then that Syria was taken off the table...

[KurtNYC]

109. Syria was one of the infamous "7 countries in 5 years"

[Old and In the Way]

105. For geo-strategic purposes?

Not sure how that is in our US interests at all. Russians would still have access to the Med. Sea. Why would we occupy Syria? We could have done that by staying in Iraq and made our troops a magnet to attract radical ME extremists...except we'd have the oil-fields.

[KurtNYC]

114. the Saudis and Isreal want Assad out

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323423804579024452583045962

http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Liberman-warns-that-Israel-will-topple-Assad-if-he-attacks-325664

You raise good points on the oil. Perhaps since ISIS combines Syria and Iraq, any military move going forward would also combine them.

[Hippo_Tron]

164. I don't think either Israel nor Saudi Arabia would prefer ISIS to replace Assad

Harry Truman observed in 1941 (before Pearl Harbor) that the best thing for America to do would be to let the Russians and the Germans kills each other, though noting that Hitler was the greater evil and could not ultimately be allowed to prevail under any circumstances.

I think in this situation, ISIS is Hitler and Assad is Stalin. You want to weaken both of them as much as possible and eventually you hope that neither gains control of the country, but at the end of the day Assad is the lesser evil than ISIS.

[KurtNYC]

167. exactly, no one wants ISIS to replace any government in that area so...

that sets us up to save the day, again.

ISIS is the new al-Qeada -- about 6,000 Saudi-backed mercs and extremists. The scenario is like those old door to door vacuum cleaner salesmen; when you open the door they throw al-Qeada or ISIS on the carpet then the USA offers to come in and clean it up.

It was one year ago almost to the day that we heard about Assad (or ???) using chemical weapons. This year ISIS pops up as a crISIS with exactly the same timing. Hmmmmm.

[Hippo_Tron]

173. No it doesn't really set us up to save the day, we're bloodletting

Whether Obama admits it or not, our de facto strategy is to let Assad/Iran and ISIS kill each other. He may intervene in a limited manner if it ever looks like ISIS might actually win, but he's demonstrated he's in no hurry to do so.

Obama is bloodletting, just as Harry Truman suggested we do with the Nazis and the Soviets. He won't say 'I'm just going sit back and let them kill each other' on television because that would be a public relations disaster, but that's what he's doing.

[morningfog]

117. Obama tried to go to Syria once. Second time's a charm!

[morningfog]

55. Very sad. However, I wish we cared as much for every innocent person the US military kills.

While the method IS uses is sensationalist and disturbing, the end result is the same. A dead innocent.

[missingthebigdog]

100. Thank you!

The time to stop this was BEFORE we started killing people to protect "our" oil. Every person who has died as a result of this idiotic adventure has someone who grieves their loss. It isn't hard to sign up people to avenge those deaths- remember 9-11??

[lunasun]

152. + 1

[Live and Learn]

156. +1 nt

[graywarrior]

68. My brain and heart are fighting over this

Fucking hell!

[RKP5637]

103. Yep, I know exactly what you mean. And there really is no perfect answer, damn if

you do, damn if you don't.

[Tarheel_Dem]

82. This is sad, and no doubt an effort to draw us back in. But how many more Americans are in line....

for this sort of horrific PR stunt? Other bad actors are watching to see how we respond to this. And for those upthread claiming that the US is just as barbaric....?

Ever hear of false equivalence?

[missingthebigdog]

158. Okay, let me see if I understand....

As long as we are less wrong than they are, we are right?

There is no way to justify this kind of brutality- no question about that. But that does not absolve us of responsibility for the many lives that have been lost at our hands. The people we killed are just as dead. Their families are just as devastated. In your false equivalency, which dog are we?

[RiffRandell]

89. So fucking sad...crying.

[samsingh]

95. isis is dangerous, single minded revolting and we need to stop them now

anything I say about them cannot give justice to the extent of their disgusting crimes

[Puzzledtraveller]

136. ^^this^^

[samsingh]

141. what does ^^this^^ mean?

[Puzzledtraveller]

143. that one agrees with the post.

[samsingh]

166. excellent

[TwilightGardener]

96. We should plan on fixing their little red wagon, and soon.

[Raffi Ella]

99. oh my god, that poor man.

I hate to admit it but I am officially terrorized by these monsters.

[Hoyt]

111. Beheading a journalist is awful. So is blowing off heads of a lot of innocent people with our bombs.

Sorry, I don't have a suggestion on how to respond. All I know is that our bombs are no better than these actions.

Even if one doesn't care about innocent Muslims, we killed more of our guys in Iraq than died on 9/11. That doesn't atone for anything.

[mvd]

116. Yep, both are wrong

Bush's illegal war in Iraq opened things up for horrible actions like today's purported execution. Hussein, while not a good guy, had the extremists under control. Then our war gave them a safe haven! The President is in a tough position because we do not want a war again but need to keep ISIS under control. I am in favor only of targeted action as I am quite anti-war: I don't oppose all action but am dovish for sure.

[Hoyt]

119. Exactly. Prior to bush's invasion, almost 1 million Christians lived in relative peace in Iraq.

They had to flee after bush.

I agree with the carefully targeted actions -- like drones.

[octoberlib]

112. Next up is a British journalist

The video also showed a man identified as British Journalist David Cawthorne Haines. He is kneeling and wearing an orange jumpsuit as the militant threatens to kill him next.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/video-purports-to-show-beheading-of-american-1409679186?mod=e2tw




I can't imagine the fear these guys must feel knowing what awaits them. It's heartbreaking.

[Botany]

127. George "fuckhead Bush & Dick Cheney just had to get in there and stir up that ....

.... hornet's nest.

And btw I don't ant to hear shit from John McCain either.

[jillan]

133. You Break it, You bought it. Yep, we sure did break it, didn't we?

[Botany]

146. ISIS wasn't in existence and al Qaeda wasn't operating in any area that was controlled ...

... by Saddam in Iraq before we invaded in that unneeded and illegal war. This is a classic
case of "blow back." In late winter 2003 I remember Joe Wilson was on NPR and he said
something like we can be in Baghdad in a week but that is when the trouble will start because
Iraq has 103 different sides and they all hate each other.

BTW that murdering bastard who sliced off those two people's heads really needs to meet
and spend some time w/a Navy Seal Team or some Marine Recon Commados.

[SnakeEyes]

153. Disagree with your last point

thats eye for an eye, not our system of justice, and besides the death penalty is not progressive.

[SnakeEyes]

131. So drone and air strikes?

What about the innocents that will be killed?

[cpwm17]

148. Hopefully that is a big reason that President Obama is being cautious

We don't need to murder a lot of innocents, plus that would also create many enemies and make the situation much worse.

[Puzzledtraveller]

135. hey, it's all good

just a little uprsing, they are freedom fighters afterall cut em some slack,

[Dorian Gray]

137. When I heard

I wanted to cry. Devastating to his family.

[In_The_Wind]

142. ___

[vanlassie]

145. And now Rick Scott blames Obama for lack of strategy. Asshole

[Cha]

151. Steven Sotloff~ :(

Mahalo, CTD

Executed Journalist Steven Sotloff Noted for His Heartfelt War Reporting

"ISIS appears to have cruelly executed American journalist Steven Sotloff just one week after his mother pleaded with the group's leader to "be merciful" and spare her son.

Shirley Sotloff's heartbreaking bid for her son's life was ignored and video was released today indicating he was the second American journalist to be beheaded by the Islamic militant group, ostensibly in retribution for U.S. planes bombing ISIS fighters in Iraq.

Sotloff's parents have declined any media interviews and have been enduring an agonizing wait after James Foley was executed last month and Sotloff was shown on his knees, wearing an orange jumpsuit and threatened with execution. Their only public words were Shirley Sotloff's video message to ISIS' caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi saying, "I ask you justice be merciful and not [to] punish my son for matters he has no control over. I ask you to use your authority to spare his life.”

more..
http://abcnews.go.com/International/executed-journalist-steven-sotloff-noted-heartfelt-war-reporting/story?id=25077040

[taught_me_patience]

159. I bet we can choke these fools off financially

no money=no war.

[Marrah_G]

163. We need to pull every American out of the Middle East

Let the ME countries handle this. Every time we go in there we create more zealots and innocent civilians pay the price.

[Marrah_G]

165. I cannot imagine the pain the family is going through

Not just knowing your child was murdered in a horrific manner, but having a video of it going out around the world.

[Katashi_itto]

168. As a Desert Storm Vet. So what? This is all designed to get us into a war.

We play their game if we respond in the traditional American way. Sorry about the guy. But tough break. Send in wetworks teams and start killing the financiers. Like say targets in the Saudi Arabian royalty. Handle ISIS money in any way, you become a viable target. Watch how fast this stops then.

[Raffi Ella]

171. Thank you for your service, and I agree with you, No War.

Two of my brothers served, one's a Lifer and the other was in for 4 years and could be called back any time. What I'm hearing from the White House about this is bone chilling-

I don't want my brothers in that region, it's not worth it. I care about the good people of the Middle East, I wish them well but not at the expense of Boots on the Ground.

Invading Iraq was the worst possible thing we could have done and ISIS, and the like, are the result of that. Our Military should not be asked to pay the price of their lives for the Deliberate and Willful War Crimes of the Bush Administration.

[macllyr]

169. The solution...

Obviously, ISIS is a good candidate for the first deployment on the ground of vicious war killer-robots…

I can help.

SkyNet

[raouldukelives]

174. Sometimes I feel like the best course of action is to stop flooding that part of the world

with billions of dollars and tons of surplus military equipment and to stop destabilizing regions for corporate needs. I dunno. Seems like it might help.

[phil89]

178. So we're taking the bait

Getting mad and now what? A few more billion should be wasted? It's neverending and we never learn.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

180. Boy! You sure read a LOT into my initial reaction to hearing this horrifying news. Sotloff's life

may not be worth anything to you, but upon hearing that he had been beheaded, my initial reaction was horror.

I don't know what the answer is. I suppose we could do what you're willing to do, just shrug off these beheadings as if those lives do not matter.