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redqueen

(115,103 posts)
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 08:04 PM Jul 2014

Judge says man who raped sleeping woman is not a “classic rapist,” just “lost control”

A British man was just sentenced to five years in prison for raping an unconscious woman. According to a report from the Hull Daily Mail, it took the jury just over two hours to unanimously conclude that Lee Setford was guilty of raping a woman who was asleep on his couch. But here’s what the judge told him upon sentencing, “I do not regard you as a classic rapist. I do not think you are a general danger to strangers. You are not the type who goes searching for a woman to rape.

“This was a case where you just lost control of normal restraint,” Judge Michael Mettyear continued in his assessment of Setford. ”She was a pretty girl who you fancied. You simply could not resist. You had sex with her.”

Not a classic rapist. Simply could not resist. Not a danger. This is everything that is wrong with how we view and talk about rape, and this is hardly an isolated incident. There are scripts that most people assume all rapes should follow, and roles that rapists and victims are both expected to play. The persistence of these myths about who counts as a “classic” rapist — and who makes for a good victim — is astonishing considering how much we know about perpetrators of sexual violence, particularly in the United States.

...

And this erasure has consequences. It’s what allows ignorant people like George Will to pretend that most sexual assaults are just “ambiguities of the hookup culture.” It’s what allows politicians and law enforcement to ignore the experiences of survivors on college campuses, in the military, in prisons and every other place where sexual violence occurs. (Which is everywhere.) It dismisses the women and men who told their assailants “no,” but were ignored. The wives who told their husbands “no,” but were ignored. The sexual assaults that don’t involve a weapon, but instead feature much more insidious forms of coercion. This is what sexual violence really looks like, but these aren’t the stories we tell ourselves about sexual violence.

...

http://www.salon.com/2014/07/03/judge_says_man_who_raped_sleeping_woman_is_not_a_classic_rapist_just_lost_control/


76 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Judge says man who raped sleeping woman is not a “classic rapist,” just “lost control” (Original Post) redqueen Jul 2014 OP
And tell me again WHY musette_sf Jul 2014 #1
Because they can and reinforce one another WhiteTara Jul 2014 #13
That pretty much sums it up! It is stunning that in the 21st century women are still RKP5637 Jul 2014 #29
Not all of us. LoisB Jul 2014 #71
Agree! Well said! n/t RKP5637 Jul 2014 #75
i wonder if that would be said if she beat the rapist w/a baseball bat? roguevalley Jul 2014 #30
They're bigger and meaner. nt valerief Jul 2014 #41
During one of his routines many years ago, Chris Rock said tblue37 Jul 2014 #70
"You simply could not resist" so raped her and this is not so bad? uppityperson Jul 2014 #2
He's only a danger to sleeping strangers BainsBane Jul 2014 #3
In five years Rosa Luxemburg Jul 2014 #35
Was he talking about Julian Assange?... SidDithers Jul 2014 #4
Beat me to it. nt msanthrope Jul 2014 #50
What a piece of shit shenmue Jul 2014 #5
So it wasn't "rape" rape, I guess. Orsino Jul 2014 #6
Classic Mysoginistic Thinking warrant46 Jul 2014 #7
WTF is a "classic" rapist? Jackpine Radical Jul 2014 #8
The rapists who, when they rape, misogynists label it "legitimate" or "forcible" rape. nt redqueen Jul 2014 #10
Trench coat and drool. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2014 #26
Nah. That's just Asher Jackpine Radical Jul 2014 #27
Chester usually wore a white dress shirt.... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2014 #40
Guy hiding in the bushes, raping young white virgin strangers n/t LadyHawkAZ Jul 2014 #38
THIS is what women mean when they talk about "rape culture" guys, in case you didn't get it. bettyellen Jul 2014 #9
^^^This^^^ Gormy Cuss Jul 2014 #16
bingo. BlancheSplanchnik Jul 2014 #28
some guys here have expressed the thought it's "people who like rape" - so it doesn't exist, LOL. bettyellen Jul 2014 #31
Please tell me you are kidding? JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #51
Nope- they think it's "rah rah rape" instead of hey look- she's asleep/ drunk/ bettyellen Jul 2014 #56
Pathetic JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #57
Haven't we all been in the place where sex with an unconscious person XemaSab Jul 2014 #44
Exactly. ismnotwasm Jul 2014 #61
+1 Hong Kong Cavalier Jul 2014 #66
WTF?!?! Solly Mack Jul 2014 #11
So, he wasn't a "classic" rapist. 3catwoman3 Jul 2014 #12
:facepalm: (nt) jeff47 Jul 2014 #14
What a friggin moron NewJeffCT Jul 2014 #15
How would he feel if HE were sleeping and some guy came along MadrasT Jul 2014 #62
Imagine it was a murder case instead. Would "classic murder" and "lost control of normal restraint" tclambert Jul 2014 #17
So the judge believes men are wild animals with no reasoning capacity? Rather low standards, there. freshwest Jul 2014 #18
None of this sh*t surprises me anymore etherealtruth Jul 2014 #19
That Judge should be unbenched (?) and lose his law license. The end. Tuesday Afternoon Jul 2014 #20
Classic rapist, Free-Form Jazz rapist, Alt-Country Indie rapist...STILL A RAPIST! Throd Jul 2014 #21
Beware the angry female alternative pop rapist IronLionZion Jul 2014 #34
"lost control"? rape isn't some stream that's breached its banks, MisterP Jul 2014 #22
He Just Needs to Learn Control Wolf Frankula Jul 2014 #23
This. Times a fucking thousand. nt AverageJoe90 Jul 2014 #33
Independence Day should mean being free from idiot judges like this in England kairos12 Jul 2014 #24
I am assuming that by "classic rapist," he is referring to... Lucky Luciano Jul 2014 #25
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #32
Un friggin believable. William769 Jul 2014 #36
How'd Judge Mettyear feel if his daughter or a loved one is just too much for someone to resist! Tikki Jul 2014 #37
Seems he didn't give it much thought. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #49
As I said upthread, how would he feel if HE, HIMSELF is just too much for someone to resist? MadrasT Jul 2014 #63
The judge's name is Michael Mettyear. mbperrin Jul 2014 #39
Well that's a shock. liberalmuse Jul 2014 #42
He didn't have sex with her...he raped her with the full intent to do so. Rex Jul 2014 #43
That leaves me pretty much speechless. R. Daneel Olivaw Jul 2014 #45
So, was Bull Connor liberalhistorian Jul 2014 #46
Yeah, she was sure asking for it in her sleep. Snoring is just soooo sexxay, would make anyone... moriah Jul 2014 #47
Geez. What a dumb fuck! Enthusiast Jul 2014 #48
I'm not a classic killer, I just lost control because you were so annoying. Shrike47 Jul 2014 #52
ROTFLMFAO! Dark n Stormy Knight Jul 2014 #67
With luck this will go to sentence review intaglio Jul 2014 #53
The crim allegedly has a previous battery conviction from 2009. flvegan Jul 2014 #54
I like how they had to slip in "particularly in the United States" , nice snooper2 Jul 2014 #55
I think the context was nations where you'd expect justice..... bettyellen Jul 2014 #58
You are half correct, you mean nations where laws are there to protect women then one stupid judge snooper2 Jul 2014 #59
We have judges doing the same fucking thing in the USA, in case you hadn't heard bettyellen Jul 2014 #60
but the fact that it is rare is why there is a big story about it every time snooper2 Jul 2014 #64
0 rapes reported in Pakistan this past year! Yeah super quotable asshole judges bettyellen Jul 2014 #68
This message was self-deleted by its author Tuesday Afternoon Jul 2014 #65
That is classic rape. ZombieHorde Jul 2014 #69
This reminds me of "legitimate rape" somehow. nt bemildred Jul 2014 #72
I could see why it would. ZombieHorde Jul 2014 #73
No, I mean "classic rape" reminds me of "legitimate rape". bemildred Jul 2014 #74
Ah. nt ZombieHorde Jul 2014 #76

RKP5637

(67,108 posts)
29. That pretty much sums it up! It is stunning that in the 21st century women are still
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:10 PM
Jul 2014

fighting for equal rights, for example. I will never understand in the US how some can vote into office some of the stunning assholes we have in positions of authority. Are Americans simply that ignorant and stupid to vote for those that will do the most harm to them.

tblue37

(65,340 posts)
70. During one of his routines many years ago, Chris Rock said
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 06:24 PM
Jul 2014

that he thought women were smarter than men, but he said the reason men have all the power is "because we can beat you up." Then he mentioned Margaret Thatcher, who was in power at the time: "Margaret Thatcher is the most powerful women in the world," he said, "but I could kick her *ss!"

Of course, I disagree that women are smarter than men--on average there is no difference in intelligence between the sexes--but most men are stronger than women (men have, on average 70% greater upper body strength than women).

Obviously many other things contribute to the development and maintaining of a patriarchal social system, but the fact that men are usually stronger than women is not a minor detail.

***BTW, Rock was not saying that it is a good thing that men have power because they are stronger--he was just saying it was, in his opinion, the main contributing factor.

Rosa Luxemburg

(28,627 posts)
35. In five years
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:45 PM
Jul 2014

he may be a danger to more sleeping women. Some rapists like dead women. Judge was out of order on this one.

shenmue

(38,506 posts)
5. What a piece of shit
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 08:12 PM
Jul 2014

"Here are some more people who ought to be thrown screaming off a cliff..." - George Carlin

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
9. THIS is what women mean when they talk about "rape culture" guys, in case you didn't get it.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 08:50 PM
Jul 2014

Too many people think like this- otherwise the fucker would not feel safe to say it.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
28. bingo.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:01 PM
Jul 2014

Otherwise he wouldn't feel safe saying it.

Wouldn't feel like he owed the guy some kind of apology.
Wouldn't feel himself identifying/ sympathizing with the guy.

Women aren't really people in this mindset.




 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
31. some guys here have expressed the thought it's "people who like rape" - so it doesn't exist, LOL.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:16 PM
Jul 2014

Nope, what a silly assumption. You;d think they'd actually read up a bit before showing their ignorance here.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
56. Nope- they think it's "rah rah rape" instead of hey look- she's asleep/ drunk/
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 11:46 AM
Jul 2014

a slut, and so fair game.

XemaSab

(60,212 posts)
44. Haven't we all been in the place where sex with an unconscious person
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 12:22 AM
Jul 2014

sounds so awesome you just can't help yourself?

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
15. What a friggin moron
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:03 PM
Jul 2014

surprised to see this is in the UK, but I guess this sort of idiocy can be anywhere - I thought it would be a relative of those teabaggers from a few years back - the "forcible rape" guy or the other guy that said a woman's body could shut down the pregnancy.

Can you impeach judges in the UK? This guy is obviously not fit for duty.

How would he feel if his daughter or wife were sleeping and some guy came along & just lost control around them?








tclambert

(11,085 posts)
17. Imagine it was a murder case instead. Would "classic murder" and "lost control of normal restraint"
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:11 PM
Jul 2014

make any sense then? That is how a judge should think. But he went for the anti-woman approach. The judge should be sentenced to watch this video 500 times:

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
18. So the judge believes men are wild animals with no reasoning capacity? Rather low standards, there.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:15 PM
Jul 2014

Someone should check for the skeletons in this judge's closet. Since it's okay to 'fancy' a woman and have a sex with her while incapacitated.

Reminiscent of the court who threw out the case of a man who raped a disabled woman with the mind of a child who had cerebral palsy, because she did put up enough of a fight...

And a judge who let a middle aged guy off for raping a 6 year old girl years ago.

The judge claimed she 'seduced' the man and was 'promiscuous.' I never forgot that one.

This is rape culture. And yes, every woman knows.



MisterP

(23,730 posts)
22. "lost control"? rape isn't some stream that's breached its banks,
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:33 PM
Jul 2014

it's not like everyone naturally wakes up rapey and only some lack the willpower to avoid it!

Wolf Frankula

(3,600 posts)
23. He Just Needs to Learn Control
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:34 PM
Jul 2014

He can best do that in a room with bars on the window, and breaking rocks on the road gang.

Wolf

kairos12

(12,859 posts)
24. Independence Day should mean being free from idiot judges like this in England
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:39 PM
Jul 2014

or the Hobby Lobby 5 here.

Lucky Luciano

(11,254 posts)
25. I am assuming that by "classic rapist," he is referring to...
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:50 PM
Jul 2014

...a rather swarthy man hiding out in a dark alley or parking garage with a knife/gun who surprises a fair skinned mother of two, knocks over her groceries, pushes her into his creepy van, and kidnaps her - then drives to some scary location out in the sticks or some abandoned building where he then forces himself on her. After he is done, he dumps her violated body and soul near some abandoned industrial park where she finally finds the strength to stagger back to civilization. At that point, she flags down a car whose occupants drive her to a hospital or police station.

I think this is the only thing that qualifies as rape to a certain kind of people - the swarthy characteristic of the assailant is probably the key point in all of he above.

Tikki

(14,557 posts)
37. How'd Judge Mettyear feel if his daughter or a loved one is just too much for someone to resist!
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:48 PM
Jul 2014


Tikki

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
63. As I said upthread, how would he feel if HE, HIMSELF is just too much for someone to resist?
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 12:57 PM
Jul 2014

He sees women as "the other", not as human beings just like himself.

mbperrin

(7,672 posts)
39. The judge's name is Michael Mettyear.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 10:51 PM
Jul 2014

The rapist's name is Lee Setford, and he has a previous conviction for assault.

Good thing they're in Britain - over here some rednecks and their relatives might give 'em both a necktie party.

liberalmuse

(18,672 posts)
42. Well that's a shock.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 11:12 PM
Jul 2014

Yet another male judge who absolves a rapist because hey, an unconscious woman should know better, right? If you can't say "No", that means yes, right?

I guess the good news is the planet is moving towards feminization as part of its natural cycle. The patriarchy is going to be extinct within the next century, and the matriarchy is ready to take over for a time. We're seeing the final death throes, and unfortunately, there will be many more stories like this.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
43. He didn't have sex with her...he raped her with the full intent to do so.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 11:15 PM
Jul 2014

That judge needs to be fired ASAP.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
45. That leaves me pretty much speechless.
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 01:35 AM
Jul 2014

A judge has the stones to make a twisted pronouncement like that and still stay on the bench?

I hope that he is not allowed to judge another case ever.

liberalhistorian

(20,818 posts)
46. So, was Bull Connor
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 01:38 AM
Jul 2014

not a "classic racist", then, just a man who "lost control?" Sheesh, what a stupid, ignorant, misogynist judge.

moriah

(8,311 posts)
47. Yeah, she was sure asking for it in her sleep. Snoring is just soooo sexxay, would make anyone...
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 01:56 AM
Jul 2014

... "lose control", right?

Looking at the original article, she was drunk to the point of being unconscious at various points in the night. She also vomited, which should be a good sign to a guy that the girl has ingested enough alcohol to make her physically ill -- that she's not a great candidate for sex -- more for someone to watch her and make sure she doesn't pass out and puke up more.

intaglio

(8,170 posts)
53. With luck this will go to sentence review
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 10:04 AM
Jul 2014

because of undue leniency.

Because I and other Brits will have e-mailed the Attorney General for such a review
https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-low-crown-court-sentence

flvegan

(64,407 posts)
54. The crim allegedly has a previous battery conviction from 2009.
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 10:29 AM
Jul 2014

Okay fellas, a quick recap (in case you missed it...some of you are kind of dumb):

IF a woman shows up at your house, don't rape her. K? The following subset of rules apply to this main rule.
It doesn't matter how drunk she is.
It doesn't matter if she's with another woman when she arrives.
It doesn't matter if she's SO drunk she's puking and then passing out.
It doesn't matter that she didn't say "no" as silence is NOT acquiescence when it comes to sex.
It doesn't matter if you "fancy" her. (dumb fucking judge)
You CAN resist. Holy shit, how stupid are some people? "You couldn't resist." What, did I miss the testimony about the gun put to this man's head? The knife to his infant's throat?

Sigh. At least the jury saw it for what it was, I suppose.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
55. I like how they had to slip in "particularly in the United States" , nice
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 10:51 AM
Jul 2014

Now go to Pakistan you half wit author then go check out some countries in Africa, when you get done with that give me a call and we will take the next step.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
58. I think the context was nations where you'd expect justice.....
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 12:20 PM
Jul 2014

Not nations where women are still officially controlled by men. Oh wait- we are that too here. Never mind.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
59. You are half correct, you mean nations where laws are there to protect women then one stupid judge
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 12:31 PM
Jul 2014

makes some idiotic fucking comments, THAT is why there is a story-

So, you are right, in Pakistan it would be a miracle just to have a trial in the first place.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
64. but the fact that it is rare is why there is a big story about it every time
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 02:01 PM
Jul 2014

unlike say, in the Sudan

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
68. 0 rapes reported in Pakistan this past year! Yeah super quotable asshole judges
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 05:30 PM
Jul 2014

who make it to the papers are rare. Actual injustice, however, is not. Process the fucking rape kits already, people. Try to pretend you care about prosecuting rapists.

Response to redqueen (Original post)

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
69. That is classic rape.
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 06:05 PM
Jul 2014

Rapes of opportunity were the oldest rapes. The victims were family members, spouses, raided villagers, guests, etc. Life was too difficult for most people to go out in search of victims, so rapists victimized those around them. This is still the most common form of rape because it is the easiest.


You are not the type who goes searching for a woman to rape.


This is the more modern type of rapist. People moved closer together, left home for work, etc. The serial/stalking kind of rape was much easier when people became more "civilized/domesticated."

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
73. I could see why it would.
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 07:02 PM
Jul 2014

My post divides rape into two categories, as does "legitimate rape" versus "illegitimate rape." However, unlike "legitimate rape," my post doesn't claim some rapes are illegitimate. My post claims some rapes are easier, more convenient, than others for the rapist, and the easier rapes were the "classic rapes," to use the judge's terminology.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
74. No, I mean "classic rape" reminds me of "legitimate rape".
Sun Jul 6, 2014, 07:15 PM
Jul 2014

A term from the 2012 election in Missouri, IIRC. Mourdock or one of those clowns.

Your post is fine.

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