The stereotype of the crazed homicidal gay person is an old libel.

[yardwork]

Check yourself if you find yourself buying into one of our culture's old, old biases.

It's very offensive to speculate that a psychotic murderer must have been gay.

That's all.

[CBGLuthier]

1. +1,000,000

I was shocked to see that load being shipped at DU.

[yardwork]

2. Thanks!

[TDale313]

3. Thanks. Well put. n/t

[Raine1967]

4. Agreed! It's nice to see you yardwork!

I just posted an OP wondering if people wanted to create a thesis based on his writing on videos. I find it all very strange.

He's dead. People seems to want to make him into something that they want to make him into. the crazy homicidal gay guy was the most disturbing one to me.

I would like to see what his former/current friend and family say about him and what he did. To suggest that he killed so many people because he might have been gay is beyond my ability to comprehend.

[SheilaT]

5. Never noticed there was such a stereotype.

Maybe I've just known too many gay people (as boringly straight as I am) to have ever thought that.

To me the bigger problem is the assumption that anyone who kills must be mentally ill. I doubt that very many killers, even serial or mass killers, actually are. They carefully plan what they are doing. They do what they do specifically to make people dead, whether they use guns or set fires or bombs or whatever. That's not mentally ill. I'd call it demented in a particular way, because "normal" people don't kill others.

[dsc]

20. It has been a long existing stereotype

Hitchcock even made a film which exploited it.

[SheilaT]

43. Which Hitchcock film?

"Strangers on a Train"? If I've got the wrong one, let me know.

In any case, I've never considered that to be a stereotype.



Sometimes I must be living under a large rock.

[dsc]

44. I was thinking of Rope

but Strangers also fits

[SheilaT]

45. I'm not familiar with Rope.

Thank you.

Too often I think I know something that I don't, in this case which film is being referenced. I like learning such things as this.

[dsc]

47. rope was based in the Leopold and Loeb case

great film if you are into old films.

[SheilaT]

50. Yes, I am in to old films.

Among the things I find fascinating about them, is if they were "modern" films, meaning the story took place in the time the film was made, I find I can learn a lot about that specific time. Old novels are the same way. It can be utterly fascinating to read a novel written in the mid 1920's (although not anything by Hemingway or Fitzgerald, god love them) and learn a whole lot about life and expectations of that era. What I find especially interesting in novels from the late 20's is how the Great Depression simply is not foreshadowed.

The down side of novels written about an era but well after that era, is that the writer knows full well what will happen. The best example are novels set in or before the Civil War. If they were written after 1865, they know full well that slavery will end. What is so incredibly powerful about Uncle Tom's Cabin is that it was written by someone who clearly abhorred slavery, but could not imagine it ending. If you have not read that novel, I highly recommend it. I finally read it a while back when NPR's Talk of the Nation was doing its bookclub on the air. One month they selected Uncle Tom's Cabin and I decided I finally had a good reason to read it. I honestly thought, because the novel was more than a century and a half old already, that I would find it tedious and boring. Au contraire. The first fifty pages were slightly slow, and after that I literally could not put it down. I actually got to be one of the people who discussed it in the first half hour of the show. If you are fascinated enough, http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1010297 will bring you to the NPR place where you could listen to the bookclub discussion. I'm Sheila from Overland Park, Kansas, in the first half hour.

And I just checked Netflix, and they do have Rope. I've added it to my list. Thank you for telling me about it.

[Tom Ripley]

51. Rope is the best, but Compulsion and Swoon are also good adaptations of Leopold and Loeb.

For other reasons, I am also partial to Strangers on a Train.

[RKP5637]

6. Excellent!!! n/t

[Cali_Democrat]

7. What's up with DU lately?

Did you catch this?

I feel sorry for women when it comes to this dynamic. They're driven by their genetic code to seek out the most vicious barbarian they can find to mate with

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4995636

[boston bean]

12. I keep wondering when people on this site will say enough of this

bullshit.

Putting victims second to the whims of misogynistic evil mens fee fee's.

[Scootaloo]

23. Well, so long as Skinner is sucking in ad revenue from clicks on troll threads...

[Starry Messenger]

32. Yup.

[FreeState]

39. +1

[etherealtruth]

17. Apparently this garbage meets community standards

... as does a lot of other racist, homophobic, misogynistic garbage.

[Gormy Cuss]

40. The community standards are whatever a random group of 7 DUers says they are.

IOW, the standard is no standards at all.

[christx30]

31. The truth is that

women wouldn't date this guy because they listened to that little voice in their head that said "Run!! This guy is bad news". Everyone needs to listen to that voice. It'll save their lives.

[johnp3907]

46. Damn you!

I hadn't seen that OP, but I followed your link and read the whole thread. It was almost worth the agony to get to this comment by Number23:

"Just when you think it can't get any crazier than the OP, the freaking RESPONSES park the bus in Crazy Town and stay for the freaking weekend!"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4996438

At least I got a little chuckle.
Plus it's always encouraging to see Starry Messenger and redqueen fighting the good fight.

[Starry Messenger]

8. This place is out to lunch anymore.

Good to see you yardwork.

[Helen Borg]

9. Was he psychotic?

First time I hear that. I wonder if we'll hear what meds he was on. I bet SSRIs.

[dballance]

13. Perhaps Yes. One of his family members called the police. SSRIs had nothing to do with it.

According to what I've read one of his family members called the police with concerns about him. I can tell you from personal experience with my schizophrenic brother that it's incredibly difficult to get the authorities to take action which might deprive a private citizen of their liberties. This is by design in our system because, in the past and currently, monarchs and governments have imprisoned/imprison people on the flimsy excuse that one was mentally ill and so it was for their benefit.

As to the thought that SSRIs may have contributed to his rampage that is just not supported by the evidence and studies of people on SSRIs. People on SSRIs are no more violent or psychotic than the general population. Sure, you can find anecdotal cases where people on SSRIs have done horrible things. Perhaps this is one. Statistically though, the vast majority of people on SSRIs have positive benefits from their use of SSRIs.

Sure, the SSRIs do come with warnings and risks. Maybe you should consider the warnings and risks of Tylenol then. Tylenol causes more than 300 deaths a year and it's available OTC. link: http://www.propublica.org/article/tylenol-mcneil-fda-behind-the-numbers

So don't even begin to blame a vary effective set of medications for one incident.

[Helen Borg]

19. But there was no FDA black box warning about suicide for Tylenol.

There was for SSRIs: http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/2007/ucm108905.htm

[dballance]

26. I'm not sure what your point is.

Just because the FDA doesn't issue a warning about a drug or require manufacturers and distributors to place a warning on the product does not make it less lethal. Indisputable statistics from peer-reviewed studies are much more valuable.

Dispute the stats if you can. People die from the use of Tylenol at a rate of 300+ per year. I can't find any stats that say they use of SSRIs causes deaths in a similar number. Not to mention it's hard to prove a negative. As in, how many people on SSRI's DON'T kill themselves or others BECAUSE they are on meds.

From the reporting I've read so far Elliot Rodger REFUSED to take meds to help his mental health. So the use of any anti-psychotic or SSRIs is irrelevant to his case.

[Helen Borg]

30. My point is simple: SSRIs -> suicide warning for < 24 yo. Tylenol -> NOT!

Nobody knows if he was getting meds or not, and which meds.

[Neoma]

33. Then why do you try to make the point that it's relevant?

I've been on SSRIs and had the most horrible reaction, but I didn't go on a murdering spree that ended with suicide.

[Helen Borg]

34. It's not deterministic! There are many factors, obviously.

But it could be the tipping factor for somebody who is already going down that road...

[dballance]

36. You are WRONG. The reporting says he REFUSED meds.

Your statement that "Nobody knows if he was getting meds or not..." is incorrect.

Perhaps if he were getting meds he might not have acted.

Yes, there are meds that have a very negative effect on a person. In this case it does not seem likely he was on any meds so it is not a factor.

[Helen Borg]

37. I think we need to wait until the dust settles

Before believing all the reports... We are at the stage where things and their opposite are said

[dballance]

38. That is sooo funny. Go ahead and condemn SSRIs b4 the dust settles.

We need to wait until the dust settles but it's okay for you to condemn the use of SSRIs before the dust settles and you have all the evidence that might support your ideology and narrative. Well please present that.

I'm glad you are willing to step back and wait for the dust to settle if you believe it supports your position. Too bad you seem to attack, in real time before the dust settles, an opinion that is not in concert with yours.

HYPOCRITE!!!!

[VanillaRhapsody]

55. It wasn't an SSRI and he refused it...

Risperidal

[VanillaRhapsody]

54. I read the name of the drug...it was no SSRI I could recall....it closely sounded like drugs for

schizophenia...after all he heard voices and was grand delusional.

[Warren Stupidity]

10. exactly. Why bother with what the shooter wrote as his motives when we can blame the gays?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

11. Ever heard of Alexander the Great? N.T.

[yardwork]

15. Alexander the Great might have been gay so all gays are killers?

????

[valerief]

14. Ha! Are all gay mass murderers so obsessed with getting laid by women as this one?

I didn't know our murderer du jour was gay or that there was even a gay murderer stereotype.

I know Hollywood promoted the gay villain over the decades (think Peter Lorre) as part of the Hays Code. Previously, gay characters were treated comically (equally offensive but at least not villainous).

[dballance]

16. Seems like another privileged WHITE MALE. Let's start profiling WHITE MALES.

FAUX news indoctrinates people to fear the minorities; fear the "other."

Well here is another WHITE MALE who went on a rampage with knives and guns. Okay, sure there was an Asian and a Latino mass shooting gunMAN in the last few years. The majority of mass killers like this guy tend to be WHITE MALES. All of them heterosexual.

Reading the excerpts from his manifesto he seems to be very jealous of other guys who have women. Trust me, as a gay man, I can tell you that is not something we feel.

There are obviously some mental illness issues with this guy. I doubt any of them had to do with him possibly being gay.

[frogmarch]

18. Yes! I agree!

The old "he musta been one of them closet homos to have done that" mantra should be offensive to anyone with even a smidgen of smarts.

[seabeyond]

21. i thought so. lat last night. then thought, maybe i was wrong. so, thank you yard.

that is how it felt to me

[thesquanderer]

22. Also silly to implicate Asperger's

Even if it describes him, what difference does that make?

Just more stuff to feed the "us vs. them" fear of the "different" mentality.

[treestar]

24. Never seen that stereotype

Never known of one. Maybe Andrew Concannon (sp?) Usually they are straight and when you say "homicidal maniac" straight guys come to mind.

[txwhitedove]

25. Exactly.

[Zorra]

48. The characters "Buffalo Bill" in the film "Silence of the Lambs", Norman Bates in "Psycho",

and "Bobbi" in "Dressed To Kill" are high profile examples of this stereotype in film.

The stereotype has been portrayed in many other films and TV shows as well.

[treestar]

49. I'm not a big film watcher

Maybe that's how I didn't pick it up.

[Tom Ripley]

52. I would include the common portrayal of Richard III and even Scar in The Lion King

it really is an ingrained trope

[JDPriestly]

27. He was probably too lonely to be gay or have any other overt sexual identity.

He was completely self-centered. That was his problem.

[LeftishBrit]

28. k&r

[NuclearDem]

29. This whole tragedy has brought out some disgusting speculation.

Utterly shameful.

[Zorra]

35. Wacko religious conservatives have used LGBT, and women, as convenient scapegoats for most every

Last edited Sun May 25, 2014, 03:53 PM - Edit history (1)

known act of destruction that has ever occurred.

It's All Our Fault! 10 Disasters the Gays Supposedly Caused

Floods, Fires and Tornadoes Everywhere, 2012
Texas Gov. Rick Perry, who nearly beat former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney for the Republican presidential nomination, is certainly a character. But it turns out there was a member on his campaign team who perhaps out-crazied him. Pam Olsen, the founder of the Florida Prayer Network, believed that marriage equality and ordination of gay priests could lead to floods, fires, and tornadoes.

"You know what, God is not one that is going to wink at sin," Olsen said in a video. "God is shaking. If anybody looks at the news and has just seen what's been happening recently with the floods, the fires, the tornadoes, God is shaking. Yeah I think you have God shaking, sure you have the enemy shaking, you have both and I don't want to say oh that's the judgment of God or that's the enemy. But the reality is God is judging us, and I think it's going to get worse."

Child Rape
September 11, 2001 attacks
Mass Murder
Hurricane Katrina
The Economic Downturn in Post WWI Germany
Homosexuality in Children/Early Teens
AIDS

http://www.ranker.com/list/the-7-craziest-things-ever-blamed-on-homosexuals/joanne

[gollygee]

41. I can't think of any real reason someone would think he was gay

There's a post that had some of his rant written on it and he seems in it to be obviously heterosexual.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4997578

I don't understand why anyone would assume he's gay. He wanted beautiful women and was pissed off that they didn't want him. How would that even lead to "oh he must be gay" anyway?

[dballance]

42. Thank You!

As an openly gay man I'm happy to report I've never had the inclination to abuse children, drug and molest others, or go on a rampage where I killed others even though I had easy access to guns that my family owned.

As a gay man I have experienced discrimination for who I am and have contemplated suicide. It kind of goes with the territory when I was a kid in the late '70s and early '80s. Back when we were still being taught by the Reagans and their ilk that being a homo was nasty and should be punished by Gawd.

Not to mention this guy's manifesto and YouTube rants seem to point out he was frustrated by his HETEROSEXUAL desires being spurned. How his rants about women turning him down make him a homosexual are FAUX SNOOZE memes at their best.

[fujiyama]

53. I agree completely. I'm tired of this canard.

If anyone needs proof, they should read his manifesto. It's a bizarre and misogynistic creepfest.

And I doubt he was ranting about "those beautiful blondes" because he was just in the closet.