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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMichael Kinsley’s review of Glenn Greenwald’s book is the worst thing The NYT Book Review has ever r
BY TED RALL
Michael Kinsleys review of the new Glenn Greenwald book is the worst thing The New York Times Book Review has ever run.
This makes it worth reading.
Magisterial in its intellectual dishonesty, so breathtakingly establishmentarian one wonders how this got past his own copy of Microsoft Word much less an editor, and perhaps the most egregious example of a hatchet job masquerading as a book review in recorded history, Eyes Everywhere inadvertently leaves the reader with an anyone who elicits this much contempt cant be all bad vibe that will likely lead curious book buyers to further line Greenwalds pockets.
Like any classic hit piece, Kinsleys bullshit starts out reeking right out of the gate:
But its not that simple, as Greenwald must know. There are laws against government eavesdropping on American citizens, and there are laws against leaking official government documents. You cant just choose the laws you like and ignore the ones you dont like. Or perhaps you can, but you cant then claim that its all very straightforward.
What Kinsley is missing here I believe he isnt mendacious, simply stupid is that some laws are more important than others.
more
http://pando.com/2014/05/23/michael-kinsleys-review-of-glenn-greenwalds-new-book-is-the-worst-thing-the-nyt-book-review-has-ever-run/
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)Who says that journalists should only publish what the government says it is OK for them to publish. What a disgrace.
struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)"journalists should only publish what the government says it is OK for them to publish"
All you can do is to paraphrase the Young Turks' paraphrase of Barry Eisler's paraphrase of Michael Kinsley's piece -- and since Eisler begins by truncating a paragraph of Kinsley's, the paraphrase drifts rather far from the original. The full paragraph reads:
The question is who decides. It seems clear, at least to me, that the private companies that own newspapers, and their employees, should not have the final say over the release of government secrets, and a free pass to make them public with no legal consequences. In a democracy (which, pace Greenwald, we still are), that decision must ultimately be made by the government. No doubt the government will usually be overprotective of its secrets, and so the process of decision-making whatever it turns out to be should openly tilt in favor of publication with minimal delay. But ultimately you cant square this circle. Someone gets to decide, and that someone cannot be Glenn Greenwald.
I have added the emphasis. The fact is that, in conducting public business in the public interest, public institutions will produce information, not all of which can be immediately and appropriately disseminated to the public -- and in a democracy, the public allows a limited number of elected officials to provide mechanisms for safe-guarding this information. The deliberate division of government into independent federal, state, and local levels, and into independent legislative, judicial, and executive branches, produces different interests and inevitable conflicts that provide limits on anyone's power, and the frequency of elections ensures that no particular interest can dominate, unless the public allows that. Let us illustrate just a few of the issues we should discuss:
(A) It is sometimes good public policy to have government-owned hospitals that treat some sectors of the public. The patients then have legitimate privacy interests in the handling of their medical records. These privacy interests may be protected through a combination of statute, regulation, and institutional policy. Does anyone want to argue that any person, simply by calling himself a journalist, would thereby acquire a defensible right to publish any collection whatsoever of medical records provided to the "journalist" by a leaker? It seems to me that in such a case, what Kinsley says is generally true: Someone gets to decide, and in the final analysis that someone generally cannot be the journalist
(B) Some criminal investigations can be long drawn-out affairs, lasting many years. In a variety of situations, criminal investigators withhold information from the public for entirely legitimate reasons -- such as ensuring that detailed knowledge of a crime is actually evidence of participation or preventing certain individuals from fleeing the jurisdiction before a solid case develops, because the fugitives have discovered that they are investigative targets. Does anyone want to argue that any person, simply by calling himself a journalist, would thereby acquire a defensible right to publish any collection whatsoever of current investigative records provided to the "journalist" by a leaker? It seems to me that in such a case, what Kinsley says is generally true: Someone gets to decide, and in the final analysis that someone generally cannot be the journalist
(C) Personnel records of government employees can contain sensitive personal information, such as medical information associated with absences or lurid details of spurious allegations made against an employee. Employees may then have legitimate privacy interests in the handling of their personnel records. Does anyone want to argue that any person, simply by calling himself a journalist, would thereby acquire a defensible right to publish any collection whatsoever of personnel records provided to the "journalist" by a leaker? It seems to me that in such a case, what Kinsley says is generally true: Someone gets to decide, and in the final analysis that someone generally cannot be the journalist
(D) Contract negotiations often require bargaining with imperfect knowledge of another party's bargaining posture. Additional information can confer a significant bargaining advantage. This remains true when one party is a governmental agency engaged in bargaining with a private firm for a contract to provide goods or services. The agency has some obligation to tax-payers to obtain favorable terms, and the agency loses position if internal information about the agency's stance becomes available to the other party. So governmental agencies typically refuse to divulge some information to the public while contracts are sought and negotiated. Does anyone want to argue that any person, simply by calling himself a journalist, would thereby acquire a defensible right to publish any collection whatsoever of contract negotiation information provided to the "journalist" by a leaker while contracts are being sought or negotiated? It seems to me that in such a case, what Kinsley says is generally true: Someone gets to decide, and in the final analysis that someone generally cannot be the journalist
(E) Similar remarks apply to military matters. Military contingency planning and cryptographic work (for example) can lose value very quickly if the information becomes public. Does anyone really want to argue that any person, simply by calling himself a journalist, would thereby acquire a defensible right to publish any collection whatsoever of cryptographic information (say) provided to the "journalist" by a leaker? It seems to me that in such a case, what Kinsley says is generally true: Someone gets to decide, and in the final analysis that someone generally cannot be the journalist
All the outrage directed against Kinsley conveniently overlooks what I highlighted: ... No doubt the government will usually be overprotective of its secrets, and so the process of decision-making whatever it turns out to be should openly tilt in favor of publication ...
We know that the ability to hide facts can be used to hide both blunders and crimes, together with other questionable acts and shady deals. That's one reason Washington has always leaked like a sieve. And it's why the US almost never even tries to prosecute journalists: the attempt to do so will almost always be a political disaster. But we also have an ideal of the rule of law, according to which neither official nor outsider is declared free from the limits imposed by statute. Should our practice openly tilt in favor of publication? Of course, it should. But our control over outcomes should largely be handled by elections -- and we elect officials but do not elect journalists. Thus from a legal point of view, the decisions on what may be published, and what may not, are decisions made under law and regulation. The result, like so many "results" in our political system, is a teeter-tooter: the practice and the supposed legal framework tug back and forth, in a sort of permanent tension mediated by political forces
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)freedom fighter jh
(1,782 posts)The First Amendment prohibits laws that would limit freedom of the press. A law so broad that it would forbid the press to publish anything and everything classified surely would violate the First Amendment. Is there such a law? If there is, it should be challenged.
Snowden probably did break the law. But he was caught in a conflict: He felt he had to disclose the information he had as the only way he could fulfill his oath to uphold the Constitution.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Octafish
(55,745 posts)When most of America was waving a flag and calling for blood, Ted Rall stood up to Bush and War Inc.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0423-01.htm
When have you done that, SidDithers of DU?
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Fuck him and his racist ass.
Geez, you're on a roll this week. Promoting Paul Craig Roberts and now defending Ted Rall.
Sid
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)DesMoinesDem
(1,569 posts)Sid...is a joke.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)I think Ted Rall is full of shit.
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)A simple declarative statement isn't terribly persuasive.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Nobody in these threads are going to be persuaded to alter their opinion, ergo, the only purpose of these threads is to express your opinion and move on.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Any deflection from the NSAs unconstitutional spying on Americans.
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)one way or the other , but after reading Kinsley's review , I am tempted to download the book. Mr. Kinsley must be extremely anti- democracy if he believes journalists should only print what the government tells them to. My congressman grandfather is turning over in his grave right about now.
randome
(34,845 posts)He said Greenwald's contention that it is 'straight forward' to publish national security documents is bogus. It shows an extreme lack of self-reflection, IMO.
Greenwald may as well be a robotic Wikileaks, publishing anything he can get his hands on without regard to whether or not it's a good idea.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)The question is who decides. It seems clear, at least to me, that the private companies that own newspapers, and their employees, should not have the final say over the release of government secrets, and a free pass to make them public with no legal consequences. In a democracy (which, pace Greenwald, we still are), that decision must ultimately be made by the government.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/06/08/books/review/no-place-to-hide-by-glenn-greenwald.html?_r=0&referrer=
randome
(34,845 posts)There isn't even a 'right' to know what our government does. The only rights we have (other than those enumerated in the Bill of Rights and amendments to the Constitution) are to elect the people we trust to do the jobs for which we elected them.
That's how a representative democracy works. You don't like a representative? Un-elect him/her.
Ever since Ellsberg revealed the Pentagon papers, would-be journalists have daydreamed about being on his level. Imagining themselves in the hero's role of some dramatic, made-for-TV movie about nefarious forces arrayed against them.
Snowden's revelations do not even begin to approach that level. And Greenwald trying to milk this for all it's worth is both laughable and sad.
Yes, absent evidence on the level of the Pentagon Papers, our representatives should at the very least have a voice in what secrets are revealed. Anarchy, whether on the street or on the battleground of the printed page, should be a last resort.
We elected these representatives. To say their opinion doesn't count is to say our opinions don't count. It shows disdain for our choices. Which is ironic coming from someone hiding in Brazil. Or someone hiding in Russia. Or an Australian hiding in the Ecuadorian embassy.
We have lost touch with the fine art of protest. It's easier (lazier) to simply print whatever someone hands you rather than utilizing any sort of self-reflection. And that counts for protest?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Rall doesn't read the NYT Book Review very often, does he??
Who knew a simple book review could generate such a tidal wave of butthurt? The Times editors must be laughing their asses off at how much attention this has been getting...
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...on the protections historically enjoyed by journalists in this country.
For me, the key sentence in Kinsley's screed is this:
"There shouldnt be a special class of people called journalists with privileges like publishing secret government documents."
Huh? The law most certainly recognizes situations where journalistic privilege must be respected, as a matter of longstanding practice. To begin with, there's the First Amendment itself; and based on that, there's plenty of historical case law regarding issues like prior restraint and whether journalists can protect their sources (*). The fact that the Internet has changed things so that now it's hard to define who is a journalist and who is not, does not change our Constitution nor our existing body of law.
Anyway, that one sentence by itself made me realize that Kinsley's piece is not to be taken seriously. It was exactly like the Dick Gregory moment, where Gregory asked Greenwald To the extent that you have aided and abetted Snowden, . . . why shouldnt you, Mr. Greenwald, be charged with a crime?
In their eagerness to score cheap points, both Kinsley and Gregory gave themselves away as sycophants who get the vapors in the presence of actual journalism.
(*) As a general rule, journalists are allowed to protect their sources, even if the sources are suspected of criminal activity.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)Anyone who uses stolen government documents to cash in on books and movies is an opportunist and a scammer.
And who knows what else. He had contact with Snowden Before Snowden went to Booz and that looks mighty suspicious if you ask me. Greenwald has been caught in so many lies, it's ridiculous that some people still believe in his credibility. Snowden and Greenwald have become a Joke.
And I know why there is an OP calling anyone who uses Greenwald's initials homophobes. It's this:
so I did a little editing, and the feathers are ruffled and flying all over:
[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...and a scammer -- because he (gasp) writes books and makes money off of it -- regardless of your opinion of him, Greenwald meets any definition of journalist. Even if you, like Diane Feinstein, want to limit the title of "journalist" to "someone who gets a regular paycheck from a known journalistic entity" -- even then, he meets the criteria for "journalist": he has written for Salon, and has worked for the Guardian and now First Look Media. And, of course, along with Laura Poitras, he got a big scoop with the NSA papers, which took him directly into the big leagues of journalism... which seems to get a lot of people's panties / shorts in a wad... which I do find amusing, it must be admitted.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)The absolute loathing and hatred these guys inspire in some is eye-opening.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)He suckered Snowden and cashed in. Doesn't change the fact that he writes opinion and is not a journalist.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)Mahatma Gandhi had no "right" to rally Indians against British commercial monopolies, at least not under British imperial law.
Dr. Martin Luther King had no "right" to lead his fellow descendants of American slaves to sit in at segregated lunch counters, at least not in states that had enacted Jim Crow legislation.
And We, the People, have no "right" in a democracy to know what our government is doing with our tax dollars. The same government that lied us into a war in recent history. At least, not according to the government's laws.
randome
(34,845 posts)Gross violations of humanity is one of those exceptions, just as was publishing the Pentagon Papers.
None of that rises anywhere near the level of showing the world how we spy on other countries. Or 'revealing' a warrant we knew about since 2007.
Greenwald's contention is that he is a mere robot publishing whatever someone steals and puts into his hands. No self-reflection needed. Progressives ought to at least consider the public good. Greenwald has never expressed doubts. And someone who never has doubts is not to be trusted, IMO.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)I don't think the public good is served by a government that has been co-opted by an industrial/financial oligarchy to do its budding solely for its benefit. This, in spite of the fact that by advocating for an unsustainable environmental policy and a socio-economic policy precipitating vast inequality that can only be maintained by a police state, our Ivy League-educated captains of industry demonstrate daily that don't know what good for any of us, including themselves.
Far from considering the public good, the government is willing to wage imperialist wars, disguising them with false, altruistic justifications such as "bringing freedom to the Arabs" or "in the interests of our national security." The Iraq war was a war for oil. We all know that. PNAC published a paper advocating a military takeover of Iraq while Clinton was still in the White House. There is every reason to believe that our court-appointed president and his junta wanted to use the September 11 attacks to invade Iraq. Mr. Bush asked counter-terrorism chief Richard Clarke to "look into" the Iraqi connection to the attacks even while the fires in the Pentagon were still smoldering. Clarke protested, saying, as he had many times before, that Iraq had no active terrorist program. Mr. Bush just repeated his order. Osama bin Laden? Who's he? Afghanistan? Where's that? From the start, Mr. Bush and his co-conspirators wanted to use the attacks not as a reason to go after al Qaida but as an excuse to invade Iraq.
If anyone had classified documents prior to invading Iraq that the decision had been made to invade that country at any opportunity, then wouldn't that person deserve a medal for leaking them? I think he would.
I believe your idea of a representative democracy is lacking in its concern for the representatives to represent the voters who put them into office. If they are allowing the administration to lie about something so fundamental as going to war, then they are not representatives of the people, but co-conspirators in a crime. We have a right to know that.
The beauty of the American system of government is in its respect for openness and fair play. Where in the Constitution is there sanction for a secret court like FISA? Why should any part of any law be classified? How is an individual to know that the action he is contemplating is illegal if the law is not public? Every citizen has a right to know what the law says. To try anyone for violating a classifified statute in a secret court is, in and of itself, a violation of constitutionally guaranteed due process.
To gather the "metadata" of all electronic communications inside the US is, in and of itself, a violation a the right of all Americans from unreasonable searches seizures. If the government thinks I've been plotting to overthrow it, then the US Attorney can get warrant and read my e-mail.
If the courts decide otherwise, I still disagree. The courts have come up with come very strange decisions as of late: Corporations are people, money is speech and the if the wind blows genetically modified seed on to a farm field that takes root, then the farmer who owns that field has an implied contract with Monsanto and that the farmer is in breach of that contract. That the courts are making such decisions nowadays is an indication that American society is corrupt form top to bottom, and that it has been corrupted from the top down.
Therefore, Mr. Snowden and Mr. Greenwald are right to reveal to the public how corrupt that big business and the government are. Perhaps it is illegal for them to do so, but what part of civil disobedience do you not understand?
randome
(34,845 posts)And if someone could have proven that Bush, Junior and his handlers were lying, I would very much have applauded them stealing the evidence and publishing it. That's one of those 'gross violations' that deserves all the light it can get.
There is no doubt that our representatives do not always have our best interests at heart. To put it mildly for some.
But why do Snowden and Greenwald get to represent us when no one requested it? Why do they get to short-change the decision-making all of us have invested in the people we elected?
I don't agree with you about the metadata collection being a bad thing but I understand that viewpoint. What I don't understand is anyone who thinks this is an 'egregious violation' that rises to the level of civil rights or that diplomatic incidents and lost law enforcement opportunities are to be sacrificed on the altar of 'revealing' something we've known about since 2007.
Technically speaking, it is not a violation of rights because third-party business records are not considered our personal effects.
It was never worth all this turmoil, in my opinion. These guys want to make a case? They should have done so. The reason Snowden ran is likely because he wasn't sure the American public would be firmly behind him. And if he had any uncertainty, he should not have stolen and run. Instead, he thought he could sway the minds of the electorate by putting on a show of being on the run. When no one forced him to run but himself.
I'm not sure where the 'corruption' part comes from. A legal warrant mandating third-party business records? They don't even need a warrant for those, you know.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Sometimes it seems like the only purpose in life is to keep your car from touching another's.[/center][/font][hr]
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)And though the collection of phone call records continued with warrants through FISC. There seems to be a great discrepancy in some people are convinced warrants issued to provider companies for the company records to be provided is nit legal. Warrants are issued to companies many times. The provider records does not belong to the user of the services. Wiretapping apparently occurred during the Bush Administration but ended before he left office with warrants being issued through FISC and also wiretapping can be ordered through local courts and does occur.
pa28
(6,145 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)At least since 1999 that I know of.
G_j
(40,367 posts)Here's an understatement: Glenn Greenwald's new book No Place Left to Hide is not making some in the elite media very happy.
In a review in the New York Times, Michael Kinsley writes that Greenwald is a "self-righteous sourpuss" and NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden has the "conspiratorial worldview of a precocious teenager.
But it's not just that Kinsley doesn't like them. He doesn't like this kind of journalism. According to the Times review, media companies
should not have the final say over the release of government secrets, and a free pass to make them public with no legal consequences. In a democracy
that decision must ultimately be made by the government.
It's a perfect illustration of a worldview--so prevalent in elite media and politics--that Greenwald's book challenges head-on: Media's job is to tell people what the government decides they need to know.
And that's why we think you'll appreciate his book. Support FAIR's work to fight elite media bias with a donation of $50 or more and we'll send you a copy of No Place Left to Hide, Greenwald's explosive account of the Edward Snowden story.
The book guides readers through every facet of the story--from Greenwald's first contact with the NSA whistleblower to the waves of media coverage that followed.
The biggest journalistic scoop in years happened because a whistleblower went to an independent journalist. He didn't trust the story with the New York Times. It sure seems like he made the right decision.
For over 25 years FAIR has shown you why you can't trust the corporate media.