Racism, Sexism and Homophobia get worse when we don't call them out

[CreekDog]

The victories for equality and against prejudice were fought for and continue to be, they didn't occur because of some natural evolution.

-Remember, Jim Crow laws happened after our country fought a war to end slavery.

-In response to growing acceptance of the GLBT community, there were numerous laws passed to actually reduce their already limited rights and protections under the law. That's right, in recent decades, it got worse, well before things got better.

-How long were Jewish people in Europe before the Holocaust happened?

-Increasingly, in somewhat similar tones as happened (and happens) to the Jewish people, we're seeing references to "Asians" as the "model minority", and the stereotyping of many success stories among Asian immigrants and their descendants. I read here just last week that "Asians excel at math". These are stereotypes no better than things said by Jimmy The Greek decades ago.

-Our own Japanese-American citizens were put in camps by our government, then their homes and possessions left behind were ransacked or taken by their fellow Americans, all while our nation was fighting in World War 2.

-In South Africa, "Apartheid" was created and made increasingly harsh over decades in the 20th century.

-In the USA, the attempt at "assimilation" of our Indigenous Peoples happened during the midst of the Civil Rights movement.

-In the USA,the number of "hate groups" has increased, not decreased during the Obama presidency.

-There is this thought (which I've only heard from my fellow white folks) that if we stop responding to racism or talking about it, that it will go away, almost naturally... (many of them say, "like it already is doing...&quot .

-That's wrong. People who have the luxury of forgetting, don't realize that the battle against the -isms is being fought by those who aren't opposed to them.

-Martin Luther King, Jr. said he wanted a colorblind society, not a society blind to racism.

As liberals who pay attention, we all know that not only must we fight for progress, we have to protect the previous gains too.

If you see such things, you really should respond to them, difficult as that is to do, it is how things become socially unacceptable. And racism and sexism and homophobia should become socially unacceptable, and finally, there is progress on these fronts.

Call it out, do what you can to oppose it. With this caveat: juries here will often hide posts which correctly call out racism or sexism. You may risk your membership here if you do that here. But understand that in response to racism, sexism and homophobia, the only civil response is intolerance. It is UNCIVIL to be silent or polite.

Progress is not automatic. Tolerance is a battle the other side is fighting against.

Take risks for progress, after all, much of the awareness and tolerance of younger generations are because older folks were continually fighting years ago to make it that way *now*.

[etherealtruth]

1. K and R, great post!

[bettyellen]

2. I think the issue for many is they'd prefer to be complacent about it...

Much easier to scribble off angry screeds about spying and corruption that people mostly agree with than actually call people out or try to level a playing field in real life.

They'd prefer to keep blinders on, and let crude ignorant remarks about watermelon and "black crime" pass without causing a stir. They ignore ill behavior all the time because it's easier. Must preserve their spot at the cool kids table at all costs.

[CreekDog]

3. if African Americans, women and the GLBT community leave in response

then DU juries will be even less likely to hide intolerant posts (it's bad enough already).

and our GLBT numbers are already well down from what they were prior to the purge.

[bettyellen]

5. I honestly feel like quite a few people here see that as a win. I think that we have been skewing

libertarian and it's a natural result of letting them fly over the radar, and set new standards here. Well, I wouldn't call it standards so much as drowning DU in a bathtub.

[CreekDog]

6. Some see it as a win

But surely some key people see it as a loss.

But maybe first they have to see it in the first place.

And not through a lens of privilege. I'm white, it's quite easy for me to ignore racism, I have that luxury because for the most part, I don't have to watch out for racism to live my daily life successfully.

[JI7]

4. the thing is that they don't just ignore or not participate, but they are dismissive of

it when others bring up these issues. they don't even wanted it posted and talked about.

they see them as distractions or the problem .

[bettyellen]

7. today I saw a poster basically blame feminists for it all, the prior post I had seen- angry

about the Asian thread. I asked how they felt if that was an every day thing?

[TDale313]

8. Is it contradictory of me...

To very much agree with your statement, but also agree with the general idea that name calling is counterproductive and a bad idea? I don't think so, in so far as I don't view calling out racism, sexism and/or homophobia as name calling. But found myself in the odd position of agreeing with your post and much of the post I think this was in response to.

[Shandris]

9. I was warned once long ago to be careful of the desire to 'call out' people...

...because it leads to self-righteousness and a sense of superiority. It's a narcissist's tool, when used poorly, and it's often difficult to know when it's being used poorly.

But with that in mind, I don't have a problem with pointing out -obvious- cases of individual sexism or racism or homophobia. Instead of approaching it as a 'call out', like some kind of social shaming mechanism (because I think social shaming is a foul, repugnant thing that should be extirpated from the human race), it should be engaged as a teaching opportunity imo. 'Calling out' does -nothing- but make you feel better about yourself. Educating someone (and regardless of what Tumblr-folk like to say, it -is- our job to educate people) is a worthwhile endeavor.

It's a long post to basically say 'I agree', but...I get touchy over certain prevailing thoughts, and 'call out'/social shaming is a big one.

[RainDog]

10. I think you and others are well meaning

but I also think people here jump to too many conclusions and think that everyone here as the same information about other posters - when this is obviously false because people are here for different amounts of time depending on the day or week, etc.

in addition, I don't agree that "calling out" is necessarily the best way to deal with one person or another - and, in fact, people have "called me out" for things I never did - but they seemed to have assumed I had done them.

So how many people are alienated by that sort of thing here?

for instance - I never read the watermelon thread. in another thread where people were insulting one another, I said something to the effect of "can't we all get alone" and people on different sides of ANOTHER issue entirely, as far as I understood it, where getting in their shots.

so, why do I want to participate on DU when that is what happens - OFTEN - when someone - not me, walks into a thread and has NO IDEA person A and person B have such and such history, etc?

DU is not my job. I come here for discussion and news.

When I see something egregious I note it. I don't agree with people on particulars of some things even when I agree on broader terms of x or y issue - so, when someone who is ostensible "on your side" insults, etc. - you know - it's all too much sometimes when someone has big issues they have to deal with irl and come here to be among others who are interested in similar topics.

I also think people troll here from both the left and right - and some of those trolling from the left may actually be on the right - and just hijack threads with one monotonous cliche over and over. but maybe that's not what's going on - again, I need a scorecard that different people here can hand over to let me know what the current consensus is on x or y person.

A LOT OF PEOPLE here don't pay attention to particular personalities unless they have a negative interaction - they don't see everything that goes on.

I hide threads and ignore people who haven't personally offended me but I'm not interested in seeing what they have to say - which is one way it is possible to tailor this site to make it more "efficient" for people to come here - you know you don't want to get an update on barking dog down the hall, etc.

Sometimes interactions are so negative here some people (like me) decide to focus on an issue that accomplishes goals I am interested in (racial equality, a decrease in authoritarian govt, general interest in social change issues) - but I am supposed to apologize for not spending my time when I am here scouting this entire discussion forum to root out those whose opinions I don't share - or whom I consider trolls?

That's not going to work for many people. I am about to start work on something - that I thought was going to happen a month or so ago - and I won't be here as often b/c I won't be doing work that let's me switch between procrastination and sudden attention to what I actually need to do... so... okay.

I call out things here that I see that are problematic. But it's really not possible to know every grievance that has occurred. Many of us are not in constant private contact with others here...we choose to be somewhat removed from DU in that way to try not to become part of a clique, etc.

All that just to say - those who are "policing" this site need to understand that not everyone has their same experiences here and not everyone thinks it's worthwhile to keep track of every post by someone they don't generally agree with anyway.

Why don't those who see these sorts of things - if they are not handled as others would like - ignore members they find offensive and simply let their posts drop into oblivion rather than stand for days? That's also a way to deal with situations - by not giving attention-seekers the attention they seek.

Just putting this out here so that people can realize not everyone has your same knowledge and they won't, no matter how much others try to say "this person is doing this" repeatedly.

I think, for what you want to be successful, DU would have to have paid (or note) moderators with shifts to keep track of what's happening. DU isn't my job - it's my source of news and a place where I keep an "archive" on a topic of interest to me that also makes those things available here for others if they want to access them.