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De Leonist

(225 posts)
Thu May 8, 2014, 03:24 PM May 2014

With regards to priviledge and affluenza....

Last edited Thu May 8, 2014, 04:49 PM - Edit history (1)

I thought a great deal before posting this but I think perhaps as someone from a, comparatively speaking, very priviledged backround who spent most of his developmental years associating with people who came from much more deprived(When I say deprived I do mean deprived. I spent most of my childhood and adolescence in special education facilities. Many of my classmates came from very abusive homes and were dealing with substantive amounts of emotional trauma) circumstances than my own I thought perhaps this might give be able to some folks a few things to chew on that they might not have otherwise considered with regards to priviledge and affluenza.

The fact is privledge is real, but it's not necessarily white priviledge anymore that is the most insidious form. Rather instead it is, as one particular poster I believe termed it, green priviledge or priviledge derived from being born into family with a relatively high socio-economic status. This "green priviledge" can and does lead to the "condition" of Affluenza. Now for many I'm sure this not a particularly new idea. But here's what many are not always aware of. Those of us who are born into Upper-Middle Class and Upper Class families are particularly sensitive to discussions of privledge. Since from a young age we are aware that we have, for whatever reason, far more access to things that people want than the rest of our peers.

We are also particularly sensitive to it because our peers in childhood seem to almost hold it against us, at least that is how it feels. When we first become aware of this feeling that our peers seem to have at times we don't honestly know how to handle it and our parents don't always know how to hand it either. So a lot of us never really end up resolving that sense of antagonism from others born to less priviledged circumstances. We also tend form this impression in our minds that, wrongly or rightly, people hold it against us unfairly because we ourselves did not choose to be born into priviledge. Than when we attempt to vent or express our frustrations to less affluent peers growing up our feelings are often immediately invalidated as inconsequential. It does honestly feel as if they think we never have or ever will experience any real struggles in life, this can hurt. Especially since at times our less affluent peers in childhood wish to take advantage of that same priviledge. So we often become distrustful of those who grow up in middle class and working class families. This distrust can and does often stay with us well into adulthood. Another factor is that it is not uncommon to be taught from a young age that because of our families' affluence that we are somehow more capable of making intelligent decisions than others in society. Thanks to this we can form a very classicist view with regards to our peers that do not come from money.

Maybe most importantly, or not, we hear things said about us at times that really do just come from a place of ignorance. The Majority of us aren't going to inherit massive amounts of money(a number of don't really end up inheriting anything) or have trustfunds or simply have the keys to the CEO office handed over to us once our father or mother dies. Workplace Nepotism in rich families isn't anywhere near as common as people seem to think it is either. Why, because it can hurt the bottom line and I tell you now the bottom line IS sacrosanct. Now it might be true that a particular son or daughter or other young family member that shows potential and has the proper skillset for a particular position might be given a chance. But if this person can't do the job they will be fired just as quickly, if not quicker in some cases, as anyone else. Also this preconceived notion that I have observed in some people that all CEOs are at the very least millionaires who don't pay their fair share in taxes quite frankly isn't true. Most CEOs in this country make six or five figure salaries, not seven figures and actually yes a great deal of that is taxed at the federal, state and local levels before the person even has a chance to spend it. Often they only ever see half their income in their hands after taxes. Nor can they afford to hire a battalion of lawyers to keep from paying that much in taxes. So for the majority of CEOs constantly hearing how their supposed trying to evade taxes when their own taxes have ended up rising considerably in the past 6 years can be quite irksome.

Now having all that said yes I realize that a large swath of American Workers are lucky if they can even make rent right now. I'm not trying to make it seem as if a CEO being taxed to the point of watching half his income slip out of his hands is even remotely equivalent to a Single Mother working Day and Night Shifts in a warehouse or at a retail store struggling to feed, clothe, and shelter her children. Rather what I'm trying to do is give some people who might not have otherwise considered it why so many people who come from an affluent backround can be so overly defensive in general with regards to discussions of affluence, income, and poverty. Contrary to the stereotypes we're not all petty, overly materialistic, patricianesque assholes who've had everything handed to us from day one. Yet many in the media and Hollywood make it sound as it we all do is sit around eating caviar talking about what other ways can we screw over the poor. But we don't, for the most part we have the same conversations as anyone else. The Majority of the Affluent in this country don't want to cause undue suffering to complete strangers anymore than anyone else does. Than you the fact that a great many of us have actually had to struggle with things the same as anyone else. I don't deny that many us do have oppurtunities and advantages that most people don't get but that doesn't mean we can always take advantage of them anytime we like. In fact a lot of them are one time deals and even than it's not like there isn't risk for us if we fail to meet the expectations that often come with these oppurtunities.

At this point I also feel I should point out that even if you are born into an affluent family that doesn't always mean that your family will automatically extend the same level of help to you that they might have extended to your siblings or even cousins even if they are financially capable of doing so. I have actually meant people who come from families far more affluent than mine that because of one thing or another they were the Jon Snows of their family. These people were essentially told that they should consider themselves lucky to be even gifted some modest funding for trade school or community college. This is something else a lot of people seem to have misconceptions about. The idea that affluent families are all smiles and rainbows. Wealth doesn't stop you from having asshole parents or douchebag family members anymore than anything else does.

Now having said all this let me expand on my diatribe with these following statements. I'm not a champagne socialist or some over priviledged college student that somehow thinks he knows better than working people about the very issues that face them. So please save whatever accusations any of you might have of me living such a sheltered existence that I couldn't possibly know what the world is like for most people. Whatever my life experiences maybe I've seen and experienced my fair share of hardship, suffering, and pain. In fact this is one of the major things that causes the great divide between those who were born to affluence and those who weren't. The idea that coming from affluence somehow always saves you from all the really shitty things life can throw at you. It can act as a cushion at times. But when rich man's mother dies it hurts just as much as when a poor man's mother dies. Same thing with a whole host of issues. For instance having an abusive alcoholic parent is painful both emotionally and physically no matter what level of the socio-economic pyramid you were born on. When it comes down to it people we're just as human as you are with all that entails. A lot of us just wish you'd realize that and stop thinking that we automatically think of you as our social inferiors. Lastly, it is true though that a number of people born to affluence whether that is upper middle class or upper class don't ever really stop being defensive about being born into priviledge and because of this become resentful and immediately shut themselves off to anyone who questions that same priviledge.

Before I finish I feel I should state that I don't see the criticism of the affluent have been seeing since 2008 as not being legitimate. Far from it, I myself find the levels of priviledge present in both the upper class upper middle class to be completely unnecessary. I'm actually for things like Unions, Minimum Wage Increase, Quality publicly funded education, Pay Caps for CEOs, and I'm an outright anti-capitalist. Mostly because I know what Business Culture in this country does to a person's outlook. Because of my Autism I have never had the capacity for salesmanship or business that many in my family have and thus have been able to escape the mental trap that seems to envelope the mind of people who grew up in families like mine.

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With regards to priviledge and affluenza.... (Original Post) De Leonist May 2014 OP
All those words, Sheldon Cooper May 2014 #1
wtf De Leonist May 2014 #7
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Tierra_y_Libertad May 2014 #2
Can I ask what specifically your trying to say ? De Leonist May 2014 #11
I prefer to see people as individuals regardless of class. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2014 #18
I don't disagree with that. De Leonist May 2014 #19
So then pray tell... MicaelS May 2014 #13
How about the best people regardless of class? Tierra_y_Libertad May 2014 #17
What the hell did I just read? JaneyVee May 2014 #3
Some good thoughts here. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #4
While you have some good observations, one thing I would feel remiss if I didn't point out... Shandris May 2014 #5
Again not what I'm saying De Leonist May 2014 #8
I have no disagreement with that. Shandris May 2014 #9
What? "Especially since at times our less affluent peers in childhood wish to take advantage.... bettyellen May 2014 #6
For the third time not what I'm trying to say.... De Leonist May 2014 #10
perhaps you could use some of your advantage to learn about writing, spellcheck and paragraphs would bettyellen May 2014 #12
Glad you got the gist.... De Leonist May 2014 #20
anything more than 5-6 lines in a paragraph is too hard to read. not sure why, but bettyellen May 2014 #21
Blame the Sam Adams De Leonist May 2014 #24
tell Sam I said Hey- See ya soon! LOL bettyellen May 2014 #25
It starts with white privilege Supersedeas May 2014 #14
There is an old street saying... MicaelS May 2014 #15
Oh fer crying out loud De Leonist May 2014 #22
Cool story bro! XRubicon May 2014 #16
Isn't it? tenderfoot May 2014 #23

De Leonist

(225 posts)
7. wtf
Thu May 8, 2014, 05:03 PM
May 2014

What pray tell do I not get ?

Perhaps you should re read what I'm saying. If anything I'm quite sure I get it as it's not like I'm rolling in the doe myself right now. I'm dealing with of my own economic hardships presently as well. So take your knee-jerkery else as what I was trying to do was explain WHY others who share my backround may not get it.

De Leonist

(225 posts)
11. Can I ask what specifically your trying to say ?
Thu May 8, 2014, 06:13 PM
May 2014

I've seen the quote elsewhere and while I agree with it's premise I'm not actually clear what your point is in posting it. I'm not espousing class rule of any kind. But rather trying to describe how coming that level of priviledge shapes you as a person and how it affects your view on people who come from other socio-economic classes.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
4. Some good thoughts here.
Thu May 8, 2014, 03:53 PM
May 2014

And to be honest, there is still a very real social disparity between the "races", as it were. I don't think anyone disputes that. But too often, we seem to rather excessively downplay, even if not intentionally, the effect of class on American society in general; and that's unfortunate because I think we could really gain a rather more substantial audience if we could get our acts together in this regard.

 

Shandris

(3,447 posts)
5. While you have some good observations, one thing I would feel remiss if I didn't point out...
Thu May 8, 2014, 04:04 PM
May 2014

...is that no one is saying you can't feel certain things because you're affluent; its that, in the course of experiencing those things, you have a whole lot less of it to worry about. So as you rightly point out, both affluent and poor can lose their mother; the difference is, you're not going to worry about how much your trashed credit rating is going to prevent you from getting a burial, or how you're going to handle travelling to the funeral/paying for someone to take care of the children and pets while you're gone/etc. Those are all covered by virtue of being affluent.

It's not that pain can't strike; its that the attendant pains that come with it are ameliorated or relieved entirely by a simple application of money - an option most don't have and never will, no matter what they do.

De Leonist

(225 posts)
8. Again not what I'm saying
Thu May 8, 2014, 05:22 PM
May 2014

I am not saying that being affluent doesn't bring with it a good amount(and certainly an unfair amount) of security in many ways or that normal people actually think that we shouldn't be able to feel certain things. But rather what it feels like from that side of the grass and that contrary to some peoples' misconceptions (honestly not pointing at you or anyone who has posted on this thread so far)that we actually are far more like you than we are different.

 

Shandris

(3,447 posts)
9. I have no disagreement with that.
Thu May 8, 2014, 05:43 PM
May 2014

I've known some affluent (relative to my area of the country, the midwest) people in my time and I don't have any problem with saying there are good and bad among them, just like any other person or type of people. The thrust of your article was good, and the point isn't lost on me. While I do feel a certain amount of resentment towards the more generic, stereotypical grouping of 'the rich', I do always try to judge people individually on their own merits.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
6. What? "Especially since at times our less affluent peers in childhood wish to take advantage....
Thu May 8, 2014, 04:12 PM
May 2014

....of that same privledge. So we often become distrustful of those who grow up in middle class and working class families. "

Is that because they'd actually like some of the same things you were given? A fee ride to college or a car? Thise are not the small things you seem to think they are.

De Leonist

(225 posts)
10. For the third time not what I'm trying to say....
Thu May 8, 2014, 06:05 PM
May 2014

In that statement I was not talking about college or a car or other things you seem to think I consider small(Tell me where the fuck did I once minimize the experiences of those grow up with out priviledge instead stating part of what makes those who have priviledge sensitive to talking about it or why it makes them distrustful). I was talking about how if you talk to people who grew up considerably more affluent than others around them one common experience is that in childhood(that being the key phrase here) many of your friends will often ask you for money (whether your parents ever give you an allowance or not) or constantly wanting to come over and play with your toys. That can feel like the only reason they want to be friends with you is for the material benefits not because they actually think your worth being friends with. That is want can cause that distrust to occur. Also yes I realized that from a young age most people would have liked to have the advantages I had at that age. But what you may not be realizing is that what I'm trying to say is that most of us aren't or weren't actually unaware enough not to have realized that very early in life. In fact in my experience the more affluent a person is the likely they are to be hyper aware of their own priviledge. Also I'm not saying that people don't have legitimate causes to wish to have had what I had growing up. But I am saying that people not from the that backround can have misconceptions about just easy we actually get it. Tell me is that a particularly irrational statement on my part ? The idea that people who've never had certain experiences might have a hard time having an accurate understanding of those experiences. You see this is the type of stuff I am actually talking about. I am not saying that Wealth doesn't make things easier or that people don't have good reasons to wish to have had that level of priviledge. But rather that many people have misconceptions about what it is actually like to have had that level of priviledge and that number of us who grew up with that level of priviledge end up becoming antagonized when we constantly hear those misconceptions on tv or from people we know and that is why so many of us from that sort of backround do not like conversations about wealth, affluence, income or poverty. I am not bitching about how hard it is to have had priviledge but rather stating how dealing with peoples' preconceived notions of that sort upbringing at an early age can those from a priviledge backround. Lastly, I'm not saying that I am distrustful of people who do not come from priviledged backrounds. But rather why some with priviledge are.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
12. perhaps you could use some of your advantage to learn about writing, spellcheck and paragraphs would
Thu May 8, 2014, 06:14 PM
May 2014

have helped make whatever that is you posted more readable.

But I got the gist, wealthy are afraid someone wants a piece of theirs, they are uncomfortable discussing privledge exactly because they know they have it, and they know it is unfair. And some resent others for wanting the things they got on a silver platter, don't know who their true friends are, can't trust poorer people. Got it, thanks.

De Leonist

(225 posts)
20. Glad you got the gist....
Thu May 8, 2014, 06:56 PM
May 2014

Apologies for the poor composition. I can usually write my points fairly well but today I've been tossing back a few and well when that happens my ability to spell or construct paragraphs worth a damn tends to go out the window.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
21. anything more than 5-6 lines in a paragraph is too hard to read. not sure why, but
Thu May 8, 2014, 07:02 PM
May 2014

you seem to lose your place or repeat reading some lines.

De Leonist

(225 posts)
24. Blame the Sam Adams
Thu May 8, 2014, 07:09 PM
May 2014

I don't drink often and well when I do my ability type a coherent sentence, paragraph, or articles kinda goes down the shitter.

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
15. There is an old street saying...
Thu May 8, 2014, 06:34 PM
May 2014
Life is like a shit sandwich. The more bread you have, the less shit you have to eat.

I am not going to feel sorry for for the affluent. And your and their claims of being oppressed ring hollow. Money can buy a great deal of security. The affluent who are in a financial corner, are often there of their own choosing. They do not need to send their children to expensive private schools, provide personalized music, dance or athletic lessons. They do not need to own more than one home, since they can only live in one at a time. Or own yachts or private jets. They are trying to keep up with their peers.

The simple question to ask of the affluent is this: "Would you change places with a working class person?"

De Leonist

(225 posts)
22. Oh fer crying out loud
Thu May 8, 2014, 07:05 PM
May 2014

Where the fuck did I say I want you to feel sorry for them ?! or that they are oppressed ?! I mean fuck my composition skills may not be the best right now but I'm pretty sure my reading comprehension is a damn sight better when I'm tipsy than yours is when your sober. You completely missed the point. Now I did say they can be misunderstood and that people can have misconceptions. That is not the same thing as saying you feel sorry for them or that they are oppressed.

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