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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJesus... Fucking... Christ !!! - 'School Bans Disabled Girl From Using Walker' - MSNBC
School Bans Disabled Girl From Using WalkerBy Linda Carroll - MSNBC
3/29/12
<snip>
Kristi Roberts was stunned when school officials insisted that her disabled 5-year-old daughter switch to a wheelchair from the walker shed been using for the previous two years. Little LaKay had battled cerebral palsy and epilepsy since she was born, and Kristi had worked hard to get her little girl up out of the wheel chair and walking she couldnt believe that the school was now taking away their hard-earned progress.
Kristi explained her position to NBCs Janet Shamlian.
If she can walk now, please let her walk, Kristi said. Dont strap her in a wheelchair. Weve worked so hard. She has worked so hard.
When Kristi tried to make her case, officials from the New Caney Independent School District werent moved. They insisted that because LaKay had fallen down in the schools parking lot when she was with her mom it wasnt safe for the little girl to use a walker.
The Texas mom wasnt going to take no for an answer. She recorded a conversation with a school official (with his knowledge) and then posted the conversation on YouTube for the world to hear:
When Kristi pushed for an explanation, the official got huffy and responded derisively, Were gonna not do what the mother wants us to do be sure to get this on tape.
Kristi was astounded. I am a parent and you are an employee thats supposed to be an advocate for this child, she said. And from day one, you have not.
The school official wasnt budging.
<snip>
Link: http://moms.today.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/29/10910817-school-bans-disabled-girl-from-using-walker
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)they're gonna get sued under both the ADA and IDEA. Count on it.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)anti-alec
(420 posts)The school is dead wrong in this.
If they are receiving federal/state money (who receives federal money), they they have to comply with the ADA laws.
If LaKay is happy with her walker, and wants to use it - by all means, let her! She is comfortable with her choice.
Do NOT force her to sit on a wheelchair because it's "convenient" to the school - kids comes first, not the school.
No wonder why the school will lose a LOT more they can afford by getting a lawsuit, and a simple accomodation request is followed would have saved the school and its district millions of wasted taxpayer dollars.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)d_r
(6,907 posts)IDEA the school has to allow parental input in the IEP. They are being antagonistic.
liberalhistorian
(20,818 posts)have advised them of that, especially regarding IDEA requirements, which particularly apply here. HOWEVER, they also have a point. If the child does fall while on school property, they are liable for that and they have no guarantee that they will not be sued for it. So they're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)If they are 100% ADA compliant re: architectural barriers they should have nothing to worry about. The personal responsibility for what happens when she leaves her home to enjoy an education in a building that is required by law to be architecturally friendly has been claimed by the girl and her family. Just as with kids who do not have disabilities and don't require architectural accommodations.
If they are afraid that they are not in compliance, there is a whole other can of worms lurking.
The decision was arrived at by this childs special education team was that the child would be evaluated further and that there would be more information forthcoming from her private physicians and therapists to make sure she was being served safely and appropriately before the use of the walker continued, said the districts attorney, Paula Roalson.
Okay, they asked for a medical clearance for the walker to be used without braces. The decision was made by the team, and the final decision is pending based on medical information.
She might be able to use the walker sometimes but then not at others, especially if she is tired or has a mild illness. Apparently she has recently discarded braces, which might be a factor.
The mother's done a superb job, but the school environment does represent some dangers, and the issue of fatigue concerns me too. You don't want her back in the wheelchair, you also don't want her potentially to fall and be trampled, and you don't want her so tired that she doesn't get the full benefit of the classroom experience.
I wouldn't presume the school is being reckless or disregarding the child's welfare. If the school asked for a clearance from the child's primary physician, isn't that reasonable? The video shows a child who isn't always able to use the walker that well.
Gosh that kid is cute!
I just don't think it is unreasonable for the school to ask for a medical opinion. Schools ask for such opinions all the time. Why should there be any delay in getting it?
zbdent
(35,392 posts)all the time to a power wheelchair (which we had bought with our own money at a yard sale, not medically required).
He didn't exactly come out and say that he was afraid she'd fall and have workman's comp issues, but we knew why ...
Confusious
(8,317 posts)But it's also society and how sue happy they are.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)as does IDEA, the Indioviduals with Disabilities Education Act. Both give LaKay the right to accommodations she needs to attend school just like any other child, in this case, a walker.
Most public schools are in deep, deep denial when it comes to this issue. Never mind that IDEA has been the law of the land since the '70s.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)And before you get mad, let me explain how this should go.
Step 1. This school should recognize that kids w/o walkers fall sometimes
Step 2. This school should recognize that kids in wheelchairs also fall sometimes
Step 3. Two things are needed: Physician's recommendations and school based PT recommendations
Step 4. Kid uses the walker in the recommended areas and a wheelchair in the recommended areas.
How do I know this? Cuz' we just did this same process in my public school and guess what? No muss, no fuss. Parent, child, school, all are fine.
This is likely driven by an administrator who doesn't know or care to involve the child's school based team. So before you label "most" public schools as being in denial, think of some other possible reasons for this.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)hopefully things are different in Michigan, but in California and especially Hawai'i, the bad schools outnumber the good ones.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)and never should be about "schools". This is about a bad call by an administrator. And I've seen many of those, usually out of ignorance, sometimes out of bias.
I work with a child who uses this particular walker. We do provide an adult guide when he is moving around. But its not possible to prevent falls. It is possible to protect against them and that is what is done. Kids with these walkers tend to want to use it to run or move with the walker as fast as they can. They are kids afterall and they think its fun. For that reason could be the child needs some limits too but that's what schools are for!
LWolf
(46,179 posts)in CA and OR, have taught in large and small districts and schools, and didn't find any "bad schools."
A few bad administrators at the site level. More bad administrators at the district level. Why? Because bad admins often get booted out of schools into the D.O. to get them away from students.
Admins aren't schools. Thankfully, ALL the admins, good, bad, and in-between, that I have worked for over the decades complied with the law.
In CA, I did find districts to be very concerned about law suits. They were always worried about the bottom line with legal insurance premiums, and were pretty restrictive in what they'd allow, or not.
That's not exactly a surprise in the world of perpetual budget cuts.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)I don't want this mother to have to give up her progress, but the ADA is about access, not the means.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)to take part in PE classes--with appropriate accommodation. And that is a subject area for her personal IEP. Unless the school has prepared some verification (medical, PT) of her needs, they are open to a hearing for not providing the child's free and appropriate public education (FAPE). Hearings are expensive. Rational discussion with a parent and medical verification is generally cheap and effective.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)I remember dodge ball, swimming, climbing ropes.
How is someone who can't walk without a walker suppose to do that?
Sounds like you've got a lawsuit looking for a cause there.
I feel sorry for the girl, but I also understand the schools position, which you just justified by giving and example of an unreasonable lawsuit.
Reasonable is wheelchair access. unreasonable is your example.
phylny
(8,380 posts)She wouldn't necessarily play dodge ball or climb ropes, but she's a lot more mobile with a walker than she would be with a chair. In addition, her muscles would likely become weaker if she was placed in a chair, hindering any future progress.
I'm not a PT, but I'm a ST who works with lots of kids with disabilities, and I have been in lots of IEP meetings. The administrator who we heard on the tape is going to lead himself and his school district into some deep doo doo.
I've seen folks be far more mobile and move faster in a wheelchair than I've ever seen from someone with a walker.
That being said, I still side with the girl.
phylny
(8,380 posts)In a wheelchair, either she's only using her arms if she's propelling herself, or she's using no muscles at all, except for those that keep her upright in the core of her body.
That doesn't make her more mobile.
Am I more mobile on a motorcycle or on foot? On foot, I use more muscle power but that does not make me more mobile.
phylny
(8,380 posts)Educators and especially her parents, doctors, and therapists need to be concerned about her total development. Part of that development is working to help her achieve to the best of her potential, cognitively, physically, and emotionally. She might be faster in a chair, but she could be sacrificing future mobility, strength, and her overall musculoskeletal development may be compromised. You may be faster and arguably more mobile on a motorcycle, but if you are child in perpetual growth, if your PT and physician have prescribed a walker, then it's in the child's best interest to follow the plan of care, unless you're a school system that can't be bothered.
SATIRical
(261 posts)In general I agree with the overall development, but you have to also consider the academic side. If she is exhausted from using the walker to go from class to class, or it takes a long time so she misses some of each class, then that hurts her overall.
They need to look at the entire big picture. Remember, she can get the physical part after hours at home.
phylny
(8,380 posts)The context of the part of my statement you refer to is, "She wouldn't necessarily play dodge ball or climb ropes, but she's a lot more mobile with a walker than she would be with a chair."
I would rather leave the decision of her exhaustion or lack of it to the Physical Therapist, her special educator, and her physician. If they restrict her, that's one thing. If the school is restricting her in case she falls, that's another.
unapatriciated
(5,390 posts)In the early 90's my son was diagnosed with Dermatomyositis and lost a lot of muscles during the first year of his illness. He was in physical therapy from eight in the morning till five in the evening the first three months (after the disease was under control). After he was released from Childrens LA he had 3 to 5 hours of physical therapy spread out during the day. He was in a wheel chair part of the time and a walker for two years. You can not maintain or progress with just a few hours after school when you have an ongoing disease, pt need to be done through out the day. It is very important to get them out of the wheelchair and into a walker for the majority of the day in order to maintain muscle strength.
As far as exhaustion it is something children with long term disabling illnesses learn to deal. The big picture IS maintaining muscle strength, without it they would not be able to participate in the "academic side".
Confusious
(8,317 posts)For PE, doesn't mean her mom is going to leave her in a chair 24/7.
What is grade school? 6 hours a day? and her muscles will become weaker?
phylny
(8,380 posts)and her muscles, including her core muscles, would be both moving less and "correcting" less.
Plus, you don't have necessarily have PE every day in school.
unapatriciated
(5,390 posts)When it comes to disease that deals with muscles even an hour or two of non use can cause weakness and risk losing what some had spent months to years regaining.
I went through this same type of argument with my son's school in the early 90's. I had to have a nurse from Children's LA set up an IEP meeting to explain to them how important it was for him to use his walker instead of a wheelchair while at school.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)can participate in re: PE. An adaptive PE program will enable most children to participate in one or another activity.
Miracles happen everyday. Just have to see good public education to believe it.
And darling, the school in this case is begging for a hearing b/c unless they can establish with medical documentation that the use of the walker is life threatening, a hearing officer will rule against them.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)Said so yourself.
Says in the article, she's learning how to use the walker.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)to fall as a result of her progress or as a part of her therapeutic treatment must be shown to be "unsafe".
Good luck with that. Even if she has learned how to use her walker, kids with CP commonly fall. The issue is really to what extent the district has built in protective measures, not whether or when the child will fall.
And THAT is done with the student's IEP. A good team will rely on medical documentation for guidance.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)From the article.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)assume that if/when their child has a school based disability they are entitled to everything. Not so. But in this case--total overkill by the school administration.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)How to use the walker. But I also agree with your post, and only sort of for the overkill part.
If she can prove that she can walk pretty well with the walker, NP.
If she can't, then she should have to use a wheelchair.
I can also understand why schools do this. An overzealous suing society. They have to protect themselves. I don't like it, I wish it didn't happen, but I understand.
And the guy didn't have to be such a dick about it.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)They usually go too fast and abandon caution. They are kids afterall.
Schools are responsible for the safety of children and for the safekeeping of the public's tax dollars. Never an easy balancing act. And when it comes to schools or school personnel, critics abound.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)decision can be reached in a IEP screening that includes medical requirements.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)accept your arguements. If they get by with this without following the rules then all of our children are in danger of losing their priviledges. My daughter cannot walk at all and so she has to have a wheelchair but one of the rules is that the client be placed in the least restrictive environment. A wheel chair is more restricting than a walker.
jillan
(39,451 posts)Making her use a wheelchair when she does not need one violates her rights in the same way it would violate yours if you were forced to use a wheelchair if you don't need one.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)identical to the ADA is applicable. And frankly, sometimes the kids who use the open front walker with CP or similar supports DO need to use a wheelchair to access their education. The issue is not whether the child fell in the parking lot with mother--it is whether and in what manner she can access her free and appropriate public education.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)Says in the article. Sounds like she might need one.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)for starters.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)First hand knowledge of that?
I remember my grade school. Had a ramps everywhere.
My other one had an elevator for access to the second and third floors.
Both had really wide corridors. ( so does the one my cousin works at, now that I think about it, it's a one story, so no elevators)
That was 35 years ago, so forgive me if I don't believe you.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)where they still send wheelchair-using students to Jefferson Elementary in Waikiki, because it's the only one that's single-story.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)If a district has one building that IS accessible, they are allowed to have others that are not.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)DOES THE SCHOOL DISTRICT HAVE TO MAKE STRUCTURAL CHANGES TO EXISTING BUILDINGS TO MAKE PROGRAMS ACCESSIBLE?
Public school systems must ensure that programs, services, and activities are accessible to and usable by individuals with disabilities. Ensuring program accessibility is an important aspect of enhancing opportunity for people with disabilities. Both Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 prohibit public school systems from denying people with disabilities equal opportunity to participate in programs, services, and activities because school facilities are either inaccessible to them or unusable by them [28 C.F.R.§35.149 and 34 C.F.R.§104.21]. Both regulations contain two standards to be used in determining whether a covered entity's programs, activities, and services are accessible to individuals with disabilities. One standard deals with new construction and alterations; the other deals with "existing" facilities.
The program accessibility and least restrictive environment requirements of Title II and Section 504 do not conflict. For students with disabilities, school districts must review the students' individual needs and devise programs to meet those needs. Accessibility considerations may not be factored into the determination of whether a student needs a restrictive or non-restrictive placement. Once a particular placement has been agreed to, the school district must ensure that the student has access to the programs that are part of the student's placement. As for providing services at the school nearest a student's home, there is no such explicit requirement in Section 504 or Title II. However, if a school district did adopt a specific policy that students will attend school at their "home" school, but then denied participation to students with disabilities, there might be a violation of the law. (sort of a catch 22)
Although the program accessibility standard is a rigorous one, both the Title II and Section 504 regulations permit flexibility in how the standard can be met. Both structural and nonstructural methods of achieving program accessibility are acceptable.
Although nonstructural methods of achieving program accessibility are acceptable, they should not have the effect of segregating people with disabilities or compromising their dignity and independence. Priority must be given to offering programs or activities in the most integrated setting appropriate [28 C.F.R.§35.150(b)(1) and 34 C.F.R.§104.22(b)].
If no effective nonstructural alternatives can be provided to achieve program accessibility, public school systems must make the necessary structural changes [28 C.F.R.§35.150(b)(1) and 34 C.F.R.§104.22(b)]. These changes must conform to new construction and alterations.
Although structural changes to make existing facilities accessible are not required as a matter of course, they must be undertaken if there is no alternative means to achieve program accessibility [28 C.F.R.§35.150(b)(1) and 34 C.F.R.§104.22(b)]. Structural changes include such alterations as installing a ramp, widening a doorway, or lowering a toilet.
Structural changes include not only those required to provide access to persons with mobility impairments, but also those required to render the program accessible to persons with other disabilities. For example, people with hearing impairments may require assistive listening systems. The full range of disabilities should be kept in mind as program accessibility is considered.
DOES THE PROGRAM ACCESSIBILITY STANDARD APPLY ONLY TO STUDENTS?
Public school systems must ensure that their programs are accessible to parents, guardians, and members of the public with disabilities as well as to students. This requirement includes all programs, activities, or services that are open to parents or to the public, such as parent-teacher organization meetings, plays, and graduation ceremonies. With respect to existing facilities, school districts may satisfy their obligations to make programs accessible to parents who have disabilities by reassigning their child to a school facility that is accessible.
DOES THE SCHOOL DISTRICT HAVE TO MAKE STRUCTURAL CHANGES TO EXISTING BUILDINGS TO MAKE PROGRAMS ACCESSIBLE?
Although the program accessibility standard is a rigorous one, both the Title II and Section 504 regulations permit flexibility in how the standard can be met. Both structural and nonstructural methods of achieving program accessibility are acceptable.
Although nonstructural methods of achieving program accessibility are acceptable, they should not have the effect of segregating people with disabilities or compromising their dignity and independence. Priority must be given to offering programs or activities in the most integrated setting appropriate [28 C.F.R.§35.150(b)(1) and 34 C.F.R.§104.22(b)].
If no effective nonstructural alternatives can be provided to achieve program accessibility, public school systems must make the necessary structural changes [28 C.F.R.§35.150(b)(1) and 34 C.F.R.§104.22(b)]. These changes must conform to new construction and alterations.
Standards.
humancentereddesign.org
CASELAW
It is impermissible for a student to be barred from access to classes and other
activities that regular education peers are provided and which could easily be provided by the school through accommodations, such as a wheelchair or wheelchair accessibility.
For example, a district was required to incur a minimal, nonrecurring expense necessary to make a local school closest to the home of a student who used a wheelchair accessible. The districts decision to place the student at a middle school which was accessible to wheelchair uses was impermissibly based upon physical accessibility only, rather than the students needs. Moreover the expenditure would benefit not only the student but the larger constituency of all wheelchair users as well. San Antonio Indep School Dist., 17 EHLR 1168 (SEA TX 1991).
Several OCR (Office Civil Rights) regulations and opinions have dealt with this issue in the past. The right to access to ALL school activities, including extracurricular activities, is an area in which OCR is very supportive of student rights.
Following are citations to 504 regs, followed by citations to some OCR letters and rulings:
The federal regulations governing Section 504 can be found in Volume 34 of the Code of Federal Regulations (C.F.R.).
34 C.F.R. § 104.37 sets forth the requirement that public schools provide students with disabilities an equal opportunity as that available to non-disabled students to participate in non-academic and extracurricular services and activities. This section reads as follows:
§ 104.37 Nonacademic services.
(a) General.
(1) A recipient to which this subpart applies shall provide non-academic and extracurricular services and activities in such manner as is necessary to afford handicapped students an equal opportunity for participation in such services and activities.
(2) Nonacademic and extracurricular services and activities may include counseling services, physical recreational athletics, transportation, health services, recreational activities, special interest groups or clubs sponsored by the recipients, referrals to agencies which provide assistance to handicapped persons, and employment of students, including both employment by the recipient and assistance in making available outside employment.
Note that §104.34, which addresses Educational Settings, provides, with respect to Nonacademic Settings, as follows:
(b) Nonacademic settings. In providing or arranging for the provision of nonacademic and extracurricular services and activities, including meals, recess periods, and the services and activities set for in § 104.37(a)(2), a recipient shall ensure that handicapped persons participate with nonhandicapped persons in such activities and services to the maximum extent appropriate to the needs of the handicapped person in question.
*********
See Williamstown (MA) Publ. Schs., OCR I, Boston MA, 2003, 39 IDELR 43, in which a parent had complained that the district denied her daughter, who had spastic cerebral palsy, access to a computer lab, the choral group and a field trip. When OCR investigated, it found that the student had been unable to accompany her class on a field trip because there was no plan for transportation. OCR found that the district did not provide the student with an equal opportunity to participate in extracurricular activities. The case was resolved by the district agreeing to provide, inter alia, appropriate transportation to allow such equal access.
See Chino Valley (CA) Unified School Dist.,OCR, 3/10/2000, addressing a complaint that 12th grade students with disabilities were excluded from a field trip to Medieval Times. In it letter, OCR states:
"Section 504 prohibits the exclusion of students from participation in any school activity on the basis of disability."
The matter was resolved by the district entering into a written agreement under which it agreed to sponsor a second field trip to Medieval Times, and pay the total cost for all the students who had been previously excluded. Additionally the district agreed that in the future, all eligible students, including those with disabilities, would be invited to attend such field trips. In addition, the District agreed to provide Section 504 disability sensitivity training to all high school administrators. Based on all these assurances, OCR indicated that it would consider the matter resolved, but that "OCR will monitor the District's full implementation of the commitments contained in the VRP" [voluntary resolution process].
See Chesterfield (VA) County Public Schools, ICR XI D.C. 2003, 39 IDELR 163, in which OCR approved a settlement agreement after students with mobility impairments complained that field trips to a local movie theater were not accessible. OCR agreed that it was inappropriate for school personnel to carry the students to the second floor so they could see the performance, and approved the district's agreement to request the theater to make the performance wheelchair accessible.
See Rim of the World (CA) Unified Sch Dist., 38 IDELR 101, OCR OX (2002), in which a district avoided a finding of violation of 504 when a teacher told a blind student that he could not participate in a field trip unless accompanied by a family member only because OCR found that this was a "miscommunication" and an "isolated incident" by a teacher who was not the student's normal teacher and because the teacher was not stating school policy - - the student had gone on other field trips without any requirement of a family member coming along.
See Ramirez v D. of Columbia, 32 IDELR 87 (US D.Ct. DC, 2000). In holding that the school had to modify a restroom so the student could maneuver his wheelchair through the doorway, the court ruled that access was required under IDEA and 504. The court noted that regs implementing the ADA and 504 require a program "when viewed in its entirety" to be "readily accessible to individuals with disabilities." It also referenced Appendix A to 28 CFR §35.150(b)(1), which discusses acceptable vs. unacceptable ways to provide program accessibility. (Carrying the child is not considered an acceptable method for achieving program accessibility,)
See also Evans County (GA) Sch. District, OCR June 30, 1999, in which OCR approved a settlement requiring the district to hire an architect to renovate the entire school system. Among other complaints that were addressed, the student with a mobility impairment had been excluded from a pep rally because he was unable to open the gymnasium doors. With respect to access to the pep rally, the case states:
"With respect to the allegation that the Student was treated differently than students without disabilities when left outside the gym during a pep rally because he was unable to open the gym doors, the District informed OCR that the Complainant notified the Special Education Direction (Director) of the incident. The Director and the classroom teacher apologized to the Student and the Complainant and developed a plan to insure that the incident would not reoccur. . . . As a result of the District's actions, OCR considers the matter resolved."
See also Bad Axe (MI) Pub. Sch. OCR Region V 20 IDELR 819 (7/23/93) finding numerous violations of 504 accessibility requirements, including lack of accessibility to the spectator seating in the football stadium because there were no curb cuts to allow individuals in wheelchairs to reach the seating area.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)_ed_
(1,734 posts)Admit it.
The ADA requires wheelchair accessibility in all public schools.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)That doesn't mean it actually exists.
You said that "most schools are not wheelchair accessible." That's total bullshit that you made up on the spot and now you're lying your way out of it.
Post actual statistics on schools and the ADA if you're trying to make a point of some kind. How many ACTUAL schools are not ADA-compliant?
Stop making shit up.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)most NYC schools are multi-story; not sure how many have elevators.
Response to _ed_ (Reply #91)
_ed_ This message was self-deleted by its author.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)we had to find ways to prevent bed sores with my daughter. The walker helps with these health problems.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)My friends who have CP say that the PT was painful and limited to short sessions.
But, when they could just get up and walk from time to time they could go at their own pace limiting the pain themselves, do as much as they want- sometimes beyond what they would have gotten in PT, and it could actually be fun.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)the need for exercise and atrophy was just allowed to set in. One of her arms is still atrophied. Today we understand that being able to do what you can on your own or even with someone doing PT is much better than then.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)liability and assistance for the child. They're saying the child really can't use the walker to the level that is safe. She'd already fallen down. They don't have the staff to provide an assistant to assist her in wherever she is going.
I see their point.
The school is accommodating the child by providing ramps and access for anything the child needs and can use safely. If she'd been able to use the walker safely, there wouldn't be an issue. The mother admits this is a progression, that the child really is LEARNING to use the walker.
It's a sticky issue. I see both sides. But if you have a disabled child that you want to go to a public school, where they don't have staff or experience in assisting the disabled, you have to alter YOUR procedures, too, in addition to the school altering ITS procedures. Or...you can send your child to a special school where they have experienced staff to assist children with those sorts of needs.
The child can use the walker the rest of the day. At home, at malls, playing outside at home, etc.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)that they don't have an assistant to monitor her movements. None of that will fly in a hearing. They will either have to hire an aide or provide a schedule of adult monitors. Ramps and similar access are not the same as whatever is provided in her personal IEP.
How do I know? I work with a child who is nearly identical. He is making it and this child can/will also.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)If the child needs an aide - they have to provide one.
That is what the ADA is all about and why individual educational plans are written.
As far as the parents sending their child to a public school - what makes you think they have any other option?
Special education is part of public education since the 70's. I don't know if you are aware of that.
The whole idea is to mainstream special children, not put them away at a special school because it is more convenient for those without disabilities.
Everyone stumbles when they learn to walk.
I don't recall my kids being forced to use a wheelchair when they were learning to walk - so why should this girl?
JCMach1
(27,558 posts)It may have to be decided in court.
However, courts tend to side with schools when it comes to basic issues of safety in this regard.
Doesn't mean that it is the right thing to do, just might be legal.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)JCMach1
(27,558 posts)in the same way parents do...
For example, ADA would never trump the authority of a real parent to make a decision for their child.
Legally, it's the same concept... the school just 'acts' as parent.
madaboutharry
(40,210 posts)They want to protect themselves from liability. It is a stupid argument. Kids get hurt at school all the time. If they are so worried, then allow the mother to waive liability.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)They're a bunch of s.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)How does a wheelchair deny access?
If the mother waives liability is this instance, her using a walker, it seems fair to me.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Lawsuit! Lawsuit!
Quantess
(27,630 posts)A wheelchair is unnecessarily restrictive. Her mobility is with the use of a walker, which is less restrictive than a wheelchair. Whether it "seems fair" is not really good enough to be in compliance of IDEA. There are clear provisions in the law about this. The school is out of compliance in terms of least restrictive environment.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)I've heard it before. People with disabilities deserve to have a right to fall down, screw up, and fail just like anyone else.
I heard someone give advice once. Someone wanted to be sure they weren't making mistakes raising their kid who had a disability. The advice was you will know if everyone, including the school, is not on the right track if she never gets in trouble.
This kid just wants some independence.
gkhouston
(21,642 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)But let's take this to logical extent...
Able bodied kids fall, yes they do...let's get all of them on wheelchairs!
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)The only way the ADA is enforced is by threat of or by actual lawsuit.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)loyalsister
(13,390 posts)Parents and caregivers who truly care about their loved ones and clients, patients, etc... sometimes have the most trouble breaking away from the stereotypes and mythology in order to see that people with disabilities are capable of enjoying their lives and finding their own way in that direction if they have the opportunity.
We got the law 20 yrs. ago and are still trying to wake people up.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)that it be followed.
annabanana
(52,791 posts)RebelOne
(30,947 posts)Make all disabled people and seniors who use walkers to be confined to wheel chairs?
politicasista
(14,128 posts)They are afraid of getting sued, so they are covering their behinds.
Snake Alchemist
(3,318 posts)cynatnite
(31,011 posts)I can understand their view on this. An injury to a cerebral palsy kid could be significant. It's a big risk for the school to take.
Probably insisting the child use the walker when not in school would be the better alternative.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)Which is also a big risk for the school to take.
MadHound
(34,179 posts)Have the parents sign a deal that they won't sue if their daughter falls during the course of normal school activities.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)like her trying to live as normal a life as possible. They need to give her a commendation or something and a big hug.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)This has been litigated over and over again, especially when it comes to High School Football, parents can sign THEIR rights away, but NOT the rights of their child. i,e, parents sign a waiver so their son can play Football for his high school, he gets hurt, he can still sue the school, for his parents had NO RIGHT TO SIGN AWAY HIS RIGHTS AND NEITHER CAN HE TILL HE TURNS 18.
In most states the only way to sign away the rights of a child is by first going to court and having a Judge determined the waiver is in the best interest of the child. In most cases the Judge will NOT find that to be the case and deny the wavier.
At the same time the School has to defer to the parents as to HOW the child is to get to school, they can NOT under any IEP demand that the child use a Wheelchair. If the School makes such a demand, the parents should refuse to sign the IEP and demand a hearing, where the issue will be litigated.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)the parents or the school district must provide information to a due process hearing judge about what the medical requirements are for the child in the school environment. The school district can require that a student be safe. And unless or until a hearing judge provides the detail do's and don'ts, the school district can prevail.
For now, it appears that the district, largely because of one administrator, have a failure to communicate.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Hopefully this kid gets her walker back soon. Poor sweet girl.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)Why??????
This makes me beyond sick for personal reasons.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)Canuckistanian
(42,290 posts)And it seems to be aimed squarely at the disadvantaged.
I don't know where this comes from.
tsuki
(11,994 posts)school district to the Office of Civil Rights. If she can find other parents of disabled children that feel they are being bullied into accepting conditions not acceptable to the parents, they should file also.
It does not cost, and I have been pleased with the results.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)ask for a due process hearing.
tsuki
(11,994 posts)can go straight to the Office of Civil Rights.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)on due process hearings. Granted, much of it comes in the procedural rights handout. But its supposed to be available.
Unless the hearing judge is nutty, these people would win. Like I said up stream, this is very likely the result of a poorly informed administrator who has not conferred with counsel and with the local ISD.
tsuki
(11,994 posts)It is strange to see, but even the educators in the neighboring counties could not deal with this county personnel.
OCR was a God-Send.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)are vast, cumbersome and sometimes contradictory. Specific personnel are available in most locale to delineate what laws apply in most cases but that doesn't mean an administration listens. Frankly, administrators make mistakes all the time.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)and avoid a due process hearing because they are time consuming and costly.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)require a District to write and agree to services that are undocumented and/or cannot be shown to be necessary for the student to access their education to the maximum extent possible.
In my view, this school district has opened itself to a due process hearing. Believe me, that's more than enuf' trouble. A student with school identified disability has many, many rights.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)Confinement to a wheelchair could be shown to impede the child's progress of improvement. The school is fucked IMO. But MO matters not and I'm no lawyer.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)In that case a fall can be especially threatening.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)Her doctor(s) should be up to date on her medical needs, such as shunts.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)challenge the client so that they can grow in their ability to help themselves not limit their abilities. The school just wants to avoid the responsibility.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)Which state will claim the honor of being the cruelest, most backward state in America this year?
Over the last 25 years or so it has become pretty boring, Texas, Floriduh, or Missouri, Missouri, Texas, or Floriduh, yawn...
But then 5 or 6 years ago, coming on strong with a renewed sense of purpose and commitment to going all the way, Arizona burst onto the scene with a veritable blizzard of dumb to become a real contender. Now we see that the traditional power houses have been roused from their complacency and are beginning to fight back.
Taitertots
(7,745 posts)"They say they have not yet received her doctors OK for the little girl to use the walker without the leg braces she used to wear."
Mom is just throwing a temper tantrum because she doesn't get her way. Put the child in a wheel chair where she is safe for school and do whatever unsafe acts you want at home.
How many teachers/educators here think they are just employees and have to do whatever parents what them to do? That is basically all that is happening here.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I can understand why they want her in a wheelchair as much as I can understand the mom's concern for the development of her child. Parents have a right to be concerned and school district leaders have the right to be concerned about her falling down on cement.
phylny
(8,380 posts)without knowing how the school system is or isn't working for her child. I used to work in public schools as a speech-language pathologist, and while there were times I disagreed with parents, I always told them it was their job to advocate for their child. I think she's doing just what she should.
Taitertots
(7,745 posts)And based on the video she created and put on the internet, It is pretty obvious that her child should probably be in a wheel chair at school. In the video she appeared to have difficulty making it even a few feet.
When you disagreed with parents, how did it feel if/when they told you that you were just an employee and to do what they say?
phylny
(8,380 posts)she may or may not have made progress since the video and it's not pretty obvious to me, not knowing the child, the recommendations of the PT and her physician's recommendations.
With regard to how I conducted myself as a professional, first of all, I CONDUCTED myself as a professional and would never have spoken to a parent like the guy on the tape did, and therefore had few contentious meetings. If I had all my diagnostic criteria backing up my recommendations, then I would present my thoughts, listen to the parent, and if they still didn't agree, we'd discuss compromise. If we couldn't compromise, or if I thought the parents' wants or demands were to the detriment of the child, then we'd go to due process. It's not like I had to "win" - I had the best interests of my students in mind. I can't say that for some of the administrators I've worked for, but most of them had their hearts in the right place.
I'm just not going to condemn the parent who is her child's advocate.
Catbird
(723 posts)How many times did you fall down in grade school?
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)People on an allegedly progressive board are taking the side of CYA bureaucrats over that of an engaging young girl who is trying to exercise (literally) her civil rights!!!
Initech
(100,069 posts)BlueIris
(29,135 posts)In fact, it couldn't be more FUBARed.
varelse
(4,062 posts)If all of the little kids that trip and fall were stuck in wheelchairs 'for their own safety' we'd have to have crossing guards in the hallways of every school.
This is idiotic. And cruel.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)It was a sad story. Judge said the employer owned the facility and had the right to regulate it. And since the worker wasn't being fired or given a different job, ADA wasn't violated. ADA is about accessibility. And the employer was allowing accessibility, not limiting it.
Not exactly the same thing as this case with a child. But it was still pretty sad. If we weren't in such a litigious society, we wouldn't have stories like this.