"You're goddamn right we want to take from the rich ..."

[Scuba]

[rdharma]

1. 67 individuals own 50% of the world's wealth! nt

[calimary]

20. And three rich old farts want to buy the entire Congress and every available Statehouse.

FUCKERS! Just think - if we could just tax those three multi-billionaires at 90%, we could fix a LOT of the social inequities in this country, provide enough food for probably almost every family in America, and these buggers would STILL have more money left over than they need.

[mtasselin]

35. ACCE

American Cities Counties Exchange, this is the sister of ALEC, by looking at the name you can tell what they plan on doing. If they are successful they control the whole country, we will officially become a third world country.

[calimary]

58. See, THIS is what we have to watch for. Shadowy organizations like this!

I was afraid of that.

All the noise about ALEC. Well, that shoved a big spotlight on them and suddenly they were exposed and GAK! That organization started taking on water. So, figure it this way: when you spot the big ant hill in the garden, or you figure out where the termites started getting a foothold in your rafters, whaddya do? You call the bug exterminators or you spray or otherwise attack the source of the infestation. Okay fine. Job done, and the problem's solved, correct?

FUCKING ASS NOOOOOO!!!!!! NO! NO! NO!!! Think of what happens next? Have you REALLY gotten rid of the ants? Have you REALLY eradicated all the termites? Not on your freakin' LIFE! If you don't want another infestation, you have to keep after them. You have to stay vigilant. You have to be always on watch, always on alert, always doing whatever you can, preventively, to KEEP them away. You can't just sit back and think - "ahhh… cool! Problem solved! All gone! Let's relax and go back to sleep!"

Well, here, too. I was afraid that the exposure of ALEC to the blinding sunlight would only be a temporary victory. When one of their strategies doesn't work, these vermin just figure out a different way, a new plan of attack, set up a new organization or some new venture that will basically continue the same job on the same objectives, just - not called the same thing. Maybe not headquartered in the same building. But they're STILL there, and they're STILL doing their dirty work, and they're STILL hellbent on the same objectives, and they're STILL operating at full speed and metastasizing like a runaway cancer.

And I'd bet you cash money that that this is EXACTLY what's happened now that ALEC has been exposed and set back. That didn't stop 'em for a nanosecond. I bet they probably planned for precisely this "small" reversal. And to them it is. It hasn't stopped 'em at all. I'd bet they already had this one up and running, in anticipation of what we might do.

I'd also bet you cash money that most of our Dems assumed that once ALEC was exposed, the job was done, work is finished, we got 'em, and that's that. Problem solved! No more ALEC! Stand down red alert! Everybody can relax now. Let's all go back to sleep!

You ALWAYS have to think several steps ahead with these people. BELIEVE ME, they've got layers of staff people doing exactly that, at all times. They're always planning and adjusting and like a nest of termites, looking for the next weak spot where they can get in and resume their dirty work, and eat your house out from under you. Shit - do we have ANYBODY doing that? ANYBODY thinking that way? Hey Debbie, has this occurred to you AT ALL, Miss Asleep-at-the-Switch???? Probably not.

[erronis]

68. The best way for the vermin to survive

is to infect another host. My biggest fear and strongest belief is that they are now walking the liberal/democratic walk, talking that talk, building up their creds --- but they are sleepers that will try to undermine the democratic process.

Hey, for a few 10's of thousands of dollars, wouldn't you start to let your hair grow long, spout libral props, try to gain seats in local/state governments/boards, become the darling of the left wing --- and then show your true colors?

[calimary]

86. See my post #83. The only solution to this is Mad-Eye Moody's warning to Harry Potter.

Mad-Eye Moody repeatedly said - "CONSTANT VIGILANCE!!!!!!" They were dealing with the Dark Lord and it was, thankfully, fiction. WE, on the other hand, are dealing with the koch brothers and shel adelson and piles of money higher than the Himalayas. We HAVE TO anticipate. We HAVE TO outthink them. We HAVE TO outwit them. And we can't EVER relax and kick back and assume the problem is now solved and over and done with. Like Lady Macbeth's damned spot, they do NOT go away and disappear, no matter how hard you scrub.

And frankly, wish I didn't have to say or believe this, but I think the Dems need to beef up not only their opposition research but bring on a few devious thinkers. You have to think like the Dark-Siders. Like Section 31 in Star Trek. Bad. Evil. Dark Side definitely. But we HAVE TO know and understand and head off what the bad guys are doing. Try to anticipate their next move. Try to outthink them when we have them on the ropes. Anybody remember how horrible Blackwater was? The very idea was icky. Well, it eventually got stopped - in the "yeah, SUUUUURE" file. Blackwater doesn't exist anymore. They frickin' renamed it. Now it's this shadowy faceless entity called Xe. Or maybe THAT has even changed by now. That was awhile ago. And I haven't kept up closely enough. But that fiend eric prince (who comes out of the ultra-conservative dick devol Amway machine in the upper Midwest - I think he married Mr. Amway's daughter) simply renamed it and the business carried on with impunity. And everybody who only bothered to look around at surface-level figured - "aha! Over! They're gone! Ding dong the witch is dead! We won! We BEAT those bastards! Everybody can relax and go back to sleep now!"

Hey, I'm as Machiavellian as the next guy.

[IrishAyes]

95. Sometimes that's what it takes. 'The Prince', while not exactly

a North Star roadmap, still should be required reading.

[sabrina 1]

98. I like your thinking. They are teaching us well. They might regret that over time.

They, and their supporters, make no pretext that ethics, morality or the rule of law even, matter anymore.

The problem is they are so organized, and the people are not. Sharks gobbling up everything in their path, and the people are helpless to stop them.

[IrishAyes]

80. Not that I know which Debbie you mean,

But that's a world-class rant, Calimary. Kudos to you!

The greatest compliment I know: "Wish I'd said that."

[calimary]

83. Debbie Wasserman-Shultz, D-FL

Whose flabby leadership has turned its back on Howard Dean's winning "50-State Strategy." And in 2010, we saw the results of that. Keep all the power and resources inside the Beltway, alright. Don't sweat it so much with the states, especially the hopeless ones. And look what happened.

With that little bit of unpleasantness handled - thank you so much!

The best way to sum it up, I think, is to quote (and learn) from one of J.K. Rowling's characters. The wizard Mad-Eye Moody always warned Harry Potter - "CONSTANT VIGILANCE!!!!!"

[IrishAyes]

90. Thank you. I thought maybe so but wasn't sure.

So often when I guess, I wind up in hot water.

[Lizzie Poppet]

2. K and fucking R!

What the rightist assbags that claim these sentiments derive from jealousy or suchlike need to realize is that very few of us would begrudge any of them a reasonable amount of wealth, particularly when it was honestly earned through hard work, innovation, and perseverance. When it's an obscene amount of wealth hoarding that clearly harms society, when it was "earned" via scams, theft, and cynical manipulation of the democratic system? Nope...fuck you very much. You are few, we are many...and if you don't accept meaningful change in a badly broken system, we'll (eventually) wake up and shove it down your goddamn throats. Your call.

[dotymed]

45. "They" have huge underground cities

(really huge) and most of them know that soon "our planet" will become uninhabitable. I think that is why they keep destroying for greed. So they might re-populate with their sociopathic mindset.
We must take "our" money back and use it for the people.
When wealthy tax rates were Progressive was the greatest time of life for the masses. (not civil rights though)
This (rightfully) re-appropriated wealth can build a non oil, nuke or coal dependent power grid and allow people to earn a living wage while healing our planet.
It is hopefully not too late.
The longer that we wait, the greater the possibility of the end of humanity so some mentally ill cretins can live like Pharoahs and die with more wealth than we can imagine.

[IrishAyes]

82. Woo-hoo! Preach it, sister.

[BlueStreak]

3. The best approach is to say "hell yes"

rather than to hang one's head in shame and meekly beg for some scraps from the rich.

They have stolen this money from the middle class and we want it back. The American way of life cannot coexist with this concentration of wealth.

[rhett o rick]

4. Not only did they steal our wealth then put us in debt. We need 2 trillion dollars

to fix our infrastructure. We need a couple of trillion to pay for the Iraq War. And we have taken no steps to prevent another bank bailout the greatest heist in history. They did it once, they will do it again.

[aggiesal]

11. And now the banking bill in the Senate ...

and supported by some democrats, has a clause that states that the taxpayer
will be responsible for any and all bailouts.

[2banon]

55. Whoah, Whoah, Whoah.. What??? Which Bill is this one? Share it wide and loudly!

This needs more attention!!

[aggiesal]

71. Here's the story ...

Try not to pull too much hair out.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/26/the-economic-scam-of-the-century/

[2banon]

72. aggiesal, this piece needs it's own thread..

for what it's worth, would you mind considering posting this piece?

[aggiesal]

75. Since the story is several days old, ...

I placed it in General Discussion.

[2banon]

85. Excellent and thank you..

[ZX86]

5. Personal wealth should be capped at 100 million dollars.

Anything beyond that should be taxed at 100%.

A lot of people recoil in horror when I tell them wealth should be capped. That taking money from individuals is immoral. Well I'm sorry. If you can't have complete and fulfilled life with a 100 million dollars there is something wrong with you and additional money won't help. I really don't have any inclination to worry about whines and complaints of somebody with a 100 million dollars. They can cry themselves to sleep every night in a big pile on money for all I care.

[SammyWinstonJack]

12. 100 million is obscene!

[aggiesal]

14. But you wouldn't be able to own ...

a professional sports team with only $100 !million.

Do you need the sarcasm imoticon?

OK, here it is.

[toddwv]

24. Just bring back the estate tax.

It was a great equalizer.

Tax anything over $10,000,000 at something near 100%.

If they haven't set their kids and family up with big fat trusts, great education, and unparalleled opportunities by the time they kick the bucket... well, that's their problem.

[MillennialDem]

32. I agree the estate tax should be high, but I worry about how dodgeable it is with trusts and whatnot

there should be a maximum wealth limit for sure.

[sendero]

30. I disagree..

..... but would be ok with taxes at 99% once you reach that point.

[LiberalFighter]

39. Don't need to cap wealth.

Best method is to impose appropriate taxes that increases in a progressive manner. The estate tax should be brought back as the beneficiaries of the income didn't do a damn thing to earn it. It should be added to the income and taxed all as income. Investment income should also be taxed higher. Possibly the same as income with a 2 to 5% discount.

[Half-Century Man]

60. Not enough

Wealth should be based on needs not desires.
Wealth cap at 150 million dollars per person
Forced retirement at 100 million, complete removal from flow and control of production.
Per year accumulation of wealth capped a 5 million dollar, All forms of gain added together and capped at a total of 5 million. (Only exception would be an inheritance)
Inheritance capped at 7.5 million per person, All other wealth from an estate forfeited. (Estate can be parceled out in 7.5 million chunks according to the deceased written wishes)
At wealth level of 3 million dollars, any and all forms of retirement and/or severance packages are illegal.
Stock options should be illegal, if someone wants stock, buy it at market value.
No cap for social security taxation.
Sentencing guidelines based on monies involved in a crime, 1 year for every 100 thousand dollars. Crimes involving millions of dollars suddenly become highly dangerous to execute.
For a Start.

Can anyone explain why any society should allow the financial, the social, the industrial, and political bottleneck that is/are billionaires to exist?

[rhett o rick]

73. There are lots of things that should be done but how to do them is the rub. nm

[IrishAyes]

84. That's one reason I walked out of that movie "The Big Easy"

At least I remember that as the title. Could be wrong. It was about very well-off friends reuniting in New Orleans for a funeral or something. They started out whining about how hard their lives were; I almost threw up, and I did walk out.

[pansypoo53219]

6. i have been telling my moderate publica epal the economy is RIGGED. wall street is RIGGED.

[toddwv]

26. And so is politics.

Can a legislative body that is more than 50% millionaires truly represent the real People of the US?

[reformist2]

27. And it's pretty much run by computers now, too. Few there are doing any real "work" anymore, imo.

Busywork, to be sure. Working 70-80-90 hour weeks. But it's mostly schmoozing and posing and posturing and writing all sorts of "highly researched" reports that aren't even read anymore and don't matter to anyone. The differences in the performance of the various funds is dwindling to zero, and is increasingly random. Which means investors may as well put their money in index funds and be done with it.

[Lucky Luciano]

28. You do know that writing those computer programs is real work, right?

It is extremely sophisticated work too with some incredible technology.

There is busy work too, but those computers, sure as shit, don't write their own programs (yet).

[reformist2]

29. Those computer programs are increasingly fighting each other - it's a zero-sum game.

Let the computer-whizzes program themselves into nervous breakdowns as their returns all dwindle to zero. They may be super-smart geniuses, but they are wasting their talents, doing a whole lot of nothing.

[LiberalFighter]

43. The programmers do the writing. Not the hedge fund jerks.

Too bad there isn't a way to calculate the amount of real work a person does. When they say someone in the business world works 70, 80 or even 100 hours a week. They sure as hell don't.

[Lucky Luciano]

93. The hedge fund jerks are often the main programmers.

...and the programmers are well paid. About $500K a few years out if school if they are good coders.

The 70-100 hour work weeks are real, but more likely for an investment bankers. Traders have the much better deal with only 55-60 hours per week albeit with greater intensity per hour of work. The 70-100 hour weeks do include client time and work dinners. The work dinners are a cool novelty when someone is just starting out, but the novelty wears off. It is important work that makes relationships work and takes time away from family and friends.

[blkmusclmachine]

7. Can't do it thru DC, "D" or "R." That puppy is fully owned and operated by the 1%.

[Le Taz Hot]

34. Which is why we are where we are.

One of the reasons it annoys the shit out of me when someone on DU DEMANDS!111!!1 "purity tests." Few people seem to get that in the process of voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.

[840high]

78. You are so right. Evil is evil.

[dreamnightwind]

8. K & R

Now we're getting down to it. Good to see some fight directed in the right direction here on DU.

The pic on the OP references theeverlastinggopstoppers.com. Looks like their main strategy is voter reg and turnout, great for getting Dems in office and I highly recommend doing so, but that doesn't even get close to addressing the wealth claw-back issue. We have big problems right here in our own party.

[WillyT]

9. Damned Tootin' !!!

[enid602]

64. redistribution

This cartoon does well in highlighting the different tax rates under different presidents. What it does not say is that FDR raised the rate because of WWII, which we paid for. GWB LOWERED the highest tax rate, and started 2 discretionary wars (the costliest in our history) almost simultaneously. That, combined with outsourcing/privatizing many military functions allowed for the most dramatic redistribution of income in US history.

In addition, it also allowed the GOP to propose massive Medicare and Social Security cuts, as the deficits caused by unpaid wars created fiscal unsustainability.

[reformist2]

10. You're talking about wealth redistribution, you know.... sounds good to me too!

[SammyWinstonJack]

13. Yeah, well don't hold your breath on that.

[gulliver]

15. You don't have to put the rich down to tax them.

That's just completely stupid on our part, and it is a widespread notion. It actually makes it harder to tax the rich if you make it about them being bad people or not deserving what they have. The Republican side turns the poor into bad people. That also makes it harder to tax, although that is deliberate.

Taxing isn't about who deserves things. It's about getting the most out of everyone and getting the money needed to do it wherever that money happens to be available.

Tax the rich big time and then thank them. Throw them a party.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

52. 'or not deserving what they have'...

There simply is no way for any human being to 'deserve' what almost all of the 0.1% have. That's money that's been bled off from millions of actual workers to generate 'profits'. Getting paid millions a year simply means you got paid millions a year. Not that you 'earned it', or 'deserved it'. That you found a place in the amoral 'free market' structure in which you can walk away with millions of dollars from other people. Not that you're any better than them, any worse than them, just that you managed to find one of the niches into which wealth taken from others is out of proportion to the value received in return.

It's the very assumption that they could possibly 'earn' or 'deserve' such obscene amounts that has utterly poisoned our political system.

[gulliver]

61. Drop the concept of "deservingness" altogether.

All I can say is feel about it how you will, but don't forget that the whole point is to make sure money flows where it will do good. There doesn't need to be any justification for taxing the wealthy other than that the democracy decided to do it. The idea that justification is needed generates most of the roadblocks.

[Stonepounder]

16. Those who don't remember history are doomed to repeat it.

Historically when wealth inequality gets too great there is some sort of revolution. It can be the really bloody kind like France, or a somewhat quiet one like England had between the wars. But sooner or later the income gets redistributed.

[jtuck004]

22. The sans coulettes don't learn though, and begin to reward the wealthy again. Give it up, get some

back, repeat. We are still doing the same thing.

France's revolution ended with the wealthy replacing the tyrant and the the leader of the revolution, along with a lot of citizens, losing their heads. Some good came of it for us, but not for them. The truly wealthy learned that "Revolutions" are opportunities for profit.

We don't have to go that far (I have real trouble picturing most American citizens casting aside their remote and leaping from the lazyboy). Enough would have to agree that we need to stop the giving of wealth to the pirates. If we stop giving it to them, they fall over. Figure out a way to end all the debt, and move forward with something else that doesn't involve US keeping THEM healthy. That's tens of millions of people all agreeing to the same path, a lot of organizing, though. Surely there is already a party that serves those interests.

I can't think of one off the top of my head, though.

[MillennialDem]

33. How about a revolution like in 1917 Russia? :)

[socialist_n_TN]

38. That would warm the cockles (what the hell are "cockles" anyway?)......

of this old Trotskyist's heart.

Except this time we get it right and not allow a parasitic bureaucracy to take over the revolution. Even Classic Reds have to learn from our mistakes.

Welcome to DU. Check us out in the Socialist Progressives group.

[Maynar]

69. Are the in the sub-cockle area?

We just don't know.

[reformist2]

17. One thing to remember is that the rich already owe Social Security $3 trillion.

That's how much the General Fund has borrowed from Social Security.

[Samantha]

18. It has also borrowed from the Federal Government pension funds

and I am still trying to find the funds the Post Office was forced to accrue to pay ahead 75 years their worker's benefits. I do not know that fund has been pilfered, but I cannot find where it is being kept....

Sam

[Moostache]

57. Winner, winner! Chicken Dinner!

You nailed it! This is exactly why the uber-wealthy fight so hard against any and all taxation and promote the meme that "we" can't afford to sustain government programs aimed at helping the poor, the infirm and the weak. They know damn well that the "we" who can't afford it does NOT include THEM....THEY can afford a whole lot of things that they are passing off on others.

[mountain grammy]

19. The capital gains tax is the biggest joke of all

on the working class. Taxing money made from money at a lower rate than money made from work is obscene in my opinion.

[gtar100]

21. Taking back... Not just taking. Those fuckers stole it from us by gaming the system

and abusing their power. They... all those Wall Street investors, all those right-wing corporations, they have not rightfully earned their billions. The laws on the books now do not reflect fairness or justice; so it makes little difference if they say it was legal. Stealing pensions, bankrupting perfectly good businesses, moving our jobs overseas to exploit even more unfair labor standards, foreclosing on us, raising the price of gas and oil simply because they can and wrecking the lives of millions and millions of people... these are all crimes against us. So when we talk about taking from the rich, it's about getting back what is rightfully ours.

[woo me with science]

23. kick

Last edited Sat Mar 29, 2014, 08:46 AM - Edit history (1)

and recommend!

[Enthusiast]

25. K&R! This post should have hundreds of recommendations!

[99Forever]

31. Unapologetic K&R

[Nuclear Unicorn]

36. Is everyone really so naive as to believe that if we elect politicians to send men with guns

to tear the money from the hands of the wealthy that the politicians will then -- looking at that enormous pile of wealth they have amassed -- will then turn to their armed servants and order those servants to give the money back to us?

Don't get me wrong, the corporate bailouts, etc. are on-going theft but those bailouts are being instituted by the exact same politicians we seem to think are going to suddenly ride to our rescue. There is not one righteous man in the world and yet we delude ourselves to comedic degrees if we think we can elect (435 + 100 + 1) * 0.51 righteous men for any appreciable period of time to somehow change the status quo.

[socialist_n_TN]

40. That's why it will take a revolution..........

Because the system as it is now is WHOLLY about keeping the capitalists in control of society. And that's EVERY facet of the system from the economic to the political to the social. We can attempt to change the economic, but the current political and judicial system won't allow it. We can attempt to change the political (votes), but the economic power brokers won't allow that because they control who we can vote FOR. We could possibly attempt to change society which MIGHT change the economics and the politics, but that's going to take a LONG time and the question becomes, "Do we have a long time?".

[Nuclear Unicorn]

44. "That's why it will take a revolution"

In other words, lots of bloodshed and at the end of the day the people with the guns are still making the rules for everyone else.

Screw that.

Opt out and ignore the bastards to death.

[socialist_n_TN]

46. The amount of violence involved in a revolution depends SOLELY....

on how vigorously the ones with the current power try to hold on to that power.

And I agree to a point with the "opt out" tactic because that will create a dual power set-up. But how long do you think that the capitalists will allow you to "opt out"? At some point they will make "opting out" illegal, one way or another. Do you really think that the PTBs will allow most of the population to "opt out" without consequence? Personally, I would bet on them NOT allowing it when it comes to the point of interfering with their profits.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

47. "how long do you think that the capitalists will allow you to 'opt out'?"

About as long as the socialists. Centralized authority is the tool of every oppressor. Never give them the tool they will use to crack your own skull.

[socialist_n_TN]

48. And lack of organization is also the tool of the oppressor........

because the ONLY advantage we have in the class war is numbers. But numbers mean nothing unless it's organized numbers.

Job One MUST be overthrowing the current system and that won't happen with everyone working independently.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

51. The System, (LLC) only works because it organizes people.

It stuffs people in to tidy little categories. One of the biggest proponents of classism are the ones who supposedly preach against it. "Woe is the Lower Class!" they wail, but they'll be damned if they ever allow the Lower Class to be anything other than Lower Class. They sure as Hell won't ever let the Lower Class rise to the Upper Class because then they would lose their congregation. Like preachers who only preach against sin to get you into church so they can stuff a collection plate in front of your face.

Where would the top of the pyramid sit if all the other bricks wandered off on their own? Nailing Jell-O to a wall, squeezing a balloon only to watch it bulge out elsewhere, herding cats; whatever analogy you prefer.

BE THE JELL-O BALLOON CAT!

Or not. I'm not here to tell people what to do but take advice from a friend: Never trade one master for another.

[Dustlawyer]

59. One way to find out would be to organize mass demonstrations attacking the source of the Plutocrats

power, demanding complete campaign finance reform and publicly funded elections. I think they are prepared to shock America with what they are willing to do to stop the Protesters, but if we do nothing, things will just continue to get worse. It will take a really large mass of demonstrators and coordination across the country focused only on fixing our corrupt election system for it to work. You can also count on either no help from the MSM, or attacks from the MSM, hack their internets, infiltrate the group, and whatever Law Enforcement has been paid to do. Things don't look too good either way.

[IrishAyes]

88. You're aware that at least one state - Kansas, I think - has proposed legislation

to fine demonstrators $1K per day.

[socialist_n_TN]

96. As I said above, ANYTHING that interferes with capitalists making profits........

WILL be declared illegal as soon as it become effective. And possibly before. That includes peaceful demos, opting out, and CERTAINLY strikes. To fight capitalism is, of necessity, to be on the wrong side of bourgeois law at some point. Usually at the point of effectiveness.

[IrishAyes]

97. That's true.

And I'm in total agreement that we scatter in imaginary 'freedom' at our own peril. United we stand, after all. People tend to forget the other part. That's why I'd never make a good anarchist, even though I've known many fine ones. Freedom lies in the effective choices we make, not trying to survive as an island of one. Humans simply aren't put together that way. Although I do vastly prefer living alone, part of the reason is to give me emotional and mental space to more effectively engage the world. In my youth I indulged myself by living for long stretches on what I called the backside of the moon. There are many reasons including advancing age why that's no longer an option for me, so I try to console myself a bit by remembering that living IN civilization is also the only way to try to help improve it.

[Dustlawyer]

109. I would hope that the ACLU would file suit and take it up as violative of our right to peacably

assemble.

[IrishAyes]

110. Surely they must. I love the SPLC, but we need the ACLU as well.

Actually, we need all the force on our side that we can get. The Repugs won't be satisfied until they've starved and frozen us to death in the dark, so I don't tend to tread lightly on them, because they ARE Public Enemy No. 1.

[elzenmahn]

81. The problem is, you can't ignore them...

...and I fear what the future might bring, because I don't support violence or bloodshed in any way.

But that's the trajectory we're on.

And the people who rule, who own the biggest guns, can't be ignored. Because those guns are POINTED AT US.

[dotymed]

50. Even "our" Constitution

begins with the phrase: "TO MAINTAIN THE STATUS QUO."

[lumberjack_jeff]

53. Government serves those whom they are afraid of. n/t

[Nuclear Unicorn]

54. Yep. And it also rules with fear those who it is not afraid of.

[ladjf]

37. I agree with the sentiments of the OP. Anybody got a plan as to how the money could be reclaimed.

It not enough to say,"tax the bastards". To do that would require control of the House,Senate, Presidency and Supreme Court, not to mention the Military. That's going to take votes, votes, and votes, which will require cleaning up the voting process and overthrowing the
right wing crooks that are running the Supreme Court.

[socialist_n_TN]

41. I (and many others here and elsewhere) have said it often........

It's not a matter of wealth. We have the wealth and we're not broke. It's a matter of distribution of that wealth.

[ladjf]

42. Step one: Target the illegal, unethical voting process that has

been controlled by the Republicans. I'm aware that lots of hard work is already being done but we need to redouble our resources in this area. If the voting was legal and fair, the Republicans would lose control of the House, Senate and Presidency. With that accomplished, the myriad of other disasters created by the Republicans, and right wing Religionists could be corrected.

[questionseverything]

67. quoting bev here...

. I also posted a Tennessee file with work orders and release notes which shows the Accenture software has a history of tripling votes in certain ('random') voter histories, going back to 2004. Except it is not random: Other files I discovered prove it is with primarily suburban Republican precincts that votes are somehow being recorded twice and sometimes three times for certain voters in the voter history report, and this didn't just happen in 2004; it also happened in the 2008 presidential primary and in May and August 2010, and according to election commission notes in Shelby County, also in the 2012 presidential primary.

http://politics-beta.slashdot.org/story/12/06/21/168207/bev-harris-of-black-box-voting-releases-accentures-voting-software

//////////////////////////////////////////////

when people say reps vote more in mid terms, I always think, well the program votes for them

but even tho this info has been out there for years even here at du there seems to be a disconnect

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

49. We need to change our structure...

Capitalism is the number one problem, it is an unsustainable structure. Capitalism is raping the earth of resources, we exist in a closed environment but think we are living in a world of unlimited wealth.
The cracks in the Capitalist structure are showing now if we are unafraid enough to look critically at them.
The quest for oil, in any form, no matter how much it costs money or natural resources is just one example.

I have a link to a very informative website about the end of capitalism. Big read, don't quite agree with everything but it is a way to look at the problem.

We need a systems change. That said though we have to work within the system we have now no matter how flawed it is.

We need to take back our world.

http://endofcapitalism.com/2010/07/20/the-end-of-capitalism-interview-part-1/

Four part interview.

[elzenmahn]

56. Lee Camp is THE MAN!

Said plainly enough.

[raouldukelives]

62. K&R But, I don't want to take from all the rich.

I just want the ones making money off making things worse to be stopped.
As far as anyone who gets wealthy doing good works, I have no issues.

[elzenmahn]

76. If the wealth is legitimately made and from something productive, no problems here either...

...but there are a whole lot of inheritance babies, lucky-sperm-club members, and others getting rich without producing a damned thing. We don't need an aristocracy or dynasties in this country.

[Laelth]

63. Hear, hear! k&r n/t

-Laelth

[polichick]

65. Beautiful!

[randr]

66. A basic understanding of how much a billion is

1000 seconds is 16 minutes
1000000 seconds is 11 1/2 days
1000000000 seconds is 32 years
Now when I hear that someone is worth billions and wants tax breaks I go nuts.
How could anyone with so much money have any time to do anything other that have a great time and make others lives better?

[elzenmahn]

77. Because the rich have a different understanding of money than most people...

...they view money as a form of power. Not only the power to accumulate stuff, but the power to influence others and the power to "make things happen".

This is why they hate taxation so much - because taxes are a check on their influence and power.

Remember Deep Throat's advice to Woodward/Bernstein: "Follow The Money".

[randr]

92. I believe that wealth creates a type of mental illness

be it the Midas syndrome or whatever it is a powerful toxin.

[fascisthunter]

70. It's as if The Right Wing expects us to feel ashamed for admitting this

The wealthy elite screwed over millions of Americans to amass their wealth. Their rigging our system to help themselves make that money makes them thieves as far as I am considered. Time to take it back.

[Skittles]

74. PREACH IT MR. CAMP

YES INDEED

[IrishAyes]

79. Couldn't agree more.

Even if they did make a typo; I'm sure they meant 'shot' instead of 'shat'.

BTW, am I the only one who thinks that guy (Lee Camp, I suppose) in the picture resembles Che? Accident or intended? Interesting anyway.

My favorite sign, however, which I saw here on Du reads: "The French Aristocracy Never Saw It Coming Either".

I suppose somewhere a long time ago, maybe a different life, someone bestowed my favorite curse on me: "May You Live In Interesting Times".

[Scuba]

87. I'm guessing "shat" was intentional.

[IrishAyes]

89. Kindly inform me then, please, as I don't quite understand.

[Scuba]

91. Well, what comes out of their mouths is bullshit, so to "shat" it out seems appropriate.

[IrishAyes]

94. NOW I understand - thanks.

Sometimes things just have to be spelled out for me.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

99. "Trickle Dow Economics"

We all remember that load of bull? The RIPublican KILLservatives did not tell everyone about the cock gun they had behind their backs!

They do this to us over and over again! We have GOT to keep those guys OUT of office before they destroy what is left of the U.S. of A!

[KoKo]

100. There ya' Go! A message we need to get out there! Followed Up With...

And Here's Why! (giving the facts and figures we know are documented because DU'ers have posted them here many times.)

Which 2016 Candidate is going to stand up to the Plate and say this? Warren and Sanders have pretty much been on board and Grayson....but, who else might carry that message forcefully so that we have a great stable of candidates all voicing the same message...unified?

Way to Go!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

101. A right-winger's wet dream of "left-wing" idiocy. Please don't give this guy publicity.

The more people see this being quoted, the more risk there is that they'll think this kind of bilge is a fair summary of left-wing economics, and vote accordingly.

[Scuba]

102. Seems to me this message could motivate a whole lot of People to the polls.

Anybody who would not vote Dem because of this message is not going to vote Dem anyway.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

103. No, that's absolutely not true.

There are an awful lot of left-wingers who don't go in for conspiracy theories and understand basic economics.

[Scuba]

104. I suppose you think you're one of them?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

105. Yes, as are most left-wingers. Fools like the one quoted in the OP are thankfully uncommon. N.T.

[Scuba]

106. Actually, ALL the liberals/progressive/Democrats I know believe what you call a CT.

Do you really believe there wasn't a "series of scams built from lies, stacked on deceit, fabricated from fogeries"???

[Donald Ian Rankin]

107. I think there have been millions of such things.

Throughout history, there have been more such things than I can count. There *isn't*, though, a single one on the scale I think the poster is implying.

The majority - the overwhelming majority - of rich people got rich legally and legitimately, without law-breaking or forgery, not through theft, lies or scams.

Making the - insane and evil - case that the rich should be taxed to punish them for being bad seriously undercuts the - sensible and ethical - case for taxing the rich more on utilitarian grounds.

Most left-wingers get that. Most right-wingers think that most left-wingers don't get that, and politics means that they can be guaranteed publicity from right-wing sources. We should be working to distance ourselves from this kind of quote thinking unquote, not promoting it.

[Scuba]

108. OK, I now understand where you're coming from. Yes, not all rich stole the dough.