Lawyers: Can homeowners be held liable for actions committed by their Neighborhood Watch?

[gulliver]

I have looked but can't find anything definitive. For example, I've read that the homeowner's association for a community or subdivision can be sued, and sometimes a judge can force the association to assess homeowners to pay the judgment. If every homeowner had to worry about having to pay a huge judgment (or buy special SYG insurance thanks to the NRA), it might help translate the problem into a language more people could understand.

I now wonder what happens if I have a George Zimmerman in the Neighborhood Watch of my subdivision. Am I responsible for what he does?

[hlthe2b]

1. If your HOA had officially authorized/sanctioned Zimmerman's actions, then I'd bet yes....

That does not appear to be the case here... He appears to be acting of his own accord--even if there was a wink wink, nod, nod kind of understanding.

I'm not a lawyer, but that is the opinion of several in my family who are.

[Little Star]

7. I think maybe the HOA did approve.....

Read here:http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/os-trayvon-george-zimmerman-voicemail-20120324,0,7339926.story

Taaffe has been one of the few people to speak positively about Zimmerman publicly since the shooting. In a recent interview with the Sentinel, Taaffe defended Zimmerman as "not a racist."

Taaffe, who had been a watch captain with Zimmerman until December, said Zimmerman may have been "overzealous, maybe," but "his main concern is the safety and welfare of the community."

Also, I heard it reported that Zimmerman was trained by the Sanford PD on Neighborhood Watch although he was not a member of the formal National Neighborhood Watch Organization.


edit to add: fyi, Taaffe lives in that same gated community as Zimmerman.

[Little Star]

11. I found a report that says Zimmerman was part of a group...

that is trained by Sanford PD. So this crap might be pretty common down there in Florida.

Bonaparte did acknowledge, however, that Zimmerman was apparently part of a network of local neighborhood watch groups that are trained by the Sanford Police Department and urged “not to engage” with possible suspects or people they encounter.

http://tucsoncitizen.com/usa-today-news/2012/03/20/lawyer-florida-teen-slain-while-on-cellphone/


If this is true, maybe the family can also sue the PD/Town?

[hlthe2b]

16. THAT adds an interesting wrinkle.... n/t

[Little Star]

18. I thought so too. Made me wonder just how well known/friendly...

he was with the Sandford PD. hmmmm

[cherokeeprogressive]

2. I would say lawyers hope so. 30% of the take... yeah, I would think lawyers would be all over that.

Sounds like something lawyers LIVE for.

[ljm2002]

4. Oh for heaven's sake...

...lawyers take 30% on these cases because they get no money up front, and spend hours and $$$ pursuing the case, and sometimes lose and get nothing at all. Often people could not bring these damage suits if they had to pay up front.

I'm not terribly fond of lawyers either -- but then again, when you need one, you're darn glad to have one to negotiate through the legal system for you. And they have to make a living too.

You sound like one of those "tort reform" people. But the fact is, "tort reform" is code for "make it hard or impossible for the little guy to get damages when his life is turned upside down by some out-of-control person or corporation".

[izquierdista]

8. Oh for heaven's sake...

If they "get no money up front, and spend hours and $$$ pursuing the case, and sometimes lose and get nothing at all", why are lawyers like John Edwards multi-millionaires?

[ljm2002]

12. Yes some of them are multi-millionaires...

...and yes some of them overcharge. But that does not contradict the fact that these 30% fees are paid on a contingency basis, with the client(s) paying $0.00 for legal services. If they lose the case, neither the client nor the lawyer sees any money.

Also, while there certainly are hugely wealthy lawyers, they are the exception, just like with most other professions. Anyway it is irrelevant as to whether that 30% contingency fee is fair or not. Given that the lawyers take the risk of getting nothing in return for their professional services (i.e. they may lose the case), I don't think it's all that unfair. Also, as I pointed out, this "filthy rich lawyer" meme is yet another way that the rabid right wing tries to sell tort reform to all of us: "Oh those nasty lawyers making all that money, we don't want that now do we?" -- when their real agenda is to make sure that you and I cannot get adequate compensation when something bad happens due to the negligence of some doctor or corporation.

[COLGATE4]

21. You're absolutely correct. In addition

the canard bitching about the "30 percent" doesn't take into account that this figure isn't set by the lawyer- it is usually set by the State Bar Association, in recognition of the tremendous number of hours that go into any serious litigation. A lawyer cannot charge more than what the State Bar (or in some cases the State Supreme Court) authorizes.

[cherokeeprogressive]

9. I was actually thinking of the class-action advertisements I see on TV all too often...

Where laywers troll for victims.

[ljm2002]

13. Agreed, there are lots of sleazy lawyer ads here as well...

...both class action stuff and ambulance chaser stuff. I may have been a little vehement in my reaction -- sorry. But still I think we should remember that these contingency fee arrangements do allow people like us to retain legal help when we might otherwise be unable to do so.

[appleannie1]

6. I bet lawyers wish it was that simple. The can spend hours doing research, paying office staff,

their rent alone in a large city can be more than most people pay to buy a house and then there is overhead. Yeah, they sure do overcharge. Wink Wink.

[Hugabear]

3. Homeowners should at least know who in their neighborhood has a CCW

People should have a right to know if their neighbor is packing heat.

[no_hypocrisy]

5. Yes if the homeowners allow an individual

to protect them and their property. They would have had to tried to stop him to avoid liability.

[pennylane100]

10. It would depend on the rules for the neighborhood watch and was it an sanctioned organization.

We have one in our community but they only have to power to observe and alert homeowners and, of course, the police.

However, the one where Zimmerman lived may have a problem if some of the stories I read are true. Apparently there were many complaints by his neighbors about his behavior and it was bought up at at least one of the meetings but no action was taken to reign him. I also read that complaints were made by the homeowners to the local police. If that is true, I would say they may have a big problem.

[yardwork]

14. A couple of recent news articles say yes, the HOA may be liable

The killing of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin by a neighborhood watchman in Sanford should be a cautionary tale for homeowners associations, experts say.

The circumstances — a volunteer watchman carrying a gun, and questions over whether he did enough to avoid shooting the unarmed teenager — could put the homeowners association where the incident took place in legal hot water.

And in many cases like this one, the residents don't know they could be liable until a tragedy occurs, when they find out that their homeowners association only carries insurance for directors and board officers, not volunteers who patrol streets or maintain common areas.

"There are ripple effects on everybody in a community," said Donna DiMaggio Berger, a managing partner with the statewide law firm of Katzman Garfinkel & Berger, which represents more than 2,000 homeowners associations. If volunteers take matters into their own hands, "the association is going to get sued."

Berger said if the association knew Zimmerman regularly carried a weapon while on volunteer patrol, that could provide Martin's family with further ammunition in a lawsuit.

The whole article: http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/realestate/experts-warn-homeowners-associations-of-perils-of-using-volunteer-security/1221352

And more in this article: http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/condoblog/author/jawesq/

[Little Star]

19. Thank you for those links.

[LisaL]

15. I think if Zimmerman was not following their rules (not to confront, not to carry a gun)

then Zimmerman is on his own.

[Dan]

17. I think that I read somewhere - that Z was not listed as an official watch person on their registry.

[Little Star]

20. He was not on the "National Neighborhood Watch" but he was...

on the local watch trained by the Sandford PD and so were some of his other gated community neighbors.

[Aerows]

22. If he was authorized by the HOA

Possibly, but as far as I know, Zimmerman wasn't.

I think this is a major stretch, though, and I doubt it would be winnable.

Also, I don't think that you are supposed to carry a gun and confront people while on watch.