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MysticHuman

(219 posts)
Tue Mar 11, 2014, 03:32 PM Mar 2014

If you really want to understand the Ukraine situation

In my opinion the best analysis of the situation between Ukraine and Russia I have come across thus far. It's a fairly long read but covers the subject thoroughly. Obama must be feeling 2016 can't come soon enough as Putin starts his push for retaining power and influence on a global scale knowing that the west can't stop him.

_____________________________________________________________________


"I never expected so many intelligent, perceptive, and influential media and political personalities to so easily fall into Vladimir Putin’s trap. After the initial shock to the world, and especially to the West, following Moscow’s announcements about the possible use of Russian armed forces in Ukraine, and then after being forced to acknowledge that Russia has already occupied Crimea, the West breathed a collective sigh of relief upon hearing Putin’s March 4 press conference, where he suggested Russia doesn’t have any plans to seize eastern Ukraine. I intentionally waited a while to make sure that this would indeed be the prevailing Western reaction after the dust settled—and it was. Western capitals felt encouraged by Putin. In the New York Times, Peter Baker confirmed that “American officials took some solace” after hearing Putin’s explanations. One may suppose that the Europeans, who are much more inclined to forgive Putin than is Washington, have felt more than just relief, but actual satisfaction, at the news."

"Actually, the Kremlin’s tactics against Ukraine are the same ones it used against the Bolotnaya protesters in Russia: The government will use both psychological and physical terror tactics to ensure dominance and guarantee obedience—both here and over there. This is an up-to-date version of the Brezhnev Doctrine used in 1968 against Czechoslovakia, an aggression which was also meant as a warning to Soviet society.

Ukraine has long been Putin’s personal project. The site of a stinging rebuke during the 2004 Orange Revolution, Ukraine now presents an opportunity for the Kremlin to exact revenge for both past and present Maidans, to teach the rebellious Ukrainians a lesson, and to warn Russians about the price of insubordination or attempts to escape the Russian Matrix."


___________________________________________________________________

http://www.the-american-interest.com/articles/2014/03/10/falling-into-putins-trap/



26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
If you really want to understand the Ukraine situation (Original Post) MysticHuman Mar 2014 OP
Don't worry RobertEarl Mar 2014 #1
Well... if you have read the complete article.... MysticHuman Mar 2014 #3
He's no bush RobertEarl Mar 2014 #5
This is an excellent article. EmilyAnne Mar 2014 #2
Thank you EmilyAnne MysticHuman Mar 2014 #4
Are you the one who posted a pic of his daughter and her friends early on in the protests? Just okaawhatever Mar 2014 #12
Yes okaawhatever ... that was a picture of my Daughter MysticHuman Mar 2014 #16
Good article.nt Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #6
History, cause, and effect. Russian aggression is only the "effect" part. newthinking Mar 2014 #7
Agree completely... MysticHuman Mar 2014 #11
where are the articles on Russian imperialism? Bad Thoughts Mar 2014 #13
They are covered extensively in the media newthinking Mar 2014 #14
+ underpants Mar 2014 #8
Mostly neocons writing and managing that magazine. Wilms Mar 2014 #9
The article linked MysticHuman Mar 2014 #10
Seems she's bashing both sides... Wilms Mar 2014 #15
Agreed....thanks for your perspective! MysticHuman Mar 2014 #17
Kudos. joshcryer Mar 2014 #19
An interesting read 1000words Mar 2014 #18
lol... my thoughts also... MysticHuman Mar 2014 #20
Welcome to Kremlinology. joshcryer Mar 2014 #21
Funny, Condoleezza Rice came to mind at one point. 1000words Mar 2014 #23
It sucks that most of the scholars are idiot right wingers. joshcryer Mar 2014 #25
Thank you MysticHuman.. K&R&Bookmarked! Cha Mar 2014 #22
President Obama should take more strong position against Russia Aliceoh Mar 2014 #24
Welcome to the DU Aliceoh! MysticHuman Mar 2014 #26
 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
1. Don't worry
Tue Mar 11, 2014, 03:44 PM
Mar 2014

Russia knows better.

They got their asses kicked out of eastern Europe. They learned their lesson.

MysticHuman

(219 posts)
3. Well... if you have read the complete article....
Tue Mar 11, 2014, 03:56 PM
Mar 2014

you may realize that Putin has a different feeling about things. As the author of the article put it... "In any event, Putin is in bobsled mode. He is hurtling down the track; no one can stop him, and he can no longer reverse course. But the more he acts to preserve his power, the more damage he will inflict on his country."

He has an ego larger than his country and I am fearful where that will bring us and him.

EmilyAnne

(2,769 posts)
2. This is an excellent article.
Tue Mar 11, 2014, 03:52 PM
Mar 2014

It has been very disappointing to see so many on the "left" and the West taking up for Putin's actions and buying into easily disproven Russian propaganda.

As I've said many times before, I have lived in Putin's Russia.
I have seen the shutdown of the free(ish) press, I have seen the rampant attacks on immigrants, minorities and gays be ignored or even celebrated by the "mainstream" Russian media as well as politicians.
I have seen the amping up of "Nashi" style rhetoric on mainstream television shows, in newspapers, in the classrooms where I taught.
I have watched hope turn to crippling fear as many dear minority or gay friends have retreated to living their lives in virtual hiding, going quickly from work to home, work to school, work to one very specific supermarket that seems to be in the safest area so as to avoid attacks from groups of Russian nationalists. Never at night, never at this or that metro station, never past this or that park or square, etc.
Never mind the staggering level of corruption that goes beyond anything I ever imagined.

In my opinion, the key to all of this that is being largely ignored by most of the media is the role of the Orthodox church and Putin's religious awakening in which he truly sees himself as God's anointed leader of the Holy Russian Empire. Patriarch Kirill has made this proclamation many times. This motivator can not be overstated but should definitely be feared.

MysticHuman

(219 posts)
4. Thank you EmilyAnne
Tue Mar 11, 2014, 04:02 PM
Mar 2014

for expressing your personal understanding of Russia. Also for validating what this article has to say.

My own Daughter lives in Kyiv. She sent this article to her friends and family to help us understand the complex and potentially dangerous situation Ukraine is in with Putin and his mentality.

It is a scary thought to think Putin believing himself as a directive from God. That can't be a good thing.

okaawhatever

(9,462 posts)
12. Are you the one who posted a pic of his daughter and her friends early on in the protests? Just
Tue Mar 11, 2014, 04:44 PM
Mar 2014

curious because I've been thinking about her and would love to hear a follow up. The article is good, and I found one I liked on Time's website about the new gov't head of Crimea. I posted it here earlier. This guy, like Putin, has an agenda that involves history, the fall of the USSR and strong nationalism.

MysticHuman

(219 posts)
16. Yes okaawhatever ... that was a picture of my Daughter
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 01:56 AM
Mar 2014

She is doing ok... I have suggested she seriously consider coming back to the U.S. for an extended visit. She says she will give it some thought. She reassures me that they (the company she works for) have a plan that can be executed quickly and her employer has stated they will pay the airfair for anyone who feels the need to leave. She is currently working out of her apartment so she doesn't have to go out into the city very often. She also only goes out with groups of her friends or associates.

After reading this article I am of course concerned with Russia continuing their overtaking Ukraine and of course to take over Kyiv would be a huge step in the wrong direction.

Thanks for asking and for your concern. MH

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
7. History, cause, and effect. Russian aggression is only the "effect" part.
Tue Mar 11, 2014, 04:13 PM
Mar 2014

To understand the situation you have to first look at the history and what caused it to be where it is currently at.


Cause:

CounterPunch: Ukraine: The Sovereignty Argument, and the Real Problem of Fascism
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/10/ukraine-the-sovereignty-argument-and-the-real-problem-of-fascism/


In Ukraine, fascists, oligarchs and western expansion are at the heart of the crisis
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/29/ukraine-fascists-oligarchs-eu-nato-expansion


History:

Lviv: Ukraine’s Monument to Ethnic Cleansing
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/10/lviv-ukraines-monument-to-ethnic-cleansing/






MysticHuman

(219 posts)
11. Agree completely...
Tue Mar 11, 2014, 04:33 PM
Mar 2014

Thanks for the links. Ukraine has a brutal history. One most westerners don't know of and it does play a huge role in the split that is seen in that country today.

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
14. They are covered extensively in the media
Tue Mar 11, 2014, 05:00 PM
Mar 2014

But the only way to provide the "rest of the story" is this way.

As I have said in other places, I am not nearly so interested in the geopolitical nationalist based (Russia, Ukraine, US, EU) narritive. Those narratives are based on primarily military and economic advantage.

My posts are primarily to help people achieve empathy, because simplistic and incomplete coverage eliminates empathy and in the end can create catastrophies. People need to hear the "other side of the situation and history. DU should be a place where empathy is highly valued over narrative.

 

Wilms

(26,795 posts)
9. Mostly neocons writing and managing that magazine.
Tue Mar 11, 2014, 04:15 PM
Mar 2014

Tread carefully, DUers. Have a look at their front page. Not cool.

MysticHuman

(219 posts)
10. The article linked
Tue Mar 11, 2014, 04:32 PM
Mar 2014

is valid. You can judge the site for what it is but this article did not have pro-west nor pro-Russia sentiments. Lilia Shevtsova wrote an intelligent and thorough piece on a difficult to understand topic. Especially those of us from the west.

The rest of the sites articles are for me irrelevant and play no bearing on the validity of this one.

 

Wilms

(26,795 posts)
15. Seems she's bashing both sides...
Tue Mar 11, 2014, 05:34 PM
Mar 2014

Russia for it's activity, and the West because they're not responding aggressively. Given the NeoCon roots of the sight and the author's position, I'm not going to get too excited.

To her credit, she includes herself as part of the rank she believes is incorrectly analyzing the situation. So, points for that.

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
19. Kudos.
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 02:15 AM
Mar 2014

You didn't just dismiss the article because it's a conservative site. I think she's a bit more hopeful at the end than the situation poses. The "unifying" effect that Putin is creating will be to polarize against ethnic Russians and Russian speaking Ukrainians in Ukraine.

 

1000words

(7,051 posts)
18. An interesting read
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 02:11 AM
Mar 2014

At times it was difficult to get past the condescension and a feeling she has an axe to grind.

MysticHuman

(219 posts)
20. lol... my thoughts also...
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 02:16 AM
Mar 2014

I also thought that her expressed concepts of the situation would be hard for the average Faux news type to comprehend.

Thanks for your input!

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
25. It sucks that most of the scholars are idiot right wingers.
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 02:46 AM
Mar 2014

If you even dare look at the history and dare be critical, well, you're boxed in with those idiots.

I still think Rice's analysis is way overrated.

Aliceoh

(6 posts)
24. President Obama should take more strong position against Russia
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 02:45 AM
Mar 2014

Putin has the thought of imperialist in the era of Soviet Union. He seem to want himself be looked like a monarch in the Middle Ages. He believe in power and exert his influence to expand his territory all the time. So, it' s necessary for President Obama to strongly bounce against Putin's challenge to damp his ardor.

MysticHuman

(219 posts)
26. Welcome to the DU Aliceoh!
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 03:12 AM
Mar 2014

The U.S. and Obama cannot do it alone. There has to be a solid consensus from the entire European block and it would help to see China and the Asian countries take a stand as well.

Yet we are far from that happening....hopefully Putin won't step beyond Crimea and Ukraine is able to get the western nations to help the country move forward.

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