General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf you really want to understand the Ukraine situation
In my opinion the best analysis of the situation between Ukraine and Russia I have come across thus far. It's a fairly long read but covers the subject thoroughly. Obama must be feeling 2016 can't come soon enough as Putin starts his push for retaining power and influence on a global scale knowing that the west can't stop him.
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"I never expected so many intelligent, perceptive, and influential media and political personalities to so easily fall into Vladimir Putins trap. After the initial shock to the world, and especially to the West, following Moscows announcements about the possible use of Russian armed forces in Ukraine, and then after being forced to acknowledge that Russia has already occupied Crimea, the West breathed a collective sigh of relief upon hearing Putins March 4 press conference, where he suggested Russia doesnt have any plans to seize eastern Ukraine. I intentionally waited a while to make sure that this would indeed be the prevailing Western reaction after the dust settledand it was. Western capitals felt encouraged by Putin. In the New York Times, Peter Baker confirmed that American officials took some solace after hearing Putins explanations. One may suppose that the Europeans, who are much more inclined to forgive Putin than is Washington, have felt more than just relief, but actual satisfaction, at the news."
"Actually, the Kremlins tactics against Ukraine are the same ones it used against the Bolotnaya protesters in Russia: The government will use both psychological and physical terror tactics to ensure dominance and guarantee obedienceboth here and over there. This is an up-to-date version of the Brezhnev Doctrine used in 1968 against Czechoslovakia, an aggression which was also meant as a warning to Soviet society.
Ukraine has long been Putins personal project. The site of a stinging rebuke during the 2004 Orange Revolution, Ukraine now presents an opportunity for the Kremlin to exact revenge for both past and present Maidans, to teach the rebellious Ukrainians a lesson, and to warn Russians about the price of insubordination or attempts to escape the Russian Matrix."
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http://www.the-american-interest.com/articles/2014/03/10/falling-into-putins-trap/
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Russia knows better.
They got their asses kicked out of eastern Europe. They learned their lesson.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)you may realize that Putin has a different feeling about things. As the author of the article put it... "In any event, Putin is in bobsled mode. He is hurtling down the track; no one can stop him, and he can no longer reverse course. But the more he acts to preserve his power, the more damage he will inflict on his country."
He has an ego larger than his country and I am fearful where that will bring us and him.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Good that you are aware, but Putin is no bush and he'll not repeat history.
EmilyAnne
(2,769 posts)It has been very disappointing to see so many on the "left" and the West taking up for Putin's actions and buying into easily disproven Russian propaganda.
As I've said many times before, I have lived in Putin's Russia.
I have seen the shutdown of the free(ish) press, I have seen the rampant attacks on immigrants, minorities and gays be ignored or even celebrated by the "mainstream" Russian media as well as politicians.
I have seen the amping up of "Nashi" style rhetoric on mainstream television shows, in newspapers, in the classrooms where I taught.
I have watched hope turn to crippling fear as many dear minority or gay friends have retreated to living their lives in virtual hiding, going quickly from work to home, work to school, work to one very specific supermarket that seems to be in the safest area so as to avoid attacks from groups of Russian nationalists. Never at night, never at this or that metro station, never past this or that park or square, etc.
Never mind the staggering level of corruption that goes beyond anything I ever imagined.
In my opinion, the key to all of this that is being largely ignored by most of the media is the role of the Orthodox church and Putin's religious awakening in which he truly sees himself as God's anointed leader of the Holy Russian Empire. Patriarch Kirill has made this proclamation many times. This motivator can not be overstated but should definitely be feared.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)for expressing your personal understanding of Russia. Also for validating what this article has to say.
My own Daughter lives in Kyiv. She sent this article to her friends and family to help us understand the complex and potentially dangerous situation Ukraine is in with Putin and his mentality.
It is a scary thought to think Putin believing himself as a directive from God. That can't be a good thing.
okaawhatever
(9,462 posts)curious because I've been thinking about her and would love to hear a follow up. The article is good, and I found one I liked on Time's website about the new gov't head of Crimea. I posted it here earlier. This guy, like Putin, has an agenda that involves history, the fall of the USSR and strong nationalism.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)She is doing ok... I have suggested she seriously consider coming back to the U.S. for an extended visit. She says she will give it some thought. She reassures me that they (the company she works for) have a plan that can be executed quickly and her employer has stated they will pay the airfair for anyone who feels the need to leave. She is currently working out of her apartment so she doesn't have to go out into the city very often. She also only goes out with groups of her friends or associates.
After reading this article I am of course concerned with Russia continuing their overtaking Ukraine and of course to take over Kyiv would be a huge step in the wrong direction.
Thanks for asking and for your concern. MH
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,188 posts)newthinking
(3,982 posts)To understand the situation you have to first look at the history and what caused it to be where it is currently at.
Cause:
CounterPunch: Ukraine: The Sovereignty Argument, and the Real Problem of Fascism
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/10/ukraine-the-sovereignty-argument-and-the-real-problem-of-fascism/
In Ukraine, fascists, oligarchs and western expansion are at the heart of the crisis
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/29/ukraine-fascists-oligarchs-eu-nato-expansion
History:
Lviv: Ukraines Monument to Ethnic Cleansing
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/10/lviv-ukraines-monument-to-ethnic-cleansing/
MysticHuman
(219 posts)Thanks for the links. Ukraine has a brutal history. One most westerners don't know of and it does play a huge role in the split that is seen in that country today.
Bad Thoughts
(2,525 posts)Or do only one side's excesses count?
newthinking
(3,982 posts)But the only way to provide the "rest of the story" is this way.
As I have said in other places, I am not nearly so interested in the geopolitical nationalist based (Russia, Ukraine, US, EU) narritive. Those narratives are based on primarily military and economic advantage.
My posts are primarily to help people achieve empathy, because simplistic and incomplete coverage eliminates empathy and in the end can create catastrophies. People need to hear the "other side of the situation and history. DU should be a place where empathy is highly valued over narrative.
underpants
(182,848 posts)Marking for later read
Wilms
(26,795 posts)Tread carefully, DUers. Have a look at their front page. Not cool.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)is valid. You can judge the site for what it is but this article did not have pro-west nor pro-Russia sentiments. Lilia Shevtsova wrote an intelligent and thorough piece on a difficult to understand topic. Especially those of us from the west.
The rest of the sites articles are for me irrelevant and play no bearing on the validity of this one.
Wilms
(26,795 posts)Russia for it's activity, and the West because they're not responding aggressively. Given the NeoCon roots of the sight and the author's position, I'm not going to get too excited.
To her credit, she includes herself as part of the rank she believes is incorrectly analyzing the situation. So, points for that.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)You didn't just dismiss the article because it's a conservative site. I think she's a bit more hopeful at the end than the situation poses. The "unifying" effect that Putin is creating will be to polarize against ethnic Russians and Russian speaking Ukrainians in Ukraine.
1000words
(7,051 posts)At times it was difficult to get past the condescension and a feeling she has an axe to grind.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)I also thought that her expressed concepts of the situation would be hard for the average Faux news type to comprehend.
Thanks for your input!
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)1000words
(7,051 posts)Similar rhetoric
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)If you even dare look at the history and dare be critical, well, you're boxed in with those idiots.
I still think Rice's analysis is way overrated.
Cha
(297,427 posts)Aliceoh
(6 posts)Putin has the thought of imperialist in the era of Soviet Union. He seem to want himself be looked like a monarch in the Middle Ages. He believe in power and exert his influence to expand his territory all the time. So, it' s necessary for President Obama to strongly bounce against Putin's challenge to damp his ardor.
MysticHuman
(219 posts)The U.S. and Obama cannot do it alone. There has to be a solid consensus from the entire European block and it would help to see China and the Asian countries take a stand as well.
Yet we are far from that happening....hopefully Putin won't step beyond Crimea and Ukraine is able to get the western nations to help the country move forward.