General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIt's a little sad, really.
The fabled DU of yore created a wonderful catalog of the events surrounding Valeri Plame. Coloquially known here as The Plame Threads.
Here we have all that has yet been revealed by Snowden and rather than creating a resource that we can all reference regarding WTF is going on in our intelligence community, we are wallowing in finger pointing witch hunts for who is the paid troll.
Here is my challenge DU. Let's create a one stop shop to help decode what the programs are, and what they do.
One resource is the EFF timeline.
I don't know anyone that has all the programs mentioned in one place, that would be a good starting point.
enough
(13,262 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)But we havent gotten much participation.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)And thanks for all the effort in the group.
1awake
(1,494 posts)alittlelark
(18,890 posts)... those saying she was a traitor etc....
We used to have far more 'research threads' than we do now. Now it seems to be 'cult of personality' chimpanzee 'poo throwing' contests.
Perhaps directed in that direction by a well financed directorate....
WillyT
(72,631 posts)zeemike
(18,998 posts)It really helps put the whole thing togather....book marked it for later viewing.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)Thank you.
hootinholler
(26,449 posts)And not giving a shit anymore.
Freedom's just another word...
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)to be a very wrong and terrible thing.
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)ConservativeDemocrat
(2,720 posts)Starting with the fact that domestic surveillance had been already been curtailed under Speaker Pelosi.
- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Omg, I love DU! Seen any of the leaked documents lately?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Thanks for this thread, hootnholler.
hootinholler
(26,449 posts)Robert Paulsen or H2OMan might know for sure.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)is good at researching could find it .....
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)into these crimes against the American people? I know there were a few hearings, some weak acknowledgement of wrongdoing, lies from Clapper with no consequences, but this is a HUGE crime against our Constitution and yet, there appears to be nothing but silence from those who swore to 'defend and protect the US Constitution against ALL enemies, both foreign and DOMESTIC'. Seems to me we have more enemies domestically than foreign.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Perhaps the unconstitutional, illegal, immoral, unnecessary and largely-for-blackmail domestic spy operation can lead to its re-establishment.
Thanks for another great thread and proposal, Hoot! Very much appreciate your observations regarding the, uh, change on what DU was and is and could be, again.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)DU is so large now that its hard to get concentration on any one topic the way we used to be able to do, though.
"Progressive Media Resources Group"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1269
Octafish
(55,745 posts)That resource is a treasure.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)claimed "whistleblower" status.
G_j
(40,367 posts)for contradicting the said "whistle blower's" lie?
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)targeted Plame, her husband, their children, Brewster Jennings (and the people working there), and the programs Plame was working on, covertly---
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/15/AR2007031502448_2.html
Her name was released not just because of her husband's work in Niger, but because of her work on WMD in Iraq and Iran....and just who would benefit from removing people from the CIA who could attest to the actual state of WMDs in Iraq and Iran? Remember how Cheney wanted to go to war in Iran, too? How better than to eliminate the people who wouldn't give him the intelligence he wanted?
You really think this was just about Plame? Cheney, et al, targeted an intelligence project they didn't like, to further their own agenda. Sound familiar?
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"I remember when we all wanted Scooter Libby's head for leaking. Maybe he should have claimed 'whistleblower' status."
...a similiar when people were hyping that hack from Fox Noise.
Reporter Says He First Learned of C.I.A. Operative From Rove
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022850304
The hypocrisy is thick, but it doesn't prevent some from trying to distort to claim that others had a different position under Bush.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024562807#post181
During Plame, leaking was treason. Now, it's heroic. Forget that others can see where Snowden went off the rails (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024202440)
From the beginning, it was clear that Snowden broke the law (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023439290). There was a point where even Snowden supporters accepted that he knew he broke the law. Snowden said it himself.
Fleeing the country and releasing state secrets did not help his case.
His actions since then have only made the situation worse.
Whistleblowers have been making that point, some in subtle ways.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023236549
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023035550
Of course, this is dimissed because they're also critical of the NSA. It's as if some think that you can't be against NSA overreach (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023002358) unless you support Snowden.
What's that line thrown out whenever Greenwald is criticized: Were you against Clarke when he went after Bush? Were you for Scooter Libby when he leaked Plame's identity?
Whisp
(24,096 posts)She was regarded as a Hero by the vast majority here.
Now, not so much as she thinks GG is a scammer.
Checkbook Journalism & Leaking to the Highest Bidders
Sibel Edmonds | December 8, 2013
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2013/12/08/checkbook-journalism-leaking-to-the-highest-bidders/
Imagine a major government whistleblower who leaks his evidence and obtained documents to the highest bidders in the mainstream media and mega corporations. Does that sound awful, disgraceful and despicable? Okay. Now, imagine a pseudo journalist who obtains over 50,000 documents from a government whistleblower, and then takes some of this information and puts it out for bid, reserves a certain portion for a lucrative book deal, and saves the rest for a mega corporation that has a record of screwing whistleblowers. How does that sound? This is what I mean by the title of this commentary: Checkbook Journalism & Leaking to the Highest Bidders.
For the past twelve years I have been known as one of the most notorious government whistleblowers, even given the title of The Most Classified Person in the History of the United States by a civil liberties organization. I am the founder and director of a whistleblower organization that includes over 150 national security whistleblowers. I have known and represented over 150 national security whistleblowing cases in Congress and the media. And let me tell you this, I have never seen a case that even comes close to this bizarrely unethical and despicable case.
A government whistleblower obtains over 50,000 pages of documents that implicate the government in severely illegal and unconstitutional practices. This whistleblower risks everything, including fleeing the country, in order to leak these documents and let the public know how its government has been breaking the nations laws and violating their rights. So he goes to another country and then entrusts all this evidence to a few reporters and wanna-be journalists. Why does he do that? He does it so that these reporters will present all this information to the public: not only those in the United States, but everyone all over the world. Think about it. Why else would someone risk everything, including his own life, to obtain and leak such documents? Are you thinking? Because what would be the point to all this, to taking all these risks, if 99% of these documents remain secret and hidden from the public? Ludicrous, right?
- See more at: http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2013/12/08/checkbook-journalism-leaking-to-the-highest-bidders/#sthash.d9zI5lI3.dpuf
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)work of the NSA targeting him.
Sibel is right on this. I think she's wrong and delusional on other things, but nothing erases the fact that Glenn is a pundit in the personal pay of a billionaire.
And check out the sexist rhetoric he uses against Sibel....
http://my.firedoglake.com/jpsottile/2013/12/11/twitter-hosts-epic-war-of-words-over-paypal-nsa-allegations/
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)are coming from.
These heroes exposed Libby's Bosses crimes, and had they just been able to do it in 2004 there would not have been a voice raised against them here, they would have been treated the same way as Drake was back by the 'left'.
Libby unfortunately got away with protecting the War Criminals and they are not fond of Snowden for dragging some of their crimes against the people back into the public spotlight again. Maybe they should get used to it, people don't like to see war criminals get off scott free, except for those who support them of course.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Tell me...do you still think that Anwar Awlaki was a non-violent cleric who was preaching in the US 2 years before his death?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2030914&mesg_id=2031464
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)the charges, you know the way we usually, USED to do things here before Bush's criminal lawyers twisted the law to adjust to the 'new america'. Charges would have been nice, then evidence presented somewhere, a court of law would be preferable, and then a conviction. I still believe in the rule of law and never will support Bush's 'doctrine' that the US President has the powers of a king, to order the murder of anyone without even filing charges somewhere.
Thanks for reminding me of how work needs to be done in order to restore the rule of law to this country. It's not just the massive illegal spying on the American people.
Btw, remember the murder of the US teenager, what were the charges against him? His grandparents tried to find out, but there was to be no justice for them, at least up to now.
As for what I think of where you stand, THIS comment confirms my opinion of where you stand, your own words.
You support the unitary executive 'theory' NO?? Correct me if I am wrong AND you did compare those who EXPOSED Bush's crimes to the criminals themselves, did I misread your words?
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)some his speeches from the 2009 sermons you think he did in this country.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)We have a whole slew of tea baggers calling for revolution here. For the removal of this president from office. What you are saying is they too should be on a 'kill list'? I'm just trying to understand your position on the rule of law and on Bush's policies. This comment of yours refers to a citizen who was assassinated, and you appear to be justifying it by pointing to his speeches. I assume that you support the DP then without charges.
Sorry, that is a very dangerous path to go down imho and there is no way I supported it under Bush, before Bush or after Bush.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)the man you call a "non-violent cleric."
And I totally want to hear what he had to say in the US in 2009.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)killing of a US citizen without charge or trial? Did you support that under Bush because at least that would be consistent. I'm having a hard time getting a response but if that is your position, that making speeches and giving sermons warrants an order of the DP by the US President, so be it, I could not disagree with you more if I tried.
Btw, do you have some documentation of the charges against Awlaki? I'd like to review them to see exactly what he was charged with. But I've asked for that before, as have many, many people and have yet to see them. Or the charges against his teenaged son justifying his killing. I know it was called an 'accident' in which case I would have expected that his grand parents would have been compensate. Were they compensated? I don't recall that.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)"non-violent cleric." Seriously....can't wait to hear the 2009 material from America.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Which leads back to the ISSUE, are we now at a point in the US where Bush's 'theory' which we on the Left vehemently opposed, and most still do btw, where a US President has the powers of a King, remember back in those dark old days when Kings could order the death of someone who offended them without charges or trial, to simply put people on a secret 'kill list' then order their deaths without any charges filed, anywhere for the public to review, such as a Court of Law eg?
It appears there is now some support for Bush's policies regarding the powers of the US President to simply order someone killed without charges, even on the left.
How sad because we were depending on the left to be able to put a stop to those egregious policies. Still, I'm hopeful, there is growing concern now across the political spectrum for the lack of respect for the rule of law. Hopefully we can replace those in Congress who have either remained silent on these most important issues, or outwardly supported them.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)forward to it.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)That way I can judge whether I should give credence to their opinions on such matters. Thank you for clarifying.
hootinholler
(26,449 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Behind the Curtain: Booz Allen Hamilton and its Owner, The Carlyle Group
Written by Bob Adelmann
The New American; June 13, 2013
According to writers Thomas Heath and Marjorie Censer at the Washington Post, The Carlyle Group and its errant child, Booz Allen Hamilton (BAH), have a public relations problem, thanks to NSA leaker and former BAH employee Edward Snowden. By the time top management at BAH learned that one of their top level agents had gone rogue, and terminated his employment, it was too late.
For years Carlyle had, according to the Post, nurtured a reputation as a financially sophisticated asset manager that buys and sells everything from railroads to oil refineries; but now the light from the Snowden revelations has revealed nothing more than two companies, parent and child, bound by the thread of turning government secrets into profits.
And have they ever. When The Carlyle Group bought BAH back in 2008, it was totally dependent upon government contracts in the fields of information technology (IT) and systems engineering for its bread and butter. But there wasn't much butter: After two years the companys gross revenues were $5.1 billion but net profits were a minuscule $25 million, close to a rounding error on the companys financial statement. In 2012, however, BAH grossed $5.8 billion and showed earnings of $219 million, nearly a nine-fold increase in net revenues and a nice gain in value for Carlyle.
Unwittingly, the Post authors exposed the real reason for the jump in profitability: close ties and interconnected relationships between top people at Carlyle and BAH, and the agencies with which they are working. The authors quoted George Price, an equity analyst at BB&T Capital: "[Booz Allen has] got a great brand, they've focused over time on hiring top people, including bringing on people who have a lot of senior government experience." (Emphasis added.)
For instance, James Clapper had a stint at BAH before becoming the current Director of National Intelligence; George Little consulted with BAH before taking a position at the Central Intelligence Agency; John McConnell, now vice chairman at BAH, was director of the National Security Agency (NSA) in the 90s before moving up to director of national intelligence in 2007; Todd Park began his career with BAH and now serves as the country's chief technology officer; James Woolsey, currently a senior vice president at BAH, served in the past as director of the Central Intelligence Agency; and so on.
BAH has had more than a little problem with self-dealing and conflicts of interest over the years. For instance in 2006 the European Commission asked the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and Privacy International (PI) to investigate BAHs involvement with President George Bushs SWIFT surveillance program, which was viewed by that administration as just another tool in its so-called War on Terror. The only problem is that it was illegal, as it violated U.S., Belgian, and European privacy laws. BAH was right in the middle of it. According to the ACLU/PI report,
Though Booz Allens role is to verify that the access to the SWIFT data is not abused, its relationship with the U.S. Government calls its objectivity significantly into question. (Emphasis added.)
Among Booz Allens senior consulting staff are several former members of the intelligence community, including a former Director of the CIA and a former director of the NSA.
As noted by Barry Steinhardt, an ACLU director, Its bad enough that the [Bush] administration is trying to hold out a private company as a substitute for genuine checks and balances on its surveillance activities. But of all companies to perform audits on a secret surveillance program, it would be difficult to find one less objective and more intertwined with the U.S. government security establishment. (Emphasis added.)
CONTINUED w Links n Privatized INTEL...
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15696-behind-the-curtain-booz-allen-hamilton-and-its-owner-the-carlyle-group
KoKo
(84,711 posts)are all reaching. And they go back to the huge and ever-growing Military/Media/Industrial/Banking Enterprise.
That there aren't more investigations and outrage is because it's been so downplayed and "propaganda/disinfo" by the clever MMIBE about Snowden being a "Russian Spy" and Greenwald being portrayed as a "money grubbing, fame seeking, hack (That meme is even seen around here at times.) Plus, the MSM doesn't report in depth the way sites like "Democracy Now" (rarely referenced here on DU) and some of the International and Indy US Media have reported. Add in that most Americans are working so hard and so stressed out they just can't get into what is such a complicated story that their MSM can't make more simple for them because they are involved themselves.
So...there's all that.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)profiteering warmongers.
In a real democracy, laws would prevent all these private war profiteers from ever getting close to the reigns of power because to anyone with the intelligence of a fly, the conflict of interest is so glaring.
The real question is, I know we expected this from Republicans, but why were so many of these war profiteers kept on once the people threw out Republicans? Wasn't that what we all worked so hard for?
And why has Clapper not been held accountable for his lies to Congress?
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Thanks for posting!
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)I posted it a few times, but discussion was scant at best...And LOL at how many people only woke up to the NSA issue when Snowden came on the scene; or Greenwald acting like none of the conventional US media had the stones to do any investigative reporting on the topic...
The information has long been out there in plain sight for anyone who had their eyes open...
JustAnotherGen
(31,866 posts)Thanks for posting