General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo I have a day off tomorrow and it's going to be 75. Can I wear my swim suit?
Last edited Thu Feb 20, 2014, 02:57 AM - Edit history (1)
Apparently according to DU, I will become a sex object. When I go into the ocean to swim my breasts will float up because the water will act sort of like anti-gravity. Oh I won't be paid a nice sum for modeling, nor will it help my career as an actress.
Can we stop this nonsense once and for all?
elleng
(130,974 posts)Why post this?
frazzled
(18,402 posts)The OP doesn't understand that she's free to do or wear whatever she wants.
What was objectionable to many women here was posting the swimsuit pictures HERE, in order for all the male posters to publicly oogle over the airbrushed tushies and make lacivious comments.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)It's not a big reveal.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)This is a progressive web site, and GD is not the lounge. If people want to buy the magazine and jerk off to it in private, that's fine. To post the images here, and invite oogling commentary, is a specific act of objectifying women in the public sphere. That's not fine.
It was not an innocent discussion: it was intended as a group jerk off.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)and the most important is the human nude. Now I find we do a different art in our day and age. Those photos aren't to be jerked off to. They are a collaboration of composition, color, lighting and yes enhancements, but they are art and the people who do them are artists. Unfortunately, our market driven society seems to be only able to fund this art as a sales tool. Sad, isn't it.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)It's just an excuse.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)And none on how to draw hands.
Wait. What?
Cleita
(75,480 posts)instructions. In my drawing class, we started with hands and feet. I don't know who was instructing you.
hunter
(38,317 posts)... we had to do "nude" but with hands and feet. No cheating.
I drew myself and modeled for that too.
My hands and feet are much tougher to draw these days than my "naughty bits."
Years later now I'm even more gnarly and scarred, so the difficulty of the assignment would be much greater.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)hands for an exercise. Gnarly old hands and feet are so much more interesting to do than smooth, young ones. I too am too arthritic anymore to draw well so I've taken up weaving. It'd difficult but easier to get the result you want than with traditional media.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)You just have to show them yours.
CrispyQ
(36,478 posts)especially when the bodies are morphed into shapes & forms that real women don't have, unless they starve themselves & sometimes not even then. It's more than just the SI issue. It's the saturation of the objectivity & the unhealthy images that is the problem. As evidenced by the fact that a DUer thought it would be acceptable to present the cover in the manner they presented it, to ogle & drool.
And you're wrong about the cover being jerked off to.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)And I never said the cover was being jerked off to. It was a member of the HOF group who called it a "wankfest". Please get your facts right before you make accusations.
CrispyQ
(36,478 posts)I thought you said the SI issue wasn't being jerked off to, but I think you were actually referring to great works of art? My bad.
However, the HOF member was right - the SI cover is a wankfest & that's the purpose of it. And that was the purpose the OP of the thread intended, as well.
Have a great day at the beach.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)by making the effort. It was a HOF member who said it was being jerked off to.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Who's being offensive now?
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)I also found that comment really, really offensive and I hope it gets hidden.
edbermac
(15,941 posts)Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)JI7
(89,252 posts)giving unwanted attention.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)...and nobody noticing. Seriously, good luck with that.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)If you are elsewhere I'm sure they will look. But I look twice at people who are fully clothed at the beach when it's warm. Suspicious!
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Those might be the dreaded oglers® we've heard so much about of late!
Squinch
(50,955 posts)walk into your local Democratic political organization office.
Oh, and present your ass as you enter.
Let us know how that goes.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)JI7
(89,252 posts)msongs
(67,420 posts)Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)lacivious comments".
I can wait.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)nt
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Oh, wait, except those were the people who were angry about the bikinis.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)No man was saying anything derogatory or demeaning about the women in the SI magazine.
But what do I know. All the men do is participate in "wank fests" around here.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)I have no self-control. Presented with bikini pictures, I'm doomed to masturbate, apparently.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)as for claiming ignorance of what's been happening on DU, you were all over those related threads. the idea that you don't know...not credible.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)Scruffy Rumbler
(961 posts)dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Or this today ? I'm on GMT.
elleng
(130,974 posts)Was a few weeks ago, but I appreciate the sentiment!
rufus dog
(8,419 posts)What is going to be 75%?
Cleita
(75,480 posts)edbermac
(15,941 posts)edit: On my MAC it's SHIFT OPTION 8 = 75°
I learned something useful today. I used to come to DU to learn but it's getting harder these days. so thanks. I have a mac by option do you mean that option is typed?
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Also called the "alt" key. Press the Shift key, the Option key, and the 8 key at the same time to get the symbol for degrees.°
Cleita
(75,480 posts)edbermac
(15,941 posts)And you get this °
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)A bonus that eHow missed, for the 17 people out there who, like me, still use WordPerfect: You get into the symbols menus with Ctrl+W (that is, hold down the Control key and type W). Then you type 6,36 in the Number field and select "Insert and close" (or just "Insert" if you want to add more symbols).
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)edbermac
(15,941 posts)Hubba hubba.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Enjoy.
I'll even post pictures of my 70+ friends. When you get to this age, you really don't care what others think.
1000words
(7,051 posts)Still a woman, and like many things of beauty, they get better with time.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)And to some, you may be considered to be "oogling" ... and you may even wank off, too!! Have you no decency!
1000words
(7,051 posts)I'm going to post a link because apparently, the image is offensive. You have been warned:
http://www.celebuzz.com/photos/bikini-bodies-of-all-ages/helen-mirren/
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)And if it is, then I'd like to be offended more often.
You don't even count! No man cares about you wearing a bikini!
Really? You are taking this line at age 74? Irrelevant! Men themselves don't want you to wear the bikini!
Cleita
(75,480 posts)If you don't get it, I can't explain.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Are you trying to frighten the young men?
Cleita
(75,480 posts)No need to be cruel, is there?
treestar
(82,383 posts)You'd subject yourself to some rude stares and comments. Plus, I couldn't wear one either (at 54), so I can talk.
polly7
(20,582 posts)As should every 74, 54 or 34 y/o be able to without other women telling her such ugly, demeaning things.
That was just a bullshit, mean post .... but completely typical.
treestar
(82,383 posts)And they would - without sounding like a feminist?
polly7
(20,582 posts)While sounding like a fucking asshole.
And, speaking of fucked up juries:
JURY RESULTS
A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Thu Feb 20, 2014, 01:47 AM, and voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT ALONE.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The OP kicked off the thread as a light-hearted spoof of some recent DU threads - I'm giving the poster the benefit of the doubt and assume she/he is responding in the same vein.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Insensitive. People can wear what they want and are beautiful.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Damn, that's rude...
Thank you.
How long do you think a dreaded man, or one of the women you all hate so much here would last posting sexist, ageist, sickening garbage like you did?
treestar
(82,383 posts)how would you call out a man who insulted a less than perfect woman in a bikini or anything other revealing? You think there are no men who would do that? You went to a lot of trouble just to avoid that question.
You pretended to take my post literally. I explained I am not an attractive woman. The point was about the men who would make the ageists comments. Why can't you deal with that issue?
polly7
(20,582 posts)YOU did. There were no men involved.
Reminds me of being accused of being one of the 'naughty-word police' after objecting to the use of the word *toilet here to describe women ...... because that's just what 'men' think.
I didn't pretend to take your post literally - I did, and it made my stomach churn to see that kind of cruelty towards another woman. Pathetic, and nice try at your attempt to deflect it onto some invisible man.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)of our would-be censors?
Cleita
(75,480 posts)However, I have an 83 year old friend whose been athletic her whole life. She still goes skiing and swims every day in a bikini and frankly she looks terrific, better than a lot of women half her age. I'm sure she would be accused by some of causing those awful men to jerk off.
1000words
(7,051 posts)And I mean that in the most gender-neutral way.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Poor pitty is just gonna have to chew on the ankle of some pervert who tries to manhandle me.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)kcr
(15,317 posts)Oh, wait. No one was saying that. Never mind.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)all kinda of horrible things will result. Really, those women aren't allowed to wear swimsuits to do their job which is to pose professionally in fashion.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)it wasn't about the models...it was about the posting of it ON DU specifically so that the Wankfest could be shared...
Cleita
(75,480 posts)going on? Skype maybe? NSA spyware? What's wrong with wanking anyway?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)are we all wrong?
Cleita
(75,480 posts)There is nothing wrong with wanking. Those girls know they will be appreciated and they involved themselves willingly.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)no one cares that they model for a living!
You missed the point entirely....
Cleita
(75,480 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)you are out of your element.....
Orrex
(63,216 posts)Nicely done.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)The jury didn't hide it, so it's real easy to find.
She isn't being attacked, she's being criticized for mocking feminist issues. She has the gall to admit feminist work isn't done, then turns around and mocks and insults the women who are still fighting to change things for the better.
And meanwhile she's also attacking feminists whose battles she mocks and minimizes.
Still straining at gnats...
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)Point out one post where a man was participating in a "wankfest" in the original thread.
I can wait.
You're just as offensive as the other poster above.
FYI, the original SI swimsuit thread WAS STARTED BY A WOMAN!
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)I can wait.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)this stuff never gets old!
"objectification" and what it does to the psyche of women.....
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)The burden of proof is on you.
Point me to a post where a bunch of men from DU were oogling the women and talking about how they were going to participate in a "wank fest" together over the photos.
I can wait.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)She knows here assertions are false.
mythology
(9,527 posts)then yes you should have to prove it. Otherwise, you're really just making things up. Which does sort of make it hard to believe you. Perhaps you've heard the one about the boy who cried wolf.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"because men can't help but participate in "wankfests" online...."
So the "urges" often used to rationalize vulgar behavior are or are not controllable?
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)All men do is whip it out and participate in wankfests when images of nude or bikini-clad women come up on our computer monitors.
kcr
(15,317 posts)They last longer. Rinse them out immediately, especially if you've been swimming in a pool. So far, no horrible swim suit problems for me.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)It's not about the models. It's about posting it and ogling over them in a public place and creating a hostile environment for women.
You at least realize that women are discriminated against and objectified, right?
treestar
(82,383 posts)Really? 75% what?
No, if you'd like to be an object, fine, yet I wonder if you really will be. Do tell us if you get any wolf whistles or cat calls and tell us how they validate your existence.
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)those s-word things out there! In the water. I don't think I could ever swim in the ocean again.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I don't got that far out these days, anyway.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)R B Garr
(16,954 posts)and those things are lurking pretty close. In one video, the shark was really close and checking him out back and forth for awhile. They are out there! Stuff of nightmares. I used to love ocean swimming.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)If you like it, I like it.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)If in a year, I live to 75, I'm getting a tattoo that says I lived that long.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)As a bonus, I will give you this... ° or this ˚.
I know, I know. Key commands are so h-a-a-a-rd.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)going to be so jealous.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)FYI, a google search of "old ladies bikinis" reveals the vast majority of people do not want to see you in one.
THAT IS OBJECTIFICATION!!!!! That you, yourself, are comfortable in eschewing societal objectification does not mean it doesn't exist and the pressures to conform are not real.
To be relevant, perhaps you should check out the twitter hash tag #everydaysexism or @everydaysexism to understand what your younger sisters think about this issue.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)a snow suit. We are old and in the way. So fuck you. I will wear or not wear what I want until you or someone like you decides to stick a pillow over my face to shut me up.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)old people (and very young people) are just people to hang out with and have fun. We all see each other no matter the age,
Cleita
(75,480 posts)dependent on you.
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)4:44 AM
Automated Message
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
On Thu Feb 20, 2014, 09:00 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
FYI most people would rather not see an old person whether in a bikini or in
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4532674
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
" So fuck you"
Yep, over the line.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Feb 20, 2014, 09:44 AM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: "you or someone like you decides to stick a pillow over my face to shut me up" goes too far as well. Suggesting another DUer wants them dead is unacceptable. The 2 may be having an argument, but there should be limits.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Bah! I like cleita and i am an old fart! Wear you want girl, this old man not gainsay ya! perhaps tone the F to a S tho....
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
seaglass
(8,173 posts)a juror likes you or not.
Thanks for posting the results ITW. I hope all the jurors who voted to leave it are ashamed.
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)Is should be about right and wrong but sometimes it isn't.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)Katy 2013-11-10 23:50
I work in a tearoom. The other day an old man and his wife came in. As the wife was on the other side of the room, looking at the cake trolley, the husband asked me "what have you got to offer me today then?" In the moment I took to pause and think about the menu, he answered his own question with "sex?" I always thought I'd respond aggressively in a situation like that, but I was too flustered and embarrassed for the wife, so said nothing.
#55031. 2013-11-10 22:23
Me, a 19 year old girl and my female friend were walking down the street in the evening, in the dark.. A group of 30-40 year old men shouted "shall we make two girls feel really uncomfortable?" and proceeded to shout rape at the top of their voices repeatedly and howling with laughter. This not only is extremely sexist and shows the pleasure men get from feeling like they are in control.. But it also shows the disregard they have for such a serious horrible act that millions of people have suffered from. Absolutely disgraceful..
#55030J 2013-11-10 20:24
Walking home from the train station along dead quiet streets and a man going past says 'hello, good morning' (this was at 7pm!) and then goes 'you are so sexy', despite me being all wrapped up in a jumper, jeans, and coat. After walking away thinking nothing of it, I realised he was now following me. Panicked and almost ran into a restaurant to feel safe. Could not have felt better the minute I arrived home.
#55029aily 2013-11-10 19:17
i was walking home from college and had a pencil thrown at me accompanied by the term of endearment "slut" from a passing car full of teenage boys.
#55028Marissa 2013-11-10 18:22
A guy volunteered to walk me home after a party. As we walked, he kept using the word "faggot" which grossed me out. And then when we finally got to my house, he wanted to hug me goodbye, during which he grabbed my ass with both hands and pulled me toward him. I felt so violated.
#55027elle 2013-11-10 14:23
When I was about 13/14 I was volunteering in a charity shop, working at the till, and an elderly man approached me with a pair of binoculars and said "these would be great for standing outside you room at night". I was horrified but my co-worker (also an older man), instead of sticking up for me, laughed. I felt so embarrassed and I went to hide in the back of the shop, but because my co-worker hadn't stood up for me I thought it was my fault for not being able to take a joke
#55026P 2013-11-10 13:58
Last night I was waiting in line to order a drink at a bar (it was probably only around 10.00pm so it was quite early) there was a guy stood next to me. He kept bumping into me on purpose and I said nothing- at the time I didn't think too much about it. But, then he started using the back of one of his hands to rub against one of my breasts. I could see him winking. Again I said nothing. I was so angry instead of making it clear that, that kind of behaviour is completely inappropriate I pathetically ordered a double vodka and coke and then ran back to my friend. I think what was worse was seeing his friends smirking and eyeing me up and down as I was walking away with my drink. At that moment I felt uncomfortable and very unattractive. Next time an incident occurs like that again I hope I have the confidence to stand up for myself and say no. Unfortunately, too many of us don't react because we fear that no one will believe us or take the incident seriously.
#55025Sophia 2013-11-10 13:30
On the tube a man around 40 starts chatting up two 16 year old girls. One of them turns round and asks him "Are you too insecure to chat up women your own age?" Fantastic response.
#55024Edith 2013-11-10 12:03
I'm an older woman in her 50's. When I went to art college back in the 80's. I was laughed at and put down because I didn't know how to use a hammer properly. In one tutorial my art was described as decorative and therefore dismissed. I was told by one tutor, with whom I was sharing a taxi with that he'd 'fuck' me if I did not have a skin disease. As Germane Greer says...Women just don't realise how much men hate them. At this age you have the experience of realising that is often the case. So my advice is to always visualise men in short trousers to guard your good self and to remember they do not experience the world as you do. So often they are clueless and desensitised.
#55023SK 2013-11-10 10:46
While working as a kitchen hand, I had the sexist male waiter hitting on me and telling me his dick inside me would make me more relaxed. When I retaliated he would have to find it first, he threatened to remove my nipples with a pair of pliers and then made the motion in the direction of my chest. The head chef threw him out for making me angry and disrupting the kitchen.
#55022R.H. 2013-11-10 10:25
I went to a meeting because I was concerned about workplace bullying and in an attempt to make me feel better the manager gave an example where one of her collages makes fairly derogatory comments about women on a regular basis but she just 'laughs it off because that's the way he is'. The shocking part is people thought I was overreacting by being offended by this.
#55021Melanie 2013-11-10 10:15
a father jeered on his 8 year old son to call me 'sexy' on public transport. I was shocked and said that i didn't think it was appropriate. He thought it was funny and told me to lighten up. 'what was I going to do when his son was older and had more things to say'
Anyone who thinks that we object to the wearing of swimsuits and not to how those women in swimsuits are treated, really have a problem with their reading comprehension.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)We never put up with bad treatment from "objectifiers" and most of those turkeys were pretty much ostracized from the social scene not to mention the scene. It depends on your lifestyle and my younger days were pretty much spent at the beach when I wasn't at school or working. So I was in a swim suit a lot as were my friends and classmates. You are only a sex object when you allow it to happen to you.
Honestly! Grow up.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)So women who encounter this kind of behavior should blame themselves if it bothers them, is that what you are saying? When your boss makes jokes about 'hitting dat ass' and your colleagues laugh along with him, when guys tell you they want to start groping you at the bus stop and follows you home, when guys touch your boobs at a bar without your permission - all of that is is only harmful to you if you let it, and if you are more "grown up", you'd be perfectly fine with it, or at least able to fight it.
That's a load of victim-blaming tripe, Cleita.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I have never been victimized like you seem to think all women who put on a swim suit or make-up or a short skirt are. I think you people are sick. Sure there are the usual jerks who are out of line. Usually, someone brings them into line, quickly. I don't know what awful misogynist world you live in unless it's in some religious compound somewhere. Magazines are just that pictures and stories on paper. Really, what sick world do you live in?
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)I didn't include the rape at 10, the flashing at 12, the comments at all ages. Women on DU have posted on it many times, describing how street harassment started as soon as they neared puberty, how many of us have been raped, molested, harassed. The sick world I live in is reality, where women are conditioned through harassment, a world I am trying to change. When you say that what is wrong isn't how I and other women were and are treated, but how we react to it - well, that tells me everything I need to know about you.
Would you say the same to others who are treated badly? Children who are bullied, minorities who are discriminated against, is the main problem how they react to their treatment rather than how they are treated? Should they grow up too?
Cleita
(75,480 posts)victimized. But much of this, here on DU, isn't about that. It's about a certain tribe trying to hurt everyone else who doesn't agree with them. You have my sympathy, but I don't think a stupid magazine causes all the ills of the world or a skimpy bathing dress. I was watching the pretty girls skating on the Olympics tonight in skimpy tight costumes. Do you think they are inspiring guys to wank off? Maybe some perverts are. That's a given, but should everyone be denied this appreciation of awesome skill and art because of some perverts?
About bullies and discrimination, oh yes I'm all for ending it, but will we really get rid of our jock culture to end it? I doubt it. People will still want to watch sports and they should be able to.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)Challenging the magazine, or rather the posting of it here, where it is inappropriate, is an opportunity to educate people on the effects of these pictures, on both men and women. SI has had 66 covers with female athletes, and 50 of models in bikinis in the last 50 years. You think that supports the idea that women are awesome athletes? When every other picture you see of women (and that is a serious under-estimation) are of them sub-dressed, showing cleavage or in sexy poses -in many cases all three - what does that do to our view of women? You don't think that has any effect on equality?
The example you bring up of figure skating I don't find very effective, simply because female figure skaters are agents, subjects, not things to be ogled. They go out on the ice and do stuff, and their costumes aren't skimpy as much as aerodynamic, even if they do simulate showing skin by using flesh-colored parts of their costume. No one can deny that these women are awesome athletes - but then they do much more than stick their butt out, look over their shoulders with a come-hither look, and stand stock still while everyone looks at them.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)JTFrog
(14,274 posts)It's all roses and sunshine in your world is it? Is misogyny just a made up word to you? Not that it really matters. We wouldn't want you to waste your beautiful mind thinking about the victims of a "sick world" you've never had to deal with.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I'm seventy four years old. I went through the forties, fifties, sixties, and seventies when the real women's rights fights went on. I'm on my own right now, an old woman with a cat and a computer, wondering how to make my Social Security stretch out. Nobody helps me or coddles me. A lot of the privileges women enjoy today is because my generation fought for them. It wasn't enough, I know, but we did our best, with no union representation, no organizations giving a shit and no help from the establishment. I fought off unwelcome attention when I couldn't complain to the boss about it. I would have been considered a whiner or worse, it would have been my fault for enticing the attention.
It never stopped me from wearing what I wanted, going where I wanted and standing up to jerks who insulted me anymore than I'm going to put up with it here from you and your ilk. Take your roses and sunshine and stick them up where no sun shines.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)their turn to fight. You say "It wasn't enough, I know", yet here you are in the face of those who fought that same fight and those that are fighting the fight of their generation.
"It never stopped me"
Well lucky you. Wish I could say the same. Me and my ilk. Yea, us women who have been beaten, raped and left for dead really ought to just give up and just leave it at "It wasn't enough". Like I said, don't waste your precious mind on me and my ilk and the "sick world" we have barely survived. Just keep telling us how it's all about you.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)"The usual jerks who get out of line."
Yes, they're always there. The usual jerks.
And, "Usually, someone brings them into line, quickly."
Usually, but not always. And if someone has to bring them into line, then you know that they do get out of line.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)with telling others "fuck you" and "shove it where no sun shines".
But hey, the jury system and community standards make DU the #1 progressive site on the net these days.
NOT.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)because the ones who are pigs will be pigs no matter what, so you need to shove them back in their place. I was a bartender for ten years and I was accosted with a lot of misogynist bull shit and I made them behave or leave. Most bullies are cowards and once you face them they really do back off. I also had back-up but isn't this what it's about?
I still really see nothing wrong with the SI cover. It was more suggestion than actual flesh. I don't think most guys get into a mood looking at it or Playboy. Here at DU most of them will tell you that.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)and the problem with the SI cover is that GD isn't the place for it. The Kate Upton thing was intentionally put up to provoke people. Sometimes people post this stuff intentionally as misogynist bullshit. And some of the women here are telling them to behave, and they're getting backup.
But of course guys "get into a mood" looking at it, and Playboy. That's the point of it. But I don't care if guys get aroused. People keep saying that we're complaining about sexuality and that isn't the case. The issue is that people keep posting stuff intentionally to create a hostile atmosphere. I'm not sure the SI cover was posted for that reason, though I do think it's a Lounge post and not a GD post, but the Kate Upton thing absolutely was posted intentionally to make GD hostile. And that is some of that misogynist bullshit you're talking about.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)If I were behind the bar, I would tell any guy who was getting out of line with a woman to cut it out or leave. But this is cyberspace and a message board. If you feel they are posting things to create a hostile atmosphere then confront them about it instead of whining. The only Kate Upton post I saw was the one Will Pitt posted and I didn't consider it hostile but I didn't follow it. Boring. But what do I know.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)It seems you automatically equate women stating their opinions on feminist matters such as the SI cover as whining. In that case, we can't win for losing, can we.
eShirl
(18,494 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)snarky posts like I'm getting here. Then use your ignore button and move on. IGNORE is your friend if you are offended.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)The SI cover isn't wrong in and of itself, what is wrong is that women are pretty much always portrayed in that way. That affects our girls and boys, in the wrong way. These kinds of pictures are overwhelmingly what girls see portrayed in media - women dressed skimpily/inappropriately/provocatively, or only female body parts, even. We want covers with female athletes, politicians, scientists, teachers, actresses. Did you see the Esquire covers of Bill Clinton and Halle Berry?
[IMG][/IMG]
Why is Halle Berry half-naked, without a pair of pants and a shirt? Do you deny that this is typical?
And it was the wrong place to post it - this is a place where men and women gather to discuss politics. If you wouldn't get out the issue in the middle of a co-ed gathering in your own home, at work, or at a Democratic party meeting, and start commenting on the 'beauty' of the models, why would you do it on a Democratic message board? Especially after many women who post here said that it made them feel uncomfortable?
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I have always know that DU is a tough venue. It doesn't matter where you are going here, it a tough slog. So I feel uncomfortable a lot, but I don't expect people to change because of me. Also, since you guys have your own forums to feel comfortable in why do you want to come somewhere to be uncomfortable? I don't understand.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)It isn't that HOF is an area for women to feel comfortable, and GD is for men to feel comfortable, and if it's a "tough venue" and a "tough slog" just go where you're comfortable. That is the very definition of a hostile environment. GD should not be a hostile environment.
eShirl
(18,494 posts)This.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)I swear this is some weird bizzaro version of DU I've logged into.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I find it tough because you are expected to have your facts right not because all those mean guys are picking on me.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Is creating a hostile environment, once again.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Look in the mirror. You are creating the hostile environment for yourself. To accuse other DUers of picking on you when they disagree with you is unfair to them and you.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)But lots of women - and men - here at DU have been. It's nothing to be flippant about.
And there were well over a hundred people agreeing that these posts create a hostile environment. It isn't just me.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)For one thing, I know that if you were being verbally sexually harassed, for real, the offending poster would find themselves kicked off this website. I have seen it happen in the past. Anything else is in your head and I think a psychologist would agree.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)And not in my imagination, and psychologists are well aware of it.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)The popularity of this kind of stupid bullshit is why we are still fighting these battles.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)statement I have ever seen on DU. And that's saying something.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)it's pretty damn close. It is like saying "it's only homophobia if you allow it to happen to you", or "it's only racism if you allow it to happen to you". Maybe a kid that gets the shit beaten out of them is only being bullied because they allowed it to happen? Jesus.
I didn't weigh in on the other threads because I don't like to get into these types of arguments on DU, but that particular comment stood out in stark relief as an example of how detached some folks can be from the reality that exists for other people.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)objectification and obfuscation.
And you mock bathing suits!
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Autumn
(45,107 posts)Just ignore the fact that I'm sitting here by the fire while the wind and snow is blowing like a ...... . I will just pout and whimper all day.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I would send you sun in exchange for the snow/water we so need here in California.
Autumn
(45,107 posts)the moisture we have been getting. I wish I could share it with you.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)Your question makes no sense at all.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)keys I need. The percentage thing was close to but not.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)is not the same as the percentage sign.
If the symbol isn't available, why not write out the words?
added on edit:
Why would the temperature outside matter? If you want to wear a bathing suit, wear one.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)What a stupid OP.
You are completely unaware of the issue, obviously. And this is exactly why women speaking out about the objectification and oppression can not and will not stop.
Would you post something this snide about racism or homophobia?
How backward DU is these days. Astounding.
And guess what? I think you've inspired me to write an OP about it since it's so obviously needed.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)is about. So glad you caught it.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)Playing dumb is far less dignified than a septugenarian in a bikini.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I haven't been told to be dignified since Sister Mary Margaret told me to close my legs and pull my skirt down.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)can and may.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Only my third grade teacher was allowed to correct me about that. However, who appointed you the grammar police here?
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)that knowledge in everyday discourse.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)people talk when speaking casually. I also say ain't when it suits me. Your poor daughter.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)I still mourn the loss of shall that has been usurped by will.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)you seriously might be published. But otherwise, nah. It becomes a burden.
Soundman
(297 posts)When they start picking apart your grammar. Btw, I like your style... We need more of it around here.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Which is why I get called 'libertarian poopy face' and other clever names.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)I'm not arguing with you, just raising the point.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)But as a baseline philosophical starting point, I think that one works just fine.
If we don't own our own bodies, liberty is a bad joke, an empty shell, a phantom in a house of fire.
We got, so to speak, nothin'.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)and you can't trample on one without trampling on the other.
Adsos Letter
(19,459 posts)...but you can come help me pull weeds in the yard.
Spring's a'comin'
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Be like Nike and Just Do It.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)It's sad, really.
I hope you have fun in the water tomorrow. It was 39 in MN today and it felt like 60. I would love to go swimming.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I'll think of you while I play in the waves.
I agree that there is some meanness here. But it's not the real DU.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Might satisfy some folks.
I've actually seen these in use, as it were.
http://prelive.goldcoast.com.au/article/2009/09/30/142491_gold-coast-news.html
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I'm sure it's lovely on you, but I'll pass.
MADem
(135,425 posts)That would do the trick.
I fear that wouldn't suit me, though.
Riftaxe
(2,693 posts)Other then assuming you not sexy outside of swimsuit, may i say well done! The day DU looks at white bearded old men with the ginned up lust the gender wars have caused, i am gonna be Flagrant!
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)If it was 75° I would wear a swimsuit to the beach. Hell yeah.
[img][/img] [img][/img]
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Is it made out of straw like your OP?
That would be cute.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)It's our local nude beach. I'll take pictures if you like.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Straw makes good kindling for a nice night time bonfire.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)It will remind me of your brain.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)You post a ridiculous strawman OP. You rant back and forth about misogyny. You claim to have encountered a plethora of it and have been fighting it all your life, but discount any "reality" where others might have encountered it except in some sick world they[i/] live in. You pretend that this is about the dangers of you putting on a bathing suit and becoming a sex object and not about the fight against the misogyny and objectification that is harming females young and old in our society. You literally tell other posters "fuck you" and "shove it where the sun don't shine". Do you really think your behavior here makes you a bad ass? Cuz quite frankly, I think it makes you the exact opposite of a bad ass.
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)madokie
(51,076 posts)and I had my mostly old white ass in shorts and no shirt on while raking the damn sweet gum tree balls into piles in our yard.
the last thing I was feeling was sexy, course I never feel that. Mostly just pissed that I didn't cut these fucking trees down when we first purchased this place 11 years ago and replaced them with any other kind of tree.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)for this OP......again.
Evergreen Emerald
(13,069 posts)We are in more trouble than we realize.
ananda
(28,866 posts)Do any damn thing you well please.
Put sexism on ignore.
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)Create a mocking post on a perfetly legitimate topic and than ask if if we can move on?
liberal N proud
(60,336 posts)Just remember while it is 75 and you dip into the cold water, that there are some of us where it is still just COLD.
Hope you enjoy the warm weather, swimsuit or not!
Rex
(65,616 posts)you might end up looking like this;
Beacool
(30,250 posts)75????? It's not nice to brag how good the weather is where you live.
As for the bathing suit, meh, what's the problem?
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I will gladly trade my day at the beach for rain.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)You guys are going trough a terrible drought and we got more snow and ice that we can handle. Maybe we should trade.
I hope that it starts raining soon in your state.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I mean, not this week, at least.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)[URL=https://imageshack.com/i/nbpointvb2g][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)Good one!
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Nigella wears one!
(Actually they look pretty useful in avoiding skin damage)
Cleita
(75,480 posts)an acceptable item for a swimsuit edition according to a certain element here.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)To keep the peace and all.
By the way, have a good swim! I'm a bit envious as it's currently damp and cold here.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)has said that swimming in a swimsuit makes you a sex object?
When you get into your swimsuit, and a guy stares at you, you might figure something out about the image that the SI issue is promoting that is sexist. never mind, you still won't get it. Just taking another dump in GD. Hope it is worth it for you. Please re-read your op. Read it from your adult intellect side. Then forgive yourself for being so childish.
"Can we stop this nonsense once and for all?"
Clearly you don't have the willpower.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Hekate
(90,714 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,832 posts)That's Just north of Santa Barbara not far from Pismo Beach. I used to live in Santa Barbara for a few years. I loved going to Goleta Beach...
But mostly hung out at Hendry's beach in Santa Barbara.
It was far better than those other tourists spots near downtown Santa Barbara and the Pier. They had a decent little snak place there as well. I miss those Santa Barbara days, I only left because the prices were too high to live there. Lots of Celebrities lived near Santa Barbara..
and they were often visiting the town for events like Fiesta;Old Spanish Days.
idendoit
(505 posts)Fashion faux pas.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)And that's not what any of this is about. You know that. You, and everyone else, is free to select his or her own attire. Wearing a bathing suit does not objectify you in any way. You know that, as well.
Your choice of attire, or anyone's choice of attire has not been the topic of conversation in any of the recent threads. You know that, as well.
The objectification of women has nothing to do with your choice of swimwear on a 75 degree day in California. It never has. The discussion is about something completely different. You know that, too.
I'm afraid this post is an embarrassing one for you. It doesn't say what you think it says about you.
hlthe2b
(102,292 posts)what it says to me about her attitude towards women who have worked so hard to ensure the freedom, rights, and expectations she has today and to the young women fighting to ensure progress continues, is "I got mine. To hell with YOU".
If that is the portrayal she was seeking, I guess she's succeeded rather well.