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sheshe2

(84,171 posts)
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 09:52 PM Feb 2014

Dear White America: Its time to get the message

Last edited Sat Jul 28, 2018, 02:19 AM - Edit history (1)

For decades now, black people have been trying to tell us white folks something. Here's how it looked in the 1960's:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7KL92FCAugE/UwJLTRY2KdI/AAAAAAAAB0Y/nD8M6PZgwU0/s1600/I+am+a+man.jpg


With the advent of social media, the same message was communicated following the acquittal of George Zimmerman for the murder of Trayvon Martin via the hashtag #HeIsNotASuspect.


MsKaiTweets @KaiH23
Follow
@essencemag #HeIsNotASuspect he is a scholar and helper! And Will Not leave this earth before his time purpose
1:49 PM - 20 Jul 2013

Today, we're seeing black people doing their best to communicate the same thing via the hashtag #dangerousblackkids.


View image on Twitter
Val Rice @RiceVal
Follow
#DangerousBlackKids getting ready to steal
12:06 PM - 17 Feb 2014


nealcarter @nealcarter
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The Gaithersburg high chapter of B.R.O.T.H.E.R.S. Inc is dangerous beause they feed the homeless #dangerousblackkids
11:31 AM - 16 Feb 2014


bugsact @bugsact
Follow
My sons looking super scary! One serves his country other serves student athletes w disabilities #dangerousblackkids
11:01 AM - 17 Feb 2014

Hey white folks...its time to wake up and get the f*cking message!!!!!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wOt-ykIWK3k/UwJPBPxXSKI/AAAAAAAAB0k/KerQ9ZXVrN4/s1600/Black+lives+matter.jpg




http://immasmartypants.blogspot.com/2014/02/dear-white-america-its-time-to-get.html

334 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Dear White America: Its time to get the message (Original Post) sheshe2 Feb 2014 OP
Does it matter to you that some of us old white men upaloopa Feb 2014 #1
the message is for the racists JI7 Feb 2014 #2
Looks to me like the message is for "White America". cherokeeprogressive Feb 2014 #20
Then why did my stomach just churn. Maraya1969 Feb 2014 #23
I don't know- I thought it was a smart, sad, thought provoking post showing amazing activism ... bettyellen Feb 2014 #119
The hurtful part was the fact that these black people had and have to do anything to gain Maraya1969 Feb 2014 #121
Tks. For the thoughtful reply. Hate to say it, bettyellen Feb 2014 #122
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2014 #330
I think you're right. marble falls Feb 2014 #261
Then why does it start with AgingAmerican Feb 2014 #47
because it addresses a culture,institution as it is JI7 Feb 2014 #78
No. It is a call out. westerebus Feb 2014 #107
American Culture includes Racism, and yes there are racists on DU and they are not progressives JI7 Feb 2014 #108
Yes it does. westerebus Feb 2014 #111
just because YOU don't see it noiretextatique Feb 2014 #200
True. There are none so blind as those who will not see. IrishAyes Mar 2014 #323
To be honest, there really *isn't* a widespread (actual) racism issue on DU. AverageJoe90 Feb 2014 #208
Many white people here are dismissive of the black community. bettyellen Feb 2014 #124
How do we change that? westerebus Feb 2014 #146
"How do we change that?" is exactly the right question. M0rpheus Feb 2014 #173
if you look at some bizarre reactions here- imagining that this is about ALL white people?!? bettyellen Feb 2014 #176
Yes, and it reminds me of the reaction to the threads about objectifying women and, cui bono Feb 2014 #216
I'm glad you are able to express yourself honestly. westerebus Feb 2014 #269
Post removed Post removed Mar 2014 #331
But the message is to "White America" not White DU. cui bono Feb 2014 #218
It is all about the hokey pokey. westerebus Feb 2014 #280
So well said, Westerbus! Isoldeblue Feb 2014 #256
No, none of that matters. Whites are bad, bad people. Simply because their skin is white. Skip Intro Feb 2014 #3
No one said we are bad people here. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #38
well, there are some white people that should be lectured on racism. kwassa Feb 2014 #46
"Dear White America" doesn't focus on skin color? Skip Intro Feb 2014 #49
no, that is not what I'm saying. "Dear White America" focuses on a culture. kwassa Feb 2014 #57
Sure...an ENTIRE culture, a good portion of which works against racism. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #59
Yes. n/t Skip Intro Feb 2014 #70
Some of it does. Much of it doesn't. kwassa Feb 2014 #72
That doesn't change the fact that police are likely to kill blacks more than whites. cui bono Feb 2014 #104
Perspective indeed, cui bono. sheshe2 Feb 2014 #193
Link to this mystical "good portion" and their "work" please? bettyellen Feb 2014 #120
I shouldn't even get involved, but....you're joking, right? CANDO Feb 2014 #191
yeah- stats that show a "good portion" of white america is doing something now... bettyellen Feb 2014 #192
I'm not offended by the OP. CANDO Feb 2014 #195
people re-post activists' messaging from blogs all the time here and no one takes it personally- bettyellen Feb 2014 #205
Okay, this is the way I perceive it theHandpuppet Feb 2014 #147
Actually,that's an awesome explanation. sufrommich Feb 2014 #149
There's literally nothing you need to add to that. nt M0rpheus Feb 2014 #151
Thanks to both of you theHandpuppet Feb 2014 #154
You are a beautiful Spirit RedRoses323 Feb 2014 #158
It came through loud and clear. M0rpheus Feb 2014 #161
I just don't know where/how folks find the strength to endure it theHandpuppet Feb 2014 #163
We find it because... What other choice is there? M0rpheus Feb 2014 #164
True RedRoses323 Feb 2014 #268
No, you explained yourself perfectly, and make very good points. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #169
Yes, many of us can all draw some parallels in our lives in order to understand theHandpuppet Feb 2014 #171
Eloquently stated. cinnabonbon Feb 2014 #194
I love you. Seriously. Number23 Feb 2014 #249
I don't suppose it could have read "dear white supremicists" hfojvt Feb 2014 #68
+100. n/t Skip Intro Feb 2014 #75
It could have. kwassa Feb 2014 #76
but it DOES apply to me because of the way it was written hfojvt Feb 2014 #85
Yes, you are more important than dead black kids. jeff47 Feb 2014 #94
she may easily have been attacking herself hfojvt Feb 2014 #106
White people who are ashamed that they are white? kwassa Feb 2014 #140
I don't take it as a misinterpretation hfojvt Feb 2014 #211
White America can still be seen as racist kwassa Feb 2014 #222
Late as I am returning to this thread to read all responses, IrishAyes Mar 2014 #324
has always argued and brought heaven05 Feb 2014 #244
Again, the fact that you are upset about it shows the problem. jeff47 Feb 2014 #152
Superb takedown. IrishAyes Feb 2014 #170
you keep alluding to an emotional state and feelings hfojvt Feb 2014 #198
so you are suggesting black deal with those "killed by other black people" before they are allowed bettyellen Feb 2014 #231
Oh my God. You just won this thread. And NO ONE deserves that smack down more than the one Number23 Feb 2014 #250
It says black lives matter, but you read "white people suck"? bettyellen Feb 2014 #126
When a rock is thrown into a pack of wild dogs, the one that yelps is the one that got hit. Ikonoklast Feb 2014 #196
usual suspect heaven05 Feb 2014 #243
How about just "Dear America"? (n/t) WorseBeforeBetter Feb 2014 #77
Do you think only white supremacists are racist? Did supremacists write the SYG law? cui bono Feb 2014 #105
Exactly. White supremacists, a small sliver of the population, are not the problem. Squinch Feb 2014 #136
You know the complaining here is akin to the complaining about "repressing male urges" cui bono Feb 2014 #209
The parallel is striking. nt Democracyinkind Feb 2014 #213
And it's many of the same people too. Squinch Feb 2014 #221
Must it be all about you? Really? Squinch Feb 2014 #63
Voicing an opinion. It's kinda what makes forums work. n/t Skip Intro Feb 2014 #67
An opinion that you are more important than dead black kids. (nt) jeff47 Feb 2014 #93
And over the shark we go. n/t Skip Intro Feb 2014 #95
Hey, it's your opinion. You must be proud of it if you're going to write up a post expressing it. jeff47 Feb 2014 #96
Yikes. n/t Skip Intro Feb 2014 #97
Bingo. Perfection Number23 Feb 2014 #99
I would add to this that this isn't really about Squinch Feb 2014 #134
This. nt sufrommich Feb 2014 #167
Exactly. This is the truth about all social issues. cui bono Feb 2014 #224
Scissor kick RedRoses323 Feb 2014 #162
No, you're stirring the pot. Whole different ballgame. IrishAyes Mar 2014 #325
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2014 #332
(sigh) Don't twist the OP like a pretzel to justify your snark. It's unbecoming, IrishAyes Feb 2014 #168
you lecture us on when you think you see examples of racism against whites CreekDog Feb 2014 #233
If it's not about you, feel free to ignore it. Sheldon Cooper Feb 2014 #5
Yeh know I wish I could JackInGreen Feb 2014 #33
Well, then what are you doing to improve the situation??? nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #112
I don't know why. Sheldon Cooper Feb 2014 #129
I really can't understand why so many people take this personally. smirkymonkey Feb 2014 #299
+1 freshwest Mar 2014 #306
Well, for one I am white too, upaloopa. sheshe2 Feb 2014 #7
If you were aware enough in the 60's to march. M0rpheus Feb 2014 #10
You call white people out then say upaloopa Feb 2014 #12
So was I and that doesn't make you or me Isoldeblue Feb 2014 #19
No I am not upaloopa Feb 2014 #34
+1 Squinch Feb 2014 #74
I *try* to be measured in my responses here on DU in general, M0rpheus Feb 2014 #30
Then quit with the White America shit! upaloopa Feb 2014 #35
Wow... A Tad Sensitive Are We ??? WillyT Feb 2014 #48
First, I'm not the OP, so this is not "shit" *I* started. M0rpheus Feb 2014 #61
Ahem JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #128
Wow. This is an interesting post. gollygee Feb 2014 #123
If you persist in thinking that the life situation of one person is all about YOU, IrishAyes Feb 2014 #172
You always nail it, dear IrishAyes. n/t freshwest Mar 2014 #311
You must admit I've benefited from some great mentoring here. Especially in the BOG, if I IrishAyes Mar 2014 #315
Yes, we probably need to visit there more often! Just haven't been posting many OPs, lately! freshwest Mar 2014 #316
Well there you are~ sheshe2 Mar 2014 #318
Nope, no politics allowed in my fiction. That's because they're fiction, ya know? If I wrote for FNN freshwest Mar 2014 #319
Yes writing for FNN.. sheshe2 Mar 2014 #321
I'm sure you have stories to tell! IrishAyes Mar 2014 #322
white american culture is responsible for american racism. Period heaven05 Feb 2014 #248
This white woman wishes white America would get your message too. Squinch Feb 2014 #58
It's par for the course here on these threads. M0rpheus Feb 2014 #65
I know. And the irony of them insisting on taking a post personally - when Squinch Feb 2014 #71
I really have no patience for the willfully ignorant. M0rpheus Feb 2014 #86
I am so tired Squinch Feb 2014 #137
Mo, you make me so proud. Number23 Feb 2014 #98
Bingo, M0rpheus! Well said. sheshe2 Feb 2014 #103
"Allies shouldn't need us to hold their hands on this. It is not personally about you. " bettyellen Feb 2014 #117
*Googles "big foam hand/finger injuries"* M0rpheus Feb 2014 #150
"Allies shouldn't need us to hold their hands on this." Yes, this. Exactly. RBStevens Feb 2014 #199
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2014 #333
I'm white people, too, and I don't take it personally. kwassa Feb 2014 #42
One Issue With It RobinA Feb 2014 #179
But it didn't say "people" it said "America". Very different. cui bono Feb 2014 #228
Why do you get turned off? kwassa Feb 2014 #276
This message was self-deleted by its author nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #113
You really need perspective. How can you not agree that "white america" is a problem? cui bono Feb 2014 #226
I'm pretty damned white. I don't feel 'called out' by this or anything like it. n/t freshwest Mar 2014 #307
I don't see anything wrong with this and I am white. cui bono Feb 2014 #28
Do you have any notion that sometimes a thing isn't ABOUT you? Scootaloo Feb 2014 #62
Many individuals of privileged class lack the ability to understand that premise. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #64
It's important for white America to recognize white privelege duhneece Feb 2014 #257
Everyone of those is true and should be heard by all. It's no way to live, being treated like that! freshwest Mar 2014 #308
Yes, It matters ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #260
Some of us old white women 840high Feb 2014 #302
"There is not a black America and a white America... Make7 Feb 2014 #4
Ideals are great, aren't they? nt M0rpheus Feb 2014 #11
and if we want to get close to it we can't ignore reality JI7 Feb 2014 #13
Exactly. nt M0rpheus Feb 2014 #15
+100. n/t Skip Intro Feb 2014 #54
Except when it comes to convicting people for murdering black teens who are doing things that teens Squinch Feb 2014 #66
I was merely trying to point out a unifying message... Make7 Feb 2014 #82
That language is the ideal we should aspire to. M0rpheus Feb 2014 #90
Have you seen how inclusive the language is at ColorOfChange.org? Make7 Feb 2014 #267
I've purposely avoided the topic of tone. M0rpheus Feb 2014 #278
some people are more offended by this thread title than the fact zimmerman and dunn JI7 Feb 2014 #92
Seriously. cui bono Feb 2014 #101
Because they're fucking narcissists! Their precious, precious fee-fees are the only thing nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #115
I wish it was surprising. The usernames engaged in it are *especially* not. nt redqueen Feb 2014 #178
They come flooding out like rats in a broken sewer line whenever race threads are posted. Starry Messenger Feb 2014 #225
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2014 #328
Its important to listen to the experience of others etherealtruth Feb 2014 #6
Sometimes I feel as if we're trapped in a time warp theHandpuppet Feb 2014 #8
Recommended! And, please watch out for 4 year old Anala Beevers. NYC_SKP Feb 2014 #9
Thanks Skp! sheshe2 Feb 2014 #14
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2014 #329
Big K&R nt TBF Feb 2014 #16
As an old white guy living in a white area, and knowing that a whole bunch ... Scuba Feb 2014 #17
Hey Scuba! sheshe2 Feb 2014 #27
! BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2014 #51
. Squinch Feb 2014 #79
Bryan Stevenson: We need to talk about an injustice etherealtruth Feb 2014 #18
Here's the video and an explanation how to do it at DU: freshwest Mar 2014 #309
Thank you! etherealtruth Mar 2014 #314
k&r one_voice Feb 2014 #21
I really liked that one in particular. Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #37
I am grateful to those like you, she Isoldeblue Feb 2014 #22
Hey Isoldeblue :) sheshe2 Feb 2014 #24
You heart is full of sunshine and rainbows! That's a good thing! n/t freshwest Mar 2014 #317
Hey sweetie, sheshe2 Mar 2014 #320
Good message OP lib87 Feb 2014 #25
:) Thanks lib87! sheshe2 Feb 2014 #26
Awesome. Thanks for reminding me to go check out #dangerousblackkids. cui bono Feb 2014 #29
Hey, cui bono. sheshe2 Feb 2014 #31
Oh wow! I was thinking of posting an OP on my 10,000th. cui bono Feb 2014 #32
Congrats on 10,000 posts and you can still do an OP. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #36
Thank you. cui bono Feb 2014 #100
I really believe that this is the death rattle of overt racisim in America... Walk away Feb 2014 #39
There certainly has been sheshe2 Feb 2014 #44
Thank you for this thread. Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #40
Thank you Behind the Aegis! sheshe2 Feb 2014 #45
You are quite welcome. Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #73
Again, from the bottom of my heart, thank you. sheshe2 Feb 2014 #87
Not only black but justhanginon Feb 2014 #175
I see our President as a role model for everyone - but POC have a special need to overcome the freshwest Mar 2014 #310
Excellent OP,thanks for sharing it. nt sufrommich Feb 2014 #41
I Understand & Applaud the Intent of Your OP cer7711 Feb 2014 #43
THIS is a FANTASTIC INSPIRATION. Great activism on the part of the groups shown. BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2014 #50
That's why I love ya Blanche! sheshe2 Feb 2014 #56
awwww thanks, she! BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2014 #60
White woman checking in here to say that I take Zero offense at this post. Marie Marie Feb 2014 #52
I know, Marie Marie, those sweet families lost the most valuable sheshe2 Feb 2014 #83
Shout out to the Gaithersburg high chapter of B.R.O.T.H.E.R.S. Inc kwassa Feb 2014 #53
Great post! imthevicar Feb 2014 #55
Sounds like a great site treestar Feb 2014 #69
I get so much pushback on racial issues and I'm white ismnotwasm Feb 2014 #80
I get that, too, and its not a rare occurance cprise Feb 2014 #230
You don't have to be black to be on the Color of Change mailing list eridani Feb 2014 #81
I'm picturing Smartypants as Kim "Do the Right Thing" Basinger... SMC22307 Feb 2014 #84
Why would you add "fucking" if you're just going to censor it? ZombieHorde Feb 2014 #102
It's not my add, it's a direct quote from the OP... SMC22307 Feb 2014 #284
Oh, I see. It's further into the OP. ZombieHorde Feb 2014 #288
Just for the heck of it... SMC22307 Feb 2014 #291
This isn't even remotely close to "white bashing." Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #110
This post needs a *drops mic* M0rpheus Feb 2014 #145
+1000 JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #155
As usual, you've hit the nail on its proverbial head theHandpuppet Feb 2014 #160
So many hateful statements rolled into one post. sheshe2 Feb 2014 #202
And also "hey women folks..." cui bono Feb 2014 #234
I believe the OP is accusatory... SMC22307 Feb 2014 #285
I remember 90% of those disgusting posts, but didn't reply. They are a lost cause! n/t freshwest Mar 2014 #312
"white bashing"??? Did you seriously just write that??? Sheldon Cooper Feb 2014 #130
Yes. SMC22307 Feb 2014 #287
But in a 'post-racial' America, why do whites still identify as white? Methinks those worried about freshwest Mar 2014 #313
Well, I guess this answers the question about whether the post will make you Squinch Feb 2014 #135
Welcome Back! RandiFan1290 Feb 2014 #144
I've been here over a year... SMC22307 Feb 2014 #289
Ah, the tone argument. gollygee Feb 2014 #182
Tone matters. SMC22307 Feb 2014 #293
You and I don't get to choose other people's tone gollygee Feb 2014 #295
Did I say we did? But if the tone isn't palatable to an audience... SMC22307 Feb 2014 #296
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2014 #334
white bashing? sounds like you need a break and a reality check. bettyellen Feb 2014 #188
Not from colorofchange.org or #dangerousblackkids... SMC22307 Feb 2014 #294
Just a FYI, you're doing exactly what you're supposed to do. Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #88
Right? Like- Why isn't there a white history month?!?! Did She She ever think about that? *sarcasm* bettyellen Feb 2014 #118
Yes sheshe2 Feb 2014 #203
much appreciated Quayblue Feb 2014 #89
K&R Sissyk Feb 2014 #91
K&R Solly Mack Feb 2014 #109
I'm not offended gwheezie Feb 2014 #114
for the life of me, I do not get the offense taken here. do black lives not matter? is it hurting bettyellen Feb 2014 #116
Oh come on, bettyellen. Sheldon Cooper Feb 2014 #131
The offense is to the implication that they would think otherwise. WatermelonRat Feb 2014 #239
people post activist stuff here ALL THE TIME that could be- but isn't taken personally.... bettyellen Feb 2014 #240
I don't understand it either. What part of that post is harmful? nt cinnabonbon Feb 2014 #264
We're been screaming this for so long malaise Feb 2014 #125
K&R. nt DLevine Feb 2014 #127
Beautiful. MadrasT Feb 2014 #132
I'm an Angry Old White Male and I APPROVE this message. The Traveler Feb 2014 #133
Throw the mic! JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #138
It's class warfare cprise Feb 2014 #232
Well this thread has been an eye opener. sufrommich Feb 2014 #139
Yes, for me as well. DLevine Feb 2014 #143
Let me tell you a secret. 1awake Feb 2014 #141
so "white america" remains above reproach, because you feel like it. And yes, it is whining. bettyellen Feb 2014 #181
Reproach all you want, I'm just not liking the stereotype. n/t 1awake Feb 2014 #185
white america is not a sterotype- it is a huge segment of our country- and how would anyone address bettyellen Feb 2014 #187
I prefer Italian American. I would prefer wop over being called white. 1awake Feb 2014 #190
You aren't a legal citizen or alien? JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #254
Yes! 1awake Feb 2014 #259
My husband JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #262
"Whiteness" is nothing more than a construct. a Potemkin Village as it were. AverageJoe90 Feb 2014 #212
Great post AverageJoe90 1awake Feb 2014 #217
omg... are you fucking kidding me??? cui bono Feb 2014 #235
What... did they overturn that iffy hockey shot the US made???? n/t 1awake Feb 2014 #238
If you are going to try to educate me on racism... Ticktock Feb 2014 #142
Pointing out to people of 1 skin color that people of another skin color = not-credible? uppityperson Feb 2014 #153
not exactly Ticktock Feb 2014 #156
Except it didn't say "wake up white people" but "Dear White America" uppityperson Feb 2014 #157
Quote from OP Ticktock Feb 2014 #165
Thread title " Dear White America:" uppityperson Feb 2014 #166
Right... Ticktock Feb 2014 #174
what "negative behaviors of a sub section of the black community" are hurting ALL whites? bettyellen Feb 2014 #180
well you're still asleep heaven05 Feb 2014 #270
I am not offended by the thread title Harmony Blue Feb 2014 #148
Bravo RedRoses323 Feb 2014 #159
K&R!!! redqueen Feb 2014 #177
I couldn't agree more. WHEN CRABS ROAR Feb 2014 #183
Great OP as always, sheshe. IrishAyes Feb 2014 #184
Thanks Irish, sheshe2 Feb 2014 #220
Mahalo, she. Cha Feb 2014 #186
Good to see you Cha. sheshe2 Feb 2014 #245
U2 Cha Feb 2014 #279
Whew, what a relief, people here are as clueless about racism as they are about Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #189
As one of the HOF people that make DU suck, Sheldon Cooper Feb 2014 #197
+1,000 wryter2000 Feb 2014 #219
this reminds of the cosby incident noiretextatique Feb 2014 #201
Well stated, and thank you sheshe!!!! Tarheel_Dem Feb 2014 #204
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2014 #206
Before I could respond, it was gone. kwassa Feb 2014 #210
Patience, she'll be back. Rather like that eveready bunny. uppityperson Feb 2014 #277
I like the overall post and stuff. Very good. AverageJoe90 Feb 2014 #207
I don't see why white DUers have to see this as a personal insult wryter2000 Feb 2014 #214
From "black lives matter" to "this OP IS RACIST!!11!!" Democracyinkind Feb 2014 #215
My goodness, there are some sensitive white people on this thread FiveGoodMen Feb 2014 #223
So many of the replies in this thread need this .gif Starry Messenger Feb 2014 #227
oh my gosh, that gif. cinnabonbon Feb 2014 #265
i don't think this guys gets its noiretextatique Feb 2014 #229
I was just at that link. sheshe2 Feb 2014 #236
K&R! hrmjustin Feb 2014 #237
I guess I did justin. sheshe2 Feb 2014 #246
VERY GLAD to see a Hispanic and Asian in with the mix! yuiyoshida Feb 2014 #241
my local high school, too. kwassa Feb 2014 #273
I find that the usual suspects are heaven05 Feb 2014 #242
"the usual suspects" Yep, and there is a reason that they are the "usual suspects" Number23 Feb 2014 #252
I noticed their absense as well but this pot is well stirred without them. nt M0rpheus Feb 2014 #258
Check out this post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014733706 IrishAyes Feb 2014 #247
I am a white Amerciam male, and I just recommended this OP! DontTreadOnMe Feb 2014 #251
Well done, sheshe. Well done Number23 Feb 2014 #253
Thank you Number23. sheshe2 Feb 2014 #283
"Stand Your Ground" affords whites new special rights ... napkinz Feb 2014 #255
The graphics are painfully true, napkinz. sheshe2 Feb 2014 #266
regarding SYG affording whites special rights, another way of saying it ... napkinz Feb 2014 #297
I'm ambivalent about the choice of subject line, but K&R for content. n/t lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #263
Broad brush "messaging" shows incredible ignorance, no matter WestSeattle2 Feb 2014 #271
and what precisely is ignorant? kwassa Feb 2014 #272
That's what schools are for. I suggest you enroll. WestSeattle2 Feb 2014 #274
Oh, please, that is just pathetic. kwassa Feb 2014 #275
OK, kwassa, let's start at the top. Communications - basic communications. When you're crafting WestSeattle2 Feb 2014 #281
I am glad you could arouse yourself enough from your torpor ... kwassa Feb 2014 #282
Well, I'm not offended. Now, back to work. nt Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #286
Thank you for the OP, but I have an off question for you. ZombieHorde Feb 2014 #290
The author is at the link above. I didn't write it. sheshe2 Feb 2014 #298
Shucks! Thanks anway. nt ZombieHorde Feb 2014 #300
I've often thought that America's strength is not in it's diversity.. clarice Feb 2014 #292
Not offended at all AnalystInParadise Feb 2014 #301
I can't for the life of me figure out why some people feel compelled to take offense at this BainsBane Feb 2014 #303
+1000! NOLALady Feb 2014 #304
Sigh~ sheshe2 Feb 2014 #305
I love DU and you, for this. We believe in the right things, always. babylonsister Mar 2014 #326
I re-read this OP tonight, sheshe2 Mar 2014 #327

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
1. Does it matter to you that some of us old white men
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 10:00 PM
Feb 2014

were active in civil rights marches?
It's occured to me that younger people with no first hand knowledge of life in the sixties feel expert enough to call us all out.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
119. I don't know- I thought it was a smart, sad, thought provoking post showing amazing activism ...
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 04:48 AM
Feb 2014

what did you see? what exactly was the hurtful part?

Maraya1969

(22,541 posts)
121. The hurtful part was the fact that these black people had and have to do anything to gain
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 05:24 AM
Feb 2014

respect and equal treatment in this country.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
122. Tks. For the thoughtful reply. Hate to say it,
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 05:48 AM
Feb 2014

But some of the reactions here made me sick to my stomach reading. Wtf is their to be angry at, other than the continuing violence and injustice? I can't imagine making this about me- or only white supremacists? WtFF?

Response to bettyellen (Reply #122)

westerebus

(2,976 posts)
107. No. It is a call out.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 02:28 AM
Feb 2014

There is an American culture.

That culture includes people of all colors.

Progressive people understand that we are in this together, cooperating to build a better world.

Is it that you think white people who here at DU are to stupid to understand that concept?

Or that white people here on DU are unaware that racism exists?

Or that white people on DU do not support the black community?

Or that white people here on DU are just racists in general?

If that's not what you think, then you won't be offended as it's not about you.








JI7

(89,308 posts)
108. American Culture includes Racism, and yes there are racists on DU and they are not progressives
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 02:30 AM
Feb 2014

westerebus

(2,976 posts)
111. Yes it does.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 02:46 AM
Feb 2014

There is plenty of racism in America.

As I look down this OP all I see are People who would condemn racism in any form.

Some of them are white. Some are people of color.

I do not see anyone here on DU promoting racism.





noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
200. just because YOU don't see it
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 03:56 PM
Feb 2014

doesn't mean it does not EXIST. i think that was one of the points of the OP.

IrishAyes

(6,151 posts)
323. True. There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Sun Mar 16, 2014, 11:28 PM
Mar 2014

I've heard the claim that it's easier to convert someone away from overt racism than the self-righteous fool who doesn't see the beam in his own eye.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
208. To be honest, there really *isn't* a widespread (actual) racism issue on DU.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 04:32 PM
Feb 2014

We generally are better informed and more progressive than the average forum.
To be truthful, though, there certainly has been a problem with miscommunication and such on here(including seeing racist/prejudiced/etc. intent or language that isn't actually there) in recent months and we really don't need these problems right now when we could be focusing on this year's elections and beating back the GOP before they have a chance to rebound.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
124. Many white people here are dismissive of the black community.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 05:55 AM
Feb 2014

And much of the country is segregated. Not sure any of us can afford to look through your magic rose color glasses.
The OP was a reminder of some very sad 21st realities, and some wonderful activism. Getting last the issue of how broadly it was addressed- What part of the message itself did you feel so angry and offended by looking at? Was it not the truth?

westerebus

(2,976 posts)
146. How do we change that?
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 10:28 AM
Feb 2014

What in your mind would make white people pay more attention to the issues of the black community. I can't speak for the black community that's not my place.

Neither am I a spokesperson for the white community. I am one person. I'm fortunate to never have lived or worked in a segregated community. But living and working in the community does not mean my experience will be the same as a person of color.

It would be offensive of me to even attempt to tell a black person how they might feel.

The best I can do is say to the message comes off as insinuating white people on DU do not know or care or support those they call friend, family or partner. It is not a message I would use to engage my target audience.

If that audience is the progressive white people that do support the black community, it is just not helpful. The push back helps no one. It divides the community that can and does come together in mutual support.

That doesn't mean we need to agree each step of the way. I don't think that will ever happen. We may fight like brothers and sisters do, there is plenty of that, yet we come to each others side to fight a common foe that threatens each of us and those we care for.

We are not close to ending racism here in America, rose colored glasses aside. There is much work to be done. Bigotry did not end when President Obama was elected. It did come a lot closer to the surface when the Tea Party (aka the Klan) showed up on the doorstep.

I don't see support for them here on DU. I see people calling for progressive candidates to take them on. I see the community on DU demanding a progressive agenda and working in that direction.

I see a demand for justice and equality.

I think that's why you and I are here in the first place.

But, I can not see through your eyes.

Thanks for listening.





M0rpheus

(885 posts)
173. "How do we change that?" is exactly the right question.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 01:21 PM
Feb 2014

One way we change it is by talking.

Understand that by engaging in that conversation there will be things said that you won't like. Those things may FEEL personal and if that's the case, maybe you should examine why that is (is it you? or is it me?).

If your only issue is the tone, maybe it's worth examining why that tone was taken and what the underlying message is.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
176. if you look at some bizarre reactions here- imagining that this is about ALL white people?!?
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 01:44 PM
Feb 2014

And they all suck? What the hell- that's the takeaway here from reading from "Black Lives Matter".

it's pretty hostile and self involved. As if people are pissed they should read it at all- are we wasting your time? It is offensive to tell black people how they feel, but just fine to pick nits on how they communicate and jump in to rewrite the message? Please desist. To derail - and be hostile about it- because the message wasn't honed finely enough not to step on every white toe out there is complete bullshit.

The message will be difficult for many no matter how it is phrased, but to see "pushback" here of all places, where people should be smarter about shit is disappointing. The message was fine as it was, whoever had a problem with it should look within for why it makes them uncomfortable.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
216. Yes, and it reminds me of the reaction to the threads about objectifying women and,
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 04:49 PM
Feb 2014

from what I've heard, against the LGBT community as well (I haven't really seen that but I've read posts regarding it). It seems there is a resistant contingent across issues. It would be interesting to see if there's a crossover in who comprises those.

Hard to believe there's so much work to do within a community that thinks of itself as progressive.

westerebus

(2,976 posts)
269. I'm glad you are able to express yourself honestly.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 09:21 PM
Feb 2014

And I don't think you're directing any of your frustration concerning the responses in the OP at me personally. If you felt that I was being hostile that wasn't my intent.

The Op's content was well done. I did not offer any criticism of the message or of the body of the work. It's a message people need to hear.

I haven't asked for a rewrite. And no, you're not wasting my time either.

I hope I'm not wasting yours.

Black Lives Matter

The editors that decided that that would be the title, thought very carefully on how to reach the most people given a subject which is so emotionally charged. As you say: "the message will be difficult for many no matter how it is parsed".

As many here have pointed out to me that just because I don't see it that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The reference being to racism. I thought I had made that clear in what I posted. I know that racism exists. That was apparently missed by some.

That isn't that important, that my view was glossed over, but how it was so easy to miss what I said not once, but three times.

I think it's a discussion we can have. I'll leave it up to you to decide if you want to.

Please pm me if you wish.

Thanks for your time.

Response to westerebus (Reply #269)

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
218. But the message is to "White America" not White DU.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 04:56 PM
Feb 2014

So why would anyone take away that it's about only DU, or even more surprising, themselves?

Take all of the US, all the teabaggers included, and surely you can see that there's so much hate and racism here. One of two political parties is racist, homophobic and sexist. One of two. Why can't this message be addressed to the whole nation?

For anyone to react to this as if they themselves are under attack speaks to them, not to the message of the OP. I took no offense at all and I'm white.

So how do you change that? Those offended by this should look within themselves and figure out why they are so taken aback by this. They should think about how privileged they are and remember that we are one big community and that here on DU we are supposed to be the ones fighting for equality for all.

westerebus

(2,976 posts)
280. It is all about the hokey pokey.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 10:58 PM
Feb 2014

Cui bono, I'm not under attack.

I don't think you are either.

I do think, as others have said, there might be a more positive means of introduction.

That is not a criticism of the message or the messenger.

Many think the introduction is justified and like you, said so.

It is a disagreement on who in the audience has a difference take on what it means to them.

Separate from this is the message of the Op.

I don't think anyone here condones the murder of innocent persons.

I think we agree on this.

I think everyone here on DU wants an end to the violence.

I think we agree on this too.

How do we change this?

Good question, if I do say so myself.

I don't have that answer.

I can tell you what I do know.

I know my white privilege helped fund the the democratic platform here in Virginia.

That is what my privilege does.

Can you sing: Ding Dong the cooch is gone!

A family member is a very happy camper.

Which makes me just as happy.

On that positive note, I'll say good night.








Skip Intro

(19,768 posts)
3. No, none of that matters. Whites are bad, bad people. Simply because their skin is white.
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 10:04 PM
Feb 2014

Last edited Wed Feb 19, 2014, 11:28 PM - Edit history (1)

So say the hypocrites with their broad-brushes, wanting to lecture everyone on racism.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
46. well, there are some white people that should be lectured on racism.
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 11:39 PM
Feb 2014

Speaking as another white person, I don't see what you are so bent out of shape about it, but I have also noticed similar expressions on this subject from you in the past.

Skin color isn't the problem.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
57. no, that is not what I'm saying. "Dear White America" focuses on a culture.
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 11:54 PM
Feb 2014

The culture of white supremacy, and the devaluation of the lives of young black men.

You are choosing to read it as a skin color. That's on you.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
59. Sure...an ENTIRE culture, a good portion of which works against racism.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:02 AM
Feb 2014

Addressing "White America" in toto as if that portion doesn't exist or is irrelevant is condescending and insulting.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
72. Some of it does. Much of it doesn't.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:19 AM
Feb 2014

What is happening in Florida hearkens back to the classic times which, until recently, no white man could be prosecuted for killing a black man. That is hundreds of years of history.

Such a post isn't condescending or insulting if they are not talking about you. There is no reason for you to take it personally then, is there?

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
104. That doesn't change the fact that police are likely to kill blacks more than whites.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 02:17 AM
Feb 2014

Blacks are more likely to get arrested, convicted. Racism is institutionalized and just because there are whites that also work against racism doesn't mean it still is not very prevalent.

Do whites have to routinely teach their children how to behave around cops so they are less likely to get shot and killed when pulled over for a traffic violation.

Is there an expression of getting pulled over for "driving while white"?

As a country this is a white run and dominated country that oppresses blacks. So I don't see the problem in addressing it to White America. I'm shocked that there is anyone at all complaining about that in this thread when I'm quite sure they know about Zimmerman and Dunn who just killed a couple of innocent black teens for no reason what so ever.

Perspective please.

sheshe2

(84,171 posts)
193. Perspective indeed, cui bono.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 03:26 PM
Feb 2014

So very sad that "The Talk" has to happen at all, to keep the children safe.

One African-American family that we became friends with when our sons were in middle school told us that they didn't let their older son drive until they were comfortable that he knew how to be "properly deferential" if he were pulled over by the police. Until then, it had never occurred to us that we would need to add training in "how to act in the event that you're stopped by the police" to our list of teenage driving skills.
So, we had "The Talk" with both of our sons before they learned to drive. While aching inside, we rattled off the drill: Show your hands, smile, do not appear threatening and never talk back. One of our sons insisted that he would sue any police officer who stopped him without cause, but we were pretty certain that he understood and would follow our instructions. We were all shocked -- especially the boys -- to learn the vital nature of our advice when their DWB came true.

Most whites are unaware of how racism works and how race, ethnicity and culture are linked. One reason for that lack of awareness is what feminist and anti-racist activist Peggy McIntosh calls "white privilege." McIntosh says that whites carry 'an invisible package of unearned assets' that include, for example, turning on the television and seeing members of their race, finding a hairdresser who knows how to cut their hair and having their success or lack of success be attributed to their race. Perhaps the most significant privilege whites have is the ability to know nothing about the experiences and cultures of people who are not like them.

In a society where race is still very much a factor, it's not just white parents of children of color who need to have "The Talk" with their children. We all need to teach our children about the consequences of cultural perceptions of race. In fact, it's time for all of us to have that larger conversation about race with each other.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marlene-g-fine/when-white-parents-have-the-talk-with-black-sons_b_4386310.html

Thanks cui, well said.
 

CANDO

(2,068 posts)
191. I shouldn't even get involved, but....you're joking, right?
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 03:19 PM
Feb 2014

You want a "hyper-link" to convince you that good deeds have ever been done by white people fighting against racism? Wow, that's like ignoring history itself and how does one accomplish that amazing feat of closed mindedness?

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
192. yeah- stats that show a "good portion" of white america is doing something now...
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 03:25 PM
Feb 2014

That was what the post said. I wonder where they got this idea.

Also, I am pretty much rejecting the idea that anyone who is actually "doing something" now would get their feathers ruffled by this OP.

 

CANDO

(2,068 posts)
195. I'm not offended by the OP.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 03:35 PM
Feb 2014

But I do find it sort of out of place in a progressive forum. Falls under preaching to the choir, perhaps. Just my observation. But your post jumped off the screen at me. In a sort of flippant manner, you ignore huge swaths of historical facts that show many millions of white people, famous or otherwise, having fought against racism, slavery, apartheid, etc. And I'm so tired of the snarky gambit of asking for a "link", as though nothing ever existed or can be factual without a www.whatever.link. Now, let me say I'm sorry for jumping you in such a way, but your post sort of jumped the shark a bit and that's what spurred me to respond as I have.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
205. people re-post activists' messaging from blogs all the time here and no one takes it personally-
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 04:16 PM
Feb 2014

-Or thinks it is at all out of place here- unless it's about sexism or racism. But anytime they post PSAs or articles about either of those topics, a too large contingent here says "how dare you broadbrush", I don't like you're tone, you should say "X" instead, because I am taking it personally. Every time. Interesting how people who don;t want to hear it, are also so invested in rewriting the message. They will not only tell other entire groups people what they should feel, but what they should say too. Often without giving it a moments thought, aside from the knee jerk- it offended me a bit.

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
147. Okay, this is the way I perceive it
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 10:56 AM
Feb 2014

Every person in this country is BORN into a white culture. Of course there are millions of folks of all stripes who fight racism but being born black in a white culture is something I could never understand, not really. I fight racism because it is my conscious decision to do so. The fact remains that I'm still stark naked white and that means from the instant I was born there were thousands of significant and some insignificant ways the world was open to me and yet denied to a child guilty of being born black in a white culture.

I wasn't at all offended by the OP. It was open and honest. Racism is such an interwoven part of our national fabric that we can become numb to the totality of it. To me, it is good to be reminded why we fight. Sometimes the message needs to be delivered in a shout, not polite admonitions.

I probably haven't explained myself very well here but that's all I'm worth this morning.

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
154. Thanks to both of you
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 11:47 AM
Feb 2014

I wasn't sure if my post was too clumsy to explain how I feel. But it really hits home for me. I am a gay woman, been with my SO for nearly 25 years. She is Hispanic and of Zapotec origins -- incredibly bright, talented, highly educated (multiple graduate degrees), exceptionally skilled for her high-tech job. One day, a few short years ago, she was sitting in the break room with her co-workers discussing vacation plans when her boss, overhearing the conversation, remarked to her, "So what will you be doing with your vacation? Picking fruit?" My SO related this to me when she got home from work that day. She pretty much shrugged it off but that horribly racist comment, supposedly intended as a "joke", still infuriates and depresses me to this day. I just can't get it out of my mind. In the moment she related just that one incident, I came to truly realize the kind of world she must navigate every day. A world in which she must wear an emotional and psychological suit of armor, a burden of weight I will never bear though I would take it from her shoulders and carry it for my life if I could.

I gotta go now... this is really getting me upset all over again.

M0rpheus

(885 posts)
161. It came through loud and clear.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:27 PM
Feb 2014

And your additional narrative puts a fine point on it.

The truth is, in order for POC to be able to navigate through life here in the US, we have to deal with all that "small" stuff. On any given day it can pop up out of nowhere. We can rage against every time it comes up but, for many (most) that can have real world consequences past making someone mad.

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
163. I just don't know where/how folks find the strength to endure it
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:35 PM
Feb 2014

I'm still sitting here crying over something my SO would probably consider a minor slight that happened years ago, the kind she's probably heard a thousand times before and will again. Yes, it needs to be shouted. Shouted here, there, from the rooftops, everywhere. Louder!

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
169. No, you explained yourself perfectly, and make very good points.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 01:05 PM
Feb 2014

I think I get those points, too: I'm as white as you are...but this is also a male culture, and I'm female. Not precisely the same, but I think there are parallels that provide insight.

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
171. Yes, many of us can all draw some parallels in our lives in order to understand
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 01:16 PM
Feb 2014

Being a woman born into a culture of male privilege.

Being born gay in a thoroughly heterosexual culture.

Whatever we can latch on to in order to gain some insight into how others must navigate through a world divided by gender, class and race, I'm all for it. Thanks much for your reply.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
68. I don't suppose it could have read "dear white supremicists"
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:15 AM
Feb 2014

instead of "dear White America"?

I guess it is my fault for thinking I am a white American.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
85. but it DOES apply to me because of the way it was written
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:43 AM
Feb 2014

You don't get to write "White people suck" and then go "oh, I didn't mean YOU" to the white people who object.

The OP does not get to write "White people need to get this message" and then say "well, when I wrote white people, I didn't really mean white people, just some white people, even though I didn't bother to write the word 'some'".

If you say White America, then you have said White America.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
94. Yes, you are more important than dead black kids.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 01:39 AM
Feb 2014


The OP does not get to write "White people need to get this message" and then say "well, when I wrote white people, I didn't really mean white people, just some white people, even though I didn't bother to write the word 'some'".

Yeah, the white woman who wrote the OP is clearly attacking herself.

Or she could be talking about the privilege many white Americans enjoy. Privilege that lets them rant about just how awful the OP is for not listing white racists by name before talking about what racism is doing in our country.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
106. she may easily have been attacking herself
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 02:28 AM
Feb 2014

there are plenty of white people who seem to be ashamed that they are white.

Now it's only "many" white people with privilege?

And apparently the OP was NOT about what "racism" is doing in our country. It was about what White Americans are doing in our country.

Oh, and speaking of kids, here's a white American who needs to get a message http://www.kansascity.com/2014/02/19/4834066/coach-and-teachers-aide.html

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
140. White people who are ashamed that they are white?
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 09:02 AM
Feb 2014

What does white pride look like to you?

and why are you willfully misinterpreting the OP?

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
211. I don't take it as a misinterpretation
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 04:41 PM
Feb 2014

when what I am doing is taking the word used at its actual meaning.

White America means White America, not "some" of White America.

That's a fairly straightforward interpretation, and NOT a misinterpretation. In the same way, if somebody started talking about "odd numbers" and then later tried to say "well, I only meant prime numbers, not ALL odd numbers." Then I would logically reply, that they should have said prime numbers in the first place and we would not need to have this discussion.

As to what white pride looks like, it would sorta be the absence of "white shame".

Wiki says it is mostly used by white racists. However they quote this "Philosopher David Ingram argues that "affirming 'black pride' is not equivalent to affirming 'white pride,' since the former—unlike the latter—is a defensive strategy aimed at rectifying a negative stereotype"."

But it seems to me that there is a broadly held negative stereotype about white people. One of my distant cousins expressed this in a book I recently read "Inheriting the trade"

"If I were black, I think I'd be angry - not only at what took place over the past few hundred years, but at white people who don't have a clue what's going on today." p 54

This white person thinks black people should be angry at white people, and he quotes a black person going even further.

"'Throughout the world Europeans have sought to dominate, exploit, rape, plunder, and control others.'" African American PhD student at Harvard p 79

This PhD student at one of the most prestigious universities in America has somehow, somewhere "learned" that Europeans are evil.

He quotes another cousin of ours who said this "She [Katrina] says that one legacy of slavery for white people is that we don't notice racial inequality because it's too painful. 'When you do notice, it's so upsetting that all you can do is hate yourself.'" p 124

All you can do is hate yourself.

Well, that's not quite true though. Because you can hate other white people too. You can even hate them because, unlike an enlightened and aware person such as yourself, they do NOT hate themselves.

Yet I note that a Ghanaian is quoted, suggesting that hatred of whites is NOT the right path.

"'Sometimes I think the African Americans who come here leave with hate. That is not helpful. It would be better if people would use their energy to make the world better.'" Abiko Eghagha (Ghanaian?) 121-22

So yes, I do reject the hatred of whites and the self-hatred of whites, even though I have no use for white supremacists.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
222. White America can still be seen as racist
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 05:04 PM
Feb 2014

Using the phrase "White America" without qualifiers. Much of that racism would derive from privileges enjoyed by whites, and various institutionalized forms of racism in this country. White America is here described as an entity, rather than an individual. Overall, most whites are clueless about both privilege and institutionalized racism.

As for myself, I am not seeing white shame or white guilt here, merely the perception of white responsibility for those racist conditions. There is neither shame or self-hatred involved in this concept, so I have no idea where you find it.

I am not certain why you are quoting your cousins, as I have no idea what special expertise they might have in understanding racial matters. What are their qualifications?

Historically, I understand the hatred of whites by blacks, though I've met very few that feel that way. I also don't see self-hatred by whites, anywhere in this thread. Owning responsibility is not self-hatred, it is simply a mature, realistic, and moral response.

IrishAyes

(6,151 posts)
324. Late as I am returning to this thread to read all responses,
Mon Mar 17, 2014, 12:06 AM
Mar 2014

yours might very well be one of the best. Especially that last sentence.

I've long been acutely aware of unjustifiable differences of privilege. For instance, when I lived in L.A., I once went into a precinct office and bawled out the police chief in public. He got mad back at me, of course, and started trying to pee higher on the tree. That made me even madder, and I told him so flat out.

Did I do it because I was super brave or even extra stupid? No, aside from the issue of justice involved at the time, I did it w/o blinking because I damned well knew I could get away with it. I even dared the guy to arrest me. Said my first call would be to (____), who was known to be his mortal enemy just itching to fire his ass. Then I turned on my heel and walked out. Free as a bird. Due to what? Nothing but white privilege, despite the fact that the precinct chief was a pasty ghost compared to me.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
152. Again, the fact that you are upset about it shows the problem.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 11:34 AM
Feb 2014

It shows that you think not hurting your feelings is more important than talking about dead black kids.

So yes, the post is about you. You might not be calling blacks "subhuman mongrels" like overt racists, but the fact that you think the "broad brush" is more important is a problem.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
198. you keep alluding to an emotional state and feelings
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 03:46 PM
Feb 2014

like omigosh, I am because somebody made a stupid sweeping generalization about my race. Or I am

Whereas my emotional state is only

And if you really wanted to talk about "dead black kids" perhaps it would make more sense to address that to "black America" since most of the black kids killed are killed by other black people.

So now you admit the post really IS about me, whereas before I was only the emotional fool making it about me.

Because, yesterday, after all, I spent 2.5 hours at the community center where I have been volunteering for three months, before riding my bicycle home in the rain.

So there I was volunteering to help kids, many of whom just happen to be black, but I, as a white American, had no idea that black lives matter until I read this OP.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
231. so you are suggesting black deal with those "killed by other black people" before they are allowed
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 05:34 PM
Feb 2014

to address racism? WHUT?


Number23

(24,544 posts)
250. Oh my God. You just won this thread. And NO ONE deserves that smack down more than the one
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 06:59 PM
Feb 2014

you just gave it to. Except, maybe about 5-10 others.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
126. It says black lives matter, but you read "white people suck"?
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 06:01 AM
Feb 2014

Is this a zero sum game?
Why would it hurt you to hear black lives matter? Addressed to anyone- why is that a bad message?

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
196. When a rock is thrown into a pack of wild dogs, the one that yelps is the one that got hit.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 03:38 PM
Feb 2014

Lots of yelping in this thread...it must have been a direct hit.



I am White, the OP does not offend me in any way, but then again, I despise racism.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
105. Do you think only white supremacists are racist? Did supremacists write the SYG law?
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 02:22 AM
Feb 2014

That is a small segment of the population that doesn't even begin to address the racial problems in this country. But yes, I suppose it could have read like that to spare the feelings of those who lack perspective regarding the fact that innocent black kids are being murdered for no reason other than they are black and the laws allow for racists to do that.

Seriously, you think that is more important than the racism in this country? Get some perspective.

Squinch

(51,111 posts)
136. Exactly. White supremacists, a small sliver of the population, are not the problem.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 07:52 AM
Feb 2014

The problem lies with the millions who say, "we live in post racial America, and I'm tired of all this reverse discrimination." THAT is the attitude that reflects this country's continued disregard of the experiences of black people.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
209. You know the complaining here is akin to the complaining about "repressing male urges"
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 04:39 PM
Feb 2014

Some people are just so self-absorbed they just don't get that they are the privileged ones and what they are complaining about is so minor, SO minor, it's unbelievable they would say anything at all.

Squinch

(51,111 posts)
63. Must it be all about you? Really?
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:08 AM
Feb 2014


Let's review. The OP pointed out an obvious fact: our country proves over and over again, in small ways and in enormously tragic ways, that we do not, in practice, value the lives and experiences of black people as much as we value the lives and experiences of white people.

Obviously, this post was inspired by the tragic murder of a child for no reason at all.

But here you are, ready to derail that message, a message that was inspired by the tragic murder of a child, because you need to make the post all about you.

Do you see any irony there?

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
96. Hey, it's your opinion. You must be proud of it if you're going to write up a post expressing it.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 01:47 AM
Feb 2014

Yes, it was truly horrific that the OP didn't list all white supremacists by name in her post, so that your fee-fees were not hurt. Clearly, that's way worse than dead black kids.

Alternatively, you could realize that getting upset over this is evidence of the privilege you enjoy due to the color of our skin.

Squinch

(51,111 posts)
134. I would add to this that this isn't really about
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 07:41 AM
Feb 2014

white supremacists. White supremacists will never muster up the cognitive mass to understand.

This is about, among other things, white people who insist that they have no sense of entitlement, but who put their pique at an internet post above a discussion about the murder of a child. Those are the kinds of people who need to wake up.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
224. Exactly. This is the truth about all social issues.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 05:07 PM
Feb 2014

As has been evidenced very recently here on DU.

Response to Squinch (Reply #63)

IrishAyes

(6,151 posts)
168. (sigh) Don't twist the OP like a pretzel to justify your snark. It's unbecoming,
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:57 PM
Feb 2014

and does as much as possible to PROVE THE VERY ISSUE THE OP RAISES!

Or, are you completely UNaware of that????????

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
233. you lecture us on when you think you see examples of racism against whites
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 05:36 PM
Feb 2014

is that the only kind of racism you want us to talk about?

JackInGreen

(2,975 posts)
33. Yeh know I wish I could
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 11:10 PM
Feb 2014

but it's hard to dodge the huge foam hand of shame that keeps getting swung around here, whether or not it's intended for the rest of us.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
112. Well, then what are you doing to improve the situation???
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 03:29 AM
Feb 2014

You can't just sit by and do nothing and claim to be "progressive"!

sheshe2

(84,171 posts)
7. Well, for one I am white too, upaloopa.
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 10:07 PM
Feb 2014

I was 10 in 1962. I still was aware of what was happening. So no this is not a call out. It's about awareness to those that just don't get it.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
12. You call white people out then say
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 10:27 PM
Feb 2014

don't take it personal.
Why don't you adjust your knowledge instead. I was born in 1946.
Your arrogance sucks

Isoldeblue

(1,135 posts)
19. So was I and that doesn't make you or me
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 10:37 PM
Feb 2014

more special. I fought too. But the message hasn't changed and you are the arrogant one for acting like it should be.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
34. No I am not
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 11:23 PM
Feb 2014

I am not describing race in this country.
In the 60's our high school group went from Ohio to Georgia to meet with Black teens.
We marched with them
Today you ignorantly broad brush white people which includes me. You get no respect

M0rpheus

(885 posts)
30. I *try* to be measured in my responses here on DU in general,
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 10:54 PM
Feb 2014

so, I'm going to just suck up the arrogant part and keep it moving, due to you being woefully mistaken about my intent.

When you were born wasn't even a concern. My statement was not about your age, it was about your awareness of the issues in the 60's. I took you at your word that you were there and it's, not a big deal to me one way or the other, as I was not.

The issue during the Civil right's era was a bit more visceral. We were getting killed by white people for nothing more than a look, or a word. We couldn't even share the same space with white people, in general without problem. Today, it's different but the effects are the same. We are still being profiled, beaten, killed and more because we are still considered less than in the eyes of many people that LOOK SIMILAR TO YOU. The real difference between then and now is that it's frowned upon to be openly racist these days, but that doesn't stop it from happening.

Now, I'll say it again with a bit more specificity.
If you were aware enough (i.e. you gave a shit about my rights) in the 60's to march (and potentially risk your life to do so), YOU SHOULD KNOW that this is not about you (that is, if you still care about my rights). It wasn't about you in the 60's and it's not about you now.

Allies shouldn't need us to hold their hands on this. It is not personally about you.

 

WillyT

(72,631 posts)
48. Wow... A Tad Sensitive Are We ???
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 11:42 PM
Feb 2014

I'm white, and that did not bother me one bit.

Why the anger???


M0rpheus

(885 posts)
61. First, I'm not the OP, so this is not "shit" *I* started.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:06 AM
Feb 2014

Last edited Thu Feb 20, 2014, 01:13 AM - Edit history (2)

Whether or not, "White people" includes you in this case, the worst you're going to suffer is hurt feelings. It's regrettable but fairly benign.

Now, on the other hand, the reverse is often expensive, painful, depressing and, deadly.

I'm not acting like only *I* have rights and understanding, I'm noting the disparity between what hurts your feelings and what can get us killed. You have to admit (well... no you don't), that the difference is pretty stark, there.

You're the one that was marching in the 60's. Were your feelings hurt then when those people you were marching for, were mad at "White people"?
If the answer to that is "no", why not?
Could it have been that you empathized with them and understood their anger?
Now, if you were able to empathize and understand then, why are you not able to now?
What changed?
Was it you or, did you fall for that post-racial America stuff?

*awaiting your measured and, well thought out yet, passionate argument in response. Or.... you can just continue to sputter impotently. Whichever you prefer.

Sincerely,

M0






gollygee

(22,336 posts)
123. Wow. This is an interesting post.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 05:50 AM
Feb 2014

Are you really that bothered by this? You think that you no longer have rights and understanding due to the lack of the word "some" or another qualifier in the post.

I think "dear white America" was just what needed to be said because it's the entire system, or culture, that's the problem, not just a handful of white Americans.

IrishAyes

(6,151 posts)
172. If you persist in thinking that the life situation of one person is all about YOU,
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 01:21 PM
Feb 2014

that is navel-gazing hubris on the hoof. There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

You're just stirring the pot. I wouldn't bet on your feelings really being hurt, not that you should be mollycoddled anyway. Are you having fun yet, insulting others and openly declaring their motives and observations so far beneath your own? It shows, pal... it shows.

IrishAyes

(6,151 posts)
315. You must admit I've benefited from some great mentoring here. Especially in the BOG, if I
Sun Mar 16, 2014, 03:54 PM
Mar 2014

may be forgiven a plug for my favorite.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
316. Yes, we probably need to visit there more often! Just haven't been posting many OPs, lately!
Sun Mar 16, 2014, 05:55 PM
Mar 2014

I'm spending more time writing my fictions. I do love words...



freshwest

(53,661 posts)
319. Nope, no politics allowed in my fiction. That's because they're fiction, ya know? If I wrote for FNN
Sun Mar 16, 2014, 09:17 PM
Mar 2014
or some GOP scumbag, I guess I could do their fictions, but I'd go blind first. Some things just will not be allowed to pass...

sheshe2

(84,171 posts)
321. Yes writing for FNN..
Sun Mar 16, 2014, 09:32 PM
Mar 2014

Would surely make you deaf, dumb and blind. It sure works on their viewers!

IrishAyes

(6,151 posts)
322. I'm sure you have stories to tell!
Sun Mar 16, 2014, 11:00 PM
Mar 2014

Last edited Mon Mar 17, 2014, 01:15 AM - Edit history (1)

I try to drop in at the BOG at least daily, but I've been a little swamped lately with other things. The guy that did the lattice on my front porch surround did it the way he wanted, not how I made very clear was necessary, and then he disappeared. Maybe the Obama sign in the front yard spooked him? Regardless, we get 85-mph straight line winds here, and a year later, sure enough half of it came apart this past week. I was sick and furious. But luckily my blessed new handyman came over and worked on it for me. Later he'll return and do even more. But it should hold for quite awhile now.

One thing that's had me hopping is the charity newsletter and the stupid smartphone I had to learn to use to call interviewees. How I hated that phone at first! Getting better with the bare essentials now, though, so I've stopped cussing at it. It was fun doing the first interview. I get to do all the fun (to me) stuff and none of the hard stuff apart from learning new technology. Once I get past that barrier, it's all gravy. I don't want to be an employee even though they offered to hire me. Let what my salary would've been - small enough at part time - go to the organization's expenses and recipients. Plus they might also suspect I prefer keeping my independence. They'll send me any equipment I need to do the job (besides meeting expenses), and although I insist it remain in their name, I seriously doubt they'll ever demand that I ship something back. So no telling what kind of job-required goodies might find their way to me. Things I could never afford, like smartphones. Oh, btw, while it's strictly cosmetic ego feed, I've been made an administrator. No duties or power, but a great title! I spend a certain amount of free time on the 2 related websites and sort of explain things nicely to newbies. Like a hostess free to come and go at will.

later: sorry about ramblin' on, quite possibly in the worst place imaginable. Don't know if the non-profit and the lateness of the hour are any excuse, but I'll grasp at the first straw available.


 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
248. white american culture is responsible for american racism. Period
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 06:23 PM
Feb 2014

Last edited Thu Feb 20, 2014, 07:22 PM - Edit history (1)

so quit with your shit!!!! You've always had rights and privilege that black people, with help from SOME good white allies, had to fight for. You never had to fight for any rights to vote or be recognized as more than 2/3 human. So quit your shit!!!!

Squinch

(51,111 posts)
58. This white woman wishes white America would get your message too.
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 11:59 PM
Feb 2014

But I can also see, from a disturbing large number of replies in this very thread, that it is going to take a while yet.

M0rpheus

(885 posts)
65. It's par for the course here on these threads.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:11 AM
Feb 2014

There's a core of people here who absolutely refuse to see the bigger point. It's always personal for them. I'm expecting a few more to show up before the party is over.

Squinch

(51,111 posts)
71. I know. And the irony of them insisting on taking a post personally - when
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:17 AM
Feb 2014

the subject of the post is, really, life and death - and at the same time insisting there is no disregard of issues that concern black people, is not lost on most of us either.

M0rpheus

(885 posts)
86. I really have no patience for the willfully ignorant.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:45 AM
Feb 2014

Last edited Thu Feb 20, 2014, 11:07 PM - Edit history (1)

However, I refuse to let it go unchallenged these days. I've been on the sidelines too long.

Squinch

(51,111 posts)
137. I am so tired
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 07:59 AM
Feb 2014

of the nonsense that is being posted here, the way the validity of people's experiences is denied. I'm with you on this.

sheshe2

(84,171 posts)
103. Bingo, M0rpheus! Well said.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 02:17 AM
Feb 2014
If you were aware enough (i.e. you gave a shit about my rights) in the 60's to march (and potentially risk your life to do so), YOU SHOULD KNOW that this is not about you (that is, if you still care about my rights). It wasn't about you in the 60's and it's not about you now.

Thank you.
 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
117. "Allies shouldn't need us to hold their hands on this. It is not personally about you. "
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 04:12 AM
Feb 2014

It's pretty easy to understand. The "big foam hand of shame", not so much.

M0rpheus

(885 posts)
150. *Googles "big foam hand/finger injuries"*
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 11:17 AM
Feb 2014

Nope... I got nothing.

Looks like that thing really only injures their feelings... OBVIOUSLY more important than the actual message.

I guess the next post should start "Dear melanin challenged people who-harbor-bigoted/racist-ideas-whether-conscious-or-unconscious-but-not-you-guys-over-there-we-don't-want-to-hurt-your-precious-feelings", to spare any misunderstandings.

It's a bit long, but we could make it work, I think!





Response to M0rpheus (Reply #30)

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
42. I'm white people, too, and I don't take it personally.
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 11:33 PM
Feb 2014

Because I know this critique isn't aimed at me.

Why do you have such an issue with it?

If the shoe doesn't fit, don't worry about it.

I was happy to see the local Gaithersburg high school group in those tweets. I had no idea they were feeding homeless people.

RobinA

(9,930 posts)
179. One Issue With It
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 02:04 PM
Feb 2014

is that it's self-defeating. Whenever someone starts with the "Hey White People" gambit a whole sh*t ton of people get turned right off. You don't capture (or keep) hearts and minds by a condescending broad brush approach like that. When I hear "Hey White People," I don't take it personally, I figure that anybody who can't come up with a better presentation than that probably doesn't have much interesting to say anyway. Hey, I sat through "Diversity" class listening to how white people suck for one entire graduate semester. I'm tuned out at this point. I wasn't when I started the class.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
228. But it didn't say "people" it said "America". Very different.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 05:22 PM
Feb 2014

White America is about the whole nation. It even encompasses people of color. It's about the culture, the system, which is white dominated.

I didn't take it as a call out to white people at all, I most certainly didn't take it personally. I took it as a call to our entire nation to look at what the fuck is going on racially here.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
276. Why do you get turned off?
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 10:21 PM
Feb 2014

I also sat through a diversity class for one entire graduate semester. However, I also was able to ask questions of the teacher and everyone else in the class. That is the point of education, the willingness to look at and discuss different ideas. It isn't a one way street.

Response to upaloopa (Reply #12)

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
226. You really need perspective. How can you not agree that "white america" is a problem?
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 05:15 PM
Feb 2014

It so completely is. We are a racist nation. To complain about the OP is so incredibly petty it's unfuckingbelievable there is even one person on here whining about it. And yes, it is whining.

To worry about your own personal feelings about this imaginary call out is to show that you have no perspective on the real problem and cause of it. The real problem is that black kids are getting murdered legally. Whites are the ones in power, the privileged ones, that is what makes this "White America". It's not about individual people, it's not about actual people at all, it's about the country as a whole, the culture of the US. And this culture is still very racist. It's institutionalized. Hell, half the country votes for a racist, homophobic and sexist party that enacts laws to perpetuate all of these.

So if you are bothered by this it's time for a little introspection. Your reaction is not about the OP, it's about you.



cui bono

(19,926 posts)
28. I don't see anything wrong with this and I am white.
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 10:50 PM
Feb 2014

I think you need to just not take it as a direct message to you as an individual.

As you know, in the big picture whites oppress blacks. Even in today's society there is too much racism. It's institutionalized. I can't imagine what it must be like to live as a black person in this country. It was bad enough before SYG gave racists open season to kill blacks with no reason other than they felt like and thought they had a right to so they'll get away with it.

The backlash against having a black president coupled with media that gives the racist teabagger asshats a voice has made things even more dangerous today it seems.

So when you compare what a black person has to live with and how you might feel when you take this personally, it seems pretty petty to me for you to complain. Just look at the big picture. It's not about you.

duhneece

(4,134 posts)
257. It's important for white America to recognize white privelege
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 07:28 PM
Feb 2014

We civil rights supporter and we liberals didn't want white privilege, surely didn't fight for it, but we need raise our awareness of white privilege.
I didn't have to worry about teaching my son about keeping his hands on the steering wheel when pulled over.
Here's a link of a list:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/michaelblackmon/17-harrowing-examples-of-white-privilege-9hu9

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
308. Everyone of those is true and should be heard by all. It's no way to live, being treated like that!
Sun Mar 16, 2014, 02:27 AM
Mar 2014
Thanks for posting. I'll share it in other places to make people aware of what hell has been created they were granted that they never went through.


 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
260. Yes, It matters ...
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 07:49 PM
Feb 2014

and White America ... all of it ... those that didn't march, support, or believe, need to be reminded or told ... And those that did march, support, or believe, need to be reminded that the fight hasn't stopped, even if the marches have.

Make7

(8,543 posts)
4. "There is not a black America and a white America...
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 10:05 PM
Feb 2014

... and Latino America and Asian America; there's the United States of America."

Squinch

(51,111 posts)
66. Except when it comes to convicting people for murdering black teens who are doing things that teens
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:12 AM
Feb 2014

do.

Among other things.

Make7

(8,543 posts)
82. I was merely trying to point out a unifying message...
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:27 AM
Feb 2014

... might be better accomplished with more unifying language.

I don't disagree with the point being made, I just don't entirely agree with the way it is being broadcast.

M0rpheus

(885 posts)
90. That language is the ideal we should aspire to.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:59 AM
Feb 2014

Whether it's a unifying message or not depends on which end of the power spectrum you're on.
It sounds great if you're already up there, but from the low end, it comes off quite differently.

Make7

(8,543 posts)
267. Have you seen how inclusive the language is at ColorOfChange.org?
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 09:13 PM
Feb 2014

I think it is quite a contrast to how the blogger quoted/linked to in the opening post chose to express herself - especially since she used a campaign logo from ColorOfChange.org in her blog entry.

I am not saying the words she used were offensive or somehow wrong - just that more inclusive language might be more effective.

Perhaps I have no idea what I'm talking about, or maybe I am simply asking for a little too much from someone at immasmartypants.blogspot.com. And perhaps quoting then State Senator Barack Obama was not the best way to express myself - that's just what immediately came to mind when reading the thread/blog entry title. People can choose to impart whatever meaning to those words they wish.


[div class="excerpt" style="margin-left:1em; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-radius:0.4615em; box-shadow:-1px -1px 3px #999999 inset;"][font style="font-size:1.23em;"]What Is ColorOfChange.org?[/font]

[div class="excerpt" style="color:#cccccc; background-color:#707070; font-size:1.23em; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif;"]ColorOfChange.org exists to strengthen Black America's political voice. Our goal is to empower our members - Black Americans and our allies - to make government more responsive to the concerns of Black Americans and to bring about positive political and social change for everyone.
We were heart-broken and outraged by the catastrophe that followed Hurricane Katrina. And we were devastated to realize that no African-American organization or coalition had the capacity to respond on the necessary scale.

Hurricane Katrina made it clear that our lack of a political voice has life-and-death consequences. With no one to speak for them, hundreds of thousands of people - largely Black, poor, and elderly - were left behind to die. But it wasn't just Black folks. Poor, sick, and elderly people of every color were abandoned too. We are not alone, and when we work to protect Black lives and interests, we do the same for all who have been left behind in political silence.

ColorOfChange.org is comprised of Black folks from every economic class, as well as those of every color who seek to help our voices be heard. Our members are united behind a simple, powerful pledge: we will do all we can to make sure all Americans are represented, served, and protected - regardless of race or class.[font style="font-size:0.769em;"]


http://colorofchange.org/about/[/font]
 

M0rpheus

(885 posts)
278. I've purposely avoided the topic of tone.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 10:32 PM
Feb 2014

Mostly because it's unimportant and, tone policing is usually employed to derail an argument.

If I were to literally drop permutations of the word "fuck" in the appropriate places in my statements, would that make them less valid? Taking offense at the "fucks" I've given you, allows you to completely ignore the rest of the statement and turn the argument around to how you want me to act in order for you to possibly acknowledge the original argument. Either you accept the premise of the argument and discuss it, or you don't. How I said it, shouldn't matter.

Now, Color of Change is an organization. It's to their benefit as an organization to moderate their tone, particularly in their mission statement (which is what you posted). I can assure you that the words expressed in the OP are not unknown there, however.

Perhaps I have no idea what I'm talking about, or maybe I am simply asking for a little too much from someone at immasmartypants.blogspot.com.

I think you're asking a lot of people who have legitimate issues to express themselves in a manner that suits you. That's just the way I see it.

And perhaps quoting then State Senator Barack Obama was not the best way to express myself - that's just what immediately came to mind when reading the thread/blog entry title.

Your original comment came off as tone deaf when added to a conversation that was basically saying "Black lives matter". I responded to it as it was given rather than talk about the tone I got from it, as I thought it was worth giving you my opinion rather than telling you how you could get me to listen.

JI7

(89,308 posts)
92. some people are more offended by this thread title than the fact zimmerman and dunn
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 01:10 AM
Feb 2014

were not convicted for murdering unarmed teens.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
115. Because they're fucking narcissists! Their precious, precious fee-fees are the only thing
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 03:50 AM
Feb 2014

that matters in the whole goddamn world! Why, Zimmy the Obese Sociopath getting away with murder is nothing by comparison!

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
225. They come flooding out like rats in a broken sewer line whenever race threads are posted.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 05:10 PM
Feb 2014

Then they accuse the rest of us of swarming *them*. Richly ironic.

Response to JI7 (Reply #92)

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
8. Sometimes I feel as if we're trapped in a time warp
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 10:07 PM
Feb 2014

Let's hope we can all come through this together and the stronger for it.

Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #9)

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
17. As an old white guy living in a white area, and knowing that a whole bunch ...
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 10:34 PM
Feb 2014

... of my fellow citizens are nasty, fucking, racist pricks, I don't think any "broad brush" apologies are necessary.

But that's just me.

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
18. Bryan Stevenson: We need to talk about an injustice
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 10:35 PM
Feb 2014
http://www.ted.com/talks/bryan_stevenson_we_need_to_talk_about_an_injustice.html



(I know there is a way to post this so that the video is actually in the post ... but, as it turns out, I am a computer moron)

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
309. Here's the video and an explanation how to do it at DU:
Sun Mar 16, 2014, 02:59 AM
Mar 2014


Bryan Stevenson: We need to talk about an injustice

Published on Mar 5, 2012

In an engaging and personal talk - with cameo appearances from his grandmother and Rosa Parks - human rights lawyer Bryan Stevenson shares some hard truths about America's justice system, starting with a massive imbalance along racial lines: a third of the country's black male population has been incarcerated at some point in their lives. These issues, which are wrapped up in America's unexamined history, are rarely talked about with this level of candor, insight and persuasiveness.

This is how you do this at DU:

Go to youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/

At the top of the page should be an address bar. Type in or paste the video title. I often do this because many videos linked here at DU don't come through to my computer. Then post the video on threads as a courtesy to those experiencing the same problem.

In this instance I got the TED talk by putting in your title:

Bryan Stevenson: We need to talk about an injustice

Just enter the title into the search function, and a list of the closest video titles will appear. Select the one closest to what you want to show.

Tx4Obama showed me the best way to post videos here at DU was by using the 'Share' 'button' below the video. A window will appear below with the URL designed to post without any extra letters or numbers above, to the left or right or below the video, for a clean look.

In order to obtain the video description, which will include the date uploaded, listed as 'Published' as you see in my example above, you may have to refresh the page to get the 'Share' URL out of the way.

Then click the 'Show more' button and copy and paste that information to provide DUers with a reason to take the time to view your video. Some videos don't get responses if this courtesy is not shown or the poster doesn't describe the video. I skip those myself.

Or if you choose to do it another way, post the video description and then go above it to get the URL and post it above your video in your DU message box. If I am making an OP, I usually put the title in the title of my post which emboldens the font and lets others see what the subject matter is. If I am posting the video in the text or message box, I embolden it there, and italicize the description to not confuse the reader with my own thoughts which I generally put in regular font.

Note, that the date 'Published' may not be the same day the event was video or the event occured. I've seen people who didn't pay attention to the date and posted video to bolster an argument, that was several years old or was debunked and not relevant to the current situation. It didn't help their case.

I've also seen one famous video uploaded by the Onion, obvious by the small icon in the lower right corner of the video. It was touted as proof the Congress had passed some outrageous bill and 'we're all gonna die.'

It was all fake, but many CT sites didn't catch and posted it as 'PROOF!!!11!!' as well as some GOP officials who posted it on their district web pages. It was a satire, and I've even seen it posted here where some were fooled and thought it was true. *rolls eyes*

So you are not a 'computer moron.' And you made a very valuable add to this thread. Good luck posting videos.

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
314. Thank you!
Sun Mar 16, 2014, 09:25 AM
Mar 2014

I have been here for 9 years and have never quite figured this out. I have saved your instructions to my desk top; when the opportunity presents itself I will now have the tools to do it. Again, I greatly appreciate you taking the time to write out the steps I need to take.

one_voice

(20,043 posts)
21. k&r
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 10:40 PM
Feb 2014

I love all the pictures, but I have to say the smile on the little one's face holding his reading achievement award....gush!! Million dollar smile.

Behind the Aegis

(54,087 posts)
37. I really liked that one in particular.
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 11:28 PM
Feb 2014

I have a similar picture of my two youngest brothers. Maybe he will be come a doctor or a nuclear scientist like my brothers did. I hope he is able to do so!

sheshe2

(84,171 posts)
320. Hey sweetie,
Sun Mar 16, 2014, 09:29 PM
Mar 2014

so you are the one that kicked my OP back up. I saw the response and started to reread the whole thread until I got here~

Thanks freshwest. There are so many great posts here, and then again a lot of truth is laid naked. It is about the children, the black children that have died so needlessly. Sad that some wanted to make this about themselves.

Walk away

(9,494 posts)
39. I really believe that this is the death rattle of overt racisim in America...
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 11:29 PM
Feb 2014

The day that president Obama was elected the hidden hatred came welling up to the surface. But it was not acceptable to most Whites. Bigots are taking their last horrible stand before they all but disappear and their power is spent.
We all have to be strong and and support our friends and neighbors and vote these terrible laws out of existence.

sheshe2

(84,171 posts)
44. There certainly has been
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 11:37 PM
Feb 2014

an escalation of hatred spewed since he too office. He and his family alike have weathered it with both dignity and grace.

You know, I believe that you are right, Walk away. There last stand.

Behind the Aegis

(54,087 posts)
73. You are quite welcome.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:19 AM
Feb 2014

I do understand why some are upset, but I also realize that why this message is generally thought to be mainly for "racists," it sadly, is needed for those who aren't really racists. Many white people don't realize that being black in America is still not a walk in the park. The reality is racism is still alive and well, though much of it may to seem to have gone underground, it really hasn't except for the most "in your face" type.

**For those unfamiliar with sheshe2, her OP comes from a place of love, respect, and hope, and not one of shame, scorn, nor blame.

sheshe2

(84,171 posts)
87. Again, from the bottom of my heart, thank you.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:47 AM
Feb 2014

I believe that there has been an escalation since Obama became President. Some just can't get over a black man in the WH. It's not just that he is a Democrat, he's black.

Thank you for having my back, Behind the Aegis.

justhanginon

(3,292 posts)
175. Not only black but
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 01:35 PM
Feb 2014

a really class act by anyone's standard, something we haven't seen in a while, a damn smart man, beautiful wife who is really loved by most Americans, two lovely well behaved children and elected to two terms. My God! All the stereotypes trashed in one fell swoop. And then we read about these black children doing so well and the little girl with the huge IQ She may well grow up and discover the cure for cancer. My God will the stereotype bashing ever stop! Have some pity.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
310. I see our President as a role model for everyone - but POC have a special need to overcome the
Sun Mar 16, 2014, 03:29 AM
Mar 2014
generations of dishonest, hateful stereotypes thrust upon them, stifling their creative power. The world needs their freedom as much as they do, to teach everyone.


cer7711

(502 posts)
43. I Understand & Applaud the Intent of Your OP
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 11:33 PM
Feb 2014

The problem is, the overt "h8ers-gonna-h8" racists won't read it. So who are you talking to?

Yep, us liberal/progressive whites.

A simple tweak to your OP's headline might help: Dear Racist White AmeriKKKa: Time to Get the Message.

PS. As a progressive white man, I can't tell you the times my stomach has dropped when some other Caucasian--mistaking me for one of his racist own--goes off on a rant about "those people". It's always very, very ugly. And wedded to homophobia, misogyny, rigid thinking, religious and cultural bigotry, approval of the physical abuse of children as "discipline"--the whole damn bag of Neanderthalic attitudes.

Which is not meant as a dig at Neanderthals, by the way. One of the reasons Neanderthals may have died out is because they were kinder, gentler, less devious and savage than mass-murdering Cro-Magnon man--us. Now that's a thought, isn't it? The genocidal, merciless branch of the human species won the fight for survival. Explains much, methinks . . .

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
50. THIS is a FANTASTIC INSPIRATION. Great activism on the part of the groups shown.
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 11:47 PM
Feb 2014

I feel thrilled to see these great initiatives! I wouldn't have known about them without this thread.


yet, White people here are taking it personally? That's crazy. And SELF-ABSORBED! It's not about YOU, White people here who think they're being slammed.

Think about what other people go through, for a change!

To Black people who live with life threatening discrimination, "White America" is a real entity. Everyone, Black and White alike, knows that doesn't include ALL White people. Black people know that there are also many White allies. White allies know who they are, and know they're not being talked down to here.

It's one's own behavior that puts you in one or the other category. You should know clearly where you fit.


goddamn, the IQ around here is going down lately.















sheshe2

(84,171 posts)
56. That's why I love ya Blanche!
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 11:52 PM
Feb 2014

Damn well said!

Thanks for getting it, not that I believed for a second that you would not!

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
60. awwww thanks, she!
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:04 AM
Feb 2014

Back atcha. you consistently do excellent posts.

Thank you for being one of the ones making this place better.


Marie Marie

(9,999 posts)
52. White woman checking in here to say that I take Zero offense at this post.
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 11:49 PM
Feb 2014

Given some of the news lately, there are some who definitely need to get this message. If you already do get it, then be proud of your humanity and a take a moment to think about the families of the victims of the likes of Zimmerman and Dunn - you know, the ones who don't get it! Thanks for posting this sheshe.

sheshe2

(84,171 posts)
83. I know, Marie Marie, those sweet families lost the most valuable
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:33 AM
Feb 2014

part of their lives, a child. Why? Hate, ignorance and intolerance.

Thank you for your post, so very appreciated.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
53. Shout out to the Gaithersburg high chapter of B.R.O.T.H.E.R.S. Inc
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 11:50 PM
Feb 2014

I had no idea, and they are only a few miles from here.

 

imthevicar

(811 posts)
55. Great post!
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 11:51 PM
Feb 2014

It gets a clear message across, To those of us who understand where you are coming from, you ask us to, Please explain why to our friends and family. to those who don't, You make a stand and say to them that, You will not be second class any more. BTW you never were in my book!

treestar

(82,383 posts)
69. Sounds like a great site
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:16 AM
Feb 2014

I know of a few white people who really could use some perspective, as that looks like it gives.

ismnotwasm

(42,039 posts)
80. I get so much pushback on racial issues and I'm white
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:25 AM
Feb 2014

Last edited Thu Feb 20, 2014, 10:43 PM - Edit history (1)

It's like an instant defensiveness, a total lack of historical knowledge other than "slave" days. No understanding of racist home lending laws, contributing to the lack the lack of inheritable wealth and generational poverty, AFTER the civil rights laws were passed for instance. Job discrimination, housing discrimination school discrimination. Damn right we need to wake up.

Young black men and women get shot for being black we have fucking DEBATES about it.

cprise

(8,445 posts)
230. I get that, too, and its not a rare occurance
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 05:28 PM
Feb 2014

Some white people will become instantly irritated.... in fact, all it takes is for a strong black man to appear on their TV screen. Suddenly they are flipping the channels looking for their white guy secret-agent/superhero fix.

Every. Time.

It's downright Pavlovian. But instead of bells and food it centers around who people identify with, and what it means to be 'tolerant' (I don't think having allergic reactions to non-white people is in any sense 'tolerant').

eridani

(51,907 posts)
81. You don't have to be black to be on the Color of Change mailing list
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:25 AM
Feb 2014

They always have useful action items.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
84. I'm picturing Smartypants as Kim "Do the Right Thing" Basinger...
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:43 AM
Feb 2014

Last edited Fri Feb 21, 2014, 10:59 AM - Edit history (1)

pumping her fist at the Oscars. Truth!

Will this really convince anyone ... cause them to reflect on their actions, their belief system?

"Hey white folks...its time to wake up and get the f*cking message!!!!!"


Doubtful.

Just like this probably wouldn't go over too well:

"Hey black folks...its time to wake up and get the f*cking message!!!!!"

"Hey Asian folks...its time to wake up and get the f*cking message!!!!!"

"Hey Jewish folks...its time to wake up and get the f*cking message!!!!!"

"Hey gay folks...its time to wake up and get the f*cking message!!!!!"

The white bashing on this site is getting tedious.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
102. Why would you add "fucking" if you're just going to censor it?
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 02:16 AM
Feb 2014

You want people to say "fucking" in their minds when they read it, but you don't want them to see the "u." I must be missing something.

I know I am not addressing the content of your post, and that can be annoying, but I see this fairly often and I am honestly curious about it.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
284. It's not my add, it's a direct quote from the OP...
Fri Feb 21, 2014, 10:11 AM
Feb 2014
Hey white folks...its time to wake up and get the f*cking message!!!!!


I just followed the same format.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
288. Oh, I see. It's further into the OP.
Fri Feb 21, 2014, 10:56 AM
Feb 2014

I didn't notice it. I thought you added it to the beginning line. I will copy/paste my question to the OP.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
291. Just for the heck of it...
Fri Feb 21, 2014, 11:01 AM
Feb 2014

I edited my post to add the "excerpt" formatting. Wasn't sure if there's a time limit on edits, but I guess not.

Behind the Aegis

(54,087 posts)
110. This isn't even remotely close to "white bashing."
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 02:46 AM
Feb 2014

I am both gay and Jewish, and I can tell you, honestly, your examples have been said here, though not using that particular verbiage.

To Gay DU'ers:
"Why are you trashing Russia? Gay rights are worse in this country! You are a Russiophobe!"
&quot in a thread about Russia's homophobic laws) When will you speak out on (X) country?"
"I am all for equal rights, but I don't need the gay agenda shoved down my throat."
"Wow! Some gays here a really thin-skinned if the phrase "gay agenda" sets them off."
"Look at all the gay bullies who jump all over someone for having a different view."
"You are racists for speaking out against the President/FLOTUS!"
"I don't care what you do in bed or your sexual preferences, but we have an election to win!"

So yes, we have seen ""Hey gay folks...its time to wake up and get the f*cking message!!!!!" " and we get the "message" loud and clear.

To Jewish DU'ers:
"You don't own the Holocaust. Stop using it as an excuse."
"He said Jews have all the money and influence, is that not true?"
"Are you Mossad?"
"Did I lie? Who actually runs this country?"
"That isn't really anti-Semitism. I may not be Jewish, but I would know better than you."
"Oh great, X Senator ((Jewish) (D (R) -- Tel Aviv) is speaking. Who's country does he really work for?"
"You people need to wake up to your people's role in the Holocaust."

So yes, we have seen ""Hey Jewish folks...its time to wake up and get the f*cking message!!!!!" " and we get the "message" loud and clear.

This OP was not accusatory, it was one that says, look beyond your nose and see "racism is NOT over!" Be aware!

As an added bonus, this video is but one which demonstrates the difference in how blacks are treated....



sheshe2

(84,171 posts)
202. So many hateful statements rolled into one post.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 04:02 PM
Feb 2014

And yes I have seen them here.

I don't know how you cope with the bashing, Behind the Aegis. I really don't.

Some people refuse to see what is plainly in front of them. Racism exists. It is such an ugly way to go through life.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
234. And also "hey women folks..."
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 05:38 PM
Feb 2014

DU is at time just a microcosm of the US society as a whole. The privileged few feeling threatened and lashing out because of it. It's a shame really.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
285. I believe the OP is accusatory...
Fri Feb 21, 2014, 10:43 AM
Feb 2014

but only Smartypants' contribution. George Will couldn't have come up with a more perfect example of a "liberal scold." Her finger-wagging approach will NOT get through to those who need to hear colorofchange.org's message, and as stated elsewhere in this thread, her approach is guaranteed to alienate her intended audience. DUers like to poo-poo "tone," but tone matters. Messaging matters.

Speaking of messaging, the hashtag #dangerousblackkids is thought-provoking and brilliant. I felt many different emotions while viewing the images -- mostly sad -- without feeling manipulated. Seriously, this is good stuff and I applaud those who came up with the campaign:



https://twitter.com/mevansarthurs/status/435879426514247680

They're doing just fine, without this sort of garbage:

"Hey white folks...its time to wake up and get the f*cking message!!!!!"











freshwest

(53,661 posts)
313. But in a 'post-racial' America, why do whites still identify as white? Methinks those worried about
Sun Mar 16, 2014, 03:47 AM
Mar 2014
being bashed as whites, should check their color, if they're gonna pick a side.

Do you get where I'm coming from here?

Thanks for the LOL cartoon.




Squinch

(51,111 posts)
135. Well, I guess this answers the question about whether the post will make you
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 07:49 AM
Feb 2014

reflect on YOUR belief system.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
293. Tone matters.
Fri Feb 21, 2014, 11:12 AM
Feb 2014

Colorofchange.org and #dangerousblackkids set the perfect tone, but Smartypants comes across as shrill, with a twist of Peggy Noonan's condescension. I imagine a greater audience would listen to the former, but tune out the latter.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
295. You and I don't get to choose other people's tone
Fri Feb 21, 2014, 11:17 AM
Feb 2014

They don't have to make themselves more palatable to you. Being sweet and gentle doesn't actually improve the success of oppressed people anyway. It just makes them easier to dismiss. Which, honestly, appears to be the purpose of the tone argument in the first place.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
296. Did I say we did? But if the tone isn't palatable to an audience...
Fri Feb 21, 2014, 11:35 AM
Feb 2014

the message won't be heard.

Color of Change and #dangerousblackkids got it right, but I imagine many are turned off by Smarty. At least I am -- she comes across as condescending and somewhat hysterical. And many of those Twitter pics are "sweet and gentle" (like the one I posted upthread of the little boy playing Legos), and they pack quite a wallop. Same with the pic of the little boy about to "steal" while playing baseball.

I just find nothing inspirational in Smartypants' blogging, and I imagine I'm not alone. Ugh, enough of her, give me Rude or Pierce. Two who truly know how to wield their mighty pens.

Response to gollygee (Reply #295)

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
294. Not from colorofchange.org or #dangerousblackkids...
Fri Feb 21, 2014, 11:16 AM
Feb 2014

but Smartypants. This is not helpful:

"Hey white folks...its time to wake up and get the f*cking message!!!!!"


I guarantee those that need to hear the message will tune it out.
 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
88. Just a FYI, you're doing exactly what you're supposed to do.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 12:51 AM
Feb 2014

You're being suckered.

Pay attention, and think.

Sissyk

(12,665 posts)
91. K&R
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 01:04 AM
Feb 2014

Thanks for this, sheshe2.

Awesome to see and read.

Also, I just want to squeeeeze that little guy playing ball on the cheeks!!! He is so adorable. But, they all are.

ps. As a lily white woman, I understand your message.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
116. for the life of me, I do not get the offense taken here. do black lives not matter? is it hurting
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 03:58 AM
Feb 2014

you to be reminded of this? What the fucking fuck? What a nasty bunch of responses. Who raised you people?

Sheldon Cooper

(3,724 posts)
131. Oh come on, bettyellen.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 06:55 AM
Feb 2014

Everyone needs to get it through their thick heads that MY hurt feelings are way more important than any dead black kid. Get with the program!!

<-----for the impaired (because apparently this is necessary)

WatermelonRat

(340 posts)
239. The offense is to the implication that they would think otherwise.
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 05:48 PM
Feb 2014

To use an imperfect analogy, remember back during Occupy when right-wing pundits were giving "advice" to people struggling to find jobs? Advice that boiled down to "take a shower and put some work into it"? People weren't offended by the idea of washing and working hard, they were offended at the insinuation that they were unwashed slackers that needed to be told these things.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
240. people post activist stuff here ALL THE TIME that could be- but isn't taken personally....
Thu Feb 20, 2014, 05:57 PM
Feb 2014

but we have people here at DU suggesting- on this thread, that blacks should maybe focus on black on black crime and put institutionalized racism on the back burner! Yeah, because it hurt their feelings.
I repeat, what the FUCK?