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Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:02 PM

 

In defense of George Zimmerman.

I see people doing just that while being careful to claim they're not.

Anti-OWS, anti-union, pro-gun, defending Zimmerman; how many conservatives post to this forum?

116 replies, 12974 views

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Arrow 116 replies Author Time Post
Reply In defense of George Zimmerman. (Original post)
UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2012 OP
sikorsky Mar 2012 #1
Cali_Democrat Mar 2012 #9
sikorsky Mar 2012 #11
Cali_Democrat Mar 2012 #12
Cali_Democrat Mar 2012 #19
sikorsky Mar 2012 #22
Cali_Democrat Mar 2012 #26
Scuba Mar 2012 #98
Mojorabbit Mar 2012 #89
Cali_Democrat Mar 2012 #91
TheMadMonk Mar 2012 #30
belcffub Mar 2012 #100
Th1onein Mar 2012 #53
crunch60 Mar 2012 #96
Downtown Hound Mar 2012 #109
EOTE Mar 2012 #114
Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #37
sabrina 1 Mar 2012 #48
Cali_Democrat Mar 2012 #81
uppityperson Mar 2012 #20
Justice wanted Mar 2012 #28
frylock Mar 2012 #35
morningfog Mar 2012 #46
scheming daemons Mar 2012 #95
LanternWaste Mar 2012 #108
Cali_Democrat Mar 2012 #116
appleannie1 Mar 2012 #2
Son of Gob Mar 2012 #6
UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2012 #8
Lizzie Poppet Mar 2012 #16
TheMadMonk Mar 2012 #32
DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2012 #56
Son of Gob Mar 2012 #59
pennylane100 Mar 2012 #15
Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #42
peacebird Mar 2012 #3
joeybee12 Mar 2012 #4
sikorsky Mar 2012 #14
uppityperson Mar 2012 #21
sikorsky Mar 2012 #33
UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2012 #50
Dragonfli Mar 2012 #72
groundloop Mar 2012 #83
discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2012 #94
crunch60 Mar 2012 #97
peacebird Mar 2012 #25
baldguy Mar 2012 #17
Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2012 #93
frylock Mar 2012 #36
MoonRiver Mar 2012 #5
KansDem Mar 2012 #7
2ndAmForComputers Mar 2012 #23
Straw Man Mar 2012 #113
2ndAmForComputers Mar 2012 #115
frylock Mar 2012 #39
mysuzuki2 Mar 2012 #10
Taverner Mar 2012 #13
TheWraith Mar 2012 #18
TheMadMonk Mar 2012 #87
Dragonfli Mar 2012 #88
Dragonfli Mar 2012 #24
randome Mar 2012 #27
Dragonfli Mar 2012 #31
randome Mar 2012 #40
Dragonfli Mar 2012 #44
randome Mar 2012 #65
Dragonfli Mar 2012 #69
Bluenorthwest Mar 2012 #78
randome Mar 2012 #85
UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2012 #52
morningfog Mar 2012 #47
randome Mar 2012 #66
morningfog Mar 2012 #99
randome Mar 2012 #101
morningfog Mar 2012 #102
randome Mar 2012 #103
morningfog Mar 2012 #104
lib_wit_it Mar 2012 #110
frogmarch Mar 2012 #29
sikorsky Mar 2012 #34
frogmarch Mar 2012 #38
Really people... Mar 2012 #41
KeepItReal Mar 2012 #45
morningfog Mar 2012 #49
frylock Mar 2012 #51
Post removed Mar 2012 #57
DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2012 #58
Really people... Mar 2012 #61
UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2012 #62
Really people... Mar 2012 #64
Dragonfli Mar 2012 #67
UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2012 #70
DianaForRussFeingold Mar 2012 #74
aikoaiko Mar 2012 #68
uppityperson Mar 2012 #73
EmeraldCityGrl Mar 2012 #86
X_Digger Mar 2012 #90
lonestarnot Mar 2012 #92
KG Mar 2012 #43
Dragonfli Mar 2012 #55
Warren Stupidity Mar 2012 #54
Paladin Mar 2012 #107
Kali Mar 2012 #60
UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2012 #63
Kali Mar 2012 #71
Quantess Mar 2012 #75
Dragonfli Mar 2012 #77
Quantess Mar 2012 #80
MNBrewer Mar 2012 #76
Dragonfli Mar 2012 #79
UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2012 #82
Dragonfli Mar 2012 #84
Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #105
Bake Mar 2012 #106
arthritisR_US Mar 2012 #112
arthritisR_US Mar 2012 #111

Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Original post)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:05 PM

1. Are you perhaps confusing support for the right to a fair trial with 'conservatism'?

 

The guy has been convicted in the media without so much as a formal charge. I can't believe that's what "progressives" actually want...but maybe they do now.

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:17 PM

9. "without so much as a formal charge"

 

Cops sat on their assess and did nothing. I'm delighted that the media has gotten involved. Without the media, Zimmerman would surely escape justice. At least there's a chance he can still rot in jail for the rest of his miserable life. You should be happy about that fact.

Regardless, his family should sue not only Zimmerman, but the entire Sanford Police Dept.

What did the cops do wrong? Pretty much everything:

- No drug or alcohol test on Zimmerman even though that's standard procedure

- They let him keep the gun that night...no test for ballistics obviously

- The police "corrected" witnesses to fit Zimmerman's side of the story

- Police said Zimmerman was the one screaming even though 3 witnesses thought it was Trayvon and the 911 tapes clearly sound like a kid screaming for help.

- The police never got thorough statements from witnesses such as Mary Cutcher at the scene. She tried to contact police to give a more detailed statement, but the cops blew her off.

- They let Trayvon's body sit in the morgue for 3 days as "John Doe" even though they had his phone and could have contacted his parents or someone else using his phone.

- They never questioned the girl who was on the phone with him right before he was shot. No investigation into that.

- They told Trayvon's dad that Zimmerman had a "squeaky clean" record even though he was arrested for assault/battery.


Zimmerman is going down.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:23 PM

11. Fine, you're willing to convict without a trial. I get it now.

 

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:24 PM

12. The point is we want a trial

 

The cops never even arrested him.

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:30 PM

19. The accused in the case you just posted was arrested and will face trial

 

Zimmerman? Not so much. At least, not yet.

However, the pressure is changing that. The media pressure is working, clearly.

U mad?

Ya, u mad.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #19)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:36 PM

22. No, I am not mad but the tenor of the discussion clearly indicates a prejudice toward guilt

 

without any trial. You surely acknowledge that, and I might remind you that in the case I mentioned, going the 'other way', a lot of people have already convicted THAT kid, in their own minds, without any trial (yet). Yes, Mr. Martin was executed without benefit of legal counsel or trial, that does not mean others should unless you want to devolve our society into complete chaos.

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #22)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:40 PM

26. We want a trial. That's all we want

 

Pressure will continue to be brought to bear until it happens. This cannot stand. Zimmerman cannot walk away without being arrested and facing trial.

The cops didn't do their jobs and failed to arrest him. The police work was sloppy, corrupt and obstructed justice IMO. Now it's up to citizens and media folks to make sure the trial happens.

Don't like it? Tough.

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #22)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 06:02 AM

98. You're missing the whole point. If Zimmerman was on trial, this would be a non-story.

 

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #19)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 11:58 PM

89. It has national media coverage. It will go to trial.

I can't believe how many people are ready to fry this guy without giving him due process. I am pretty sure he is guilty from
what the media has reported but I like not having hysterical mobs running around ready to nail someone without due process.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #89)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:07 AM

91. We just want a trial

 

That's all we want.

But there's no denying this would have been swept under that rug had it not been for the massive outrage.

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:50 PM

30. NO! He enumerated eight reasons why this whole mess stinks...

 

...like a three day old pile of regurgitated fish guts.

Why there must be an independent investigation, not just of Zimmerman's actions, but the actions surrounding this incident by the members of the Sanford PD.

Why there must be a trial if not multiple trials.

I hope Cali D is right and Zimmerman does go down. AFTER a scrupulously fair trial.


Strikes me, you yourself KNOW that Zimmerman can't be found anything but guilty, and you're worried about what that might mean for SYG laws.

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #30)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:36 AM

100. if this goes to trial and he's found guility with the existing SYG laws in place

then that is confirmation that the law works... and Zimmerman had no protection under that law and the local PD did not understand that law... I am more worried if it goes to trail and he if found innocent.

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:33 PM

53. That's not what they wrote, Dude.

But this man should be arrested, because they've got probable cause to arrest him.

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #11)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:11 AM

96. The Cops screwed up big time in this case. Massive negligence in collecting vital

 

evidence just for starters. I hope a thorough investigation if forthcoming. This "stand your ground" law, was created by asshat Jeb Bush.

How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National

http://www.thenation.com/blog/166978/how-alec-took-floridas-license-kill-law-national

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #11)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:37 PM

109. Actually, I think all we want IS a trial

So far, that hasn't been fast in coming.

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #11)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:27 PM

114. No, we want a trial, period.

You are aware that only the legal system can convict, right? You seem to have the silly notion that some people chatting on the internet can convict a person, that's incredibly silly.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:06 PM

37. As the poster said, there is no charge yet.

An investigation by the State Atty was being done before the DOJ decided to get involved.

The case and the investigation is progressing.

But without defending Zimmerman, who I think targeted the teen because he thought he looked suspicious, I have seen in DU a dangerous mindset to "prosecute" the man without so much as a formal investigation OR a decision to prosecute by the D.A. Some posters want Zimmerman to go straight to a trial and bypass the rest of the legal process.

That's what has been disturbing. Zimmerman certainly seems guilty, and there doesn't seem to be any doubt he pursued the teen. But all the facts aren't out yet, and there has to be a formal investigation.

That is how the legal process works. And that's a good thing. The heat and passion of the public should not determine whether someone is guilty (although I guess we all do decide that in high profile cases - I mean, who did NOT think that the guy from Holland or Denmark hadn't killed Natalie Holloway? But even in that case, we had him on tape saying he threw her in the ocean.)

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:27 PM

48. Just one correction, the body was not in the morgue for three days. The shooting was on the 26th

at approx. 7.20 PM and he was pronounced dead at 7.30 PM. Afther the family reported their son missing (not sure if that was the night of the shooting or the following morning) the cops showed the father a photo of his son on the 27th late that morning. So less than a day, although no thanks to any efforts on the part of the PD. And he was sent to the morgue as a John Doe despite the fact that he had a cell phone which could have been used to identify him.

But the 'three days' is incorrect, just don't want false information to be jumped on by the defenders of this murder and used to discredit those hoping for justice.

Edited to correct timeline of shooting and death.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #48)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 11:19 PM

81. Thank you for the correction

 

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:31 PM

20. You rather miss the point that we want him to go to trial. So far he hasn't been charged and that is

wrong. I want him charged and to go to trial. There was NO investigation and THAT is a huge problem for most of us.

You do have it right that he hasn't been charged. You miss the fact that that is the problem. No investigation. No charges. A problem.

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:43 PM

28. How can there be a fair trail WHEN CHAIN OF EVIDENCE HAS BEEN COMPROMISED BEYOND belief?

The police let this man go! They didn't even investigate anything in a proper manor.

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:04 PM

35. oh look another concerned n00b

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:25 PM

46. Like flies to shit....

 

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:57 AM

95. He can't get a fair trial until he is F***ING ARRESTED


He should be arrested... and THEN he can have his fair trial.

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:17 PM

108. Zimmerman has not been tried nor convicted outside of the metaphorical

Zimmerman has not been tried nor convicted outside of the metaphorical. And as the metaphorical holds little to no legal weight, any perceived "convictions" also hold no legal weight or consequence.

Fair trials are conducted in courts of law. Discussions take place on Discussion Boards... these are two wholly and separate things.

That being said, I imagine that there are indeed, non-legal consequences to shooting an unarmed youth; which may allow us an additional reason not to shoot innocent pedestrians-- I do not see that additional layer of protection by social mores as a bad thing, however I do realize many people may perceive public outrage at the shooting of an innocent youth to be... bad?

Post Script-- the vast majority of people on this board do indeed wish Zimmerman gets a jury trial in front of twelve of his peers; but conflating a trial with public opinion does little service to any validity you may be attempting to illustrate.

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #1)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:36 PM

116. sikorsky is no longer with us

 

he just couldn't contain himself.

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Original post)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:06 PM

2. He is innocent until proven guilty in this country. But first, he has to be charged.

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Response to appleannie1 (Reply #2)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:12 PM

6. No, he's a murderer. Whether he's charged or convicted is irrelevant to that fact.

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #6)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:15 PM

8. Absolutely right.

 

That kid would still be alive if that asshole hadn't targeted him.

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #6)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:27 PM

16. False, actually.

 

He's a killer...but homicide =/= murder. The latter term has a rather specific set of definitions, and until he is convicted of the crime of murder, they don't apply. Do I think he's a murderr? Damn straight I do...but what I think is irrelevant to whether he actually is or not.

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #6)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:51 PM

32. Might be a fact. But until proven in a court of law, it's an unsubstantiated one. /nt

 

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #6)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:37 PM

56. Steve Holt!

 

Thank you or the AD sig line; love it. Now, back to our regularly scheduled thread.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #56)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:44 PM

59. You're welcome

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Response to appleannie1 (Reply #2)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:25 PM

15. Well someone has not been paying attention.

His innocence or guilt can only be determined WHEN HE IS CHARGED.

He chased down and killed someone in spite of being warned to to follow the victim. He was not tested for drugs or alcohol or traces of how many shots he fired and was allowed to go home WITH HIS GUN. His young victim was, however, tested for drugs and alcohol and a background check run on him.

Instead of suggesting we wait for justice to be served, you might want to ask he has not been charged, why was he not drug checked and why has his record as a trouble maker not make the police just a little bit more curious.








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Response to appleannie1 (Reply #2)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:14 PM

42. First, it has to be investigated to see if there's enough evidence...

to justify an indictment.

Knowing in your gut someone is guilty is different than proving it.

How could NONE of the neighbors not bothered to peep out the window and witness anything? Seriously? No one?

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Original post)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:07 PM

3. I notice some of those supporting zimmerman are very new to DU....

Might explain some of the posts....

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Response to peacebird (Reply #3)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:07 PM

4. Yup..happens all the time...nt

 

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Response to peacebird (Reply #3)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:25 PM

14. I am probably one of those "supporters" and I resent that, I don't "support" HIM, I support his

 

right to a fair trial. Sadly, I see some here who do not. I have probably come to the wrong place, it sounds like a Star Chamber, not a progressive, Democratic site.

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #14)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:33 PM

21. Do you want him charge, brought to trial? Simple questions. Please answer.

If you are happy that there was NO investigation, if you do not want him charged, are happy that even with the evidence brought forward after all the media attention, if you are fine with him simply walking off without being charged, then yes. You do support him.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #21)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:55 PM

33. I want a trial if that's the appropriate avenue. I don't know what 'evidence' exists and I don't

 

think you or anyone else here does either. None of us were present when the killing took place.

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #33)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:29 PM

50. I have enough deleted posts so you'll just have to

 

imagine what my response to you would be if I wasn't choosing my words carefully.

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #50)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 10:48 PM

72. So can I (imagine), and i have a vivid imagination

You don't even have to type it.
+1 for the un-posted post using plain English without fear of deletion

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #33)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 11:23 PM

83. "Don't know what evidence exists" my ass.

There's a dead teenager for starters. There's the 911 call where Zimmerman was clearly told not to follow the victim, yet he did. And if you'll wake up and smell the crap, the cops tried to sweep this case under the rug. How the hell could they let Zimmerman go home WITH HIS GUN after he shot and killed someone. That gun is evidence in a death, now it's probably not admissible in court because there's no chain of custody.

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Response to groundloop (Reply #83)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:54 AM

94. Inadmissibility due to broken chain of custody is not in question...

...since the police never confiscated the weapon. If police today arrest Zimmerman and find the gun, ballistics can still match it to the victim if the bullets were recovered.

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #33)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:29 AM

97. Why don't you Read Post #9. regarding evidence that was "overlooked"

 

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #14)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:37 PM

25. I want to see him charged and brought to trial. You seem to think those of us frustrated by the pace

Of "justice" in Florida are vigilantes who want to hang Zimmerman. When what I see here is folks who want him tried. We believe the police handling of this incident is appalling.
The tapes present a very different picture than what the police originally alleged, perhaps that is why they were tried so hard not to release them.

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Response to peacebird (Reply #3)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:28 PM

17. And some have been lurking in the gungeon for a very long time.

 

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Response to baldguy (Reply #17)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:30 AM

93. name NAMES....please!!! Mr. Magoo.

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Response to peacebird (Reply #3)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:06 PM

36. yep. prolly have nra.org email addresses as well

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Original post)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:11 PM

5. The problem with these posters' positions, even though they may mean well,

is that there was NO investigation into this travesty. An unarmed child was gunned down by a vigilante and the police did nada. That smells of overt racism. I.E.: a black kid was killed. NO BIG DEAL. Move on, nothing to see here.

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Original post)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:13 PM

7. I don't think folks are saying he's guilty...

...as much as saying he received kid-gloves treatment from the local police.

I mean, a black 17-year-old is shot dead and the white guy whose gun did the killing walks freely. No arrest; no questions; no interrogation...nothing.

It took a national outcry for an investigation to commence...

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Response to KansDem (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:36 PM

23. Speak for yourself.

He's so guilty it isn't even funny. That's a fact, I have the right to state that fact, I will keep on stating that fact and whoever tells me I shouldn't state that fact can take a long walk off a short pier.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Reply #23)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:25 PM

113. Congratulations!

He's so guilty it isn't even funny. That's a fact, I have the right to state that fact, I will keep on stating that fact and whoever tells me I shouldn't state that fact can take a long walk off a short pier.

You just threw our legal system out the window and substituted the whim of a random individual for the presumption of innocence and the burden of proof. It must be nice to be omniscient.

Investigation, charge, trial, verdict. That's how it's supposed to work. Time to get the ball rolling.

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #113)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 06:05 PM

115. "You just threw our legal system out the window"

...

...

...


Wow.


I didn't know I was THAT powerful.

.

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Response to KansDem (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:08 PM

39. i'm saying he's guilty..

the preponderance of evidence certainly shows it. the obvious police coverup only serves to solidify my belief.

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Original post)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:18 PM

10. No, what progressives want is a thorough investigation of this whole incident.

Yes,we should be open to the possibility that there will be new information that will exonerate Zimmerman. That is theortically possible. But when you have a cop wannabe with a history of violent confrontations who calls the police 50 times in the past year, who ignores police instructions to stop following the "suspect" and who "patrols" with a loaded gun , a kid armed with a can of ice tea ends up dead as a result the police fail to do even a cursory investigation and allow a possible murderer to go home with his weopon, one cannot fail to conclude that no one gives a shit when some bozo kills a 17 year old kid. What progresives also want is for people to stop thinking that just because they are carrying a weopon that it allows them to use it. What progressives want is for people to stop shooting each other.

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Original post)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:25 PM

13. Thank ya!

 

Great way to lure the trolls into one spot too

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Original post)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:28 PM

18. Please do not question the motives of people who feel differently than you.

What you've just done is basically no different than the Bush administration calling people who were against the war unAmerican. It's a broad, blanket smear intended to discredit the opinions of anyone who feels differently than you do.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that Zimmerman committed either manslaughter or murder in the second degree, but that's no reason to shit on the opinions of people who feel differently or who take a skeptical wait-and-see attitude.

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #18)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 11:54 PM

87. If there was something to wait for, people might be more inclined...

 

...to take that advice.

What it took though was thousands and then millions upon millions of people ALL automatically reaching pretty much the same conclusion based upon the facts presented to the familiy/public in the begining AND at every fresh revelation since. There are no credible ALTERNATE SCENARIOS with any traction whatsoever being voiced. Objections are technical or irrelevantly peripheral to the central premise. AND the loudmouths like Rush are virtually silent on the matter instead of indulging in their usual trashing of the victim. Even Free Republic's worst are for the most part very sensibly keeping their mouths shut.

We know what happened in general. Details are irrelevant.

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #18)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 11:57 PM

88. People who would do something like that should be you and you alone

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Original post)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:36 PM

24. You can be a Heritage Foundation Disciple in love with guns and tax cuts and be

just fine here if you call yourself a Democrat, the line is too blurred by blue dog corporatists and free-trading tax-cutters for anything to be done about it.

Especially now that the new Dems have a president in office.

How many is hard to say. Depends on where you draw the line, 90's republican policies (now rehashed by dem leadership) only earns a centrist title. If you don't count them and go more conservative there are less, but if you count them, at least half conservatives post to this forum.

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Original post)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:41 PM

27. So anyone who disagrees with the things you support...

 

...are all guilty of being conservatives, huh? Nice.

Putting OWS in a thread about a kid's killing?

Priceless.

Not.

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Response to randome (Reply #27)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:51 PM

31. People are "guilty" of being conservatives because they support Conservative assumptions, thoughts

Last edited Wed Mar 21, 2012, 10:39 PM - Edit history (1)

prejudices and policies.

You can't just re-brand conservatism and fool anyone but yourself and the gullible. Even if such a Conservative parades around pretending to be progressive because they like this party more than the conservative one that has gone completely crazy (and perhaps won't take one in anymore).

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #31)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:08 PM

40. You are so clueless, it's difficult to know how to address you.

 

I am a lifelong Democrat. My father is gay and happily with someone. You, however, have a naive view of your fellow DUers that verges on being childish.

If you insist on seeing things in only 2 colors -black and white- I would suggest you get your vision checked.

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Response to randome (Reply #40)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:21 PM

44. You do not think that conservative ideas and assumptions are conservative?

If you don't know how to address me then don't.
Re-reading my post it appears you mistake this to mean you, It was meant to describe conservatives in the party, there are many.

Social issues can be the only thing that separates such people from Republican conservatives. (just think Newt on the economy but pro marriage equality, there are some blue dogs like that)

I see many colors, only a few are available in our system, of them the two largest groups are conservatives and progressives.
I fail to see how a conservative view or law becomes another color simply because the same view or law came not from Newt in 93 but a Dem in 2009. One cannot change red to blue because you prefer to see blue when red is in front of you. In my opinion, re-branding a color name from red to blue is the childish thing.

But then I have known the blue since the sixties and know what it actually looks like.

I am sorry if you took this personally, perhaps there is something within that you need to look closer at, perhaps you are in many ways a conservative and that is why you take it so personally.

I apologize that the only way you knew how to take my post is as some sort of attack against you personally, it truly was not meant as such.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #44)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 10:26 PM

65. Yeah, that doesn't sound personal at all.

 

Saying 'perhaps you are in many ways a conservative'. Nice try at passive-aggressiveness.

Doesn't work.

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Response to randome (Reply #65)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 10:33 PM

69. You took it personally, I was talking about conservatives, It appears part of you identifies as such

that's all.
Why else would you take it as about you and you alone?

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Response to randome (Reply #40)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 11:04 PM

78. What does your father's sexuality have to do with anything?

 

Why would you mention that?

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #78)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 11:29 PM

85. An 'indication', nothing more, that I would have more in common...

 

...with Democratic ideals as opposed to Republican 'ideals'.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #31)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:32 PM

52. What Dragonfli said.

 

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Response to randome (Reply #27)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:26 PM

47. Your hate of OWS brought you in. Hilarious!

 

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Response to morningfog (Reply #47)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 10:27 PM

66. Another Black-and-Whiter heard from.

 

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Response to randome (Reply #66)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:24 AM

99. Far from it. You should reread the OP.

 

If you are, in fact, anti-union, anti-OWS and defending Zimmerman, you certainly have the conservative credentials nailed down.

YOU came in to defend those with positions that differ, and that is fine. If you don't hold each of the conservative positions listed in the OP, it isn't about you. You seem to not defend Zimmerman, yet take such offense due to your loathing of OWS that you had to chime in. It's funny to me.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #99)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:44 AM

101. Guys! Look! Over here!

 

I got me some groupies!

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Response to randome (Reply #101)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:47 AM

102. When you post are you anti-union? Anit-OWS? Pro-Zimmerman?

 

If you answered no to any of those, the OP was not directed at you. Me thinks you doth protest too much.

Honestly, I have no idea, nor do I care, how you post on any of the other subjects. I do remember how anti-OWS you are though.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #102)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:50 AM

103. This is petty bickering between us.

 

It shows disrespect to the original subject of this thread. And it's disrespectful to DUers, as well.

If you want to start a thread on OWS, go to the Activism forum. I will refrain from responding to any other posts that don't have anything to do with Trayvon Martin.

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Response to randome (Reply #103)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:52 AM

104. Respectfully, you dodged. This thread is about conservative postings on DU.

 

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Response to randome (Reply #101)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:00 AM

110. No, you don't. But head on over to Freeperville and you'll have plenty.

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Original post)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:49 PM

29. "Innocent until proven guilty" is for

courts of law. Although I want to know all the facts about the case, I am not a court of law.

Based on what I know now, I consider Zimmerman guilty.

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Response to frogmarch (Reply #29)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 08:57 PM

34. I sincerely hope you are never on a jury.

 

No matter the ethnicity of the accused. Bah.

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #34)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:07 PM

38. If I ever am, then

I will base my decision on the evidence presented in court.

DU is not a court of law, and I'm not on a jury sitting in judgement of Zimmerman. My opinion is that he is guilty.

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Original post)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:13 PM

41. Stand Your Ground is the law

 

right or wrong if the guy felt like his life was in danger he followed the law! Last I checked I wouldnt want to be arrested for using the rights my state has given me.

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Response to Really people... (Reply #41)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:23 PM

45. Zimmerman is outside of that law...says the writer of the bill

The authors of Florida's controversial "stand your ground" self-defense law say George Zimmerman should probably be arrested for shooting Trayvon Martin, reports the Miami Herald.

"He has no protection under my law," former Sen. Durell Peaden told the newspaper.

It is the fact that Zimmerman ignored the 911 operator's advice not to follow Martin that former Sen. Peaden says disqualifies him from claiming self-defense under the law.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57401619-504083/author-of-stand-your-ground-law-george-zimmerman-should-probably-be-arrested-for-killing-trayvon-martin/

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Response to Really people... (Reply #41)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:27 PM

49. You should be ashamed.

 

You shouldn't be surprised if someone calls you a racist apologist.

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Response to Really people... (Reply #41)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:29 PM

51. and here's another one..

can't swing a dead cat around here this week without hitting some n00b overly concerned with zimmerman's due process. go figure.

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Response to Really people... (Reply #41)


Response to Really people... (Reply #41)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:40 PM

58. You've lost your way In life...

 

...when you use a rationale like that to justify murdering a kid out for a walk.

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Response to Really people... (Reply #41)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:46 PM

61. I lost it long ago!

 

this country has only began to see the bad.

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Response to Really people... (Reply #61)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 10:04 PM

62. Let's hope your stay is a short one.

 

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #62)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 10:22 PM

64. Lol

 

There are way more like me than you think!

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Response to Really people... (Reply #64)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 10:28 PM

67. Yes, they are often called sociopaths, look up the word. /nt

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Response to Really people... (Reply #64)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 10:40 PM

70. I can see that.

 

Now go back to your cave.

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Response to Really people... (Reply #61)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 10:52 PM

74. No, You haven't lost everything till you lose your soul...

I think you have the wrong attitude--this country has only begun to see the good!

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Response to Really people... (Reply #41)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 10:33 PM

68. I generally support the SYG laws, and feelings have nothing to do with SYG.


There has to be reason -- some unprovoked behavior that warrants a reasonable belief that grave injury is imminent.

Really.

added:

Florida Law: 3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

If Zimmerman chased him, cornered him, threatened him, or physicallly made contact with Trayvon who was not committing a crime, then Zimmerman was very likely not acting lawfully and this law should not offer him any protection. We need a full investigation of the facts.

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Response to Really people... (Reply #41)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 10:51 PM

73. If he felt a black teenager walking quietly through the neighborhood was a threat to his life, he

followed the law. So, shoot because he's black is ok with you if I fear people with dark skin?

That is the question, did he feel his life was in danger. Why would he follow someone, stalk them, if he felt his life was in danger?

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Response to Really people... (Reply #41)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 11:53 PM

86. In the years I've been reading and posting here...

you have the dubious honor of being the first person
I have ever sent an alert or complaint about.

Congrats knuckledragger

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Response to EmeraldCityGrl (Reply #86)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:05 AM

90. PPR'd. n/t

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Response to Really people... (Reply #41)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:07 AM

92. Since when is stalking and killing an innocent unarmed kid the law?

 

Are you behind a law like that one?

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Original post)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:15 PM

43. in answer to your question:

plenty.

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Response to KG (Reply #43)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:37 PM

55. We appear to both not realize how conservatism is but one shade of progressiveness

As I have been lectured and chastised to supposedly believe (up thread).

I agree with you, red does not become blue because color blind people think it is, and conservatism does not become progressive simply because it comes from the mouth of a new Dem.

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Original post)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:34 PM

54. This progressive board tolerates extreme right wing positions on gun infatuation.

 

It is just a fact. A sad fact but a fact nonetheless.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #54)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:04 PM

107. Bullseye.


In the weeks leading up to the 2008 election, there was a poll in the DU Gungeon, concerning likely voting action. 45% of the respondents indicated their intention to vote Republican on the basis of gun policy. I've always suspected that the 45% total was on the low side of actual results....

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Original post)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:45 PM

60. what if they are only one of those?

is anybody who disagrees with any issue you decree important a conservative? is there a list with points somewhere? best 2 out of 3, 3 out of 5? 9 out of 10?

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Response to Kali (Reply #60)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 10:09 PM

63. Yes.

 

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #63)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 10:44 PM

71. the maths don't work!

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Original post)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 10:54 PM

75. Seeing that the Democratic party has moved so far to the right,

there are indeed democrats who are yesterday's republicans.

Are they Democrats? Sure.
Are they progressives / liberals? No.

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Response to Quantess (Reply #75)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 10:58 PM

77. You put that very well, better by far than my attempts, simple and indisputable.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #77)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 11:09 PM

80. Thanks!

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Original post)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 10:58 PM

76. Perhaps the President should just put his name on the "kill by drone strike" list

Problem solved, including "due process" according to our AG.

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #76)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 11:06 PM

79. Makes as much sense as Zimmerman's "kill by gun strike", he also solved his goals sans Due Process

Perhaps they can work together on a project (if he is not so afraid of Holder that he has to protect himself sans due process leaving the meeting one shy of a collaboration)

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #79)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 11:20 PM

82. Yeah, I'd be afraid of Holder if I were him.

 

It is an election year and this has gone viral.

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #82)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 11:27 PM

84. Well, there ya go! He has the right to defend himself against Holder, by shooting if he wants

Hell, unlike that little boy, he has much to actually fear from Holder, and it it has nothing to do with melanin content.
(that is if Holder seeks Justice in this case which appears likely)

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:07 AM

105. There needs to be an independent investigation and a trial.

 

I think what is going to come out of this is a better definition of when you can stand your ground and defend yourself.

If you go looking for a fight and you find one you can't claim self-defense, even if you didn't start the actual fight.

And that's what it looks like happened with Zimmerman.

He went looking for a fight. We don't know who started the actual physical confrontation, but it doesn't matter. Zimmerman went looking for a confrontation, and he got one. Even if Martin was beating his ass, Zimmerman started the entire chain of events.

And he knew it, or should have known it, as soon as he stepped out of his car.

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:27 AM

106. I own a gun (several, in fact), and would use it in self defense.

But SYG or no (and KY has SYG), I wouldn't chase somebody down and provoke a confrontation. If you ask me, based on what we know at this point, Zimmerman is guilty as hell. But let's HAVE A TRIAL and find out.

Bake

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Response to Bake (Reply #106)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:17 AM

112. That's how I feel but he has to be

arrested and charged first. Hopefully that will happen with the higher investigations.

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:08 AM

111. I see a difference between knowing in my

being that Zimmerman is guilty of murder and at the same time the necessity of due process.

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