Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 09:52 AM Jan 2014

The Nation: Who Backs the TPP and a ‘NAFTA on Steroids’? ALEC

If President Obama uses his State of the Union address to launch a major push for “fast-track” authority to bypass congressional input and oversight on a sweeping Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal, he will need new allies to generate support around the country.

The president won’t be able to look to organized labor. Unions are overwhelmingly opposed to a deal that Communications Workers of America posters refer to as “NAFTA on Steroids.”

<snip>

In fact, if Obama decides to ramp up his advocacy for a free-trade strategy that progressive Americans tend to see as a threat to workers, farmers, the environment, human rights and democracy, he won’t be able to count on many traditional allies to stir up grassroots support in the states. That’s one of the reasons there remains considerable uncertainty about whether the president really will—in a speech that is expected to focus on income equality—spend substantial time talking up a trade agenda that has drawn broad opposition from House and Senate Democrats and so much of his base.

If the president does go all in for the TPP, he will find himself in strange company—with groups that promote policies that critics argue are responsible for the growing gap between a wealthy few and an increasingly impoverished many.

There is, for instance, one group that maintains an extensive network of political connections in states across the country and is enthusiastically on board for “the expedited conclusions and approval of the TPP.”

<snip>

http://www.thenation.com/blog/178072/who-backs-tpp-and-nafta-steroids-alec#

45 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The Nation: Who Backs the TPP and a ‘NAFTA on Steroids’? ALEC (Original Post) cali Jan 2014 OP
Well, there's a shocker. Kick! nt stillwaiting Jan 2014 #1
Not really strange company if you think about what he's doing. Lasher Jan 2014 #2
Who doesn't think TPP is all that big a deal? ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #3
Krugman focuses on the trade aspects of it- which are not the bulk of the problem cali Jan 2014 #4
I did read the letters that followed that "foolish piece" ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #5
I've provided it over and over again. all you have to do is type in cali tpp cali Jan 2014 #6
That's very, er ... accommodating of you ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #9
'wiping the drool off the chins...?" MineralMan Jan 2014 #25
Krugman really underperformed there BelgianMadCow Jan 2014 #11
Thanks, I'll look into Moyer ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #13
Thanks - listening now... polichick Jan 2014 #29
Yves and Commenters on "Naked Capitalism" have been after Krugman to KoKo Jan 2014 #43
Krugman concedes that he'll be doing some homework on the issue Babel_17 Jan 2014 #10
Good on Krugman BelgianMadCow Jan 2014 #12
Thanks.n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #14
BINGO...It imposes laws that people would not want if they knew Armstead Jan 2014 #18
^^ this ^^ and I might add, De Gucht went entirely "NWO in your face" BelgianMadCow Jan 2014 #41
I'm glad he decided to "do some homework" pa28 Jan 2014 #39
Yes...there was a lot of Progressive Push Back on Krugman for not doing TPP KoKo Jan 2014 #44
This message was self-deleted by its author antigop Jan 2014 #15
No he was wriong on NAFTA in the 90's and he's wrong now Armstead Jan 2014 #16
Bipartisan free trade should end because Alec supports it Progressive dog Jan 2014 #7
And here's the list of companies backing the TPP BelgianMadCow Jan 2014 #8
Too much money at work here. This tells me it's going to happen. Auggie Jan 2014 #22
Can you provide us with a list of unions and environmental groups that support the TPP? Enthusiast Jan 2014 #24
I heard the Bankster union (called International Bank of Settlements) is pro BelgianMadCow Jan 2014 #42
That adds up to a lot of bribes..er...campaign contributions. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2014 #34
+10000000 woo me with science Feb 2014 #45
Obama's stance reflects the Fatal Contradiction in too many centrist Democrats Armstead Jan 2014 #17
A-One perfect summation Populist_Prole Jan 2014 #21
+1 a whole bunch.......nt Enthusiast Jan 2014 #23
Which makes them lying liars just like RepubliCons. polichick Jan 2014 #33
He's been saving his best running shoes for ALEC jsr Jan 2014 #19
We can stop the TPP if we make a **** load of noise. iandhr Jan 2014 #20
Which requires the peole who either buy into the "free trade" horseshit or don't care, to... Armstead Jan 2014 #27
the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal polynomial Jan 2014 #26
Sen Wyden Thinks TPP Can Be Great! fredamae Jan 2014 #28
Not good news about Wyden- he's about to take over the Senate Finance Committee cali Jan 2014 #30
Sadly-it seems to fredamae Jan 2014 #32
Wyden & DeFazio. bvar22 Jan 2014 #36
DeFazio is one of the most vocal members of Congress Against the tpp cali Jan 2014 #37
Yes. fredamae Jan 2014 #38
Between the NSA surveillance and the TPP, Obama is working against the base of Democrats JDPriestly Jan 2014 #31
This message was self-deleted by its author polichick Jan 2014 #35
HUGE K & R !!! WillyT Jan 2014 #40

Lasher

(27,689 posts)
2. Not really strange company if you think about what he's doing.
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 10:25 AM
Jan 2014

He's executing his neoliberal economic agenda. That's the kind of flies it attracts.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
3. Who doesn't think TPP is all that big a deal? ...
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 11:03 AM
Jan 2014

Paul Krugman. And he says why.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/12/tpp/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

And I tend to trust his judgment, as he has proven himself right far more than wrong on matters of economics.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
4. Krugman focuses on the trade aspects of it- which are not the bulk of the problem
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 11:13 AM
Jan 2014

"The big talk about TPP isn’t that silly. But my starting point for things like this is that most conventional barriers to trade — tariffs, import quotas, and so on — are already quite low, so that it’s hard to get big effects out of lowering them still further"

as he says tariffs are already quite low.

In this very, very short piece, he doesn't address investor state disputes or sovereignty or copyright or drug issues or any of the other myriad concerns that have been exhaustively researched.

sorry, but that piece by his is a joke. I suggest reading the letters that follow that foolish piece.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
5. I did read the letters that followed that "foolish piece" ...
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 11:26 AM
Jan 2014

Please provide me with some of the exhaustive research.

I'm not saying that TPP is a good thing, or a bad thing, as I do not know enough to make that determination. Again, because I'm largely ignorant on this issue, I tend to trust someone that has proven more right than wrong on economic issues.

You can help.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
6. I've provided it over and over again. all you have to do is type in cali tpp
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 11:28 AM
Jan 2014

that should bring you numerous links to organizations and individuals who have done the research. I'm sick of wiping the drool off the chins of those who won't be bothered to do their own research.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
9. That's very, er ... accommodating of you ...
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 11:54 AM
Jan 2014

tired of wiping the drool of the chins of those who won't bother to do their own research ... yet not to tired to post post after post of rants.

Better approach would have been to just post a link.

MineralMan

(146,360 posts)
25. 'wiping the drool off the chins...?"
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 01:02 PM
Jan 2014

Really, cali? Someone asks you a question and you provide an insult for an answer. I find that troubling.

I'm sure that won't convince you to treat other DUers more politely, but I had to mention it.

BelgianMadCow

(5,379 posts)
11. Krugman really underperformed there
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 11:58 AM
Jan 2014

I usually like his writings as well, but in this case he really didn't do himself justice. Looking at TPP as a free trade deal really misses the point.

Check out the segment Bill Moyers did to see, in a nutshell, why people think TPP is bad. And yes, aplying that reasoning, earlier trade agreements aren't good either.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017155918

polichick

(37,152 posts)
29. Thanks - listening now...
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 01:53 PM
Jan 2014

Only industry groups allowed to be involved, not environmentalists, etc.

Overrides national regulations.

Opposite of "free trade" - "gov't granted monopoly"

Good stuff. Actually good conversation about BAD stuff. Worth a listen!

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
43. Yves and Commenters on "Naked Capitalism" have been after Krugman to
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 07:42 PM
Jan 2014

SPEAK OUT against the TPP for awhile now.

I'm glad to hear that Paul is "considering it." If he is truly a Liberal...he should be all over this with Column Articles.

And...yes Bill Moyers is a Must Read and Watch if one want's not to "wander around." He has a long American History of what these Trade Agreements MEAN ..and the one to watch in reporting.

Babel_17

(5,400 posts)
10. Krugman concedes that he'll be doing some homework on the issue
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 11:55 AM
Jan 2014
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/14/tpp-and-ip-a-brief-note/

TPP and IP, A Brief Note

Dean Baker takes me to task over the Trans Pacific trade deal, arguing that it’s not really about trade — that the important (and harmful) stuff involves regulation and intellectual property rights.

I’m sympathetic to this argument; this was true, for example, of DR-CAFTA, the free trade agreement with Central America, which ended up being largely about pharma patents. Is TPP equally bad? I’ll do some homework and get back to you.


What Dean Baker said: http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs/beat-the-press/paul-krugman-and-tpp

... the point is that the TPP is not really about trade, it's about changing the regulatory process in ways that would almost certainly be opposed by the people in most of the countries included in the deal.


Googling this led me to an earlier DU thread. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024180829

BelgianMadCow

(5,379 posts)
12. Good on Krugman
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 12:00 PM
Jan 2014

I really, really liked the taking to task Dean Baker did, and it shows the character of Krugman he is able to admit he cut the corners a bit much.

BelgianMadCow

(5,379 posts)
41. ^^ this ^^ and I might add, De Gucht went entirely "NWO in your face"
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 04:50 PM
Jan 2014

He mentioned the following whilst annoucing the start of TTIP negotaitions: "the usual pressure groups will be up in arms about it".

pa28

(6,145 posts)
39. I'm glad he decided to "do some homework"
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 03:37 PM
Jan 2014

I wish he'd understood more about the issue before writing the original column but at least he's taking time to correct the record.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
44. Yes...there was a lot of Progressive Push Back on Krugman for not doing TPP
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 07:49 PM
Jan 2014

Thanks for the link for others to read...if they are interested, of course.

Response to cali (Reply #4)

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
16. No he was wriong on NAFTA in the 90's and he's wrong now
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 12:38 PM
Jan 2014

I think Krugman is spot on about many things. I have immense respect for his opinion.

But he does have a blind spot about "free trade." Always has.

BelgianMadCow

(5,379 posts)
8. And here's the list of companies backing the TPP
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 11:53 AM
Jan 2014
http://www.tppcoalition.org/Members%20of%20the%20Coalition.pdf

3M Company
Abbott
ACE Group
Advanced Medical Technology Association
Aflac International
American Apparel &Footwear Association
American Automotive Policy Council
American Chemistry Council
American Council of Life Insurers
American Feed Industry Association
American Forest & Paper Association
American Insurance Association
American Legislative Exchange Council
American Meat Institute
American Soybean Association
Amway
APL
Apple
Applied Materials
Archer Daniels
Midland Company
Association of Global Automakers
Biotechnology Industry Organization
Boeing
Business Roundtable
BSA
The Software Alliance
CA Technologies
Cargill
Caterpillar
Chevron
Chubb Corp
Citi group Inc
Coalition of Services Industries
The Coca Cola Company Inc
Computing Technology Industry Association
Conoco Phillips
Corn Refiners Association
Cotton Council International
Council of the Americas
Crop Life America
The Walt Disney Company
Distilled Spirits Council of the United States
The Dow Chemical Company
EBay
Emergency Committee for American Trade
Express Association of America
Exxon Mobil
Facebook
FedEx

Financial Services Forum
Fluor
Food Marketing Institute
Footwear Distributors and Retailers of America
Gap, Inc.
General Electric
General Motors

Glanbia USA
GlaxoSmithKline
Goldman Sachs
Grocery Manufacturers Association
Halliburton
Hanesbrands
Hewlett-Packard
Honda North America
Idaho Potato Commission
IDS International
IBM
Information Technology Industry Council
Intel
International Dairy Foods Association
International Intellectual Property Alliance (IIPA)
J.C. Penney
Johnson &
Johnson
Kraft Foods
Levi Strauss & Co.
Lilly

Louis Dreyfus Commodities
Mars
McGraw Hill
Financial
Metlife
Microsoft
Monsanto

Morgan Stanley
Motion Picture Association of America
Motor & Equipment Manufacturers Association
National Association of Manufacturers
National Cattlemen's Beef Association
National Center for APEC
National Confectioners Association
National Corn Growers Association
National Council of Wheat Growers
National Electrical Manufacturers Association
National Fisheries Institute
National Foreign Trade Council
National Milk Producers Federation
National Oilseed Processors Association
National Pork Producers Council
National Potato Council
National Retail Federation
National Turkey Federation
News Corporation
Nike

Northwest Horticultural Council
Novartis
Oracle
Outdoor Industry Association
Pet Food Institute
Pfizer
Philip Morris International
PhRMA
Plastics Industry Trade Association
PPG Industries
Procter & Gamble
QualcommIncorporated
Retail Industry Leaders Association
Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association
Semiconductor Equipment and Materials International
SPI: The Plastics Industry Trade Association
Sudbury International
Sweeteners Users Association
Target Inc.
Tech America
Telecommunications Industry Association
The Entertainment Software Association
The National Chicken Council
Time Warner
Inc.
Toyota North America
TUMI
U.S. Apple Association
U.S. Chamberof Commerce
U.S. Council for International Business
U.S. GrainsCouncil
U.S. New Zealand Council
U.S. Wheat Associates
USA - ITA
United States Council for International Business
United Technologies Corporation
UPS
US ASEAN Business Council
Viacom
Visa
Wal-Mart Stores Inc.

Washington Council on International Trade
World Trade Center San Diego
Xerox
Zimme

-------------------------------------

bolding mine, and there may be some formatting errors - copy/paste from pdf is hell.

Auggie

(31,256 posts)
22. Too much money at work here. This tells me it's going to happen.
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 12:52 PM
Jan 2014

They'll lobby/influence/buy their way to approval.

BelgianMadCow

(5,379 posts)
42. I heard the Bankster union (called International Bank of Settlements) is pro
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 05:11 PM
Jan 2014

that's in the union group. Maybe the dudes called MIC also fall here. And in the environmental group I think we have Koch Nature Kare, the KNK. That's a huge one to have on board!

But that's just of the top of my head.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
17. Obama's stance reflects the Fatal Contradiction in too many centrist Democrats
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 12:45 PM
Jan 2014

They claim to be on the side of average people and the disenfranchised. And they talk a better game than the GOP. And in some ways their actions are better too.

But when it comes to the systemic problems that have created this mess, they are just as bad as Republicans.

They are willing to try to tweak the edges (if Republicans allow them to)

But when it comes to any fundamental changes that would upset the Oligarchs but help The People....They are on the side of the Oligarchs.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
27. Which requires the peole who either buy into the "free trade" horseshit or don't care, to...
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 01:08 PM
Jan 2014

educate themselves and wake up.

These deals are not about facilitating "trade."

They are about setting up a global architecture for the domination of civil society by the interests of Big Capital.

polynomial

(750 posts)
26. the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 01:07 PM
Jan 2014

There needs to be more debate about the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal. From my view in the analysis about what is really good in this trade stuff is lost in conversation and principle. Is this really a new thing to create metadata collection for America’s NSA secret illuminati group using the NSA metadata Gestapo meter the cell phone collection system

One huge reality sublime in talks describes what a political chameleon the trade agreement is by jumping past the Constitutional values. Plus a treaty when it is made is committed to those laws in the Constitution, especially the Patriotic Act. Uncle Sam needs you But, but, and say it again but Congress can modify or repeal treaties by subsequent legislative action, even if this amounts to a “violation of the treaty” under international law. So America goes loopy in media conversation and political retribution and retaliation and public confusion.

This whole behind the scenes action is a cover up by media and by the truthiness in those political people that are not forthcoming in honest governance, just profiteering swindling and fraud using the dumb down banking derivative game. This is a total incontinence giving way to general fraud woven into the military industrial complex that America has to support all treaties by military action to safe guard the treaty, or shall we say the illuminati one percenters profiteering.

This is a core principle that has been stricken out of conversation by media that strikes out the wisdom in leadership. Just like those dark lines media and government strike out in leaked information by whistle blowers yet try to make the public seem informed but black out the crime and real political perpetrators.

Another right wing composition by Deborah Tavares is presented. A message done very well, but loaded with technology fear mongering marketing, check it out. She has a website that reminds me of the Drudge report. A clip about an hour long has reference to mythology. What jumps out at me is the reference to the Russian Molock. Deborah Tavares should remember the mythology goes back to Plato and beyond it’s not just a Russian thing. This is the Romney thing blame the Russians, however she was correct to point out the profaned machine of CNN tied to the CIA that lies. Yikes the right wing exposing itself….is sweet.




 

cali

(114,904 posts)
30. Not good news about Wyden- he's about to take over the Senate Finance Committee
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 01:55 PM
Jan 2014

DeFazio is firmly against it.

fredamae

(4,458 posts)
32. Sadly-it seems to
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 02:01 PM
Jan 2014

become more obvious over the past few years that Wyden is amongst the Elite 1%'r Dems serving in DC--A typical Wall Street Dem who is, seemingly completely out of touch with Main Streeter's....everywhere.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
36. Wyden & DeFazio.
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 02:56 PM
Jan 2014

Aren't they from Oregon?

in the Pacific NorthWest?

One of the few states that would strike a BONANZA if the TPP passed? (Pacific Port of Entry)

fredamae

(4,458 posts)
38. Yes.
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 03:12 PM
Jan 2014

Apparently Corp Profits VS Environment, Rights, Protections, Resources etc threatened in the TPP - is regarded differently by these two.

I stand with DeFazio-once "Pandora's Box" is opened there is no going back. I don't believe the "illusion" that there is NO other reasonable alternative to create jobs, restore our economy and Protect our environment. They just speak of the TPP as if it is by Not mentioning even the Possibility of alternatives.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
31. Between the NSA surveillance and the TPP, Obama is working against the base of Democrats
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 01:57 PM
Jan 2014

that need to campaign enthusiastically this year if we are to keep or improve our hold in Congress.

Politically, this strategy makes no sense.

What is Obama doing to the Democratic Party?

Not good. Not smart,

Response to JDPriestly (Reply #31)

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»The Nation: Who Backs th...