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n2doc

(47,953 posts)
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 09:36 PM Mar 2012

The A***oles didn't fall far from the tree: Trumps sons pose with their dead animals

By MEGHAN KENEALLY
PUBLISHED: 17:54 EST,

Grizzly photos have surfaced of Donald Trump's millionaire sons smiling broadly next to the dead carcasses of wild animals that they shot while on a big game hunt in Africa.
Though the two men- Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump- deny any wrong doing and proudly argue that they are hunters, many animal rights advocates are taking jabs at the pair.
In one of the photos, 34-year-old Don holds the sawed off tail of an elephant and another the knife that likely cut it.




Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2114122/Donald-Eric-Trump-pictured-posing-trophy-carcasses-big-African-hunt.html

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The A***oles didn't fall far from the tree: Trumps sons pose with their dead animals (Original Post) n2doc Mar 2012 OP
Assholes. AtomicKitten Mar 2012 #1
+1 ellisonz Mar 2012 #57
Well of course EvolveOrConvolve Mar 2012 #2
Sickening pics. alittlelark Mar 2012 #3
agreed. my brother has stupid dead dear heads in his living room - something i never understood arely staircase Mar 2012 #20
This message was self-deleted by its author pipoman Mar 2012 #197
I've never understood the point of big game hunting. xmas74 Mar 2012 #4
Point Zanzoobar Mar 2012 #7
Well, in the Rocky Mountain west ... earthside Mar 2012 #11
Leopards are endangered and protected in many African countries SomethingFishy Mar 2012 #46
"Zimbabwe is where these assholes went." ellisonz Mar 2012 #58
Bingo. geardaddy Mar 2012 #109
omg, killing for the fun of it wendylaroux Mar 2012 #5
+1,000,000 Auggie Mar 2012 #15
Disgusting pigs. polly7 Mar 2012 #6
Pigs are not parasitical murdering scum. Trump brats are. aquart Mar 2012 #24
You're right, and my apologies to pigs. polly7 Mar 2012 #53
That's disgusting. How proud they must be...cowardly gunning a defenseless animal down. Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #8
Has he taken up photography? Control-Z Mar 2012 #9
Well, I haven't seen him in a looooong time, but I expect he still hunts. He's that kind. Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #38
Not sure why, but that really cracked me up. Control-Z Mar 2012 #195
My husband used to be a duck hunter and attended many camping trips with his friends. Auntie Bush Mar 2012 #182
Your husband sounds like a good guy. Control-Z Mar 2012 #194
That's what I always think when trophy hunters give their bullshit line about "sport" Withywindle Mar 2012 #59
Man, they look like assholes. napoleon_in_rags Mar 2012 #10
So do these 30-something clowns have jobs or do they just sponge off The Daddy-Donald? Gidney N Cloyd Mar 2012 #12
"Hunting for Legends" - Living for God. Yeecch. tabatha Mar 2012 #13
This is lovely nobodyspecial Mar 2012 #21
Oh God! That first photo made me audibly gasp. Ruby the Liberal Mar 2012 #14
I hate them! frogmarch Mar 2012 #16
You can't murder a non-human animal, except metaphorically. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #39
Look! Someone being pedantic on the internet! sudopod Mar 2012 #56
Murder frogmarch Mar 2012 #65
And why should we not use it metaphorically? LanternWaste Mar 2012 #74
From the context of the outraged posters on this thread, I don't think it *is* being used Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #82
I'm sure you infer it in such a way as to better validate your own outrage... LanternWaste Mar 2012 #96
I'm not outraged at anyone. Not the hunters nor the posters. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #99
Of course we rationalize our own emotional responses at a thing while minimizing the same in others. LanternWaste Mar 2012 #102
So who's rationalizing? I'm amused...I freely admit it. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #105
... SammyWinstonJack Mar 2012 #98
Your sig line is giving you away. geardaddy Mar 2012 #111
Really? What's it giving away? I'm rather curious. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #119
Shhh Don't Let Him Know What We Know! HangOnKids Mar 2012 #130
Nah, he is fooling everyone here. Ikonoklast Mar 2012 #179
oh! so sad! JitterbugPerfume Mar 2012 #17
Sick basturds. Aren't big cats endangered?! femmocrat Mar 2012 #18
Don't know for sure about others but the Cheetah is.. SomethingFishy Mar 2012 #28
That is a leopard. tabatha Mar 2012 #29
Thanks... SomethingFishy Mar 2012 #31
Maybe a bunch of emails with this link should be sent to them as a better way to spend their $ tabatha Mar 2012 #37
The conservation status of the leopard is "near threatened", which is actually Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #47
Disgusting. How nineteenth century of them. Cleita Mar 2012 #19
So they're "manly" because they can kill endangered species? ProfessionalLeftist Mar 2012 #22
THEY KILLED A LEOPARD????????????????????????????????????? aquart Mar 2012 #23
Why? They broke no laws. nt hack89 Mar 2012 #26
Leopards are protected in many countries in Africa, if this was within one of those countries... Humanist_Activist Mar 2012 #34
They were hunting in Zimbabwe, where leopard hunting is legal. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #43
Which doesn't make either of them any smaller of a douche. Occulus Mar 2012 #50
Shrug. There are a lot of things more worthy of getting upset about than the legal hunting Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #51
Which is why you're all over this thread, huh Mr. McDollar? lol nt sudopod Mar 2012 #60
Post removed Post removed Mar 2012 #68
*I'm* not the one who's upset, am I? Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #85
there's a word for posting about things that you don't care about sudopod Mar 2012 #139
I disagree with most of the posts on this thread. *That* is what makes it interesting to me. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #149
That's cause you find it fun... surfdog Mar 2012 #162
Ah, but I *don't* find it fun. Other people do, to which I'm indifferent. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #165
How do your ears not prick up when you hear the word Zimbabwe? ellisonz Mar 2012 #63
Well done, ellisonz, thanks for this well-researched reply... Surya Gayatri Mar 2012 #67
I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of posters on this thread who are Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #87
You should try and show some understanding... ellisonz Mar 2012 #127
Remember the thread about the big game commissioner who hunted a mountain lion in Idaho? Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #148
Yes. ellisonz Mar 2012 #151
You just asked me to violate the rules of this forum. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #156
Then shit or get off the pot. ellisonz Mar 2012 #172
My, my...someone's cranky this morning! Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #173
I imagine that as both empathy and sympathy are without a practical limit LanternWaste Mar 2012 #75
Of course empathy and sympathy have a practical limit. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #84
what then is the precise and objective upper limit? LanternWaste Mar 2012 #100
Does your empathy and sympathy for my visceral response have an upper limit? Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #104
When they get to the pearly gates I hope God says: Booster Mar 2012 #25
I think She will. Withywindle Mar 2012 #61
As disgusting as their father, GROSS! Dont call me Shirley Mar 2012 #27
Oink Oink... WillyT Mar 2012 #30
Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh. This pisses me off!! Glimmer of Hope Mar 2012 #32
Killing a leopard for no reason at all. MrSlayer Mar 2012 #33
OMG, he reproduced? Canuckistanian Mar 2012 #35
a daughter too... Phentex Mar 2012 #170
Yea. They're real men! Lint Head Mar 2012 #36
Idiots graywarrior Mar 2012 #40
They shot a freaking ELEPHANT & TIGER?? FOR FUN??? Doremus Mar 2012 #41
I'm curious...how exactly are these animals going to get their "revenge"? Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #44
Johnny Rich, I have an idea...why don't you take your Surya Gayatri Mar 2012 #66
I'm not "pro-kill" in the sense that I'm not advocating that people run out and kill leopards. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #81
Except that killing large game has an impact on biodiversity and the morningfog Mar 2012 #83
Which is why hunting *endangered* species should be illegal. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #94
Hunting is BIG Business in Africa... MicaelS Mar 2012 #103
+1000 Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #107
"Animals, which ARE a renewable resource." ellisonz Mar 2012 #125
This activity is not hunting SOS Mar 2012 #106
It's certainly not particularly challenging, I'll give you that. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #108
Yes they can...and we can call them dickheads for it. CJCRANE Mar 2012 #128
They could indeed do all the things you listed. Perhaps they already have. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #150
Really? HangOnKids Mar 2012 #153
Oh no! I'm being ignored after someone went to the trouble of telling me I'm be ignored! Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #157
That makes me want to kick the shit out of that small genitaled rich boy Generic Other Mar 2012 #42
the picture is gross. iemitsu Mar 2012 #45
I think of pictures I would not like taken of myself Generic Other Mar 2012 #147
Big Bad Hunters on paid safari SomethingFishy Mar 2012 #48
pretty sure it doesn't work that way.... belcffub Mar 2012 #71
This message was self-deleted by its author belcffub Mar 2012 #77
The same amount of money spent to hunt the animals could have been spent for ecotourism csziggy Mar 2012 #79
but it wouldn't belcffub Mar 2012 #118
^this geardaddy Mar 2012 #134
Not shocked. laundry_queen Mar 2012 #49
Wow, showing off for killing an animal from 200 yards away! N-t Logical Mar 2012 #52
Although it would still be needless... Lizzie Poppet Mar 2012 #89
I agree. Or a knife! Barehanded would be 100% fair. Logical Mar 2012 #141
Those can't be Trump's sons. They have normal hair. proud2BlibKansan Mar 2012 #54
Disgusting fucking fuckwits. lonestarnot Mar 2012 #55
All hail the Great White Hunters! nt MrScorpio Mar 2012 #62
ZANU-PF supporting scum... ellisonz Mar 2012 #64
I'll dedicate a song to the assholes Tabasco_Dave Mar 2012 #69
The moronic, spoiled idiots are getting serious flak for this. Good. Darth_Kitten Mar 2012 #70
so repugnant Voice for Peace Mar 2012 #72
Horrible... trumad Mar 2012 #73
horrible Liberal_in_LA Mar 2012 #132
last night.... belcffub Mar 2012 #181
disgusting mother fuckers certainot Mar 2012 #76
So would all the people above also feel the same belcffub Mar 2012 #78
Most of them would probably condescendingly say that it's different when local tribes Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #90
So, you're saying there's not a difference between subsitence hunting joeybee12 Mar 2012 #114
There's certainly a difference in motivation. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #116
are these canned hunts belcffub Mar 2012 #117
so classy stuntcat Mar 2012 #80
Trophy hunting is a vile practice. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2012 #86
As per the story, the meat was donated to the locals. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #93
uhhh, yeah.... Leopard meat is not particularly edible. alittlelark Mar 2012 #120
I've read that locals will eat leopard, lion, etc., when the meat is donated. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #121
What absolute scum.... joeybee12 Mar 2012 #88
Leopards aren't "very endangered". Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #92
Um.... joeybee12 Mar 2012 #110
Given that information, it sounds as if limited hunting of the species is fine. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #113
"Limited hunting", i.e., "limited" to the ultra-wealthy who have absolute scads bullwinkle428 Mar 2012 #124
um... so belcffub Mar 2012 #143
It's an expensive hobby. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #145
weird fascisthunter Mar 2012 #160
Get help...for what, exactly? Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #163
Disgusting Marrah_G Mar 2012 #91
Burn in Hell, you despicable a$$hole$! SammyWinstonJack Mar 2012 #95
Words fail. The Backlash Cometh Mar 2012 #97
I can't say what I want to about these ignoramuses siligut Mar 2012 #101
Their dad has been wearing a dead animal on his head for years. n/t Ganja Ninja Mar 2012 #112
Just goes to show you cannot Rex Mar 2012 #115
Makes you wish the leopard and buffalo were able to fire off a few rounds. marmar Mar 2012 #122
like anyone would cite "the circle of life" if there was even the remotest chance that they'd be on MisterP Mar 2012 #138
Post removed Post removed Mar 2012 #123
Paradoxically, this may be good for the animals JustABozoOnThisBus Mar 2012 #126
what I was trying to see in my posts above... belcffub Mar 2012 #129
Trump Sons look a lot like Romney Sons JI7 Mar 2012 #131
Daddy Trump: I am not a believer in hunting and I'm surprised they like it." Liberal_in_LA Mar 2012 #133
Typical Trump - throwing his kids under the bus so his precious image won't be tainted bullwinkle428 Mar 2012 #193
Kinda wish Lazarus Kitty would come back to life and administer some instant karma Blue Owl Mar 2012 #135
As an animal lover and animal rights advocate, RebelOne Mar 2012 #136
At least a buffalo can be eaten hifiguy Mar 2012 #137
Wimps! hamsterjill Mar 2012 #140
I think you meant "grisly" because I don't see any bears. n/t lumberjack_jeff Mar 2012 #142
ughh senseandsensibility Mar 2012 #144
Voice your thoughts on The Apprentice message board. -PITBOSS- Mar 2012 #146
DISGUSTING Raine Mar 2012 #152
The scream of the self-righteous infadel Mar 2012 #154
great post belcffub Mar 2012 #158
boohoohoo... they against big game hunting for the ultra rich losers fascisthunter Mar 2012 #161
What about big game tours, photography tours vs killing animal tours? They would bring in a lot of uppityperson Mar 2012 #183
disgusting but hardly new. Teddy Roosevelt did it too when he went to Africa. WI_DEM Mar 2012 #155
How Manly! fascisthunter Mar 2012 #159
The more I hear and learn about the Trumps. MichaelMcGuire Mar 2012 #164
What a beautiful leopard and what a shame to die like that LynneSin Mar 2012 #166
here's my problem with this line of logic belcffub Mar 2012 #167
that leopard can be hunted many times over - for photography- those sacks of shit need shaming certainot Mar 2012 #168
is there a shortage of leopards for photography belcffub Mar 2012 #169
theere is a shortage for leopards FOR EVERYTHING certainot Mar 2012 #171
leopard shortages infadel Mar 2012 #174
those guys aren't there to help starving africans but i see what you're saying, to some degree. certainot Mar 2012 #180
The Natives are getting paid to track them infadel Mar 2012 #185
their wound rate would be higher with arrows etc. and it would actually take balls as opposed to certainot Mar 2012 #186
there are hunters who go spear hunting over there belcffub Mar 2012 #187
i was thinking more of a leopard- this guy is still an asshole, with a young buffalo wondering what certainot Mar 2012 #196
This is an actual industry for them belcffub Mar 2012 #188
Are photographers' fees being used for conservation areas? JustABozoOnThisBus Mar 2012 #176
i'd rather see these 'tough' guys have to do these hunts with bows and arrows and spears certainot Mar 2012 #178
You mean "The Shit Doesn't Fall Too Far from the Ass".... BlueDemKev Mar 2012 #175
Man, the rich sure do have some fucked up hobbies. The Midway Rebel Mar 2012 #177
That explains a lot KamaAina Mar 2012 #184
Post removed Post removed Mar 2012 #189
Way, way over the limit. MineralMan Mar 2012 #190
Do you want to see the real evil hurting wildlife? infadel Mar 2012 #191
How long have you been a vedge? naughty nina Mar 2012 #192

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
20. agreed. my brother has stupid dead dear heads in his living room - something i never understood
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 10:11 PM
Mar 2012

but his freezer is full of the meat, so i have no problem with it. i have been dear hunting, but never saw the attraction to it. it mainly consist of getting up before the dawn and sitting in a cold wooden box - where you can't talk. i did enjoy the couple of quail hunts i have been on, and the quail was delicious. watching the dogs find the birds was amazing.

why anyone would want to shoot that beautiful cat is beyond me.

Response to arely staircase (Reply #20)

xmas74

(29,673 posts)
4. I've never understood the point of big game hunting.
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 09:43 PM
Mar 2012

Hunting for food-sure, I understand that. I live in a rural area where deer are hunted, processed, and used for food for families. I know families who tan the hides, boil the bones-use nearly every part. Though I don't do it I can understand and respect someone who is trying to feed their families and doesn't waste what they've hunted/harvested.

Big game is just a waste.

earthside

(6,960 posts)
11. Well, in the Rocky Mountain west ...
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 09:58 PM
Mar 2012

... big game, i.e., elk, deer, pronghorn, are hunted as part of wildlife management.

I have no problem with that ... millions of human beings living with their pets and driving their cars and eating all kinds of fruits and vegetables and meats that must be farmed distorts the natural process for wildlife like "big game."

So, sports hunting as an organized, scientifically managed process benefits and encourages healthy wildlife populations.

Now, in Africa, there may be some of the same situations ... but I really doubt that leopards fit in that category.

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
46. Leopards are endangered and protected in many African countries
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 11:49 PM
Mar 2012

You have to go out of your way to find a place where it's legal. Zimbabwe is where these assholes went.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
53. You're right, and my apologies to pigs.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 12:33 AM
Mar 2012

They're actually pretty smart animals too, unlike these nasty Trump spawn.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
8. That's disgusting. How proud they must be...cowardly gunning a defenseless animal down.
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 09:47 PM
Mar 2012

Ironically, they think this shows their masculinity, when it's just the opposite.

I told my ex, who was a hunter, that if he REALLY wanted to show how great he is at tracking and "catching" wild animals, he'd try to photograph them. That's much harder to do than shoot one.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
38. Well, I haven't seen him in a looooong time, but I expect he still hunts. He's that kind.
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 11:07 PM
Mar 2012

But at least he wasn't good at it. He wasn't good at most things.

Control-Z

(15,682 posts)
195. Not sure why, but that really cracked me up.
Thu Mar 15, 2012, 08:13 PM
Mar 2012

"But at least he wasn't good at it. He wasn't good at most things. "

Auntie Bush

(17,528 posts)
182. My husband used to be a duck hunter and attended many camping trips with his friends.
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 04:35 PM
Mar 2012

He finally realized hunting and killing duck was not a decent thing to do, but he missed the commodore of those trips...so he went along and recorded the trip and activities with his camera. He said that was much more rewarding than shooting and killing ducks...or staying home. I was really proud of him.

I don't understand how men can get joy out of killing those majestic animals. The fight isn't fair when you have a gun! You become a killer and a disgusting bully...which is what the Trump brothers are.

Control-Z

(15,682 posts)
194. Your husband sounds like a good guy.
Thu Mar 15, 2012, 08:06 PM
Mar 2012

You must feel lucky to have him. My future ex is such a disappointment. lol. There is no doubt in my mind that he'd still be hunting had he ever done any in the first place. He gets joy out of using and destroying people, though. He'd probably stuff 'em and mount 'em if he could.

Withywindle

(9,988 posts)
59. That's what I always think when trophy hunters give their bullshit line about "sport"
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 12:50 AM
Mar 2012

The pleasure of being out in nature, the challenge of tracking an animal, the excitement of being near one and pursuing it and getting it in your sights...

Okay, I can understand that. Then why can't you do all of that with a CAMERA? Why can't you create wildlife photography that others can enjoy, instead of destroying something precious? The reason is because it's really all about the killing. That's where their thrill really comes from. And that's also why they can't get it from hunting common animals like American deer, and eating the meat or donating it - because they want to destroy something ~exotic~ and rare.

And that is a sign of a profoundly, probably-irredeemably fucked-up mind.

napoleon_in_rags

(3,991 posts)
10. Man, they look like assholes.
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 09:54 PM
Mar 2012

I mean there was that bold 19th century explorer, who explored the jungles teaming with tigers, shooting the beasts to stay alive. And then 130 years later, some assholes wanted to pretend they were like him, so they went to some reserve where they could pay a vast sum of money to shoot basically zoo animals and hold them up.

Look, folks its gone. The great unexplored jungles are no more. You don't look like that bold explorer, he was defined by courage and risk, not by having enough money to shoot exotic game. I love me some elk jerky, but if you're killing animals you don't intend to eat or that didn't attack you, you're doing it to prove something to the world, and the world isn't impressed.

nobodyspecial

(2,286 posts)
21. This is lovely
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 10:19 PM
Mar 2012

"You are also virtually guaranteed, that you can shoot something every day of your safari."

Here's a bunch of photos. Brings tears to my eyes.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/realafricasafari/sets/72157623456840582/show/

frogmarch

(12,153 posts)
16. I hate them!
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 10:04 PM
Mar 2012

And look at that cocky bastard sitting on the buffalo he murdered. He has his rifles propped against the animal's horns and his hat plopped on one of them. BASTARD! It's bad enough you killed this amazing animal, but you had to mock it too. I curse you, you bastard, and your murdering brother too. Assholes!

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
39. You can't murder a non-human animal, except metaphorically.
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 11:35 PM
Mar 2012

Be as outraged as you like, but let's not "murder" the English language while we're at it...

frogmarch

(12,153 posts)
65. Murder
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 02:36 AM
Mar 2012
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/murder

1. To kill (another human) unlawfully.
2. To kill brutally or inhumanly.
3. To put an end to; destroy: murdered their chances.
4. To spoil by ineptness; mutilate: a speech that murdered the English language.
5. Slang To defeat decisively; trounce.

My grammar has always been okay, but thanks anyhow.




 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
82. From the context of the outraged posters on this thread, I don't think it *is* being used
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:38 AM
Mar 2012

metaphorically. It's quite apparent that they consider it murder...as such.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
96. I'm sure you infer it in such a way as to better validate your own outrage...
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:16 AM
Mar 2012

I'm sure you infer it in such a way as to better validate your own outrage against those you perceive to be, well... outraged.

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
99. I'm not outraged at anyone. Not the hunters nor the posters.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:21 AM
Mar 2012

I'm indifferent towards the hunters, and I'm amused by many of the posters.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
102. Of course we rationalize our own emotional responses at a thing while minimizing the same in others.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:26 AM
Mar 2012

Of course we rationalize our own emotional responses at a thing while minimizing the same in others.

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
105. So who's rationalizing? I'm amused...I freely admit it.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:36 AM
Mar 2012
Of course we rationalize our own emotional responses at a thing while minimizing the same in others.

I'm not minimizing the same in others, I'm pointing it out...and chuckling as I do so!

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
28. Don't know for sure about others but the Cheetah is..
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 10:43 PM
Mar 2012

on the endangered species list.


http://curiosity.discovery.com/question/why-are-cheetahs-endangered

shit is that a Leopard or a Cheetah? Leopards are a protected species...


SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
31. Thanks...
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 10:49 PM
Mar 2012

that actually makes it worse since not only are the endangered but protected including in many African countries..

Assholes either way..

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
47. The conservation status of the leopard is "near threatened", which is actually
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 11:52 PM
Mar 2012

the second best classification. Limited hunting doesn't threaten the species as a whole.

Granted, it did threaten this particular member of the species...

 

Humanist_Activist

(7,670 posts)
34. Leopards are protected in many countries in Africa, if this was within one of those countries...
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 10:58 PM
Mar 2012

then they were poaching, which is highly illegal.

In addition, if they attempted to import any parts of the leopards into the United States, and the leopard was taken in Northern or Central Africa, then the permit would be denied.

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
51. Shrug. There are a lot of things more worthy of getting upset about than the legal hunting
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 12:20 AM
Mar 2012

of an animal.

Response to sudopod (Reply #60)

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
85. *I'm* not the one who's upset, am I?
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:45 AM
Mar 2012

I will admit to being amused by the outrage on this thread...hence my posting.

sudopod

(5,019 posts)
139. there's a word for posting about things that you don't care about
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 05:01 PM
Mar 2012

in order to get a rise out of people.

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
149. I disagree with most of the posts on this thread. *That* is what makes it interesting to me.
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 01:19 AM
Mar 2012

What's boring is a thread where all you can say is "Ditto!"...yes?

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
165. Ah, but I *don't* find it fun. Other people do, to which I'm indifferent.
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 11:10 AM
Mar 2012

I do find it fun to eat animals, of course. I'm perfectly happy to pay someone else to kill an animal for me so I can do just that.

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
63. How do your ears not prick up when you hear the word Zimbabwe?
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 02:22 AM
Mar 2012

...There are more worthy things to get upset about and this is part and parcel of things worthy of getting upset about, as it is pretty likely these chaps were being profited off of by the lackeys of brutal dictator. I presume you've heard of Mr. Mugabe and ZANU-PF?

Inside the hidden links between American big-game hunters and Zimbabwe’s Mugabe dictatorship.
By Joshua Hammer
Newsweek
Updated: 5:58 p.m. ET Jan. 13, 2006

Jan. 13, 2006 - Jocelyn Chiwenga is not a woman to be taken lightly. The wife of Gen. Constantine Chiwenga, commander-in-chief of Zimbabwe’s army, Mrs. Chiwenga has earned a reputation in her own right as a vicious enforcer for President Robert Mugabe and his ruling Zimbabwe African National Union-Popular Front (ZANU-PF). In April 2002 she reportedly showed up at a farm outside Harare, the capital, with an armed gang and ordered the farm’s white owner to turn over his property to her or be killed, according to documents filed in a Zimbabwean court. One year later, Chiwenga accosted Gugulethu Moyo, an attorney for a pro-opposition newspaper, and beat her so severely that she had to seek medical attention. “Your paper wants to encourage anarchy in this country,” Chiwenga reportedly shouted as she punched and slapped the 28-year-old lawyer on a Harare street. “Chiwenga is as close to the center of power as you get,” says David Coltart, a parliamentarian and leader of the Movement for Democratic Change, the country’s main opposition party.

She also knows how to use her power. About three years ago, Chiwenga won an auction for a coveted lease on a 220-square-mile tract of bush, owned by Zimbabwe’s Parks and Wildlife Authority, located just outside Hwange National Park in southwest Zimbabwe. Abounding in the Big Five—lion, elephant, Cape buffalo, leopard, and black rhino—Chiwenga’s property has since become a choice destination for professional hunters, particularly well-heeled Americans.

Now, Chiwenga’s business ambitions—as well as her political clout—have brought her to the attention of the U.S. government. Last November, the Treasury Department added Chiwenga, 50, to a list of 128 Mugabe relatives and cronies who are “undermining democratic processes or institutions in Zimbabwe.” The Treasury Department has blocked the assets of those on the list and established penalties of up to $250,000 and 10 years’ imprisonment for anyone who does business with them. And that executive order has put dozens, if not hundreds, of Americans who hunt on her land in legal jeopardy.

Chiwenga’s sanctioning by the U.S. government has drawn new attention to the unsavory, and usually hidden, links between American sportsmen and the Mugabe dictatorship. During the past six years, Zimbabwe’s economy has been in free fall, with the country’s gross domestic product dropping by half and agricultural production sinking by more than 80 percent. But hunting has remained one of the country’s few thriving industries, bringing in as much as $30 million annually, according to conservationists and professional hunters in Zimbabwe. Much of that cash has gone into the coffers of ZANU-PF insiders, who have gained control of government-owned safari land at below market prices, reportedly through rigged auctions in many cases. One of Chiwenga’s neighbors in the Victoria Falls area is Webster Shamu, Mugabe’s Minister of Policy Implementation, and a key architect of Operation Murambatsvina—“Clean out the Rubbish”—the brutal slum clearance program that has left some 700,000 poor black Zimbabweans homeless. (Shamu is among the original 77 insiders who had their assets frozen and were barred from entering the United States by the Treasury Department in 2003). Another big player is Jacob Mudenda, the former governor of Matabeleland North. All of them do a brisk business catering to professional American hunters, who make up about half of the clientele, according to industry insiders.

More: http://www.zimbabwesituation.com/jan15_2006.html


And in case you know nothing of Zimbabwe, the abstract of the 2011 Amnesty International Annual Report on human rights in Zimbabwe:

Police continued to arbitrarily arrest and detain human rights defenders and journalists undertaking legitimate human rights work. There was some loosening of restrictions on the media and Parliament debated a bill to reform the repressive Public Order and Security Act (POSA). Lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people faced persecution. The victims of the 2005 forced evictions continued to live in deplorable conditions with some being targeted for eviction or facing the threat of eviction.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/zimbabwe/report-2011


 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
67. Well done, ellisonz, thanks for this well-researched reply...
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 05:02 AM
Mar 2012

Unfortunately, I fear that Johnny Rich will remain inpervious to your well-reasoned response. His bias is pretty obvious.
SG

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
87. I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of posters on this thread who are
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:50 AM
Mar 2012

wearing their outrage on their sleeve and damning this hunter to Hell in profanity-laced rants never even considered where in Africa this hunt took place. It's the simple act of killing these animals that's infuriating them.

Your point about these hunts supporting Mugabe and ZANU-PF is a legitimate one, however.

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
127. You should try and show some understanding...
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 02:43 PM
Mar 2012

...for why people care about the environment. The bottom line is these guys went to a conflict region to exploit the natural resources and in doing so likely supported individuals who are the target of U.S. sanctions (about 120 Mugabe regime figures). I don't think most of these posters would be upset if these guys went deer hunting in Wisconsin, but that's not what they did; they used their money to go to Africa and slaughter beautiful creatures. I wonder why these dickheads went to Zimbabwe...but it seems that in general, very few permits are issued in South Africa for hunting leopards so my guess is that they could not obtain a permit in SA, which does have pretty serious hunting regulations, even if they are often flouted. These guys thumbed their nose at conservation.

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
148. Remember the thread about the big game commissioner who hunted a mountain lion in Idaho?
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 01:17 AM
Mar 2012
I don't think most of these posters would be upset if these guys went deer hunting in Wisconsin

He posted a picture very much like the one in this thread, and poster after poster expressed feelings virtually identical to those in this thread. I think it's safe to say that the African (Zimbabwean, specifically) setting of this hunt is irrelevant to most on this thread.

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
151. Yes.
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 01:32 AM
Mar 2012

I would note that many are annoyed with him not just because he hunted but because he went out of state to kill an animal that he is prohibited from killing in his state. What is your problem with those who find the killing of animals to be despicable? Do you not realize that there are many vegetarians and vegans at DU? Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1131 go tell the Vegetarian, Vegan and Animal Rights group that their "feelings" are wrong.

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
156. You just asked me to violate the rules of this forum.
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 09:52 AM
Mar 2012
go tell the Vegetarian, Vegan and Animal Rights group that their "feelings" are wrong.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1131

"A safe haven for anyone interested in vegetarianism, veganism, and animal rights, to discuss health and animal related issues, organize, exchange recipes, support each other, and network."

Do you not realize that there are many vegetarians and vegans at DU?

Sure I do. So what? There are lots of omnivores here as well, I would dare say they outnumber the vegetarians and vegans.

I would note that many are annoyed with him not just because he hunted but because he went out of state to kill an animal that he is prohibited from killing in his state.

I would note that most were simply mad at him because he killed a mountain lion and posted a picture of it on the internet. The "out of state" thing was simply a pretext for saying that he should be fired (not going to happen, BTW...http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002416351)

What is your problem with those who find the killing of animals to be despicable?

I don't have the slightest "problem" with them. I do disagree with them, which means I find it an interesting topic to discuss.

Don't you find it interesting?

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
172. Then shit or get off the pot.
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 01:39 PM
Mar 2012
I don't have the slightest "problem" with them. I do disagree with them, which means I find it an interesting topic to discuss.
When you habitually disagree and mock it does appear as if you have a problem with them. I'm glad to see you're expanding your DU career beyond the Gungeon, but you need to understand that many people live very different lives from you and are just as happy.
 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
173. My, my...someone's cranky this morning!
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 02:16 PM
Mar 2012
When you habitually disagree and mock it does appear as if you have a problem with them.

You may interpret it that way if you wish. You'd be wrong, mind you...

but you need to understand that many people live very different lives from you and are just as happy.

I don't recall ever indicating I thought otherwise...

Anyhoo, I have to catch a flight. Later!
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
75. I imagine that as both empathy and sympathy are without a practical limit
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 09:12 AM
Mar 2012

I imagine that as both empathy and sympathy are without a practical limit, there is no precise reason to preclude our sympathies from any one thing we feel for...

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
84. Of course empathy and sympathy have a practical limit.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:43 AM
Mar 2012

Take the amount of empathy and sympathy you feel for the animals killed in this story. Now try increase that empathy and sympathy by 1000%.

Feeling really sorry for them now? Good. Now increase that level by 1000%. Then do it again. Then...

You can only get so outraged about any given issue for a finite amount of time. There obviously is a limit.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
100. what then is the precise and objective upper limit?
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:22 AM
Mar 2012

If indeed there is a practical limit, what then is the precise and objective upper limit? On what is that limit based? You appear to confuse theoretical and practical for the purposes of your own argument...

In addition, you appear to be consciously and erroneously conflating outrage with simple concern to better validate your own, self-admitted, lack of care for this topic. However, I imagine you will rationalize your own visceral response while minimizing the same in others. It's human nature-- I have empathy and sympathy for it...

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
104. Does your empathy and sympathy for my visceral response have an upper limit?
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:33 AM
Mar 2012


Look, terms like "sympathy" and "empathy" are a bit, well...fuzzy. While there are obviously cases where someone has more sympathy that than someone else, there's no way to quantify it as such. To put it another way:

If it can't be expressed in figures, it is not science; it is opinion.
---Robert A. Heinlein, "Time Enough For Love" (1973)


In addition, you appear to be consciously and erroneously conflating outrage with simple concern

I'll grant that there's a distinct difference between the two, but the vast majority of posts on this thread are the former rather than the latter.

I imagine you will rationalize your own visceral response

On the contrary, my responses have been anything but visceral...unlike the outraged "Damn them to Hell!" responses so prevalent on this thread.

Booster

(10,021 posts)
25. When they get to the pearly gates I hope God says:
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 10:29 PM
Mar 2012

"So. Did you take care of my beautiful animals like I told you to do? The Leopard is one of my very favorite creations".

Withywindle

(9,988 posts)
61. I think She will.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 12:55 AM
Mar 2012

I think that if anyone is going to get into heaven, the testimony of animals should be taken into consideration.

Canuckistanian

(42,290 posts)
35. OMG, he reproduced?
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 11:04 PM
Mar 2012

And now his spawn are doing catered killings of endangered species?

Now there's a shocker, for sure.

Doremus

(7,261 posts)
41. They shot a freaking ELEPHANT & TIGER?? FOR FUN???
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 11:40 PM
Mar 2012

By god, one day all the hunted and tortured and abused animals will have their retribution.

I am so angry I can't see straight.

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
44. I'm curious...how exactly are these animals going to get their "revenge"?
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 11:44 PM
Mar 2012

Enquiring minds want to know!

 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
66. Johnny Rich, I have an idea...why don't you take your
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 04:55 AM
Mar 2012

pro-gun, pro-kill point of view to some other forum.

You might meet some kindred spirits more amenable and sympathetic to your apparent blood-lust.

SG

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
81. I'm not "pro-kill" in the sense that I'm not advocating that people run out and kill leopards.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:35 AM
Mar 2012

I'll grant that I'm largely indifferent to it, certainly. If you don't like hunting...don't hunt! It's your choice.

Isn't being pro-choice a good thing?

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
83. Except that killing large game has an impact on biodiversity and the
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:38 AM
Mar 2012

health of the environment, locally and globally. You trying to draw some parallel between killing large game and, I am assuming, abortion is not a strong argument.

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
94. Which is why hunting *endangered* species should be illegal.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:14 AM
Mar 2012

They're a renewable resource. If their populations are sufficient, have at it.

You trying to draw some parallel between killing large game and, I am assuming, abortion is not a strong argument.

Not abortion as such. I try to be pro-choice on just about everything (to the extent that it doesn't interfere with others).

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
103. Hunting is BIG Business in Africa...
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:32 AM
Mar 2012

It provides hard currency to locals. It brings in hard currency through license fees and taxes.

Protein is valuable in Africa, the meat of these big game animals is not wasted. It is eaten by humans right there in the area where the animal is killed.

What resources does Africa have?

(1) Diamonds and minerals, neither renewable, and they damage the landscape through mining.

(2) Animals, which ARE a renewable resource. The countries that have big game, are going to either make money by either letting them be hunted, or by bringing eco-tourists to see the animals. In either case it is wealthy tourists who are paying to hunt or see the animals. Poor people can't afford to go to Africa and see the animals.

Or else these countries stand by and let the animals be slaughtered by poachers, and left to rot in field, and the meat and hides go to waste.

One way or another some African is going to make money off the animals. It's only a question of who and how.

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
125. "Animals, which ARE a renewable resource."
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 02:28 PM
Mar 2012

Animals are not a renewable resource when they are over-hunted out of a finite population - many species have already entered terminal declines. I dare maintain that arguing that the hunters should kill them because if not the poachers will get them is a bullshit answer. Poaching is big business and is wrong - legal hunting does not stop poaching. In this case, these assholes went to what is essentially a conflict country were they could kill animals they could not elsewhere.

The bushmeat trade in Africa is not sustainable: http://www.worldwildlife.org/bsp/publications/africa/127/congo_23.html

Africa has other renewable income options such as farming, but in many places with a lack of investment and price protections agriculture has been undermined.

One way or another some African is going to make money off the animals. It's only a question of who and how.


That is a shitty excuse for supporting the Mugabe regime...

SOS

(7,048 posts)
106. This activity is not hunting
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:37 AM
Mar 2012

Rich people go to some corrupt country and pay tens of thousands of dollars to a "safari" company.
They are driven to an area where they can blast an unusual animal from the safety of their jeep.
The whole thing is a fraud and not remotely related to actual hunting.
The rich phonies then pose for pictures to create the illusion that they are Ernest Hemingway rather than
a couple of dickheads from Manhattan.

Legitimate hunting to supplement one's food stocks is one thing.
But these African "safaris" are not hunting.
They are just ways for rich killers to shoot animals without risk, skill or utility.

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
108. It's certainly not particularly challenging, I'll give you that.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:49 AM
Mar 2012

That aside, though...it's their money. They can spend it how they like.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
128. Yes they can...and we can call them dickheads for it.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 02:51 PM
Mar 2012

I don't see the attraction of holding up a dead leopard.

If they want to help the local tribespeople they could buy them some cattle or build a hospital.

If they want to do something exciting they could go on hot-air ballooning safaris or hang-gliding or microlighting safaris or some other extreme sport.

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
150. They could indeed do all the things you listed. Perhaps they already have.
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 01:20 AM
Mar 2012

But this is what they've recently chosen to do...which earns them a big, "so what"?

Generic Other

(28,979 posts)
42. That makes me want to kick the shit out of that small genitaled rich boy
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 11:40 PM
Mar 2012

I am speechless at his expression of pride.

Generic Other

(28,979 posts)
147. I think of pictures I would not like taken of myself
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:55 PM
Mar 2012

The kind you shouldn't post to your Facebook because your boss will see them and your life will be ruined. The kind you can't get off the internet. That you will see the rest of your life if you google your name. The sort of picture that will display your youthful arrogance and lack of judgment the rest of your life. A picture that will come back to haunt you, that will mark your character until the day you die. What a beautiful animal you killed. Too bad it didn't get you first.

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
48. Big Bad Hunters on paid safari
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 12:05 AM
Mar 2012

claim they "Hunt and Eat" big game. Oh and they gave some meat to the local villagers.

What a crock of fucking shit. Big game hunter my ass. A local probably drugged the fucking thing and dropped it on the ground in front of you so you could "bag it". Where'd you go afterwords? Manicure and hair frosting? You make me fucking sick. Pathetic, sad little creatures, displaying your manhood by paying to go on safari where you are "guaranteed a kill on their 12,000 acre private reserve" and then showing it off on the internet and pretending like it was you or the leopard.
All the fucking money in the world, and this is what you find amusing? You could afford to do anything and this is what you came up with?
Fucking assholes.

belcffub

(595 posts)
71. pretty sure it doesn't work that way....
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 08:12 AM
Mar 2012

My uncle did a couple of Africa big game hunts back in the 90's...

they went three times to get a leopard... the local tribe that he used for guides were paid about $5k each trip... all of the meat was eaten by the tribe... the lodging conditions were third world...

the cape buffalo required 4 shots to drop... when it finally did it was about 20 feet from them...

the permitting system cost around $20k per trip for the different animals they took...

so in three trips he transferred $75k + incidentals (lodging, travel, shopping, etc) to the country and it's people.

I am not into the Big Game thing but do hunt deer. I do have a gun case made out of the Cape Buffalo hide. I do doubt that I will in my life have as large an economic impact as my uncle did on the country, tribe or people.

He is obviously pretty wealthy. Through his daughter he's the prime finical backer of an organization she runs that combats child sex slave industry in southeast asia (which is where she lives). He's pretty conservative... His daughter as liberal as they come...

EDITED :: before anyone asks I do not remember which country he went to... it was back in the early to mid 90's - Tanzania rings a bell... but I could be wrong...

Response to belcffub (Reply #71)

csziggy

(34,131 posts)
79. The same amount of money spent to hunt the animals could have been spent for ecotourism
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:18 AM
Mar 2012

"Hunting" the same animals with a camera, watching them over a period of time, learning about them.

I'm not talking about your uncle, my comment is more for the Trump sons, though even as late as the 1990s it was apparent that big game hunting was not a good way to spend money in African countries even where it was legal.

I'm glad your cousin is more liberal and doing more good with her father's money than he seems to have done.

belcffub

(595 posts)
118. but it wouldn't
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 12:27 PM
Mar 2012
"Hunting" the same animals with a camera, watching them over a period of time, learning about them.


at least not by the people looking to go hunting. I do not know for a fact but I would bet that the hunters pay far more in permitting, and trips then people going on camera safari. Like I said my uncle went almost 15 years ago now and each of the three trips costs around $25k. Most of that was in permit costs that went to the government. I do not know what it costs today.

I have another chinese friend who organized Ram hunts all over the world (mostly to china but also to other countries) the permit costs some countries charge for a ram is over $25k each with no guarantee. Very few permits for these very expensive ones are given out but he's said several of his hunts (he did not go on the hunts just organized them) did not result in the hunter taking an animal. Usually if this happened they would offer the hunter a free trip back but the hunter still needed to get the permits.

Now don't get me wrong. All hunting needs to be done with very close monitoring of heard sizes. Tying a financial incentive, the permit money from the hunts, will hopefully ensure these countries are doing proper management of this resources. If they are not then that should be where the outrage lies.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
49. Not shocked.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 12:10 AM
Mar 2012

The Donald always struck me as the type to do this kind of stuff and it's no surprise his kids are as arrogant and cocky as he is, and as nearsighted.

There's a guy at my mom's work that does this shit every year. He brings his little kids (OMG). And he's exactly the type of person you'd think would do that. Grade-A asshole, liar, POS. I grew up a few grades below him and knew him well. Him AND his brother are the SAME. Manipulative, abusive, liars. One company Christmas party he was fucking his secretary in the bathroom while his wife (nice lady, knew her too and grew up with her brother) was sitting at the table waiting for him. So this guy has pictures just like these plastered all over his office. Yep, THOSE are the kind of guys who enjoy this shit.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
89. Although it would still be needless...
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:51 AM
Mar 2012

Although it would still be needless killing, I'd be a lot more impressed if they'd taken those very dangerous animals with a spear.

Darth_Kitten

(14,192 posts)
70. The moronic, spoiled idiots are getting serious flak for this. Good.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 08:10 AM
Mar 2012

Dumb fucks. I'd seriously stay away from unfeeling, entitled scum who think killing something makes them feel like men.

Look at them, what morons.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
72. so repugnant
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 09:00 AM
Mar 2012

especially the elephant picture, now I want to throw up or cry.
I wish someone would hunt and stuff them trumps for trophies.

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
90. Most of them would probably condescendingly say that it's different when local tribes
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:55 AM
Mar 2012

do such a thing. They don't know better, after all.

 

joeybee12

(56,177 posts)
114. So, you're saying there's not a difference between subsitence hunting
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:58 AM
Mar 2012

and canned hunting so you can hack off a part of it to put on your wall?

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
116. There's certainly a difference in motivation.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 12:01 PM
Mar 2012

But I don't think there's a moral difference, in that I don't find either activity immoral.

belcffub

(595 posts)
117. are these canned hunts
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 12:13 PM
Mar 2012

I know people who have gone over to Africa for hunts and they weren't "canned". Several went more then once in order to get the animal they were looking for. They lived in the villages while on the hunt. These were not resort like places in the least.

from the village's point of view I see this is as a win / win if done smartly. They were harvesting the meet... now they get the meet and a source of income... now it does need to be done in such a manner that heard numbers are maintained. Hopefully as it is in the countries best interest proper management of this resource is being done.

as I said above I have little interest in trophy hunting (although I would love to get a moose mount for my off-grid cabin some day - I have a youtube channel full of info on it if anyone's interested) but do deer, turkey and small game hunt.

stuntcat

(12,022 posts)
80. so classy
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:18 AM
Mar 2012

I hope these photos will be remembered in 70 years when we've totally wiped these animals out.

Oh nevermind, by that time things will so desperate no one will have time to care how horrible people were now.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
86. Trophy hunting is a vile practice.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:48 AM
Mar 2012

Going to eat the meat and use the skin? No problem. But hunting solely for the sake of sport appalls me...

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
93. As per the story, the meat was donated to the locals.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:08 AM
Mar 2012

The skins of game animals aren't always useful, but let's assume that they made a rug out of the leopard. Would you no longer characterize their hunting as "vile" under those circumstances?

 

joeybee12

(56,177 posts)
88. What absolute scum....
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:50 AM
Mar 2012

Leopards are very endangered...anyone with any knowledge of wild animals knows this...they're just trying to prove...like their fatass father...that their d**ks aren't tiny.

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
92. Leopards aren't "very endangered".
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:01 AM
Mar 2012
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard



If they were they would have the "CR" rating. They're classified as "near threatened", which is the second best classification. Limited hunting won't threaten the species.
 

joeybee12

(56,177 posts)
110. Um....
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:54 AM
Mar 2012

Leopards have the largest distribution of any wild cat, occurring widely in eastern and central Africa, although populations have shown a declining trend and are fragmented outside of sub-Saharan Africa. Within sub-Saharan Africa, the species is still numerous and even thriving in marginal habitats where other large cats have disappeared. But populations in North Africa may be extinct.[4]

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
113. Given that information, it sounds as if limited hunting of the species is fine.
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:57 AM
Mar 2012

Restrict it to areas where they're thriving, and there's no threat to the species as a whole.

Isn't that exactly what's taking place here?

bullwinkle428

(20,628 posts)
124. "Limited hunting", i.e., "limited" to the ultra-wealthy who have absolute scads
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 02:05 PM
Mar 2012

of money to blow on such things.

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
163. Get help...for what, exactly?
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 11:08 AM
Mar 2012

For the quite valid characterization of trophy big game hunting as a "hobby"? For recognizing that it's expensive? For shrugging when rich people spend a lot of money?

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
91. Disgusting
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 10:56 AM
Mar 2012

They have not a care in the world, they want for NOTHING, yet they choose to spend their time killing for fun rather then doing anything productive for society.

Parasites.....fucking parasites.

siligut

(12,272 posts)
101. I can't say what I want to about these ignoramuses
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:22 AM
Mar 2012

It would get my post hidden. so you will just have to use your imagination.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
115. Just goes to show you cannot
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 12:00 PM
Mar 2012

BUY class. The Trump Turd Family are trash. Scum of the earth. I so wish that big cat would comeback to life and do a few horrible things to those two assholes I cannot post in public.

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
138. like anyone would cite "the circle of life" if there was even the remotest chance that they'd be on
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 04:53 PM
Mar 2012

its receiving end

Response to n2doc (Original post)

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,328 posts)
126. Paradoxically, this may be good for the animals
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 02:32 PM
Mar 2012

A hunt like this moves a bunch of money from Trump's vaults to the continent of Africa.

Some hunting money is used to buy more land as a wildlife refuge (and a managed hunting area). Without this influx, the lands might be taken for farming, causing more pressure on the population of endangered animals.

Also, the hunters will take the "trophy parts" of the dead animals. The good parts, the edible parts, are going into the bellies of local residents, maybe the relatives of the hunt support crew, maybe some other distribution scheme.

In the U.S., money from hunting licenses, ammo tax, etc, has gone toward buying or leasing land for conservation and hunting. The deer population is healthy through these activities, and the population of wild turkeys has been brought back from the brink of extinction.

So, I can't say that the Trump brothers are not asshats, I don't know them. But this little safari doesn't mean much. It's just another activity for the uber-rich.

belcffub

(595 posts)
129. what I was trying to see in my posts above...
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 02:54 PM
Mar 2012

hunting is not evil...the trumps... well the jury is still out...

bullwinkle428

(20,628 posts)
193. Typical Trump - throwing his kids under the bus so his precious image won't be tainted
Thu Mar 15, 2012, 02:18 PM
Mar 2012

by the stank of their despicable actions.

RebelOne

(30,947 posts)
136. As an animal lover and animal rights advocate,
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 04:46 PM
Mar 2012

and also as a vegetarian, I find these photo sickening. I would love to smack the smiles off their faces.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
137. At least a buffalo can be eaten
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 04:52 PM
Mar 2012

not that these festering shitheels would eat it, but killing a beautiful big cat for the sake of vanity is nauseating. What a pair of disgusting fuckwits.

hamsterjill

(15,220 posts)
140. Wimps!
Tue Mar 13, 2012, 05:16 PM
Mar 2012

Both of them. Even the odds where these animals are concerned and see who winds up with a smile on its face? Hint, hint...it won't be one of the Trump chumps!

This is yet another example of why the 1% are a bunch of jerks.

infadel

(4 posts)
154. The scream of the self-righteous
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 09:27 AM
Mar 2012

I jumped on this sight a couple of days ago and when I was logging in I believe there was a welcome sentence referring to this site as the most liberal site on the web. Nothing could be further from the truth. Maybe "liberal" has just become a definition of emotionaly driven people who abandon logic as soon as they see something that makes them uncomfortable.

First, compare the number of leopards now in sub-saharan africa with the number of leopards there were before the USA started permiting importation of "sport hunted" leopard trophies. Sport hunting has pretty much single handedly saved the African leopard.

Seceond, The leopard was eaten. Every leopard killed over there except for some of the ones that are poisoned get eaten. This is in Africa and just because you haven't seen leopard at the grocery doesn't mean there isn't a whole village that wouldn't fight tooth and nail to get a slice of a leopard carcass.

Third, People in many of the nations where leopard hunting occurs are STARVING. Not like you who reeeealy want a starbucks in the morning, but the real kind of starving. Like not eating for ten days straight, and burrying your baby this morning before you walked ten miles to eat a patch of grass growing on the side of a road, starving. Unemployment sits at %85+. Loosing your job is much like a long death sentence. I am not exagerating. You think that picture of the cut off elephant tail was gross and barbaric? You should see the chaos that erupts as soon as the ivory comes out and the masses decend on the meat like a riot. Game scouts will stand on the carcass as long as they can, beating at the hundreds of starving families with whips and sticks, who descend upon the dead beast like fire ants on a baby bird. Knives slashing, people biting at each other, stuffing meat into their mouths while they cut more off and throw it to their children standing outside the brawl. In a matter of a couple of hours a five ton beast is nothing but a dark blood spot on the ground.

Fourth, those "assholes" that shoot those beautiful animals just did more to save starving africans in a couple of weeks than any of you are doing for the rest of your lives. If you could stop the sport hunting that would just put hundreds of more people into those desperate piles fighting for meat.

Fifth, and this is the part people don't understand who have never spent time in africa, most areas where there is not sport hunting have no wildlife yet. The people have consumed every last little bit of anything edible. Remember they are STARVING. The predators threaten their livestock, so they poison every single animal that might kill chattle. Every thing else is nothing but a walking meat twinky. All of the megafauna is snared and eaten. When that is gon they start trapping all the birds until they are all eaten. When they are gone, they eat bugs, leaves and anything else that will make their beellies feel full. This isn't a because of some drought or unforseen natural event. Its just Africa.

belcffub

(595 posts)
158. great post
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 10:39 AM
Mar 2012

It was what I was trying to say above... it is very short sighted to view this as a bad thing...

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
161. boohoohoo... they against big game hunting for the ultra rich losers
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 10:52 AM
Mar 2012

boohoohoo...go cry somewhere else with your phony rationalizations.

uppityperson

(115,677 posts)
183. What about big game tours, photography tours vs killing animal tours? They would bring in a lot of
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 05:09 PM
Mar 2012

money while not killing the animals. Rather like they are trying to do with mt gorillas. Bring people in to view, don't kill the animals so you can bring more in to view. Meanwhile charging a lot of money.

First, compare the number of leopards now in sub-saharan africa with the number of leopards there were before the USA started permiting importation of "sport hunted" leopard trophies. Sport hunting has pretty much single handedly saved the African leopard.

OK, how about giving us a link to a reputable source showing those numbers? Thank you for that.

 

MichaelMcGuire

(1,684 posts)
164. The more I hear and learn about the Trumps.
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 11:09 AM
Mar 2012

The more I wish they would take, that golf course to fuck along with their new found concern, over issues concerning Scotland. Ironic when you think he spent most of his life ignoring her.


As for the pictures you'd need to be mentally ill to be proud of needless killing. If they want to impress me posing next to dead animals .... next time they want to tackle one of them big cats armed with only a tablespoon.

LynneSin

(95,337 posts)
166. What a beautiful leopard and what a shame to die like that
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 11:13 AM
Mar 2012

First and foremost I do support the right to hunt; however, my beliefs include that you kill only what you can use. That's the way Native Americans hunted and I think it is a smart policy. My stepfather hunts, mostly deer, and our entire family enjoys the venison we get from it.

What I see Trump posing with are 2 animals that probably won't be used in any way except maybe the pelt of the leopard and bragging rights that 'look what I killed'. True hunters don't hunt that way.

What a dickhead.

belcffub

(595 posts)
167. here's my problem with this line of logic
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 11:17 AM
Mar 2012

the tribe would probably be hunting these animals if it were not more beneficial to allow outsiders to do it.

In the end the tribe gets the meat just like if they hunted and they get a source of income. It is a win win... unless you are a leopard... then not so much...

infadel

(4 posts)
174. leopard shortages
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 02:23 PM
Mar 2012

Actually there is no shortage of leopard. Most of the major cities in sub-saharan africa report leopards actualy living within the cities themselves. About two years ago one of the embassies in Harare Zimbabwe had a problem when a female leopard started frequenting their grounds. This is in the middle of the largest city in Zimbabwe. I think she was only seen once but signs of her prowling were found each morning and I think the embassy had a labor shortage for a little while. She was never killed and after a while she left.

What many people fail to understand that don't spend time around leopard, and most wild felines, is they are ghosts. They hate being seen. Even if it is only to take their picture. Their entire existance and evolution based itself upon stealth, and they are masters of it. There are literaly millions of leopards living in sub-saharan africa and that number increases each year. Even with that fact many of the natives will live their entire lives in the presence of leopard and may never see one.

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
180. those guys aren't there to help starving africans but i see what you're saying, to some degree.
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 04:11 PM
Mar 2012

but they are assholes and i'd rather see these spoiled assholes do something more challenging, like with bow and arrow or even crossbow, with backup so if they actually hit and wound an animal the local hunters get paid to track it down.

there are a lot better ways to ease starvation in africa (and i have seen starvation) than catering to a bunch of dicks looking to kill animals for trophies. one way is to defeat republicans in elections until the party begins to replace greedy and insane candidates with thinking cons that recognize the need to deal with global warming, fund game preserves, education, etc.

infadel

(4 posts)
185. The Natives are getting paid to track them
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 05:29 PM
Mar 2012

That is what actually happens, but with all hunting clients. Most clients will have 2-3 trackers with their hunting party. Without them Trumps would likely never find a leopard to shoot. Very often, even when shot with a firearm, the leopard is wounded. These trackers then follow the wounded leopard so a proffesional hunter can end the ordeal. In my opinion these trackers are some of the bravest men on earth. They go into a horrible situation UNARMED where the known outcome is probably bloody and painful.

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
186. their wound rate would be higher with arrows etc. and it would actually take balls as opposed to
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 06:30 PM
Mar 2012

modern rifles/scopes that allows them to hunt from hundreds of yards away. as long as the trackers are involved anyway might as well actually make it a 'contest' and give the animal chance to maim or gore the dumbass cowardly vain human. and give the trackers guns. that would be the way.... yeah... they could even charge more.

belcffub

(595 posts)
187. there are hunters who go spear hunting over there
Thu Mar 15, 2012, 08:02 AM
Mar 2012

but you'd have to be a fool not to have some sort of backup

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
196. i was thinking more of a leopard- this guy is still an asshole, with a young buffalo wondering what
Fri Mar 16, 2012, 12:47 AM
Mar 2012

the human was doing.

belcffub

(595 posts)
188. This is an actual industry for them
Thu Mar 15, 2012, 08:16 AM
Mar 2012

most of the time it seems when we try to help Africa it ends up hurting.

We send food... the places were we send it farms can't compete with free and the farm goes under creating greater demand
We send cloths... so much so that their is little domestic clothing manufacturing (again hard to compete with free)

So here there is an industry that exists. Where people are not getting a hand out but can take pride in earning a living. Where conservation is working and herd sizes are increasing. Again I do not see the problem here

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,328 posts)
176. Are photographers' fees being used for conservation areas?
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 02:43 PM
Mar 2012

Photographers take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints.

Hunters take trophies, leave meat and money for the local economy.

Without hunters, there would be far fewer game reserves, so far fewer wild animals.

Hunting big game on an African safari is a hobby for rich people, so I won't be doing that anytime soon.

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
178. i'd rather see these 'tough' guys have to do these hunts with bows and arrows and spears
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 03:58 PM
Mar 2012

and crossbows.

photographers and non hunters go on safari too- they pay into the economy. meat? maybe the reason there aren't more game reserves is because there are republicans fighting those kinds of initiatives and preservation and education and would rather spend money on war and oil subsidies.

i know hunters add to the tourist money and i imagine they can be used to help control overpopulation but i wonder if it's that significant relative to non-hunter safaris and if that ratio can be improved.

The Midway Rebel

(2,191 posts)
177. Man, the rich sure do have some fucked up hobbies.
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 03:52 PM
Mar 2012

I can think of a lot of things I could of done with that money to feed people and help animal populations rather than indulge in blood sports. What pricks!

I cannot believe the rationalizations that this is a somehow a positive and good thing that are presented in this thread. Acttually, I can and find them to be humorous.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
184. That explains a lot
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 05:23 PM
Mar 2012

they must have given one of the smaller pelts to Daddy so he could put it on top of his head.

Response to n2doc (Original post)

infadel

(4 posts)
191. Do you want to see the real evil hurting wildlife?
Thu Mar 15, 2012, 02:00 PM
Mar 2012

I have been reading the posts on this thread and trying to understand all the different angles people have for hating these boys. I am starting to believe the main focus against them is nothing more than class warfare. Dady made lots of money so we must hate them. If this is not the case how come we can find no referrence on these forums to the curious case of Mr. Ngubane from KwaZuluNatal? In the year 2007 Mr. Ngubane was arrested with 58 leopard skins he had poisoned using a nasty chemical called Temik. After being convicted and sentenced to COMMUNITY SERVICE, he was caught in the year 2008 with 92 leopard skins from cats he had poisoned! The entire quota for all of KwaZuluNatal for sustainable harvest of leopard is 5. In a matter of 2 years this one asshole managed to whipe out 30 years of sustainable harvest, and they failed to convict him in 2008. He single handedly has threatened to run a species out of an ecosystem And yall will never say or here anything about him! Why? Because you all are too busy cussing a couple of dorks that you found pictures of.

 

naughty nina

(12 posts)
192. How long have you been a vedge?
Thu Mar 15, 2012, 02:08 PM
Mar 2012

For me, it's over a quarter of a century.

(Killing animals sucks, doesn't it?)

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