Sorry, but you can't shrug off the iPad. Heres why:

[denem]

Last edited Fri Mar 9, 2012, 03:50 PM - Edit history (1)

First Quarter Sales.



Apple shipped more iPads than the HP's entire range of PCs.
They will sell more iPads this quarter if for no other reason than
the entry level iPad is 399.

25 billion apps have been downloaded for iphone/ipad in 3 years.
That challenges the Windows ecosystem.

And one more thing,
The iPad ships with a more than useful Exchange Server client,
which Microsoft will not put in Windows because they want to sell you Office.
So if you choose a PC laptop and need Exchange, add Office to the price.

NOTE: I am not suggesting anybody should buy an iPad.

[liberal N proud]

1. I have a Lenovo tablet and my wife has an HP tablet.

Simply because the cost was significantly less expensive.

My computers are all Dell becuse we get a corporate discount.

That makes the fact that the iPad sells more that much more significantly economically.

[Pholus]

2. So is the point of this post to worship a product? Consumerism is overrated, you know.

Try this for a decent counterpoint:

http://www.lifehack.org/articles/lifestyle/how-to-avoid-being-enslaved-by-consumerism.html

[denem]

3. I'm just giving you the numbers.

[Pholus]

12. Why?

Serious question. Why is it important to note this?

[denem]

15. To put a little perspective into the 'fad for fanbois' debate.

The iPad is serious technology that's not going away anytime soon.

[LanternWaste]

16. I imagine it's a valid counter to the spin on DU over the past week

I imagine it's a valid counter to some spin on DU over the past week that the i-Pad is irrelevant. Seems to me the OP is merely stating that it is, indeed not, irrelevant.

[Pholus]

19. It's not irrelevant, nor is it the second coming...

Spin is everywhere.

[LanternWaste]

28. The OP did not seem to imply that it is the second coming.

The OP did not seem to imply that it is the second coming. If, however, that was indeed inferred, that would be on you.



My mistake-- I thought you were asking a sincere question. I'll note that for next time. Thanks.

[Pholus]

38. Post 2 was not enough for you to understand my question and its intent?

I typically am unimpressed by posts looking like they sourced in an Apple marketing meeting, especially when accompanied by a photo which looks like it was taken by someone attending an Apple marketing meeting.

[onenote]

27. actually, if you're someone who is looking for work, consumerism isn't that overrated.

[Pholus]

34. Nice try, but Apple's "The Irish Two Step" isn't really helping out people looking for work here.

In Apple's case, consumerism is mostly negatives with a couple positives grudgingly thrown in.

[onenote]

45. I was commenting on consumerism in general, not apple specifically

My point is that while some folks like to complain about "consumerism," if people don't spend on more than food and shelter -- in other words if people don't purchase "consumer goods," the economy isn't going improve and employment isn't going to rise.

[Pholus]

51. Perhaps, but I like to think Dick Cheney is wrong about everything.

And to conclude that we've devolved into a country where gratuitous shopping is the only thing preventing a total economic collapse is kind of too much to admit.

[onenote]

57. so what is your theory about what will fuel the economy and create jobs?

[Pholus]

61. Actually start building things again.

[onenote]

68. What sorts of things?

[Pholus]

74. This *is* DU, isn't it? Haven't you been following along? 24 Jan 2012 would be a clue.

Of course, APPLE was not part of that. For them, US workers no longer have the "skills and motivation" (read don't work 80+_ hours a week for a pittance).

[onenote]

77. Again, my comment wasn't about apple, per se. And it looks like we're in agreement on consumerism

I absolutely agree that this country needs to be manufacturing things again -- consumer products like cars, MasterLocks, technology devices, etc. And they need to be manufactured here. But if consumers don't buy consumer products -- don't engage in "consumerism" by replacing their cars, by purchasing new devices, there isn't much point in manufacturing them. So I guess we agree both that consumer products should be made and that consumer products should be purchased. The key is to be a smart consumer and to purchase consumer goods built in the US when possible and to support programs to bring manufacturing that has moved overseas back to these shores.

[Pholus]

80. Alright, yes I am Mr. Overreaction tonight.

I accept being called on it. You are absolutely correct.

[hobbit709]

4. LibreOffice-formerly OpenOffice is free.

The only paid for Office App I use is WordPerfect, which beats the crap out of M$ Orifice.

[denem]

5. LibreOffice does not include an Exchange client

which is mandatory in the majority of businesses.

[hobbit709]

6. I don't find it necessary.

[denem]

7. That's fine.

But an Exchange client is added value for many people,

[hobbit709]

8. Anything that ties me to Outhouse is garbage in my book.

there are plenty of email clients that work better and are safer to use in my book.

[denem]

11. I actually agree with you.

I've had ten years supporting BackOffice. It's yuk.

[Pholus]

18. The definition of bloat used to be the application included a web browser and email client.

Personally I use Evolution to talk to the MS Exchange server and have not had a problem.

Others use Thunderbird and it's extensions.

Why would I need my office suite to replicate features that can be easily gotten from other places?

[RobinA]

50. WordPerfect exists?

There is a place in the world where WordPerfect exists? Besides my computer? Do tell!

[hobbit709]

79. Been using it since 5.0 for DOS. On X5 now

[SlimJimmy]

9. I've had an iPad since version 1. Not all that impressed; even with the iCloud update. (meh)

[adigal]

10. It is way overpriced to be made in China

I would pay more if it were made in America, but it is just more Chinese crap now. I sent back a new $1200 Macbook Pro last month; I had it 10 days, and had three serious problems. I can buy 3 Dell pieces of Chinese crap for $1200!!

Fools and their money are easily separated.

[denem]

13. Apple 'Smokes the Competition' in Reliability Survey

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/11/30/apple-smokes-the-competition-in-reliability-survey/

Maybe you were unlucky. I had to return 1 in 10 Dells pet 8 months when I was supporting them.

[Pholus]

22. There is smoke there, but I think I will avoid inhaling it for now... ;)

As usual, I got MORE out of the link in the link. Data reported from a voluntary sample of *some* PCWORLD readers.

"It's important to note that our survey results don't necessarily represent the opinions of a given company's customers as a whole. And because our data comes only from PCWorld readers who chose to take the survey, our results don't necessarily reflect the opinions of PCWorld readers in general. "

Wonder why that didn't make it into macrumors... well, actually not buy hey that's because it's my whole thesis.

[denem]

36. I's a survey.

The fact that it's voluntary would tend to overrepresent dissatisfied customers. If you bought a lemon, you would want to complain about it.

I don't know of any company that publishes their internal figures. When one Dell Workstationwas failing at a rate of more than 50%, that sat on the information, and were eventually sued.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/projectfailures/dell-lawsuit-pattern-of-deceit/10165

[Pholus]

41. And not a particularly good one.

That wasn't even macrumor's fault! What a horribly presented survey. You get a handful of the numbers from the text but the "infographics" are nearly useless. I guess the statistician earned its keep by presenting the information simply instead of completely.

Thank the maker I've never bought a PC from an integrator...

[denem]

46. Can you find a better one?

Apple tops the customer satisfaction surveys year after year. It's not an analogue for reliability, but it's close.

[Pholus]

49. No, nor do I care to try. The data in the survey was too refined however.

I'm a numbers snob. Don't tell me what the conclusions are, I want to see the data and them for myself.

So, I'm just saying it was a garbage presentation of the data. Those graphs for number-phobes were worse than useless. That doesn't mean your takeaway is wrong...

[denem]

55. Got it.

Thanks.

[Drale]

14. I have my awesome laptop and a smart phone

why do I need something in between? I can do so much more on my laptop then you can do on an Ipad.

[denem]

17. That's fine. I am not suggesting anyone buy one.

But when one product outsells the entire range of HP PCs, it's serious stuff.

[obxhead]

21. Not really.

If HP had a monopoly on that entire range of PCs the numbers would blow the entire range of apple products out of the water.

[got root]

87. Back on earth

Apples actual numbers are blowing them all away.

I think it's a cop out to attribute it to mass brain washing.

Though, many fall for that simple narrative, hook line and sinker.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

52. I used to think that way, too, until I realized that I could

put several complete TV seasons and a dozen books, make backup copies of photos, and do e-mail and web surfing on a device smaller and thinner than a school notebook while traveling.

This replaced the full-sized laptop and several paper books that I used to take along on international trips.

[Pholus]

71. So what happened to the laptop?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

82. I use it for work (I'm self-employed and work at home)

and for web-surfing at home. The keyboard on a real laptop is much easier to work on than the virtual keyboard on an iPad.

But the iPad sure is great for entertainment (books and videos) on 12-hour plane flights, for keeping in touch with people and events back home while traveling overseas, and especially for backing up and displaying photos.

[Pholus]

84. Sounds like a good use!

[jobycom]

20. Sliced bread... It's going places. nt

[tledford]

23. Hmm. So, 15MM iPad versus 50MM non-iPads.

That's it, all other computers are dead, it's all iPads from now on.

[denem]

25. On those numbers, 23% iPads isn't a drop in the ocean.

I never implied other computers are going to die.

[Pholus]

24. One more thought. Does the iPad replace the PC?

http://www.pcworld.com/article/251501/new_apple_ipad_kicks_pc_industry_while_its_down.html

Nice quote:

"The iPad is having an effect on the PC business, for sure, but the magnitude isn't clear at all," said Dan Olds, an analyst at Gabriel Consulting Group. "For most iPad users, the iPad isn't their only computing device."

The reasons why are discussed more fully within but are obvious with a few moments' reflection...

[denem]

33. I have some other advice. HP should lay off NutMeg Whitman

so she find a deep hole for her superb marketing nous.

[Pholus]

35. HP used to be a good AMERICAN tech company. Then the current bunch of CEOs came in.

And ALL of them sold us down the river.

[denem]

37. DEC had a superb CPU, the Alpha.

They junked it, disbanded the team, then sacked them.

[Pholus]

39. So you understand my general lack of enthusiasm about any hype then?

[denem]

43. I'm actually trying to stand back a little from the hype vs anti-hype.

My experience with an iPad was setting one up for a friend with a stroke, so he could use point and talk software, that allowed him to communicate with his children. the software cost $200, compared with $6000 for a dedicated device that offered little more.

There are uses for this form factor. The loss of American expertise is something else again. ARM was spun off by Intel, and is know owned by a British company.

[Pholus]

47. Yet a minute ago you talk about 92% of fortune 500 companies experimenting....

That's kind of sort of hype you know...

So we both have a horse in this race (mine is really disliking tech overhype and the resulting waste as people discard equipment that has not EOL'ed through anything but advertising and the need to do "latest and greatest" when you really don't).

However, you've made some good arguments too. Technology has uses and as long as it's not some idiotic "world domination" thing then its all good.

[denem]

54. The 92% was an answer to a bald statement that

'They'll (business) still be buying PCs running Windows 7 Professional, because PCs are cost effective'. Plainly they will be buying both, if the reports are anything to go buy.

I want to see strong competition to Apple, for a whole host of reasons, but I would prefer if those competitors were not Korean, like Samsung, or Chinese, like Lenovo.

HP had a real opportunity with WebOS to make a good tablet. They killed it, like they have killed off so much of their intellectual property and manufacturing expertise.

[Pholus]

60. Fair enough then!

Then we actually do agree at the core issue Oh well, something usually comes up. Microsoft looked fairly unassailable a few years back and that changed -- just in time to at least blunt Palladium. Competition avoids system lockdown, which would be bad all-around.

And in that way, China did some good. As much as I despise foreign manufactured tech on principle, I did grudgingly appreciate one of my nearly non-English manuals for a DVD player 20 years back that warned me about a particular jumper and how I should never remove that jumper because region code protection would be removed and we all know that would be a bad thing to do so don't do it.

Here's hoping that someone remains around to do that for computing as the various "trusted computing" initiatives rolling around. If not it is off to open hardware....

[IDemo]

26. Let me know when they make one with a 22" screen

Until then, my old eyes aren't suited for them.

[denem]

30. Me neither actually.

I don't use a iPad for that very reason.

[ohheckyeah]

29. Which only proves

the majority doesn't always know best.

[yortsed snacilbuper]

31. iPass!

[Spider Jerusalem]

32. Sure I can, I have no need for one and no interest in buying one

so I can shrug it off and ignore it as an irrelevancy. I also don't own a smartphone, because I don't need one; I only have a mobile phone for emergencies. So I don't especially care about the iPhone, either. "25 billion apps" sounds like horseshit, frankly; "25 billion downloads from the App Store" possibly, but that in no way especially "challenges the Windows ecosystem" because a smartphone is not a desktop or laptop PC. And many people who may have an iPhone have a Windows PC or laptop anyway. The iPad may seem an attractive alternative to laptops for businesses and business users, with an Exchange client, but, guess what? They'll still be buying PCs running Windows 7 Professional, because while an iPad may be a cost-effective solution, Macs are not cost-effective in an enterprise environment.

[denem]

40. Thats why 92% of Fortune 500 companies are testing or deploying the iPad

http://thenextweb.com/apple/2011/10/04/92-of-the-fortune-500-companies-are-testing-or-deplo

[Humanist_Activist]

56. I strongly doubt that its being tested to replace computers for data entry...

database management, servers, etc. Areas where desktops are king, and portability isn't an issue.

[Spider Jerusalem]

63. To replace laptops, sure, not to replace workstations and servers.

Which doesn't at all contradict anything I've said. Reading comprehension is a good thing.

[Humanist_Activist]

42. I was able to buy a netbook for 250 bucks a year ago...

Hell, I'm posting from it right now. Its not a top of the line PC, but it easily matches an Ipad in specs, beats them in fact. Has 3 USB ports and an SD card slot, I can upgrade the RAM and hard drive, and its very portable. Expandability and flexibility are important. The only thing its missing is a touch screen, but its a loss I can do without.

ON EDIT: For my ebook reading needs, I have a Nook Touch, first thing I did was root it, now it does what I want, that set me back 100 dollars. For my music playing needs, I have a Droid X phone, and for general computing and movie playing needs, I have the netbook. Oh, and a monster of a desktop for major game and multimedia editing needs.

[denem]

44. If you only need a low resolution screen fine.

It's horses for courses. I cant work with 1024 x 600 - and no, I do not have an iPad yet. I will have a look at the new model.

[Humanist_Activist]

53. Works fine for me, indeed, with screens as small as 11 inches or so...

its pretty fine, as far as resolution goes. Indeed, if the resolution gets any greater, it would become damn near unusable, at least without something like a Metro UI(which I tried, it sucks, at least on desktops). Not saying the iPad is useless, it can fill a niche, but certainly not replace general computing. The problem is comparing it to desktops, laptops, or netbooks, devices with Keyboards, Mice, expandability, etc. Its an apples to oranges comparison at best, its like comparing Motorcycles to Cars.

[ScreamingMeemie]

48. And yet, somehow, I've gotten by with just a crap laptop.

Kind of easy to shrug off the iPad here. People want to spend money on stupid stuff, it's not up to me to stop them. I'd rather feed and clothe my children, and take them on the occasional getaway.

[onenote]

58. so you believe that people buying iPads have naked starving children and never go on vacation.

That's interesting.

[ScreamingMeemie]

62. Nope. Didn't say that. If I bought an iPad, I wouldn't be able to take

my son to the Rodeo this weekend. I don't need the "latest" thing.

[Dreamer Tatum]

64. But if you bought an iPad you could go to YouTube and watch footage of a rodeo

and Apple would get more money. Wouldn't you rather experience life on a shiny 10 inch screen and gain
the approval of millions of Apple slaves?

[onenote]

66. So am I correct that while you think it woudl be a "stupid" thing for you to purchase,

that might not be the case who has the resources to buy it and finds value in it? It wasn't clear that was what you meant when you said its not up to you to stop people from spending money on "stupid stuff." This is true. It certainly not up to me to stop you from spending money going to the rodeo, something that has no attraction for me at all. However, I would never suggest that because I don't like rodeo, its "stupid".

[ScreamingMeemie]

72. You are correct in thinking that I am someone who finds access to the internet

easy enough to do on my laptop. And also someone who thinks people who need the latest thing are a bit frivolous. But that is my opinion. You are entitled to yours. I call it like I see it. And that's pretty stupid stuff.

[Dreamer Tatum]

59. Is there ANY other consumer product that gets advocated here the way Apple shit does?

I don't think there is. I don't understand the point of the OP. You can't shrug it off? Sure I can - SHRUG.

Earth to Apple lickspittles: IT'S A PORTABLE DEVICE THAT CONNECTS TO THE INTERNET. For fuck's silly sake,
it's not the solution to mankind's problems.

[onenote]

65. Is there any other consumer product that gets dumped on here the way Apple shit does?

[Pholus]

67. Might be a correlation then...

[Dreamer Tatum]

70. Why does derision toward Apple require such prompt and valiant response from the same people here?

It amuses me how THE MOST VALUABLE COMPANY IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND requires
a DU defense squad.

But enjoy your sleek products.

[ScreamingMeemie]

73. And the pure anger that comes from them when someone does not toe the Apple

line. I have a 5-ish year old Toshiba laptop. Never had a virus. I have a (yikes!) Samsung flip phone. I know...I should be voted off the island.

[Pholus]

75. Quote: "Who's mad? I'm ROFLing that someone could compare that piece of shit with an iPad!"

Of course, the "piece of shit" was a sub $100 notebook from CVS but I was impressed by the comparison there.

Had me thinking that this Apple Cultist really doesn't get what a computer does. It's just a shiny toy and only the best and brightest have any kind of value.

And then I thought about One Laptop Per Child and wondered if it was dung in this person's esteemed opinion as well. They never responded so perhaps the clue stick was applied firmly but I'll never know.

Anyway, Meemie, I'll leave the island with ye...

[Leopolds Ghost]

69. I was about to ask the same question. Of course, the goal of the iPad is to kill both PCs & books

So naturally people who are in favor of zero sum "competition" are all for it.

And I'm a Mac user, but Mac users should know they stopped producing their own chips with the PPC, which was the high water mark for Mac hardware innovation. It's all marketing products designed by other R&D firms now.



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[Johonny]

78. DU use to have the daily car wars

where company reps from the car companies exposed dirt and talk up their brand over and over. Not as heavy these days but it's still there.

[got root]

88. Can you imagine Guttenberg, sittin in a bar...

probably not.

[Spike89]

76. Generally avoid these threads, but the numbers don't show anything really

A new type of device out sells a range of devices that have been around for decades. In other words, 100% of the people who might want/need one had no iPad or iPad-like tablets the last couple years. While at the same time, nearly 100% of people who wanted/needed a PC could get one. Add in the power that Apple has at attracting early adopters and you can't extend that adoption curve very far with any certainty.

Of course the 90+% of Fortune 500 stat is actually funny. I've worked in the IT department of a Fortune 500 company and we "evaluated" damn near everything. It would be hard to find a device that isn't in 90+% of Fortune 500 companies. It is also meaningless. Virtually 100% of Fortune 500 companies pay some employees a salary in excess of $1 million a year--doesn't mean $1 million salaries are common there.

[Edweird]

81. Sure I can. Watch- ::Shrugs::

[cherokeeprogressive]

83. I have something for that...

iPad =

[Enrique]

85. a lot of people also buy Celine Dion records

[Bluenorthwest]

86. The i-Pad is a great toy for transit.....

it does not replace a laptop and it is not really a tool. Great, great toy.

[peasant one]

89. Really?

iPad is nothing compared to the original turbo-encabulator i really believe Apple probably used some of the ideas from T-E. Watch the youtube and you'll recognize some of the features.