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cal04

(41,505 posts)
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 07:33 PM Mar 2012

Glorida Allred Seeking Ways To Prosecute Limbaugh

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/glorida-allred-seeking-ways-to-prosecute-limbaugh

Gloria Allred has sent a letter to Denise Nieman, the County Prosecutor in West Palm Beach, Florida, on behalf of the Women’s Equal Rights Legal Defense and Education Fund, asking for an investigation into whether Rush Limbaugh violated Florida defamation law when he called Sandra Fluke a "slut" and a "prostitute." Allred cites Section 836.04 of Florida Statute, which says that "whoever speaks of and concerning any woman, married or unmarried, falsely and maliciously imputing to her a want of chastity, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree."

"Mr. Limbaugh has publicly acknowledged that his reference to Ms. Fluke as a 'slut' and 'prostitute' were baseless and false," Allred writes. "In view of the fact that Mr. Limbaugh resides in your county and allegedly made the false statements concerning Ms. Fluke in your county as well, this letter is directed to your office."

Read the full letter here.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/documents/2012/03/gloria-allred-calls-to-consider-prosecuting-rush-limbaugh-under-florida-law.php?page=1
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Glorida Allred Seeking Ways To Prosecute Limbaugh (Original Post) cal04 Mar 2012 OP
Wow...a misdemeanor. Dreamer Tatum Mar 2012 #1
A misdemeanor can bring up to one year in prison Bandit Mar 2012 #10
That could shut his ugly mouth for a whole year LiberalEsto Mar 2012 #17
Nobody is going to prison ... dems_rightnow Mar 2012 #27
It would not be for saying the word slut Bandit Mar 2012 #49
Do you think a 19th Century law that is based on an assumption that the state needs to protect onenote Mar 2012 #51
That would certainly be the CONSERVATIVE thing to do Major Nikon Mar 2012 #53
She's a wacky lady edhopper Mar 2012 #2
Someone famously said of her eissa Mar 2012 #3
Small and petty... JSnuffy Mar 2012 #4
Not one of my favorite people but that could definitely change tularetom Mar 2012 #5
I dunno if she can. Cleita Mar 2012 #37
Glorida Allred Seeks Ways To Prosecute rocktivity Mar 2012 #6
Please get a real lawyer Ms Fluke. tridim Mar 2012 #7
She is a real attorney obamanut2012 Mar 2012 #13
Thanks for posting. DURHAM D Mar 2012 #19
Yes, I know, but Fluke deserves justice, not a circus. tridim Mar 2012 #26
Do you have something better to offer? nt DURHAM D Mar 2012 #28
Nope, just what I said. tridim Mar 2012 #36
There is nothing to indicate that Gloria Allred is acting as Sandra Fluke's attorney csziggy Mar 2012 #39
I suppose the useful idiots at the ACLU will come to his defense again bluestateguy Mar 2012 #8
What did you disagree with ACLU about in that case? sabrina 1 Mar 2012 #23
Florida law officials broke the law when seizing Rush's medical records... Luminous Animal Mar 2012 #33
I guess we know who his next target will be..LOL...n/t monmouth Mar 2012 #9
Hooray For Gloria! zorahopkins Mar 2012 #11
I'm Sorry But Allred Is An Ambulance Chaser And Could Give Rush...... global1 Mar 2012 #12
Gloria Allred has done so much for women and gay rights obamanut2012 Mar 2012 #14
She bears a lot of similarities to PETA jsmirman Mar 2012 #16
Hey, Gloria Allred came to my aid back in the late '70s when I was first on the air, and calimary Mar 2012 #15
THANKS for sharing your first-hand experience. That's nice to know Raine Mar 2012 #46
Now there's a way sharp_stick Mar 2012 #18
Thank you Gloria. DURHAM D Mar 2012 #20
Allred is a joke.. Upton Mar 2012 #21
Like I said above, if she doesn't have Sandra's cooperation jsmirman Mar 2012 #22
Are you an attorney? DURHAM D Mar 2012 #25
I can answer your question, but I don't really understand your question jsmirman Mar 2012 #29
Just a Yes or No would be good enough. DURHAM D Mar 2012 #31
Yeah, I've noticed that you are asking this question jsmirman Mar 2012 #34
And to get to what is at issue here jsmirman Mar 2012 #35
Only on hate radio. DURHAM D Mar 2012 #24
Allred is a publicity hound.. Upton Mar 2012 #30
You are just one man's opinion... DURHAM D Mar 2012 #32
Sincere question: onenote Mar 2012 #47
The sound you hear is Betty Friedan spinning in her grave. onenote Mar 2012 #38
Watch what you say. Zalatix Mar 2012 #42
Totally ridiculous. He had the freedom that say chrisa Mar 2012 #40
.Gloria Allred is a very successful high profile attorney, so the GOP'ers hate her. crunch60 Mar 2012 #41
Better to have her inside the tent, pissing out Canuckistanian Mar 2012 #43
Thank goodness deaniac21 Mar 2012 #44
Sorry responded to wrong post. n/t Gore1FL Mar 2012 #45
Like clockwork...... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Mar 2012 #48
As long as she doesn't do this again... progressoid Mar 2012 #50
That video is simply incredible jsmirman Mar 2012 #58
Ms. Fluke should sue Rush in CIVIL court, for slander per se. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2012 #52
You have some things right and others wrong. onenote Mar 2012 #54
I would plead that nobody who listens to Rush is reasonable. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2012 #57
what allred is saying is we should incarcerate those NOT in a protected class. karnac Mar 2012 #55
Take that back right now. We must shit on the First Amendment Zalatix Mar 2012 #59
Thanks for the laugh. Moondog Mar 2012 #56

Dreamer Tatum

(10,926 posts)
1. Wow...a misdemeanor.
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 07:35 PM
Mar 2012

That'll change some minds about Rush.

I mean, in addition to being called a pedophile and a drug addict, he'd be guilty of a MISDEMEANOR?

That just might do it.

Bandit

(21,475 posts)
10. A misdemeanor can bring up to one year in prison
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 08:12 PM
Mar 2012

One could only hope for a criminal complaint to be filed.....

 

LiberalEsto

(22,845 posts)
17. That could shut his ugly mouth for a whole year
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 08:39 PM
Mar 2012

Just think how much more peaceful the airwaves could be

dems_rightnow

(1,956 posts)
27. Nobody is going to prison ...
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 09:25 PM
Mar 2012

..... for saying "slut".

I doesn't even make sense to think that anyone SHOULD go to prison for saying the word. Even Rush Limbaugh.

Bandit

(21,475 posts)
49. It would not be for saying the word slut
Fri Mar 9, 2012, 10:15 AM
Mar 2012

Saying the word slut is not a crime, period.....However calling a person a slut on a National Radio Show is Defamation of that person and that is indeed a crime..It is slander and defamation, and there are indeed Laws against such things, not to even mention the Civil Liabilities that could be brought..

onenote

(42,702 posts)
51. Do you think a 19th Century law that is based on an assumption that the state needs to protect
Fri Mar 9, 2012, 01:54 PM
Mar 2012

the delicate sensibilities of women from offending speech through criminal laws not applicable to insulting words hurled at men is really the best way to go?

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
53. That would certainly be the CONSERVATIVE thing to do
Fri Mar 9, 2012, 05:51 PM
Mar 2012

Not prosecuting him under and outdated 19th century law would be a progressive idea.

eissa

(4,238 posts)
3. Someone famously said of her
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 07:39 PM
Mar 2012

that the easiest way to suffer physical injury was get between her and a camera. While she gets on my last nerve, I wish her luck on this one.

 

JSnuffy

(374 posts)
4. Small and petty...
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 07:39 PM
Mar 2012

Pretty much the nerdy kid in grade school. "Teacher, teacher! Bobby said a bad word!"

Rush would revel in the attention if this went through.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
5. Not one of my favorite people but that could definitely change
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 07:41 PM
Mar 2012

If she's able to pull this off and wack limbaugh's teeny weenie with a big fine or even some jail time she'll be my hero(ine).

On the other hand, this'll just make him a victim to his brain dead army of dumshit hicks, but overall it's a plus.

Anything that makes him an object of ridicule is needed.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
37. I dunno if she can.
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 09:53 PM
Mar 2012

She went after Arnold, when he was running for governor, but he outmaneuvered her and we were stuck with him for two terms. Although, I'm thinking maybe Maria stepped between them. Limbaugh doesn't have a wife from a powerful political family, so I hope she does get somewhere.

obamanut2012

(26,076 posts)
13. She is a real attorney
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 08:24 PM
Mar 2012

And has a decades-long career in advocating for women and their rights, and has been a strong supporter of marriage equality, including representing Robin Tyler and Diane Olson and Rev. Troy Perry and his husband Phillip Ray De Blieck pro bono.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Allred

DURHAM D

(32,609 posts)
19. Thanks for posting.
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 08:52 PM
Mar 2012

I am late into this thread so good for you.

I usually just take note in the Allred threads of the men who post negative remarks. Says a lot...

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
39. There is nothing to indicate that Gloria Allred is acting as Sandra Fluke's attorney
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 10:02 PM
Mar 2012

Allred seems to be asking for prosecution on the criminal misdemeanor count cited. That is not something that Fluke would have to be involved in.

bluestateguy

(44,173 posts)
8. I suppose the useful idiots at the ACLU will come to his defense again
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 08:00 PM
Mar 2012

As they did once before in his doctor shopping case.

Of course he continued to bash them on his show, never once saying thank you.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
23. What did you disagree with ACLU about in that case?
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 09:07 PM
Mar 2012

He also ran to a Democratic lawyer airc, a trial attorney, when he was in trouble, which didn't stop him from continuing to bash trial attorneys as far as I know.

But why would the ACLU not try to defend someone from drug charges? I despised him then as I do now, and really had to fight with my conscience when the ACLU decided to defend him, but I supported that defense in the end. It wasn't just about him.

And he did stop attacking drug users after he himself became an addict.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
33. Florida law officials broke the law when seizing Rush's medical records...
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 09:39 PM
Mar 2012

The ACLU defended Rush in regards to his right to privacy.

Thus, the ACLU did exactly what it should do. It protected the rights of everyone.

global1

(25,247 posts)
12. I'm Sorry But Allred Is An Ambulance Chaser And Could Give Rush......
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 08:17 PM
Mar 2012

a chance to play a martyr being targeted and hounded. I kinda wish she would back off an let Fluke herself take this up.

jsmirman

(4,507 posts)
16. She bears a lot of similarities to PETA
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 08:37 PM
Mar 2012

on the animal advocacy front.

People just don't realize how much positive change PETA has actually been involved in.

Otoh, I wish they wouldn't engage in some of the campaigns that I don't find all that productive/find unnecessarily divisive (to people who might otherwise support our cause).

Gloria has done a lot of good, but that doesn't make this any less of an instance of grandstanding.

Unless Sandra has agreed to be part of her efforts, this is really unfair and not cool of her to advance.

calimary

(81,261 posts)
15. Hey, Gloria Allred came to my aid back in the late '70s when I was first on the air, and
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 08:26 PM
Mar 2012

was confronted by several different kinds of sexist and unprofessional treatment. Moral support, mainly. She was kind, sympathetic, listened with great objectivity, and very discreet. She recorded Public Affairs features for a series of drop-in messages we had on the air. So I'd see her every week, especially during a time that was proving rather uncomfortable for me for a few reasons. She took me to lunch, let me cry on her shoulder, talked to me, gave me advice, and shared her own experiences. She talked about how, in many stations where she contributed on-air or was invited in as a guest, ANY hallway she walked down, some female employees would pass her little notes about issues they were facing in the workplace. Never failed, she said. She took this seriously and decided to make it one of her pet causes. And she assured me she would keep my complaints confidential and would not pursue anything without my consent.

I chose not to pursue any action, with her or any other legal counsel. Especially since I was being threatened with blackballing if I sought any recourse. And I was 23 and pretty new and the only woman - hell, the only person left in the newsroom, and fearful for my job when there'd already been heads rolling down the hall. It was a really shaky time for me and I was intimidated and terrified. Women who were achieving any measure of success back then were just emerging from the widely-held prejudice that "she slept her way into it." We'd just cracked that door open! Male radio executives and programmers were just starting to get used to having the chick on the air, as a deejay - usually on the late night shift or the overnight. SELDOM during drive time. Up til then, it had never even occurred to their mindset that women could be hired for on-air work that was every bit as competent and ratings-worthy as any man they'd hire. The change only happened because the FCC, in effect, responded to the growing clout of the women's movement by stepping in during the mid '70s and telling them they had to. I was always the "newsgal" and the only air shifts that allow any news are usually morning or afternoon drive, so I was always on in a prominent position by default. But we were still the anomaly in every newsroom at that time (it was almost like we were the "family pet," every newsroom had its token woman) and we were all, to one extent or other, afraid to rock the boat and assert ourselves too much. Gloria Allred was there from the beginning, and if she gave me a lot of moral support, she gave dozens of us that kind of moral support. And she never ambulance-chased or called back several times trying to solicit my business. She honored my request not to push it.

And I will always GREATLY appreciate her. When she gets loud and annoying and pushy and noisy and camera-hoggy, I find myself saying - "YOU GO GIRLFRIEND!!!!" And I say a little thank-you. Again. Gloria Allred is okay by me!

Raine

(30,540 posts)
46. THANKS for sharing your first-hand experience. That's nice to know
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 11:10 PM
Mar 2012

I've always liked her. I met her once at an Earth Day event in Santa Monica, it was just a quick intro but she was very nice.

Upton

(9,709 posts)
21. Allred is a joke..
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 08:56 PM
Mar 2012

didn't she support Crystal Mangum at the expense of the Duke lacrosse players too?

If anything, this is good news for Limbaugh..

jsmirman

(4,507 posts)
22. Like I said above, if she doesn't have Sandra's cooperation
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 09:01 PM
Mar 2012

(and I don't believe she does) this is exploitative of a woman who most certainly deserves to have control over how legal affairs related to Limbaugh's vicious, disgusting attacks are handled. I say this because Sandra would have to very specifically bear the human cost of any sort of legal case.

jsmirman

(4,507 posts)
29. I can answer your question, but I don't really understand your question
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 09:31 PM
Mar 2012

Could you supply some type of context in the form of the intentions behind your question and how my answer would contribute to this topic?

I'd also be happy to answer any questions you might have via PM, with the caveat that I would be asking for your discretion as to any contents of our conversation.

jsmirman

(4,507 posts)
34. Yeah, I've noticed that you are asking this question
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 09:46 PM
Mar 2012

with a defined agenda.

I've posted enough about what I know about the law and why on this site. You can do the math.

jsmirman

(4,507 posts)
35. And to get to what is at issue here
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 09:49 PM
Mar 2012

if you are an attorney, you would damn well know what Sandra is going to be put through if any case is pursued in this situation - and this most certainly includes the case that Allred asks be opened in a letter that, yes, I have read.

Upton

(9,709 posts)
30. Allred is a publicity hound..
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 09:35 PM
Mar 2012

she couldn't care less about this controversy...other than the media attention it might bring her..

Hopefully, Fluke will tell her to get lost..

onenote

(42,702 posts)
47. Sincere question:
Fri Mar 9, 2012, 12:08 AM
Mar 2012

Why would a feminist be supportive of a law that perpetuated a gender-based double standard from 1883 based on the premise that defending a woman's honor was a substantial state interest (but not defending a man's)?

This is the provision that Allred wants enforced:

836.04?Defamation.—Whoever speaks of and concerning any woman, married or unmarried, falsely and maliciously imputing to her a want of chastity, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
History.—s. 1, ch. 3460, 1883; RS 2419; GS 3260; RGS 5091; CGL 7193; s. 990, ch. 71-136.

onenote

(42,702 posts)
38. The sound you hear is Betty Friedan spinning in her grave.
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 09:57 PM
Mar 2012

Really? Using a gender specific law from the 1880s, adopted to protect the "weaker sex" to go after Limpy? Could you hand him a better club to beat progressives over the head with?

 

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
42. Watch what you say.
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 10:37 PM
Mar 2012

You're lucky that comment got ignored... (I'm on your side here, mind you.)

chrisa

(4,524 posts)
40. Totally ridiculous. He had the freedom that say
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 10:17 PM
Mar 2012

what he said, even if it was mean-spirited and cruel.

 

crunch60

(1,412 posts)
41. .Gloria Allred is a very successful high profile attorney, so the GOP'ers hate her.
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 10:27 PM
Mar 2012

Successful liberal women like Allred, Martha even Ellen, take a lot of shit from the public because they are tough successful unapologetic women. I hope Ms. Allred can get this done for the sake of all women, but most importantly for Ms. Fluke.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
52. Ms. Fluke should sue Rush in CIVIL court, for slander per se.
Fri Mar 9, 2012, 05:25 PM
Mar 2012

There are four categories of slander per se. One of them is 'imputation of unchastity in a woman'.
Damages are presumed but they have to be proven as to the amount.

There is no requirement that she be a public figure, or that she be defamed with "actual malice" as in a defamation case. That is a different cause of action. These are torts, which are civil wrongs.

She could also file misdemeanor charges against him under the Florida statute.
Just because it is a 19th century law does not mean it cannot be used now.

In contracts and real property there are valid cases in the case books that go back to the 1300s in England.

And yes, I am a former court reporter and non-practicing lawyer, but I do not play one on TV like Spader.



onenote

(42,702 posts)
54. You have some things right and others wrong.
Fri Mar 9, 2012, 05:57 PM
Mar 2012

First, slander and libel per se are subcategories of libel and slander. You are right that where libel and/or slander per se is alleged, it is not necessary to prove that the plaintiff incurred actual damages. However, one still must prove all the other elements of slander/libel, including that the alleged defamatory statement was false and would be understood by a "reasonable" listener/reader to be a statement of act that is defamatory. (Thus, for example, if someone writes that a lobbyist who accepts money for trying to influence legislation is a "whore", its not going to be defamatory because no reasonable person would hear that as a statement alleging, as a matter of fact, that the lobbyist provides sex in exchange for money or other consideration). Second, the actual malice standard absolutely does apply if the person claiming to have been defamed is a "public figure." One can be a public figure for all purposes or for limited purposes. Under the applicable SCOTUS precedent, a very strong argument can be made that,for the limited purpose of the subject of contraception policy and the related subject of her testifying before a Congressional panel), Ms. Fluke is a public figure. Finally, in some jurisdictions the plaintiff bears the burden of proving that the statement was false (not merely that the defendant did not know if it was true or false); in other jurisdictions the burden is on the defendant to prove, as an affirmative defense, that the statement was true. Either way, a plaintiff alleging to have been the victim of a statement that is per se defamatory still opens up himself/herself to questioning regarding the truthfulness or falsity of the alleged defamation. In the case where the libelous statement is calling the plaintiff a "slut" and a "prostitute" this could mean delving into the plaintiff's sex life and history and asking for the names of sex partners so that they can be questioned as to whether the plaintiff ever received financial or other consideration in return for sex. The plaintiff's lawyers will try to cut off such questioning as harassment, but a court is likely to allow the defense some leeway since without such questioning, the defendant can claim on appeal that they were denied the opportunity to mount a defense.

It is because of the above that defamation actions are generally regarded as hard cases. Many settle because the risks for both sides are significant. With respect to limpy, despite the risk of financial harm if he loses a case brought by Ms. Fluke (including the risk of punitive damages that could be very substantial), he is unlikely to settle, in my opinion. First, he undoubtedly has insurance. Second, if he settles, he will feel like he has opened the door to more lawsuits from people he attacks on the air. If he fights, those people may be less likely to sue. And if he fights and wins, the payoff for him is huge in that he can run around claiming HE was the victim in all of this. Ms.Fluke already has bested limpy in the court of public opinion -- most people believe she has been unfairly and maliciously attacked by Limpy. If she pursues a court case and loses, the public's perception of what happened may be altered in a way that minimizes what she has been through.

I am a lawyer, with 35 years experience. If folks want further substantiation of any of the legal points made above, one option is to google "defamation" (or "libel and slander&quot and "model jury instructions." Many states now post online their model jury instructions, which typically set out the elements needed to be proven, the burden of proof, and annotations to relevant cases.

Finally, I would hope to hell that Ms. Fluke doesn't seek to pursue a criminal action against Limpy under that idiotic Florida criminal defamation statute. Given the circumstances, the last thing needed is for a strong, independent, modern woman like Ms Fluke to look for relief to a 19th century statute that draws a gender based distinction based on the outdated notion that women, moreso than men, are fragile beings that need the state's criminal justice system to protect them from offending words.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
57. I would plead that nobody who listens to Rush is reasonable.
Sat Mar 10, 2012, 02:04 AM
Mar 2012

Just trying to come up with a new theory.



 

karnac

(564 posts)
55. what allred is saying is we should incarcerate those NOT in a protected class.
Fri Mar 9, 2012, 08:32 PM
Mar 2012

when they MERELY offend someone in a protected class.

Considering women are already in the majority and are the majority graduating from college..

considering that hispanics are going to be the major voting age species in the US in 15 years or less..

You better watch your mouth WHITE BOY or we are coming after you. kiss our shiny butts if you know what's good for you!



 

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
59. Take that back right now. We must shit on the First Amendment
Sat Mar 10, 2012, 04:18 AM
Mar 2012

or the Rushbots, misogynists and racists win!


*Edited to add: disclaimer - this does not mock the possibility and righteousness of a ruinous slander lawsuit. Only criminal prosecutions for slandering women.

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