How Many DUers Advocating Delaying Obamacare Are Themselves Currently Uninsured?

[stopbush]

I'm guessing ZERO, because if you were uninsured - as I and my family are - you would be counting the days for Obamacare to kick in and hoping against hope that nothing horrible happens to you health wise before 1/1/14.

My healthcare coverage today consists of having my fingers crossed. Delay implementation of Obamacare? Go fuck yourself.

[Curmudgeoness]

1. Are there DUers who advocate delaying Obamacare?

I guess that I have been staying away from certain subjects lately, but I cannot imagine what their justification would be.

[joshcryer]

3. nope

DU is unified on this

[Nye Bevan]

7. Yep.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023746400

[Curmudgeoness]

10. Wow. I keep seeing things here

that I never thought I would see. Not from fellow Democrats.

At least he/she didn't have support on this.

[joshcryer]

20. zero recs

[pinboy3niner]

36. Hard to imagine any of our own here reccing THAT

We here may have some differences on contentious issues, but we are NOT surrender monkeys. And you can take that to the bank.

Hope you are well, my friend.

[joshcryer]

45. Yeah, I'm actually enjoying the unity.

Not sure I'd ever say it but it's a nice breath of fresh air. I know it won't last, though.

Hope we're well. Finally cooling the 'eff off weather-wise.

[Cha]

50. Yo tambien, Josh. nm

[Scuba]

32. Shameful position for any Democrat/Liberal/Progressive to take.

[busterbrown]

39. Wait......What site am I on?

[NYC_SKP]

8. No, not specifically, but people have said that they'd just take the penalty.

And that they can pay cash for services, they don't seem to feel the need to contribute to support the system for all of us.

I have not, however, read specifically that anyone supports the delay.

[sobenji]

12. If they choose to ignore the mandate

Make their medical expenses not dischargeable in a bankruptcy.

Of course if you have insurance and have to declare bankruptcy, those would still be dischargeable.

[Fumesucker]

14. Exactly, fuck anyone who has to choose food or rent over insurance

Who do they think they are?

[sobenji]

18. Yeah, that sounded harsh after I read it

I guess I meant if it was deliberately not purchased because you were being an irresponsible dick. Hard to prove that in bankruptcy court though.

[Yo_Mama]

22. A lot of people won't get the subsidies and won't get Medicaid and

won't get insurance through an employer.

I think you are being a little narrow-minded here.

My sense of DU is that if there is any support for delay, it is for delaying the mandate instead of delaying the exchanges. There's quite a difference. Most people do want insurance, but now that there are so many gaps in the law, it does seem odd to enforce the individual insurance mandate when the employer side isn't being enforced at all.

[Curmudgeoness]

13. Although I cannot imagine being without health insurance,

I can say that taking the penalty is not the same as taking the deal to delay it. I think it is foolhardy to be without insurance, especially when it will finally be affordable. I have scraped and suffered just to have insurance during times before COBRA was available, and have paid heavily for COBRA, but this is one thing that I did not want to be without....even though I have probably spend much more on the insurance than I have used in care. But you never know what is ahead for you.

I also think that the penalties are too low, which makes it seem like an attractive alternative. But it is possible that these same people will change their minds after more details and prices are available to them.

[fadedrose]

2. K & R

[Thinkingabout]

4. I know you ask for the uninsured, I happen to be on Medicare, been insured during my life but I

DO NOT want the ACA delayed. I am very happy for my friends and family to have the opportunity to have health insurance. The more phases I see happening I get more excited. Perhaps on day we might see single payer like many of the advanced countries already have. BTW, ACA also the Medicare group also.

[Fumesucker]

5. I don't think I've seen that particular opinion on the DU

But then I haven't been here all that much the last few days and things move fast.

Not that there aren't plenty of posters not all that thrilled with the ACA but delaying it doesn't seem to be a popular option here.

[appleannie1]

6. I have not seen any people wanting to wait a year. I know I can't wait until it fully goes into

effect.

[richmwill]

9. Even my Republican father likes it...

Last week he found out that his medical costs will go down $250 a month (he's diabetic and is on a lot of medication) due to it, so now he's all for it and saying it's a great program. Even yelled at Ted Cruz on the local newscast the other day when footage of Ted's speech was shown lol.

[Tx4obama]

15. Wow - that is great! Thanks for sharing with us :)

[steve2470]

16. awesome !!!!!! nt

[TBF]

54. That is awesome!

Ted Cruz believes in one thing - Ted Cruz. I hope this whole issue takes him down and sends him packing.

[BlueToTheBone]

11. I hear you!

I have a friend who is dire need of medical care and I'm counting the days for him. I am so grateful that I reached medicare age. I have had 2 serious problems that would have been catastrophic with out it.

[etherealtruth]

17. I am insured ... I do NOT support delaying Obama care

I have been where you are ... it is frightening (an understatement). I would prefer a single payer ystem, but I will accept this in the interim

[MrsKirkley]

19. I don't want Obamacare delayed, I just want it improved.

Too many full-time low income workers and their families are only offered high deductible, high annual maximum policies. The law says they're ineligible for subsidies because they have access to insurance through their employers. They're expected to continue paying for employer based health insurance they can't afford to use and I think that's wrong. These people and their families need subsidies too and don't deserve to be left out.

[gordianot]

21. I do need the ACA but I still support its implementation in October 2013.

Also, I will only get a small amount of Social Security with my Teachers retirement yet I strongly oppose Chained CPI.

[kestrel91316]

23. Best thing I've read on DU in ages:

".....Delay implementation of Obamacare? Go fuck yourself....."

I'm one of them. No insurance for several years, so no medical care at all for several years. I've lived in fear that a tiny precancerous skin lesion or slightly elevated blood pressure could make me permanently uninsurable.

[donco]

24. Subsidy Calculator Premium Assistance for Coverage in Exchanges

1. Select a State= Missouri

2. Enter income as % of income=1

3. Does employer coverage available?=No

4. Number of people in family=1

5. Number of adults (21 and older) enrolling in exchange coverage=1 Adult

5. Age? 46. Use tobacco? NO

6. Results


Household income in 2014:……………… $115

Unsubsidized annual health insurance premium in 2014:……………… $3,803

Maximum % of income you have to pay for the non-tobacco premium, if eligible for a subsidy:….None

Amount you pay for the premium:………….. $3,803 per year.

WTF.



http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/#state=mo&zip=63129&income-type=percent&income=1&employer-coverage=0&people=1&adult-count=1&adults%5B0%5D%5Bage%5D=46&adults%5B0%5D%5Btobacco%5D=0&child-count=0&child-tobacco=0

[MrsKirkley]

26. Options for anyone in that situation

1. Overestimate income to 100% of federal poverty level. I think only those who underestimate their incomes have to pay anything back.

2. If you live in a state that's not expanding Medicaid (like Missouri), try to find a way to move to a state that is.

[mwooldri]

41. And you change that % of poverty to 103%....

I think the calculator is off a bit.. i tried using the percentages but it didn't work so i entered based on the DHHS 100% poverty level
for 1 adult as being $11,490 - upped it to $11,800... that's about 103%

Household income in 2014:103% of poverty level
Unsubsidized annual health insurance premium in 2014:$3,803
Maximum % of income you have to pay for the non-tobacco premium, if eligible for a subsidy:2%
Amount you pay for the premium:$236 per year
(which equals 2% of your household income and covers 6% of the overall premium)
You could receive a government tax credit subsidy of up to:$3,567
(which covers 94% of the overall premium)

Bottom line - if you're in a state that doesn't expand Medicaid, make more than 100% of poverty to get affordable health insurance. It's Bulls---- but it is what it is. If you're truly poor, the State isn't pro-life at all really...

[duffyduff]

25. I am and I believe it is a terrible law. You will soon understand why.

When you can't afford to pay the outrageous premiums and deductibles for substandard insurance, you will agree with me. It needs to be completely redone.

This was nothing but corporate welfare. This was not passed for our benefit but for the benefit of the health insurance industry that wrote the law.

[Warpy]

27. Medicare was equally awful at first

as it soon became clear. It was amended multiple times to turn it into the program that nitwit teabaggers want to keep the gummint's hands off.

Of course it's a bad plan, all those Blue Dogs and Republican dirtbags saw to it. However, most of those Blue Dogs are gone and this attempt at economic terrorism will likely get the teabaggers thrown out on their traitorous butts.

[truedelphi]

29. In my County in Northern Calif., we can choose between three different

providers, that are on the California exchange.

One is Kaiser Permanente, an HMO that caused this household a medical bankruptcy, so we can't use it in good faith. But the BIGGER ISSUE with them - there is not a Kaiser clinic or hospital inside the boundary of my county, so how and why did Kaiser's program end up being offered for residents of this county?

The second is Anthem, who had the monopoly of County approved dentistry for this County's indigent clients. And they made it virtually impossible to resolve billing - the doctor's staff being told the patient must take care of the paperwork, while the patient was told that the doctor's staff must do it. What a huge run around! A thinking person wonders if that is what will happen to people that choose Anthem for their medical health insurer.

So we will go with the third choice. We are both hoping it all works out, but rather pessimistic about it.

[MrsKirkley]

31. The law can be fixed if Democrats regain majority in the House.

Duffyduff, if your income is low enough that you can't afford high premiums and deductibles, you should qualify for subsidies on the exchange that will help pay for both. If you don't qualify for subsidies because of access to high deductible health insurance through an employer, working two part-time jobs instead of one full-time may help you qualify. As long as Republicans control the House, trying to re-write the law to make it better than it is now is impossible. I understand your frustration. I'm frustrated too. My husband is dropping from full-time to part-time so I will qualify for a subsidized policy on the exchange so I can afford to see my cancer doctor again. Despite my frustration at Obamacare's imperfections, I don't want the law repealed because of all the people it is helping and because repeal would bring back pre-existing conditions and lifetime limits.

[lostincalifornia]

34. If you cannot afford the premiums, the ACA says you can obtain an exclusion from it under

the following conditions, WITHOUT a penalty or fine.

If 8% of your income is more than the monthly premium for the lowest plan, you can obtain a waiver.

In other words:

"If the lowest cost bronze is greater than 8% of a person's income, the consumer is eligible for an exception certificate from the individual mandate or may purchase minimum coverage plan."

The income level for subsidies is the following:

Single: less than 45960
Two people: less than 62040

etc.

The income determination is based on your AGI

There will also be a questionnaire which IS NOT posted with the Calculators which will take other factors into consideration.

In addition, you can request enrollment assistance to get the full facts without obligation

The premiums may become difficult for the demographic > than 50 years old and exceeding the subsidy income level. In most of those cases, they are exempt from penalties or participation because 8% of their income exceeds the minimum coverage plan.

There is also no restriction in obtaining coverage from insurance companies outside of the exchanges.

As to your situation, you are probably in the demographic where it is either too expensive or not to your advantage.

However, the majority of people will fit into those income levels, and receive the subsidies, be covered by an employer, or are young where the premium is much lower.

You, and for that matter, myself are in that other situation, and does not appear to represent the majority that will benefit from it

It is perfectly understandable your frustration if the ACA does not help you, however, under the political climate at that time, that was the only thing that could have been done, since there were enough Democrats at the time who would NOT have gone for a public option, and yes nothing would have been passed. At least the foot is in the door.

Will it be tweaked for those who fall outside the demographic for subsidies or evolve into Medicare for all? No one knows, but it will be better than what we had for most.

[gopiscrap]

58. Welcome to DU

[burnsei sensei]

40. I will soon understand this:

When you can't afford to pay the outrageous premiums and deductibles for substandard insurance, you will agree with me. It needs to be completely redone.

Then single-payer will become a more viable option.
Because the policy of the ACA was not designed to confront the issue of cost directly, the ACA may be painful to implement.
Single payer is the solution.
It is only a matter of time.
No delay.
None.

[lostincalifornia]

59. Of course single payer is the way to go, but I would suggest that it would take much longer to reach

That goal without having a foot in the door with something.

Being in debt because a person cannot afford the 6000 dollar deductible is still better than being in debt because you owe hundreds of thousands of dollars without a maximum deductible

One has a greater probability of bankruptcy than the other

[ZRT2209]

44. everyone at DU is aware this is a peak time for troll attacks re Obamacare

[hedda_foil]

46. WTF are you talking about?

When you can't afford to pay the outrageous premiums and deductibles for substandard insurance, you will agree with me. It needs to be completely redone.

This is the current situation for millions of Americans who will be able (FINALLY) to get excellent health coverage for far, far less than is currently the case ...if they are able even to qualify for the crappy overpriced garbage that passes for individual he a path insurance now. If you think the prices on the exchanges, which are then generously subsidized for most people, are anything resembling what you describe, you have never actually had to deal with anything but fully or mostly employer paid coverage, which you will, no doubt, continue to enjoy.

Cut the crap or get educated on this subject rather than spewing right wing memes.

[lumberjack_jeff]

52. It it completely asinine to say that Obamacare sucks because max deductibles are too high.

The deductibles for the uninsured without Obamacare are infinitely large. There is no ceiling.

"I can't afford $4000!" Yes, actually you can, and that's what's pissing you off. Few middle income people will go bankrupt from a single $4000 incident.

What you can't afford is $250k for one serious hospitalization. I think there are a lot of people who would look at the quarter-million bill and feel relief because since there's no practical way to pay the bill, the actual cost is zero.

[SheilaT]

28. I'm insured and I don't think it should be delayed.

As for those who point out it's not perfect, of course you're right. But that's not a reason to delay it any longer. Keep in mind that it's been FOUR YEARS since the ACA was passed, and at the time the truly liberal progressives among us thought this delay was a terrible idea. Further delay would be even worse.

[Travis_0004]

30. I'm going to be uninsured, but I don't want it delayed

My high deductible plan is going away Dec 31st, and the new plan is just too expensive. My employers insurance is technically affordable, but more than I want to spend. I thinking since I'm healthy I'm going to drop my insurance and just hope for the best. I'll just pay the penalty for a few years, and once the penalty gets too high, I'll sign up again.

[ZRT2209]

43. not even catastrophic coverage?

good thing the Republicans made it illegal to declare bankruptcy for medical bills. If you get sick or injured -there goes your house, your car, your savings. YOU LOSE EVERYTHING if you have no insurance coverage.

[TBF]

55. Sadly I think many young folks will approach it that way

but I can see your logic. I am hoping these exchanges will work and generate competition. It actually has worked for electricity down here in Texas. Now that we can choose our company and lock in our low rates w/yearly contracts the prices keep dropping. I didn't pay over $400/month for electric for our decent sized home this summer - a few years ago I had bills nearly double that (our summer is the expensive time w/high cost - our bills stay under $200 in the winter).

[Travis_0004]

57. I will look into catastrophic coverage, so I'm undecided how I'm going to go.

If the ACA launches on January 1st, then maybe I can sign up for catastrophic coverage, since I'll be 29 (for 3 more days). If that is the case, I wonder if I'll be allowed to keep just catastrophic coverage for the year, or they will make me change on my 30th birthday, so I still have some research to do.

[madville]

33. I think many people are skeptical

The difference between no insurance and a policy that your can't afford to actually use is negligible. I would be broke with no insurance or a policy with a $10,000 a year family deductible.

[lostincalifornia]

38. True, however, being 10000 dollars in debt is better than being hundreds of thousands of dollars in

debt.

In addition, there is a MAXIMUM out of pocket expense.

[Alkene]

35. Complete agreement, stopbush n/t

[Phlem]

37. Fuck that.

We've been struggling to make ends meet for a while and this will totally help, our purchased insurance is twice the price of the exchange roughly. That means more cash for maybe a family movie night or so or a short trip some where local.

Yea, I'm signing up ASAP!

-p

[ZRT2209]

42. tell these people to just hold in their cancer for another year

[Rex]

47. Do not negotiate with the GOP terrorists.

30 years of economic terrorism has done enough damage and destruction to America. I DARE anyone to disagree with me.

[6000eliot]

48. If you think they want to delay it in order to fix it,

then you are as stupid as they think you are. This is ONLY about providing political cover for themselves for shutting down the federal government. Let the babies have their tantrum, and then VOTE THE FUCKERS OUT OF OFFICE IN 2014!

[freshwest]

49. +1 and good luck with the family's health. This GOP says, we'll fund 99% but not Obamacare.

Which has already been debated, voted on, passed in spite of death threats, signed into law, ruled Consitutional and also settled as doing the will of the people in the 2012 elections.

The GOP has no right to hold all of us hostage for the 'crime' of daring to want our government to do the right thing and save lives. This is just another of their attacks on the poor. They are the death panel, the cullers of the herd, the face of fascism. They want us to have no recourse but to beg them and their bosses for all of the necessities of life, on their terms.

People need to remember in November of 2014 and 2016 the low esteem in which they hold our lives and futures. Here are a few links to what we're dealing with here, and why, although I won't get ACA coverage and have neither private or free insurance, I support it because these people are going to kill us off and I want you to have coverage.

There are several threads:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023750451

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023750491

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3750090

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023750081

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023743940

As far as a certain thread titled 'Obama should take the deal' or something, I didn't click on it, if that is what you are referrring to in this thread. Because the GOP is playing a game, it's not just about Obamacare and there is no negotiating with them.

If Obama did 'take the deal' that would hurt tens of millions, he'd be called spjneless and caving, most likely. But he never was, and he isn't now.

I can't fathom why DUers would want to leave tens of millions without insurance of any kind, when the GOP is offering no alternatives in return. And from their track record, they woud just as soon we died off..

As far as UHC, Obamacare is the first step. For some this is exactly the same as UHC. They will be covered on on Medicaid without any sort of payment. These are the poorest amongst us, isn't that who we care about here?

This shut down isn't just about the ACA, it's about destroying democratic governance. They want to negate our votes, they want to subjugate us to unelected rulers. it's a coup in slow motion.

No matter what happens, on Tuesday your family gets the chance that so many others have now. Best wishes to you.

[VanillaRhapsody]

51. there are DU'rs advocating that for real?

no freaking way they are democrats. Thats unbelievable.

[TBF]

53. We need Medicare for all -

but at least ACA makes some improvement.

My own family is high-income and we pay dearly for our insurance (partly because we subsidize our employees - our own premiums are about $2500/month). I am chronically ill and appreciate that insurance. And you should have an opportunity for health care as well - NOW - not in a year. ACA is far from perfect but there are plenty of folks will die without care in the coming year if it is postponed.

I urge the president to stand tough and not give in on this.

[awoke_in_2003]

56. Probably not many...

but the troll to sound ratio is high.