Robert Parry: Do Syrian Rebels Have Sarin?

[marmar]

from Consortium News:


Do Syrian Rebels Have Sarin?
September 15, 2013

Exclusive: A U.S.-Russian agreement calls for the Syrian government to disclose and dispose of its chemical weapons, but that doesn’t resolve the mystery of who was behind the Aug. 21 attack outside Damascus – or the question of whether Syrian rebels have their own stores of CW, reports Robert Parry.

By Robert Parry


As the Syrian government agrees to relinquish its chemical weapons, questions remain about whether some elements of the fractious Syrian rebel forces have obtained their own CW. There have been scattered news reports to that effect although rebel leaders deny the accounts.

Yet, one of the many questions left unanswered by the sketchy U.S. “Government Assessment” on the Aug. 21 chemical weapons attack outside Damascus is whether U.S. intelligence analysts are among those who believe the rebels possess some stockpiles of chemical weapons.

The four-page white paper, issued on Aug. 30, danced around the question of whether the rebels possess CW by focusing only on whether the rebels were responsible for the attack. “We assess that the scenario in which the opposition executed the attack on August 21 is highly unlikely,” the white paper said. “Our intelligence sources in the Damascus area did not detect any indications in the days prior to the attack that opposition affiliates were planning to use chemical weapons.”

The dog-not-barking in that phrasing is the U.S. government’s silence on whether some rebels have these weapons. After all, why would the U.S. intelligence agencies employ this narrow phrasing discounting the likelihood of a rebel attack on this one occasion if they could simply assert that the rebel forces could not have been responsible because they have no chemical weapons, period? ......................(more)

The complete piece is at: http://consortiumnews.com/2013/09/15/do-syrian-rebels-have-sarin/

[pscot]

1. Apparently they do

In a classified document just obtained by WND, the U.S. military confirms that sarin was confiscated earlier this year from members of the Jabhat al-Nusra Front, the most influential of the rebel Islamists fighting in Syria.

The document says sarin from al-Qaida in Iraq made its way into Turkey and that while some was seized, more could have been used in an attack last March on civilians and Syrian military soldiers in Aleppo.

The document, classified Secret/Noforn – “Not for foreign distribution” – came from the U.S. intelligence community’s National Ground Intelligence Center, or NGIC, and was made available to WND Tuesday.

It revealed that AQI had produced a “bench-scale” form of sarin in Iraq and then transferred it to Turkey.

A U.S. military source said there were a number of interrogations as well as some clan reports as part of what the document said were “50 general indicators to monitor progress and characterize the state of the ANF/AQI-associated Sarin chemical warfare agent developing effort.”



http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/09/classified-u-s-military-document-syrian-rebels-do-have-chemical-weapons.html

[creeksneakers2]

17. Is WND

World Net Daily? That's a very unreliable source. I followed the links to the website and it didn't look like a credible source.

[jakeXT]

2. Turkish prosecutors indict Syrian rebels for seeking chemical weapons (10 tons of chemicals in May)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023666551

[KoKo]

9. Recommend.

[creeksneakers2]

18. That story has been called into question too

[geek tragedy]

3. Robert Parry is quite the hack. Check out his sourcing:

Former Defense Department official F. Michael Maloof wrote on Sept. 11 for the right-wing World Net Daily’s web site that WND had obtained a classified U.S. document in which “the U.S. military confirms that sarin was confiscated earlier this year from members of the Jabhat al-Nusra Front, the most influential of the rebel Islamists fighting in Syria.”

Though Maloof has a checkered reputation for accuracy – having been part of President George W. Bush’s propaganda campaign for invading Iraq – he cites specific information from what he describes as a document classified “Secret/Noforn” produced by the U.S. intelligence community’s National Ground Intelligence Center, or NGIC.

Someone who helped sell the Iraq war, now writing for Birthercentral.com is a legit source, how?

[marmar]

4. "Someone who helped sell the Iraq war, now writing for Birthercentral.com is a legit source, how?"

You clearly know nothing about Parry or Consortium News. That statement is downright embarrassing.

[geek tragedy]

5. His primary source was a writer for World Nuts Daily who used to work for Bush.

Read my post again--it's a direct quote of his article.

[Uncle Joe]

10. Did these reporters and writers work for Bush as well?

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/09/02/syr2-s02.html

MPN published an article with interviews with opposition fighters on the ground in Ghouta. Its two authors are Jordanian freelance journalist Yahya Ababneh and Dale Gavlak, a longtime correspondent for the Associated Press, based in Amman, Jordan for more than two decades, who currently reports for AP and National Public Radio, as well as MPN.

Those interviewed included Abu Abdel-Moneim, whose son was among 13 opposition fighters killed in a tunnel used to store what were apparently chemical weapons.

Abdel-Moneim said the weapons were supplied by a Saudi named Abu Ayesha, who leads a rebel battalion. He described some of the weapons as having a “tube-like structure,” while others were like a “huge gas bottle.” They were stored in tunnels, while the opposition fighters themselves slept in nearby mosques and private homes.

(snip)

An opposition leader in Ghouta told MPN that the Al Nusra Front, one of the main Islamic fundamentalist militias operating in Syria, had custody of the chemical weapons. “They do not share secret information. They merely used some ordinary rebels to carry and operate this material,” he said. “We were very curious about these arms. And unfortunately, some of the fighters handled the weapons improperly and set off the explosions.”

Their contention is that it was an accident but there are many reports linking Al Qaedia to the rebels as well which I believe increases the possibility of sabotage.

Al Qaueda would love nothing more than to draw two of its' primary enemies the U.S. and Russia in to a larger war over Syria.

[geek tragedy]

12. Rockets that were used are not in rebels' arsenal.

Keep digging.

[Uncle Joe]

14. How do you figure that? The rebels had taken over great parts of Syria including

cities and airfields it doesn't take a great leap in logic to believe they captured Syrian munitions as well.

Al Qaueda could've easily laid its' hands on Syrian munitions and set them off.

[geek tragedy]

15. Ask human rights watch

http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/09/10/syria-government-likely-culprit-chemical-attack

Human Rights Watch analyzed publicly posted YouTube videos from the attacked areas as well as higher-resolution images of weapon remnants provided by a local activist in Eastern Ghouta. Two separate surface-to-surface rocket systems believed to be associated with the delivery of chemical agents were identified. The first type of rocket, found at the site of the Eastern Ghouta attacks, is a 330mm rocket that appears to have a warhead designed to be loaded with and deliver a large payload of liquid chemical agent. The second type, found in the Western Ghouta attack, is a Soviet-produced 140mm rocket that, according to reference guides, has the ability to be armed with one of three possible warheads, including one specifically designed to carry and deliver 2.2 kilograms of Sarin.

The Syrian government has denied responsibility for the attacks and has blamed opposition groups, but has presented no credible evidence to back up its claims. Human Rights Watch and arms experts monitoring the use of weapons in Syria have not documented Syrian opposition forces to be in the possession of the 140mm and 330mm rockets used in the attack or their associated launchers.

But, your speculation trumps that, I guess.

[Uncle Joe]

16. None of that is concrete contradiction to what I posted

Do they have video of actual rocket launches?

If the rebels had captured rockets, they didn't need to fire them, just explode them.

Human Rights Watch analyzed publicly posted YouTube videos from the attacked areas as well as higher-resolution images of weapon remnants provided by a local activist in Eastern Ghouta. Two separate surface-to-surface rocket systems believed to be associated with the delivery of chemical agents were identified. The first type of rocket, found at the site of the Eastern Ghouta attacks, is a 330mm rocket that appears to have a warhead designed to be loaded with and deliver a large payload of liquid chemical agent. The second type, found in the Western Ghouta attack, is a Soviet-produced 140mm rocket that, according to reference guides, has the ability to be armed with one of three possible warheads, including one specifically designed to carry and deliver 2.2 kilograms of Sarin.

The Syrian government has denied responsibility for the attacks and has blamed opposition groups, but has presented no credible evidence to back up its claims. Human Rights Watch and arms experts monitoring the use of weapons in Syria have not documented Syrian opposition forces to be in the possession of the 140mm and 330mm rockets used in the attack or their associated launchers.

"Not documented" just means they have no information confirming at the time.

During a civil war particularly in an autocratic society such as Syria it would be extremely difficult to know for certain what weapons or weapon systems may have changed hands during combat.

Furthermore here is a paragraph which you didn't post from your link.

While Human Rights Watch was unable to go to Ghouta to collect weapon remnants, environmental samples, and physiological samples to test for the chemical agent, it has sought technical advice from an expert on the detection and effects of chemical warfare agents. The expert reviewed accounts from local residents, the clinical signs and symptoms described by doctors, and many of the videos that were taken of the victims of the August 21 attacks.

[geek tragedy]

19. Your conspiracy theory has been debunked.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014595978

It was the government. Period. Any doubt raised is unreasonable.

[Uncle Joe]

20. Apparently so because of this word.

(d)The team was also able to examine impacted and exploded surface-to-surface rockets that are capable of carrying a chemical payload. These were carefully measured, photographed and sampled. A majority of the rockets or rocket fragments recovered were found to be carrying sarin.

That's all I was looking for some form of evidence proving the rockets were launched and not exploded or sabotaged.

But I had already found the answer before your reply from joshcryer and seeing the U.N. Report.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3677997

8. Can they tell for certain that those rockets were launched and not just exploded/sabotaged? n/t

9. I would assume so, given the impact crater and damage to the munition.

I'm not sure how you would fake the impactor result which Brown Moses has gone into at length. These weapons hit the ground face down and once they do the gas is released. Every image I've seen is consistent with a metallic munition falling from a very great height.

What's interesting about this report is that Brown Moses, after reading the UN report, has now been able to rule out completely that the rebels have used or have had access to those munitions, they've never been observed before in the oppositions hands.

I believe with the UN report and Brown Moses' conclusions we're reaching beyond a reasonable doubt territory.

[karynnj]

6. If you read the comments of Lavrov and Kerry,

they do not make assumptions - the call is to identify any chemical weapons they might have and eliminate them as well.

[jazzimov]

7. Apparently, Assad doesn't think they do

or else I doubt he would have been so quick to offer to give his up.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. You might want to read this

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/09/classified-u-s-military-document-syrian-rebels-do-have-chemical-weapons.html

[KoKo]

11. Recommend.

[KoKo]

13. Parry's Conclusion: Should US Demand Rebels Surrender their CWS?

From Robert Parry's Article in the OP Link:

"Given these various accounts – and the Syrian government’s acceptance of Russian demands that it surrender its chemical weapons – the United States may want to make a similar demand of the rebels. At least, the Obama administration might clarify what its own intelligence files contain about rebel possession of chemical weapons."

The Question Is ...how would they DEMAND the Rebels (so many of them with differing loyalties) give them up?