Sun Sep 8, 2013, 06:41 AM
bemildred (90,061 posts)
In chess, if you have no good options, and still must move, it's called Zugzwang.
And it means you lose. And losing always "looks weak".
Sometimes doing "nothing" is the best thing you can do, it's like "waiting" a bit. In fact, in my experience, most of the time, it's not time yet, there are no useful things you can do yet, so you wait. Not everything can be fixed, and of those things which can be fixed, often it's still the case that YOU can't fix them. People who try to threaten you or anger you or disgust you to get you to do something when you don't want to are salesmen, merchants, and they are not your friends. The very fact they are so vehement to get you to do something, this person who does not know you from Adam, and willing to jerk your chain emotionally to get at you, tells you to ignore what they say, they have an agenda, and it's not your well-being and autonomy. Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zugzwang
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38 replies, 10118 views
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Author | Time | Post |
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bemildred | Sep 2013 | OP |
oberliner | Sep 2013 | #1 | |
bemildred | Sep 2013 | #3 | |
oberliner | Sep 2013 | #4 | |
bemildred | Sep 2013 | #5 | |
xchrom | Sep 2013 | #2 | |
David__77 | Sep 2013 | #6 | |
jtuck004 | Sep 2013 | #7 | |
bemildred | Sep 2013 | #8 | |
jtuck004 | Sep 2013 | #11 | |
TheMadMonk | Sep 2013 | #29 | |
Turborama | Sep 2013 | #9 | |
bemildred | Sep 2013 | #10 | |
Turborama | Sep 2013 | #12 | |
bemildred | Sep 2013 | #13 | |
Turborama | Sep 2013 | #15 | |
delrem | Sep 2013 | #27 | |
Threedifferentones | Sep 2013 | #14 | |
GoneFishin | Sep 2013 | #16 | |
bemildred | Sep 2013 | #22 | |
mac56 | Sep 2013 | #17 | |
bemildred | Sep 2013 | #23 | |
mac56 | Sep 2013 | #28 | |
delrem | Sep 2013 | #18 | |
bemildred | Sep 2013 | #24 | |
stevenleser | Sep 2013 | #19 | |
bemildred | Sep 2013 | #25 | |
leveymg | Sep 2013 | #35 | |
KG | Sep 2013 | #20 | |
heaven05 | Sep 2013 | #26 | |
heaven05 | Sep 2013 | #21 | |
FarCenter | Sep 2013 | #30 | |
bemildred | Sep 2013 | #32 | |
tridim | Sep 2013 | #31 | |
cthulu2016 | Sep 2013 | #36 | |
GoneFishin | Sep 2013 | #38 | |
hunter | Sep 2013 | #33 | |
bemildred | Sep 2013 | #34 | |
leftstreet | Sep 2013 | #37 |
Response to bemildred (Original post)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 06:45 AM
oberliner (58,724 posts)
1. Great word!
Learn something new every day around here.
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Response to oberliner (Reply #1)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 06:50 AM
bemildred (90,061 posts)
3. Once before I used it here, in 2004:
Response to bemildred (Reply #3)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 06:51 AM
oberliner (58,724 posts)
4. And quite correctly
Sadly, there were no good moves in Iraq at that time either. As is evidenced, in part, by the current situation.
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Response to oberliner (Reply #4)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 06:58 AM
bemildred (90,061 posts)
5. It's so rare that I google myself. nt
Response to bemildred (Original post)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 07:19 AM
David__77 (20,482 posts)
6. That is one I'll have to remember.
Thank you.
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Response to bemildred (Original post)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 07:28 AM
jtuck004 (15,882 posts)
7. Makes me think the best move might have been not to take a seat at the game in the 1st place. n/t
Response to jtuck004 (Reply #7)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 07:40 AM
bemildred (90,061 posts)
8. If the game is rigged, for one instance. nt
Response to jtuck004 (Reply #7)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 09:57 AM
TheMadMonk (6,187 posts)
29. The option to stand up and walk away always exists. /nt
Response to bemildred (Original post)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 07:53 AM
Turborama (22,109 posts)
9. VERY pertinent, thanks for sharing!
One thing I was a bit confused by, though. Why would they tell you to ignore what they say?
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Response to Turborama (Reply #9)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 08:01 AM
bemildred (90,061 posts)
10. They would not be doing that.
They would be using various emotional levers to get you to agree with them and do what they want.
Rape, nuns, baby incubators, yellow cake, WMDs, religion, race, anything to make you stop thinking and get upset and irrational instead. |
Response to bemildred (Reply #10)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 08:15 AM
Turborama (22,109 posts)
12. I'd think so, too
That's why I got confused by it being in here... (maybe I read the context wrong?)
"The very fact they are so vehement to get you to do something, this person who does not know you from Adam, and willing to jerk your chain emotionally to get at you, tells you to ignore what they say, they have an agenda, and it's not your well-being and autonomy." |
Response to Turborama (Reply #12)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 08:19 AM
bemildred (90,061 posts)
13. Right: "The very fact they are so vehement to get you to do something, ..., tells you ..."
Perhaps I should restucture the sentence, it's a bad sentence really, I tend to be oblivious to such things as I read lots of academic prose.
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Response to bemildred (Reply #13)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 08:27 AM
Turborama (22,109 posts)
15. Might be something to do with the format I'm reading it from
I'm scrolling down using a tiny BlackBerry screen, so it could could have something to do with that.
![]() Thanks for the clarification. |
Response to bemildred (Reply #13)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 09:52 AM
delrem (9,688 posts)
27. Oh no. It's clear as a well-formed bell.
Response to bemildred (Original post)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 08:26 AM
Threedifferentones (1,070 posts)
14. So right now we are seeing Zugzwang in four dimensions, right?
Response to bemildred (Original post)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 08:50 AM
GoneFishin (5,217 posts)
16. +1. It makes perfect sense to me, but I have had weasels come at me from
many angles.
"The very fact they are so vehement to get you to do something ... " (or anything) to me means you are in a strong position and they want to provoke you into second guessing yourself and changing your stance, literally or intellectually, to make you more vulnerable to their ploys. |
Response to GoneFishin (Reply #16)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 09:42 AM
bemildred (90,061 posts)
22. Right, it's an attack, an attempt to subvert your self-possession. nt
Response to bemildred (Original post)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 08:59 AM
mac56 (17,331 posts)
17. Brilliant.
Sharing (with attribution, of course).
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Response to mac56 (Reply #17)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 09:43 AM
bemildred (90,061 posts)
23. It's free, just don't try to sell it. nt
Response to bemildred (Reply #23)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 09:54 AM
mac56 (17,331 posts)
28. No worries there!
Response to bemildred (Original post)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 09:08 AM
delrem (9,688 posts)
18. A totally brilliant post.
Please, .. save it.
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Response to delrem (Reply #18)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 09:44 AM
bemildred (90,061 posts)
24. OK, in the journal. nt
Response to bemildred (Original post)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 09:20 AM
stevenleser (32,886 posts)
19. The only winning move for the US in Syria is not to play
?t=3m13s
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Response to stevenleser (Reply #19)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 09:49 AM
bemildred (90,061 posts)
25. Not to play at war, there are other things that we could do, "win-win" kind of things.
Like sending food and necessities and taking people in, you don't even have to take sides, if fact it's safer if you don't. Of course, we won't get much in return, but we'll feel better about ourselves, and that can be worth a lot.
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Response to stevenleser (Reply #19)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 12:11 PM
leveymg (36,418 posts)
35. I'm glad to see you've also come to that conclusion.
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Response to bemildred (Original post)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 09:20 AM
KG (28,385 posts)
20. N-th dimensional Zugzwang! I get it! oh, he's a clever one, that prez.
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Response to KG (Reply #20)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 09:51 AM
heaven05 (18,124 posts)
26. I really did hope
nth dimensional chess was being played in our leader's first four years. Not so. The forces of our profit driven economy get to any president either easily as in the case of most RW rethug politicians or surreptitiously threaten a POTUS person who might have wanted to provide 'hope and change' into coming around to their point of view. Oswald was not 'the lone shooter'. I can't wait to see the change in Dr. Warren IF she makes to being POTUS. Just surmising, no concrete proof of any goddamn thing.
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Response to bemildred (Original post)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 09:41 AM
heaven05 (18,124 posts)
21. yeah true
this is when a chess player topples his king.
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Response to bemildred (Original post)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 10:00 AM
FarCenter (19,429 posts)
30. Setting a deadline is the worst thing you can do in a negotiation.
Response to FarCenter (Reply #30)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 10:14 AM
bemildred (90,061 posts)
32. +1. It just gives them a weapon to use against you.
And that is why they like to hurry you along, so you don't think it over, and so they can get on to the next sucker.
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Response to bemildred (Original post)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 10:11 AM
tridim (45,358 posts)
31. The President has never lost a chess game.
Not even close, it's a rout every time.
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Response to tridim (Reply #31)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 12:12 PM
cthulu2016 (10,960 posts)
36. By virtue of having never played one
Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #36)
GoneFishin This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to bemildred (Original post)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 10:15 AM
hunter (32,747 posts)
33. Recommended.
.
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Response to bemildred (Original post)
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 12:14 PM
leftstreet (32,661 posts)
37. DURec
Interesting!
Thanks for posting this |