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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFederal government looking to punish man who taught people how to beat polygraph tests
In a test case aimed at deterring other such polygraph instructors, prosecutors have urged the judge to sentence Chad Dixon to one year and nine months in prison, citing a career of criminal deceit that included teaching the techniques to child molesters, intelligence employees and law enforcement applicants.
Authorities assert Dixon crossed the line between free speech protected under the First Amendment and criminal conduct when he told some of his clients to conceal what he taught them while undergoing government polygraphs.
Properly understood, his crimes encompass inviting total strangers into a scheme to defraud and obstruct, and joining in their criminal enterprises, prosecutors wrote. Dixon adopted a mercenary-like attitude towards the nations border security and the security of the nations secrets. He also acted with callous disregard for the most vulnerable in society our children. . . . Dixons misconduct was purposeful, dangerous and it requires punishment.
The decision to prosecute Dixon and the attempt to imprison him has been cited as an example of the Obama administrations overzealousness in detecting and deterring potential insider threats, a catchall phrase meant to describe employees who might become spies, leak to the news media, commit crimes or become corrupted in some way.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/08/30/200876/feds-want-prison-time-in-unprecedented.html#.UiJaVz-tjD8
Polygraphs are junk science. Their results are not admissible in any court of law in this nation. Controlled scientific studies routinely document their inaccuracies. Why the feds are so determined to prosecute people who instruct others on how to beat them is kind of odd considering such information is readily available on the internet, and the results either way have no effect in a trial.
gopiscrap
(23,766 posts)tough shit if the guy can beat the poly....he has right under this great capitalistic nation to earn a living and ply his trade.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)as part of their screen process for Intel positions. While they aren't admissible in court they can still be beneficial when deciding if people are being deceitful.
nebenaube
(3,496 posts)It doesn't work.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)is directly across the hall from me, I think I have it on good authority that they still use them.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Under that reasoning, Sarah Palin who can see Russia or the former Soviet Union from her front porch is an expert on Russia.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)We work 6 ft from each other & have for over 3 yrs. I know why they are given, who they are given to, & who gives them. All of our departments work very close to each other & each department has a purpose in which we must have at least some understanding of, anyone who has worked for any entity that has several different departments would understand that.
Your Sarah Palin logic is a fail & moronic, it's good to know you keep her so close to your heart.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)And one more, though I can't remember off the top of my head (Energy, maybe?)
Despite the name "full-scope", there's only a strictly limited set of questions they can ask (mostly about mishandling of classified information; they aren't allowed, for example, to ask you about drug use on the poly, though that seems to keep happening to people regardless).
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)because of the large amount of Intel ppl we have. It is nothing like people assume they are, where they can ask any random questions. But they are solely used when dealing with TS issues. They are also completely recorded, not a situation I would ever subject myself to. They can keep their TS.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)utter and complete bullshit, it doesn't transmogrify nor smell any better.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)Our Brigade alone has two full time polygraphers that screen Intel folks from all branches. You don't have to like it but it doesn't make it any less true.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)There are British and American jails and plush Moscow hotels full of people who passed their security clearance tests"
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)encounter so I would not doubt that statement in the least. The ones I have dealt with over the last 3 years are arrogant & think they are so smart they can get away with anything. Yet somehow we always bust them doing the dumbest shit.
It's painful & was a huge culture shock.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)the very best place to sell complete and utter bullshit.
Fortunately, the "all volunteer" U.S. military has effectively skimmed off a good portion of the dimmest among us and made them that much easier to spot.
There's no welfare like corporate welfare, and the military is the world's largest trough at which to feed. Do you have any idea how much these full-time polygraphers are being paid to ply their trade? GI or contractors?
BTW, incoherency is not defined by your ability, or lack thereof, to understand what was written or said.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)began to give waivers to everyone no matter their background or history because we were worn so thin by being strung between two countries.
As far as pay goes as Soldiers we are all paid the same based on time in grade and time in service, unless we have hazardous or special duty pay, so don't try to pawn the bs line of Soldiers making some kind of mega bucks because it's bullshit. Now contractors is a completely different story.
Polygraphs are ran by DA Civilians who are also paid on a pay schedule which you won't get into the 6 figure incomes either and that's who runs the polygraphs for the military.
You may want to brush up on how we as Soldiers get paid before you start spouting off nonsense.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)military adventurism for far longer than this nation has existed, I assure you that I am more than conversant with military/government pay grades both here and abroad.
I take it from your reply that the answer to the first question is no. Your answer to the second is vague, but seems to indicate that these polygraphers are civilian contractors, who I am sure are not very well paid at all, but I am also fairly certain are better paid than you are. What I am completely sure of is that the company for which they work is massively overpaid and the executives of that/those companies are well in the top decile, salary-wise.
You also seem to have decided that I am of the opinion that our service people are paid too much, that is completely wrong. Anyone dedicated or foolish enough to risk their life signing up for the meat grinder, deserves way more than the assholes in Washington will ever agree to give them.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)of our military then you wouldn't have made the statement regarding the ridiculous wages Soldiers supposedly made. I told you polygrahers are DA Civilians or DOD Civilians not contractors. Therefore they are still paid on a gov scale & not banking by any definition of the word.
I think we are talking across each other & saying somewhat the same thing. I wasn't trying to argue.
Bottom line was DA Civilians still do polygraphs on our troops for their TS Clearance. Why I don't know. I stuck with my secret bc I didn't want to deal with all the bullshit & would have a nervous breakdown just being strapped into that chair
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)...for now (Bwahhahaha!)
(That last bit was a joke)
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)The .gov needs to abandon this woo.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)by trade just had the misfortune to be assigned to one of their units. I feel for the people that go in there, they come out looking beat the hell up.
It always takes the military decades to catch up to the rest of the world.
meow2u3
(24,774 posts)But, AFAIK, they're useful as anxiety detectors.
Personally, I don't think polygraphs are junk science when used as diagnostic tools for anxiety disorders, but they are junk science when used as lie detectors. Sociopaths can beat polygraphs while they lie like carpets, whereas nervous Nellies and Neds can be taken for liars when they're telling the truth.
Link Speed
(650 posts)Just shift into neutral and control your heartbeat. Do not look at the test administrator.
I have taken three polygraph tests and made shit up just to see if I could get away with it. Never got caught.
meow2u3
(24,774 posts)Too anxious.
Link Speed
(650 posts)Some people cannot tell the truth and pass.
That's why they are utterly useless.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Test beaten.
Orrex
(63,247 posts)Lesson learned!
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,350 posts)... when questioned by police.
Go after the ACLU too!
The nerve, making the police do their jobs!
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)There's a reason they're not admissible as evidence.
This prosecutor's really overreaching.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)According to prosecutors, Dixon taught seven federal law enforcement applicants and two government contractors, including one who had a security clearance with an unnamed intelligence agency.
However, the most incriminating evidence appears to have come from Dixons interactions with two undercover agents. Dixon, for instance, advised one undercover agent posing as the brother of a violent Mexican drug trafficker to withhold details during a polygraph for a Customs and Border Protection job, prosecutors said.
I would probably reference him as a distant relative, Dixon told the undercover agent. If they ask questions about him, if it does come up, just say, Look, I dont really know what hes into.
markiv
(1,489 posts)anyone see that Seinfeld episode?
devils chaplain
(602 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Polygraphs are complete crap.
That's a professional opinion.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)They're junk science, plain and simple.
Billy Love
(117 posts)It's a matter of practice.
You have to find a focus point on the wall and just relax, and answer their question.