Went to the grocery store today, and I've come up with one inescapable conclusion...

[Archae]

"Organic" is a scam.

Just one example: Milk.
The "organic" milk was $3.00 more per gallon than regular.

The fruits and vegetables were identical, "organic" or not.
Only difference: "Organic" was 2, sometimes 3 times the price.

[hlthe2b]

1. I think there is not enough assurance that organic is meaningful...

Especially for milk. Now that most major brand milk claims to be Growth Hormone and antibiotic free, I have trouble justifying the price difference for organic. I try to buy the brand that comes from dairies closest to me, however.

Eggs is a bit different. I really would like to buy eggs from hens that are not caged and that are likewise not "treated." But there are dozens of descriptors for that including some that are really meaningless.

Ag has one hell of a strong lobby, it seems.

[lacrew]

16. I used to buy Cage Free eggs

Until I surfed youtube, and found that the 'Cage Free' conditions are just as bad as the caged.

[truedelphi]

2. People who buy milk in No California can feel okay about

Regular milk, if it is Clover. They have a good policy toward their cows, and their regular is better than "Horizon's" organic.

Oh and as far as a good value for your money, stay out of "Whole Paycheck." They sell over-priced everything, with people thinking if they pay four bucks for an ear of corn, that it is not GM. But often it is. (And I am always amazed at people who think if they buy a carrot cake at WHolePaycheck, that it is somehow healthy. Really? Sugar and fat dense articles of food with MSG are still sugar and fat dense.)

And once spring hits, use the farmer's markets. Most FM's now are aware of the fact that people do work. SO they are open on Saturdays.

"Buy and eat local."

[Archae]

5. I do go to our local Farmer's Markets from about May until November.

I love the fruit they have there, especially strawberries and rasberries.

[Harmony Blue]

8. You can buy non organics and organics directly from a farmer before the pasteurization process

The exception is milk, but the produce purchased this way must be consumed fairly quickly.

[dana_b]

10. yes - my daughter even called Clover

to ask about the treatment of the animals and they were really nice and forthright with her. They spoke for about 15 minutes.

The only thing I like about Whole Foods are some of their vegetarian packaged products are cheaper than I can find in the "regular" grocery stores. Otherwise I get veggies,fruits from my local market.

[XemaSab]

17. Humboldt Creamery also seems to treat their cows well

STAY AWAY from Land O' Lakes. Their dairies look vile.

[Sisaruus]

20. I try to visit farmer's markets when I travel.

I used to visit art museums and independent book stores when I traveled. I still do but now I also try to find the local farmer's markets. It's fun to try local produce and bring some home. Last trip, I flew cross-country with a suitcase full of swiss chard and citrus fruit. I live in New England and both my kids now live in Southern California. In the winter months, it's a real treat to get fresh, local fruits and vegetables when I visit them.

[FSogol]

3. Since there is no Federal regulation on what organic means, you are correct. n/t

[no_hypocrisy]

4. Beg to differ with you please.

Organic milk has no growth hormones and antibiotics in it.

Organic fruits and vegetables don't have the poisonous pesticides on them and aren't genetically modified.

I gladly pay more for safer products.

[Archae]

7. Except you don't know if they are "organic."

There are no concrete rules as to what's "organic" and what's not.

And judging from how the price is 2-3 times or more that of regular food, that shows me big-time red flag. *Scam*

[izquierdista]

15. I know what is "organic".

If it comes from my back yard, I know what was used while it was growing. If it comes from elsewhere, I read the label with a healthy dose of skepticism. For dinner tonight, I will have an "organic" turnip and a potato of questionable origin.

[gratuitous]

19. Heh, heh, heh

izquierdista (motto: no, I'm not going to change my handle to something easier to type, so lump it, gringo!) doesn't know that every night I sneak into his back yard and use . . . other things that he never knows went into the growing of his produce.

Me = Evil

[Harmony Blue]

6. It is clear most are confused

There are no regulations as to what can be called "natural" or "all natural". Organic foods, and if they are labeled as such are regulated, and have the green USDA label. Furthermore, there are two categories organics fall under: Pasteurized, or non pasteurized. Legally, even most organic foods sold must be pasteurized, but there are some produce that is not necessary.

[Archae]

9. You want *REAL* organic?

Best example I can think of is fish.

The fish we (my family) catch from the lake my Mom has her place on tastes light-years ahead of the stuff like "Mrs Pauls" or "Van DeCamps."

Mostly bluegills, some perch smaller bass.

Fileted, rolled in flour and fried until golden brown in an iron skillet, yumyumyum...

[L. Coyote]

12. Fish concentrate mercury readily

and they are no more organic than the water they swim in. You need to know everything about the drainage area, including the minerals that leach into the water, human waste and pesticide applications, PCB contamination, much more.

[cally]

11. There are several lists around that list the foods that you should buy organic

For many products, it doesn't matter that much but I'm very concerned about strawberries. If I eat them, I try to only buy and eat organic. I buy from our local farmer's market and I try to get there right before closing. That's when the prices go down at my market.

Here's a link to one of the lists that I've seen:

http://www.thedailygreen.com/healthy-eating/eat-safe/Dirty-Dozen-Foods#fbIndex1

[moriah]

23. Awww, blueberries too?

I love me some blueberres.

[Archae]

13. My Mom said in her garden she was organic.

She only used cow manure as fertilizer.

[HereSince1628]

14. I see the same thing in collard prices around 'Tosa, but I am suspicious that could be classist

not so much the pricing, but actually only carrying organic collards rather than just plain old collard...

Collard is one of those leafy greens where bug damage is often controlled with much pesticide, so it's easy to see how organic would be desirable for people avoiding potential exposures to chemical toxins...

Here in a suburb that borders Milwaukee organic collards at the 'little' Sendik's grocery are over $3.50/lb. At a little Chinese grocery about a mile and one-half north of the Sendiks it's often as cheap as $0.85/lb.

I asked about it, but never got a satisfactory answer. In general the store has great produce at cheap prices ( such as $0.49 /lb banana--when on sale down to $0.19/lb) and usually $1.20/lb for on stem tomatoes). It seems that the 'consumer demographic' that the store targets looks exactly like the neighborhood... which also doesn't include many folks whose meals frequently include collard and who are accustomed to it being a 'budget' food.

The good news is the managers don't complain at all when I buy just two of those expensive organic leaves pulled from a big bunch.

[miyazaki]

18. Just figured this out? n/t

[niyad]

21. I don't know where you shop, but where I do, the situations you mentioned do not apply.

my organic half-and-half (store brand) is $0.40 less than regular. the organic milk regularly hits manager markdowns (which is when I buy it, and it stays fresh much longer than non-organic) yes, some of the fruits and veggies are a bit more expensive, but not by much. organic bananas are 5 cents/pound more than non-organic. strawberries, raspberries and blackberries are frequently on special for less than non-organic. and the list goes on.

and, when I do go to whole paycheck, there are items that are actually less than they are at my supermarkets.

a lot depends on how one shops, and where.

oh, and our farmers' markets only go from june-october (with the veggies and fruits not coming in until late july--a very short growing season)

[Liquorice]

22. Well maybe it is when it comes to milk, I don't know

because I don't drink it, but when it comes to fruits and vegetables, there is a big difference in taste and quality. You reap what you sow, and when you sow with pesticides and chemical fertilizers in depleted soil, the end result is a sad product with no vibrancy or taste.