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Tue Jul 30, 2013, 11:55 PM

What Manning Revealed - Read This & Tell Me Just WHO Is Our Government Keeping Safe?

What did WikiLeaks reveal?

PFC Bradley Manning is a US Army intelligence specialist who is accused of releasing classified information to WikiLeaks, an organization that he allegedly understood would release portions of the information to news organizations and ultimately to the public.

The "Iraq War Logs" published by WikiLeaks revealed that thousands of reports of prisoner abuse and torture had been filed against the Iraqi Security Forces. Medical evidence detailed how prisoners had been whipped with heavy cables across the feet, hung from ceiling hooks, suffered holes being bored into their legs with electric drills, urinated upon, and sexually assaulted.


U.S. defense contractors were brought under much tighter supervision after leaked diplomatic cables revealed that they had been complicit in child trafficking activities. DynCorp -- a powerful defense contracting firm that claims almost $2 billion per year in revenue from U.S. tax dollars -- threw a party for Afghan security recruits featuring boys purchased from child traffickers for entertainment.


The Guantanamo Files describe how detainees were arrested based on what the New York Times referred to as highly subjective evidence. For example, some poor farmers were captured after they were found wearing a common watch or a jacket that was the same as those also worn by Al Queda operatives. How quickly innocent prisoners were released was heavily dependent on their country of origin.

Even though the Bush and Obama Administrations maintained publicly that there was no official count of civilian casualties, the Iraq and Afghanistan War Logs showed that this claim was false. Between 2004 and 2009, the U.S. government counted a total of 109,000 deaths in Iraq, with 66,081 classified as non-combatants. This means that for every Iraqi death that is classified as a combatant, two innocent men, women or children are also killed.


-U.S. Military officials withheld information about the indiscriminate killing of Reuters journalists and innocent Iraqi civilians.

-The State Department backed corporate opposition to a Haitian minimum wage law.

-The U.S. Government had long been faking its public support for Tunisian President Ben Ali.

-Known Egyptian torturers received training from the FBI in Quantico, Virginia.

-The State Department authorized the theft of the UN Secretary General's DNA.

-The Obama Administration allowed Yemen's President to cover up a secret U.S. drone bombing campaign.



MORE:
http://www.bradleymanning.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/WikiLeaks2.pdf
http://www.bradleymanning.org/news/what-did-wikileaks-reveal



Meanwhile, still free to roam the streets, take their book tours and collect their 5- and 6-digit speaking fees, is the cabal of scorpions that rationalized torture which they claimed was not torture, secretly rendered people off the streets of U.S. allies and secretly transported them to secret prisons in nations ruled by dictatorial regimes, fabricated evidence to take us into Iraq, where thousands of Americans and tens if not hundreds of thousands of Iraqis died in the conflict, conjured up a hell-hole at Guantánamo Bay, a place the attorneys created to be jurisdictionless—not quite the U.S., not quite Cuba—and thus free from both American and international law.

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Arrow 173 replies Author Time Post
Reply What Manning Revealed - Read This & Tell Me Just WHO Is Our Government Keeping Safe? (Original post)
kpete Jul 2013 OP
think Jul 2013 #1
Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #2
Zorra Jul 2013 #5
cstanleytech Jul 2013 #11
freedom fighter jh Jul 2013 #66
cstanleytech Jul 2013 #80
freedom fighter jh Jul 2013 #82
cstanleytech Jul 2013 #84
dflprincess Jul 2013 #128
cstanleytech Jul 2013 #133
truth2power Jul 2013 #96
bvar22 Jul 2013 #106
cstanleytech Jul 2013 #123
Marr Jul 2013 #119
MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #159
cstanleytech Aug 2013 #170
MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #171
cstanleytech Aug 2013 #172
NealK Jul 2013 #21
DevonRex Jul 2013 #28
Zorra Jul 2013 #86
Vanje Jul 2013 #112
Vanje Jul 2013 #113
DevonRex Jul 2013 #124
Marr Jul 2013 #122
JDPriestly Jul 2013 #30
malaise Jul 2013 #47
RC Jul 2013 #99
Pelican Jul 2013 #54
truebluegreen Jul 2013 #72
NuclearDem Jul 2013 #75
Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #90
Divine Discontent Jul 2013 #97
Pelican Jul 2013 #125
Vanje Jul 2013 #136
NuclearDem Jul 2013 #150
Vanje Jul 2013 #111
Ghost in the Machine Jul 2013 #116
Pelican Jul 2013 #129
Vanje Jul 2013 #146
JustAnotherGen Aug 2013 #167
avebury Jul 2013 #69
Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #89
Th1onein Jul 2013 #8
think Jul 2013 #23
JDPriestly Jul 2013 #31
blackspade Jul 2013 #121
Fire Walk With Me Jul 2013 #50
Post removed Jul 2013 #57
MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #161
sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #58
Gregorian Jul 2013 #68
Bradical79 Jul 2013 #78
Hissyspit Jul 2013 #93
grahamhgreen Jul 2013 #109
blackspade Jul 2013 #118
MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #160
AnotherDreamWeaver Jul 2013 #3
rhett o rick Jul 2013 #4
kenny blankenship Jul 2013 #7
KoKo Jul 2013 #56
rhett o rick Jul 2013 #59
DJ13 Jul 2013 #62
SomethingFishy Jul 2013 #77
BrotherIvan Jul 2013 #100
Th1onein Jul 2013 #6
Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #17
JDPriestly Jul 2013 #32
Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #39
chimpymustgo Jul 2013 #46
NealK Jul 2013 #20
OnyxCollie Jul 2013 #24
MADem Jul 2013 #34
rusty fender Jul 2013 #74
MADem Jul 2013 #104
rusty fender Aug 2013 #157
MADem Aug 2013 #158
pscot Jul 2013 #9
think Jul 2013 #27
JDPriestly Jul 2013 #33
woo me with science Jul 2013 #36
Agony Jul 2013 #45
kpete Jul 2013 #53
MrMickeysMom Aug 2013 #162
Divernan Jul 2013 #10
cstanleytech Jul 2013 #12
Divernan Jul 2013 #14
Hydra Jul 2013 #15
cstanleytech Jul 2013 #16
Scootaloo Jul 2013 #22
cstanleytech Jul 2013 #29
questionseverything Jul 2013 #85
cstanleytech Jul 2013 #88
questionseverything Aug 2013 #168
cstanleytech Aug 2013 #169
Hydra Jul 2013 #67
cstanleytech Jul 2013 #83
RC Jul 2013 #101
Vanje Jul 2013 #114
cstanleytech Jul 2013 #132
Vanje Jul 2013 #138
cstanleytech Jul 2013 #154
OnyxCollie Jul 2013 #26
Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #60
OnyxCollie Jul 2013 #61
Vanje Jul 2013 #115
JDPriestly Jul 2013 #35
Fire Walk With Me Jul 2013 #52
MisterP Jul 2013 #79
Bradical79 Jul 2013 #81
Phlem Jul 2013 #13
DeSwiss Jul 2013 #18
canoeist52 Jul 2013 #91
Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #19
MotherPetrie Jul 2013 #25
woo me with science Jul 2013 #37
99th_Monkey Jul 2013 #38
Smarmie Doofus Jul 2013 #40
Scuba Jul 2013 #41
B Calm Jul 2013 #42
kentuck Jul 2013 #43
Berlum Jul 2013 #44
randome Jul 2013 #48
RC Jul 2013 #102
randome Jul 2013 #103
RC Jul 2013 #105
randome Jul 2013 #107
Marr Jul 2013 #127
randome Jul 2013 #131
Vanje Jul 2013 #117
randome Jul 2013 #120
Vanje Jul 2013 #126
randome Jul 2013 #130
Vanje Jul 2013 #141
randome Jul 2013 #144
Marr Jul 2013 #135
Vanje Jul 2013 #145
dflprincess Jul 2013 #134
randome Jul 2013 #137
dflprincess Jul 2013 #143
randome Jul 2013 #148
Vanje Jul 2013 #153
Vanje Jul 2013 #151
Vanje Jul 2013 #140
randome Jul 2013 #147
blackspade Jul 2013 #139
randome Jul 2013 #142
blackspade Aug 2013 #164
randome Aug 2013 #165
blackspade Aug 2013 #166
RetroLounge Jul 2013 #149
HiPointDem Jul 2013 #49
DirkGently Jul 2013 #51
kpete Jul 2013 #55
DirkGently Jul 2013 #63
daleanime Jul 2013 #64
KoKo Jul 2013 #65
Civilization2 Jul 2013 #70
Martin Eden Jul 2013 #71
Angelonthesidelines Jul 2013 #73
Dorn Jul 2013 #76
MrMickeysMom Jul 2013 #152
Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #87
truedelphi Jul 2013 #92
catchnrelease Jul 2013 #108
Rex Jul 2013 #94
truth2power Jul 2013 #95
Harmony Blue Jul 2013 #98
Vanje Jul 2013 #110
Agony Aug 2013 #163
AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #155
blkmusclmachine Jul 2013 #156
GiaGiovanni Aug 2013 #173

Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:02 AM

1. K&R

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:14 AM

2. He was found guilty today. He will serve the remainder of his life in prison for it.

So, it's a little late for wishing for a different outcome now.

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:31 AM

5. Anyone who is pleased about that is piece of shit fascist scumbag. nt

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Response to Zorra (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:10 AM

11. I dont think many are *pleased* with it.

I know I am not *pleased* but nor am I saddened as the facts are what they are and the facts are that he did break the law and really it could have gone far worse for him if the charge for espionage had held up.
Now the real question is what will they sentence him to Zorra? I dont personally believe a long sentence is warranted but nor is a slap on the wrist warranted since he didnt have to break the law to get the information out so I would say 5 years maybe 15 max with time served.
Its severe but not overly severe.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #11)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:59 AM

66. He didn't have to break the law to get the info out?

How else could he have gotten it out?

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Response to freedom fighter jh (Reply #66)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:48 PM

80. If I recall correctly he could have just reported it to a member of congress

(or members) and or to the inspector generals office anything he believed was a crime and he legally would have had protection atleast legally.
Of course thats not to say the military wouldnt retaliate by say transferring him to a post say in the arctic or not promote him but legally they couldnt have charged him with a crime I believe.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #80)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:58 PM

82. I guess it depends on what you mean by "get the info out."

Sure he could have reported it to Congress or the IG, but that's not to say that it would then have been public.

And the military might have done much worse than transfer him to the Arctic.

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Response to freedom fighter jh (Reply #82)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 03:05 PM

84. Problem is we will never know now how congress or the IG would have

handled the situtation since Manning decide it was ok to break the law and provide all that information to wikileaks.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #84)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:29 PM

128. Seriously?

We never would have heard a word of it and Bradley Manning would have been sent to Iraq and Afghanistan where he would have become the tragic victim of "friendly fire".

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Response to dflprincess (Reply #128)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:34 PM

133. Or he might have been promoted or he might have resigned

and ran for congress or he might have won a 600 million dollar powerball jackpot!!

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #80)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 05:12 PM

96. "Report it to a member of Congress". Pardon me...





Whew!!!! That was fun!

now , I think I'm going to be sick.

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Response to truth2power (Reply #96)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 08:42 PM

106. Yeah. Go Tell the BOSS that you found him doing something sneaky.

He'll get Right. On. It.

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Response to truth2power (Reply #96)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:19 PM

123. True getting congress to act would be difficult but there is the other option of

the inspector generals office as well.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #80)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:10 PM

119. LOL.

 

You can't be serious.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #11)

Thu Aug 1, 2013, 07:06 AM

159. How do you feel about other *laws* when they are broken?

When the laws on the books were corrupted on how the savings and loan industry could turn into a casino that is no longer interested in our savings or conditions of who gets a loan, how does that make you feel?

I'd say we treat the seriousness of what was revealed by Manning by not torturing him after solitary confinement and barring of any legal representative. If this guy was due his day in court, it surely passed long ago, under military *law*.

It's already been "severe" and the due process for any law has been steadily blown out of the water.

No, I'm not *pleased* with many things, but I'm particularly incensed by how laws over who's a traitor and what we do to them in our name has been shown to Bradley Manning... because his revealed documents showed something we should be ashamed of.

So, we should be glad for his due process? I'd say we're all getting screwed with any processed applied to the whistle blowing per Pfc Manning.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #170)

Thu Aug 1, 2013, 06:14 PM

171. guess so!

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Response to MrMickeysMom (Reply #171)

Thu Aug 1, 2013, 06:27 PM

172. Well dont get me wrong.

I only think some of our laws are absurd, others make sense such as handling of classified documents which is how they were able to prosecute Manning.
Now the process of how they decide what to classify and why they classify it does need a major overhaul because some of the things are absurd that they are putting under "classified information".

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Response to Zorra (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:53 AM

21. Well said. nt

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Response to Zorra (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:19 AM

28. Zorra, stop that. He didn't say he was pleased. He simply stated the fact. Enough.

You know better. And you ARE better. I know that for a fact.

You have strong opinions and you're angry. But this poster isn't the cause of it. He's just a convenient punching bag at the moment. He's also a person.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #28)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 03:11 PM

86. I will continue to speak out against fascists and fascism whenever, and wherever.

We simply cannot continue to appease fascists and fascism.

I didn't say he was pleased. I made a general, factual statement.

If he was pleased, I still stand by what I said.

It's true, I am extremely distressed about anyone who expresses quasi-nazi satisfaction about someone being convicted and going to prison for doing the right thing. I detest fascists, fascism, and nazis.

It's still fascism when we do it.

Nuremberg Principle IV
Main article: Superior Orders
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_principles

Principle IV states: "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him".

This principle could be paraphrased as follows: "It is not an acceptable excuse to say 'I was just following my superior's orders'".

Principle VI

Principle VI states,

"The crimes hereinafter set out are punishable as crimes under international law:

(a) Crimes against peace:

(i) Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances;

(ii) Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under (i).

(b) War crimes:

Violations of the laws or customs of war which include, but are not limited to, murder, ill-treatment or deportation to slave labor or for any other purpose of civilian population of or in occupied territory; murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war or persons on the Seas, killing of hostages, plunder of public or private property, wanton destruction of cities, towns, or villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity.

(c) Crimes against humanity:

Murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation and other inhumane acts done against any civilian population, or persecutions on political, racial, or religious grounds, when such acts are done or such persecutions are carried on in execution of or in connection with any crime against peace or any war crime."

Principle VII

Principle VII states, "Complicity in the commission of a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity as set forth in Principle VI is a crime under international law."





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Response to DevonRex (Reply #28)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 09:45 PM

112. Do you have any opinion on the information thant Manning released?

Any opinion at all?

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #28)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 09:48 PM

113. "He's also a person"

Prove it.

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Response to Vanje (Reply #113)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:19 PM

124. Prove a DU member is a human being? You really said that.

Good day.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #28)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:18 PM

122. Save the concilliatory bullshit, please.

 

That poster has been consistent in his swaggering taunts on this and similar topics, and Zorra's remark was quite on the mark.

Personally, I'd expand the definition of 'fascist scumbag' to include people who defend the people who are openly pleased about this as well, but that's just me.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:27 AM

30. It could have been worse. It isn't right. But we can right it.

Manning should be set free. But it will take time.

The danger for Manning is that our government's thugs illegally punish, perhaps kill him, in prison.

We need to change the laws to protect whistleblowers in the CIA, NSA, and all other security and every agency in the government including all of the military.

I understand that Sen. Grassley is bringing in a bill that will do that. I think a Democrat should have spoken up first. It's shameful that it is a Republican and not a Democrat doing it.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #30)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:28 AM

47. +1,000 n/t

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #30)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:10 PM

99. You mean there is still a difference between the 1½ flavors of Congress critters?

 

I think a Democrat should have spoken up first. It's shameful that it is a Republican and not a Democrat doing it.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 09:21 AM

54. I'm pleased as punch...

 

Fuck Bradley Manning...

He is the typical disgruntled employee who failed miserably at his work and tried to strike back in the only way he knew how. Any claims of "whistleblower" are bullshit.

Seems he bit off a bit more than he can chew and I hope he thinks about it every day.

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Response to Pelican (Reply #54)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:53 PM

72. Project much?

 

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Response to Pelican (Reply #54)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:11 PM

75. You really missed the point didn't you?

 

Manning, whatever his motive, state of mind, or personal history, revealed extraordinary abuses by our government against innocent people around the world. Abuses which were kept secret and done in our name.

So fuck the people who actually committed the offenses. It's a disgrace Manning went on trial while they got off scot free.

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Response to Pelican (Reply #54)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 03:23 PM

90. I hope you're embarrassed about your post.

If not, you should be.

That post was sociopathic.

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Response to Pelican (Reply #54)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 06:24 PM

97. Highly disturbing. This IS Democratic Underground. So you know, in case you've forgotten.

pfft!

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Response to Divine Discontent (Reply #97)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:23 PM

125. Right...

 

I share the position of President Obama, the leader of the Democratic Party, that people shouldn't abuse their security clearances, that diplomats should be able to converse privately and that if abuses are discovered the whistleblower channels should be at least tried before just throwing everything you can get your hands on into the wind in an attempt to hurt the military and the US government.

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Response to Pelican (Reply #125)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:36 PM

136. What do you think about the crimes, and cover ups

that Manning exposed?

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Response to Pelican (Reply #125)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:13 PM

150. Diplomats were conversing privately to cover up child rape in Afghanistan

 

Push corporate interests for Monsanto in Europe, destroy minimum wage laws in Central America, and keep an out-of-control drone program in Yemen hush-hush so the public wouldn't know about it.

That shit needed to be exposed, and if you think you're justified in defending it, you're not a progressive.

There are plenty of soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines here who took the same oath you did, and yet they overwhelmingly seem grateful for Manning's actions in exposing these abuses.

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Response to Pelican (Reply #54)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 09:42 PM

111. What do you think about the crimes he exposed?

Seriously.
Are you unmoved?

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Response to Pelican (Reply #54)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 09:59 PM

116. Ok, you can go crawl back into the "Cave", or the other "underground" you crawled out of...

... and tell Frank Solich, or SarasotaRepub(or his wife, SaintLouieWoman) that you failed on your mission, and may have to "burn a mole", even though you've made it to over 1000 posts with it.

Only a hardcore True Believer that all Government action is good, and anyone exposing their lies, crimes, etc. is bad, and that person gets punished while the real perps walk free and continue doing what they were/are doing. It's been my observation that 99.9% of those "Hardcore True Believers" are also hardcore rightwing hacks or TEA Party members, not that there's much difference between the two.

Yeah, I have an obsession with sites that have an obsession with us. Who knows, it may be possible that I have moles there, too! Your writing style is familiar to me.

Have a nice evening

Ghost

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Response to Ghost in the Machine (Reply #116)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:30 PM

129. WTF are you talking about?

 

I don't know Frank Solich or any of the other people you are talking about.

I'm passionate about the Manning case because I have respect for the oath that I took. I also know the exact type of Soldier he is/was.

That whiny, pathetic, always in trouble, never can get it right loser who takes up the time that competent Soldiers could use. Normally they just limp along until their first tour is up and go home to daddy to talk about what a badass they were over in "the shit"."

Manning just managed to take crash and burn to the next level and he deserves everything he got.

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Response to Pelican (Reply #129)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:53 PM

146. but no opinion about the crimes and cover-ups he exposed?

You are unreal.

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Response to Vanje (Reply #146)

Thu Aug 1, 2013, 12:45 PM

167. oh no

He is definitely 'real' - just not really a Democratic/Lib/Progressive. Look at join date and where most of his posts are. Just keep up pressure on this one. Keep saying the same thing over and over again.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:44 PM

69. Agreed!

I am sick and tired of the Government going after the whistleblowers and little people while they turn a blind eye on the crimes of 1) the previous administration, 2) the Wall Streeters who tanked our economy, and the Corporations and 1%. It hardly matters that we have a Democrat in the WH and the majority in Congress because the Republicans are determined to finish destroying what is left of this country, both nationally and in the states. The powers to be want to squash out all attempts of the people to speak out about what is going on and shining the light of day on the crimes and attrocities that occur now on a daily basis. This country is rotting within from the top to the bottom and I see no inidication that it will change in my lifetime.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 03:19 PM

89. +1000

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:32 AM

8. Is that okay with you?

Are you good with it? Do you support it?

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:06 AM

23. Justice or persecution? Manning has already been in jail 3 years.

 

The following was posted here earlier (Bold added for emphasis):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023375524



Michael Moore: What Bradley Manning's Sentence Will Tell Us About Our Military Justice System
Today Bradley Manning was convicted on 20 of 22 counts, including violating the Espionage Act, releasing classified information and disobeying orders. That's the bad news. The good news is he was found not guilty on the charge of "aiding the enemy." That's 'cause who he was aiding was us, the American people. And we're not the enemy. Right?

Manning now faces a potential maximum sentence of 136 years in jail.
When his sentence is announced tomorrow, we'll all get a good idea of how seriously the U.S. military takes different crimes. When you hear about how long Manning – now 25 years old – will be in prison, compare it to sentences received by other soldiers:

Col. Thomas M. Pappas, the senior military intelligence officer at Abu Ghraib and the senior officer present the night of the murder of Iraqi prisoner Manadel al-Jamadi, received no jail time. But he was reprimanded and fined $8,000. (Pappas was heard to say about al-Jamadi, "I'm not going down for this alone."

Sgt. Sabrina Harman, the woman famously seen giving a thumbs-up next to al-Jamadi's body and in another photo smiling next to naked, hooded Iraqis stacked on each other in Abu Ghraib, was sentenced to six months for maltreating detainees.

Spec. Armin Cruz was sentenced to eight months for abusing Iraqis at Abu Ghraib and covering up the abuse.

Spc. Steven Ribordy was sentenced to eight months for being accessory to the murder of four Iraqi prisoners who were "bound, blindfolded, shot and dumped in a canal" in Baghdad in 2007.

Spc. Belmor Ramos was sentenced to seven months for conspiracy to commit murder in the same case.

Sgt. Michael Leahy Jr. was sentenced to life in prison for committing the four Baghdad murders. The military then granted him clemency and reduced his sentence to 20 years, with parole possible after seven.

Marine Sgt. Frank D. Wuterich received no jail time for negligent dereliction in the massacre of 24 unarmed men, women and children in 2005 in the Iraqi town of Haditha. Seven other members of his battalion were charged but none were punished in any way.

Marine Lance Cpl. Jerry Shumate and Lance Cpl. Tyler Jackson were both sentenced to 21 months for the aggravated assault of Hashim Ibrahim Awad, 52, a father of 11 and grandfather of four, in Al Hamdania in 2006. Awad died after being shot during the assault. Their sentences were later reduced.

Marine Lance Cpl. Robert Pennington was sentenced to eight years for the same incident, but served only a few months before being granted clemency and released from prison.

Marine Sgt. Lawrence G. Hutchins III was sentenced to 15 years for murder in the Awad case but his conviction was soon overturned and he was released.

No soldiers received any punishment for the killing of five Iraqi children, four women and two men in one Ishaqi home in 2006. Among the U.S. diplomatic cables leaked by Bradley Manning was email from a UN official stating that U.S. soldiers had "executed all of them."


When Wikileaks published the cable, the uproar in Iraq was so big that the Nouri al-Maliki government couldn't grant any remaining U.S. troops immunity from prosecution in Iraqi courts, thus forcing the Obama administration to abandon its plans to keep several thousand U.S. soldiers in Iraq permanently. All U.S. troops were removed at the end of 2011.

My guess is Bradley Manning will spend more time in jail than all of the other soldiers in all of these cases put together. And thus, instead of redeeming ourselves and asking forgiveness for the crimes that Spc. Manning exposed, we will reaffirm to the world who we really are.


http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/what-bradley-mannings-sentence-will-tell-us-about-military-justice-system

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Response to think (Reply #23)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:29 AM

31. Thanks. You raise a central issue: how do we measure justice?

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Response to think (Reply #23)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:17 PM

121. +1000

Moore nails it as usual.

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 08:03 AM

50. "Major Hogwash" is a character you're playing, right? Like "Miss Information"?

 

Because that's the only thing which could explain your support for Bush and Obama international war crimes and that a man has lost his freedom for calling bullshit about thousands upon thousands of needless deaths.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #50)


Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #50)

Thu Aug 1, 2013, 07:20 AM

161. + an unbelievable amount of "yep, uh-huh's and right-on's"

Unbelievable ...

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 09:48 AM

58. Are you happy about this injustice and the fact the war criminals will live out their lives in

luxury from the blood money they were rewarded with, or are you angry about the state of our nation, when heroes like Manning, rather than War Crimiinals like Cheney, are the ones the Government decides not to 'move forward' from?

It's hard to tell what your comment means.

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:39 PM

68. You seem to have missed the big picture. This isn't about Manning. It's about our government.

It is never too late for a different outcome in that context.

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:43 PM

78. That has yet to be determined.

 

We won't know how long he will be imprisoned until Friday.

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 04:55 PM

93. You a big fan of kangaroo courts?

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 09:21 PM

109. No, it isn't. Never too late to do the right thing.

 

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:06 PM

118. then it's a tragic day for the military justice system

he has ample grounds to appeal fortunately.

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #2)

Thu Aug 1, 2013, 07:18 AM

160. I won't be as polite as other commenters to your post...

"So, it's a little late".... makes me want to spit up, as if we can be that stupid to swallow what you posted.

I say, it's never too late to rein in a military operation that went off the reservation after Sept 11th. Hell, it's way past due to rein those sons of bitches in...

I find The Cheney's and Bush's crime ridden, and unprincipled conduct that was carefully spearheading us into illegal acts of war, never on the books, a total commitment to support a "1% solution" INEXCUSABLE. As an American who was continually lied to on behalf of all the blood spilled for oil, I find them all guilty of inexcusable war crimes. Remember how these illegal operations were supposed to be over in weeks and "pay for themselves"? How bout them apples?

Too bad the Obama administration doesn't feel the same way I do. Meanwhile, that piece of shit Cheney got someone's perfectly good new heart. And, everyone who executed the Bush administration's crimes against humanity gets a pass.

But, when it's clearly pointed out by a Pfc, you are perfectly fine because he "broke the law".

You can simply blow it off with a statement like that, can you? Un-FUCKING-believable...

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:20 AM

3. Well, sure sounds like it's those "scoripons" for the 1 percent... nt

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:22 AM

4. We have an up hill battle. Even some so-called Democrats here side with the authoritarian state. nm

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:31 AM

7. You must remember they've turned and they aren't really Democrats

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Response to kenny blankenship (Reply #7)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 09:39 AM

56. lol's...

one picture...worth a thousand words. What happened? Twas it always so? The Walking Dead amongst us... "Who Could Have Known?" (Famous Condi Rice Quote...later used by others to cover any further crisis affecting the security, health and financial well-being of US citizens.)

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Response to KoKo (Reply #56)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:23 AM

59. I think they are just afraid. They were raised in comfortable security and they are

 

willing to sell their souls for the promise of more security. They hate those that dare expose the naked emperor.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #59)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:53 AM

62. I think a good many are Republican runaways, re-registering as Dems to escape the insane GOP

They are still conservatives, trying to remake their new party into the old Reagan GOP.

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Response to DJ13 (Reply #62)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:23 PM

77. Pretty accurate I'd say...

Everything shifts to the right.

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Response to DJ13 (Reply #62)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:32 PM

100. ^^This!^^

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:31 AM

6. The State Department authorized the theft of the UN Secretary General's DNA.

WHY would they want this?

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #6)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:39 AM

17. Plant it in a hotel room with a dead hooker.

 

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #17)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:33 AM

32. I would never have thought of that.

We accept DNA evidence at the scene of a crime as pretty solid evidence. You make me wonder about it. Remember the OJ trial.

Despite that safeguard, it emerged during the cross-examination of Fung and the other laboratory scientists that the police scientist Andrea Mazzola (who collected blood samples from Simpson to compare with evidence from the crime scene) was a trainee who carried the vial of Simpson's blood around in her lab coat pocket for nearly a day before handing it over as an exhibit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._J._Simpson_murder_case

That was one of the factors that made it difficult to convict OJ.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #32)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 03:29 AM

39. More than that,...

 

They collected blood at the murder scene and took it with them to the OJ house and then "found" a tiny trace way up under the dash.

The LAPD has a long history of planting evidence and it looked like they did it in this case as well.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #39)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:25 AM

46. LAPD clearly planted blood in OJ's house. PD's plant guns, drugs all the time. Big Govt taking cues?

Capturing and collecting personal information, DNA, etc - just another tool in the arsenal to control all of us (even the UN Sec Gen.).

The worst dystopian nightmare could be unfolding.

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #6)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:44 AM

20. Good question.


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Response to Th1onein (Reply #6)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:10 AM

24. No (morally) good reason.

 

That applies to surreptitiously collected iris scans, finger prints, and passwords, too.

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #6)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:35 AM

34. To identify his remains if someone attacks the UN. nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #34)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:10 PM

74. They wouldn't need to steal it if this is the case

but you knew that.

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Response to rusty fender (Reply #74)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:59 PM

104. Excuse me? We have no "authority" to "demand" the DNA of foreigners in leadership roles.

But I would not be surprised at all if we routinely "steal" it after meetings that involve coffee and snacks and water.

You seriously think that it would inspire confidence if USA went round to world leaders with a long handled Q tip, and asked for some DNA "just in case?"

But you knew that.

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Response to MADem (Reply #104)

Thu Aug 1, 2013, 04:13 AM

157. You don't think that the UN doesn't already have

the Sec. General's DNA on file for such an occasion?

You will probably come up with another preposterous reason for the need of the U.S. to steal the Sec. General's DNA, and that will show your hand as a catapulter of the propaganda when you do.

No one is buying your bullshit.

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Response to rusty fender (Reply #157)

Thu Aug 1, 2013, 05:10 AM

158. I'm not buying yours, and your attempts to provoke are lame in the extreme.

You have one of those real nice days, now.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:35 AM

9. You've been doing great job on this story, kpete

I just want you to know how much we appreciate it.

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Response to pscot (Reply #9)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:15 AM

27. +1

 

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Response to pscot (Reply #9)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:35 AM

33. +2

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Response to pscot (Reply #9)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:38 AM

36. +100000



Thank you.

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Response to pscot (Reply #9)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:21 AM

45. +1

Muchas gracias por el tiempo que usted pone en este.

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Response to Agony (Reply #45)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 09:17 AM

53. de nada

and peace
kp

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Response to pscot (Reply #9)

Thu Aug 1, 2013, 07:21 AM

162. Agreed...

in spades...

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:02 AM

10. US defense contractor involved in child traficking? Beyond vile, disgusting, horrifying!

I knew some of the facts in your OP, but there were several that were new to me.

I've lived a long time, and for 3 years of that time, I was a National Institute of Mental Health Research Fellow. I have observed over the decades that mental illness is often contagious, in the sense that those who live and/or work in close contact with the mentally ill/morally depraved, become enablers and often adopt these behaviors and join in on the depravity themselves. I also believe that there is such a thing as "evil". I used to consider it extremely rare, but looking over the list of facts which Manning exposed, I'd say that evil is becoming epidemic.

I think Bradley Manning recognized two roads diverging in his life and he consciously chose to take what I consider the moral high road.

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Response to Divernan (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:14 AM

12. True there was no good excuse for assisting in covering that up.

And that should be one of the mitigating factors in sentencing but also keep in mind he could have reported it legally to congress and or the inspector generals office but he choose not to.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #12)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:24 AM

14. I believe he made the right choice to make sure it wasn't covered up.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #12)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:26 AM

15. He wasn't able to

Other whistleblowers have gone through the system and been gagged or buried. Manning managed to get the info out, and Snowden learned from his mistakes to do it better. Ironically, Manning tried to get the NYT to do it, but they predictably sided with the establishment. The gov't basically forced him toward Assange.

The next great whistleblower will pull it off perfectly, I think. We'll never know who s/he is, and his release will be the proper size to get things moving in the right direction, or will come out in stages in an automated fashion.

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Response to Hydra (Reply #15)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:39 AM

16. Well hopefully future whistleblowers will also take more care to only

release things that truly need to be exposed and not do things like providing details on US intelligence efforts to a foreign power.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #16)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:03 AM

22. Yup, they better watch their step, or else!

 

...Seriously, what the fuck is going through your head right now? Whatever it is, I can't believe it's encountering a lot of friction.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #22)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:26 AM

29. Insults from you wont change actual facts, sorry if you felt it would. nt

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #29)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 03:09 PM

85. seriously can't we all agree

this is wrong and has got to be stopped in whatever way possible

<<<<<<<<<< Medical evidence detailed how prisoners had been whipped with heavy cables across the feet, hung from ceiling hooks, suffered holes being bored into their legs with electric drills, urinated upon, and sexually assaulted.>>>>>>>>>>>.

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #85)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 03:19 PM

88. Sure thats wrong but I assume you must have meant to reply to someone else as

I never said that kinda stuff was ok.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #88)

Thu Aug 1, 2013, 01:08 PM

168. yes by siding with the truthblockers

you are enabling that to continue..in fact you are encouraging it

you say manning broke the law but you ignore the information of extreme law breaking he exposed

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #168)

Thu Aug 1, 2013, 02:19 PM

169. "you say manning broke the law" No, Manning did that when he pleaded guilty.

Not saying he didnt have good intentions but the facts are what they are.
Seeing though as most of what he revealed that wasnt covering up something vital and was largely just embarrassing hopefully the court wont impose the maximum sentence on him and instead give him only 5 years or so with time served.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #16)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:17 PM

67. What, so they have to do it in a fashion you completely approve of?

These people are risking their lives to give us a window to people who don't want to be seen. If you are really concerned about national security, get out there and pound pavement to make them do it right. Right now, someone is sitting in Edward Snowden's position at Booz Allen funneling information to the Chinese and collecting their paycheck month after month. Our security has so many holes it may as well be swiss cheese.

We wouldn't have known that if Snowden hadn't shown us that. He was not properly background checked, and nobody is overseeing any of this processes.

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Response to Hydra (Reply #67)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 03:01 PM

83. Its not an issue of my approving its an issue of the law

and the law is pretty clear over how to handle classified information and in this case the proper and legal way to handle it would have been to report it to the inspector general and or to congress.
Now I realize Manning and Snowden revealed crimes or what they thought were crimes, ok I get that but the real problem is they also revealed alot of stuff that didnt involve a crime and in Mannings case it was largely the internal embassy memos (not a major crime on his part but still a crime) and in Snowdens it was largely providing details on US intelligence efforts in other countries.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #16)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:40 PM

101. And who is to decide which is what?

 

The whole spying enchilada is based on paranoia. Everybody is the enemy. The only "friends" are those that enable and reenforce your paranoia, and even they are suspect.
How does that promote peace when we hide everything, including the bathroom sink, lie, and claim National Security to protect the lies?
If you or I acted like this, we be put in an institution for treatment.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #16)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 09:54 PM

114. We know what you think of whistle-blowers.

What do you think of the war-crimes that Manning exposed?

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Response to Vanje (Reply #114)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:32 PM

132. You are going to have to be more specific on what war crimes you

believe he exposed.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #132)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:41 PM

138. Child-trafficking by contractors...

Covering up massacre of Rueters newsmen,

Torturing prisoners....

and though its not a war cime, How do you like that the Obama admin squelched wage increase in Haiti?

Have you any comments about any of the wrongdoings, or, er, PR problems that Manning exposed?

Any comments on the meat of the article.
You're not bothered, not even a wee bit vexed?

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Response to Vanje (Reply #138)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:37 PM

154. Manning didnt expose torture we already knew the US was involved in

outsourcing that.
The child trafficking I addressed in another thread and specifically said it was a legit issue to whistleblow about though he could have contacted the Inspector General over it.
But as for your Reuters reporters killed I assume you are referring to the July 12, 2007 incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007_Baghdad_airstrike ?
If so my gut says it was but evidence wise...........not sure if it could be proven.

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Response to Divernan (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:13 AM

26. I thought it was Wackenhut/Armorgroup that trafficked young boys, not Dyncorp.

 

But maybe it was only a party where they got naked and drank vodka shots out of each others asses.

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Response to OnyxCollie (Reply #26)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:33 AM

60. Widespread practice, and yet people are not angered by this, but by the fact that it was revealed

 

Twisted priorities in this thread. Bradley stood up for innocent kids being used as property by US Government contractors using tax money. Using OUR money.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #60)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:43 AM

61. No one's claimed it's an attempt

 

by racists to bring down the President, so there's that to be thankful for.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #60)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 09:56 PM

115. Yeah.

The fact has me reeling.

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Response to Divernan (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:36 AM

35. Well said.

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Response to Divernan (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 08:13 AM

52. In Bizarro world, child traffickers go free while those who call bullshit on it are imprisoned. n/t

 

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Response to Divernan (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:43 PM

79. The Man in the High Castle

"There is evil! It's actual, like cement.
I can't believe it. I can't stand it.
Evil is not a view ... it's an ingredient in us. In the world. Poured over us, filtering into our bodies, minds, hearts, into the pavement itself."

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Response to Divernan (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:49 PM

81. It's not the first time. Happened in Bosnia

 

Same company, Dyncorp, I think. Read about it in Rachael Maddow's book. Basically, the contractors were keeping young girls as sex slaves in their tents purchased from local organized crime orgs.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:18 AM

13. I don't know so much about who, but what

Power, intimidation, out right disregard for the constitution?

We're going to have some dark times ahead that we need to work through. We need to thread that needle until we have a strong knot on corporations.

We need to hang in there and keep, keeping on.

I do see the reality. Been spouting it out for years, but I'm some kind of fringe leftist hack.

What do you do when it's kill the messenger?



-p

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:40 AM

18. K&R

 

[font color=gray size=3]A Different Perspective[/font]

''No one who lives in error is free.'' ~Euripides
-
"Battle not with monsters - lest ye become a monster." ~Friedrich Nietzsche
-
"To fight the empire is to be infected by its derangement. Whoever defeats part of the empire becomes the empire; it proliferates like a virus... thereby it becomes its enemies." ~Philip K. Dick
-
"When masses are made to believe something negative, they may create what they did not want, which is how for instance the 'N.W.O.' works. You are believing it is taking shape, so it will take shape and so-called think tanks and political theorists are major players in helping this take shape by bombarding us with the 'facts' that it is taking shape. Those facts claim that you are giving-in to their power everyday, and they control you more... while in reality you are in full control.

So the people who are 'waking up' to it are the ones who are creating it. They say: ''Resist, the control being forced upon humanity. React, when they do their political manueverings to bring about less sovereignty and greater suffering for the nations of the world.''

But we mustn’t resist and react to this control. As Carl Jung said, ''What you resist, persists.'' What the powers that be want is for us to become that radical element (again it doesn’t matter which side we choose). We can be either for them or against them. If we react and if we resist, we give them the manipulative power to push the agenda along. By resisting and reacting, we are demonstrating that we believe in the underlying, subliminal and hypnotic suggestion of this reality, thereby making it our reality, and the events they wish to occur concerning humanity, and that they wish to appear real, will occur and it becomes our reality.

Do not pay attention to the 'world events', they are all orchestrated to make you pay attention to them. The struggle you should pay attention to is on a personal level."

~The Insider

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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #18)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 03:28 PM

91. +1 Shunning is one of the most powerful reprimands.

Boycotts and refusal to work are very effective forms of resistance.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:41 AM

19. Too bad Amnesty International is ignored in America.

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:11 AM

25. The Obama Administration: Protecting Criminals and Screwing Over Whistleblowers, 24/7

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:43 AM

37. Thank you. This should go to the Greatest Page.


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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:57 AM

38. M$M: yawn

 

Like it's apparently "not in vogue" anymore to give a rats ass about innocent
people being murdered in our name.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 06:51 AM

40. But gosh. He took a solemn oath! He PROMISED!!

 

It must be lovely living in the child-like, morally simplistic universe of the Manning critics.

K and R

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:04 AM

41. K&R

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:09 AM

42. US NAVY 1969-73 K&R

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:11 AM

43. kick

There is no reason to keep an eye on our government. Trust them.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:12 AM

44. America needs to look in the mirror and face these ugly facts

k and r

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:34 AM

48. Manning was not a whistleblower.

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/the-feed/3598/wikileaks-defense-everyone-iraq-has-ak-47

Julian Assange, a WikiLeaks editor, acknowledged to Fox News in an interview Tuesday evening that “it’s likely some of the individuals seen in the video were carrying weapons.” Assange said his suspicions about the weapons were so strong that a draft version of the video they produced made specific reference to the AK-47s and RPGs. Ultimately, Assange said, WikiLeaks became “unsure” about the weapons. He claimed the RPG could have been a camera tripod, so editors decided not to point it out. “Based upon visual evidence I suspect there probably were AKs and an RPG, but I’m not sure that means anything,” Assange said. Nearly every Iraqi household has a rifle or an AK. Those guys could have just been protecting their area.”


I don't know all the details about the contractor abuses but that's rarely mentioned by Manning or his supporters. My suspicion is that he did not know about it -it was 'collateral damage' in the documents he stole- but feel free to provide a link that shows otherwise because I can't find one.

Manning should receive a lenient sentence because his intentions were good and he was emotionally unstable. I think that's in the cards from his judge. We'll find out today.
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Response to randome (Reply #48)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:53 PM

102. "emotionally unstable" Isn't that the excuse the USSR used to fill the gulags?

 

Why yes it is.
How dare anyone object to being treated badly just because they were not a member of the ruling class and of having the audacity to say something bad about that ruling class. Why of course they had to be emotionally unstable. Why else would they be acting that way?

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Response to RC (Reply #102)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:57 PM

103. He was widely believed to have gender identity disorder.

 

He punched his commanding officer.

He was found curled up on the floor in a fetal position after having carved the words 'I want' into a chair with a knife.

If you don't call all that emotionally troubled, what would you call it?
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Response to randome (Reply #103)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 08:05 PM

105. Just plain abused?

 

Neither you nor I have any idea what he went through. Have you ever been in the military? If not, you can't have any idea of the abuse the upper ranked enlisted and officers can inflict.

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Response to RC (Reply #105)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 08:46 PM

107. Of course I have no idea. I only know what has been reported and verified.

 

But I doubt he 'caught' gender identity disorder from someone else. I already said I hope the judge shows him leniency but the fact is he was a mess for whatever reason.
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Response to randome (Reply #103)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:27 PM

127. I hear he had boxes in his garage, too.

 

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Response to Marr (Reply #127)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:32 PM

131. I'm sure I wouldn't know anything about that.

 

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Response to randome (Reply #48)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 09:59 PM

117. Do you have any strong feelings about the war crimes

that Manning revealed?
Anything?

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Response to Vanje (Reply #117)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:15 PM

120. Soldiers doing their jobs do not constitute war crimes.

 

What we did in Iraq was abominable. But soldiers who saw armed individuals in a war zone and requested permission to fire are guilty of nothing but being soldiers.
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Response to randome (Reply #120)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:26 PM

126. I don't think you read the article.

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Response to Vanje (Reply #126)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:31 PM

130. I believe I gave it more attention than Manning did the hundreds of thousands of documents he stole.

 

Every time there is a defense of Manning, the only thing he is associated with is that Apache helicopter attack.

Were other things buried in the documents he didn't read? Undoubtedly but they had nothing to do with the reason for his document dump.

And I'm not sure how many of them would be classified as war crimes. The U.S. tried to fudge the numbers on casualties? Is that a war crime? They used poor criteria for arresting someone? Is that a war crime? Contractor abuse? Is that a war crime? I don't believe any of those are but correct me if I'm wrong.
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Response to randome (Reply #130)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:48 PM

141. Its not illegal.............

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Response to Vanje (Reply #141)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:50 PM

144. Maybe if Presidents and other politicians were made to serve in war...

 

...we'd have fewer wars. Like...none.
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Response to Vanje (Reply #126)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:35 PM

135. I don't think they give a shit.

 

Well, I'm very generously assuming that's the case, at least. That is to say, I'm assuming they just plunged straight into rationalizing this without bothering to read the article because they don't really give a shit.

The only other possibility is that they read it and don't see a problem with any of that activity, which would just be... disturbing.

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Response to Marr (Reply #135)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:50 PM

145. I'm disturbed

I'm appalled.
I'm totally creeped out.

I feel sick.



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Response to randome (Reply #120)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:35 PM

134. "Soldiers doing their jobs do not constitute war crimes"

It did at Nuremberg. And just because it's Americans "following orders" now, doesn't mean they're not committing war crimes.

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Response to dflprincess (Reply #134)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:38 PM

137. So you want to throw the hundred thousand or so soldiers who served in Iraq in prison?

 

I don't think you'll get much support for that idea.

Again, what we did in Iraq is beyond abominable. We have no disagreement there.
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Response to randome (Reply #137)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:50 PM

143. One would hope that not every soldier committed war crimes

but any who did should be in prison and none of the "only following orders crap". If it didn't work for the Germans or the Japanese it shouldn't work for Americans.

And I include Bush, Obama and everyone between them and the guards at Abu Gharib who either gave or followed illegal orders.

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Response to dflprincess (Reply #143)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:58 PM

148. Sometimes I think all of us 'let' Iraq happen by not stopping it.

 

And that we are all to blame. But I don't see any legal framework for what you mention. Mostly because there were 20 or so other countries who cooperated for the shafting of Iraq.

There will be no retribution for what we did under Bush Jr.'s reign. More's the pity.
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Response to randome (Reply #148)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:20 PM

153. Some of us marched, wrote letters.....

and I bet all of us (here), worked hard on Obama's campaign and voted the Republicans out of the White House.

That Obama is complicit in cover-ups is more than disappointing. Its devastating.

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Response to dflprincess (Reply #143)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:16 PM

151. Agreed

I think cover-ups should be punishable too.

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Response to randome (Reply #120)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:45 PM

140. Do you approve of the cover-up?

Are you tickled pink by the intentional under reporting of civilian deaths?

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Response to Vanje (Reply #140)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:54 PM

147. You are making assumptions about me.

 

I do not in any way, shape or form condone what America did to Iraq. Or any cover-ups that flowed from that debacle.

But statistical cover-ups do not rise to the occasion of 'war crimes', IMO. That's just looking coldly at the facts as I see them.
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Response to randome (Reply #48)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:44 PM

139. Your quote does not support your opinion about Manning not being a whistleblower.

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Response to blackspade (Reply #139)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:48 PM

142. No, it's my opinion.

 

A whistleblower shows evidence of illegality or abuse. The Apache helicopter attack was not illegal since most people -even Assange!- agree the individuals were armed.

A whistleblower also does not steal hundreds of thousands of documents and hand them over to a foreign national like Assange.
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Response to randome (Reply #142)

Thu Aug 1, 2013, 07:39 AM

164. Then you haven't watched all of the apache footage.

The initial attack was bad enough, but the followup when they killed a civilian rendering aid was horrible and illegal.
Illegal, because the pilots in question lied in order to get clearance to fire.
In the process they shot up a van with children on board.

As for handing documents to a foreign national, he handed them to a journalist, a perfectly acceptable practice for a whisleblower that had been blown off by his home country's M$M.

So sure, it's your opinion, but it is not based on facts, which is how we progressives evaluate things.

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Response to blackspade (Reply #164)

Thu Aug 1, 2013, 07:49 AM

165. I don't see that the illegality is as clear cut as some maintain.

 

What did they lie about? I don't see it. Or are you talking about the selectively edited video that Wikileaks first released?
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Response to randome (Reply #165)

Thu Aug 1, 2013, 08:27 AM

166. I'm talking about the full 40 min or so video.

The first attack was bad enough, but the second on the van was illegal.
First of all, there were no weapons, they were picking up a wounded man.
Second, the vehicle was not a bongo truck, a type of vehicle used by insurgents, but a minivan.

The pilots lied to the ground commander in order to get clearance to shoot. In doing so they killed civilians without cause just because they wanted too.

It was despicable.

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Response to randome (Reply #48)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:07 PM

149. Puke Post



RL

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:37 AM

49. KR

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 08:12 AM

51. Total sentence for all of those crimes: 0. But all of this, for revealing them.

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #51)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 09:27 AM

55. Bradley Manning Revealed Crimes Far Worse Than the Ones He Supposedly Committed

The lopsided nature of our legal system is well-known to any close observer of American politics. The law is for the powerful to defy with impunity, and for the weak to be punished with.

More info on this here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-glaser/bradley-manning-revealed-_b_3678734.html

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Response to kpete (Reply #55)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:02 AM

63. It's always a sick feeling seeing people so glibly enable that evil. "Traitors" indeed.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:27 AM

64. K&R....

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:47 AM

65. Recommend.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:15 PM

70. The empire IS evil, the corporate-military the 1% banksters have built is an evil empire..,

 

it really is becoming clear, that the people running the show are evil and have no redeeming qualities, we must now take the power back or just sit back and watch as they spiral out of control. They corrupt society and culture with they actions and through their media,. they abuse people the world over, and they profit by doing so!

Choose love or fear,. it is an easy choice.

Free Bradley Manning

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:36 PM

71. There is a CANCER on the SOUL of AMERICA

CANCER can't be cured unless it is discovered and ACTED UPON.

Bradley Manning performed a GREAT SERVICE for AMERICA.

NOW it is UP TO US to ACT!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:03 PM

73. America HAS BECOME the USSR

 

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Response to Angelonthesidelines (Reply #73)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:16 PM

76. No, it is becoming Oceania

The USSR was much worse than current USA, however, we are well on our way to 1984's Oceania.

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Response to Dorn (Reply #76)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:16 PM

152. That's about as good a way to put it, Dorn...

I can't believe that anyone is more concerned with the method of Manning's revelation, than the revelation itself, for fuck's sake.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 03:19 PM

87. K&R

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 04:41 PM

92. And why is that cabal of scorpions so free to take their book tours

And collect 5 and 6 digit speaking fees, plus all those scorpions who don't need to write books or give speeches because the companies they participate in, like Cheney and Halliburton, or Richard Blum's contracting company, made tens of millions of dollars off the Iraq War and they now look forward to lives of luxury, while Manning will have only a jail cell?

Answer: because those scorpions have the power to make the perverse and corrupted policies legal, despite their immorality, and they need the cover of darkness. Without penalizing whistleblowers, then the newly awakened citizens might use the leaked info to see that there can no longer be "business as bloody usual" inside the Beltway.

Somehow we can put Manning into jail for LIFE, while Senator Di Feinstein's perverted code of Senate Ethics allows a nation to be lied into war, and allows for Senators to vote for that war, and then that Senator can turn around and enable their spouses to make over 750 millions of dollars in war contracts during the next ten years.

And if anyone on DU thinks that Di Feinstein serves on the Senate Intelligence committee for the good of the nation, rather than as a way for her spouse to further enrich them with Surveillance Contracts, I have an oyster farm in Western Marin I can sell them.

(And please, realize that answering this with an "outraged" "You pick on Feinstein because she is a woman" nonsense will get only a smirk from me as response. Having a vagina does not allow a person to condemn over 6,000 US service people to death, along with a million Iraqi civilians, so that you and your husband can have a pretty 16 million dollar home in The Presidio with a "View to die for."

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #92)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 09:00 PM

108. I agree whole heartedly with every word you said here

And I'm a woman. Feinstein admitted that if she were to follow the wishes of her constituents she would have voted against the Iraq War Resolution. But she claimed in her form letter response to those of us who begged her to vote against it, that she had access to secret intelligence that convinced her to vote for it. I'll bet she did. I'll bet that intelligence came from a source very close to home.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 04:57 PM

94. As soon as I saw the pictures coming out of Abu Grab

 

prison, I KNEW we would be whitewashing and covering up one of the biggest, modern, crimes against humanity - since Saddam became dictator of that nation.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 05:05 PM

95. Our government isn't keeping anyone safe. Nor do they want to...

WE are the enemy. The Obama Administration is only interested in keeping the American people from finding out what filthy, horrific activities they're engaging in.

"CABAL OF SCORPIONS", indeed!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 06:42 PM

98. That is probably the tip of the iceberg revealed

a transparent democracy no long functions if it withers in the presence of light(truth).

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 09:36 PM

110. The Obama administration is deep in these crimes.

....and we can't really blame the Republicans in congress, Can we.

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Response to Vanje (Reply #110)

Thu Aug 1, 2013, 07:23 AM

163. I ALWAYS blame the Repuglicans in congress...

That's one of the sure bets in this universe.

OTOH, President Obama clearly has unclean hands in this matter.

Cheers,
Agony

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:43 PM

155. If Obama only knew, surely he would do something. Why don't his aides tell him?

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:55 PM

156. Like Obama's 30,000 armed Drones flying the US skies by 2020, they're protecting the 1% from the 99%

 

No change.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Aug 1, 2013, 07:06 PM

173. "The State Department authorized the theft of the UN Secretary General's DNA. "

 

Well, I think we all figured that, but it was nice to have proof.

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