What kind of person would be fine with the following....

[MrScorpio]

- Some black and brown families move into their previously all-white neighborhood.

- A black or brown woman gets hired to replace their former boss who was a white guy.

- Their daughter starts dating or even considers marrying a standard looking black or brown fellow.

- A media icon gets re-visioned from a white character to a black or brown character. (Say hi to your new Haitian Spider-Man)

- Their church welcomes the first black and brown families as new members.

- Any other instance where a white identity is no longer the standard or the default and a non-white identity is given an equal or higher footing.

Would a "colorblind" person be fine with those things, or would a person who believes in Multiculturalism welcome them?

10 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	A colorblind person would welcome these things
	5 (50%)
	A multicultural person would welcome these things
	5 (50%)
	Other
	0 (0%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[PDJane]

1. by the way, it's their, not there.

[MrScorpio]

3. Thanks

[Tx4obama]

2. And I think 'instant' should be: instance

[MrScorpio]

4. Thanks

[hedgehog]

5. Well, even a person who appreciates multiculturalism might be upset if their

favorite radio station changed formats!

[MrScorpio]

6. Do you think I should drop that one?

Because if doing this will make this a better poll, I will

[dipsydoodle]

7. Yes - in a similar vein

back in the ninities I was so annoyed when our cable tv here in the UK dropped the Country Music channel I had cable disconnected. Bastards.

[MrScorpio]

9. I dropped the country station example nt

[dipsydoodle]

11. You didn't need to that.

I appreciate that possibly those who listen to nothing else may also have odd leanings.

If I could listen to nothing else I'd probably go with Ska.

[gollygee]

12. I don't know

We had a radio station that changed from classic rock or something to "black adult contemporary" (how they described themselves) and it created a shit storm of controversy. This radio station that had existed at this location for ages all of a sudden was not appropriate in that place, not because it had an African American audience, but because the location wasn't fit for any radio station at all. The protestors went to great lengths to assure everyone that it wasn't about the programming at all, they were COLORBLIND.

[hedgehog]

25. Gracious as always!

[OmahaBlueDog]

8. OK, Mr. Scorpio...

- Some black and brown families move into their previously all-white neighborhood.

I've lived in Florida , Maryland, and California. Even my neighborhood in Nebraska, which is comparatively whiter than places I used to live, still had some persons of color. I'm not sure all white neighborhoods truly exist any more.

- A black or brown woman gets hired to replace their former boss who was a white guy.

If the black or brown woman will advance my career and help me make more money better than the white boss did, then I'm good. Work is about making money, not liking people.

- Their daughter starts dating or even considers marrying a standard looking black or brown fellow.

OK, here is the thing. I have two daughters. I promise , I will dislike their proposed marriage partners regardless of color.

- A media icon gets re-visioned from a white character to a black or brown character. (Say hi to your new Haitian Spider-Man)

Depends on the Icon. Depends on the re-envisioning.

- Their church welcomes the first black and brown families as new members.

Well, we've had an African priest in our parish, so I don't think black or brown parishoners are going to be a big shock.

- Their favorite country station changes to an "urban" format.

Music is personal taste, so I suspect I'd just switch stations. However, I'm one who constantly hits the seek button until I find a song I like. I'm not wedded to formats or genres. Now Mrs. OBD switched from principally being a pop/rock fan, to a country fan. That's a whole 'nother problem.

- Any other instance where a white identity is no longer the standard or the default and a non-white identity is given an equal or higher footing.

Like, for example, the Presidency...

[MrScorpio]

10. Would you consider yourself a person who believes in "colorblindness"

Or "multiculturalism"?

By the way, I dropped the country station example.

[OmahaBlueDog]

31. I'm pressed for time, so this answer will not be up to my usual standards

Am I colorblind? No. I doubt anyone is truly colorblind.

Do I believe in multiculturalism? The essence of America is multiculturalism. Leave color out of it for a moment, and just look at European immigrants -- multiple cultures, religions, food styles, and languages. And they haven't always been kind to one another. In fact, they've been downright nasty at times.

Color has just added to the mix. Look at African Americans -- a wide range of cultures. The main group we always think of are the decedents of African slaves brought to work fields in the 13 colonies and later the South; however, they have linguistic and cultural differences from Jamaican immigrants; Haitian immigrants; African immigrants. Similarly, there are cultural and linguistic differences among Latinos -- Mexicans, Brazilians, Cubans, Puerto Ricans all represent differences in language and background.

Race is still very much an issue, but there have been changes. I remember when a black/white couple walking down a street in the 70s or 80s drew raised eyebrows and comments. Now, it hardly draws notice.

I see two factors that annoy a certain class of white people. One is the fact that Spanish media and accommodations made possible by modern electronics has made it possible for Latinos to go through life and not learn English if they so choose. I think most actually choose to do so, but certain whites (who tend to "remember" an America that never really was) are incredibly put out by hearing Spanish in grocery stores, dialing "9" for English, and not getting promotions because they are not bilingual English/Spanish. The second factor is that there is a perception by many whites that poor African Americans are poor because they are lazy and lacking in ambition, and the reason that they are lazy and lacking in ambition is that the government created a culture of dependency on "welfare" and "food stamps." Of course, most whites can't really explain welfare, and don't understand what it really does or the qualifications, but that's unimportant. The government isn't handing them money, so why should it hand money to anyone else...

I've lived a lot of places (Oakland, Suburban DC, South Florida) and I've met a lot of people of all colors, faiths, and social/economic levels. Almost all have created some sort of food or music or writing that has enriched my life...however, there are none that I would let date my daughter. (E.T.A: You'll recall what I said in my last post: "OK, here is the thing. I have two daughters. I promise , I will dislike their proposed marriage partners regardless of color." )

[Scuba]

13. I went with "a multicultural person would welcome", but you've gotta explain to me please ...

.... what a "standard looking black or brown fellow" looks like?

[MrScorpio]

14. Close your eyes and envision any black or brown male that would just happen to be walking around

And you'd have your fellow.

[notadmblnd]

19. I married a "standard looking black or brown fellow"

He was a country fella from LA. My parents loved him. In fact, I think they loved him more than me. I don't think I've ever heard my parents express the level of esteem they hold for him, for any other human being they know.

He passed away 10 years ago and they still talk about how much they love him and miss him.

[Scuba]

21. I keep seeing two. One looks like Sammy Davis Junior and the other looks like ...

... a 6'4" CMSgt I worked for at Clark AB. Maybe if I average them I'll get "standard".

[Brewinblue]

15. A "colorblind" person rejects your false dichotomy.

Just sayin . .

[MrScorpio]

16. I reject that anyone can be "blind" to color

Especially when dealing with any color other than their own.

[Brewinblue]

32. The color of a person's skin, or other physical attributes, has no bearing

on the culture with which he or she identifies.

As an example, I happen to be half Mexican. I have jet black hair, dark brown eyes, and a slightly brown skin color -- sorta Mexicany features. Culturally, however, I identify with my blue eyed, very white, Jewish father. Why? Well, I grew up in Encino, a wealthy, white, and predominately Jewish area of Los Angeles.

My 100% Mexican mother, on the other hand, grew up in the barrio around downtown L.A. She is fair skinned, has lighter hair and eyes than me, and looks every bit like a white European. Mom, however, identifies very much with her Mexican cultural upbringing.

Truly "colorblind" persons (as opposed to those who are only "colorblind" when it serves their bigoted agenda), are not oblivious to skin color, they just don't let it be a determining factor in their decisions, opinions, and behavior with regard to others. Family upbringing, economic environment, and life experiences of people, however, may be given great importance, depending upon the situation at hand.

[kwassa]

42. not true.

It might have no bearing in your case; this does not mean it doesn't have bearing in many other people's cases.

[longship]

17. I see what you are doing here. Kudos for the effort.

But, damn! This is a difficult subject to bring up. But certainly something like what you are attempting may very well be a good starting point, albeit one which should have been broached decades earlier.

What is sad is that we still have to phrase these issues like this in the 21st century.

Altogether, a noble effort. I just do not have an answer. Apparently humankind doesn't either. That's sad. But we have to keep pushing people to consider these things. The young people get it. Totally. Therein lies our hope.

Happy to R&K.

[HappyMe]

18. I replied in the other thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023366521#post37

As far as 'colorblind' or 'multicultural' goes, I am thoroughly confused. When I am speaking to a person, I am responding to what they are saying. I don't tend to respond as 'oh, this ______ person is saying this'. Unless they say something like 'well, growing up in China/Haiti/Korea/Mali/Puerto Rico/India/the Bronx/Jamaica...'
I respect other people's different life experiences. It gives you a fresh perspective on even the mundane things sometime.
I just enjoy people. It would be boring as fuck if we were all the same.

I just hope like hell, that this offends nobody.

[MH1]

20. Item #2 would not be "welcomed" if the new boss was an a-hole or couldn't communicate

well in English.

But color isn't the issue in that case.

Really, any of those things should not necessarily be "welcomed" for the sake of multiculturalism, but judged on the merits of the person and their ability to fulfill that role competently and pleasantly.

So on second thought, I am removing my vote for "a multicultural person would welcome it".

[LWolf]

22. I don't know.

I would be fine with all of those things, but I'm hesitant to claim it for others.

If it's a discussion of terms, I prefer "multicultural." I prefer to recognize, and value, differences that make the world a more beautiful, interesting, and complex place.

[Bettie]

23. Um, any normal person would be fine with all of this

Really, what is the deal today?

Why should I care if Spiderman is black or white (or whatever)?

Good neighbors are good neighbors no matter what color/religion, etc. they are....sadly, bad neighbors are bad neighbors regardless of any of that too.

Who my children date/love/marry isn't a color issue, it is a decent person issue.

Multicultural/Color-blind....seems like simple common decency to accept people for who they are.

[MrScorpio]

24. Sorry, Peter Parker. The response to the black Spiderman shows why we need one

USA Today reported that the Ultimate Universe of Marvel comics was killing off Peter Parker and having a new Spiderman, the half-black, half-Hispanic Miles Morales, take up the suit.

And this has ignited a minor uproar.

Aside from the fact that the response to the “black Spiderman,” has been absolutely thumpingly out of scale and crazy, we hit a larger problem: the problem of The One Who Looks Like Me.

The world of comics-readers and toy buyers seems to be divided into two camps. (Forget Glenn Beck – he says he doesn't care about it anyway.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/post/sorry-peter-parker-the-response-to-the-black-spiderman-shows-why-we-need-one/2011/08/03/gIQAViObsI_blog.html

Either one can turn a blind eye to something like systematic racism and bigotry, or one can recognize it for the problem that it is in our society.

[Nevernose]

28. For the record, there was a multiracial Spider-Man in 1992

Miguel O'Hara, son of a Pierto Rican mother and an Irish father.

And Miles Morales has been around since 2011.

I think (or at least hope) that this is more a backlash against Marvel's nefarious agenda to kill off Peter Parker in all continuities. He's been dead in the main run for 15 issues now (his body is alive, but his mind was replaced by Otto Octavius's'), and it's really starting to piss off the fans. They even renamed the flagship title "Superior Spider-Man."

They're also destroying, or at least fucking up the Ultimates universe, probably due to bad sales recently. I suspect that Miles and a few others (like the black Nick Fury) will transition into the main Marvel-616 universe.

While I'm ranting about multiculturalism in comics: at least Marvel tries. The first gay superhero was in 1991 or so. Powerman was one of many attempts in the 70s at inclusiveness (although I was recently re-reading some of my Powerman and Iron Fist issues, and it was "accidentally" racist. Funny, in retrospect). And the explanation for the black Nick Fury, who actually existed before Sam Jackson played him in the movies? The original Nick Fury would be in his 90s (I actually collect "Sgt. Fury and His Howlin' Commandos" -- he knew Captain America before the super soldier serum), so the retcon is that in the 1960s, Nick Fury had a torrid love affair with a black woman, producing Nick Fury Jr. Personally, that's one of my favorites, because while the fastest growing race on America is "multiracial," those youngsters don't have many superheroes of their own, and now they've got Samuel L. Jackson in "The Avengers."

In 12 years at DU, this is the frat time I've ever been able to tie my prolific and intimate, yet largely useless, knowledge of Marvel superheroes to current political events.

[uppityperson]

26. I had to vote Other as I see multiculturalism as going wayyyyyy beyond simply skin color.

And I do not see skin color as a culture. Yes, there is racism but I see culture as way more than skin color.

[Igel]

27. Your poll doesn't match the set up.

Somebody into multiculturalism would welcome them.

A colorblind person would be okay with them. I don't think a colorblind person would "welcome" them necessarily because that's suddenly seeing colors in a way that contradicts being colorblind.

Having a Haitian Spiderman would be like having a Nahuatl Anansi or a Luo Loki. Each is too grounded in where he's from and to repeat him would be fawningly derivative or you'd have to do a lot of violence to his character. It's easy to confuse their defining traits as skin color when it's so much more. (I found the Avenger's "Thor" and his Loki to be offensive. Note that their skin color stayed the same. But their personalities, backgrounds ... mockery. At least Gaiman did a bit more justice to Anansi in "American Gods." Oh. Gaiman's a very talented writer.)

I want to be appreciated and received validation at work because of my job performance; in the neighborhood, because of how I keep up my yard and relate to neighbors. And to a large extent I seek to get past some of my past. Some bits are useful; some aren't. Depends on context. My interpretations and attitudes worked then and there; but they were ill-suited to college and I hadn't learned to chuck them--so college was hard. My context changed, I couldn't see it, and I failed to adapt in time. Pity. Adapted later. Am still adapting. Texas isn't Oregon, high school isn't grad school.

My past has shaped me but I can't let it define me or limit me any more than I want my thyroid disease or the car I had in high school to define me or limit me or the fact that I used to wear Pumas, then wore Nikes, now wear New Balance says something really important about me now.

[MrScorpio]

30. How did you feel with JJ Abrams turned a South Asian Khan into a White Brit...

Or when Hollywood whitewashes any number of minority characters, even real people of color into whites?

http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2013/03/25-minority-characters-that-hollywood-whitewashed/

It truly is a form of blindness when color can be wiped away in order to replace it with some inaccurate depiction of what really someone is.

Aren't we just programmed to accept that this is an Asian?


Hugo Weaving

Or this is a Black Person...

Angelina Jolie

When it's a person who really looks like this:



Image is everything. If can't question it when some "colorblind", defaulted to White, characterization is created in order to distort reality, can anyone who accepts it as "true" be truly honest with themselves?

[Brewinblue]

35. Ricardo Montalbon, the original Khan,

was Mexican. The new version of Khan is played by a Brit. The Kahn character in both instances, has an Indian sounding first name, but his ethnicity is never addressed. So what's your point?

[MrScorpio]

38. In the Sixties, when they had a character who was supposed to be an advanced superhuman...

With both the character and the actor playing him, they made an effort to depict him as non-white...

Somehow in 2013, that same effort wasn't even duplicated... Plus the fact that there are plenty of South Asian actors who could have played him

Star Trek: Into Whiteness [OP-ED]

May 17, 2013 by Marissa Sammy Source: www.racebending.com

May 9, 2013: If there’s one thing that most fans of Star Trek will agree on, it’s the fact that Gene Roddenberry’s vision for the show — and, more optimistically, for human society — was predicated on the idea that all life is valuable, and that the worth of a person should not be judged by their appearance. Much of this was done through the old sci-fi trope of using aliens to stand in for oppressed groups, but Star Trek didn’t rely on the metaphor; it had characters who were part of the ensemble, important and beloved members of the Enterprise crew, who were people of colour. It had background characters who were people of colour. And, here and there, it had anti-heroes and villains who were people of colour … one of whom, Khan Noonian Singh, became well-nigh iconic.

And who is now being played by white actor Benedict Cumberbatch in the new JJ Abrams reboot movie, Star Trek: Into Darkness.

http://www.sikhnet.com/news/star-trek-whiteness-op-ed

[Brewinblue]

40. Well that certainly explains Roddenberry's decision

to cast a fair skinned, Mexican actor such as Montalban to play the role of an east Indian character.

As a person of Mexican descent, I suppose I should have been offended that it wasn't the "Wrath of Juan." Then again, why would I have wanted any connection to a criminally insane mutant. Yeah, it's best he be Asian. As that certainly would have improved the typical American's pre-conceived image of Asians in the mid sixties.

[MrScorpio]

44. From the article:

It wasn’t perfect in the 60s when Ricardo Montalbán was cast to play Khan (a character explicitly described in the episode script of Space Seed as being Sikh, from the Northern regions of India). But considering all of the barriers to representation that Roddenberry faced from the television networks, having a brown-skinned man play a brown character was a hard-won victory. It’s disappointing and demoralizing that with the commercial power of Star Trek in his hands, JJ Abrams chose not to honour the original spirit of the show, or the symbolic heft of the Khan character, but to wield the whitewash brush for … what? The hopes that casting Benedict Cumberbatch would draw in a few more box office returns? It’s doubly disappointing when you consider that Abrams was a creator of the television show Lost, which had so many well-rounded and beloved characters of colour in it.

Snip:

And that’s why the role has been taken away from actors of colour and given to a white man. Racebending.com has always pointed out that villains are generally played by people with darker skin, and that’s true … unless the villain is one with intelligence, depth, complexity. One who garners sympathy from the audience, or if not sympathy, then — as from Kirk — grudging admiration. What this new Trek movie tells us, what JJ Abrams is telling us, is that no brown-skinned man can accomplish all that. That only by having Khan played by a white actor can the audience engage with and feel for him, believe that he’s smart and capable and a match for our Enterprise crew.

What an enormous and horribly ironic step backwards. For Star Trek, for media representation, and for the vision of a future where we have transcended systemic, racist erasure.

[hunter]

29. I'd have called my grandfather "colorblind" living in a white neighborhood.

"Colorblind" at work for him, no problem -- white engineer, Asian engineer, black engineer... can he do the work?

Mostly he operated that way in ordinary life too. Friendly, civil, respected people. Colorblind.

Then I started dating, in his words, "A Mexican girl," and he was uncomfortable with that.

When I married this "Mexican girl" he was so uncomfortable he chose not to attend our wedding. (Fortunately he got past that.)

I grew up in an Ivory Soap 99 44?100% pure white community. There were all sorts of subtle and not so-subtle ways non-whites were excluded. DWBs were a police sport. The place is still like that in many ways. It's a largely Republican/Libertarian place and I'm guessing many people there would claim to be "colorblind." But how would they know? They are insulated from the multicultural world. They've never seen chicken feet in the butcher cases of their local supermarket

I met my wife in Los Angeles, mid-eighties, we were both public school science teachers. We taught in multi-cultural schools and we've lived in multicultural communities ever since. The community we live in now is mostly Mexican American with a very large population of black and Asian retired military personnel and their families. Now whenever I'm visiting "white" communities I experience some unease even though I'm white. When I was a kid living in those places I didn't feel anything was unusual. I was colorblind because there was very little color.

In no way am I colorblind now. The community I'm comfortable in, the community I call "mine" is multi-cultural.

[1awake]

33. hmmm

- Their daughter starts dating or even considers marrying a standard looking black or brown fellow.

I was with you until this. I would not handle it well. But then, color has nothing to do with it. I have two daughters and... well, in my limited reality nobody is gonna touch them... ever.

[denbot]

34. Other to me = both, color blind/multicultural

I really don't have a well defined difference between both concepts in my own head.

[BainsBane]

36. Nicely done

[BainsBane]

37. If we are to believe the "colorblind" folks, they wouldn't even notice.

Because like Colbert's character, they don't see race.
At least Colbert knows it's an absurdity.

[Jamaal510]

39. I chose "multicultural"

because I'm not sure if it is even possible for anybody to be colorblind (figuratively speaking). Though sociologists argue race does not exist and is a socially-constructed concept, numerous studies have shown that the vast majority of people contemplate race every now and then, and we live in a society that has been obsessed for a long time with dividing people into groups based on either their heritage or how much melanin they have in their skin.

[OutNow]

41. Your survey is about 25 years out of date

I don't belong to a church so that doesn't apply, but the other scenarios are sort of the norm. Oh, my daughter did date guys that were black and white, but she is biracial so that question is sorta silly for my family. Come to think of it, the survey is probably 40 years of out date.

I believe multiculturalism is more welcoming of change. Most, but not all, of the folks I've known who claimed to be colorblind actually weren't.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Some of those have happened where I live

We are fine with it. The neighbor who did not, no longer lives around here.