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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRussia might be "handling" Snowden as they have other agents in the past.
A former KGB agent who has been living in the UK in exile for decades believes Snowden might be getting the same treatment he did when the Soviets wanted information from him.
http://world.time.com/2013/07/10/snowden-in-moscow-what-are-russian-authorities-doing-with-the-nsa-whistleblower/
SNIP
So Gordievsky believes Snowden would have gotten roughly the same treatment that the KGB spy got back in 1985. They would have fed him something to loosen his tongue, Gordievsky says by phone from the U.K., where he has been living in exile for nearly three decades. Many different kinds of drugs are available, as I experienced for myself. Having been called back to Moscow, Gordievsky says his KGB comrades drugged him with a substance that turned out his lights and made him start talking in a very animated way. Although the drug wiped out most of his memory of the incident, the parts he did recollect horrified him the following morning, when he woke up feeling ill. I realized that I had completely compromised myself, he says.
One of the substances the KGB used for such purposes at the time was called SP-117, which is odorless, tasteless and colorless, according Alexander Kouzminov, a former Russian intelligence operative who describes the drugs effectiveness in his book, Biological Espionage. Now living in New Zealand, Kouzminov worked in the 1980s and early 1990s for the Foreign Intelligence Service, the spy agency known as the SVR, which handles undercover agents, or illegals, stationed in foreign countries. In his book, Kouzminov writes that various drugs were used periodically to test these operatives for signs of disloyalty or diversion. Once the drug had worn off, the agents would have no recollection of what they had said and, if their test results were satisfactory, they could be sent back into the field as though nothing had happened.
Although it is impossible to determine which of Russias secret services could be handling Snowdens case, Gordievsky believes it would be either the SVR or the Federal Agency for Government Communication and Information, known as FAPSI, which answers directly to the Kremlin. FAPSI is the Russian analogue to the U.S. National Security Agency, where Snowden worked as a contractor before fleeing to Hong Kong in May with a cache of the agencys files.
Most of the secrets Snowden has exposed are related to the NSAs vast surveillance programs, which he revealed to be collecting data on tens of millions of phone calls and Internet communications around the world. FAPSI, which operates its own data gathering stations in various countries, mostly in the former Soviet Union, would be keen to learn as much as possible about the work of its American counterpart. [Snowden] could have information about the internal parameters of these systems, their lists of targets and priorities, says Vladimir Rubanov, who headed the KGBs analytical directorate in 1991-1992, after which he served three years as deputy head of the Russian Security Council. Yes, all of this is pretty interesting, he says. And it is a fool who has the chance to get information and misses it.
SNIP
MjolnirTime
(1,800 posts)He chose to go to China.
He chose to go to Russia.
Why?
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)I will wait till we get some real information.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)If this is happening to him, we'll probably never hear about it.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)It is always noted that it is a couple of spooks talking(guessing what happened) They seem sure but really they are just guessing. There was a big to do about the NYT's going with the story without any kind of proof or perhaps it was the Post but they walked it back after they were ridiculed.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)Of course there is no proof of this, but it is awfully naive for anyone to think Russia hasn't been taking measures to get whatever they want from Snowden while he is there.
He has four computers full of classified documents about our surveillance systems and Russian isn't going after them?
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)It is all speculative.
Peace, Mojo
BenzoDia
(1,010 posts)Imagine sitting there talking to some dudes and then bam you're knocked silly saying whatever.
HipChick
(25,485 posts)no drugs needed
flamingdem
(39,313 posts)the hotel room. One with fewer bedbugs.
Wonder if we'll ever know if he accepted money.
Since Wikileaks is trying to get money it makes sense that Sarah would follow the direction of Assange in making it okay to do a little dealeo.
FSogol
(45,484 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)playing with the big boys (and no, not Assange or Greenwald). Serious people and institutions that play for keeps. My how far this has come since the cute spy fantasy Rubics Cube in the hotel lobby scene.
BenzoDia
(1,010 posts)hands on all of the info that's been too sensitive to show by the media.
How could they possibly pass this opportunity up?
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Any intelligence service that had a guy on the lam from its arguably biggest rival who was toting laptops and thumb drives full of classified info that didn't get that information would be purged and replaced with competent people.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)give this shit to an assassin to do your biding is one other bad application.
I am knocked right over - I haven't felt this creeped out since I went to see the Exorcist how many years ago.
mama!!!
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)HipChick
(25,485 posts)They just have to inform their agency 30 days beforehand, and get debriefed when they get back..
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)according to the crack armchair assessments here.
Why would they do that to a data thief?
Durr.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It would have been so much smarter to just welcome Snowden back home and let him go free. Being fired would have been enough punishment. Most Americans don't know what Snowden's revelations mean, and the countries that pose a threat to the US are, according to a lot of DUers doing the same thing.
It would have been win/win if the US had just forgiven Snowden and brought him back home.
Then they would not have to worry about who Snowden is talking to now.
Vengeance is often pretty stupid.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Now he is out there and who knows who he is talking to.
Smart is dealing with reality not with what you wish were reality.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)You guys have to make up your minds.
On one hand, the evil authoritarian U.S. regime will most certainly kill poor Snowden upon capture, you know, because he said it could happen.
On the other, the desperate (and now apparently stupid) bully Obama is not above a little friendly advice to pardon the thief who took secrets to China and Russia.
"Obama sucks - until he can do something for us!"
Whisp
(24,096 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Snowdens most likely destination now seems to be Latin America, where several countries namely Venezuela, Bolivia and Nicaragua have agreed to grant his asylum. But getting him there may be a slow affair. Snowdens U.S. passport was annulled in June, and it may take days or weeks for him to get new travel documents. That process, says Gordievsky, could be delayed if Russia feels it needs more time with the American. They will not let him go without turning him inside out, he says. But by now I think theyve gotten all they need from him. Theyve had plenty of time, which is why theyre letting him go so easily.
Read more: http://world.time.com/2013/07/10/snowden-in-moscow-what-are-russian-authorities-doing-with-the-nsa-whistleblower/#ixzz2YhqlSaU4
flamingdem
(39,313 posts)or from Wikileaks.
They haven't figured out how to get him to his destination or... Putin is not done with him.
Will we ever find out?
If he's paid that could be traced.
Sarah Harrison is supposed to be with him. Wonder if that protects him a tad.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)in peace. Are these secrets so important?
They took a gamble. If they let Snowden just live his life, Snowden would have continued talking. But since they declared a sort of fatwa against him, who knows what could happen to Snowden and his information.
Sometimes forgiveness is the best thing possible.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Where is Snowden? Why hasn't his companion checked in with her parents? Why is Assange "running the show" and speaking for the guy? Why is Greenwald bleating like he knows what's up, and none of his bleats come to pass?
Something is awry.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)That must have them concerned.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Admitting he was a bit of a political anorak, Mr Harrison said: We are just very, very nervous for our daughter...
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)people, let's talk about this surveillance, let's be democratic about it. What are the pros and cons? If the US had done that, no one would be worried about who else Snowden is talking to and what he is saying.
Strange how telling the world about these secrets about surveillance which I have been assured by DUers is done by all the rest of the countries and so nothing wrong with the US doing it warrants prosecution, but forging names on mortgages to make it easier to foreclose on homeowners is not worth even talking about much. No prosecutions for cheating homeowners.
Just kind of questionable values in my opinion.
Snowden violated a law. So did the banks. Who gets punished? Snowden or the bank CEOs?
Interesting issue of values.
If everybody is eavesdropping, why are people so concerned about what Snowden might be saying? The Russians may or may not be interested in what Snowden might know.
The US may or may not want them to be interested. In the world of intelligence, there sure is a lot of stupidity.
The Trojan Horse is a classic example of it.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Does he have--and has he given over--names of contacts? If they're Chinese, they're probably looking at the business end of a rope. If they're Russian, they've probably been given a mini-suite at Lefortovo.
Snowden's felonious conduct has absolutely NOTHING to do with "the banks." Nor does it have a thing to do with fraudulent mortgages.
It's just silly to even try to merge the crimes and conflate them in some odd way--one has nothing to do with the other. It's like saying "This guy stole your watch and got away with it, why shouldn't the guy who stole your wallet get the same treatment?"
The longer Snowden stays out of sight, the more I think he's being milked of his information like a cow--it may be coerced, or it may be voluntary, who really knows?
And when they're done with him, they'll fling him to the wind. He's either stupid or not thinking right. I'll bet he wishes he could have a do-over.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)and let him live quietly. It's called a plea bargain.
His father would have encouraged it.
I'm glad that Snowden told us what he did. He was trying to be very circumspect about what information was published.
The US government has not handled this wisely.
In particular, the calls from embassies about Morales' plane were really offensive to many people in South America.
We are a bit full of ourselves at times. It is better to be strategic and smart than to do what our government so often does.
MADem
(135,425 posts)He was spitting out secrets one after the next.
The one who hasn't handled this wisely is Snowden, IMO.
He's likely already given PLA Unit 61398 enough work for the next year or two, and who knows what the Russians have gotten from him?
You don't think Pootie Poot is a bit full of himself? And the Chinese, they keep a low profile, but they're laughing their asses off because they just ate our lunch and "free the secrets" Snowden served it to them.
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)Wow. Are there any lengths people will NOT go to put blame on the POTUS?
Yes, let's absolve all criminals of their wrongdoings, because if they suffer consequences, it'll be OUR fault. In this case, another failing of President Obama.
No sale.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)to protect the banks because of their role in the economy than to enforce the law.
That is a prosecutor's prerogative. The prosecutor has the discretion to decide who to prosecuted.
Leakers do not always get into trouble. Think of the Valerie Plame case. I know people say that it was Armitage who gave away the information. If so, why wasn't he prosecuted?
And who told Armitage? How did he know?
Prosecutors make deals with criminals all the time. It's called a plea bargain.
Obama and the NSA would have been smart to bring Snowden home right away by granting amnesty rather than having him in the world. Two reasons for that: 1) who knows, as this post points out, what more he might say and to whom? and 2) it would make the US look like very generous to people around the world who feel injured by the surveillance.
Remember. Some Americans may think that having our government snoop like this is just fine. But people in other countries, 99.99% of them completely innocent, are also having their privacy invaded, and they get nothing and never will get anything in exchange for that invasion of their privacy.
It is a gift to be able to see further than your nose.
It is a gift to be able to step into the shoes of another person of another nationality or in a very different situation from your own and look at the world from their perspective. I realize that we don't all have that gift, but it is a good thing to do.
It would seem to me that people in diplomacy or security or intelligence should have that gift. It would help them to interpret the information they obtain regardless of how it was obtained.
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)on your foundation of a whole lot of nothing.