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pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:15 PM Jul 2013

Russia might be "handling" Snowden as they have other agents in the past.

A former KGB agent who has been living in the UK in exile for decades believes Snowden might be getting the same treatment he did when the Soviets wanted information from him.

http://world.time.com/2013/07/10/snowden-in-moscow-what-are-russian-authorities-doing-with-the-nsa-whistleblower/

SNIP

So Gordievsky believes Snowden would have gotten roughly the same treatment that the KGB spy got back in 1985. “They would have fed him something to loosen his tongue,” Gordievsky says by phone from the U.K., where he has been living in exile for nearly three decades. “Many different kinds of drugs are available, as I experienced for myself.” Having been called back to Moscow, Gordievsky says his KGB comrades drugged him with a substance that “turned out his lights” and made him “start talking in a very animated way.” Although the drug wiped out most of his memory of the incident, the parts he did recollect horrified him the following morning, when he woke up feeling ill. “I realized that I had completely compromised myself,” he says.

One of the substances the KGB used for such purposes at the time was called SP-117, which is odorless, tasteless and colorless, according Alexander Kouzminov, a former Russian intelligence operative who describes the drug’s effectiveness in his book, Biological Espionage. Now living in New Zealand, Kouzminov worked in the 1980s and early 1990s for the Foreign Intelligence Service, the spy agency known as the SVR, which handles undercover agents, or “illegals,” stationed in foreign countries. In his book, Kouzminov writes that various drugs were used periodically to test these operatives for signs of disloyalty or diversion. Once the drug had worn off, the agents would have no recollection of what they had said and, if their test results were satisfactory, they could be sent back into the field as though nothing had happened.

Although it is impossible to determine which of Russia’s secret services could be handling Snowden’s case, Gordievsky believes it would be either the SVR or the Federal Agency for Government Communication and Information, known as FAPSI, which answers directly to the Kremlin. FAPSI is the Russian analogue to the U.S. National Security Agency, where Snowden worked as a contractor before fleeing to Hong Kong in May with a cache of the agency’s files.


Most of the secrets Snowden has exposed are related to the NSA’s vast surveillance programs, which he revealed to be collecting data on tens of millions of phone calls and Internet communications around the world. FAPSI, which operates its own data gathering stations in various countries, mostly in the former Soviet Union, would be keen to learn as much as possible about the work of its American counterpart. “[Snowden] could have information about the internal parameters of these systems, their lists of targets and priorities,” says Vladimir Rubanov, who headed the KGB’s analytical directorate in 1991-1992, after which he served three years as deputy head of the Russian Security Council. “Yes, all of this is pretty interesting,” he says. “And it is a fool who has the chance to get information and misses it.”



SNIP

43 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Russia might be "handling" Snowden as they have other agents in the past. (Original Post) pnwmom Jul 2013 OP
those who think Snowden is immune to this are willfully ignorant MjolnirTime Jul 2013 #1
Nice Weather. Katashi_itto Jul 2013 #13
their freedoms. at least they don't oppress people like Barack! Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #26
Speculation. Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #2
Do you think Russia or Snowden would be "transparent" about this? pnwmom Jul 2013 #15
This article has been posted in one form or another multiple times Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #17
This article is from Time, not the NYT or the Post, and it's dated today. pnwmom Jul 2013 #23
Nevertheless, it is the same article that has been posted many times. Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #43
Sounds scary. BenzoDia Jul 2013 #3
I wouldn't be surprized if he sang like a canary.. HipChick Jul 2013 #4
He'd spill the beans just to get an upgrade on flamingdem Jul 2013 #5
Don't worry, I'm sure Super Snowden will outsmart them all Ruskies! FSogol Jul 2013 #6
Snowden in the big leagues arely staircase Jul 2013 #7
Yeah I was thinking about it some. There is no doubt that the Russians would want to get their BenzoDia Jul 2013 #10
It is a no-brainer. Of course they would get it. They would be fools not to. arely staircase Jul 2013 #11
Scopololamine JaneyVee Jul 2013 #8
Jesus!!!! I watched the whole thing, start to finish---day-um!!!!!!!! nt MADem Jul 2013 #20
that is creepy beyond words. omg. Whisp Jul 2013 #37
People in certain lines of work are not allowed to travel to certain other countries FarCenter Jul 2013 #9
Even folks with TS clearance are allowed to travel to 'certain' other countries.. HipChick Jul 2013 #16
But no nation is as big and mean as the Evil U.S. Empire CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #12
Certainly none as stupid. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #21
Welcome him home after he shared documents with the Chinese newspapers? Unlikely. n/t pnwmom Jul 2013 #24
Would have been smart though. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #27
But wise. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #31
Welcome him back? And under what inducement would he have accepted? CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #30
setting that kind of precedent isn't so smart. n/t Whisp Jul 2013 #39
chilling arely staircase Jul 2013 #14
I think there are two reasons we're not hearing anything from Snowden flamingdem Jul 2013 #18
The US could have avoided all this had it simply invited Snowden to come home and live his life JDPriestly Jul 2013 #19
Are they important? We have to wonder if Putin thinks so.... MADem Jul 2013 #22
His companion was supposed to check in with her parents and hasn't been? pnwmom Jul 2013 #25
They were quoted in the paper more than a week ago as saying they were worried about her. MADem Jul 2013 #36
If the US had simply told him he could come home without a problem and said to the American JDPriestly Jul 2013 #28
Ever think that NSA now knows what he took, and it's worse than we realize? MADem Jul 2013 #34
The smart thing to do if they wanted to silence Snowden would have been to bring him home JDPriestly Jul 2013 #35
The Chinese and the Russians had him in their hot little hands. MADem Jul 2013 #38
Now it's the government's (Obama's) fault if something happens? CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #32
Apparently, when the banks violated laws, Obama's government felt it was more important JDPriestly Jul 2013 #33
Or not. dkf Jul 2013 #29
Are you really this scared a person? Your thread seems like a bunch of fear mongering to me based avaistheone1 Jul 2013 #40
The new DU - where conspiracy bullshit is fine as long as it fits a certain agenda... Democracyinkind Jul 2013 #41
I thought he was already living it up on Margarita Island at the expense of grateful Venezuelans alcibiades_mystery Jul 2013 #42
 

MjolnirTime

(1,800 posts)
1. those who think Snowden is immune to this are willfully ignorant
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:21 PM
Jul 2013

He chose to go to China.

He chose to go to Russia.

Why?

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
15. Do you think Russia or Snowden would be "transparent" about this?
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 12:22 AM
Jul 2013

If this is happening to him, we'll probably never hear about it.

Mojorabbit

(16,020 posts)
17. This article has been posted in one form or another multiple times
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 12:57 AM
Jul 2013

It is always noted that it is a couple of spooks talking(guessing what happened) They seem sure but really they are just guessing. There was a big to do about the NYT's going with the story without any kind of proof or perhaps it was the Post but they walked it back after they were ridiculed.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
23. This article is from Time, not the NYT or the Post, and it's dated today.
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 01:35 AM
Jul 2013

Of course there is no proof of this, but it is awfully naive for anyone to think Russia hasn't been taking measures to get whatever they want from Snowden while he is there.

He has four computers full of classified documents about our surveillance systems and Russian isn't going after them?



Mojorabbit

(16,020 posts)
43. Nevertheless, it is the same article that has been posted many times.
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 05:58 PM
Jul 2013

It is all speculative.
Peace, Mojo

BenzoDia

(1,010 posts)
3. Sounds scary.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:24 PM
Jul 2013

Imagine sitting there talking to some dudes and then bam you're knocked silly saying whatever.

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
5. He'd spill the beans just to get an upgrade on
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:43 PM
Jul 2013

the hotel room. One with fewer bedbugs.

Wonder if we'll ever know if he accepted money.

Since Wikileaks is trying to get money it makes sense that Sarah would follow the direction of Assange in making it okay to do a little dealeo.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
7. Snowden in the big leagues
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:53 PM
Jul 2013

playing with the big boys (and no, not Assange or Greenwald). Serious people and institutions that play for keeps. My how far this has come since the cute spy fantasy Rubics Cube in the hotel lobby scene.

BenzoDia

(1,010 posts)
10. Yeah I was thinking about it some. There is no doubt that the Russians would want to get their
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:20 PM
Jul 2013

hands on all of the info that's been too sensitive to show by the media.

How could they possibly pass this opportunity up?

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
11. It is a no-brainer. Of course they would get it. They would be fools not to.
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:25 PM
Jul 2013

Any intelligence service that had a guy on the lam from its arguably biggest rival who was toting laptops and thumb drives full of classified info that didn't get that information would be purged and replaced with competent people.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
37. that is creepy beyond words. omg.
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 02:33 AM
Jul 2013

give this shit to an assassin to do your biding is one other bad application.

I am knocked right over - I haven't felt this creeped out since I went to see the Exorcist how many years ago.


mama!!!

HipChick

(25,485 posts)
16. Even folks with TS clearance are allowed to travel to 'certain' other countries..
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 12:26 AM
Jul 2013

They just have to inform their agency 30 days beforehand, and get debriefed when they get back..

CakeGrrl

(10,611 posts)
12. But no nation is as big and mean as the Evil U.S. Empire
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:33 PM
Jul 2013

according to the crack armchair assessments here.

Why would they do that to a data thief?









Durr.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
21. Certainly none as stupid.
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 01:32 AM
Jul 2013

It would have been so much smarter to just welcome Snowden back home and let him go free. Being fired would have been enough punishment. Most Americans don't know what Snowden's revelations mean, and the countries that pose a threat to the US are, according to a lot of DUers doing the same thing.

It would have been win/win if the US had just forgiven Snowden and brought him back home.

Then they would not have to worry about who Snowden is talking to now.

Vengeance is often pretty stupid.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
27. Would have been smart though.
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 01:38 AM
Jul 2013

Now he is out there and who knows who he is talking to.

Smart is dealing with reality not with what you wish were reality.

CakeGrrl

(10,611 posts)
30. Welcome him back? And under what inducement would he have accepted?
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 01:54 AM
Jul 2013

You guys have to make up your minds.

On one hand, the evil authoritarian U.S. regime will most certainly kill poor Snowden upon capture, you know, because he said it could happen.

On the other, the desperate (and now apparently stupid) bully Obama is not above a little friendly advice to pardon the thief who took secrets to China and Russia.

"Obama sucks - until he can do something for us!"

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
14. chilling
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 12:03 AM
Jul 2013

Snowden’s most likely destination now seems to be Latin America, where several countries — namely Venezuela, Bolivia and Nicaragua — have agreed to grant his asylum. But getting him there may be a slow affair. Snowden’s U.S. passport was annulled in June, and it may take days or weeks for him to get new travel documents. That process, says Gordievsky, could be delayed if Russia feels it needs more time with the American. “They will not let him go without turning him inside out,” he says. “But by now I think they’ve gotten all they need from him. They’ve had plenty of time, which is why they’re letting him go so easily.”

Read more: http://world.time.com/2013/07/10/snowden-in-moscow-what-are-russian-authorities-doing-with-the-nsa-whistleblower/#ixzz2YhqlSaU4

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
18. I think there are two reasons we're not hearing anything from Snowden
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 01:09 AM
Jul 2013

or from Wikileaks.

They haven't figured out how to get him to his destination or... Putin is not done with him.

Will we ever find out?

If he's paid that could be traced.

Sarah Harrison is supposed to be with him. Wonder if that protects him a tad.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
19. The US could have avoided all this had it simply invited Snowden to come home and live his life
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 01:29 AM
Jul 2013

in peace. Are these secrets so important?

They took a gamble. If they let Snowden just live his life, Snowden would have continued talking. But since they declared a sort of fatwa against him, who knows what could happen to Snowden and his information.

Sometimes forgiveness is the best thing possible.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
22. Are they important? We have to wonder if Putin thinks so....
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 01:34 AM
Jul 2013

Where is Snowden? Why hasn't his companion checked in with her parents? Why is Assange "running the show" and speaking for the guy? Why is Greenwald bleating like he knows what's up, and none of his bleats come to pass?

Something is awry.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
25. His companion was supposed to check in with her parents and hasn't been?
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 01:37 AM
Jul 2013

That must have them concerned.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
36. They were quoted in the paper more than a week ago as saying they were worried about her.
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 02:28 AM
Jul 2013
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2351726/Were-proud-Wikileaks-daughter-say-family-British-blonde-went-run-CIA-whistleblower.html

In her first interview, Jennifer Harrison, 62, spoke of her deep fears for her daughter’s safety, but told The Mail on Sunday: ‘I am very proud of my daughter.....Mr Harrison, 74, appeared more bewildered to be in the spotlight.
Admitting he was a ‘bit of a political anorak’, Mr Harrison said: ‘We are just very, very nervous for our daughter...




JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
28. If the US had simply told him he could come home without a problem and said to the American
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 01:44 AM
Jul 2013

people, let's talk about this surveillance, let's be democratic about it. What are the pros and cons? If the US had done that, no one would be worried about who else Snowden is talking to and what he is saying.

Strange how telling the world about these secrets about surveillance which I have been assured by DUers is done by all the rest of the countries and so nothing wrong with the US doing it warrants prosecution, but forging names on mortgages to make it easier to foreclose on homeowners is not worth even talking about much. No prosecutions for cheating homeowners.

Just kind of questionable values in my opinion.

Snowden violated a law. So did the banks. Who gets punished? Snowden or the bank CEOs?

Interesting issue of values.

If everybody is eavesdropping, why are people so concerned about what Snowden might be saying? The Russians may or may not be interested in what Snowden might know.

The US may or may not want them to be interested. In the world of intelligence, there sure is a lot of stupidity.

The Trojan Horse is a classic example of it.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
34. Ever think that NSA now knows what he took, and it's worse than we realize?
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 02:17 AM
Jul 2013

Does he have--and has he given over--names of contacts? If they're Chinese, they're probably looking at the business end of a rope. If they're Russian, they've probably been given a mini-suite at Lefortovo.

Snowden's felonious conduct has absolutely NOTHING to do with "the banks." Nor does it have a thing to do with fraudulent mortgages.

It's just silly to even try to merge the crimes and conflate them in some odd way--one has nothing to do with the other. It's like saying "This guy stole your watch and got away with it, why shouldn't the guy who stole your wallet get the same treatment?"

The longer Snowden stays out of sight, the more I think he's being milked of his information like a cow--it may be coerced, or it may be voluntary, who really knows?

And when they're done with him, they'll fling him to the wind. He's either stupid or not thinking right. I'll bet he wishes he could have a do-over.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
35. The smart thing to do if they wanted to silence Snowden would have been to bring him home
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 02:21 AM
Jul 2013

and let him live quietly. It's called a plea bargain.

His father would have encouraged it.

I'm glad that Snowden told us what he did. He was trying to be very circumspect about what information was published.

The US government has not handled this wisely.

In particular, the calls from embassies about Morales' plane were really offensive to many people in South America.

We are a bit full of ourselves at times. It is better to be strategic and smart than to do what our government so often does.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
38. The Chinese and the Russians had him in their hot little hands.
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 02:33 AM
Jul 2013

He was spitting out secrets one after the next.

The one who hasn't handled this wisely is Snowden, IMO.

He's likely already given PLA Unit 61398 enough work for the next year or two, and who knows what the Russians have gotten from him?

You don't think Pootie Poot is a bit full of himself? And the Chinese, they keep a low profile, but they're laughing their asses off because they just ate our lunch and "free the secrets" Snowden served it to them.

CakeGrrl

(10,611 posts)
32. Now it's the government's (Obama's) fault if something happens?
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 01:58 AM
Jul 2013

Wow. Are there any lengths people will NOT go to put blame on the POTUS?

Yes, let's absolve all criminals of their wrongdoings, because if they suffer consequences, it'll be OUR fault. In this case, another failing of President Obama.

No sale.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
33. Apparently, when the banks violated laws, Obama's government felt it was more important
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 02:13 AM
Jul 2013

to protect the banks because of their role in the economy than to enforce the law.

That is a prosecutor's prerogative. The prosecutor has the discretion to decide who to prosecuted.

Leakers do not always get into trouble. Think of the Valerie Plame case. I know people say that it was Armitage who gave away the information. If so, why wasn't he prosecuted?

And who told Armitage? How did he know?

Prosecutors make deals with criminals all the time. It's called a plea bargain.

Obama and the NSA would have been smart to bring Snowden home right away by granting amnesty rather than having him in the world. Two reasons for that: 1) who knows, as this post points out, what more he might say and to whom? and 2) it would make the US look like very generous to people around the world who feel injured by the surveillance.

Remember. Some Americans may think that having our government snoop like this is just fine. But people in other countries, 99.99% of them completely innocent, are also having their privacy invaded, and they get nothing and never will get anything in exchange for that invasion of their privacy.

It is a gift to be able to see further than your nose.

It is a gift to be able to step into the shoes of another person of another nationality or in a very different situation from your own and look at the world from their perspective. I realize that we don't all have that gift, but it is a good thing to do.

It would seem to me that people in diplomacy or security or intelligence should have that gift. It would help them to interpret the information they obtain regardless of how it was obtained.

 

avaistheone1

(14,626 posts)
40. Are you really this scared a person? Your thread seems like a bunch of fear mongering to me based
Thu Jul 11, 2013, 02:50 AM
Jul 2013

on your foundation of a whole lot of nothing.

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