President Obama said "No wheeling of dealing to extradite Snowden"

[cali]

Does anyone actually believe that the U.S. had nothing to do with the grounding of President Morales plane in Vienna?

I'll leave it to you to decide if the President lied.


What a shameful episode this was.

[vdogg]

1. Oh come on...

Even for you that's tortured logic. It seems that you're far more interested in finding yet one more thing to blame the President for than the actual facts of the situation.

Fact 1: The President has absolutely no control over French or Portugese airspace.
Fact 2: The French are denying that they refused entry to their airspace, looks like the initial reports were inaccurate (surprise, surprise!)

This whole "incident" is much ado about nothing.

[cali]

2. yeah, the U.S. has no influence whatsoever

c'mon. I have no idea who you are, but that's absurd by any standard.

[idwiyo]

4. I am amused of the number of newbies that materialise seemingly out of nowhere every damn single

There is another scandal that might negatively affect the US admin.

[vdogg]

7. Newbie

Would be incorrect. I've been a lurker for a long time however and when I see crap like this I feel compelled to post. A lot of people seem to be running around with their hair on fire and throwing themselves upon the altar of Snowden. No one seems really interested in fact or nuance anymore. And some people seem to react with absolute glee at the mere prospect of anything damaging Obama. I, like you, am merely expressing my opinion. You are free to disagree.

[idwiyo]

8. Thank you for confirming my point.

[cali]

9. one thing I haven't done, my dear, is "throw myself on the altar of Snowden"

I don't find him a heroic figure. I don't think he's acquitted himself particularly well in his post revelation behavior. I've said from the get go that this is not about Snowden. It's about the national security state, massive surveillance and our national dialog about it. I've posted little about Snowden and a great deal about the national security state and the NSA.

That said, I've made it clear that I hope Snowden does get asylum because I think its all too possible that he'd be mistreated or tortured here- just as Bradley Manning has, and I have my doubts that he could get a fair trial.

I take NO joy in anything damaging Obama.

But whatever. Continue your contemptible bullshit; wrongly ascribing things to me. It's vile and disgusting, but hey, it seems to be your thing.

There I've disagreed with your crap.

[ljm2002]

20. Regarding your "Fact" 2:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/07/03/evo-morales-controversial-flight-over-europe-minute-by-heavily-disputed-minute/

“There was contradictory information about the identity of the passengers aboard one or two aircraft, because there was also a doubt about the number of planes that wanted to fly over France,” French President Francois Hollande said in Germany, apparently allowing the possibility that the flight had been denied permission. “As soon as I knew that it was the plane of Bolivia’s president, I immediately gave my authorization for the overflight.”

So the President of France admits giving authorization for the overflight.

Why was the President required to give authorization? That means the overflight was NOT authorized to begin with, and the French denials are, well, just more lies.

[randome]

3. It wasn't Obama who caused an earlier incident with Snowden's travel pass.

The environment with Snowden is rife with little spy wannabes. Now who would benefit over a diplomatic incident with Bolivia? Hmm...

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[graham4anything]

5. I trust the President 100%. I don't trust the media any percent.

The President works for the people and he has zero ulterior motives.

However-

The major and minor league media works for their paychecks.

When they got rid of Dan Rather, they got rid of the media.

Besides, as everyone compares him to Ellsberg, Ellsberg stayed and went to trial. He didn't go anywhere.

What would be so wrong with that?

Ellsberg is free and like Oliver North, who also stayed and went to trial, both are heroes.

[randome]

6. Someone pointed out that Snowden could get away with a 36 month sentence.

Hardly seems worth all this effort to keep alive the fiction that PowerPoint presentations will bring down the government.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Bonobo]

10. Did you just say that Oliver North was a hero?

I have to copy your post below in case you decide to delete it.

As Shakespeare and Chaucer said. "Murder will out"
-------------------------------------------
graham4anything
5. I trust the President 100%. I don't trust the media any percent.

The President works for the people and he has zero ulterior motives.

However-

The major and minor league media works for their paychecks.

When they got rid of Dan Rather, they got rid of the media.

Besides, as everyone compares him to Ellsberg, Ellsberg stayed and went to trial. He didn't go anywhere.

What would be so wrong with that?

Ellsberg is free and like Oliver North, who also stayed and went to trial, both are heroes.

[graham4anything]

11. yes, to 50% of the people on Fox. To Rand Paul, To Ron Paul, Jolly Ollie is a hero.

Snowden should give himself up, go to trial, and maybe he can run for the Senate of Virginia like Ollie did after the ACLU
got Ollie's charges thrown out.
And work with the system like Joe the Plummer.

[Bonobo]

13. Whew, it sounded EXACTLY like YOU said he was a hero.

I'm glad I heard it wrong because it would take a major idiot to call that guy anything but a traitorous piece of shit who crapped all over the Constitution while in uniform.

[graham4anything]

16. and the ACLU made it impossible to prosecute any 41 people due to their freeing him, alas.

Ollie played the system, 41 played the system and the ACLU unwittingly secured the vessel to never be able to
do anything to the 41 team and yes, Ollie is a hero to many. Same as some think Robert E. Lee is a hero and Jefferson Davis is a hero.

Not me. I consider LBJ a hero and the #1 best President ever. Some hate him for some reason.

That is America. We all have our heroes and don't have to agree, now do we?

[Bonobo]

17. Sorry I couldn't read after the phrase "securing the vessel". I was lost at that point.

graham4anything
16. and the ACLU made it impossible to prosecute any 41 people due to their freeing him, alas.

Ollie played the system, 41 played the system and the ACLU unwittingly secured the vessel to never be able to
do anything to the 41 team and yes, Ollie is a hero to many. Same as some think Robert E. Lee is a hero and Jefferson Davis is a hero.

Not me. I consider LBJ a hero and the #1 best President ever. Some hate him for some reason.

That is America. We all have our heroes and don't have to agree, now do we?

[graham4anything]

18. I said LBJ is the #1 president of all time.

We can agree to disagree if you don't think so.

And it goes without saying, If I think LBJ is the #1 best, then it goes without saying.

[The Link]

14. So who would Snowden be a hero to?

[HardTimes99]

26. Interestng that you ask. If memory serves, some of the early polling on DU had Snowden's

'heoric' stature at around 70-75%. I haven't seen any of those polls recently, so hard to know whether opinions have slipped.

Excellent question, btw, that inserts the stiletto quite deftly into the core of his argument.

[Union Scribe]

15. "work with the system like Joe the Plummer"

To be clear, you think Snowden should be more like... "Joe the Plummer." I feel like I ate lead paint chips after I read that.

[cali]

12. seriously, don't bother. dealing with that hot mess word salad

isn't worth your time. I finally gave the hell up responding to that nonsense.

[LittleBlue]

24. This forum is infiltrated

by trolls or Freepers. No progressive would say something like that.

[HardTimes99]

22. Oliver North is a 'hero'? Is this Democratic Underground or some weird

Twilight Zone version of same?

[Gravitycollapse]

25. Holy hell. Oliver North is not a hero by any stretch of the imagination.

[Recursion]

29. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he thinks North blew the whistle on Iran Contra

The right seems to have snuck that meme into the public consciousness somehow.

[Recursion]

28. Did you just call Ollie North a hero? (nt)

[cali]

19. kick in light of further revelations

[HardTimes99]

21. K & R - nt

[allin99]

23. On one hand he keeps telling countries there will be serious consequences, and then he says...

no wheeling and dealing. Threats and blackmail aren't exactly the same wheeling and dealing but it comes pretty close.

[HooptieWagon]

27. Obama lied...

...I guess we're getting used to it. Still trying to figure out how he's differrent than *.