Raise your hand if you enjoyed/cheered when that guy threw a shoe at George W. Bush.

[WilliamPitt]

I did. You did. And you. And you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you, and also you.

So hush already about how bad hecklers are.

The idea that our leaders are not living gods who cannot be ruffled by the peons in the peanut gallery, and the idea that breaking through our scripted spoon-fed media reality with a well-timed shout can have positive side-effects, are healthy aspects of a free society. There are no hecklers in North Korea, and that's a bad thing.

Besides, you totally loved the shoe guy. There's probably lots of proof of that right here in the DU archives.

So.

[William769]

1. You do realize this is one OP that may not get many records.

Got to keep those double standards going.

[WilliamPitt]

5. ?

Thanks for the kick, tho.

[William769]

7. I also recorded the OP.

I was just pointing out the fact thats it's ok to do it to the other guy but not vise versa.

[WilliamPitt]

15. Still not following.

[RobertEarl]

19. They are throwing shoes at you?

[WilliamPitt]

21. My confusion deepens.

[Travelman]

127. Has to be "recommend" instaed of "record."

As though it wasn't confusing enough having William talking to William about confusion....


ETA: just saw TalkingDog's post. Pardon me while I facepalm.

[TalkingDog]

20. Lost in Translation: Rec = Recording. But should = Recommend.

Language is only so flexible before the inevitable misunderstanding creeps in.

[tavalon]

268. Yes, Will, thank you

I get so tired of the double standards. I'm sorry that the FLOTUS had a hard time but she took the job right along with her husband and it comes with that sort of shit.

[Tarheel_Dem]

39. Bookmarking for when the "shoes" come hurling at Hillary.

[William769]

42. She is strong enough to take it.

She has proven time & time again.

[Tarheel_Dem]

47. I know, she's dodged "sniper fire" on many occasions. Right?

[William769]

57. She did what many have tried and failed at

The right wing.

Just go back to the 90's and then go through till this year.

I love this lady and will do everything in my power to get her elected as President of the United States if she so chooses.

[DonCoquixote]

105. ah yes Saint Hillary

she of nafta, she of the keystone pipeline, she that supports outsourcing, she that defendeth israel. I will admit, she did some good things, but that was before she let her stupid husband allow Fox to eat the airwaves. I will vote for her if she is the nominee, but I look forward to those that thought she was Joan of Arc on steroids do a doiblte take, when she throws them under the bus, nevermind, they will say it is Obama's fault.

[Whisp]

156. add the Honduras coup to that list.

No wonder she and blood garble Kissinger hit it off so well together. She's just practicing up for when gets to sit in the Big Chair.

[JDPriestly]

254. Bill Clinton also fell under Greenspan's spell. Hocus, pocus if there

ever was any. And then allowed himself to be talked into Repealing Glass-Steagall. He shares some of the blame for our 2008 economic meltdown. And I do not believe that Hillary knows any more about our economy or understands economics than Clinton did.

[indivisibleman]

197. actually she did dodge sniper fire.

Go check out the reports. She was being honest about the dangers of her job in a general way. Would you like her job? I know I wouldn't.

[Tarheel_Dem]

200. You're full of crap. She made that claim when she was running in '08, and no one could confirm it..

not even the people on the trip with her. Her "job", as you put it, was First Lady, long before she became S.O.S. Not to minimize her role as S.O.S., but the only reports of her dodging anything was some eggs thrown by some Egyptian protestors.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2062570/Anti-U-S-mob-attacks-Hillary-Clintons-convoy-armed-eggs-paintballs-rocks-Philippines.html

[indivisibleman]

206. You are full of crap. Here is her explanation of her statement.

The whole thing is a big hootenanny around a generalization that she made.

"Now let me tell you what I can remember, OK -- because what I was told was that we had to land a certain way and move quickly because of the threat of sniper fire. So I misspoke -- I didn't say that in my book or other times but if I said something that made it seem as though there was actual fire -- that's not what I was told," she told the newspaper.

"I was told we had to land a certain way, we had to have our bulletproof stuff on because of the threat of sniper fire. I was also told that the greeting ceremony had been moved away from the tarmac but that there was this 8-year-old girl and, I can't, I can't rush by her, I've got to at least greet her -- so I greeted her, I took her stuff and then I left. Now that's my memory of it."

She was referring to a true event seen through her eyes. She was not lying. She was being honest and you along with many others are laughing about your own false interpretation.

[Tarheel_Dem]

228. Well alrighty then. I guess you told me.

NOT!!!!

[MADem]

62. Michelle Obama is a role model but NOT one of "our leaders." Hillary was, and may be again.

When you're on the public payroll, you take the brickbats (or shoes). When you're not, you don't.

That's what's wrong with this OP. It makes reference to how "our leaders" are not gods. Well, Michelle Obama is not a god, but she's not one of "our leaders" either. She is the wife of the top dog leader, and she was treated rudely by someone who didn't help their own cause.

[Tarheel_Dem]

79. MADem, you are spot on, as usual. The heckler got attention, but it's mostly negative attention.

Medea got a day and a half of ink, and then she returned to obscurity. The actions of the heckler won't help her get what she claims to want, in fact it may produce the exact opposite. I can't think of a first couple who have been disrespected more by supposed allies. I think Michelle's restraint, in this instance, is a testament to her growth as a 1st class First Lady.

Truth be told, I think "Activists" care more about having "an issue", than actually resolving "an issue", if you catch my drift.

[MADem]

110. I'm disappointed in the whole OP, frankly.

This part, particularly: So hush already about how bad hecklers are.

Aside from the fact that ambushing spouses at a private event is "low class," rude, nasty and is in no way equivalent to a reporter tossing shoes at a POTUS, I think the whole "Hush" if you don't see things my way comment is condescending in the extreme.

It's obvious that people have differing views on this, and as I said, I wouldn't go for a shoe being thrown at Laura Bush or Pat Nixon, either--even more so when the event was an intimate one in a private home.

[Dorian Gray]

264. I agree with this

But I err on the side of overly polite at times. I would never throw a shoe at anyone, including the POTUS, no matter how much I disagree with his politics and think he's an evil mess.

And Michele at at fundraiser is not the same as the President at a fundraiser. I'd prefer to see public protest against the politician instead of his wife. It does make me uncomfortable.

[calimary]

133. Agreed. GREAT point you make, Tarheel_Dem.

Hecklers often shit on their own causes when they act out. I've got to admit that I was disturbed by Medea Benjamin's ONGOING heckling of President Obama. It's one thing when you blurt something out. But when you go on and on and on and on and on - like that breitbart asshole did during Anthony Weiner's press conference when (if memory serves) he was conceding and stepping down, it starts to make THEM look bad and takes the attention away from the message they were pushing. That bothered me a lot with Medea, BUT, when I saw the photos of her and another Code Pink member posing and smiling with their big handmade valentine to rand paul of all people (rand fucking paul????????) I just lost it. And Code Pink lost my support. I unsubscribed from their emails and I don't want to hear anything more from them for awhile. They just shat on their own cause.

rand fucking paul???????? They're sending valentines to rand fucking paul???????? Are they NUTS?????? I posted here about it recently - that if Medea Benjamin and friends think rand paul is ANY friend of theirs, they're more deluded than the Pox News audience.

And I'm sorry, but Medea Benjamin is no novice. She's been around long enough to know who the real enemy is.

[eilen]

270. I believe Code Pink looks upon Rand Paul as a "useful idiot" in the Brennan matter. nt.

[RobertEarl]

136. Catch your Drift?

More like caught your drivel.

For your information, before an activist can resolve and issue, there must first be an issue. Which is 180 degrees from your drivel of:

"Activists" care more about having "an issue", than actually resolving "an issue"


As a proud Democratic Party activist of the type that you seem to have intense scorn for, it behooves me to tell you to Can it, you are not helping us fight the republicans.

[Tarheel_Dem]

142. "you are not helping us fight the republicans".

You guys claim to have forgotten who the "republicans" are. "Gore=Bush=Obama" has been the growing consensus, on the outer reaches of "the left" since circa 2000. You guys are clownish at this point.

[RobertEarl]

172. We Democratic Party Activists are clownish?

Last edited Wed Jun 5, 2013, 06:44 PM - Edit history (1)

And then you sling shit? You are the one acting clownish, to use a 'nice' term.

Are you not a Democratic Party activist? I doubt it considering your attacks here. I gather that you are one of those southern dinos we hear about but so rarely see on DU.

Well, we end up fighting you people, too. Too bad you can't get with the program, we might have won already had the southern dinos just gracefully canned it. You should join us in our fight for equality and justice.

[cui bono]

248. Exactly.

But you won't get far with this one. Iirc, s/he will not tolerate any criticism of POTUS in any way shape or form. Sadly, there's too many like that on here. DINO's really, who only care about the team and not the principles it's supposed to stand for.

[Tarheel_Dem]

149. Here, perhaps this will "pacify" you. Is this your idea of "fighting the republicans"?

[Tarheel_Dem]

187. And having met you now, I see you seem to be a DU'er full of "EMPTY" rhetoric. I don't follow...

journals, NEVER did. You seem to have an awful lot of downtime in your "ACTIVISM". Nothing more pathetic than a self-appointed, egomaniacal "activist". Of course, that's what I call 'em in polite society. Glad to know that typing crap, or "journal-ing" on DU now counts as "activism". Do you get tax exempt status for that?

[RobertEarl]

189. No, journals are like cloth

And you are nekkid. No, not nekkid, your words here attacking activists show you to be clothed. White sheet it looks like from here. Am I wrong?

[Summer Hathaway]

195. White sheet?

I'm pretty sure what that phrase was meant to insinuate - but maybe you'd like to attempt to clarify?

[Tarheel_Dem]

204. My Mama would've kicked my ass if I messed up her "white sheets", being black and all.

[Summer Hathaway]

205. I should have known

you'd crack me up, T-D!

I guess our friend above is too busy posting to his journal to respond ...

[Tarheel_Dem]

227. He's probably off somewhere making more wrong ASSumptions.

[cui bono]

251. That's not cool. n/t

[cui bono]

250. Unfortunately, Paul was right about what he was saying about drones

when he filibustered. Of course, we know he was just grandstanding. And the problem with that pic you posted is the same problem with most people, even on DU. Someone makes a comment we like and all of a sudden there's a dozen threads about how great they are and they're our new hero, no matter that they've said stupid things that would've been disagreed with wholeheartedly in the recent past.

I can see the point they're trying to make but I agree that pic is a poor way to make it.

[quakerboy]

143. How about Jay Carney?

He doesn't lead anything. He was never elected.

But he is standing in as a surrogate for the president.

Was Michelle Obama doing her own thing, independent of her husband, For her own personal political agenda and causes? If so, then someone heckling her over a different persons doings is pointless and I agree with you.

Was the First Lady doing a political event, raising money or awareness or support for her husbands agenda, acting as a surrogate for him? Was she, of her own free will, participating in the political process, specifically putting herself out there to support President Obama's agenda, drawing on her connection to the president to make this event? Then your point is silly.

I don't know. I haven't really followed this event, I don't know who heckled her or why, and in the end, this seems like a tempest in a tea pot. People heckle public speakers. But it all seems pretty simple to me. Either she was there as Michelle, or she was there as the First Lady. And either way, should be expected to be treated accordingly, with all the Benefits and Detriments of either.

[MADem]

148. Is Jay a family member? Does he get a paycheck? Is that paycheck from the US govt?

Last edited Wed Jun 5, 2013, 03:54 PM - Edit history (1)

She was in a private home, raising dough for candidates by giving a speech that focused on underprivileged kids. She was using her FLOTUS cred to get money out of people for a worthy cause. She was interrupted in mid-sentence with a demand that she tell her husband what to do.

The protester was an asshole, chock full of wrong place, wrong time and wrong target, and is getting some DESERVED pushback today.

You should do a little homework first, and ask questions later, rather than suggesting that my point is "silly." What's silly is this protester thinking that screaming at FLOTUS was going to incline her towards supporting the protester's cause. "Fuck you and get outta my face," is what she was probably thinking--she did a good job of holding her temper in check.

[quakerboy]

165. Did you even read my post?

Why should I research something, that frankly, seems unimportant to me?

What I said was, if she was there to act as a surrogate for the president, she should be treated as such.
And if she was there as herself, for some other cause, she should be treated as such.

By what you say, it sounds like she was there as her own person, raising money for underprivileged kids, and not as a political surrogate for the president. She should have been treated as such.

[MADem]

170. She wasn't there to "act as a surrogate for the President."

And I did read your post, rambling as it was.

She was there as a person interested in the plight of inner city children, who came to that venue with the perspective that we need to elect people who will HELP that segment of our society.

She was there as FLOTUS with "her" issue. The heckler was out of line and this entire thread, the premise of the OP, particularly, is stupid. If we're going to say that any time a FLOTUS speaks at a fundraiser, or even in support of her husband's agenda, that she should be "treated as such," (meaning with the same imprimatur as the elected official), then what we are saying is that it's perfectly wonderful for a protester to slam Laura Bush with a couple of penny loafers....because, ya know, that's hilarious and everyone supposedly loved it, and there's no difference between an unpaid woman who happens to be married to a politician, and the politician himself.

I can't believe how many recs this dumb OP got. it's just an awful, ignorant construct.

[quakerboy]

217. I was actually agreeing with you

But that's beside the point, I guess. I must be a cheerleader without reservation or thought, or I deserve excoriation. Ive been trying to stay out of these things, but sometimes my need for thoughtful consideration overcomes that better sense that tells me to stay out of the way of fanatics of any stripe.


That said, this is very different from the shoe in so many ways as to made the comparison ridiculous.

A shoe and some words are very different. A shoe can physically damage, that is an assault rather than an annoyance.

That said, if Laura had gone to Iraq, as a representative of the Bush policy of Murdering Iraqis, I would say she would be a perfectly valid target for public disruption.

I struggle with whether a shoe was ok in that context. The man had to know he would be beaten and was putting his own physical well being into jeopardy for a mostly symbolic gesture, which while possible to injure bush, was very unlikely to do so. But standing in an invaded country, blood on his soul, I fail to see why it would make any difference whether it was George or anyone else he delegated to speak for him.

[MADem]

229. This entire thread is comparing those words aimed at Michelle to those shoes thrown at Porgie.

Re-read the OP. Look at how many "recs" this sick post got. The OP is saying shoes and words are the same thing, and tee-hee-hee ain't it funny. And you and you and you think so, because the OP has declared that to be his truth. Well, it ain't my truth.

But hey, all you have to do is click on the recs to see the names of those who agrees with that sick premise.

Laura, like Michelle, was not a paid representative of the US government. She was a spouse of an official. And Laura didn't give policy speeches on Iraq, ever. Nor has Michelle done anything but tout, in a positive fashion, causes like fitness, childhood health, support for military families, good food choices, and -- as in this instance--support for inner city youth.

Is it "OK" then, to berate any spouse of a politician, speaking on any topic, about something you want their other half to do? Go yell at Eric Holder's wife while she's buying underwear at Target. Take out Harry Reid's wife while she's picking up the drycleaning....yeah, that's the ticket. I thought the GOP were the crude, rude, "uncivil assholes" party????

The hosts of this party where Michelle was giving her "non-policy" speech on how we need to give a shit about urban kids in poverty, per Larry O'Donnell's show, were a married lesbian couple. Plainly they didn't have a problem tossing this tone-deaf shit-stirrer out. Perhaps the disruptor thought that her hosts wouldn't mind her fucking up their party, just because of their orientation...? Maybe that's why she was "taken aback?" If she thought she was going to incite a "Yeah--what about your HUSBAND!!!!" riot at this little soiree, she got schooled as she got thrown out on her ass.

I think this not-brave person needs to find a way to confront Speaker Boehner and his crowd of crony-haters. That'll give her some "cred." Right now, she's just an attention mongering asshole, yelling at people who want true Equality, not half-stepping measures that could be stripped away (like federal stem cell research was for eight long years under Dumbya) with a change in Presidents. Talk about something to cry about!

Put an "executive order" bandaid on employment non-discrimination issues, and three years from now, that bandaid could fall off....and then we'd be right back where we are now.

Let's FIX it--and the way to fix it is to make Boehner's life, and the lives of his crony-haters, miserable. The more people are aware of their hate-filled views, the more people who have a son, daughter, brother, sister, or parent who is gay will realize that these GOP assholes are discriminating against THEIR loved ones. This bullshit of blaming the Democrats for a problem that only the GOP--since they OWN the House and all law starts there--can fix, needs to STOP.

I'm sick of it.

[William769]

150. Heres where we come to disagree.

When your at a public even like say a DNC fundraiser (like this was), your fair game. If she had not been there at a public event she would not have been asked the question.

Sorry but thats how I see it.

[MADem]

157. Ready---FIRE---Aim.

You heckle people who are OPPOSED to your POV. Not people who are on the same page.

The Obamas are supportive of Equality in all its forms. If Obama signs an executive order, that just gives Congress reason and excuse to NOT ACT. It takes the pressure off demanding real change, it provides NO urgency as a campaigning issue in 2014.

Further, Michelle Obama is NOT an elected official. She gets no government paycheck. She was speaking about providing funding for inner-city kids that evening. Her focus and emphasis was on that issue, and how we need more people who are on that page in Congress.

Screaming at her isn't going to make her want to either hear what her heckler was griping about, or repeat it to her husband.

Sorry Bill--this was a Major, Massive FAIL. Wrong place, wrong time, wrong target. I was viscerally offended by it, and I'm not the only one.

When these Bravehearts start heckling Boehner, I'll be impressed. But they don't DARE, EVER--and I notice that, too.

No guts, no glory. Go after the lawmakers--not the wife of the President giving a speech about poor kids.

[Whisp]

161. great posts, MADem

straight talk.

[madokie]

223. And spot on I might add

[MADem]

225. Thank you. I learned from Larry O'Donnell tonight that the hosts of this shindig were a married,

lesbian couple.

They didn't have a problem tossing this disruptor out on her ass, and they're as invested in Equality issues as any citizens of our fine land. No wonder the protester was "taken aback." She probably had some halfassed idea that she'd turn a little garden party with a speech about inner city youth into a "Torches an Pitchforks" party aimed at the FLOTUS. She got her ass schooled.

There's a time and a place for everything. That wasn't the time, that wasn't the place, and Michelle Obama sure as hell was the wrong doggone target!

[Number23]

240. Nailed it. Which is one reason this OP makes no sense

Why would you compare an Iraqi journalist throwing a shoe at the bastard who destroyed your country to someone heckling Michelle Obama about a policy she has no control over?

When these Bravehearts start heckling Boehner, I'll be impressed. But they don't DARE, EVER--and I notice that, too.

Funny about that, huh?

[BlueMTexpat]

271. Spot on, MADem!

And there is too much incivility already towards Michelle, who is NOT part of the problem.

[MADem]

273. I agree. I hardly think one of the most visible gay "power couples" in DC would invite Michelle

to speak at a fete billed as a LBT event if they thought she was part of the problem, either.

Downthread I provided a link to where one of the host-spouses expresses strong disapproval at the behavior of the heckler. She said, in effect, that the heckler didn't get to play the "lesbian card" at a lesbian event!

The hosts of the event have raised over a million bucks for POTUS--I think they're probably better at shifting his opinion on issues important to the LGBT community, and anyone interested in equality, than someone screaming at his wife might be.

[BlueMTexpat]

277. I agree. And all too often people confuse "free speech" with a right to express

their ignorance or be discourteous anytime they please.

There may be people for whom ignorance and discourtesy are the only things that will get any attention whatsoever, although too often such behavior does not help their cause.

This First Lady has never in any way demonstrated that she is a person who is worthy of ignorance and discourtesy, yet she is all too often treated by too many with both.

[WilliamPitt]

140. I get it now.

[William769]

147. I tried.

Some days I just don't articulate to well.

[WilliamPitt]

151. (((hug)))

Welcome to the club.

[William769]

152. I am happy to say I was wrong about the records.

[rhett o rick]

179. You get some credit. After your post #1, I recorded it twice. Dont tell Skinner. nm

[JaneyVee]

2. Each heckle situation is unique. Heckling elected officials is one thing, being rude is another.

Toddlers & trolls shout at non-elected officials while they're trying to talk.

[eridani]

208. Indeed. Too bad the average American citizen has the political power of a toddler

--vis a vis the big money people who run the government.

Edited to add--just the same amount of power that the shoe thrower had to stop Bushco from bombing the shit out of his country.

[RockaFowler]

3. OK

But this wasn't a political rally or political speech it was a private fundraiser and it was the First Lady not the President

If someone threw a shoe at Mrs Bush, that wouldn't go over very well now would it

Why is it OK to heckle Mrs Obama then??

[Wilms]

13. "a private fundraiser"???

It was the DNC. OK, the DNC has largely been privatized by the DLC. But still.

[MADem]

255. It took place in a private home. Details:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/06/the-curious-case-of-chris-christie-the-note/
FIRST LADY HECKLED BY GAY RIGHTS ADVOCATE. First Lady Michelle Obama was heckled by a gay rights advocate at a fundraiser last night and responded by threatening to leave the event, telling the protester only one of them could speak, ABC’s MARY BRUCE reports. Mrs. Obama was delivering a speech at a DNC event at a private home in Washington when a protester began shouting for the president to sign an executive order to protect gay and lesbian rights. “One of the things I don’t do well is this,” Obama reportedly responded to loud applause. She then left the podium and walked toward the heckler, saying she could “listen to me or you can take the mic, but I’m leaving. You all decide. You have one choice.” The protester was later identified as Ellen Sturtz, an activist for the pro-LGBT rights group GetEQUAL. The crowd begged for the first lady to stay and one woman near Sturtz shouted, “You need to go.” Sturtz was reportedly escorted out, identifying herself as a “lesbian looking for federal equality before I die.” http://abcn.ws/10P3Eyf
NOTED: The hosts for last night’s fundraiser were two Democratic LGBT power-players, Dr. Nan Schaffer and her wife Karen Dixon. Schaffer is a veterinary doctor who specializes in rhinoceros reproduction, ABC’s DEVIN DWYER notes. Dixon is an attorney and gay rights advocate. Both hosted President Obama for an exclusive million-dollar campaign fundraiser in February 2012 when he was still personally opposed same-sex marriage.


Why do I have the feeling that this fundraising host - couple does a better job of moving President Obama forward on issues of importance to the gay community than a shouting heckler might?

[HughBeaumont]

4. I cheered.

Fuck happy-go-lucky war criminal Bewsh and his cabal of suck.

He never got elected. Let's remember that.

[backscatter712]

6. As long as we have public speakers, we'll have hecklers.

I've personally had the privilege of heckling Alberto Gonzales.

When he spoke, I gave him a Klingon-style discommendation, for he is without honor.

[MADem]

159. Alberto Gonzales had a position in government for which he received a paycheck.

Would you feel as good about heckling Alberto Gonzales' wife?

[MattBaggins]

224. Depends on the situation

The paycheck argument is meaningless.

The Koch brothers are not elected officials but I would heckle them.

[MADem]

247. Would you heckle their wives?

Michelle Obama is not a "policy maker." She has a portfolio of FLOTUS Causes, and they're entirely bipartisan--unless you're an asshole. Fitness, nutrition, education, Wounded Warriors, Jobs for Vets and Military Family Members...and she was at that fundraiser with an invitation to talk about an item in HER portfolio.

This was an ambush--and given that it happened at the home of a married lesbian couple hosting the fete, I suspect the hosts were ambushed, too, which is why the heckler was tossed out without ceremony.

[Capt. Obvious]

8. Loved it

[Go Vols]

9. I found it quite humorous

[Raster]

97. Too bad both shoes did not smack ol' WAR CRIMINAL Gee-Dumbya square in the face.

SELECTED NOT ELECTED.

[Whisp]

162. a tooth for a tooth, and a heel for a heel. n/t

[CTyankee]

122. Always a pleasure and a big laugh to see that video again!

[onehandle]

10. Of course. But the First Lady is not an elected official.

I haven't waded into this shitstorm until now, and don't really have much of an interest in it.

[Sheldon Cooper]

11. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

But yeah, I thought it was funny when Bush got shoed. I also think it's great that Michelle Obama told off the person heckling her - she was well within her rights to do it and I'm glad she did. Make of that what you will.

[backscatter712]

12. Besides, the President and Mrs. Obama handle hecklers well.

They confront them, and be civil with them.

When republicans get heckled, they have their goons beat the shit out of them.

[William769]

16. They stomp their feet & threaten to leave.

Yea thats handling it well.

[JaneyVee]

18. That is a wildly inaccurate description. No one stomped their feet. No one even raised their voice.

Did you hear the audio? She actually gave the women a choice to take the mic if she wanted. Save the inaccuracies for the Teabaggers.

[frylock]

90. she threatened to leave..

it could have been handled with just a little grace.

[DevonRex]

93. Another buzzword. nt

[frylock]

137. yeh, i'm a racist..

can you provide a list of words that aren't considered racist when talking about the Obama's? tia.

[DevonRex]

146. How about 'she could have handled that better'? Pretty simple. nt

[JaneyVee]

94. Huh? So she should be forced to stay? She did handle it with grace.

[DevonRex]

120. The things people have said

about her since last night have been stunning.

[onpatrol98]

117. I think the first lady did handle the incident gracefully...

[geek tragedy]

167. No, she confronted the heckler and pretty much left it up

to those in attendance who they wanted to listen to.

It was a subtler version of "that was real nice, but you should be going now."

[MADem]

253. The hosts of this soiree were a gay couple. The audience was full of gay people.

There were three other potential "hecklers" who had tickets provided by GetEqual in the audience who wisely decided to keep THEIR mouths shut.

Miss Heckler didn't read the room very well--that's the bottom line.

[demwing]

80. Are you saying this is how the Obamas handle hecklers?

are you fucking stoned?

[DevonRex]

92. Really. Well, that's that. nt

[geek tragedy]

164. Yes, she was bad for talking back to the nice white lady.

Didn't she see The Help--black women are supposed to remain silent when lectured.

[phantom power]

14. +oo

[Skinner]

17. I don't think people are required to approve of all hecklers.

If the choice is between anti-Obama hecklers and anti-Bush hecklers, I actually have a preference for one over the other.

If the choice is between people who heckle presidents and people who heckle First Ladies, I have a preference of one over the other.

If the choice is between pro-gay hecklers and anti-gay hecklers, I have a preference for one over the other.

If the news today were about an anti-gay heckler interrupting President Obama, or a pro-gay heckler interrupting George W Bush, we would all be on the same page. The reason we're not all on the same page is because this was a pro-gay heckler interrupting the First Lady.

[WilliamPitt]

23. Well, that's just human nature (especially re: Bush or Obama hecklers).

You're going to like the guy at the ballgame who heckles the other team more than you're going to like the guy heckling your team.

It's when people start denouncing all heckling after someone heckles their team (even though they enjoyed the guy who heckled the other team) that I feel compelled to say, "Um, wait..."

[Skinner]

52. Fair enough. But it's also possible to take some pleasure from hecklers...

...while still disapproving of heckling generally. FWIW, I thought the shoe was pretty funny but at the same time I didn't approve of it.

Now that I think about it, I can't really say I'm a big fan of heckling as a means of protest. My impression is that it tends to make the heckler look like a bully and make the hecklee look sympathetic.

[William769]

113. Great way to tow the party line after the fact.

[Beaverhausen]

22. I wasn't aware that a shoe was thrown at Laura Bush

[awoke_in_2003]

24. I laughed my ass off...

but fervently wished the guy had practiced first. Of course it might not have mattered, Shrub had a lifetime of experience dodging things.

[Jerry442]

28. I remember thinking, should have aimed for the chest, harder to dodge out of the way. (bad me) nt

[awoke_in_2003]

35. True- head shots are tough. nt

[mountain grammy]

70. yep, he had been ducking for 8 years. And let's remember where and when that shoe was thrown.

This was far more than a "heckler." This was an Iraqi citizen who had witnessed the destruction of his country and the deaths of thousands of his fellow citizens at the hand of GW Bush and company.

[awoke_in_2003]

99. Yep...

I wouldn't normally applaud such a thing, but this man did irreparable damage to that country.

[stevenleser]

25. K&R nt

[stevenleser]

26. The only thing I didn't love about the shoe heckler is that he missed. nt

[Cleita]

27. Raises hand.

No argument from me here.

[MuseRider]

29. Yes I totally loved the shoe guy!

Totally loved it and watched the video over and over again every time hoping Bush** would not duck.

I have no problem with hecklers, protests or any of that no matter who it is they are going after. You get in the game you must play it and they asked for the spot in a very messy game. I would have no problem with people coming after me if my husband was an official. It is part of the whole.

[abelenkpe]

30. Shoe guy disappointed me

But only because he missed.

[JustAnotherGen]

31. She is NOT an elected Official

She was at a private fund raiser.

And the vicious jackass that behaved that way - is a self centered spoiled little snot who obviously only cares about herself and NOT poor, urban children.

Folks went to hear the First Lady (which is not an elected position at all) speak on something that matters very much to what I consider to be TRUE liberals and progressives . . . Poverty. And how it impacts powerless children.

[WilliamPitt]

34. "...who obviously only cares about herself and NOT poor, urban children."

The $500 she paid to get in might argue otherwise.

[JustAnotherGen]

45. She only paid that

To make a name for herself.

If she wasn't heckling Obama about the right of every American to three meals, shelter, clothing, and medical needs - then she only went there to sorry my feminist friends - be a bitch and get her name in the paper. Sometimes the b fits.


And she's learned from someone - if you pick on the black first family - you get all kinds of press.

What was her REAL agenda? And who REALLY paid for her ticket?



She ought to be ashamed of herself. Not the time and place.


And if she did have the $500 - just goes to show money can't buy you class. Only access to be a raving asshole.

[MADem]

96. Please allow me to associate myself with your comments.

FLOTUS went there in support of a good cause--she didn't go there to take abuse. And she wasn't going to, either, and I can't say I blame her one bit.

And that protester didn't put down five hundred to help anyone--that five hundred was "admission" to get close up and personal with FLOTUS in order to make a scene.

[Go Vols]

111. Did she pay $500.00?

Sturtz, who was planted at the fundraiser by gay rights group GetEqual,...

http://www.theroot.com/blogs/grapevine/why-heckling-michelle-obama-doesnt-pay

[MADem]

124. Someone did...but that's all the more proof that the entire situation was jive and low rent.

I never heard of "GetEqual" before this--but I know them now! I think they're a bunch of ASSHOLES. As far as I'm concerned, GetEqual can GetFucked, because that outfit will GetNo support from ME.

I'm sick of this READY---FIRE---AIM shit, frankly. GetEqual's target is not the First Lady at a poverty benefit, it's Congress. Change the law, that's what needed. Congress makes law. Of course, that takes time and real effort--not so easy to chase down those well-fed cretins in public or private places, and maybe the publicity might not be so "juicy."

I don't think GetEqual anticipated this much negative pushback. Live and learn. You don't go after someone that most of us regard like a daughter, sister, mother or trusted friend, and not expect us to spring to her defense.

[MattBaggins]

226. Any thing you advocate will get no support from me then

I will never vote for a Dem again just to get even with you.

Oh wait I'm an adult.

[MADem]

232. I think there's a difference between a Big Tent party and a group of tone - deaf nitwits.

Did they think, because the hosts of this party were a married lesbian couple, that they could "get away" with this bullshit?

They thought wrong.

I don't like or support the Susan Komen organization either, because they pulled their money from Planned Parenthood.

When organizations fund/support dumbshit actions, I take note of them, and gauge my support for them according to their behavior. Dumb Behavior gets a buh-bye from me. These idiots acted like assholes, and I don't support assholes.

You aren't "getting even with ME." Don't even play me with a "threat" like that, because I'm not your boss and I don't care what you do. You march to your own drummer, and good luck with that. You're only screwing yourself if you withdraw your support for the Dems, because you won't get a better deal from the GOP, and any other party is an exercise is pissing in the wind.

[MattBaggins]

234. Still missed my point

I am not going to get all childish and stomp my feet and shun GetEqual or any LGBT groups because of one incident.

[MADem]

235. I am not talking about groups, plural -- I am talking about ONE group.

This one group did a dumbshit thing, like Komen did a dumbshit thing when they put their eggs in the GOP basket against Planned Parenthood.

I think I will stick with groups that fire at the enemy, not at friends.

[MattBaggins]

236. GetEqual and Michelle are both my friends

Rather silly to get all Hatfields and McCoys over the issue.

Circular firing squads are not a wise choice.

[MADem]

237. Well, one of your friends took a big shit on another of your friends.

And they embarrassed the hosts of the party where your other friend was guest of honor, too--a married, gay couple with a very real interest in employment non-discrimination.

[randome]

41. Yeah, I was about to say I agreed with the OP.

But Michelle Obama is not an elected official, you're right on about that.

Still, protesters should be expected at any political event, whether private or public. And Michelle Obama handled things superbly.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[JustAnotherGen]

58. She handled that perfectly

You get up in her grill - then turn about is fair play.


Didn't the heckler learn ANYTHING being a woman in America in Junior High School. You never back down from that sort of thing or women run over you and over you and over you again.


Looks the mean girl got it back in spades. And now she's WHINING about it? That's rich!

[Number23]

242. I actually agree with the OP and think it's stupid as hell at the same time.

Go figure.

[WinkyDink]

84. And she didn't get a shoe thrown at her, either.

[MADem]

112. Which means that this OP is apropos of absolutely nothing.

We're supposed to chuckle fondly about the shoes tossed at Dumbya the POTUS, and compare it to Michelle the FLOTUS having verbal abuse heaped upon her, at a private event, in a favorable way.

Sorry, no sale here.

[frylock]

91. yeh, people should know their place

[Spirochete]

32. I thought it was kinda funny

Except he missed.
and it wasn't a hand grenade.

[Nye Bevan]

33. There's quite a list of things that many DUers wish President Obama was doing differently.

Is it appropriate, and productive, to have people attend Michelle Obama's speeches and scream out their pet causes in the hope that she will bring them to the President's attention?

[Whisp]

36. Michelle Obama is not a mass murderer.

comparing her to that piece of shit, is well, you know...

[wickerwoman]

125. This +1000

The essential point is that Michelle Obama didn't start a war of choice that killed hundreds of thousands of people.

Th shoe wasn't "heckling" - it was a form of protest coming from the rage and despair of the legitimately aggrieved. It's the little guy whose neighbourhood is being bombed every night, who doesn't have "second amendment rights" to fight back, not that they would do him any good against the tanks rattling past his house or the drone flying overhead. What can he do? He has a press pass and a shoe. That's it.

That is fundamentally not the same as someone in this country going to an event with Michelle Obama and speaking over her.

[Martin Eden]

184. YES, that's the difference: DESERVING to be HECKLED (and WORSE)

I liked what Bill Maher said in reaction to the GW "Miss Me Yet?" billboards:
The only one who missed you is the guy who threw the shoes

[MADem]

238. +1,000 !!!!

I can't believe how many DUers think the premise of this thread is "cool," or "OK."

I'm hoping that most of them didn't understand the reference to FLOTUS that was insinuated in the OP. If they all did "get it," I might be in the wrong place. That's some serious hate.

[Number23]

244. MADem I think you are cooler than an ice cream in February. But I rec'd this thread

because I will forever love the guy that threw the shoe at that asshole.

I also think this is also an incredibly stupid OP and is the typical knee-jerk half-assery that DU is unfortunately famous for nowadays, but I still rec'd it because I love that guy and always will.

[MADem]

245. I can buy that.

I am just sick, understandably, at the thought of people reccing the thread because they see an equivalency in the two acts.

One made sense, the other was tossing a landmine at someone both unelected and friendly to the cause, as well as sandbagging the hosts of the event--which was another shitty thing the heckler did.

I mean, really, I hardly think a married lesbian couple would host a fundraiser at which Michelle Obama was a featured speaker if they thought she--or her husband--was in favor of employment discrimination.

[Number23]

252. Oh, I think the OP knows that. And most of the people screaming do as well

I hardly think a married lesbian couple would host a fundraiser at which Michelle Obama was a featured speaker if they thought she--or her husband--was in favor of employment discrimination.

But there are recs to be counted by playing on people's inability to detect context and objectivity, I guess.

[jberryhill]

37. I was actually impressed by W's quick reaction

It was the first time in his presidency that I saw him properly assess a situation and take swift, correct and decisive action.

My reaction was "Good dodge!"

[MoonchildCA]

65. Me too.

I've always considered that Bush's finest moment.

[ConcernedCanuk]

256. Dubya was expecting it . . .

.
.
.

Not that particular time, nor that shoe,

But as ignorant as "W" is, he is smart enough to know he's pissing people off,

and sooner or later, someone is gonna get back at him

He's still watching I bet . . .

CC

[Savannahmann]

38. This violates rule number 17

Thou shalt not point out DU Hypocrisy. Oh, I know the arguments. The First Lady is not political. Nuts. She campaigned with her husband. She was at a political fund raiser, which is by definition a political event. Did she handle it well? Well enough certainly. Was the heckler out of line? Free speech means you get to be an a-hole, and shouting down is a time honored tactic we Progressives have used before.

Many of us think the President is not left enough, he's left his base. If you were in the same room with someone who had unfettered access to him, or actually him, would you bring up some of your issues with him? If you would, you are principled in your beliefs, the principles come first, the party second. If you would not, then you are a party over principle individual, which is your right. Just as it is the right of the principle over party individual to demand their issue get heard, if only in a shouted slogan.

[Tarheel_Dem]

44. "Many of us think the President is not left enough, he's left his base". Define "Many".

[Savannahmann]

63. Seriously?

That's where you want to take this? OK. Many. More than a few. But fewer than most.

[Tarheel_Dem]

141. I guess I was hoping for something more scientific, like a poll, perhaps? But alas, more unsubstan-

tiated rhetoric.

[MADem]

163. I don't think there's any hypocrisy going on at all.

If we're comparing and contrasting, and saying that it's all good to heckle family members who are unpaid, in private homes, then what you're also saying is that it would have been "OK" for the shoe guy to toss a couple of size tens at Laura Bush--because the OP is saying that form of heckling was just hilarious, and it's all good.

After all, Laura "campaigned with her husband." She went to plenty of political fund raisers, too. So, sure, let's let shoe-boy slap her upside the head with his loafers.

It's one thing to bring up your issues with THE PRESIDENT....but his wife isn't on the payroll.

When some of these "principled" hecklers start heckling Boehner or other ELECTED officials, maybe I'll find a reason to be impressed. But FLOTUS was a soft target and heckling her was a cheap shot.

[Savannahmann]

171. Never mind.

I seriously give up. Yay Dems, we rule.

[geek tragedy]

40. Great for her, and great for Michelle Obama for not taking any shit either. nt

[bluedigger]

43. I will never complain about PETA's tactics again, because their cause is just.

Thanks for setting me straight.

[brooklynite]

46. Sorry, but I didn't

I suppose there's always a visceral enjoyment when someone you don't like gets his, but I'm too concerned about the value of the First Amendment that I don't like to pick and choose who it applies to.

[Myrina]

269. ^^ this ^^

... but for different reasons. I thought Shrub deserved the shoe. And I thought FLOTUS could have handled the situation better than she did.

[faithnomore]

48. No I cried because he missed the son of a bitch..........

I would have cheered if he had knocked him on his sorry ass.

[riqster]

49. MO did not have her heckler swarmed with armed guards

She went to the heckler and spoke with her. Bush The Dumber did not act so with the Shoe Dude.

If we are going to compare situations, we should compare the entire situation in each case.

[heaven05]

50. I

wish that contact would've been made, then maybe bushmonkey would have had a taste of the pain he and his cabal of war criminals caused to hundreds of thousands of human beings. I LOVED it.

[KittyWampus]

51. No, I didn't. I cringed.

[rocktivity]

53. I enjoyed it even more

that he didn't have the sense to stay down after he ducked.


rocktivity

[RiffRandell]

54. I would have enjoyed it more if it had hit him. n/t

[MADem]

55. Sorry--I wouldn't have felt the same way if the guy threw the shoes at LAURA BUSH.

And therein lies the difference.

Even Bush got a kick out of the shoe guy, (it gave him an excuse to show off his lightin'-quick, cat-like reflexes) so that example really doesn't fly.

[Egalitarian Thug]

56. I did and do. We (supposedly) don't have royalty here and we are free to say what we will to

whomever we will. If the First Lady doesn't want to hear from a fellow citizen, she can forgo political events.

OTOH, as I read this story it seems to me that she handled the situation fine on her own. Just another distracting non-issue to get all worked up about.

Meanwhile, 28 nominal Democrats voted to literally take the food out of poor children's mouths.

[Hubert Flottz]

59. I just wish the guy would have aimed better and

used blivets instead of shoes.

[ZRT2209]

60. I never thought I'd have to add you to Full Ignore but now I will

If you can't see the difference between a malicious, stupid, counter-productive, un-ending harangue and activism. #FAIL

[WilliamPitt]

95. LOL

I like how you capitalize Full Ignore to give it more weight.

48 people have me on (dun dun dunnn) Full Ignore already. Say hi to everyone for me...oh, wait, they won't hear it. Never mind.

[Iggo]

61. Exactly.

[Aerows]

64. I did

I'll admit it.

[Initech]

66. I like Bill Maher on the "Miss Me Yet?" billboards:

"New rule: NO!!!! The only guy who missed you is the Iraqi guy who threw his shoe."

[xxqqqzme]

67. Cheered? Hell I

wished I was that guy!

I'd never get that close though.

[Sheepshank]

68. Actually I didn't enjoy or cheer

it was more embarassing.

Still....how is this situation the same as the heckler who was attempting to shut down the presentation of Michelle, at $500 per person private function? I'm thinking those others that paid $500 for this private event were not looking for a person with a personal agenda to take over from the intended speaker.

dumb comparison imho.

If I were to draw a comparison it would be more like the idiot GOPer who yelled "you lie" during an Obama presentation in Congress. Time and place people...not all are equal.

[BrotherIvan]

219. Many here seem reverent of the fact that this was a $500 "private" event

As though we should all mind our manners and don't rattle the crystal. Or in another thread where people were going on about how this was a worthy cause because the wealthy paid a wad of cash to snuggle with A-listers and glitterati while sipping champagne and listening to FLOTUS talk about the plight of inner-city children. How nice. They get to ease their consciences in jewels and evening wear but don't have to mix with the riff raff.

This was a Democratic Party fundraiser. It was political. Michelle's husband is the head of the party. She stumped for him. She lives in the White House. And when she speaks, she gets national media attention.

I would like to ask, how many inner-city children were fed that night? How many felt safer in their homes or schools that day? How many people--social workers, teachers, volunteers--who actually work with inner-city children could afford to go to this private affair? Don't you know that the prices are set that high so the little people can't attend?

So why are we all up in arms that these people's lovely evening was ruined? Why instead are we not appalled by the hypocrisy? Why are we not pointing out that what is important is that the rich, because they can afford $500-$50,000 a plate shindigs, have the ear of our leaders and their wives. That our side is reveling in the largesse of the plutocracy just as much as the other side. That we need public financing so candidates don't listen to the rich more than the voters.

And if she is going to receive the gushing applause for being FLOTUS, then she can hear a bit of heckling now and again.

[MADem]

260. Don't you think the hosts of that party deserved any consideration, in their private home?

And that money isn't going to buy bon-bons for the rich, it's going to by TV ad time so we can get some of these asshole Republicans out of the House and maybe pass a few damn laws. Without Dems in the House, NO kids will get fed if the Boehner Bunch has their way.

This idiot got the toss because she didn't read the room. There were four hecklers at that venue, with cheap tickets paid by their dumbass activist group--but three of them were smart enough to keep their mouths shut. Apparently, they had better intuition than the person who got tossed out.

This isn't about "gushing applause." This is about being invited to a private home to participate in a LBT-centered fundraiser--not being invited to take shit from the cheap seats paid for by short sighted "activists."

You might want to acquaint yourself with the hosts of the party, who were none too pleased at the behavior of the heckler.

— First lady Michelle Obama got into a confrontation with a protester Tuesday night after the gay rights activist interrupted her remarks at a fundraiser held in the home of two former Chicagoans, veterinarian Nan Schaffer and tax lawyer Karen Dixon....The Democratic National Committee billed the private fundraiser as a LBT Women's Discussion and Reception with the first lady. LBT means lesbian, bisexual or transgender. Tickets ranged from $500 to $10,000, according to a DNC official.

Schaffer, 59, and Dixon, 48, who are married, previously opened their Washington home for a fundraiser for President Barack Obama in February 2012. Another high-profile lesbian, Laura Ricketts, co-owner of the Chicago Cubs, introduced the president then....Dixon, in an interview Wednesday, said the disruption was "completely inappropriate and unnecessary." "You don't get to play the lesbian card when you're at a fundraiser with the first lady at a lesbian couple's private home," she said.

Dixon said she spoke to Michelle Obama afterward, telling her "I thought that she handled it beautifully."

"She rocked it," Dixon added.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-michelle-obama-heckler-20130606,0,5200409.story

[Sheepshank]

267. As I understand this was a gathering not for political fundraising...

...but fundraising for needy kids...and also not about Gay issues. The distraction proved to be plain stupid and un productive. This has nothing to do with "Poor Michelle", she handled it fine. This was about the forum, the timing and the disrespect to the entire group of attendees.

Sure it was attended by Dems, but then which Reps would have paid $500 to see Michelle.

Your bitterness is mislplaced in this case...and short on facts.

[BrotherIvan]

274. Funny that it is you who don't know the facts

Read MADem's response above it was a DNC POLITICAL FUNDRAISER and was specifically about LBGT issues.

The Democratic National Committee billed the private fundraiser as a LBT Women's Discussion and Reception with the first lady.

So while above MADem and others mischaracterized the event as some "charity fundraiser" for poor inner-city children, it was, in fact, a political fundraiser about the very issues the heckler was talking about.

You BOTH fail to see the point, though I'm sure it's calculated, that I don't care who was rude or who was offended.

I care that someone felt the only way to gain access to these power brokers and have their cause heard is by paying for it.

[Sheepshank]

275. Doesn't matter who organized the fundraiser...here, Michelle's own words

MRS. OBAMA: So let me make the point that I was making before: We are here for our kids. (Applause.) So we must recapture that passion, that same urgency and energy that we felt back in 2008 and 2012. Understand this. This is what I want you all to understand, this is not about us — no one back here. It’s not about you or you, or your issue or your thing. This is about our children. (Applause.)

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/04/michelle-obama-heckled-at-dnc-event-threatens-to-leave/#ixzz2VSbwUz9I

[BrotherIvan]

276. Proving my earlier point beautifully

Giving lip service at a $500 a pop gathering does not feed/clothe/house one hungry child. According to MADem who agrees with your position, it was to buy advertising for candidates. Whether that is precisely true or no is irrelevant.

Giving lip service does nothing but ease the consciences of the comfortable. If they really really cared, this party would not be at beautiful townhouse in an affluent neighborhood; it would be a community party in a needy neighborhood. But it wasn't and you refuse to even grasp that idea. Could there be a clearer instance of money in politics that you will acknowledge? Or must we never go beyond adulation?

[OnyxCollie]

69. The shoe thrower took more action

to punish Bush than the Obama administration ever has.

[mountain grammy]

74. He had more courage. Maybe shock and awe made him do it,

or maybe it was just the thousands of dead Iraqis who would raise their hands if they could.

[steve2470]

88. agreed, I wish the guy had better aim

In general, I think the FLOTUS is off-limits from heckling and political protest. Take your protest to the man or woman in charge, not his or her spouse.

[frylock]

98. word

[BrotherIvan]

220. For the win!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

71. She could have just given Michelle a disapproving look..but the protest wouldn't have worked.

As it is, a lot of people are now looking at Obama's inaction as well as Michelle's embarrassment.

[Phillyindy]

72. Obama would have caught the shoe ninja style

[on point]

73. Please send old shoes to new Bush library

[mountain grammy]

77. Great idea.. I'm doing it!

[madokie]

75. the problem I see is

Michelle is not an elected official making policy

[arely staircase]

76. I laughed my ass off

but all hecklers are not the same. for instance heckling the first lady in someone's home when she is talking about inner city children is arguably different than heckling/throwing a shoe at the leader of the country that invaded and occupied your own, killing tens od thousands of your countrymen/women/children in the process.

just sayin'

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

78. Bravo to both. The purpose of protest is to draw public attention.

And, in both these cases it was successful.

[chelsea0011]

81. Funniest thing I ever saw. When i first read the headline that the First Lady was heckled at a

fundraiser, I thought it was non profit type fundraiser for something like cancer and was appalled that the First Lady would get heckled at this type of event. When I read the article and it was a Democratic Fundraiser, I said heckle away.

[appleannie1]

85. Gotta admit though, she did not just stand there looking stupid.

[appleannie1]

82. LMAO

[Lint Head]

83. Having a shoe thrown at a murdering war criminal is fine with me.

[KansDem]

138. Same with me

I find it bizarre to compare Michelle Obama to George W. Bush...

[Hell Hath No Fury]

86. Not a popular opinion around here, Will -

but one I wholeheartedly agree with.

[Mr.Bill]

87. I just felt the same way I always felt whenever W was in the news.

I felt embarrased for my country.

[LeftInTX]

89. I loved it!!!!

Weren't they supposed to love us in Iraq?

[Brigid]

166. They were supposed to greet us as liberators.

[kairos12]

100. I am still laughing

[obxnacy]

101. shoe tosser

yes, love the guy. buying lots of cheerios too.

[Skittles]

102. I dislike vigilantism

but HELL YES I loved the shoe toss

[Downtown Hound]

103. Actually, I was disappointed in him

he should have thrown a nice, big rock.

[BeyondGeography]

104. Utterly lame comparison

[jeff47]

106. Was Laura Bush president at the time? No?

It's almost like he targeted the guy with actual power, instead of the spouse with only a ceremonial role.

[tularetom]

107. I was only sorry the guy didn't throw a balut instead of a shoe

And as far as the First Lady is concerned, she's a public figure and probably expects to be heckled once in awhile.

[forestpath]

108. :::raising both hands:::::

[Ilsa]

109. He was pretzeldent then. And I enjoyed it. nt

[Jack Rabbit]

114. !!

I know that as an American, I should feel outrage when the President is given such disrespect.

I maybe I will feel outrage when the President is given that kind of disrespect. But a usurper? Have at it. A usurper who lied the nation into a war for corporate resources? A thief? A crook? A war criminal? Have at it.

[Jennicut]

115. It think it's kind of obvious on a Democratic/liberal board that many posters loved the Shoe guy.

To me, it's free speech. Just not stupidity free speech. Heckling will go on, there will be more "don't taze me bro" guys. Politicians and their spouses/children may have to deal with hecklers at some point. Everyone will have their individual opinion on it. We may be hypocrites about it. Such is the life of modern democracy.
I think it was sort of pointless to go to the person not in direct power but that's just me. Mrs. Obama dealt with it, the lady got to heckle. The DNC got $500. We are now debating the effectiveness of an executive order prohibiting federal contractors from discriminating against gay workers and if that would hold up the minute a Repub becomes President. The Earth did not stop either way.

[KauaiK]

116. Oh boy did I cheer and LAUGH!!

[apples and oranges]

118. I wouldn't have cheered if a shoe was thrown at Laura

Do you understand?

[leveymg]

119. Here's something nice about W: I thought that Bush was surprisingly agile when he ducked. ;-)

[mfcorey1]

121. I did not cheer because even though I am a proud liberal and disagreed with many

of his policies, he was our rep on foreign soil and deserved respect. How would we feel if Joe Scarborough threw a shoe at the Queen of England? It was regardlessl of how you twist it.

[apples and oranges]

123. Also, I never cheered. I was mentally

face palming in disgust and disappointment about what a joke this nation and it's leader had become.

[Coyotl]

126. REC #100 = REC this thread if you wish you had throw a shoe at Bush!!

[CakeGrrl]

128. The FLOTUS heckler was being a rude disruptor.

The Bush shoe thrower was protesting someone at the VERY CENTER of disastrous foreign policy. Yes, I was glad to see that happen.

But people are going to say there's no difference? All hecklers are the same and should be applauded equally? No sale.

So how is it that tell others to "hush" (as if to children) and get a bunch of recs, while the people applauding that sentiment will tell others not to tell them to "sit down and shut up".

This is a funny place.

The FLOTUS heckler was expecting to be rude and be treated with respect. It was written all over her 'taken aback' response at being challenged. I applaud the Bush heckler. Nuance.

[malaise]

129. Both hands up

Good post

[ZombieHorde]

130. I don't know what I posted on DU about it,

but yeah, I liked the shoe guy.

However, she doesn't have the magic label "elected official," so I'm not so sure they are exactly the same thing.

[Xyzse]

131. I didn't mind it...

I enjoyed the Russell Peters joke about it though.

I didn't cheer the guy... Besides, I was not in DU yet at the time.
I found it funny, disrespectful, but funny since he didn't get hit.

[LeftishBrit]

132. yep!

[panader0]

134. False equivalency

As pointed out above, Flotus is not a lying, murdering war criminal. She is not an elected official. She was speaking at a private affair.

[Egalitarian Thug]

158. She is the First Lady speaking at a fund raiser, a purely political event. She is no

different than any of the attendees, you, or I. The woman exercised her right to speak up and the owners of the house exercised their right to make her leave.

Meanwhile 28 nominal Democrats voted to literally take the food out of the mouths of poor children.

[TrollBuster9090]

135. I'm wondering if they ever built a statue of the guy who threw it? Or at least a bronze statue of

the shoe. I have a feeling the bronze shoe statue will be harder to pull down than the statue of Saddam.

And my favorite part was when LAURA went on the Sunday Morning talk show circuit to try and spin it into something positive by blathering about how good it was that her husband was "A NATURAL ATHLETE" (seriously, that's what she said!), and was able to DUCK so fast!

[LadyHawkAZ]

139. I'll put my hand up and wave it with enthusiasm

but I'm also going to point out that no one threw a shoe at Laura Bush. Michelle Obama is not the President.

[bowens43]

144. agreed. I have no issues with hecklers. if the speaker cant take it they shouldnt be speaking

and yes, i loved the shoe guy.....

[ieoeja]

145. I have never, ever seen an incident of heckling *not* have detrators at DU.

What is it with all the hypocrisy claims? Has there EVER been an incidence of heckling that was not criticized by some DUers?

Actually, there may have been one. That may be why everyone keeps bringing up the shoe guy. Every time Cheney, et al, got hit with a pie or egg, I shook my head in disgust. But the shoe guy ... that was just funny.

So the exception was my reaction to the shoe guy. My reaction to a First Lady being heckled is consistent.

[polynomial]

153. You mean there is hypocrisy here?

Hypocrisy, a fancy way to say a lie, here are related words;

Deceit, deceitfulness, deception, deceptiveness, dishonesty, double-dealing, falsity, perfidy, two-facedness; affectation, affectedness, pretense (or presence), pretension, pretentiousness, sanctimoniousness, self-righteousness, self-satisfaction; duplicity, fakery, falseness, fraudulentness, shamming; artificiality, glibness, oiliness, smoothness, unctuousness.

The whole system is rigged against the common citizen by or through legal ease, the legislation put together by any and all political persons is way over done hugely projected or indexed in counterproductive way by our economic monetary system. The charge card business is incredibly dishonest. It’s only a matter of time till political persons will have Gitmo style fences to protect themselves from the public that is swindled.

The simple example is the Gaussian amortization money loan system a common citizen is forced to use. Essentially every American who gets a home loan is paying a ninety percent into interest up front. Only ten percent is subtracted from the principle amount of the loan when started, which essentially skews the whole notion of getting a low interest rate. The whole loan system is a shame. As time goes on a home buyer pays three to four time the value of the home.

Essentially what is happening is an indexing tax is applied up front in the loan. Another really good example is the new Social Security indexing system the political persons want to try out now. Reducing benefit payouts at the retirement point is trickle down stress economics. Our whole system is a shame.

More are becoming tuned to this dilemma. It is something the Europeans knew a long time ago, but realize it’s enough and time to change. Dump the Gaussian home loan system. Or better yet shift that money profiteering property, of the Gaussian loan program to space exploration. There is plenty of room there. It’s funny but it just might work. Only if the Bush Cheney profiteering torture crime families are key players in exploring the other side of the universe, it seems America or the world does not have the honesty, integrity, or just plain good sense to throw them in jail.

[HeroInAHalfShell]

154. Exactly, hecklers are a good thing! they say things when others wont!

[Greybnk48]

155. I thought it was fricking awesome!!

But I would not have liked anyone heckling Pickles, even though I can't stand her. I think FLOTUS and the kids are off limits. I have no problem with going after the elected official, but not the spouse (whether you can stand them or not). This does not hold for spouses who have positions of influence in the govt./lobbyists.

[Brigid]

160. You are forgetting one thing:

The shoe guy was an Iraqi. If anybody had a right to throw a shoe at Chimpy, it was an Iraqi. Some heckler at a private fundraiser hassling the First Lady? Not so much. Sorry, Will -- gotta disagree with you on this one.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

168. Also, GWB was a horrible person

And a shitty president. But hey I wouldn't want to get in the way of a good false equivalency.

[rhett o rick]

177. As seen from your perspective. Pres Obama may not look too cool to gay federal employees.

And no shoe was thrown.

[geek tragedy]

190. Did Obama invade the federal government

and kill hundreds of thousands of gay federal employees, while leading to civil war inside the federal government?

If not, idiotic comparison.

[idwiyo]

169. K&R I did. Still do. I also beleive there is nothing wrong with 'heckling',

regardless which side does. I might disagree with the 'heckler' though if the message they are trying to push is against what I believe is right. Don't see anything wrong with that. I don't have to like what they say, but I will support their right to do so if I don't want to be a hypocrite.

When it comes to Universal Human Rights, I don't believe there is such thing as 'wrong place' or 'wrong time'. Same goes for other universal issues like anti-war, anti-racism, etc.

[Betsy Ross]

173. Guilty nt

[Liberal Veteran]

175. Two wrongs and all that jazz.

You make a good point that a "well-timed shout can have positive side-effects".

A poorly timed one can do much more harm than good.

And let's be honest, Michelle Obama didn't exactly order the invasion of a country or even have the power to do so.

In effect, you offer nothing, except a false equivalence.

[rhett o rick]

176. I think it is important for the first family to keep grounded. Things

are pretty crappy in these United States of Corporations.

In 2008 the President could have ended the discrimination against federally employed gay couples, but he didnt and it's been dragging on for years since. Gay couples where one works for the federal government have had to endure the hardships this brings which includes no health care for the gay spouse of a federal employee.

I guess I can see some frustration that might come out.

[spanone]

178. yea! let's emulate iraq.

[one_voice]

180. I didn't...

I know this won't win me any friends here, but I didn't cheer it.

He was the president, I am an American, it was an insult to all Americans--IMO (that part is important, it's my opinion). If an American had done something like that, I probably would have felt differently.

I had no love for Bush, but I didn't cheer that, I didn't like it, and felt like that was a shoe thrown at America.

I will say I thought the thrower was punished too harshly.

There I said it.

[Th1onein]

181. Here.

I think we often go by a double standard when it comes to things like this. I think that that is inherently dishonest.

[Scootaloo]

182. There's a difference.

Bush was one of the three men responsible for the utter destruction of Muntadhar al-Zaidi's nation and it's descent into carnage and sectarian conflict, a situation that has led to hundreds of thousands of dead men women and children, and the displacement of millions. Donald Rumsfeld has the sense to not travel, and Saddam was dead, so Bush gets the shoe.

Michelle Obama is the wife of a president who is counting on legislation and the courts to settle gay civil rights issues, rather than penning an executive order that could just possibly be erased in January of 2017.

Heckling is not the problem. Heckle your ass off, by all means. Just don't be a dumbfuck about it.

[Cha]

201. You win the thread, Scootaloo! says me, anyway.. There's a big

difference. bush..

And, Michelle Obama


First Lady Michelle Obama talks with students from William R. Harper High School in Chicago in the Diplomatic Reception Room of the White House, June 5 (Photo by Chuck Kennedy)

http://theobamadiary.com/2013/06/05/got-your-back-2/

[yurbud]

183. correct--and how a pol handles them tells you a lot too

Even if you didn't like how Michelle Obama handled that at least she was able to go off script, as Obama can sometimes too.

[Tx4obama]

185. Did Michelle Obama get elected to an office or become president while I was asleep?

What did I miss ???

[randome]

188. President Obama had an emotional breakdown.

But he was able to sign an Executive Order placing Michelle in charge before he was carted off to an 'undisclosed location'.

Oh, and Sasha and Malia are now, respectively, Secretary of the Interior and Secretary of State.

You should avoid sleeping during the day.

I'll see if I can find the thread.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Autumn]

186. I cheered my ass off. Heckling comes with the territory

. I got no problem with it. I think she could have handled it better.

[warrprayer]

191. I'm not an Obama Cheerleader by any means

... but I love this First Lady. Leave Michelle the fuck alone.

[olddots]

192. Last week we had CODE PINK

the nature of heckling or why someone heckles I understand I just want heckling done if it's my way .

[hay rick]

193. Busted.

Yeah, I loved the shoe guy. I woulda loved him even more if one of his shoes had connected...

[caseymoz]

194. Bush killed hundreds of thousands.

Heckling is not adequate for that kind of criminal. As far as I'm concerned, if he's heckled his entire life, day and night, it will not be enough.

Michelle Obama hasn't killed anybody as far as I know. She's not a government official, and why would you go to the wife of a public official demand that their spouse do something? It's one thing to ask nicely so she might bring it to her husband's attention, but to offend her when the best you could expect was a tiny bit of indirect help? Awful strategy.

1) If you're going to heckle, then do it to the right spouse.

2) If you're talking to the wrong spouse, be polite and charming. You want that person to put in a good recommendation for your cause.

[Generic Other]

196. I don't think hecklers are bad

but pissed off black women can be b-a-a-a-a-d. And I say this with more than a touch of envy! Don't fuck with Michelle. She don't play that game. And dammit, more power to her.

[indivisibleman]

199. If a shoe was thrown at Obama

He would probably pick it up and say, "size 8".

[LeftInTX]

257. LOL - I can see that

or "I think you lost a shoe."

[Buns_of_Fire]

202. I honestly, truly regret that incident.

I regret that al-Zaidi's aim wasn't better.

[AndyA]

203. I didn't cheer, but I was disappointed when he missed.

I thought it took a lot of guts to do what a lot of people around the world would have liked to have done.

[Major Hogwash]

207. "The idea that our leaders are not living gods who cannot be ruffled by the peons . ."

Boy, your education was sorely lacking.
We are not peons.

[Honeycombe8]

209. I did not. nt

[Summer Hathaway]

210. DU is rife with

phrases like "peons in the peanut gallery" and Michelle being "challenged by a commoner" today.

What I don't get is why this meme is considered appropriate to this situation - because it's not.

This has nothing to do with the First Lady reacting in such a way as to dismiss anyone as a 'peon' or a 'commoner'. It has to do with Michelle being invited to speak, and those present being entitled to hear what she had to say.

Had Ms. Sturtz been an invited speaker, and had then been interrupted by Michelle on the basis that she was the First Lady and, by virtue of that fact, was therefore to be afforded certain 'privilege', you might have a point. But that's not what happened here. Far from it.

Ms. Obama was addressing an important issue, the plight of inner-city children. The fact that Ms. Sturtz wanted her to address a different topic entirely, and was insistent that she do so, has absolutely nothing to do with 'peons in the peanut gallery' having their say. What it does have to do with is one respecting another's right to speak to the topic of their choice as they had been specifically invited to do.

The idea of turning an annoying heckling incident into an argument about 'commoners' and 'peons' is utterly ridiculous.

As for the shoe-throwing incident, the day Michelle Obama is elected POTUS and then launches a war based on lies, I'll have my shoes at-the-ready to be thrown. But unless I've missed some late-breaking news, that hasn't happened. And comparing one incident to the other is nothing less than laughable.

[politicasista]

213. +100 % n/t

[Rain Mcloud]

211. A gamer made a video parody of the shoe thrower

as a failed V.A.T.S(Vault-tec Assisted Targeting System) attempt in Bethesda Software's Fallout3 released in October of 2008 and selling over 5,000,000 copies in the final months of 2008.
You do not need to be too familiar with the game to see the humor represented here:
[link:

|

[tammywammy]

212. I don't think family of the President should be heckled

I would have the same thought if someone had heckled Laura Bush or Hillary Clinton while they were FLOTUS.

[ScreamingMeemie]

215. Me either.

And I absolutely hated it when they went after the Bush daughters. Kids don't ask to be First Children.

[ScreamingMeemie]

214. Mrs. Obama did not run for office.

Therein lies the difference.

A time and a place. And all that. While I'm not demanding "off with her head," it certainly was poor form.

[Victor_c3]

216. I wish everyone would stop using capital letters when spelling bush's name

It gives him more respect than he deserves.

[Retrograde]

218. I laughed. It was rude and insulting, but I still laughed (n/t)

[yellowwoodII]

221. I Liked His Rationale So Much That I Kept a Copy

Read it here:
http://www.alternet.org/story/142741/why_i_threw_my_shoes_at_bush

[VOX]

222. I believe the Shoe Guy actually tossed a full pair...

One shoe after the other.

Just in the interest of historical accuracy.

[Lars39]

230. Here's a little more info from Shoe Guy:

Aka an honorable man
http://m.guardiannews.com/commentisfree/2009/sep/17/why-i-threw-shoe-bush

[Thor_MN]

231. Mixed emotions... He did throw the shoe, but he did miss.

OTOH, the guy threw a shoe at Dumbass, not his wife.

[Bolo Boffin]

233. Yay, heckling!

http://bcove.me/qu7wmw2s

Yay!

[Jasana]

239. Hnad raised (with a smirk) nt

[Solly Mack]

241. !

K&R

[La Lioness Priyanka]

243. yup . nt

[woo me with science]

246. Proud to be the 208th rec. nt

[donheld]

249. William, I'm surprised and disappointed you don't see the difference. n/t

[Raine]

258. I did but I KNOW if Laura was heckled I didn't cheer

it. Doing it to an elected person is one thing, their spouse or a family member is a totally different thing.

[Douglas Carpenter]

259. I don't condemn the Buddhist monks in Vietnam who set themselves on fire either but extreme actions

should be limited and appropriate for the occasion. If America was carrying out the unjust military destruction of a nation and the First Lady was publicly supporting it - throwing a shoe or heckling would be totally appropriate.

[AngryOldDem]

261. Somebody had to say it.

I thought about posting something similar in another thread but figured I'd have my ass handed to me for daring to point out the double standard at work here.

I guess it's just different when it's "our side" that's on the receiving end.

[JoePhilly]

262. Michelle Obama now equals George Bush?

ok.

[corkhead]

263. I.O.K.I.Y.R.

[The Wizard]

265. I raise two hands (NT)

[Hubert Flottz]

266. I'm just sorry the guy didn't throw a couple of

shit eating dogs!

[BlueMTexpat]

272. This is apples and oranges if ever I saw it, Will.

I am disappointed in you for this.

Yes, I was happy when a President who took the country into war based on lies had a shoe thrown at him. That was the least that should have happened to him. But I will be much happier when the whole rotten lot of war criminals end up in the prisons they deserve.

I do not find it appropriate to heckle the wife of the President unless she is running for office and her viewpoint is decidedly different from my own. That was not at all the case here.

Michelle is NOT the problem. And our whole dysfunctional political system could use an infusion of civility overall, IMHO.

[Violet_Crumble]

278. Bush is a war criminal. Michelle Obama isn't.

Me, I enjoy watching RW war criminals be heckled.