“Boston Bomber's” Former Friends Suspect Him In Triple Murder

[dkf]

Tamerlan Tsernaev's best friend was among the victims in the bloody 2011 homicide. Surprise “Tam” skipped the funeral.

Former associates of slain Boston Marathon bombing suspect Tamarlan Tsarnaev now believe he may have been involved in a 2011 triple murder that claimed the life of his closest American friend, Brendan Mess.

"At the time none of would have thought it was Tam. It was just so emotional and we thought we had someone else who had done it. Tam's name wasn't coming up at all," said one of their mutual friends, who asked to be identified by his first name, Ray.

Now "a few of my friends, without even speaking about it beforehand have all been thinking" that Tsarnaev could have been connected to the 2011 murder, he said. Ray and Tsarnaev were both part of a social circle centered on the gym at which Tsarnaev trained and on a Boston hip-hop group called FlyRidaz, whose members this week expressed shock at having known the suspected killer.

"Tam wasn't there at the memorial service, he wasn't at the funeral, he wasn't around at all," Ray said. "And he was really close with Brendan. That's why it's so weird when he said 'I don't have any American friends.'"

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/boston-bombers-former-friends-suspect-him-in-unsolved-triple

[Warpy]

1. If so

he probably found out they were the ones supplying his little brother with weed.

Sounds like that kind of message to me, whoever actually did the crime.

[dkf]

2. Now that would be an extra twist on this twist.

Honestly I thought it was a wacko suggestion when someone posted it earlier, but nothing shocks me anymore.

The police even asked about Tamerlan!

[MADem]

3. "Tam" never had a J. O. B. EVER. The guy had zero visible means of support.

He was a "stay at home dad." His wife worked, supposedly. Yet he had a Mercedes?

I'd say he wasn't mad at anyone for selling his little brother weed; more likely he was mad at someone for not giving him his "cut" of some illegal business. That smiling psycho was a Sopranos-style thug, perhaps.

[Warpy]

4. Then he'd have taken the money

This was more of a warning to dealers.

ETA: but yes, he and his brother were both living very large on no money. That particular trail will be a fascinating one to follow, even though most of it was likely in cash.

[dkf]

5. They thought there were two other men with the victims before the murder.

I wonder if both Tsarnaev brothers were there.

[Warpy]

6. Could be

The whole thing is hinky as hell.

I remember when the Jamaicans had most of the grass trade in the area, people who tried to stiff them generally ran into machetes. I'm sure other thugs have taken over since then.

However, the Jamaicans would have taken the money. This looks more like revenge and a warning.

[FarCenter]

74. It looks like an initiation

His handler could be sure that his conversion to the cause and allegiance to the cell was complete and that he wasn't an informant.

[Scootaloo]

79. 'Cause nothing says low-key like a triple homocide n/t

[FarCenter]

88. Cutting the throats of a drug dealer and two Jews says you're a genuine jihadi n/t

[reformist2]

92. On the night of September 11, no less.

[Scootaloo]

105. I wouldn't know. Is there a guidebook for this?

Or are you just making it up as you go?

[FarCenter]

111. It's the way the Mafia do it...

Before being inducted, a potential made man is required to carry out a contract killing; any murders committed for personal reasons "do not count".[4] Committing one's first contracted killing is referred to as "making your bones."[4] Until the 1980s, one only had to be involved in a murder (such as driving the getaway car) in order to fulfill the requirements.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_man

The principle is that the inductee into the organization must do a crime that no law enforcement officer could do. It may also be something held over the inductee's head, should he waver in his loyalty. But disloyalty or the breaking of omerta results in death.

Yes there is a guidebook for how to induct new members into a secret criminal or subversive society.

[MADem]

8. How do you know he didn't?

The five grand and the weed scattered on the corpses may have been the amount the guy was SUPPOSED to get, and perhaps he lied and said the shipment got stolen or something, and was trying to keep it all for himself.

Perhaps the money the guy made without cutting in Tough Tam, there, WAS taken, and his "cut" was left behind with the amount of weed he was given to sell as his own piece of the pie scattered over him as a warning to anyone else thinking they could rip off the boss or enforcer. It wouldn't surprise me if someone who was "in business" with that guy knew what the message was intended to convey.

When people have plenty of money--and the guy never seemed to have trouble making ends meet--you have to wonder.

[LisaL]

9. Five grand is a lot of money.

So I don't buy that theory.

[MADem]

95. It's pennies if there was a hundred grand in the house.

It's only a lot of money if it's the ONLY money.

[LisaL]

11. They weren't living all that large.

Mercedes wasn't new.
What other evidence of them supposedly living large is there?

[Warpy]

13. The younger one recently boasted about wearing $900 shoes.

I'm sure other stuff will surface. They had money for the best guns on the black market. They had money to buy whatever it took to make multiple bombs.

Plus, living in Cambridge isn't cheap, far from it, never has been.

[LisaL]

14. But he could have been wearing cheap knock offs and bragging.

We just don't know.
I've seen no evidence of a particularly lavish lifestyle so far.

[Bluenorthwest]

81. Older had an apartment, a house in the burbs, Mercedes, wife, child, and took a 6 month

vacation abroad the same year his child was born. Both wore wildly expensive clothing, indulged in hobbies and sports 'training' and neither one had a job of any kind. Do you claim these things drop form the sky? Can you have the sky drop me a couple of tickets to Paris?

[LisaL]

84. Wife had a job.

He didn't support her.

[Bluenorthwest]

85. Ah. So did she also pay for the cars, toys, his apartment, the brother's dorm, the classes

and hobbies? He had an apartment in town. She paid for that too? What sort of gig does she have that can pay for two homes, a Mercedes, gyms, training, university....?
Most people struggle to pay rent and car and education bills. Not this guy. No job. A child and a wife, two homes and a Mercedes. No job.
That makes sense to you?

[MADem]

94. She worked as a "home health aide."

That is a minimum wage position, very popular amongst new arrivals to our land and illegals. It's a "just over" minimum wage job, it pays lousy, it involves doing housekeeping for the sick/elderly, helping them with bathing/toileting, making simple meals, that kind of thing. Suppposedly she worked 70-80 hours a week, so that's the equivalent of two people working minimum wage. It's not enough to pay rent in Cambridge (unless they were getting HUD assistance--but whose name was on that lease?), tuition/room and board at UMASS Dartmouth, which is $22,255.00 per year (and we know Number Two was not on scholarship--he flunked seven or eight classes in the past few semesters), and all the other expenses these two incurred.

There was "illegal money" involved there--make no mistake.

[tblue37]

100. His wife was an American, I believe. nt

[MADem]

108. She is, a young woman from N. Kingstown RI

named Katherine Russell. I suspect she is easily led, to put it kindly.

Her parents are sickened by all this. They put their house they lived in for fourteen years up for sale just the other day--I guess they feel a need to "get lost" and I can't say I blame them.

I feel sorry for them.

[elleng]

10. Unless I've missed something,

the only Mercedes he 'had' was the one they hijacked, 'borrowed' the owner's ATM card and $800, let him go (inexplicably. Maybe #2 wanted it so?), and were thereafter chased to Watertown by the cops following the stolen car.

[LisaL]

12. No, they had a older model Mercedes-according to the car mechanic that was working on it.

But since it wasn't new it was not all that expensive, I presume.

[elleng]

16. Used Mercedes are still expensive:

http://autos.yahoo.com/used-cars/mercedes_benz-overview

[LisaL]

17. I don't know where he was getting his money.

But I am pretty sure he was not getting money from dealing drugs.
He become a devout Muslim. Apparently very much anti-drug.

[dkf]

18. Like the Taliban?

[LisaL]

19. What does Taliban have to do with any of it?

He apparently became extremely religious in the recent years.
Gave up drinking and smoking.

[dkf]

22. The Taliban is in the business of selling drugs yet they are very religious.

[LisaL]

25. If it was a drug deal gone bad,

throwing pot on the bodies and leaving a large amount of cash in the apartment makes no sense whatsoever.

[dkf]

28. Maybe he freaked out? Although they do seem to be pretty cool even when committing heinous acts.

[LisaL]

32. I think whoever did it was angry at the victim(s).

[MADem]

33. It makes sense if you are leaving a message, a warning to others who will know what that means.

Don't cheat me, or this is your fate.

I would not be surprised if the amount of money left was specific and deliberate, and the amount of weed was specific and deliberate, too. Targeted, directed, revenge. A lesson to anyone else who thinks they can get away without toeing the line...

The unanswered question is "How much money/drugs did the killer TAKE?" That's probably more significant than what was left behind...

[LisaL]

38. While I agree it looks like a message, I totally disagree on what the message was about.

[MADem]

54. Why didn't he get annoyed with his sister's boyfriend, then, if he was so opposed to drugs?

Why didn't he go off on his little pothead brother, who was known as a pothead in college and had flunked seven or eight courses?

I'll bet we'll find this guy was a bag man for the mob--he picked up the money, and maybe even delivered the drugs. If I had to pick one, I'd say he was a collector. He's got the size and strength for that line of work.

[caseymoz]

48. It doesn't make sense for anyone to do that

But bombing the Boston Marathon didn't make sense either. It's not evidence, but the very fact he was capable of committing that cold-blooded crime-- and that the "symbolism" there wasn't clear there either-- says he's likelier to have committed these previous murders than anyone else. It's not evidence, but it's indicative.

As for Muslims not dealing drugs, I know Islam stipulate they aren't supposed to use drugs. I don't know for sure, but I don't think the Koran has much to say about dealing drugs.

But even if I'm wrong on that count, Islam also stipulates not murdering, and that's a much stronger proscription than avoiding drugs. In fact, it's the number one moral law of Islam. You see how much that meant to this purportedly devout Muslim.

Christians, even born again ones, bend the rules of their religion all the time, especially when making a living is essential to it. To count on religious restraints to be more reliable in Islam than Christianity is to not only be obviously wrong, it's also a form of stereotyping.

Don't mistake the term "devout" for "good."

[MADem]

58. Afghan hashish is some of the best in the world. And they are Numbah One in the heroin trade.

They grow poppies like it's going out of style--opium is readily sold in bazaars in the middle east, too.

[LisaL]

89. This was pot. Not heroin.

Just how much pot one needs to sell to make 5 K?

[MADem]

91. I know it was pot that was sprinkled over the dead--perhaps all the

coke and/or heroin--or maybe even meth-- got sold, and he took that cash.

Pot is quite expensive these days--no more ten dollar dime bags. Of course, the stuff is much stronger, often seedless, and if one tries to smoke it like they did as a youngster back in the sixties, they will get very messed up. It's also priced according to quality.

Here are a few articles that will give you an idea of how much pot makes five grand--it's less than one would think:

$63K--

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Calgary+charged+after+RCMP+discover+marijuana+worth+pickup/7790994/story.html

5K--

http://statepatrol.ohio.gov/media/2012/12-150.html

Amount, of course, can vary greatly depending on quality.

[MADem]

104. Check out post 103, the link.

Your theory about "don't sell my brother weed" is included in the ABC coverage...so anything is certainly possible!

[MADem]

52. Maybe he was selling or distributing drugs--like his sister's boyfriend.

http://dailyentertainmentnews.com/breaking-news/bella-tsarnaeva-boston-bombers-other-sister/

It's one thing to not use drugs; it's another thing to sell them. Most dealers don't touch the stuff. Most distributors, too. It's a product, they sell it to the "suckers" and live large.

He wasn't a devout Muslim. The very word "Islam" means peace. A devout Muslim doesn't make bombs and kill people with them. He was a nutter, no more a Muslim than that hate-ranter Billy Graham, with his "N-word and Jews" talk with Richard Nixon, is a devout Christian.

Annnnd....it gets better. Turns out devout Tam BEAT his other sister (the one married to a non-Muslim). This guy was a real charmer!

A woman who described herself as a friend of Ailina Tsarnaev described a different relationship between the woman and the elder brother.
Vicki Colon, of Passaic, said the woman feared him because "he used to beat her."
Colon said she met the two brothers during a visit to Massachusetts a couple years ago. She said the younger brother was very quiet....

http://news.yahoo.com/fbi-takes-computer-nj-sister-bomb-suspects-182553595.html;_ylt=AwrHgNkS_3RR2l0AGANtzwcF;_ylu=X3oDMTQ2ZW5qNmphBG1pdANBcnRpY2xlIFJlbGF0ZWQgSUIEcGtnAzZiZmRmOGY2LTZmMmItM2ZmZC05MzlkLTFhOGQzYzI0OWExYgRwb3MDMwRzZWMDTWVkaWFJbmZpbml0ZUJyb3dzZQR2ZXIDNGQ3MzNlZjAtYTkzNy0xMWUyLWJmZmUtZGIyNmRjYzQxZjI5;_ylg=X3oDMTJtdDlwOXE0BGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDZDllNzM5YTktNzJhOS0zY2YxLTg5NTAtYmUzMDYyYjczMzgyBHBzdGNhdAN1LXMEcHQDc3RvcnlwYWdl;_ylv=3

[alcibiades_mystery]

82. Oh for goodness sake

I don't think you actually know anyone in the marijuana trade. Here's an axiom: anyone who sells marijuana, smokes marijuana. Different for crack, heroin, meth, but all pot dealers smoke pot. I'll just leave this out there for anyone to check their personal experiences against the claims.

The problem with the drug burn theory also goes to knowledge of the trade: retail level dealers don't get killed in triple murders for drug burns. There's not enough money at stake. And these dudes were at almost certainly retail level dealers. The guy Rafi is noted as never having a job, staying home all day, having "frequent visitors." In other words, he was moving dimes (one of his friends even says as much), twenties, half ounces and ounces (if you're the neighborhood wholesaler, you sell half-pounds and pounds to the retail dealers, which doesn't require frequent visitors). This is low level stuff. You burn a source at that level, and the response is not to front you anymore, which would cause your business to collapse pretty quickly. It would be a bizarre response to take on three bodies for that - indeed, it simply doesn't happen, even among seasoned killers in the drug gangs.

I doubt this is a drug murder. These guys weren't moving enough weight or money.

[LisaL]

83. I don't believe this was related to a drug deal got bad either.

5,000 is a lot of money. That money was left on the scene. Pot was thrown on bodies.
Does not at all fit with a dispute over drug deal.

[MADem]

98. Again--how do you know these guys were "retail level?"

All you know is what was LEFT BEHIND. Maybe they were wholesalers, and they were greedy wholesalers, who ripped off the boss? Maybe they were supposed to take five grand and "x" amount of weed as their cut, and they were taking more, lightening the load down the supply chain?

I'm not talking about your local neighborhood friendly Freddy, moving a quarter pound here and there, or growing enough to sell and smoke for free--I'm talking about large scale guys who indulge in long distance driving and have vehicles modified for the purpose, or who get their supply from people who drive vehicles of that sort.

We just don't know. The police aren't talking and they haven't been for some time, now.

[alcibiades_mystery]

101. I actually told you how I know

The stories have two elements that would suggest retail level pot dealers, particularly with Rafi:

1) People describe him as always home, with frequent visitors. The implication is that he's moving small weight to lots of folks. That's retail level sales. The second victim here was also pinched with a small paper bag full of smaller bags, but it was a possession charge: another sign pointing to retail.

2) A friend of his is actually quoted saying "getting killed over a dime bag." I started being aware of guys moving different levels of weight when I was about 15 (years ago . As I think of the guys who were mid-level wholesalers, I can tell you that I'd never in a million years describe them as anything related to a "dime bag." That was three levels down. Seriously. Think of somebody you know who moves maybe a pound or two a week. If that person got killed, would you ever say "Oh, he got killed over a dime bag." Of course not.

If this guy was moving weight, he wouldn't be having the proverbial five-minute visitor over all the time, and his friends wouldn't associate him with dime bags. Retail, purely. Ultimately, he also wouldn't be 37 years old hanging out with 25 year olds in apartments. People who make triple-murder worthy money don't do that.

Now, I agree that we can't know for certain. Maybe he was the biggest pot dealer in the Northeast. I doubt it, though, and nothing really points to that. Stabbing three people who are not restrained is also not typical of planned drug murders - too much can go wrong. Yes, we're speculating. No, we can't know for sure. But this wasn't a drug murder; I' put a modest bet on that.

[MADem]

102. I think you are thinking of these three as a unit, when the

only thing they have in common is that they were all killed together.

They weren't roommates. Two were older, and from Cambridge. Cambridge--where Number One lived.

You could have one "retail level" guy being visited by a distributor and his wholesaler in this scenario.

Don't spend too much time looking at the activity at the house in Waltham to the exclusion of any other possibilities for interaction--two of the dead didn't even live there.

Perhaps your nexus is a mobbed up Russian guy, who lives in Cambridge and has a "best friend" who lives in Waltham?

Odd that he didn't go to his "best friend's" funeral...and took a six month trip to who-knows-where (though he did finally end up in Russia in March) the following January...

[sendero]

63. Depends on how old..

.... once a Mercedes is 8-10 years old it can be had cheap. What won't be cheap is keeping it running, they are ridiculously expensive to maintain.

[MADem]

39. He had a Mercedes in the "Will Box For Passport" piece and he drove his wife to see her

mother every weekend in a Mercedes.

The guy was fond of Mercedes vehicles, apparently. Expensive tastes.

The photo essay also reveals that Tsarnaev had a half-Italian, half-Portuguese girlfriend who had converted to Islam, that he drove a Mercedes and loved the movie 'Borat.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2312281/Tamerlan-Tsarnaev-EXCLUSIVE-Family-Boston-Marathon-bombers-widow-Katherine-Russell-puts-Rhode-Island-home-sale-day-police-shot-son-law-dead.html#ixzz2RAmoF9T1
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[elleng]

40. Thanks. Didn't watch that piece.

[MADem]

46. It was a photoessay; it was up on the web but then the photographer put

the pics behind a wall--you can still see them; in the Guardian and Daily Mail and a few other places; they are the pics of him boxing in the gym with the woman and with a sparring partner. There's one of him with a big scarf talking on the phone, that was the one with the caption that mentioned his silver Mercedes.

Pictures from that time show a young man in love with himself, if not the world around him. On the way to the gym, he poses in front of his Mercedes car in brilliant-white moccasins, black trousers, carrying the accessories – from sunglasses to smart phone – that American kids dream of.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10007975/Boston-bomber-arrested-Tamerlan-Tsarnaevs-hateful-rage-behind-American-dream.html

Picture in this article: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/inside-chechen-born-brothers-and-boston-bomb-suspects-tamerlan-and-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/story-e6freuy9-1226625136898

[HiPointDem]

15. I don't think the mercedes in that video belonged to him. I think it was for the filming. I saw

that implied somewhere but can't remember where at this point.

[MADem]

27. In one article, I read that he drove his wife to see her mother every weekend in a Mercedes.

Also, his best friend from Waltham was one guy killed in that throat slashing murder...the other two guys were from...Cambridge.

I think the cops need to review the forensics on this cold case.

Another cite for the Mercedes for the unemployed, never-held-a-job amateur boxer:

In the photo essay about Tamerlan’s boxing, called “Will Box for Passport,” Tamerlan stops to answer a phone call while walking from his Mercedes to the martial arts center. He has a long wool scarf wrapped fashionably around his neck and gleaming white leather slip-on shoes and is carrying an Oceanfly dufflebag.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/04/19/relatives-marathon-bombing-suspects-worried-that-older-brother-was-corrupting-sweet-younger-sibling/UCYHkiP9nfsjAtMjJPWJJL/story.html

To my eye, this guy looks a lot like a Russian version of Christopher Moltisanti. If he was a capo, I gotta wonder, who was the boss?

[LisaL]

30. They definitely need to look at forensics.

I can't believe that with three people getting their throats slit or cut, there was no forensic evidence at the scene.

[HiPointDem]

34. that video is the one where in whatever i read the implication was that the get-up & the car

were for the video rather than being his usual style.

but as i can't even remember where i read it or what the context was, oh well.

[MADem]

42. There are two mentions of Mercedes vehicles...

One is in the context of the photoessay (not a video), which says he drove a silver Mercedes, and the other is in the context of an interview with a neighbor of Katherine Russell's parents, who said that Katherine's husband drove a Mercedes.


His Amazon wish list shows he had more than a passing interest in Mafia organizational affairs, along with Chechan history:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/registry.html?ie=UTF8&type=wishlist&id=1PNVMAW2D4CT1

[HiPointDem]

45. i'm just reporting what i read. i'm not particularly interested in his (supposed) amazon wish list,

for two reasons:

1) it's the kind of thing that's easy to fake (and how did the public get access to it, i wonder, unless someone has an interest in making it accessible?).

2) people read lots of things for lots of reasons. my own internet use would profile me as someone very different from who i am, because i'm interested in lots of things and some of them are shady. that doesn't mean *i'm* shady -- but if i were ever suspected of a crime no doubt my internet history could be used to make me look shady.

3) selective reporting -- he had 2 vols of the 'decline and fall of the roman empire,' 'the twelve caesars,' and 'the consolations of philosophy' on his wish list too -- not light reading, but you didn't mention those....you prefered to zero in on the 6 books related to organized crime. maybe he's interested in organized crime for the same reasons he's interested in the decline of rome.

an interest in crime isn't necessarily pathological. as the sales figures in the true crime genre/murder mystery genre should demonstrate.

not saying he isn't shady, just saying i find this level of investigation fairly meaningless.

[MADem]

47. If you aren't interested in 'this level of investigation' I don't understand why you are

participating in this thread...I mean, that's what the idea is, here, to discuss these things.

It's a discussion board. The thread title is “Boston Bomber's” Former Friends Suspect Him In Triple Murder....

So, every reply is supposed to be "That's interesting?" No speculation? No conversation as to motive, associations, scenarios?

That would make this a rather dull and shitty discussion board, IMO.

Trash thread is your friend if you don't want to talk about this stuff.

FWIW, it is his account--I got the link from SLATE, unless you think they are lying...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/04/19/tamerlan_tsarnaev_dead_bombing_suspect_i_don_t_have_a_single_american_friend.html

[HiPointDem]

49. i originally posted what i had read elsewhere; you responded with his amazon list, which i don't

personally find very significant for the reasons listed. that is also 'discussion,' though you don't agree with the sentiment.

i understand you got it off the internet somewhere. i just wonder how your source got it. the last time i bought something for someone off their amazon wishlist, they needed to give me a password to access it. iow, those wish lists are (or were) private.

[MADem]

56. Slate, Salon, a number of news sites have it. You will have to ask them.

You can make your wish list public if you want people to buy stuff for you as gifts--that's what he did. You can also look and see which items he bought (the Cosa Nostra book, the Voice book, and a couple of other items as well) vs. the ones he just had a yen for.

I think, given the information about his 'wild-ways' sister and her boyfriend, who was apparently a drug dealer, that this "mob" interest has a certain amount of convergence.

The guy dressed like a mobster, too.

[HiPointDem]

61. as i said: the last time i bought something off an amazon wishlist, the person gave me the password.

they're not just up there for people to browse through.

he bought a book about voice training and the cosa nostra. omg!

i've checked out multiple books about gangsters, modern and historical, from the public library.

'dressed like a mobster'. because you know how he normally dressed after seeing him in a video. and half the kids in my town dress like gangsters.

this kind of low-level bullshit is witch-hunt material.

[MADem]

64. That person you knew didn't want their list to be public.

People with Amazon accounts have the option to make it private or public, and post their purchases to Facebook, if they'd like -- boasting about them, if you will. If it is private, you need a password. If it is public, you do not need a password--that's how these things work. Your experience was plainly with a PRIVATE account. This guy left his setting PUBLIC.

Again, you don't want to participate in this discussion? Don't. You aren't like a girlfriend, wife or sister of old Tam, and no one is beating you and forcing you to engage in conversation about this topic against your will. No one has a gun to your head or a knife to your throat--you are free to stop conversing, and you know how to trash a thread as well as the next DUer.


It's not a "witch hunt"--the guy is DEAD--and good thing, too, IMO. He killed three members of my community and wounded a hundred and fifty+ others. Forgive me if my first thought isn't to worry about the nonexistent feelings of that murdering, vicious, woman-beating shithead, or his crazy, enabling crime-laced family.

And--one more time--there was no "video." There are photographs of him. How many 20-somethings do you know who wear white loafers and dress like a cross between John Travolta in his disco days and Christopher Walken playing "The Continental?" He looks mobbed up. I don't know any young people in their 20s who dress like that. His 'styling' is purposeful, and it identifies him in a specific way. Not as a "gangster" the way the kids use the word, either. If this guy was mobbed up, he was a capo, not a foot soldier.

[HiPointDem]

66. you dont know *what* his account was set as. you don't know how slate or whatever got the

information. you don't know.

as for the books he supposedly bought: i've subsequently read elsewhere that books that were originally on the list are dropping off since the bombing --

"Very minor comment. Some items are dropping off Tamerlan Tsarnaev’s Amazon wishlist (presumably someone has purchased and sent them?). The following four books (out of 27 visible earlier today) have been eliminated:

Voice Power: Using Your Voice to Captivate, Persuade, and Command Attention
How to Play from a Fake Book (Keyboard Edition)
How to Win Friends & Influence People
Chechnya: To the Heart of a Conflict"

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/04/boston-bombing-open-thread.html#comment-1210587

one more reason why this level of 'detecting' is so stupid and plays to the lowest common denominator, the level of the mob. and i don't mean the mafia.

[MADem]

68. You just want to fight about what others are "allowed" to talk about here.

The person who thinks the books are "dropping off" doesn't know how to use the list--there are two lists, "wishes" and "purchased" and one can also look at both of these combined, under "All." The four things that this sleuth thinks have "dropped off" were on the "purchased" list. Jimmy Olsen, there, was plainly looking just at the "wish" list and not at the "All" list.

So, yeah--when people don't know what the hell they are doing, the "detecting" can be lousy. But Salon and Slate DO have a measure of fact-checking, more than your little blog source does, certainly. Nothing has happened to the list--the bozo griping screwed up.

[HiPointDem]

71. i'm not doing any such thing. i've made no comments about what others should talk about.

i've expressed my own opinion about how important things like amazon wish lists are, and what obsessions about them represent: of interest for its ability to stir up the lowest common denominator of public opinion.

you don't like my opinion: that's why you get nasty.

[MADem]

76. I'm not nasty, and I don't tell people what they should or shouldn't talk about.

I don't characterize their remarks as "lowest common denominator" or other remarks designed to denigrate or disparage, as you have been going out of your way to do. I can say "I don't agree" without getting personal or shirty or characterizing.

Check your mirror.

[HiPointDem]

109. i didn't characterize *your remarks* that way. i characterized the publication of the suspect's

amazon wishlist as an appeal to the lowest common denominator, the mob, & as having low information value for anything else.

i didn't tell people what they should or shouldn't talk about.

[MADem]

112. You've been going on about witch hunts and making disparaging remarks about every

speculation raised. You insist and argue repetitively that his Amazon page isn't public when you can just go right to it and SEE that it's public--it's not a secret, you don't have to rely on "sources" to see it with your own eyes.

Every comment you've made is the equivalent of "Oh shut up. I don't like this, I don't want to hear that." Like I said, you don't have to participate in this discussion if it bugs you. I get tired of some topics, too--I use the HIDE THREAD button to solve the problem, I don't carp at people who find idle speculation--even halfassed, out-of-the-box musings-- amusing or interesting--it's like tilting at windmills to so do.

[sabrina 1]

73. So he could have been part of the Russian Mafia, although being from Chechnya is that likely?

Otoh, it depends on his parents heritage, were they Russian living in Chechnya before the Soviet Unions collapsed? The mother is in Russia now and 'Tam' was in Russia about a year ago. Visiting his mother or his contacts there?

They must have some forensic evidence from that crime. Maybe the younger brother has some info on it.

[MADem]

75. The Chechens are big into drug smuggling--heroin, mostly, from

Afghanistan. They do other stuff too, as do the Russians, but they have a fair amount of expertise in that area. The father is Chechen, the mother is not--and the kids never lived in Chechnya, from what I understand.

He went there before his mother did. She was in USA in June, getting arrested for felony shoplifting.

Wiki has a couple of decent primers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechen_mafia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_mafia

I am interested in seeing if they pull that string as part of their investigation.

[sabrina 1]

80. Interesting, I didn't know the father was actually Chechen.

If they viewed themselves as Chechen then it makes no sense to attack the US, Russia would have been more logical.

I hope they do investigate the possibility of them being involved in the drug trade. And where 'Tam' was before arriving in Russia.

Thanks for the links, didn't know the mother had been arrested for shop lifting either. She gave a very emotional interview during the manhunt, claiming her older son was becoming religious and had been 'counseled' by the FBI 'for five years' and she refused to believe they were guilty, but then in the face of the breaking news as she spoke, claimed they 'were set up'. She is in Russia, or was at that time.

[FarCenter]

90. I've read that the boys are half Chechen and half Avar

Not clear which parent is Avar. Probably the mother, since they first lived from Chechnya and also spent time in a heavily Chechen city in Kyrgzstan.

Avars are the largest ethnic group in Dagestan, which may explain why they also spent time there, both before coming to the US and then went back.

[MADem]

93. The mother is Avar. They look very Persian, many of them. nt

When I first saw the pictures of the two bombers, blurred and fuzzy, I thought, "Uh oh...Persian," and that was a worrying thought, given the enthusiasm of John "Bomb Bomb Iran" McCain.

[REP]

96. I thought they looked like what they turned out to be ....

... but that's just because I have friends from that region who have similar appearance characteristics (I have a degree of prosopagnosia, so I rely on memorizing things like noses, hair, etc and the noses and other things looked very similar).

Oddly enough, one of my friends from that region also wrestles, speaks numerous languages, is a top student, has great manners - all the things people said about these two before they turned into murderers - only my friend is a kind, intelligent and decent person, and not a muderous scumbag.

[MADem]

110. With those two, though, if you scratch the surface, the patina is thin.

The youngest one was a wrestler, great student, reliable, etc. in HIGH SCHOOL...and then he was less reliable, didn't show up for his summer lifeguard job, flunked "seven or eight" college classes, was a pothead...

Same deal with the older one--he was an aspiring boxer, until he wasn't. One coach at his gym said he had no technique, he just had brute strength. He had no job, he did poorly in his few classes at Bunker Hill, he beat his girlfriend, his wife, his sister--and that's just who we know about--so while the surface looks likes a promising immigrant family, just under that shiny polish is a shitload of dysfunction, and, in the case of the elder, violence.

[KoKo]

106. They also look Armenian...

The younger one looks exactly like an Armenian boy I knew in college. The older brother looks like a Persion guy I knew in NY.

They could be a mix of anything....like most of us are. It's not what they look like but what in their background and growing up environment that influenced their lives in the direction they took. Trying to peg them into an ethnic loyalty seems harsh.

Also the parents of the Armenian boy I know in college disliked the Turks (you can understand why given the Turkish slaughter of Armenians). They always prided themselves on their Armenian recipes (they were excellent cooks) and they were thrilled to finally be able to visit the town in Turkey their grandparents/parents came from before they fled to America. They thought it was really funny to find out all their great Armenian Recipes handed down were Turkish Cooking and NOT Armenian.

So...things can turn out kind of mixed up between ethnic heritage and where one lives for awhile and what they identify with.

Just saying....

[MADem]

107. No one is trying to pin them into an ethnic loyalty.

They do look Persian, though (and there are Persian Armenians, as well as Turkish ones--just for starters), and if you look at a map, you will see why. They do also look a bit Armenian and Turkomen and even Afghan, and the map will explain that, too.

People who come from the same region tend to look alike in very specific ways --it's why so many northern Europeans have fair skin and hair and blue eyes--because they are all related in an ethnic way. In the southwest Asian neck of the woods, I notice a face shape and certain features--cheekbones and set of the eye, oddly enough--that makes me recognize someone from that end of the world.

America is more of a melting pot but that is not the case in other societies, where marrying outside one's group is a rarer thing.

We KNOW that they are a mix of Chechen (father) and Avar (mother). That's been published, there's no speculating about that at this stage. But those ethnicities can "pass" for other ethnicities in the region--that's the only point I was making. They looked Persian to me, and I was hoping, frankly, that they weren't.

[KoKo]

121. Yes...I do know some history of that Area...How dismissive of you to think that I didn't...

But, then, it's typical of your posts that you seem to have "more historical, legal and intuitive information...than the rest of us do.

How Dismissive...

How Authoritarian.

[MADem]

122. I think you are reading into my post attitudes that

are in your head, and your head alone.

So you just have a nice day, and we'll leave it at that.

[marions ghost]

119. Me too

from the first I thought they looked Persian. So that explains it. The Avar heritage.

I also thought they looked like brothers, from the body language when they were walking. Couldn't really see the face of #1 but they walked in a similar way.

[MADem]

123. Looking back at it now, I take your point about the body language.

The stride is very similar, isn't it!

[MADem]

99. Yes, his brother made a point of mentioning it, and

saying how the behavior of the "losers" has disgraced Chechens. The mother is not, though, and I was left with a distinct impression that the uncle in MD doesn't care much for her.

[sabrina 1]

124. That makes it hard to even guess at the motives for what they did.

It doesn't make sense that they would kill random people if it had to do with the drug trade, and I read that there is a big Chechen drug business also.

Maybe they did get involved, or at least the older one. But that wouldn't explain killing people who had nothing to do with the drug trade.

[MADem]

125. Maybe one was a means to an end.

Get involved in dealing/wholesaling drugs in order to raise money for ideological activities...? That's the MO in Afghanistan. They grow it and sell it to OTHER people!

I have no idea what the whole truth is, here, but I have a feeling that we won't be bored learning the details.

[malaise]

62. I wonder what else the boss could put him up to?

Criminality is criminality.

[MADem]

65. I wonder why he traveled to Russia in JAN, and didn't get there till MAR.

That was one helluva detour....and his father didn't show up until MAY....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/21/boston-marathon-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-injuries

As authorities guarded Tsarnaev, attention turned a trip to Russia in 2012 by his older brother. His family has claimed Tamerlan Tsarnaev went to Dagestan to visit his father, but an aunt, Patimat Suleimanova, told the Guardian on Sunday that he arrived in the area before his father. She said Tamerlan Tsarnaev left the United States in January 2012 and arrived in Dagestan around March. His father, Anzor Tsarnaev, only arrived in the republic in May. "He came to become acquainted with [Dagestan]," Suleimanova said. "He would sit at home and pray. He was learning to read the Qur'an. He saw relatives, friends."

Something stinks on ice with this guy.

[malaise]

70. Interesting

[Turborama]

50. Yes he did, he was a car mechanic

I'm on my phone right now, but I'll try and find the article where I read his former employer being interviewed when I get on my laptop later...

[MADem]

51. That was his FATHER.....he worked like a dog; sometimes repairing cars in the street

in freezing cold weather.

Sonny Boy was a "stay at home dad" which was a fun trick, since his wife and child had been staying at her parents house much of the time. This is why the uncle called him a "loser."

But here's something interesting--his sister's boyfriend was in possession of a very large amount of weed; his sister was arrested for assaulting (scratching/slapping) her boyfriend. They both got in hot water for not paying the rent--guess it was too damn high, or something...

What a family!

Bella in the other hand seems to have a wilder side and does not have the cleanest of records. Court records with the Bergen County Prosecutor’s Office reveal that a civil forfeiture case was filed in March against Bella Tsarnaeva and her boyfriend, Ahmad Khalil. According to the filing, Fairview police went to the residence on Dec. 11 to follow up on a domestic violence report claiming Bella had scratched Khalil.
NJ reports that while inside the apartment, police said they smelled marijuana, and found $537 in cash in a clear plastic bag. Ailina Tsarnaeva reportedly admitted to slapping Khalil, and was, according to court records, subsequently arrested for domestic violence and simple assault. Khalil, meanwhile was arrested for possession of a “large amount” of marijuana.
24 year old Bella, was born June 17, 1988 making her the second child of Anzor Anzor Tsarnaev, 47 y Zubeidat Tsarnaev, 45. Bella and younger sister Ailina lived together in an apartment in Fairfield, New Jersey but were evicted when failing to pay rent!
Don’t miss the video of former neighbor talking about the sisters being evicted for not paying the rent.

http://dailyentertainmentnews.com/breaking-news/bella-tsarnaeva-boston-bombers-other-sister/

I'm starting to think old Tam was in business all right--the Russian Mob business.

[Turborama]

55. I'm in no way defending him, but I'm a stay at home dad.

Does that make me a"loser"?

I'm pretty sure I read an interview with a former employer of his, but I could have misread it as it was a flood of new info and I was getting used to all the new unusual names.

I'll double check when I can...

[MADem]

57. You would be a loser if you stayed at home and your child stayed in a different

state with his or her mother--which is what was going on with this family, apparently.

Mother spent more time with grandmama than she did with her husband.

I've never seen a thing about Tam holding a job. Who can take off for six months to prance off to Russia if they have to punch a clock?

It's something a mobster can do, though, without much trouble at all.

[Turborama]

59. That's not what stay at home dads do, though.

Stay at home dads stay at home and take care of their child/children.

Just to clarify.

[MADem]

60. Well, yeah. I'll bet you don't beat your wife, girlfriend or sister, either.

But old 'Tam' had a reputation for doing just that.

[polly7]

97. Yes, I read the father could never get past the language barrier and couldn't

fulfill his dream of owning his own shop. He also had brain cancer and so returned home, then to Germany for treatment and again back home (I'm not sure of the name of the town). He sounded like a man who'd worked very hard while in the U.S.

[Tx4obama]

7. Additional articles on the links below regarding the unsolved murders

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022721986

[flamingdem]

20. We've got a psycho, bomber, jihadist, alienated, drug dealer, stay-at-home dad, boxer

thing going on here ..

[dkf]

26. Lol.

Well if anyone wanted to make the case that he is unique and not the Muslim norm, they just may prove that.

[DreamGypsy]

21. Fingerprints on cash identify Tamerlan Tsernaev as 'D.B. Cooper' ...

<>

[LisaL]

23. Very funny.

Not.

[DreamGypsy]

24. Tamerlan Tsernaev found two objects called the Urim and Thummim ...

...which he described as a pair of crystals joined in the form of a large pair of spectacles. Unfortunately, after Tsernaev finished his translation, he had to return the tablets to the Angel, so there is no physical evidence that they ever existed.

[DreamGypsy]

29. Tamerlan Tsernaev is source of "alien autopsy" ..

In 1995,Tamerlan Tsernaev instigated a wide reaching “alien autopsy” controversy when he claimed to possess footage taken in a tent by a U.S. military shortly after the 1947 Roswell UFO incident. Tsernaev first presented his film to an invited audience of media representatives, UFOlogists and other dignitaries at the Museum of London on 5 May 1995. Although the broadcast version did not show the actual “autopsy”, video editions have the complete and unedited film, plus previously unreleased footage of wreckage presented as the remains of the alien craft reported to have crashed in Roswell. The show features interviews with experts on the authenticity of the film.

[LisaL]

31. Look. This is getting to be very annoying.

Enough with this nonsense.

[HiPointDem]

36. like some of the news reports aren't nonsense as well.

[DreamGypsy]

37. You got a point there, judge. (nt)

[DreamGypsy]

35. Tamerlan Tsernaev finds evidence of Piltdown Man ...

... in 1912, Tamerlan Tsernaev found fragments of a skull and jawbone in a a gravel pit at Piltdown, a village near Uckfield, East Sussex.

[dookers]

41. He said he didn't have any American friends because he probably murdered them.

[dems_rightnow]

67. A sure way not to have many friends N/T

[elleng]

43. Thanks for all the 'fun' about Tam this morning, guys.

I'm going to bed!

[Tx4obama]

44. HuffPo has a link under the top photo on front page that says: "Did the Slain Suspect Kill Before?"

And it links to the Buzzfeed article.

So, this story might have some traction.

[WinkyDink]

78. Where are all the "DO NOT DARE SPECULATE!!" DU'ers now?

[Quantess]

53. Now, we all know he WAS capable of murder.

It will be interesting to see what investigators conclude.

[MadHound]

69. Of course they do,

And the cops will try to pin as many unsolved murders as possible on him.

[reformist2]

72. Good point, but the apparent odds he did it are a lot higher than they were last week.

[WinkyDink]

77. That and five bucks will get you........ People trying to fill in blanks with ZEE-RO info.

[BootinUp]

86. I think they are probably right

He may have been upset at their lifestyle since he has gone all radical muslim. I mean that sounds like a weird crime scene. Then he leaves the country for 6 months soon after? Gee what a convenient way to avoid questions/investigations.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

87. When I read that story....

....before all this background, it raised my eyebrows.

This guy was a thug, plain and simple.

[MADem]

103. ABC has picked this up:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/boston-bomb-suspect-eyed-connection-2011-triple-murder/story?id=19015628#.UXWTrLWG2So

Many theories posited in this thread--including the "don't sell my little brother weed" one--are included in the article.

[reformist2]

113. "And their throats were slashed right out of an al Qaeda training video."

So said the investigator. Perhaps a little bit of projecting opinions onto the facts now, but even so, he said it.

[MADem]

114. There are also reports that FIVE GUYS lived in that apartment.

One of them drove...a Mercedes Benz.

That's what the "Mrs. Kravitz" next door neighbor said, anyway...

http://www.wickedlocal.com/ipswich/archive/x1402245013/One-year-later-still-few-answers-in-Waltham-triple-homicide?photo=0&zc_p=0#axzz2RDzMTOhP

According to Morgan, five men lived in the apartment and they were frequently coming in and out. One of the men drove a Mercedes-Benz, she said...

...none of the victims
seemed to have significant ties to the city. He said it was unfortunate that they chose the apartment on Harding Avenue.
“It’s almost like they chose the quietest, safest little cul-de-sac in all of Waltham so that they could fly under the radar,” he said. “Maybe it worked for a while but somebody didn’t do something right. They upset
somebody in high places and they paid for it dearly with their lives.”

I don't think I can name a soul I know who owns a Mercedes--I had a friend in DC who had one, but I really don't think I can name anyone off the top of my head that I associate with now who has one. And these young kids in this bomber's circle, in their 20s and 30s seem to favor 'em--odd, that...

[FarCenter]

115. If it was over selling little brother weed, then little brother is also good for the murder

Little brother would know that his big brother objected to his use, that his big brother knew who was supplying him, and what happened to his supplier and how.

So little brother is at least accessory after the fact.

OTOH, little brother may have been directly involved. Seems to me that killing the three was more than a one man job, although it is possible that Tamerlan could have had one of them tie up the others at gunpoint, then tied up the third, and then slashed their throats. It would be easier if little bother was helping so one could hold them at gunpoint while the other tied up the victims.

Of course the accomplice could be the Armenian mentor, but it's unlikely that he would become that closely involved.

[MADem]

116. Three dead, but the neighbor says five lived there.

I wonder who the other two were?

http://www.wickedlocal.com/ipswich/archive/x1402245013/One-year-later-still-few-answers-in-Waltham-triple-homicide?photo=0&zc_p=0#axzz2RDzMTOhP

[dkf]

117. I still do not understand Tamerlan's living arrangements.

The wife says he was with her that morning. Where was this? Where was he watching the baby?

If he was getting money from outside sources, possibly drugs, is she guilty of anything? She must know how much she made. Was she in fact the financier? Was her family?

She seems to be in a lot of legal jeopardy here. Is she going to claim she was abused or powerless?

How clueless can she be?

[MADem]

126. Her parents have put their house on the market.

It's valued at just under a half million. They listed it on Friday.

My first thought was that they were embarrassed and wanted to get out of the 'hood for that reason. Now I am wondering if they fear that their daughter is in legal jeopardy for having knowledge about the plot.

How stupid can she be? There are guns in the apartment, bullets, and a whole shitload of...pressure cookers? EXPENSIVE pressure cookers, not the cheap Indian knockoffs that are made of aluminium, but the high end Williams - Sonoma hundred and fifty buck steel ones. And pipe bombs--did she just dust around them when she was doing the housework? She had no problem leaving a toddler with her husband and a bunch of weapons?

Something stinks on ice--not sure what it is, but it just isn't adding up. If she isn't in legal jeopardy, I wonder why she was so quick to lawyer up--and who is paying THOSE fees, I wonder?

[reformist2]

118. If it was over weed, it seems odd that Tamerlan would be friends with this guy at all...

It's all over the internet that Brendan and the other two friends that were killed liked to smoke. A YouTube 'tribute' video to Brendan says it all, imo...

[glinda]

120. Tamerlan's brain should be autopsied for CTE

"Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE) is a progressive degenerative disease of the brain found in athletes (and others) with a history of repetitive brain trauma. This trauma, which includes multiple concussions, triggers progressive degeneration of the brain tissue, including the build-up of an abnormal protein called tau. These changes in the brain can begin months, years, or even decades after the last concussion or end of active athletic involvement. The brain degeneration is associated with memory loss, confusion, impaired judgment, paranoia, impulse control problems, aggression, depression, and, eventually, progressive dementia."


http://sportslegacy.org/research/what-is-cte/