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mfcorey1

(11,001 posts)
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 07:18 AM Feb 2013

For the grammar police: One space after periods, people

My life is so perfect that today, I got to ranting on Twitter about people still using double spacing after periods. As is always the case when I do that, people pushed back, claiming that TWO spaces was the correct way, and that they hadn't gotten the memo about the rule change.
But they are wrong. It's one space.

Every modern typographer agrees on the one-space rule. It's one of the canonical rules of the profession, in the same way that waiters know that the salad fork goes to the left of the dinner fork and fashion designers know to put men's shirt buttons on the right and women's on the left. Every major style guide—including the Modern Language Association Style Manual and the Chicago Manual of Style—prescribes a single space after a period. (The Publications Manual of the American Psychological Association, used widely in the social sciences, allows for two spaces in draft manuscripts but recommends one space in published work.)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/02/12/1186652/-One-space-after-periods-people

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For the grammar police: One space after periods, people (Original Post) mfcorey1 Feb 2013 OP
This message was self-deleted by its author trumad Feb 2013 #1
In proportional fonts, it does not matter Kolesar Feb 2013 #2
yep i was production designer at a magazine for years Phillip McCleod Feb 2013 #83
No. It was proper English punctuation to use two spaces after a period/end of sentence. Honeycombe8 Feb 2013 #95
You are WRONG. Atman Feb 2013 #103
no it's changed. long since changed. Phillip McCleod Feb 2013 #121
Whose job was it to restore capitalization, then? Kolesar Feb 2013 #124
Anyone who learned to touch type, learned two spaces... I agree that with proportional font that hlthe2b Feb 2013 #3
Right-- it is a punctuation issue. Art_from_Ark Feb 2013 #5
No, it is a typographical issue. Punctuation applies to writing, not typing "style." WinkyDink Feb 2013 #23
And then along came HTML and the convention of ignoring extra whitespace by computers. Coyotl Feb 2013 #46
I remember being taught 2 spaces after a period too. But that was back in the days of typewriters. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #58
Who changed the rule and when? I never got the memo. robinlynne Feb 2013 #78
I believe the two-space thing was to deal with typewriters with monospace fonts. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #88
who knew? robinlynne Feb 2013 #93
I did. Atman Feb 2013 #105
lol. (double space) robinlynne Feb 2013 #107
thank you! angel823 Feb 2013 #113
Yeah. Same here. I am doing this out of habit. tblue Feb 2013 #109
Neither did I. Delphinus Feb 2013 #129
I cant believe "back in the days of typewriters." I know it is so, but it doesn't feel "back in the robinlynne Feb 2013 #79
Which is EXACTLY what I said. hlthe2b Feb 2013 #100
I still use two spaces out of habit. Laelth Feb 2013 #4
Ditto this^ my habit is an error stuntcat Feb 2013 #7
I prefer the 2 space habit..... less visual gluttony. firehorse Feb 2013 #102
I typed too long with two spaces, can't stop now easily. Don't see what diff. it makes on blogging. northoftheborder Feb 2013 #104
This is the case for me as well. gollygee Feb 2013 #9
okay . but are u sure ? whistler162 Feb 2013 #6
That's one of the things I couldn't care less about. hobbit709 Feb 2013 #8
Eye no, write?!? savebigbird Feb 2013 #12
Not this tripe again! TM99 Feb 2013 #10
Great article! actslikeacarrot Feb 2013 #42
But you're wrong. Atman Feb 2013 #115
No, sorry, TM99 Feb 2013 #117
Two spaces forever! savebigbird Feb 2013 #11
love it. robinlynne Feb 2013 #81
Is spacing that important?          Really?       ( n/t ) Make7 Feb 2013 #13
Do you think spacing disobedience should be a bannable offense? Squinch Feb 2013 #138
When I am in MS Word, I actually prefer two spaces because one space avebury Feb 2013 #14
I hate that "run-on" look, too. Buns_of_Fire Feb 2013 #25
<snort> truebluegreen Feb 2013 #49
Raise your arms above your head... Callmecrazy Feb 2013 #82
Hey! You forgot a period...some typist! Auntie Bush Feb 2013 #98
I w i l l f o l l o w y o u r a d v i c e f r o m n o w o n . Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #15
In the middle of your second paragraph my eyes totally lost track of the place lunatica Feb 2013 #16
But you are using only one in your post. WinkyDink Feb 2013 #18
No. I used two lunatica Feb 2013 #19
Only on computers, mon ami. On typewriters from back in the day? TWO spaces. This? One space. WinkyDink Feb 2013 #17
Typewriter??? Kalidurga Feb 2013 #111
I was taught to put two spaces after a period and one after a comma and semicolon. ananda Feb 2013 #20
Yet you used only one space in your post: "...period. In....." See? WinkyDink Feb 2013 #22
No, DU auto-corrects double spacing TorchTheWitch Feb 2013 #29
i wondered why my two spaces looked like one! ellenfl Feb 2013 #31
Thank you! gvstn Feb 2013 #38
If it is really important to you, Jamastiene Feb 2013 #127
DU autocorrects the double spacing as I noticed to my dismay. Blue_In_AK Feb 2013 #67
You can preserve the spacing in your posts if you really, really want to... Make7 Feb 2013 #69
Thank you, thank you, thank you. Blue_In_AK Feb 2013 #71
Two spaces after a colon, too, and capitalize the first word following the colon. eom tledford Feb 2013 #68
P.S. This isn't "grammar"; it isn't even "punctuation." It is "typography." WinkyDink Feb 2013 #21
You think this is some sort of game?! Earth_First Feb 2013 #24
who gives a rats ass. Oops isn't that rat's ass? n/t 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #26
Been using two spaces for 51 years. GreenStormCloud Feb 2013 #27
I still use two spaces. LWolf Feb 2013 #28
Nope. Two spaces. Sheldon Cooper Feb 2013 #30
Two spaces was what I learned in high school typing class. Screw up and get a whap on the knuckles. dorkzilla Feb 2013 #32
Me too Aerows Feb 2013 #34
Me three. no_hypocrisy Feb 2013 #60
Not this again Aerows Feb 2013 #33
What happens if I use 2? Marrah_G Feb 2013 #35
3 Republicans die, 14 Republicans lose their front teeth LiberalFighter Feb 2013 #43
Really? Chellee Feb 2013 #59
You've been foiled by your web browser. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #92
Tell me again why I should start using only one space? name not needed Feb 2013 #89
You rant on Twitter about grammar? Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2013 #36
This is the best answer. Jamastiene Feb 2013 #126
I think that is the giveaway that the OP is a subtle trolling effort... Blue_Tires Feb 2013 #136
omg u srs jsr Feb 2013 #37
*snort* dorkzilla Feb 2013 #64
The reason for double-spacing after a full stop: fixed-width fonts on typewriters. Spider Jerusalem Feb 2013 #39
Oh, boy. Bertha Venation Feb 2013 #40
Double spaces is from an era when typewriters were in use. LiberalFighter Feb 2013 #41
Yes, ONE SPACE. And after commas as well. And be sure to use oxford comma's. JaneyVee Feb 2013 #44
... FightForMichigan Feb 2013 #50
I use three spaces. To hell with you conformists! Orrex Feb 2013 #45
Thanks, but pipi_k Feb 2013 #47
I use two spaces just as I learned in grade school. Tyrs WolfDaemon Feb 2013 #48
your logo needs some Comic Sans pokerfan Feb 2013 #106
You have a point and I don't just mean type size Tyrs WolfDaemon Feb 2013 #112
I don't agree! Two spaces is the way to go! MADem Feb 2013 #51
My curse has always been run-on sentences. When I write one I can't cut down, it's a paragraph! freshwest Feb 2013 #120
I agree but my biggest peeve is with people who leave no spaces at all fried eggs Feb 2013 #52
If it's not worth reading formercia Feb 2013 #53
"Every modern typographer agrees on the one-space rule" AgingAmerican Feb 2013 #54
Does anyone here know a modern typographer? robinlynne Feb 2013 #85
What if mainstreetonce Feb 2013 #55
In high school for our senior English project TlalocW Feb 2013 #56
Every modern typographer agrees... TlalocW Feb 2013 #57
The rule is for publication only BainsBane Feb 2013 #61
Several premises of this thread are factually wrong -- just plain wrong BlueStreak Feb 2013 #62
Yes, I was a typographer and one space is the rule. n/t RebelOne Feb 2013 #63
uh oh. robinlynne Feb 2013 #86
Keep your modern typographers. mattclearing Feb 2013 #65
I was a typographer for magazines. RebelOne Feb 2013 #72
I was a typesetter for years kskiska Feb 2013 #123
Old habits die hard. Blue_In_AK Feb 2013 #66
Life is too short to worry about grammer bigwillq Feb 2013 #70
Maybe you should learn to spell. It is grammar, not grammer. n/t RebelOne Feb 2013 #96
Yea, I did that puerposely (nt) bigwillq Feb 2013 #97
&nbsp; frogmarch Feb 2013 #73
I learned how to type in 1971 Le Taz Hot Feb 2013 #74
Sorry.... llmart Feb 2013 #75
Whoah! tblue Feb 2013 #110
And Photoshop is not a verb Auggie Feb 2013 #76
I took the commerical course in high school and we learned two. I think even southernyankeebelle Feb 2013 #77
You will never get me to use only one space at the end of a sentence. Curmudgeoness Feb 2013 #80
I was converted from two to one. Ilsa Feb 2013 #84
And no second period if the sentence ends in an abbreviation with a period. gulliver Feb 2013 #87
That is debatable, and is not used in certain businesses. In the legal world, one space is incorrect Honeycombe8 Feb 2013 #90
I worked in offices for many years forestpath Feb 2013 #91
I'll keep using 2 spaces Lex Feb 2013 #94
Does DU need a style manual? pokerfan Feb 2013 #99
Is "Oh, put a sock in it" correct grammar? Squinch Feb 2013 #101
typesetters BainsBane Feb 2013 #108
I was taught two spaces. Don't make me go back and learn all over! NYC_SKP Feb 2013 #114
Two spaces was the standard and will stay that way with me. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2013 #116
I'm another old-timer who learned to type SheilaT Feb 2013 #118
I'll Stop Using Two Spaces When They Pry The Space Bar From My Cold, Dead Keyboard ChoppinBroccoli Feb 2013 #119
One-spacers are of dog-like intelligence and a similar odor. Throd Feb 2013 #122
I know it to be true Dorian Gray Feb 2013 #125
LOL! Anyone with time enough to count spaces after periods - lynne Feb 2013 #128
That's my space and I'm stickin' to it! ashling Feb 2013 #130
I was taught 2 spaces. And get off my lawn! nt raccoon Feb 2013 #131
Finally!! Someone has posted an important thread. 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #132
Whats a period ? Safetykitten Feb 2013 #133
First they came for our double spaces and I did nothing...nt Javaman Feb 2013 #134
Your computer is not a typewriter pokerfan Feb 2013 #135
This is going to enter the pantheon of DU Classic Controversies.... steve2470 Feb 2013 #137

Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Kolesar

(31,182 posts)
2. In proportional fonts, it does not matter
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 07:24 AM
Feb 2013

R U sure... learned two spaces in typing 101...brb
--sent from a non mobile device--

 

Phillip McCleod

(1,837 posts)
83. yep i was production designer at a magazine for years
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:20 PM
Feb 2013

and newspapers before that. always one space. going back to linotype.. one space. i would say that very many of us had bad typing teachers who simply didn't know any better.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
95. No. It was proper English punctuation to use two spaces after a period/end of sentence.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:37 PM
Feb 2013

There was no exception. This was to break the sentences up more clearly, making it easier for the eye to discern end of one thought and beginning of the next.

Certain industries have their own standards, however, that do not go by standard English punctuation and grammar rules. I don't know about magazines, but they may have their own standards because of limited space and the nature of magazines. I took a journalism course years ago, though, and I don't recall that it was standard to use one space after the end of a sentence.

I work in the legal business. It is still the standard to use two spaces after a period indicating end of a sentence. It is formal business English grammar and punctuation. I imagine it will eventually change, but it hasn't yet.

Atman

(31,464 posts)
103. You are WRONG.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:50 PM
Feb 2013

YOU are the exception to which you refer. Two spaces after a period ONLY applies to old school mono spaced typewriters. Law offices usually submit briefs it standard mono-spaced font, so that every version can referenced as "paragraph x, line x," and it is consistent no matter which typewriter was used.

But who gives a crap about IBM Selectric typewriter fonts anymore? Real typography dictates ONE space after a period.

 

Phillip McCleod

(1,837 posts)
121. no it's changed. long since changed.
Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:19 AM
Feb 2013

it was my job to remove double spaces after periods. period. maybe some people have done it wrong anyway, but as others have pointed out in this thread, every single style guide specifies one space.

hlthe2b

(102,502 posts)
3. Anyone who learned to touch type, learned two spaces... I agree that with proportional font that
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 07:29 AM
Feb 2013

rule is meaningless. Regardless, it is not a "grammar" issue.

 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
23. No, it is a typographical issue. Punctuation applies to writing, not typing "style."
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:51 AM
Feb 2013

In long-hand, one does not think of "single space" or "double space."

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
58. I remember being taught 2 spaces after a period too. But that was back in the days of typewriters.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:17 PM
Feb 2013

That rule is wrong for today. One space.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
88. I believe the two-space thing was to deal with typewriters with monospace fonts.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:28 PM
Feb 2013

[div style="display:inline; font-size:1.5em; font-family:monospace;"]If you're using a monospace font, like on an old typewriter, where every character has the same width, it's harder to see intentional spacing between words and sentences.  This is why the convention of two spaces after the period ending a sentence was developed.

However, today's fonts are proportional width, where a "W" is wider than an "i". With these fonts, and modern font-rendering, the computer will automatically use the correct amount of space between words, so you only need one space. In fact, your web browser will automatically strip the second space after a period if it exists.

angel823

(409 posts)
113. thank you!
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 11:24 PM
Feb 2013

I could never really understand this argument. I am older, and initially learned to type on a typewriter (IBM Selectric) in high school. Two spaces after the period was the rule. Or so I was taught. It's funny, I just automatically space twice after a period! Hard habit to break.

Since I have worked in various IT jobs over the years, this explanation makes sense to me and will probably motivate me to try and use just one space for awhile, just for fun.

Angel in Texas

tblue

(16,350 posts)
109. Yeah. Same here. I am doing this out of habit.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 11:20 PM
Feb 2013

Amazing that this is such a point of contention. Let me see if I can do it. Whoa. It's unnatural.

robinlynne

(15,481 posts)
79. I cant believe "back in the days of typewriters." I know it is so, but it doesn't feel "back in the
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:17 PM
Feb 2013

day"ish.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
4. I still use two spaces out of habit.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 07:29 AM
Feb 2013

But I recognize the MLA Style Manual as the best authority on such things, and if it says one space, then I concede that my habit is in error (at the moment, at least).

-Laelth

stuntcat

(12,022 posts)
7. Ditto this^ my habit is an error
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:04 AM
Feb 2013

It's hard to quit it when I've been typing that way for decades.
I hope no one's distracted by my spacing and thinks since I'm an idiot nothing I'm typing is important
I should start hitting return after each sentence. No, I'll try to change my habit I guess, hope I remember.

northoftheborder

(7,575 posts)
104. I typed too long with two spaces, can't stop now easily. Don't see what diff. it makes on blogging.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:53 PM
Feb 2013

This is not exactly writing to be published. I think reading on the computer is harder than on paper, also. That is why so many, including me, have started making much more frequent paragraph breaks. It is just easier to read a long piece with frequent breaks on the computer page.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
9. This is the case for me as well.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:06 AM
Feb 2013

I typed for ages with two spaces after a period. I'm pretty much over that habit, but I still sometimes find myself doing it.

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
8. That's one of the things I couldn't care less about.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:05 AM
Feb 2013

Now improper homophones and bad spelling is another story.

My pet peevee is lightEning instead of lightning.

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
10. Not this tripe again!
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:08 AM
Feb 2013
http://www.heracliteanriver.com/?p=324

It is all arbitrary. Typographers make up shit. Modern isn't always better. Know your audience. Know who is publishing you. As a member of the APA, yes, I use two spaces as I am doing here. You want to follow or need to follow MLA or CMS, then do a single-space. Habrace simply says to be consistent. If you are following a modern convention and use a single-space then do so through the entire writing. However, two spaces are just fine as well. As my parents were professors of English and I grew up on the Harbrace, I will follow their advice, thanks.

But get off the holy high horse of bullshit history that never was.

actslikeacarrot

(464 posts)
42. Great article!
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:40 AM
Feb 2013

Had NO idea of the history behind typography. And as an experiment, I went to my personal collection of books and checked the spacing after periods. All my older books from the 1940's and before had a larger space after sentences, while my newer books had the same spacing. Never even noticed ha ha

Atman

(31,464 posts)
115. But you're wrong.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 11:30 PM
Feb 2013

It is not up to your preference. In modern typography (ie; not old typewriters or lead type), two spaces after a period is not a "preference." It is an error.

Things change. No one looks at your two spaces and says "oh, I admire how he adheres to tradition." If they notice at all, they assume you just aren't up on technology.

I learned conventional typing in Jr. High, too. Some good memories, but I got over 'em.
Unlesz you're still touch tying on your old Remington...

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
117. No, sorry,
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 11:55 PM
Feb 2013

typography is not grammar, punctuation, or style.

Style guides for the various schools and professions will determine which typography will be required. If one requires single-space (Chicago or MLA) then you use single-space. If one does not or allows for a choice in preference (such as Harbrace or APA) then consistency is what is required. If you are doing it for personal communications that are non-professional, do what you want.

I work in several professional fields including programming and development with advanced technology. I seriously doubt any one will consider me 'not up on technology' if given a choice, I choose the typography convention that has been in consistent use for hundreds of years versus the illusory belief of typologists and graphic designers today who erroneously believe that because it is 'modern' it is 'better'.

So if you have chosen to change what you were taught, fine by me, but please do not confuse personal choice with 'right' choice.

Squinch

(51,080 posts)
138. Do you think spacing disobedience should be a bannable offense?
Thu Feb 14, 2013, 08:05 PM
Feb 2013

Like, with bananas and everything. Or not?

Edit: well shoot! I tried a spacing joke in there, but the damn computer corrected it!

avebury

(10,953 posts)
14. When I am in MS Word, I actually prefer two spaces because one space
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:17 AM
Feb 2013

after a period makes it look like sentences are shoved together. It kind of reminds me of someone who is a motormouth who talks a long time between taking a breath. When I am online like here on DU, a single space after a period looks ok.

Buns_of_Fire

(17,213 posts)
25. I hate that "run-on" look, too.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:33 AM
Feb 2013

And youre right it looks like someone who just talks on and on and on and on and never really says anything as if theyre paid by the word and who never even really pays a lot of attention about punctuation or spelling like I really get torqued at people who use loose when they mean lose but Im digressing here because I really want to comment on the single space versus double space issue because I too learned to type in the olden days on a manual typewriter that had a sticking "A" key and Id always have to stop mid paper to reach up and flip back all the keys that had clustered together and Id get frustrated and hit the typewriter and that would anger the instructor which is why I only got a "B" even though I could type like greasy lightning except for that damned "A" key but anyway I remember being taught to always use a double-space after a period which I still do if Im using a monospace font but I've broken the habit when using proportional fonts even though I still sometimes have a problem with brevity and staying on subject which is probably something else altogether but anyway Ive now progressed to the point where Im paid for the cogency and accuracy of my statements which probably explains why I haven't made a dime writing anything.

*gasping breath*

So, uh... what were we talking about again?

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
15. I w i l l f o l l o w y o u r a d v i c e f r o m n o w o n .
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:21 AM
Feb 2013

T h a n k s f o r t h e r e m i n d e r .

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
16. In the middle of your second paragraph my eyes totally lost track of the place
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:28 AM
Feb 2013

they were supposed to be focused on. Which means that then I had to again find the correct spot which caused me to lose your train of thought and my patience. Perhaps in actual hard copy the one space works, but online it doesn't.

As a web designer I can tell you that it's much easier to read when there's more white space.

Frankly I prefer the two spaces after the period. It's fucking easier on the eyes.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
19. No. I used two
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:39 AM
Feb 2013

Then it posted as if I was using one.

I also use two spaces when I can to create a new paragraph. I like white space.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
111. Typewriter???
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 11:21 PM
Feb 2013

I haven't seen one of those since 1990. The last typewriter repair shop that I know of closed around 2000.

ananda

(28,894 posts)
20. I was taught to put two spaces after a period and one after a comma and semicolon.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:43 AM
Feb 2013

However, sure, it's faster typing and a more efficient use of space to put one space after a period... and I don't think it affects reading all that much, though I think you'd find a definite improvement in reading ability with two spaces after a period. In my case, I know I would because my brain is trained to expect things by which to read pauses and inflections.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
29. No, DU auto-corrects double spacing
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:46 AM
Feb 2013

DU changes double spacing after a period to one space when you type two spaces. Having learned to type in the 70's, and typing business letters and documents for many years I'm in the habit of always double spacing. I've noticed years ago that DU auto-corrects double spacing to single spacing once the post button is activated. I'm double spacing what I'm typing in this very post, yet it will auto-correct to single spacing... which I happen to dislike as single spacing to me just doesn't separate sentences well enough.


ellenfl

(8,660 posts)
31. i wondered why my two spaces looked like one!
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:04 AM
Feb 2013

don't tell my boss about this. i'm always correcting his single space after a sentence. i agree it's easier to read, especially since tnr characters don't take up equal space. i wish all fonts were like courier!

gvstn

(2,805 posts)
38. Thank you!
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:29 AM
Feb 2013

From what I can tell almost all boards or other non word-proccessing software auto-corrects the two spaces to one. So it doesn't make any difference. Yes, it is more efficient to use one space but in the finished product it all comes out the same way.

I haven't broken the habit, yet. But I do understand the reasoning.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
127. If it is really important to you,
Thu Feb 14, 2013, 08:21 AM
Feb 2013

you can add & non-breaking space (use & then add the first letters of non-breaking space) for the second space to actually show up. I noticed DU doing that years ago and got out of the habit of bothering with the second space because of that. It really does look better though.

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
67. DU autocorrects the double spacing as I noticed to my dismay.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:29 PM
Feb 2013

I hate machines that correct my stuff, like that stupid autocorrect on the iPad. I spend more time going back and fixing their stupid errors than I do actually typing something.

Make7

(8,543 posts)
69. You can preserve the spacing in your posts if you really, really want to...
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:41 PM
Feb 2013

...by adding the following CSS:

[div class="excerpt" style="display:inline-block; margin-left:1em; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-radius:.4615em; box-shadow:-1px -1px 3px #999999 inset;"][font color="#000055"][div style="white-space:pre-wrap;"][/font]text here[font color="#000055"][/div][/font]

[div style="white-space:pre-wrap;"]One drawback with that code is that hitting enter will cause two line breaks instead of a single one. Which sort of makes sense from a typing standpoint - hit enter once and you get a new paragraph with a singe line between the previous one - but the text looks different in the text entry box and the preview/post since in the text entry field there won't be an empty line between paragraphs.[div style="width:100%; height:1em; border-bottom:1px solid #bbbbbb;"]
You can also turn auto-correction off on your iPad.

Settings > General > Keyboard > Auto-Correction > Off

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
71. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:48 PM
Feb 2013

I really don't care that much about the spaces but the autocorrect drives me crazy.

 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
21. P.S. This isn't "grammar"; it isn't even "punctuation." It is "typography."
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:44 AM
Feb 2013

"The typist may wish to continue using two spaces after a period, but the typographer should not."
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2011/08/15/mind-your-en-and-em-dashes-typographic-etiquette/

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
28. I still use two spaces.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:45 AM
Feb 2013

First, I learned that way. I could change, but haven't because of reason # 2: it's easier to read. I teach my students to use two spaces. Why? I have to read many, many papers. Two spaces reduces the eye strain.

dorkzilla

(5,141 posts)
32. Two spaces was what I learned in high school typing class. Screw up and get a whap on the knuckles.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:05 AM
Feb 2013

I like my knuckles. I don't like people telling me that the rules changed and insisting I go along with it. I also won't wear white after Labor Day. Shoot me.

LiberalFighter

(51,282 posts)
43. 3 Republicans die, 14 Republicans lose their front teeth
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:43 AM
Feb 2013

5 Republicans get arrested and go to jail for using cocaine

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
92. You've been foiled by your web browser.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:35 PM
Feb 2013

It automatically strips the extra space. So ".  Blah" becomes ". Blah".

But if you use the &nbsp; character, you can force the browser to explicitly display an extra space.  This way, you can help things along.  So, every time a sentence is ended with two spaces after the period, a Republican dies?  I only want to do my share.  I'm just trying to be helpful.  I wouldn't want modern technology to undermine my efforts.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,227 posts)
36. You rant on Twitter about grammar?
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:27 AM
Feb 2013

Have you even seen Twitter?

Why waste your time? Double spacing after periods is the least of your worries there.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
136. I think that is the giveaway that the OP is a subtle trolling effort...
Thu Feb 14, 2013, 01:58 PM
Feb 2013

Even on the innernettes, precious few people have such an acute lack of self-awareness...

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
39. The reason for double-spacing after a full stop: fixed-width fonts on typewriters.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:31 AM
Feb 2013

Proportional fonts have proper spacing. If you're typing on a computer and not using Courier or another monospaced font, you should be using a single space after a full stop.

The problem is that there are quite a lot of people who learnt to type on typewriters whose obsolete spacing habits not only get passed on but are bizarrely insisted upon (see: the number of teachers who insist that any assignments/papers have double spacing despite the fact that it's not been "correct" for some time now).

LiberalFighter

(51,282 posts)
41. Double spaces is from an era when typewriters were in use.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:40 AM
Feb 2013

Double spaces are automatically shorten to single spaces when posting to this board.

Double spaces are automatically shorten to single spaces when creating webpages using html. Unless you know the tricks to get those extra spaces to show.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
47. Thanks, but
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 11:00 AM
Feb 2013

I learned typing in HS over 40 years ago, and we did double spacing after periods. After all these years, it's a habit.

Also...my eyes are getting older and it's often very hard for me to see the ends and beginnings of sentences without that double space.

If someone doesn't bother capitalizing the first letter of the next sentence, or writes in long paragraphs, or even capitalizes words that shouldn't be capitalized, it's painful to read what they've written. And I won't bother.

So I say to people...if you care about people actually reading what you write, make it easy for them to read it. If you just want to write for the sake of writing something, go ahead and make it difficult. Just don't complain when many people don't pay attention. And don't, FGS, accuse them of having a reading comprehension problem. I say that to people in general, not to you personally.

Tyrs WolfDaemon

(2,289 posts)
48. I use two spaces just as I learned in grade school.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 11:03 AM
Feb 2013

My parents made sure that I learned to type on the (at the time) brand new Apple 2 (We even had a giant card in it that expanded the memory to 128k! ). For that reason I will always use two spaces. If this is wrong on my part, tough $hit. It will be a new way for me to spread chaos upon the face of the earth.

This message has been brought to you by the Brotherhood of Evil Hydrogeologists as we expand our evil to typography.





MADem

(135,425 posts)
51. I don't agree! Two spaces is the way to go!
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:36 PM
Feb 2013

I will not be moved on this score!



Now, if we could only get people to write in complete and coherent sentences, this argument might actually be important...

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
120. My curse has always been run-on sentences. When I write one I can't cut down, it's a paragraph!
Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:09 AM
Feb 2013

And I'll probably keep using two spaces because it's what I use on my own word processing files. Helps with astigmatism to have the spaces between sentences.

The paragraphs help to present thoughts instead of doing the insane internet posting thing. Too many lines of text and I give up usually.

My question is, what about those periods at the end of paragraphs or representing snippets online?

I use 3 periods then, and when wanting to show a pause for thought. I see some use 2 or 4. The 4 really bugs me. I wonder if it has a significance?

Here's the obligatory lol cat:




fried eggs

(910 posts)
52. I agree but my biggest peeve is with people who leave no spaces at all
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:39 PM
Feb 2013

in between sentences because they compose messages on their phone.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
54. "Every modern typographer agrees on the one-space rule"
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 01:45 PM
Feb 2013

Not true. The APA style suggests two spaces, which is what I used in college.

Not that it means anything on the internet...

TlalocW

(15,394 posts)
56. In high school for our senior English project
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:07 PM
Feb 2013

We had to buy some guideline that everyone agreed set the standard on how to do things on punctuation, endnotes, footnotes, etc. I can't remember the name of it. The teacher said that they come out with new guidelines every few years so people have to buy a new one. I learned two spaces after a period and a colon, and I will do that until the day I die!

TlalocW

TlalocW

(15,394 posts)
57. Every modern typographer agrees...
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:08 PM
Feb 2013

That putting two spaces after a period is doubleplusungood.

TlalocW

BainsBane

(53,116 posts)
61. The rule is for publication only
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 03:30 PM
Feb 2013

Take a pill. This is the internet. You need something more important to worry about in life.

 

BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)
62. Several premises of this thread are factually wrong -- just plain wrong
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 03:43 PM
Feb 2013

1) In most proportional spacing systems, the extra space DOES make a difference. White space is apportioned throughout the line, and a double space will usually get more width than a single space.

2) The most popular web browsers actually DO have a problem with the double spaces. They do NOT ignore repetitive spaces. If a line happens to wrap right at the end of a sentence with a double space, you will normally see the next line begin with a space.

Those are facts. Now for opinions:

1) Screw the typesetters.

2) It is easier to read documents where the sentences are more clearly delineated with the extra space.

3) For web apps, you really need to stick to one space because the space-at-the-beginning problem is really annoying.

mattclearing

(10,091 posts)
65. Keep your modern typographers.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:10 PM
Feb 2013

It's an arbitrary and unnecessary rule. If you, or anyone else, have nothing better to do than argue about it, have fun. I prefer using two-spaces; I prefer the look of two spaces, and I'm going to continue to do it because I can. It's not spelling and it's not even grammar, and the importance of this distinction is negligible. This is a controversy of dubious merit, and I question the priorities of people who really care about it.

RebelOne

(30,947 posts)
72. I was a typographer for magazines.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:53 PM
Feb 2013

Just check any magazine on the newsstand and you will not see 2 spaces after the end of a sentence. Or look at any book and you will see only one space after a period.

kskiska

(27,051 posts)
123. I was a typesetter for years
Thu Feb 14, 2013, 01:51 AM
Feb 2013

There's a visual aspect to this. Try setting a long justified paragraph with two spaces after periods. You end up with "rivers" of white space throughout, since spaces between words are apportioned as to the number of words on each line. Some lines will have more space between words than others. Take a look at any newspaper, magazine, or book. The two-space rule was strictly for old monotype typewriters. You'd never get a job as a typesetter if you insert two spaces after periods.

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
66. Old habits die hard.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:23 PM
Feb 2013

I was a secretary my entire working life and a court transcriptionist for 10 years (where the rules were very strict and they insisted on two spaces after a sentence). I'm going to continue to use two spaces and hope someone doesn't like it.

 

bigwillq

(72,790 posts)
70. Life is too short to worry about grammer
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:43 PM
Feb 2013

So I spell something wrong. So I misuse a period. So what?
You think I am stoopid because I did that? So what.

Life is too short. I am living mine. You're too busy worrying about a period.

(not a direct attack on you)

frogmarch

(12,161 posts)
73. &nbsp;
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:53 PM
Feb 2013

Really?   I didn't know that.   Back in the olden days it was two spaces after a period.   Oh, well, okay.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
74. I learned how to type in 1971
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:59 PM
Feb 2013

and I'm too fucking old to change now. Two spaces and be sure to stew long and hard about it.

llmart

(15,565 posts)
75. Sorry....
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:05 PM
Feb 2013

but you're wrong. I had a job interview today and there was a typing test involved and the HR person told me not to forget that it's two spaces between a period and the next word. I already knew that since I learned how to type in 1965 so I had no problem with it.

 

southernyankeebelle

(11,304 posts)
77. I took the commerical course in high school and we learned two. I think even
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:09 PM
Feb 2013

when I was working for the government we did two spaces. When did it change?

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
80. You will never get me to use only one space at the end of a sentence.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:17 PM
Feb 2013

Maybe I am just too old. Maybe I have been typing for at least 45 years and I will not change. Maybe it was drilled into me for years to use two spaces at the end of a sentence.

Whatever the reason, I refuse to use one space at the end of a sentence. Go ahead and beat on me.

Ilsa

(61,710 posts)
84. I was converted from two to one.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:20 PM
Feb 2013

I've been trying very hard to remember that. But it isn't always easy to break a habit. And sometimes my fingers don't work right.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
90. That is debatable, and is not used in certain businesses. In the legal world, one space is incorrect
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:30 PM
Feb 2013

At least according to most lawyers and judges.

Formal business still uses two spaces. The internet world uses one. Ha...I see by habit I used two spaces just now. But truth is, I often use one space on the internet. But in formal business, I use two.

Either way is considered correct, I believe...at least when I looked it up.

 

forestpath

(3,102 posts)
91. I worked in offices for many years
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:32 PM
Feb 2013

and the rule was two spaces. The GPO style manual was our bible. If things have changed, I don't care, nobody's paying me to type or edit now and I won't knock myself out to remember when typing is an automatic function for me.

And I detected a distinct whiff of age-ism in that Kos post.

Lex

(34,108 posts)
94. I'll keep using 2 spaces
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:36 PM
Feb 2013

because I like it like that. The Chicago Manual of Style can get off my lawn!


pokerfan

(27,677 posts)
99. Does DU need a style manual?
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:02 PM
Feb 2013

• Use italics, not underlining, for case names and emphasis. Case names are not underlined in the United States Reports, the Solicitor General’s briefs, or law reviews, for good reason. Underlining masks the descenders (the bottom parts of g, j, p, q, and y). This interferes with reading, because we recognize characters by shape. An underscore makes characters look more alike, which not only slows reading but also impairs comprehension.

• Use real typographic quotes (“ and ”) and real apostrophes (’), not foot and inch marks. Reserve straight ticks for feet, inches, and minutes of arc.

Put only one space after punctuation. The typewriter convention of two spaces is for monospaced type only. When used with proportionally spaced type, extra spaces lead to what typographers call “rivers”—wide, meandering areas of white space up and down a page. Rivers interfere with the eyes’ movement from one word to the next.

• Do not justify your text unless you hyphenate it too. If you fully justify unhyphenated text, rivers result as the word processing or page layout pro- gram adds white space between words so that the margins line up.

• Do not justify monospaced type. Justification is incompatible with equal character widths, the defining feature of a monospaced face. If you want vari- able spacing, choose a proportionally spaced face to start with. Your computer can justify a monospaced face, but it does so by inserting spaces that make for big gaps between (and sometimes within) words. The effects of these spaces can be worse than rivers in proportionally spaced type.

• Indent the first line of each paragraph ¼ inch or less. Big indents disrupt the flow of text. The half-inch indent comes from the tab key on a typewriter. It is never used in professionally set type, where the normal indent is one em (the width of the letter “m”).

• Cut down on long footnotes and long block quotes. Because block quotes and footnotes count toward the type volume limit, these devices do not affect the length of the allowable presentation. A brief with 10% text and 90% foot- notes complies with Rule 32, but it will not be as persuasive as a brief with the opposite ratio.

• Avoid bold type. It is hard to read and almost never necessary. Use italics instead. Bold italic type looks like you are screaming at the reader.

• Avoid setting text in all caps. The convention in some state courts of set- ting the parties’ names in capitals is counterproductive. All-caps text attracts the eye (so does boldface) and makes it harder to read what is in between— yet what lies between the parties’ names is exactly what you want the judge to read. All-caps text in outlines and section captions also is hard to read, even worse than underlining. Capitals all are rectangular, so the reader can’t use shapes (including ascenders and descenders) as cues. Underlined, all- caps, boldface text is almost illegible.

http://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/Rules/type.pdf

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
114. I was taught two spaces. Don't make me go back and learn all over!
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 11:25 PM
Feb 2013

Besides, spellcheck says it's ok. Even Firefox says it's ok!

Waiting For Everyman

(9,385 posts)
116. Two spaces was the standard and will stay that way with me.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 11:34 PM
Feb 2013

So some honchos with pull, at some point got together and decided they wanted it different -- I really don't care what they want. It looks better and is clearer too.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
118. I'm another old-timer who learned to type
Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:01 AM
Feb 2013

more than a half century ago. Two spaces after a period.

Recently I joined a group of aspiring writers. None of them seem to know the basics of manuscript formatting, which is horrifying. Oh, and one of them used a font that with only one space after the period was harder to read, to see where one sentence ended and the next one began.

ChoppinBroccoli

(3,786 posts)
119. I'll Stop Using Two Spaces When They Pry The Space Bar From My Cold, Dead Keyboard
Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:03 AM
Feb 2013

I could write you a 30-page manifesto on all the English, spelling, grammatical, and punctuation errors people make every day and have no idea they're making. I was taught by my high school typing teacher that you use two spaces after a period. Not only will I continue to do it until my dying day out of habit, but I just plain think it makes paragraphs easier to read.

How many people still put two spaces after a colon like they're supposed to? Or two spaces between the State and the ZIP Code in an address?

The fact that dumbed-down English, etc. is starting to just be accepted because dumb, lazy people outnumber everyone else doesn't mean I have to start doing it too.

Throd

(7,208 posts)
122. One-spacers are of dog-like intelligence and a similar odor.
Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:41 AM
Feb 2013

They are also poor tippers and never return that CD they "borrowed".

Dorian Gray

(13,517 posts)
125. I know it to be true
Thu Feb 14, 2013, 07:36 AM
Feb 2013

but old habits die hard. It's just instinctual to type two spaces after a period. For me. It's just. The way.

lynne

(3,118 posts)
128. LOL! Anyone with time enough to count spaces after periods -
Thu Feb 14, 2013, 08:23 AM
Feb 2013

- needs to find something to do with their life. Push away from the computer and go volunteer with the elderly, the sick, the homeless. Work at a soup kitchen or a shelter for battered women. Volunteer at an animal shelter. Do something to fill that void in your life that compels you to search out forum postings for a space-after-period audit.

Or go check with a physician about your OCD disorder. Maybe they can prescribe you some meds to help with that.

pokerfan

(27,677 posts)
135. Your computer is not a typewriter
Thu Feb 14, 2013, 01:46 PM
Feb 2013

One space or two spaces after punctuation depends upon the typeface, I think. I really don't care about what's considered "in style." My concern is legibility and clarity of communication. I believe, given a decent proportionally spaced font, two spaces is unnecessary. You already have a punctuation mark followed by a space followed by an upper case letter. If that's not enough to readily indicate the beginning of a new sentence then either change fonts or by all means feel free to insert an extra space.

Times New Roman is lovely.... when printed in narrow columns ala a newspaper. This is because it's a rather cramped font, overly proportional, if you will. Works great in newspaper columns, not so good when it's spread across the full width of a page. Use one of the book typefaces instead. I'm a fan of Century Schoolbook as my go-to serif typeface but there are many others.

Another thing... Please stop underlining, people. This is definitely a holdover from the typewriter era where there were few ways to highlight text other than to back up the carriage and lay down a string of underscores. I have a couple of issues with underlining. The first problem is that it wipes out those lovely descenders of whatever typeface you're using and this interferes with readability. The second problem is that if someone is reading your work electronically, they will invariably feel compelled to click on the underlined word or phrase, assuming it's some sort of hyperlink. Don't waste your reader's time. Use italics instead, bold if you absolutely must.

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
137. This is going to enter the pantheon of DU Classic Controversies....
Thu Feb 14, 2013, 02:17 PM
Feb 2013

along with pitbulls, Olive Garden, breastfeeding, etc.

Happy to help

eta: I must have fallen asleep in typing class in 1971, because I've always used one space after periods before another sentence and no one has ever corrected me *gasp*

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