General Discussion
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hlthe2b
(102,269 posts)REALLY? REALLY?
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav
(408 posts)problem's still going to be there until you address the root cause. I don't have a dog in the gun race one way or the other.
hlthe2b
(102,269 posts)Pushing their talking points is not going to be met with favor from most here.
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav
(408 posts)some better ideas as a society to help the mentally ill, these types of attacks will happen with easily obtainable items, and the attacks will get even more damaging as each attacker has to beat out the last through media hype.
hlthe2b
(102,269 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)There is no move to ban guns. Why do you write as though you expect such an event?
TheKentuckian
(25,026 posts)You can't put a red flag in and not have it dominate the discussion. It would probably go off track or be ignored anyway because folks don't like addressing root cause, not much profit and control in cures but plenty of both in treating symptoms. Thus, all conversation is ever bent to such paths, cures are the stuff of destructive radicals.
Folks will go for that raw meat of the gun mention, that is instinct for many.
brewens
(13,585 posts)blame it on the gun ban boogie man. Why not STFU about it? There has been no suggestion to ban all gun.
rgbecker
(4,831 posts)I think rather "capping a months-long setup."
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav
(408 posts)I'm asking for suggestions,thoughts, ideas on how society can help fix this.
I'll throw one out there. How about we allow anyone with mental health issues access to free mental health care?
rgbecker
(4,831 posts)Kid with problems, is set up by FBI and informant, who for some reason hasn't been arrested even though he put the "bomb" together and got the kid to buy the phones.
People are arming themselves because they are afraid of the government doing exactly this sort of thing.
So we could start by restraining the FBI from this sort of thing and using the money saved to fund decent mental health care. These FBI agents should have put this kid in touch with some doctors rather than sending him out to buy cell phones after showing him how to build a bomb. Note that they admit he had no bomb making materials or knowhow before they got the agents involved.
These Fed agents are all in need of some mental health counseling.
Lone_Star_Dem
(28,158 posts)Did you read your linked article and the other article it references you linked to?
The FBI had been working with him and provided him with a fake bomb. It is nothing like the scenario you speculate at in your opening.
However, the FBI documents also provide no evidence that Llaneza could have pulled off the operation without the undercover agents, had ties to other terrorists or had any bomb making materials in his possession. Separate court documents filed in Santa Clara County show Llaneza is mentally ill.
One civil rights expert, Zahra Billoo, executive director of the Council on American Islamic Relations in Santa Clara, indicated that this smells of entrapment.
"Did the FBI take a [mentally ill] aspirational terrorist, make him an operational terrorist and then thwart their own plot?" Billoo asked. "CAIR has been saying this for years now: It's the FBI's job to stop operational terrorists. It's not the FBI's job to enable aspirational ones."
http://m.nbcbayarea.com/nbcbayarea/pm_108022/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=yQ2WP287
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav
(408 posts)setting people up. So how do we FIX these types of issues?
Lone_Star_Dem
(28,158 posts)As it sits now the FBI finds people like this, who could become a danger, and they lure them in with a promise of fulfilling their fantasies. Once they act on them they're arrested and institutionalized.
We need a layer of protection for our mentally ill that comes before entrapment and arrest. However, our current system has huge holes in it which let too many people fall right through. Such as this person.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)As for handling 'angry people', there doesn't seem an easy fix...everyone has their own issues.
As those are being worked on, there is no reason not to make it hard as possible for them to act out on their anger.
Why do one without the other?
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav
(408 posts)& these things will still happen because we've left the mentally ill out to rot on their own. I'm not saying homeless people kill, but a good portion of the homeless are mentally ill. As a society we don't give a damn until we come up with options to help the mentally ill. The violence won't stop until then.
My family is very interested in new technology and science. I could give a damn about guns one way or the other. There are much more efficient (and deadly if one so chooses) ways to protect their home and person without a gun.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)they all seemed quite normal to me just poor people who fell through the safety net
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)we cant ban guns,which we are not,because if we did someone will make a bomb instead?
What kind of bizzare thinking is that,lets accept the carnage of this because maybe it could be worse?
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav
(408 posts)media attention. No matter what we ban it won't stop until we as a nation embrace mental health issues.
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)just ignore that part of the equation as far a firearm availability?
wandy
(3,539 posts)He had his initial appearance in court this morning and will be back for a bail hearing next Wednesday in Oakland.
Bail hearing? How about a hearing as to how thick the padding on the walls of his cell should be.
And for gods sake don't even give this one a tooth brush, he may do harm with it.
Would that we could somehow ban crazy.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)Poppycock. No one is banning all guns and alarmist claptrap doesn't make it so. BTW, implicit threats of race wars because you trot out NRA propaganda doesn't serve you well either.
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav
(408 posts)get to the root issue which is mental illness. They won't just continue to happen, they'll get far more destructive as each one will have to beat out the last for media attention. I never implied anything about a race war. Never even typed the word race.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Funny, how nations with less guns, and mental illness have less shootings.
Lone_Star_Dem
(28,158 posts)Is baffling.
In the case you offer in your OP there is no evidence the person would have been a danger to anyone if the FBI had not worked on him and provided him with a means.
Maybe could possibly have been a threat, if they're worked into it by the FBI, and only then if they had the bomb provided to them by the FBI, does not a threat make.
You still don't get that.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)to get him to commit what he thought was a crime, and we're all supposed to be concerned?
This little scam the FBI is running where they target confused people and put a pretend bomb in their hand so they can be arrested wore thin a long time ago.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)DollarBillHines
(1,922 posts)You are so right, this tactic has grown old and tired.
But most folks just read the headlines.
ThatPoetGuy
(1,747 posts)because he went for bomb rather than gun.
If he'd tried using a gun, there would be body-bags.
Further evidence that only morons and racists oppose gun control.