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I changed the channel when Battle Hymn of the Republic started (Original Post) MotherPetrie Jan 2013 OP
good samsingh Jan 2013 #1
I'm not real religious anymore either, BUT those choir members sang their a$$e$ off! TheDebbieDee Jan 2013 #255
Cool story. Drunken Irishman Jan 2013 #2
Thanks for sharing. WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #3
Then you missed something spectacular. lonestarnot Jan 2013 #4
As a non-Christian, I only missed feeling marginalized. MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #11
I've been an atheist for over 40 years. MineralMan Jan 2013 #130
+1 dmr Jan 2013 #235
I'm also an atheist, but I teared up. trof Jan 2013 #270
Amazing Grace is fine, but ashling Jan 2013 #316
Maybe it's an an aquired taste? trof Jan 2013 #325
well said, Mr. MM. Perfect. Whisp Jan 2013 #276
Its too bad that other people's beliefs offend you so much rbixby Jan 2013 #149
Christians are blind and deaf to this Warpy Jan 2013 #214
+1000 politicat Jan 2013 #241
No, the original reply that spawned this sub was intentionally offensive. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #269
Sure, spectacular pandering. cleanhippie Jan 2013 #12
The assumption that everyone believes in God is not "spectacular." forestpath Jan 2013 #42
I agree. Swamp Lover Jan 2013 #252
The battle hymn is not a religious piece of music nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #5
The hell it isn't MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #15
"Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord!" cleanhippie Jan 2013 #16
Have you read the words lately? Brickbat Jan 2013 #43
Bullshit. forestpath Jan 2013 #45
It's an abolition tune WolverineDG Jan 2013 #74
Some reports say the tune came from camp meetings, and then was sung as "John Brown's Body." Brickbat Jan 2013 #82
Since the majority of abolitionists were Christians WolverineDG Jan 2013 #105
Which doesn't change the fact that they're religious. Brickbat Jan 2013 #129
Still that in the UK dipsydoodle Jan 2013 #254
Exactly. nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #106
"In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea" Occulus Jan 2013 #101
An abolitionist tune nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #109
I knew that very well. Having performed it myself numerous times, I probably am more aware of that Occulus Jan 2013 #140
Not gona re type this nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #148
Well, it does have a smack of "end times" fervor... cynatnite Jan 2013 #133
Patriotic nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #143
I'm not crazy about the song, but based on your points... cynatnite Jan 2013 #150
You welcome. nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #158
Want some cheese with that whine? Nt geek tragedy Jan 2013 #6
I want LESS Chees-us MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #18
lol. The battle hymn was short, then they got back to business. but oath was on big bible Liberal_in_LA Jan 2013 #246
Yeah, fuck anyone who doesn't believe, right? cleanhippie Jan 2013 #77
No, just those who wallow in victim hood geek tragedy Jan 2013 #159
Think harder Occulus Jan 2013 #212
The Battle Hymn is an anti-slavery song. geek tragedy Jan 2013 #244
Apparently we Atheists are not allowed to enjoy religious music. Odin2005 Jan 2013 #321
why don't you save your ire for something that actually matters, like state funding to religious HiPointDem Jan 2013 #258
i don't believe in God and i find the OP stupid, reminds me of wingnuts crying about spanish JI7 Jan 2013 #278
How petty..... llmart Jan 2013 #7
I feel sorry for you that you can't understand that religion, and a specific religion, Christianity, HERVEPA Jan 2013 #65
Then you'll have to feel sorry for our President too.... llmart Jan 2013 #100
The inauguration is for everyone, not just the majority HERVEPA Jan 2013 #108
What a silly argument.... llmart Jan 2013 #110
I feel sorry for you... cleanhippie Jan 2013 #115
I DO feel sorry for him. cleanhippie Jan 2013 #112
Did you feel sorry for gay people when they complained about Rick Warren last time? (nt) jeff47 Jan 2013 #249
I stopped reading your post when I saw your Rudolph avatar FSogol Jan 2013 #8
On radio it CalFresh Jan 2013 #9
Are you serious? bama_blue_dot Jan 2013 #182
The Teabaggers wouldn't be singing an ABOLITIONIST song. Odin2005 Jan 2013 #323
You showed them Renew Deal Jan 2013 #10
Feel better? Politicub Jan 2013 #13
No shortage of bankers lackeys up there either RedstDem Jan 2013 #14
You missed a beautiful solo. n/t ChazII Jan 2013 #17
Good MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #23
But you were fine with the opening benediction? Mrs. Overall Jan 2013 #19
No, I wasn't fine with it. But Battle Hymn of the Republic pushed me over the edge. MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #31
Obama is taking his oath right now--thank goodness you have tuned out!! Mrs. Overall Jan 2013 #35
I already saw his oath yesterday MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #44
But he took his oath on a Bible yesterday--fuming about that? Mrs. Overall Jan 2013 #50
OK. Do what you want. MineralMan Jan 2013 #20
It was beautiful. NOLALady Jan 2013 #21
you missed out then sad-cafe Jan 2013 #22
Too bad. It was a beautiful performance; the soloist had a gorgeous voice. The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2013 #24
I thought so too. Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #27
Very pretty, too. Aristus Jan 2013 #30
I'm sure it would have been fine -- IN A CHRISTIAN CHURCH MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #38
I'm not a believer, either. The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2013 #61
Yup. I've been an atheist since 1965. But I've performed all manner MineralMan Jan 2013 #137
Judy Garland gave a rendition of the song in honor of JFK duffyduff Jan 2013 #302
why ? non christians and atheists like myself enjoy listening to it also JI7 Jan 2013 #292
NPR thought is was so beautiful No Vested Interest Jan 2013 #247
Too bad, you missed an Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #25
Good grief. HappyMe Jan 2013 #26
+1000 narnian60 Jan 2013 #62
100% agree with you Siwsan Jan 2013 #83
*!* In_The_Wind Jan 2013 #28
Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #29
+1. It's a performance, almost art. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #33
Exactly, tons of classical music treestar Jan 2013 #48
And I'll bet you would have stood up and cheered had Bush included this in his inaugurations MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #49
I did not watch the Bush unauguration. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #55
Not when I am NOT Christian and this is supposed to be MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #34
Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #46
Those with religious privilege are loathe to recognize that fact... cleanhippie Jan 2013 #104
Who says? WinkyDink Jan 2013 #163
The fact that it was chosen to be part of this was political... cleanhippie Jan 2013 #99
Okay n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #102
The only "performance" is going on in this thread ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jan 2013 #192
And might those be "the Grapes of Wrath"? thucythucy Jan 2013 #195
That's what the remote is for. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #32
many associate it with Lincoln OKNancy Jan 2013 #36
Inaugurations, coronations... whatchamacallit Jan 2013 #37
Dictators don't have inaugurations.... Historic NY Jan 2013 #76
I feel the exact same way. Sick of this religious stuff - this shouldn't feel like a forestpath Jan 2013 #39
There is no functional utility to an inauguration ceremony jberryhill Jan 2013 #52
Apparently you don't understand that it excludes a lot of people. forestpath Jan 2013 #64
No, it doesn't exclude anyone jberryhill Jan 2013 #90
You can't rationalize it with all your words and insults. It excludes people. forestpath Jan 2013 #94
Damn those pesky facts, *I* didn't get my pony! name not needed Jan 2013 #124
Christians can only seem to insult, why is that? forestpath Jan 2013 #134
Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #142
I didn't call you a Christian. And I am not intimidated by your rage and threats. forestpath Jan 2013 #152
You sound like Sarah Palin right now ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jan 2013 #194
Yeah, sure. JoeyT Jan 2013 #314
Sorry, sir.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jan 2013 #319
It excludes many. Igel Jan 2013 #157
Oh, he knows, he just doesn't care. cleanhippie Jan 2013 #127
the role of ritual in human society arely staircase Jan 2013 #261
Having sung in various choirs... jberryhill Jan 2013 #264
It's a historically significant song jberryhill Jan 2013 #40
I think it's OK treestar Jan 2013 #41
"So help me God"? Swearing in on a Bible? panader0 Jan 2013 #47
Where did I mention those? Nowhere. YOU did. MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #54
I mention them because they are a part of the inauguration panader0 Jan 2013 #71
Nice try. MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #114
Actually, they aren't. jeff47 Jan 2013 #164
Yes, those two should also be removed jeff47 Jan 2013 #162
I can appreciate your sentiments but find it rude to try to bring others down. nm rhett o rick Jan 2013 #51
Too fucking bad MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #57
Have you ever heard of Dale Carnegie? nm rhett o rick Jan 2013 #63
My hero. WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #79
Martin Luther King Jr. must have really irritated you jberryhill Jan 2013 #118
I cannot find the words chillfactor Jan 2013 #205
Wow. So we have to keep quiet so we don't make others feel bad? forestpath Jan 2013 #69
I think the OP was rude and counter productive to the argument rhett o rick Jan 2013 #197
And I think much of the response was so ugly and insulting that no discussion would ever forestpath Jan 2013 #202
Exactly. That's why I thought it wasnt an appropriate time to bring rhett o rick Jan 2013 #203
Yes, that chap marching in the street around Selma was just so disruptive jeff47 Jan 2013 #210
Huh? Are you trying to equate the OP with the Civil Rights struggle? Good grief. rhett o rick Jan 2013 #216
You couldn't figure it out from the post? jeff47 Jan 2013 #253
I absolutely agree with you. My only complaint was that I dont think it rhett o rick Jan 2013 #257
You get in a fight when it happens. jeff47 Jan 2013 #262
Guess what? The Civil Rights leaders were MINISTERS. Get over yourself. WinkyDink Jan 2013 #299
Relevance? jeff47 Jan 2013 #309
Yeah, the seats at the back of the bus still get to the same destination, right? (nt) jeff47 Jan 2013 #165
Are you trying to be cute and support the OP? If so, do you support the rhett o rick Jan 2013 #201
The ceremony should be secular jeff47 Jan 2013 #204
I think you broke the record for most logical fallacies in one post. Go bother someone rhett o rick Jan 2013 #217
Just like those pesky gays getting upset about Rick Warren, right? jeff47 Jan 2013 #250
You lost me at hello. nm rhett o rick Jan 2013 #265
Because you think I'm talking about you? jeff47 Jan 2013 #267
Rick Warren is a Gay Basher who wants Gays to be killed, how the fuck is JI7 Jan 2013 #280
It's comparable because people told gays to shut up or it wasn't the time. jeff47 Jan 2013 #285
context Matters , complaining about someone who wants to kill gays is not the same to me JI7 Jan 2013 #288
There is a significant difference davidthegnome Jan 2013 #218
It's just words? jeff47 Jan 2013 #242
your comparisons are pathetic, comparing saying the N word to someone mentioning God JI7 Jan 2013 #282
They're just words. According to you, that means they're just fine. (nt) jeff47 Jan 2013 #283
one is hate speech, just mentioning God in itself is not hateful, that was the problem with Rick JI7 Jan 2013 #284
Yet they're still just words. jeff47 Jan 2013 #287
you are the one saying it's just words because you lost the argument JI7 Jan 2013 #289
No, I'm referring to everyone else in this thread jeff47 Jan 2013 #293
depends on the context, if a woman used "shut up woman" against a friend JI7 Jan 2013 #294
So you're unable to read anything else in this thread? jeff47 Jan 2013 #295
equivalent to what ? how about the Poet saying Namaste ? JI7 Jan 2013 #298
I'm an agnostic from northern Maine davidthegnome Jan 2013 #304
And few passing mentions would get a similar response from me. jeff47 Jan 2013 #310
I agree in principle davidthegnome Jan 2013 #311
And you complained about past Inaugurals where, exactly? WinkyDink Jan 2013 #297
Please look up the history of the Battle Hymn of the Republic. janx Jan 2013 #53
+1 Mrs. Overall Jan 2013 #56
I know its history -- I still find it utterly inappropriate and exclusionary MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #59
It is a metaphor treestar Jan 2013 #72
The melody originally supplied a song celebrating the life and death coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #75
Yes indeed. And interestingly, there were TWO John Browns. janx Jan 2013 #125
Your post is one reason my long-running love (hate) affair with DU continues coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #131
. . . janx Jan 2013 #169
Interesting story. Thanks for posting. (In elementary school we were taught that the 1monster Jan 2013 #170
Maybe your teachers didn't want to get graphic... janx Jan 2013 #209
The line "He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored" always coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #272
Nathaniel Bacon is upset at being overlooked. historylovr Jan 2013 #306
From one secular being to another: Comrade_McKenzie Jan 2013 #58
You can sit down and shut up if you want. I'm not that obedient. MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #66
If you are offended, it is your right to turn it off and I do not fault you for that at all. However 1monster Jan 2013 #190
whatever your thoughts about the Carolina Jan 2013 #60
Whatevs. tallahasseedem Jan 2013 #67
It was written during the civil war, and like it or not it is part of the history of this country. still_one Jan 2013 #68
So I guess that today is meaningless to you? greatauntoftriplets Jan 2013 #70
That's pretty nasty. You think Dr. King's christianity is what made him great? Walk away Jan 2013 #84
It's funny how nasty so-called Christians get when you dare to forestpath Jan 2013 #87
It never ceases to amaze me how often DUer's put extra words in my mouth MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #111
I didn't. I am an atheist and I love that song. NYC Liberal Jan 2013 #73
+1 a la izquierda Jan 2013 #85
+1 apparently you are not an absolutist, which would, of course, mean that you are God. patrice Jan 2013 #155
But...you're saying I don't believe in myself?! NYC Liberal Jan 2013 #167
Some poets say you are a song & you don't have to believe in music to hear it. patrice Jan 2013 #176
Ditto that. I am an atheist, but I always like that song. n/t RebelOne Jan 2013 #189
When Chuck Schumer introduced it I thought that was weird. It's a Jesus song... Walk away Jan 2013 #78
Oy vey. a la izquierda Jan 2013 #80
I agree! narnian60 Jan 2013 #89
+1 tallahasseedem Jan 2013 #107
Agreed! Lilyeye Jan 2013 #230
FFS malaise Jan 2013 #81
Ditto n/t Bjornsdotter Jan 2013 #91
Yep! a la izquierda Jan 2013 #92
Geez malaise Jan 2013 #96
You showed them. ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2013 #86
I hit the mute too - LiberalElite Jan 2013 #88
Too bad you missed out, it's a beautiful song and it was done beautifully. A shame that you're so Raine Jan 2013 #93
Let's see WolverineDG Jan 2013 #95
They're really playing up the Emancipation Proclamation/MLK/African American President synergy deutsey Jan 2013 #97
As you should have! Puglover Jan 2013 #98
Yeah boy people sure are touchy LiberalElite Jan 2013 #113
And thanks for playing MISSING THE POINT ENTIRELY! Puglover Jan 2013 #146
One in every crowd. AngryOldDem Jan 2013 #103
I 'll alert the media arely staircase Jan 2013 #116
The President is a Christian. NCTraveler Jan 2013 #117
And yet your Constitution is not a Christian document. Quite the reverse as I understand it. mr blur Jan 2013 #222
Not sure what that has to do with anything stated. NCTraveler Jan 2013 #224
Where do you live? WinkyDink Jan 2013 #300
Lighten up, Francis. name not needed Jan 2013 #119
As an atheist geomon666 Jan 2013 #120
Agreed! llmart Jan 2013 #122
On this board, you could have a fulltime job... Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #191
They can't pay me enough for that. geomon666 Jan 2013 #263
I always pegged that as Union Civil War Era Nostalgia Taverner Jan 2013 #121
Sure... a Christian Abolitionist. How awful. Hekate Jan 2013 #123
Now the god damn Benidiction Coyotl Jan 2013 #126
Too bad. It was the best musical performance proud2BlibKansan Jan 2013 #128
it is all metaphor and even many "religious" people see it that way Hamlette Jan 2013 #132
... SidDithers Jan 2013 #135
Missed a beautiful rendition, then union_maid Jan 2013 #136
You know, every once in a while I wonder if I should declare myself an athiest. bklyncowgirl Jan 2013 #138
+1 LP2K12 Jan 2013 #144
Yep. name not needed Jan 2013 #147
You got that right. The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2013 #154
So could you please list what insults are sufficient to mention? jeff47 Jan 2013 #206
People expressing their 1st amendment right to religious expression is not an occasion for outrage bklyncowgirl Jan 2013 #229
Yes, it's only people talking, it's not like 70% of the public wouldn't vote for an atheist jeff47 Jan 2013 #237
You did the right thing. Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #139
Well, that's your loss. TheCowsCameHome Jan 2013 #141
*shrug* MadrasT Jan 2013 #145
We gonna get rid of all religious music? union_maid Jan 2013 #151
Then I presume RudynJack Jan 2013 #153
Just for you... SidDithers Jan 2013 #156
As an atheist Laochtine Jan 2013 #160
OMG, so many posts from people who must have just arrived in the U.S.! Welcome, immigrants! WinkyDink Jan 2013 #161
Oh, please. cordelia Jan 2013 #166
Fox News must agree with you obietiger Jan 2013 #168
This thread is rather ironic coming on MLK Day - lynne Jan 2013 #171
Imagine the full metal jacket hissy fit that would have been pitched Fumesucker Jan 2013 #172
Richard Blanco made all of those connections. Sky figured prominently in what he said. nt patrice Jan 2013 #273
So an abolition song rooted in religion makes you feel excluded, but you're fine with Rudolph? n/t hughee99 Jan 2013 #173
lol! HappyMe Jan 2013 #177
Great song for today. CalFresh Jan 2013 #174
Prefer "Dixie" Do You? jberryhill Jan 2013 #175
What a weird and ridiculous retort. Silent3 Jan 2013 #180
It's not religious, so it must be more inclusionary jberryhill Jan 2013 #181
So the idea of dropping both religious and racist at the same time... Silent3 Jan 2013 #186
Yeah, we can airbrush all of history jberryhill Jan 2013 #193
Maybe if it was a rare religious touch... Silent3 Jan 2013 #219
"those who hold a privileged position" jberryhill Jan 2013 #239
There's more than one kind of privilege... Silent3 Jan 2013 #248
On MLK day.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jan 2013 #196
Yeah, it's too soon. We need to wait to do anything. jeff47 Jan 2013 #208
No, I get it.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jan 2013 #223
No, it's just never a good time to start supporting minorities. jeff47 Jan 2013 #238
You don't know much about Julia Ward Howe, do you? jberryhill Jan 2013 #240
You don't realize this isn't about one song, do you? (nt) jeff47 Jan 2013 #243
It's most convenient to pretend it's only about the one song. n/t Silent3 Jan 2013 #313
Made me laugh!! DevonRex Jan 2013 #211
I was thinking about "Old Folks at Home." MineralMan Jan 2013 #215
That appears pretty narrow minded to me. nt patrice Jan 2013 #178
Oh brother zappaman Jan 2013 #179
It's just a song. RoverSuswade Jan 2013 #183
When a friend dies, do you boycott the funeral if it is religious? Stinky The Clown Jan 2013 #184
Be honest ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jan 2013 #185
Why were you watching at all? Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #187
So thrilled you had to inform everyone. abbeyco Jan 2013 #188
I'm just surprised you turned on the tv mokawanis Jan 2013 #198
At least they're not singing "Dixie." thucythucy Jan 2013 #199
Got a telephone? 11 Bravo Jan 2013 #200
I imagine that sooner or later, we'll evolve to the point in which any song sung, poem read... LanternWaste Jan 2013 #207
great cultural/anthropological retort to the OP and general observation arely staircase Jan 2013 #221
Alrighty then workinclasszero Jan 2013 #213
So you never go to the opera or art museums, I take it? You DevonRex Jan 2013 #220
Good. You didn't deserve to hear that heart-wrenchingly beautiful rendition. Phx_Dem Jan 2013 #225
It was beautiful. And I appreciated the wartime version of the lyrics (nt) Recursion Jan 2013 #226
Thank goodness they didn't read the Emancipation Proclamation out loud onenote Jan 2013 #227
I think it is one thing to object to the prayers dsc Jan 2013 #228
You have to think of it in context with the Civil War CanonRay Jan 2013 #231
You have more than one channel? Robb Jan 2013 #232
That's the history of our country. That's our tradition. I like it. JDPriestly Jan 2013 #233
And you couldn't wait to share your pettiness on DU. Lovely. Phx_Dem Jan 2013 #234
To paraphrase an old saying . . . Brigid Jan 2013 #236
"Turned it off and tuned out." No Vested Interest Jan 2013 #245
Real tolerant. Swamp Lover Jan 2013 #251
I clicked down to the bottom, because juajen Jan 2013 #256
As one of "no Faith," in either the imaginary or even you fine people... That was one of ScreamingMeemie Jan 2013 #259
Thank you..... llmart Jan 2013 #268
This a new level of stupid trival, whining SpartanDem Jan 2013 #260
Everyone in this thread should read this article & decide what's going on with certain kinds of OPs. patrice Jan 2013 #266
Oh, I think I know "what's going on." So much....CONCERN, you see. WinkyDink Jan 2013 #301
Like we're a bunch of babies whose brains are so easily re-programmed, we need NANNIES to tell us patrice Jan 2013 #305
They skipped the part about glory to old Georgia and to hell with GATech aikoaiko Jan 2013 #271
good. who needs miserable people on this glorious day. Whisp Jan 2013 #274
I'm an Atheist and i enjoyed it, i enjoy listening to Catholic, buddhist, Hindu etc JI7 Jan 2013 #275
Union won the war. Get over it. tabasco Jan 2013 #277
Did you get Offended by that Poet Saying "Namaste" ? JI7 Jan 2013 #279
I always found gospel inspiring. And I am Buddhist if anything. bluerum Jan 2013 #281
Churck Schumer is Jewish, i wonder if he was offended and felt left out JI7 Jan 2013 #286
Sure, you wonder. Did he SEEM like he was offended?? Good grief. WinkyDink Jan 2013 #296
How silly. demosincebirth Jan 2013 #290
Excellent! That's why there are so many channels Doctor_J Jan 2013 #291
How Foolish louis c Jan 2013 #303
Interesting how the OP GP6971 Jan 2013 #307
I do believe the Battle Hymn was written during the Civil War... WCGreen Jan 2013 #308
Martin Luther King Jr.'s Final Words in his Final Speech alcibiades_mystery Jan 2013 #312
Probably a coincidence Doctor_J Jan 2013 #317
Where's General William Tecumseh Sherman when you need him? Ikonoklast Jan 2013 #315
You must hate that free exercise clause... Festivito Jan 2013 #318
I'm an Atheist and love the Battle Hymn of The Republic. Odin2005 Jan 2013 #320
Wevs. nt Chorophyll Jan 2013 #322
Well, please don't watch the University of Georgia play sports on TV Blue_Tires Jan 2013 #324
 

TheDebbieDee

(11,119 posts)
255. I'm not real religious anymore either, BUT those choir members sang their a$$e$ off!
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:24 PM
Jan 2013

The soloist was duh BOMB and that was the most beautiful version of that song I've ever heard!

MineralMan

(146,025 posts)
130. I've been an atheist for over 40 years.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:30 PM
Jan 2013

However, I recognize that many people have religious beliefs. I'm not insulted by those beliefs. I just don't share them. I can't imagine why I'd feel marginalized by a song. That's just stupid.

You missed a great ceremony, capped by a memorable speech by our President. Too bad for you.

trof

(54,254 posts)
270. I'm also an atheist, but I teared up.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:01 PM
Jan 2013

I can't explain it.
That song, when done like that, just gets me.
I don't agree of subscribe to anything in the lyrics, but it still grabs me.
And I'm a 'Reb'.

So does Amazing Grace, especially when done by bagpipes.

Warpy

(110,524 posts)
214. Christians are blind and deaf to this
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:33 PM
Jan 2013

Our government was designed to be secular for a reason, so no one would feel slighted or marginalized whatever spiritual path they were on.

Christians are so certain of everything (being in a majority tends to do this) that they don't realize how arrogant this is and how many people are starting to realize they won't get any sort of a fair deal from this government because they are simply not approved of by Christians.

I realize this is an attempt to wrest god away from the iron grip of the Republicans while honoring the believers who fought against slavery. Unfortunately, it's having the opposite effect on non Christian Americans, a minority that grows every day.

Since Obama, himself, is a believer, I'd expect him to thank providence during his inauguration speech. However, holding this much of a Christian tent meeting is distasteful, diminishing both church and state.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
269. No, the original reply that spawned this sub was intentionally offensive.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:57 PM
Jan 2013

The deluded feel it necessary to belittle those that don't share their fantasy. They have no facts or logic to argue in favor of traditional delusions and since they can't kill us any longer, this is what they got.

It does, however, work to our favor over the long term since our minority is growing most rapidly in younger demographics and these back-handed insults are remembered.

Brickbat

(19,339 posts)
82. Some reports say the tune came from camp meetings, and then was sung as "John Brown's Body."
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:05 PM
Jan 2013

There were many variants, some risque. A call went out to clean the tune up, and Julia Ward Howe came up with the Battle Hymn of the Republic. It's full of apocalyptic imagery meant to tie the outcome of the Civil War with divine justice. Which, yeah, is pretty damn religious.

WolverineDG

(22,298 posts)
105. Since the majority of abolitionists were Christians
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:15 PM
Jan 2013

would you expect anything less?

Many hymns carry significance in the African American community precisely because of their use in the abolition movement: Swing Low, Sweet Chariot, The Gospel Train, Amazing Grace, Battle Hymn of the Republic, those are just the ones I'm aware of....

Occulus

(20,599 posts)
101. "In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea"
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:14 PM
Jan 2013

Nope, nothing overtly religious about it.

You are obviously, spectacularly wrong in your opinion.

Demonstrably so. With bells on.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
109. An abolitionist tune
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:17 PM
Jan 2013

That reference is to slaves, but you did not know that I s'pose.

Proper today.

Occulus

(20,599 posts)
140. I knew that very well. Having performed it myself numerous times, I probably am more aware of that
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:40 PM
Jan 2013

than you are.

I didn't deny the slavery reference. That does not exclude, or in any way modify, the overtly religious nature of the piece.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
148. Not gona re type this
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:45 PM
Jan 2013

Response to cynatnite (Reply #133)Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:43 AM
nadinbrzezinski (115,179 posts)
143. Patriotic




And it took those overtones during the civil war, not the present. The transformation for it into a deeply patriotic song took place during that very bloody civil war. It's origins are with the abolitionist movement as you correctly note.

It's also a hymn in the African American community. I don't know about you, but this is an African American President being inaugurated. This choice by Schumer, he is the one who chose it, is a nod to the community from a Jew.

So if one gets all those historic nuances, I can forgive them of using it. And Lord knows I know exactly where I lost my faith in a higher power. I also know we are not gong to have a ceremony like oh...Mexico's. our separation of Church and State is not that strict. Nor ave we fought several bloody civil wars over the issue either.

cynatnite

(31,011 posts)
133. Well, it does have a smack of "end times" fervor...
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:31 PM
Jan 2013

Abolitionists, including John Brown, used religion to further their cause. The song was to be a sort of judgment against the wicked. It was inspired by "John Brown's Body".

If you look at it from a purely historical POV, you could argue that it's not religious.

Given how it's used today, it is a very religious and patriotic piece of music.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
143. Patriotic
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:43 PM
Jan 2013



And it took those overtones during the civil war, not the present. The transformation for it into a deeply patriotic song took place during that very bloody civil war. It's origins are with the abolitionist movement as you correctly note.

It's also a hymn in the African American community. I don't know about you, but this is an African American President being inaugurated. This choice by Schumer, he is the one who chose it, is a nod to the community from a Jew.

So if one gets all those historic nuances, I can forgive them of using it. And Lord knows I know exactly where I lost my faith in a higher power. I also know we are not gong to have a ceremony like oh...Mexico's. our separation of Church and State is not that strict. Nor ave we fought several bloody civil wars over the issue either.
 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
158. You welcome.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:59 PM
Jan 2013

I wish we could have a truly secular ceremony, but that ain't gonna happen.

I have watched both the simple secular ceremonies in Mexico, president and successor walk into the Well of the Senate, the oath is taken, and a flag like thing is placed on the new occupant, the symbol of office is placed on the new President. Then a speech may or may not be delivered from the office...that's it. No gala ball, no inauguration parade...it's almost like any other day, and no references to God anywhere.

Then the American ceremonies. In an economic crisis the expense is a tad galling. And we need to find a new balance. But god ain't leaving.

The last point as far as this President is concerned, he likes to model himself on Lincoln.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
159. No, just those who wallow in victim hood
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:00 PM
Jan 2013

because someone utters the G word.

And I'm an agnostic/atheist btw.

Occulus

(20,599 posts)
212. Think harder
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:31 PM
Jan 2013

Imagine a world where you couldn't get married and have no employment protections solely and only because of people who are part of the religion under discussion.

Imagine a world where you can't even have your marriage acknowledged as valid in every state, but only a few, solely and only because of people who are part of the religion under discussion, and even then, you do not receive the same benefits on both the Federal and state level, exclusively because of people part of the religion under discussion.

Imagine a world where the deity of the religion under discussion, and that religion's beliefs, are used as a sword against you and everyone like you every day. Imagine a world wherein you are a target of such people for maiming, mauling, and murder for that specific reason.

Now imagine people you thought were on your side putting that religion on a pedestal and calling its dross a virtue.

I am a victim of this religion and its adherents. Daily. Twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, three hundred sixty-five days a year, and have been so for a long, long, long time.

I can indisputably prove that beyond any possible doubt, reasonable or unreasonable, as a point of law. I can prove it, beyond any question to any person, in multiple ways. It has directly and personally affected me for my entire adult life. And yes, it is damaging. Deeply.

I accept your apology in advance.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
244. The Battle Hymn is an anti-slavery song.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 04:53 PM
Jan 2013

This is all a bunch of worthless whining. Why not bitch about MLK Jr's religious speeches while you're at it.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
321. Apparently we Atheists are not allowed to enjoy religious music.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:18 PM
Jan 2013

The Battle Hymn is an Abolitionist song, for fuck's sake.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
258. why don't you save your ire for something that actually matters, like state funding to religious
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:27 PM
Jan 2013

schools & religious 'non-profits'?

bhotr is religious but religion isn't its main message, today or historically.

JI7

(89,076 posts)
278. i don't believe in God and i find the OP stupid, reminds me of wingnuts crying about spanish
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:31 PM
Jan 2013

or some other language being spoken.

 

HERVEPA

(6,107 posts)
65. I feel sorry for you that you can't understand that religion, and a specific religion, Christianity,
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:58 AM
Jan 2013

doesn't belong in this setting.

llmart

(15,362 posts)
100. Then you'll have to feel sorry for our President too....
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:14 PM
Jan 2013

since he has invoked the theme of God in the ceremony himself.

I'm an avowed atheist, but I am in the minority and realize that I live in a democracy.

llmart

(15,362 posts)
110. What a silly argument....
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:18 PM
Jan 2013

I still feel sorry for you. You just can't enjoy what a wonderful, historic moment this is without starting a silly argument about which music is appropriate.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
112. I DO feel sorry for him.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:20 PM
Jan 2013

I think he is an unwilling victim of the religious majority in this country that would scream bloody murder if he failed to pander to them. Were he to simply omit those references, he would be lambasted until his last day in office. You know it, I know it, we all know it. We should ALL feel sorry for him.

 

MotherPetrie

(3,145 posts)
31. No, I wasn't fine with it. But Battle Hymn of the Republic pushed me over the edge.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:50 AM
Jan 2013

ROFL, you trotted out "poutrage."

MineralMan

(146,025 posts)
20. OK. Do what you want.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:47 AM
Jan 2013

I'm listening on the radio. I wouldn't miss the second inauguration of this President. Do whatever you want.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(114,527 posts)
61. I'm not a believer, either.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:57 AM
Jan 2013

But I'm a member of a choir that performs a lot of religious music - some of the greatest music of the last thousand years was written for the Christian church. I'm not going to miss out on that magnificent music just because I don't necessarily accept the faith it represents.

"The Battle Hymn of the Republic" is a piece of music that has great historic significance, probably much greater than its religious overtones. It is especially important to the black community, whose Christian faith was instrumental in furthering the civil rights movement. I can enjoy listening to an excellent performance of this music without feeling like my own religious beliefs (or lack of them) are somehow being disrespected.

MineralMan

(146,025 posts)
137. Yup. I've been an atheist since 1965. But I've performed all manner
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:36 PM
Jan 2013

of religious music as a musician, from playing in orchestras to singing the Bass solos in Handel's Messiah several times. "For he is like a refiner's fire" is my favorite piece of vocal music to perform, although I no longer sing in public. I have zero problem with people's religious beliefs, and often attend concerts in churches when important musical works are being performed. I needn't believe to sing or play music.

Shallowness is a flaw. Much of our best art has a religious foundation. I don't have to believe to appreciate it.

 

duffyduff

(3,251 posts)
302. Judy Garland gave a rendition of the song in honor of JFK
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:23 PM
Jan 2013

back during her 1963 variety show. It was one of the greatest performances of all time.

JI7

(89,076 posts)
292. why ? non christians and atheists like myself enjoy listening to it also
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:45 PM
Jan 2013

should we be banned from hearing it ?

No Vested Interest

(5,150 posts)
247. NPR thought is was so beautiful
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:06 PM
Jan 2013

they closed oout their live broadcast with a reprise of The Battle Hymn performance.

Sekhmets Daughter

(7,515 posts)
25. Too bad, you missed an
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:48 AM
Jan 2013

incredible rendition and you're ignoring the significance of this hymn (and that uses the term lightly) to so very many African Americans.

I'm not a believer myself, but I have no problem with the fact their faith is what kept so many African Americans moving forward against incredible odds.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
29. Well ...
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:49 AM
Jan 2013

as others have noted, You missed quite a performance.

Can you not listen to a piece of art and not make it political?

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
33. +1. It's a performance, almost art.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:50 AM
Jan 2013

Raging on about the use of music with the mention of God is every bit as misguided as raging about a permformance that does not mention God.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
48. Exactly, tons of classical music
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:54 AM
Jan 2013

and opera would be thrown out if we looked at it the way the OP does. Has to ignore a lot of literature and art, too. Religion is part of history.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
55. I did not watch the Bush unauguration.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:56 AM
Jan 2013

That means you are dead wrong in your assumptions.

Shocking.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
104. Those with religious privilege are loathe to recognize that fact...
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:15 PM
Jan 2013
a secular ceremony representing all Americans


Yeah, sure. Let me know when that happens.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
99. The fact that it was chosen to be part of this was political...
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:13 PM
Jan 2013

There is more going on than just a song, and if you can't see it, you missed quite a performance.

thucythucy

(7,890 posts)
195. And might those be "the Grapes of Wrath"?
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:55 PM
Jan 2013

Just asking.

I think it's a beautiful song. Up there with "Ode to Joy" and "Mr. Tambourine Man."

Amazing performance as well.

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
36. many associate it with Lincoln
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:51 AM
Jan 2013

and the Emancipation Proclamation.
My Dad did ... we sang it at his funeral.

 

forestpath

(3,102 posts)
39. I feel the exact same way. Sick of this religious stuff - this shouldn't feel like a
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:52 AM
Jan 2013
church service.

Don't care how beautiful the voices are. Religion does not belong in government no matter who is president!
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
52. There is no functional utility to an inauguration ceremony
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:55 AM
Jan 2013

It is purely a civil ritual. If you do not appreciate the role of ritual in human society, then you are correct, there is nothing for you in this one.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
90. No, it doesn't exclude anyone
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:08 PM
Jan 2013

Hearing The Battle Hymn of the Republic does not exclude anyone but those who are themselves intolerant. Based on a tune that was popularized as "John Brown's Body" after a man who died in the course of his plan to free slaves, it is a product of an American folk music tradition.

It became an anthem symbolizing the struggle which resulted in a more inclusive society, and it was the anthem of those who triumphed in that struggle.

As a cultural product of its time, it does indeed include references to a specific aspect of culture.

And it is unfortunate that you have missed the president's call to expand the inclusiveness of our society today.

You are as intolerant as those who ban Mark Twain novels from high schools because of cultural expressions they find offensive.

Response to forestpath (Reply #134)

ProudToBeBlueInRhody

(16,399 posts)
194. You sound like Sarah Palin right now
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:44 PM
Jan 2013

Seriously, this is the shit she retorts with when someone presents the facts and history behind anything involving the Obama Administration.

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
314. Yeah, sure.
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:18 AM
Jan 2013

Someone is being berated for objecting to the jesusification of absolutely everything, which makes THEM sound like Sarah Palin?

My god the amount of irony in that should've broken the internet.

Half of the screeching Sarah Palin does is about how oppressed Christians are and how terrible it is that Jesus is being taken out of everything. Sound familiar?

Edited to add: I didn't even object to the religious songs or references. I object to people climbing up on their crosses yet AGAIN when they're reminded that being the majority religion doesn't make them the only religion.

ProudToBeBlueInRhody

(16,399 posts)
319. Sorry, sir....
Tue Jan 22, 2013, 12:14 PM
Jan 2013

....but you're the one who missed the "irony" of that. Not that it's really irony, but anyway....

Someone pointed out facts and history of the song and it's usage, and the poster's reply was to claim they were personally insulted when they weren't. Because you know, facts and history are evidence, proof, and the way you make your case, but to people without a leg to stand on, it's an "attack". That's a classic Sarah Palin tactic.

HTH.

Igel

(35,090 posts)
157. It excludes many.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:57 PM
Jan 2013

But some of those it excludes you don't want to see as excluded.

Many of those it excludes you don't think should be included, anyway.

Consider how "we the people" is often used. It's absolutely exclusionary. The people, versus those who would oppres the people. However, the oppressors are also humans, and therefore people; they're also Americans, and therefore part of the people that matter.

We are told that nobody's equal until we have equal love, and we claim the mantle of righteousness. Then we hear words of triumphant hate and condescension for our political and class enemies. The message is incoherent without the right set of definitions, yet deemed coherent by the faithful and perceived as undisputed only because iconoclasts have a short half-life in any party, especially among the zealous.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
127. Oh, he knows, he just doesn't care.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:28 PM
Jan 2013

HIS religious privilege is being preserved, thats all that matters.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
261. the role of ritual in human society
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:34 PM
Jan 2013

i know, right?

for lovers of the humanities aof all kinds it was spectacular

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
264. Having sung in various choirs...
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:43 PM
Jan 2013

Golly, I must have sung all kinds of religious music that has utterly nothing to do with anything I believe. I'm boycotting myself from now on.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
41. I think it's OK
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:53 AM
Jan 2013

The song has historical value and patriotic value. Earlier Americans were very religious and we don't have to pretend that never was. And the choir really rocked it! Beautiful as a piece of music.

panader0

(25,816 posts)
71. I mention them because they are a part of the inauguration
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:00 PM
Jan 2013

As they have always been. Does swearing in on the Bible offend you too? Is this the first inauguration to disturb you?
Or have you always turned them off?

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
164. Actually, they aren't.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:03 PM
Jan 2013

Or more to the point, they are not formally part of the inauguration. Washington added them on his personal preference, and everyone after him have been too terrified of the religious to remove them.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
162. Yes, those two should also be removed
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:01 PM
Jan 2013

So your argument is because religion is shoved into the ceremony in a variety of ways we should just shut up and be happy with it?

Ya know, them dark folks had their very own drinking fountains. They really shouldn't have complained about not being able to use all of them. It was no big deal.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
118. Martin Luther King Jr. must have really irritated you
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:22 PM
Jan 2013

...with his constant Biblical allusions.

"I may not get there with you, but I have seen the promised land", for example, was a reference to Moses not entering Canaan, and is, to you I suppose, offensive to Palestinians.

chillfactor

(7,557 posts)
205. I cannot find the words
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:15 PM
Jan 2013

to say what a disgusting individual I think you are......you are entitled to your own beliefs but you do not have the right to insult others and swear at them just because your brain is in stall mode....you remind me of a two-year old having a temper tantrum....

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
197. I think the OP was rude and counter productive to the argument
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:59 PM
Jan 2013

that the ceremony should be secular. Didnt look to me like the OP wanted a decent discussion on the subject only to be disruptive.

 

forestpath

(3,102 posts)
202. And I think much of the response was so ugly and insulting that no discussion would ever
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:07 PM
Jan 2013

be possible no matter what tone was taken.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
203. Exactly. That's why I thought it wasnt an appropriate time to bring
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:10 PM
Jan 2013

up the discussion if a decent discussion was the intent.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
210. Yes, that chap marching in the street around Selma was just so disruptive
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:23 PM
Jan 2013

He should have just backed off instead of being so confrontational.

...Or so said a whole lot of people at the time. But hey, it's got a long tradition with the women's rights movement, LGBT rights, and pretty much everyone else who tries to fix anything in our country.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
216. Huh? Are you trying to equate the OP with the Civil Rights struggle? Good grief.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:16 PM
Jan 2013

You have failed to indicate where you stand on the issue the OP brought up.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
253. You couldn't figure it out from the post?
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:19 PM
Jan 2013

I'm saying starting with a controversy over a bigoted preacher, then having the ceremony open with a prayer, contain many references to God, swearing on a Bible, include hymns, close with a prayer, to be followed with an official lunch that opens with a prayer, contains many references to God, and closes with a prayer might be a tad much for government ceremonies in a country that separates church from state.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
257. I absolutely agree with you. My only complaint was that I dont think it
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:26 PM
Jan 2013

is necessary to get in a fight about it today. I think it is counter productive.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
262. You get in a fight when it happens.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:38 PM
Jan 2013

When, exactly, do you think the fight should happen? Weeks later when people will respond with "oh, get over it"?

Now, I'm not saying anything big needs to be done. Just a "huh....that's a lot of God in a secular ceremony. Maybe we shouldn't do that."

Big will have to happen after people realize there's a problem.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
309. Relevance?
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:56 PM
Jan 2013

I really don't care if they were ministers or plumbers.

People told them to shut up and stop making a fuss. Just like you are here.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
201. Are you trying to be cute and support the OP? If so, do you support the
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:04 PM
Jan 2013

argument that the ceremony should be secular? or the intent to be disruptive?

I think the ceremony should be secular but believe the OP is counter productive to that argument.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
204. The ceremony should be secular
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:10 PM
Jan 2013

"Oh, it's not that bad, you should just let this one go" is the same argument used against every single civil rights movement. Such as women, blacks, LGBT, and so on.

In every case, there was a large number of supporters who insisted that now was not the right time, or that a particular affront was not a big deal. And then next one wasn't a big deal. And the next one, and the next one.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
217. I think you broke the record for most logical fallacies in one post. Go bother someone
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:19 PM
Jan 2013

else please.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
250. Just like those pesky gays getting upset about Rick Warren, right?
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:15 PM
Jan 2013

They really needed to stop pestering your beautiful mind, huh?

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
267. Because you think I'm talking about you?
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:46 PM
Jan 2013

This isn't about you. This is about our country. It's a slightly larger issue than you.

JI7

(89,076 posts)
280. Rick Warren is a Gay Basher who wants Gays to be killed, how the fuck is
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:38 PM
Jan 2013

that comparable to the OP ?

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
285. It's comparable because people told gays to shut up or it wasn't the time.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:56 PM
Jan 2013

Just like here.

Do I need to quote Republicans threatening physical harm to atheists to justify it to you, or do you think we might wanna actually follow the Constitution without keeping a score card?

JI7

(89,076 posts)
288. context Matters , complaining about someone who wants to kill gays is not the same to me
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:59 PM
Jan 2013

as complaining about some reference to God. just because both involve complaining.

Bush lied about War, Clinton lied about sex. to you it's the same since they both involve lies.

davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
218. There is a significant difference
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:25 PM
Jan 2013

In those instances, it really WAS bad. If I went to a public event around Christmas time and babbled about Santa and his reindeer, people would roll their eyes, laugh - and probably think I was drunk. I can't see a lot of people getting really upset about it though. Of course, there are some who find imagination itself offensive, even some that I hold in high regard.

What's the alternative? Strictly enforce that there be no reference to God or religion during the inauguration? Perhaps one day there will be a President that makes it a secular event by choice, but it should be by choice and not by law. No one is being forced to pray, believe in, or approve of anything. No one is being forced to take part in the event.

I'm not religious, I'm not a believer, I'm also not really concerned about it. I don't see it as being deliberately offensive against (nor intended to intimidate) those who are not religious, or not believers. I honestly don't understand what is upsetting or oppressive about it.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
242. It's just words?
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 04:51 PM
Jan 2013

Because people like me don't get fired for not "just going along" with the prayer at a company function. I dared to not lower my head.

While that is nowhere as bad as a lynching, it's still far more damaging than words. And nothing like your straw man about Yule-turned-Christmas.

Perhaps one day there will be a President that makes it a secular event by choice, but it should be by choice and not by law.

Would it be acceptable for the President to refer to the lazy "n-words" in the audience? Why not? It's his choice.

While I'm not militant enough to demand a law, there should be some acknowledgement that such activities are exclusionary.

I honestly don't understand what is upsetting or oppressive about it.

An enormous number of atheists live in areas that are not particularly religious. As such, being an atheist is not a big deal. Kinda like being latino in Los Angeles isn't gonna result in a lot of discrimination. But move that same latino to Mississippi, and things will be different.

JI7

(89,076 posts)
284. one is hate speech, just mentioning God in itself is not hateful, that was the problem with Rick
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:55 PM
Jan 2013

warren, not that he was christian or mentioned God but that he was an anti gay piece of shit who wanted to kill gays.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
287. Yet they're still just words.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:58 PM
Jan 2013

One doesn't have to keep a score card of outrage in order to consider a complaint valid or not.

We could actually follow our founding principles instead of saying "shut up because I haven't heard of enough discrimination against you".

JI7

(89,076 posts)
289. you are the one saying it's just words because you lost the argument
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:01 PM
Jan 2013

with your comparisons to gays blacks women being denied rights to someone making reference to God being equally offensive to Atheists.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
293. No, I'm referring to everyone else in this thread
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:46 PM
Jan 2013

who seems to feel that prayer is "just words".

to gays blacks women being denied rights to someone making reference to God being equally offensive to Atheists.

So, "shut up, woman!" would be offensive to you, but "shut up, atheist" is just fine?

My, how open-minded of you.

JI7

(89,076 posts)
294. depends on the context, if a woman used "shut up woman" against a friend
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:50 PM
Jan 2013

of hers in a joking way i wouldn't care.

but not sure what reference to God has to do with "shut up atheist" or "shut up woman". your arguments are getting lame it's like saying the inauguration is anti woman because the person being inauguration is a man.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
295. So you're unable to read anything else in this thread?
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:13 PM
Jan 2013

There's tons of posts in this thread, including several by you, which boil down to "shut up, Atheist".

it's like saying the inauguration is anti woman because the person being inauguration is a man.

No, the equivalent would be saying "thank God we're inaugurating a man instead of a woman".

(And yes, I went for a two-fer there)

JI7

(89,076 posts)
298. equivalent to what ? how about the Poet saying Namaste ?
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:15 PM
Jan 2013

did you get offended at that ?

should christians,muslims, jews, feel offended at that ?

davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
304. I'm an agnostic from northern Maine
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:32 PM
Jan 2013

When I was growing up, most of my neighbors were very strict baptists - the sort that didn't believe in dancing. I was raised Catholic myself - and there was constantly some kind of argument going on between baptists and Catholics. Being a boy, I didn't understand it terribly well. As I got older I realized that nearly every branch of Christianity is closed minded, judgmental, ignorant. I became a very angry atheist at the age of 14 and was frequently getting into shouting matches with my Father about it. I felt that I had been brainwashed, forced to go to a church and become a member of a cult of idiots and sheep. I was young, I was arrogant, I was foolish. The intention of my parents was the important thing - they brought me up Catholic because they felt it was a good way to instill moral values, to make me someone honest and good.

As I get older, I continue to have a strong prejudice against religion and the religious. Yet I realize that bias for what it is - my own ignorance, my own judgment, my own mind closing up. There really isn't anything wrong with someone displaying faith in public, provided they aren't using it as a means to intimidate or oppress another group, which in this case I don't think they were.

It's perfectly fine, even perhaps, righteous, to be intolerant of intolerance. Yet there is such a thing as an innocent display of faith, tradition. I may think of it as nonsense, but it's not my faith. So long as no one tries to ram it down my throat I'm fine with it. This is why I listen to Jehovah's Witnesses when they knock on my door. I completely disagree with most of what they say, but there's no harm in being polite and listening.

Perhaps I'm odd in that regard. I can remember very clearly a Catholic Priest telling me I would go to hell, or that the devil was having a "hayday with me" because I began to question my faith. I remember Baptists who lectured me on sin - and the millions of things that were sins, I remember them explaining to me that I'd go to hell if I didn't accept Christ as my lord and Savior. It sure made me angry - and others have even more right to be angry, but not necessarily at all religion and at anyone who practices it.

No, live and let live is generally my philosophy. I just don't see a point in getting angry about religious traditions in an inaugural ceremony, it's a tradition that's much older than our Country and it's generally innocent.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
310. And few passing mentions would get a similar response from me.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:02 PM
Jan 2013

But we're talking about an official ceremony that:
started with a prayer
contained an oath with a prayer tacked on to the end
contained a speech with several references to God
contained hymns
closed with a prayer

which was then followed by an official lunch that:
started with a prayer
contained lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of references to God in speeches
ended with a prayer

That's an awful lot of religion in official ceremonies for a country that's supposed to separate church and state.

And my goal isn't to ban God from such ceremonies, but to ask: "do we need to add this much God to this?"

davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
311. I agree in principle
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:15 PM
Jan 2013

I just can't understand getting really upset about it.

Do we need that much God? No, we don't need it all really, I just don't think that it's a big deal in this particular case.

janx

(24,128 posts)
53. Please look up the history of the Battle Hymn of the Republic.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:55 AM
Jan 2013

You might then understand why it is especially important at this inauguration.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
72. It is a metaphor
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:01 PM
Jan 2013

so it is not even specifically religious. It ties the end of the Civil War to the judgment at the second coming as a metaphor, that's meant to say something (and to people in the 1860s).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_Hymn_of_the_Republic

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
75. The melody originally supplied a song celebrating the life and death
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:02 PM
Jan 2013

of America's first terrorist (aka "freedom fighter&quot John Brown in the song "John Brown's Body" (sung by Union soldiers on the march through the South).

Unless you're a Brit, in which case, America's first terrorist was probably George Washington (or, arguably, Crispus Attucks

janx

(24,128 posts)
125. Yes indeed. And interestingly, there were TWO John Browns.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:26 PM
Jan 2013

The "terrorist" abolitionist and another John Brown, whom the song was originally about.

Howe would have assumed that the John Brown of the song was the famous abolitionist. But the song belonged to a young Scotsman in the Massachusetts Volunteer Militia who shared Brown's name.

The Scotsman was well aware of John Brown the abolitionist. Having the same name made him a prime target for many good-natured jokes. As the soldiers marched, they would hammer out, in folk-song fashion, the tune that Julia Ward Howe would later hear. Lines like "His Soul's Marching On" were meant to tease the Scotsman. But as the catchy verse traveled to other units, it was known only as a song about the John Brown who was captured at Harpers Ferry. New verses were constantly added:


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/brown/sfeature/song.html

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
131. Your post is one reason my long-running love (hate) affair with DU continues
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:30 PM
Jan 2013

so passionately unabated. That is simply an amazing story!

Speaking of Scotsman and music, allow me one of my fav all-time jokes:

Q: What's the difference between Mick Jagger and a Scotsman?

A: Mick Jagger says "Hey, you, get off of my cloud" and a Scotsman says, "Hey, McCloud, get off of my ewe."

I'm Scotch-Irish so am allowed the ethnic-joke exemption for that one

1monster

(11,012 posts)
170. Interesting story. Thanks for posting. (In elementary school we were taught that the
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:11 PM
Jan 2013

lyrics were

John Brown's body has a cold upon its chest.
John Brown's body has a cold upon its chest.
John Brown's body has a cold upon its chest.
So they rubbed it with vaporizing oil!

Oye!

janx

(24,128 posts)
209. Maybe your teachers didn't want to get graphic...
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:18 PM
Jan 2013

But history is magnificent, isn't it? The Battle Hymn of the Republic went from a taunting of that poor Massachusetts Scotsman and a song about a famous abolitionist to the Battle Hymn that we know today--one that symbolizes the Emancipation Proclamation and the preservation of the Union.



It's just beautiful.

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
272. The line "He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored" always
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:04 PM
Jan 2013

sends shivers down my spine for its imagery and poetics. Can almost see the Union Army of the Potomac marching to it.

1monster

(11,012 posts)
190. If you are offended, it is your right to turn it off and I do not fault you for that at all. However
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:40 PM
Jan 2013

as a non-Christian, I find your outrage as off-putting as evangelicals who keep insisting that everyone believe as they do.

There are many reasons and ways that people come to renoucne religion of some or all kinds. Often those reasons/ways are very painful. It can take time to work through the issues that one has with belief and non-belief. And maybe you are still working through whatever issues you may have. I hope that eventually you will learn to make peace with the world you live in and learn to choose your battles.

PS, during the Bush years, The Battle Hymn of the Republic was used (in parody) quite often. One example:

Battle Hymn of the Republicans

Mine Eyes have seen the bungling of that stumbling moron Bush;
He has blathered all the drivel that the neo-cons can push;
He has lost sight of all reason 'cause his head is up his tush;
The Doofus marches on.

I have heard him butcher syntax like a kindergarten fool;
There is warranted suspicion that he never went to school;
Should we fault him for the policies -- or is he just their tool?
The lies keep piling on.

Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!
Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!
Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!
His wreckage will live on.

I have seen him cut the taxes of the billionaires' lone heir;
As he spends another zillion on an aircraft carrier;
Let the smokestacks keep polluting -- do we really need clean air?
The surplus is now gone.

Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!
Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw ! Ya'!
Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!
Your safety net is gone!

Now he's got a mighty hankerin' to bomb a prostrate state;
Though the whole world knows its crazy -- and the U.N. says to wait;
When he doesn't have the evidence, "We must prevaricate."
Diplomacy is done!

Oh, a trumped-up war is excellent; we have no moral bounds;
Should the reasons be disputed, we'll just make up other grounds;
Enraging several billions -- to his brainlessness redounds;
The Doofus marches on!

Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!
Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!
Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!

THIS...DOO...FUS...MAR...CHES...ON

(with apologies to the lyricist -- I don't know who to credit)



Carolina

(6,960 posts)
60. whatever your thoughts about the
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:57 AM
Jan 2013

hymn or its place at such an event, you missed an exquisite performance by a diverse choir... one that mirrored the America that voted for the president and one composed of our fellow citizens endowed with beautiful voices!

Truly, it was your loss.

Walk away

(9,494 posts)
84. That's pretty nasty. You think Dr. King's christianity is what made him great?
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:05 PM
Jan 2013

Then he could have just stayed in his church and preached sermons and lived a long happy life.

 

MotherPetrie

(3,145 posts)
111. It never ceases to amaze me how often DUer's put extra words in my mouth
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:18 PM
Jan 2013

Whenever I don't follow a specific party line

NYC Liberal

(20,110 posts)
167. But...you're saying I don't believe in myself?!
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:07 PM
Jan 2013


Actually I think there's a lot of great religious music. Just because I don't believe in God doesn't mean I can't appreciate good music.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
176. Some poets say you are a song & you don't have to believe in music to hear it.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:24 PM
Jan 2013

That's in Rilke's Sonnets to Orpheus, here: http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/the-sonnets-to-orpheus-book-2-xiii/

I especially like the closing lines of that poem.

Walk away

(9,494 posts)
78. When Chuck Schumer introduced it I thought that was weird. It's a Jesus song...
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:03 PM
Jan 2013

it's not even a generic "Lord God" song so we Atheists aren't the only ones left out.

a la izquierda

(11,774 posts)
80. Oy vey.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:04 PM
Jan 2013

Comments like this are why I believe a lot of atheists are as insufferable as a lot of evangelical Christians. Different coin, same intolerance of the other.



And, oh yes, I said a lot. Not all, or many. Feel free to flame away.

ForgoTheConsequence

(4,842 posts)
86. You showed them.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:06 PM
Jan 2013

Luckily I'm capable of putting things into their correct context and was able to enjoy it. I'm sure some would prefer using their white privilege to white wash that part of history.

LiberalElite

(14,691 posts)
88. I hit the mute too -
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:07 PM
Jan 2013

I left the RC church decades ago and I don't believe in organized religion. Enough with the religion already.

Raine

(30,449 posts)
93. Too bad you missed out, it's a beautiful song and it was done beautifully. A shame that you're so
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:10 PM
Jan 2013

intolerant.

WolverineDG

(22,298 posts)
95. Let's see
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:11 PM
Jan 2013

how about appreciating the historical & cultural significance of this hymn?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_Hymn_of_the_Republic#Cultural_Influences

The lyrics of "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" appear in Martin Luther King, Jr.'s sermons and speeches, most notably in his speech "How Long, Not Long" from the steps of the Alabama State Capitol building on March 25, 1965 after the 3rd Selma March, and in his final sermon "I've Been to the Mountaintop", delivered in Memphis, Tennessee on the evening of April 3, 1968, the night before his assassination. In fact, the latter sermon, King's last public words, ends with the first lyrics of the "Battle Hymn", "Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord."

Since this is MLK's actual birthday, I find the inclusion of this hymn to be especially significant.

deutsey

(20,166 posts)
97. They're really playing up the Emancipation Proclamation/MLK/African American President synergy
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:11 PM
Jan 2013

It made sense to have it part of that, imo.

Having said that, however, I think Twain's version of the song may have been even more appropriate:

Mine eyes have seen the orgy of the launching of the Sword;
He is searching out the hoardings where the stranger's wealth is stored;
He hath loosed his fateful lightnings, and with woe and death has scored;
His lust is marching on.

I have seen him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps;
They have builded him an altar in the Eastern dews and damps;
I have read his doomful mission by the dim and flaring lamps—
His night is marching on.

I have read his bandit gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:
"As ye deal with my pretensions, so with you my wrath shall deal;
Let the faithless son of Freedom crush the patriot with his heel;
Lo, Greed is marching on!"

We have legalized the strumpet and are guarding her retreat;*
Greed is seeking out commercial souls before his judgement seat;
O, be swift, ye clods, to answer him! be jubilant my feet!
Our god is marching on!

In a sordid slime harmonious Greed was born in yonder ditch,
With a longing in his bosom—and for others' goods an itch.
As Christ died to make men holy, let men die to make us rich—
Our god is marching on.

* NOTE: In Manila the Government has placed a certain industry under the protection of our flag. (M.T.)

Puglover

(16,380 posts)
98. As you should have!
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:11 PM
Jan 2013

Because of course the inauguration is all about you and your sensibilities. BTW not a christian here and somehow I made it through the song. Man, talk about not seeing the forest through the trees.

LiberalElite

(14,691 posts)
113. Yeah boy people sure are touchy
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:20 PM
Jan 2013

And here i'm referring to all who liked the inclusion a performance of Battle Hymn of the Republic, but are getting their panties in a wad because some didn't like it.

AngryOldDem

(14,060 posts)
103. One in every crowd.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:15 PM
Jan 2013

Historical context must have gone right over your head.

You missed a hell of a performance, though.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
117. The President is a Christian.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:22 PM
Jan 2013

Sorry that bothers you. He leans on his faith for many things in his life. It is fully within his rights to publicly display his faith. Even at the inauguration.

 

mr blur

(7,753 posts)
222. And yet your Constitution is not a Christian document. Quite the reverse as I understand it.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 04:10 PM
Jan 2013

Do you feel that it is only there to serve Christians, as many here seem to do?

Christian privilege, such a fine thing, isn't it? For the believers, anyway.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
224. Not sure what that has to do with anything stated.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 04:17 PM
Jan 2013

What does that have to do with prayer or mentions of faith at the inauguration? It is extremely clear that this type of display is constitutional. The constitution agrees, the court agrees, Obama agrees.....

geomon666

(7,512 posts)
120. As an atheist
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:23 PM
Jan 2013

I watched every bit of it. I can appreciate religious music and art without belittling the beliefs behind it.

Jeff In Milwaukee

(13,992 posts)
191. On this board, you could have a fulltime job...
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:40 PM
Jan 2013

educating other so-called progressives on the ability to tolerate other peoples' belief systems.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
126. Now the god damn Benidiction
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:27 PM
Jan 2013

"With the blessing of your blessing ... we pray for your blessing" for abundance "we pray for your blessing, bless all of us .. that we may become a blessing ... "

OFCS, let's get back to reality!!

Hamlette

(15,375 posts)
132. it is all metaphor and even many "religious" people see it that way
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:31 PM
Jan 2013

As a 3rd generation godless commie pinko my family taught that it is all a beautiful myth which teaches lessons about us, not unlike the Greek and Roman myths. And the song is beautiful, unlike the pledge and our money which contain more egregious violations of the idea we are secular.

Ignore the bad, appreciate the good.

union_maid

(3,502 posts)
136. Missed a beautiful rendition, then
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:34 PM
Jan 2013

And those young people singing it looked like their smiles were genuine. I'm not a bit religious, but it made me tear up.

bklyncowgirl

(7,960 posts)
138. You know, every once in a while I wonder if I should declare myself an athiest.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:37 PM
Jan 2013

Then I listen to a self-proclaimed atheist snootily decry a beautiful musical performance of a hymn with great historical import for this country, just to make her own intolerant point about religion in the public sphere and I decide that this is a club that I do not want to join.



jeff47

(26,549 posts)
206. So could you please list what insults are sufficient to mention?
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:15 PM
Jan 2013

Do we need to wait for a new inquisition for your permission to be annoyed?

"Oh, it's not that bad. You should let it go" has been the refrain against women, blacks, LGBT and every other civil rights movement. Shortly followed with "I'm a supporter, but your absolutism is driving me away!", as you state here.

bklyncowgirl

(7,960 posts)
229. People expressing their 1st amendment right to religious expression is not an occasion for outrage
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 04:27 PM
Jan 2013

There's a big difference between active discrimination such as that experienced by the groups you referenced and--OH THE HORROR--having to listen to religious sentiments that most of your fellow citizens hold sacred but that you do not share.

I dislike intolerence whether it comes from the left or the right but you have every right to be annoyed if you like just as I have every right to be annoyed at your annoyance.

Let's face it, this is the Internet, more particularly this is DU, we stand by our absolute right to be pissed off and outraged at something!

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
237. Yes, it's only people talking, it's not like 70% of the public wouldn't vote for an atheist
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 04:40 PM
Jan 2013

for President. Nah, no actions involved other than moving lips.

Oh wait.

(Polling varies: "Would you vote for an otherwise-fully-qualified person for President if he was an atheist?" gets "yes" from in the 30s to around 50% depending on the poll. However, it's always behind other groups such as "gay" or "muslim". "Just words" have consequences)

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
139. You did the right thing.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:39 PM
Jan 2013

Listening to that song has been know to transform even the most devout atheists into fundamentalist Christians.

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
145. *shrug*
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:44 PM
Jan 2013

To me, it's a Union Civil War song. As a Daughter of a Union Veteran, I love the crap out of that tune.

I'm also an atheist.

To each his own.

union_maid

(3,502 posts)
151. We gonna get rid of all religious music?
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:48 PM
Jan 2013

The church was a major patron of the arts in Europe. Do we really want those Old Masters in publicly funded museums? Then there's Gospel. You don't have to believe anything in particular to just feel inspired by that. Life is not all black and white.

Laochtine

(394 posts)
160. As an atheist
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:00 PM
Jan 2013

I know christians need their binky, so as long as they don't shoot up the place I forgive the their trespasses on me

 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
161. OMG, so many posts from people who must have just arrived in the U.S.! Welcome, immigrants!
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:01 PM
Jan 2013

*sarcasm*

Like they've never seen a Presidential Inauguration before.

Just one more lame attempt to criticize Obama.

obietiger

(500 posts)
168. Fox News must agree with you
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:08 PM
Jan 2013

I turned over to their channel as the song was ending to see if they would say something nice about it. There was only laughter being broadcast.

lynne

(3,118 posts)
171. This thread is rather ironic coming on MLK Day -
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:12 PM
Jan 2013

- when we're to join together, put aside difference, and accept each other for the persons that we are.

Guess King should have specifically referenced music choices.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
172. Imagine the full metal jacket hissy fit that would have been pitched
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:13 PM
Jan 2013

If Imagine were performed at the inauguration.

No hell below us
Above us only sky

 

CalFresh

(99 posts)
174. Great song for today.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:18 PM
Jan 2013

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in his bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.


I love it!

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
175. Prefer "Dixie" Do You?
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:22 PM
Jan 2013

Dixie is from the same time period, and doesn't use religious symbolism.

I guess Dixie is a much more inclusionary song.

Silent3

(14,864 posts)
180. What a weird and ridiculous retort.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:27 PM
Jan 2013

How does that even get at the point the OP is making, whether you agree with the OP or not?

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
181. It's not religious, so it must be more inclusionary
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:30 PM
Jan 2013

The Battle Hymn of the Republic - as was John Brown's Body - is a retort to Dixie, in context.

Silent3

(14,864 posts)
186. So the idea of dropping both religious and racist at the same time...
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:35 PM
Jan 2013

...is too much for you to handle?

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
193. Yeah, we can airbrush all of history
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:42 PM
Jan 2013

The idea of it being a civil anthem with religious symbolism at the same time is clearly too much for some to handle.

The plea "God shed his grace on thee" in America The Beautiful is fraught with a Protestant Christian doctrine.

The song makes racist irredentist Confederates squirm, and that's good enough for me.

Silent3

(14,864 posts)
219. Maybe if it was a rare religious touch...
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:37 PM
Jan 2013

...and not surrounded by religious invocations and swearing to God, swearing on top of Bibles, visiting churches. As it is, however, it's one more straw on the camel's back.

But hey, let's not airbrush any of that away. It's convenient when tradition and history favors those who hold a privileged position.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
239. "those who hold a privileged position"
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 04:45 PM
Jan 2013

Well, I don't know who you are talking about, as I have no religious affiliation at all, and you are denigrating a person who was an abolitionist, a pacifist, and a suffragette.

The lyrics were written by someone who spent the rest of her life fighting for the right to vote - a privilege you have always had.

Silent3

(14,864 posts)
248. There's more than one kind of privilege...
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:08 PM
Jan 2013

...and always people who don't enjoy those privileges who will oddly defend others privilege anyway.

But if that one particular song is so damned important, its sentiment simply cannot be tapped without its built-in religious trappings, how about we keep that one song and trash all the other religious claptrap?

And short of that, how about at least showing a bit of fucking understanding for someone like the OP who might have reached their limit for looking the other way when separation of church and state is blithely ignored at the point of that one song instead of somewhere else your esteemed self would approve of?

ProudToBeBlueInRhody

(16,399 posts)
196. On MLK day....
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:56 PM
Jan 2013

....many of the songs sung by those who marched on Selma and DC were hymns....Amazing Grace, Swing Low, Sweet Chariot....

The OP's going to have to get over it fast, because their complaints on THIS DAY are inappropriate. Period.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
208. Yeah, it's too soon. We need to wait to do anything.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:18 PM