General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOK. I have serious reservations about doing this, but I'm going to come out here on DU.
Last edited Thu Jan 3, 2013, 06:00 PM - Edit history (1)
I was raped.
It happened when I was in the Navy. A group of three or four threw a blanket over me pinned me down and used a mop handle. I never saw my attackers, had no idea who they were, but I got to spend the rest of my time at sea wondering if every face I saw on that ship was one of them.
No, I did not report it; it was 1972, and we were in combat. Reporting it would have probably made my life a thousand times worse.
It was more than twenty years before I told anybody.
ETA: While I was seeking treatment through the VA, one psychiatrist I saw said in his report that that I was probably fabricating, or at least embellishing the story because the experience of being anally raped had not made me gay. I was shocked, but not nearly as shocked as the director of that facility when I showed her the report.
So, that is the kind of stuff you have to deal with.
mzmolly
(50,992 posts)Thank you for your courage in sharing your personal story.
I wish you could seek justice, somehow.
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)The Navy gave me a 10% disability, small consolation but at least I never have to worry about getting healthcare.
Probably not a day goes by that I don't wonder what became of them...karma and all.
wake.up.america
(3,334 posts)with more like you.
peacebird
(14,195 posts):hugs:
handmade34
(22,756 posts)elleng
(130,895 posts)a kennedy
(29,655 posts)I'm so sorry.....D*mn......
loyalkydem
(1,678 posts)no_hypocrisy
(46,094 posts)I can't imagine what hell you've endured.
But you came to the right place. We all want you to heal and find the strength to survive and to enjoy life.
(((((HUG))))
Helen Reddy
(998 posts)Nothing I could say you haven't heard before so....a hug.
Happyhippychick
(8,379 posts)hedgehog
(36,286 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)and i have tears....
that is beyond horrible. not coming out is especially hard for men, but really, women are in the same place. i am always understanding of not reporting for the reason you say.
i was thinking the same, without knowing who, and stuck on the ship, knowing it was three or four men you were interacting with, in such a small space.
i hope you have been able to find a way to heal, or have its place in life that it does not mess with you today.
just ugly.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)MynameisBlarney
(2,979 posts)I'm so sorry.
dawg
(10,624 posts)I hope that telling us about your experience will help you with your healing process.
derby378
(30,252 posts)The ordeal of not knowing which shipmates did this to you must have been unbearable at times.
I wish I could reach through the screen and give you a big and a cup of hot chocolate.
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)With three stripes on my arm, about the only people I outranked hadn't finished boot camp yet so I wouldn't have been able to do much anyway. It was 1972, and male rape simply didn't happen. And if it did, well you've heard all the stereotypes about sailors so it was more of a "hazing".
I got out as soon as I could.
Jennicut
(25,415 posts)It is almost bigger for men because men are not supposed to show emotion, at least from some people's views. I was molested as a girl, when I was 13. It was by a family friend. It took me a long time to tell people. I finally told my brother in my twenties. You are incredibly brave to share that with us.
Chellee
(2,096 posts)ismnotwasm
(41,976 posts)Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)RainDog
(28,784 posts)and I hope that those who did it go to sleep every night thinking of how shameful they were, and fearing someone may do the same to someone they love.
mfcorey1
(11,001 posts)this time is courageous. I am sorry this happened to you.
closeupready
(29,503 posts).
Arctic Dave
(13,812 posts)HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Thanks for your brave honesty MP.
JustAnotherGen
(31,818 posts)A bunch of hugs and light coming your way.
GentryDixon
(2,950 posts)My niece was raped many years ago. I sat in the police station with her while she gave her statement to the detective. He did not want me in the room, she did, so I stayed. I turned my back to them & just listened to the horror she was subjected to. They arrested the guy & he served time.
Many years later my Mom was in the hospital. My niece & had gone down to the coffee shop & sat at the counter. The man who sat next to her was her rapist. He did not recognize her, she did him. We got out of there fast.
The long lasting trauma cannot be minimized. For a long time after the rape every dark haired male I saw brought it all back. And at that time I only knew what he looked like by the statement she gave to the detective. I cannot imagine what you have lived with. My deepest sympathy.
Chorophyll
(5,179 posts)But thank you for sharing your story. The only people who should have serious reservations about talking about rape are the ones who perpetrate it.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)sandyshoes17
(657 posts)Im glad you said it. I do believe that talking about it will help. It's a step towards moving past it. Whatever it may bring, you are ready to face it. And
my heart goes out to you
easttexaslefty
(1,554 posts)MadrasT
(7,237 posts)DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)Sharing that just means some of your friends are willing to carry some of the weight of the burden. I hope it empowers you to open up.
And I'm really sorry.
southernyankeebelle
(11,304 posts)if you had reported it. I bet you can relate what happens when women feel no one care when they are raped. Have you been able to work through that mess?
LongTomH
(8,636 posts)I've heard that male-male rape takes place in the military, much more often than people would guess, and that it's almost never reported.
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)If you factor in the prison population, heterosexual male-male rape is quite possibly more common than male-female rape.
I would guess that even today most men would not report a sexual assault.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)rapists don't just rape one person and then stop.
It is good that you're talking about it. I know it will go a long way towards healing you. I was sexually molested when I was 6 years old. I finally talked about it when I was 40 years old, and I wish I had talked about it much sooner because it really helped to say the words. I told everyone in my family as well as my teenage son.
Yet it has taken me until today to finally say that I was raped by a pedophile. What else could he have been?
dkf
(37,305 posts)I do not understand what drives people to do such things. When we talk about evil surely this must be in the realm of what is envisioned.
I am so sorry for what you went through. The pure senselessness of it must have been such a burden.
Hugs...
Bigmack
(8,020 posts)..but you are not alone. A lot of women.. and some men... have had the same horrible experience.
The numbers these days are truly staggering. One in three military women has been sexually assaulted, compared to one in six civilian women, according to Defense. A servicewoman was nearly 180 times more likely to have become a victim of military sexual assault (MSA) in the past year than to have died while deployed during the last 11 years of combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. 52 assaults a day. I just watched "The Invisible War", which deals with this topic. It's excellent... and chilling.
Off topic, but oddly NOT off topic.... If we do this kind of thing to our own sisters-in-arms, what does it say about not just our military, but about our whole culture? Maybe we can't afford to be an Empire with US troops all over the world doing god-knows-what. Maybe we can't afford it economically.... or morally.
deafskeptic
(463 posts)I remember my mother claiming that a female officer in the navy was in fact a prostitute and that she deserved to get gang raped when a scandal broke out in the 80s I was horrified at my mother's words. Her lack of empathy appalled me.
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)But it is also very important that everyone know what is happening to women. I don't think a lot has changed in the Navy since 1972 with regard to the horror of rape. Unfortunately, the victims all too often suffer in silence because of the very reasons you cite. We need more women to come out like you just did. There is strength in numbers.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)This kind of shit has to stop.
sheshe2
(83,751 posts)Amaril
(1,267 posts)So sorry for what was done to you. No one should ever have to endure being tortured and terrorized like that.
And thank you for sharing your story with us. That couldn't have been easy, but we're all here for you.
siligut
(12,272 posts)This group probably made a habit of it, to intimidate and control others. To prevent others from creating a group that was stronger by causing suspicion that couldn't be spoken of so it just caused people to keep to themselves. So sorry, glad you can speak about it now.
intaglio
(8,170 posts)You have remained a functional human and humane person.
You won
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)You aren't alone. I understand everything you said. Feeling eyes watching you. Watching everyone else. Being on guard 24/7 from that point forward. Not telling anyone for years. I didn't either. Many of us don't, both women and men. We think we're strong enough and we usually are. Breaking the silence takes strength, too, and it helps others. Now you've done that here as well as in your real life. We're stronger together with you than we were without you. Thank you.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)dembotoz
(16,802 posts)thank you for trusting du as a safe place to come out with this.
Festivito
(13,452 posts)The speech divides the pain among all of us and we are many.
It also diminishes the thoughts that do not go away, and does so until they are small.
I wish you well, peace and ever increasing times of unfettered happiness.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)I'm so sorry such a terrible thing happened to you.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)I hope the perpetrators have horrible lives, like they deserve.
I also want to commend you for telling your story. That isn't easy, whether you're a man or a woman (you don't say) and it takes a lot of courage - not only to put words to your ordeal, but also because of the fear of the reaction, as you point out in your headline. Thank you.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)for having the guts to say this. Rape is bad enough, but in the Military, these guys were the very definition of "domestic enemies."
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)Incredible. Absolutely terrifying. And then the humiliation of denial.
I have said it in the gun threads, and the same applies here, these people have also been traumatized in their lives. They just passed it on to you. And the therapists were also in denial about their own life experiences.
I'm glad you have this DU family to share with. As large a community as we are, it's safe here.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)And how fucking stupid that psychiatrist was. Thanks for your service as well!
Tell your story man!!! The type of stuff you went through is probably not uncommon and
people need to know they are not alone when they go through it!!
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)it's amazing what some so-called "helping professionals" say to traumatized people.
annatee33
(30 posts)Thank you for your service, thank you for your bravery in service and now. I would believe now may be a bit more difficult. Hope you have a good support system at home, but if not you must be able to feel that love and support from here.
--All the best to you,
Anna
riqster
(13,986 posts)Thank you.
LiberalLoner
(9,761 posts)ReRe
(10,597 posts)...it is good to get it out. Otherwise it eats away at you inside. Hope that you have been able to put this aside and live your life to it's fullest. God Bless...thank you for serving your country, and I'm fairly sure those bums have had their come-up pin's by now.
LiberalEsto
(22,845 posts)You've made so much progress over years that you've become able to post about it on DU. That is something to take a measure of pride in.
Ilsa
(61,695 posts)your courage. I hope time has helped, at least some. It helped me, but good counseling helped the most.
Peace.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Someone at random if I couldn't find the actual culprits.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Not sure what else to say, except: I'm glad you had the courage to share this story and we'll always be here for you.
Butterbean
(1,014 posts)MFM008
(19,808 posts)I was to. Some people dont realize you can be raped by objects other than the "usual".
It happened when I was 7 by the 18 year old babysitter who lived next door.
As an adult your memories of this and the after math are so clear .
I just remember thinking, can i go and have the snack you promised? Sorry about you, me and all others that suffered.
FedUpWithIt All
(4,442 posts)I'm sorry for what you went through. Thank you for your openness.
LisaLynne
(14,554 posts)abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)graywarrior
(59,440 posts)Wish I could give you a hug.
secondwind
(16,903 posts)I hope you have put this incident in its proper "box" and can enjoy life, love and everything good that there is out there.......... going forward.
FedUpWithIt All
(4,442 posts)I believe sickness propagates in the dark and hidden places of society. Exposure disinfects. We HAVE to talk about these things.
Thank you for being courageous enough to talk about your experience. The more we are all aware of the damage that people do the more the good amongst us will reject and seek change.
I am sorry you had to endure what you did. And i'm sorry for the ignorance of those who hurt you further, after the fact.
wryter2000
(46,039 posts)You were probably right not to report the rape at the time. You would have become the issue, not the crime.
Thanks for telling us. I hope it helped you.
diphthong
(21 posts)n/t
sibelian
(7,804 posts)This sounds utterly horrible, and to hold onto that knowledge for so long... it can take years and years for the knots tied in your soul by a single act of abuse to unravel. I hope you are as OK as you can be.
lillypaddle
(9,580 posts)in telling your story. How horrendous for you. My heart goes out to you.
City Lights
(25,171 posts)Peace to you from me.
vlyons
(10,252 posts)such humiliation and physical pain for so long. You're lucky to be alive because anal rape with a mop handle could have punctured/ruptured your colon, prostate, and god knows what else. THANK YOU for sharing your story. I hope you know that rape does not demean your worth, it demeans your attackers.
titanicdave
(429 posts)you have my deepest sympathy and support.......God Bless You
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)progressoid
(49,988 posts)Politicub
(12,165 posts)JohnnyLib2
(11,211 posts)And a big pat on the back to you for this post and for your endurance all these years.
southern_belle
(1,647 posts)that
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)The fact that it was a work place situation in a confined environment where you couldn't just leave seems to make the horror all that much worse. That you had no one to report the well I am going to call it attempted murder because the way the attack was carried out could have very well killed you. Then when you seek help the person that is entrusted to do that does the exact opposite. I wish I could say things have gotten better, but I don't see it so I am not going to say it. I really wish there were fewer people that have experienced these kinds of things in their life. But, it is a very real part of our culture and it seems that legislators are asleep at the wheel on this issue.
LisaLynne
(14,554 posts)And I am sorry that so many people are so incredibly ignorant.
benld74
(9,904 posts)what our Navy didnt do for you and what your comrade in arms got away with. Karma for them will be interesting.
caseymoz
(5,763 posts)They used to talk about a hazing or form inter-enlisted discipline called "getting greased," where-- if you would do something to piss your shipmates off-- they would hold you down and anally rape you with a grease-gun, pumping grease into you anus.
I never went to the fleet, I got medical discharged before my training was complete. However, it seemed that everybody knew about this, and everybody thought it was funny and justified in some cases. I'm pretty certain it was practiced.
So, I know the mop handle had to do in a pinch. I'm sorry you went through that, man. As bad as it was for the guys, I had a feeling the Women in the Navy had it worse. These are guys who consider rape either light entertainment of a justifiable as vengeance or discipline.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)He was assaulted on his first tour when he crossed the equator with a grease gun.
He told me one night when he was drunk as a funny story, but the look in his eyes held no amusement, only pain.
I really had no words, so I packed another bowl and handed him another beer.
caseymoz
(5,763 posts)That was what I was told. You see, for sailors, rape is supposed to be sport. A bonding experience.
However, since I never went to the fleet-- to my relief-- I only heard from guys who had buddies who went through it. I don't think anybody I talked to on shore ever told me first hand. I never doubted the practice, though.
rivegauche
(601 posts)I hope you have managed to recover from this, what happened to you is absolutely vile.
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)freckleface
(57 posts)I am so truly sorry. (((( ))))
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)OneGrassRoot
(22,920 posts)no words, just a
Squinch
(50,949 posts)Hayabusa
(2,135 posts)That people actually believed this, and still believe it to this day. I mean, what the hell?
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I feel terrible for you, but thank you for sharing your story and I hope that you find peace and justice someday.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)and sorry that the system let you down afterwards.
October
(3,363 posts)I am so sorry this happened to you, and I cannot begin to imagine everything you went through afterwards.
Horrifying!
Wishing you peace.
spanone
(135,830 posts)brave.
alp227
(32,020 posts)": While I was seeking treatment through the VA, one psychiatrist I saw said in his report that that I was probably fabricating, or at least embellishing the story because the experience of being anally raped had not made me gay."
sounds like something the Fox Boobs psychiatrist KEITH ABLOW(hard) would say, in fact the quack wants to run for John Kerry's seat.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014355477
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)The idea that an experience like that would turn someone from hetero to homosexual is silly on its face.
Mdterp01
(144 posts)I admire your courage in sharing your story. Saying I'm sorry isn't nearly enough but not sure what else to say. I can't imagine continuing with your duties knowing that there were other men you served with who could've been the ones who raped you; guys who may have sat with you to eat and smiled in your face knowing the animalistic behavior they committed. Mind you in the early 70s, homosexuality in the DSM had not been taken out as a disorder. HOWEVER, it's still asinine to think being anally raped makes you gay. I mean WTF?!!!!!!
Also, this kind of thing happens more with men than people think. A previous poster put up a graph that broke down the incidents that have been reported. You said you didn't report it and believe me that while it happens more with women than men, it's more under reported by men than women.
Maraya1969
(22,479 posts)grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)Claybrains
(132 posts)I'm sorry for what you went through. I have a story too, but I'm not going to share. Just know that it does not define us. I applaud you for sharing.
ProfessionalLeftist
(4,982 posts)I do appreciate you sharing your story. It's important information for the rest of us, particularly other victims.
Thank you that. It must have been very difficult to put this out here.
yardwork
(61,599 posts)Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)so sorry.
former_con
(47 posts)a traumatic experience can't make you gay.... what an idiot. I don't even understand the premise....
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)arthritisR_US
(7,288 posts)assaulted a second time by that fecking idiot of a shrink...how horrible! I am so sorry for what you have been through
marble falls
(57,081 posts)of the military. It is an unmitigated shame that it is such a big secret with the public. ALL of the branches are covering up a lot of sexual attacks, a significantly higher amount than occur in the civilian world,.
shireen
(8,333 posts)I'm utterly horrified, first by your ordeal, then by how you were treated by someone who was supposed to help you.
cer7711
(502 posts)Last edited Fri Jan 4, 2013, 04:32 PM - Edit history (1)
What can I say in a few words that could possibly help you deal with trauma of such a monstrous, unforgivable sort?
Perhaps only this: I thank you for letting us know. For allowing us to express our horror at the double crime committed against you (the initial assault followed by that idiot's dismissive comment). For letting us have the chance to express sincere solidarity and support.
I think you are very strong and courageous. You must be. You survived, did not destroy yourself, refused to allow this one ugly incident to define and limit you.
A lot of us are dealing with traumas of one sort or another. In reaching out to console another, we help diminish and heal our own pain (existential and otherwise).
The most intelligent, empathetic and decent amongst us are all walking wounded.
I hope that you are hurting a little less after tonight . . .
blackspade
(10,056 posts)As a child I was abused (thankfully not by family).
It literally took me 20 years to move past it especially after a similar assault in college.
But I did move on. I just had to accept that sometimes shitty things happen along with the good.
You are not alone my brother.
garthranzz
(1,330 posts)Whatever empathy or support we can offer, we do.
Whatever strength you can take from us, take.
Whatever courage you need, you have multiplied in us.
Thank you
The Hitman
(562 posts)Terrible. Nothing to be said that wasn't already, other than another voice saying "I'm sorry"
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)40 years reflecting upon their own cruelty and sick behavior. THEY should be the ones with a burdensome, shameful secret--not you.
kerry-is-my-prez
(8,133 posts)Although I can't recall ever hearing that theory in any of my studies.
I hope you feel relief from disclosing this - it was very brave of you.
Firebrand Gary
(5,044 posts)bench scientist
(1,107 posts)I'm so sorry that happen to you MindPilot. Horrible.
Thank you for sharing your story of survival. Sending you good thoughts and peace.
barbtries
(28,789 posts)i shudder imagining the pain and the horror and the hurt.
NNN0LHI
(67,190 posts)Sitting here shaking my head wondering what kind of, "human", could do this to someone.
They can't really be, "human", in my estimation.
Again, I am so sorry for you.
Thanks for posting this here.
Don
NC_Nurse
(11,646 posts)pervading attitudes toward sexual assault victims, I'm sorry you are one of the may who know what it's like. I think it's particularly hard for men, who are the rarer victims and therefore feel more shame and guilt than we women do. As a fellow survivor, I salute your courage and welcome you to the club. It's a hard thing to get past and I have had the same callousness directed at me from others that you got from that clueless psychiatrist. Sadly, it was from a former spouse who also liked to think I exaggerated the abuse in my early life. One of the many reasons he's my ex and not my current husband. Thank God everyone is not like that.
Not every therapist is like that asshole. If you feel you need more support, find a good one. I did. I wish you well. I support you in your decision to come forward and I hope it helps others like us. Much love to you.
Silver Gaia
(4,544 posts)Lilyeye
(1,417 posts)and it really disturbs me to think of the cruelty and evil those disgusting individuals inflicted on you. My sympathies are also with the others in the thread who shared their thoughts about similar incidents that happened to them as well. Thank you for sharing your stories for us.
WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)tavernier
(12,383 posts)That's not a rape; That's assault with intent to kill. Rupture of tissues, organs, peritonitis and death are all possibilities in this scenario. That little "hazing prank" was as innocent as a gang of street thugs beating someone to death with a tire iron. It truly is sad that there is no retribution other than the knowledge that those kind of people self destruct early on in life.
MissMillie
(38,555 posts)That you had to live something so horrible is just wrong, wrong, wrong.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)What kind of a nation attacks its own people? And in time of war?
Sickening.
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)And the insults after the fact too. Rape is not treated as the serious crime it is in this country. That needs to change.
warrior1
(12,325 posts)samsingh
(17,595 posts)about your experience
tpsbmam
(3,927 posts)similar experiences. Your courage here helps others and I hope it's helped you.
Permanut
(5,602 posts)then and now. I was on a small Navy ship in the sixties, and the atmosphere was decidedly shackled with an unwritten, but very formal code of conduct. I saw nothing like what you experienced, but I guarantee it could have happened.
Thing is, everybody was fine with going ashore and getting drunk and hitting the local brothels.
So I know the atmosphere you served in, and I can fully understand your reluctance to share your journey, your challenges, your ordeal. I salute you for strength and courage, and for sharing a little of your journey here.
calimary
(81,238 posts)The tragedy is how the system reinforced your remaining silent and others around you to be complicit and/or just plain loutish and ignorant - for so long. And we all know, unfortunately, that prevailing attitude is still alive and well to this very hour.
DISGUSTING. And a damned DISGRACE. Rape is rape. And it's a CRIME. In every sense of the word. And a SIN of the worst kind.
And even the perpetrators who are somehow brought to justice don't pay the price anywhere NEAR as long as their victims do - for the rest of their scarred, assaulted, and violated lives.
libodem
(19,288 posts)Very traumatic situation. Sorry you had to endure that and the second trauma of having it downplayed. You survived and now you are here for others. Bet your mail box fills up with messages from those of us who never shared with anyone else. You are brave beyond words.