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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFrozen lake rescue descends into chaos in California
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9772580/Frozen-lake-rescue-descends-into-chaos-in-California.htmlFrozen lake rescue descends into chaos in California
The rescue of a man who had plunged into the freezing waters at Lake Jackson in California on Christmas Day descends into chaos as his rescuers begin to inadvertently follow him into the icy lake.
11:31AM GMT 31 Dec 2012
Amateur video captured the terrifying minutes when several people got into difficulty in the icy waters at Lake Jackson in Wrightwood, California as the rescue of one man descended into chaos on Christmas Day.
The incident began when one man sledding on the largely frozen lake fell into the water, prompting a handful of onlookers to come to his aid.
The first person on the scene then slipped into the lake after the ice beneath his feet gave way. Attempting to pull himself out, this man then inadvertently pulled yet another into the dangerously cold waters.
As ropes and rubber rings were produced to rescue them from the freezing depths, yet more of the ice began to give way reportedly leaving as many as 12 people in the lake.
Eventually, everyone was pulled to safety.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)your weight spread out over a larger area is less likely to break the ice than concentrated into two small spaces the size of your feet.
i can't believe nobody realized this.
Brother Buzz
(36,501 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)helps to have gone to college in a very snowy place though.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #15)
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REP
(21,691 posts)Still blows my mind. And it's not as though we get real rain here, either!
Lasher
(27,673 posts)Most of them had no clue about how to effect a rescue in this situation. Some threw flotation devices and one threw a rope. That was good. But lots of them just walked up to the edge of the ice. And at least one child was permitted to join them in this folly.
It didn't seem that any of them tried to make their way to the shore, which appeared to be nearby and unobstructed by ice.
Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)
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Logical
(22,457 posts)Response to Logical (Reply #8)
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panader0
(25,816 posts)Every year people drive into the flooded washes and get swept down stream. Now you have to pay for all rescue expenses if you drive around a barrier. Years ago a guy I knew had his truck washed away. I went with him the next day and only the roof of the truck's cab was visible above the sand.
Logical
(22,457 posts)that people who love making fun of people who make mistakes are actually insecure because they have made many themselves and want to feel smarter than them. Maybe in this case it is not true.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)I lived in Michigan where ice fishing and other winter activities are commonplace.
Fine, but Californians do not. I've grew up in Michigan, and live in Los Angeles for 17 years. Wrightwood is a ski resort close to Los Angeles, and not much of resort at that because it doesn't get that cold that far south.
To criticize others for not having experience in something that they couldn't have experience in is not ignorance on their part, but ignorance, yes, on your part.
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Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)A HERETIC I AM
(24,382 posts)I was living there when I first found DU.
In 20 minutes we could be up in the mountains and about an hour to get us to Wrightwood. I have to say, though I didn't really like living in California, the scenery in the high desert was gorgeous. Often the clouds that were covering Castaic and Santa Clarita would come up the 14 freeway and spill over the mountains, dissipating as they flowed toward Palmdale, creating this lovely picture that I could see on a regular basis.
It could be 75 degrees in town but the San Gabriel range would be snow capped.
It was often very pretty.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Those people who came to the lake may have had no idea that the lake had just frozen over the night before, which is actually quite unlikely, as people would fall in at the shoreline, not out in the middle of the lake. The ice wouldn't be thick enough for them to get any further in a single night of freezing.
and I still think your attitude is despicable, for other reasons, as well. Human beings make mistakes of judgement; this does not mean that they are required to die as a result. I find a stunning lack of empathy on your part.
Response to kwassa (Reply #34)
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kwassa
(23,340 posts)I need not pay attention to you ever again. You are one of the people you mock.
Last edited Fri Jan 4, 2013, 12:28 AM - Edit history (1)
edited for inappropriate wording and graphic
Response to kentauros (Reply #41)
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kentauros
(29,414 posts)And I'll edit my post to kwassa.
I still don't agree with your point of view, and will remember not to challenge you on it again.
Response to A HERETIC I AM (Reply #42)
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Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)a single mistake, ever. Kudos, sir! :slowclap:
Response to Sheldon Cooper (Reply #29)
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Wind Dancer
(3,618 posts)Your comment says more about you than those you ridicule.
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cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)And horrible, and well, mean.
Weren't those people IDIOTS though? Yessiree...
Take one step on to the lake ice here in Big Bear and it's a $500 fine. Flatlanders pay it regularly.
Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #45)
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cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Just take the road east from Wrightwood across the 15 and past Silverwood Lake.
That no one laid down is the first thing I noticed, and the fact they walked right up to the edge of the ice.
We had great holidays, thanks. Things are good here, cold with about a foot of snow in the shady areas.
Be well, my horrible mean friend. You be safe as well.
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CreekDog
(46,192 posts)when in fact, it's bravery. selfless bravery.
you know, up here on the coast, the undertow is deadly and the key is when you get caught in it, to swim parallel to the shore until you get on the right side of the rip current.
many people don't know that, and drown.
it doesn't make them stupid, it just means they don't know that one very crucial thing, that most people don't know.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)I could say more, but your own words speak volumes.
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flvegan
(64,425 posts)Hi, you know me.
You see someone drowning in a lake of ice. You look to your left and your right, no rope and no ladder. No branch, no lumber. Staring down the barrel of that gun, pointed at that person.
Maybe we should be all filling out Health and Safety forms rather than actually living up to what we are. So long as someone is there to call folks that answer a call "FUCKING MORONS"
You disappoint me with this.
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flvegan
(64,425 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)I am supposing you have your last hurrah to this world all planned out and proper - no accidents for you! You will outsmart the grim reaper cuz you, you are so smart....
Response to Whisp (Reply #73)
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Whisp
(24,096 posts)I'm almost sorry for you.
But not quite.
Tempest
(14,591 posts)First rule of rescuing someone from water or ice: Don't get too close to the edge. In the case of ice, learn to read the patterns of cracking and you know where the ice is the strongest.
I fell through the ice once with my girlfriend. The first thing I did was tell my brother and his friend to stay away and find something long to reach us with. Luckily, the ice thickened a few feet away and we were able to reach it. The 1.5 mile run back to town in 35 degrees below zero temperature happened so fast I don't remember it.
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)Luckily it was into the shallow end. Thought is was a wind blown patio cleared of snow and was to busy looking at the house.
Brother Buzz
(36,501 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)He would have eviscerated himself.
Sid
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)Must have thought i was mad.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Brother Buzz
(36,501 posts)It happen north east of LA basin
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)...yelling in Spanish, and to the others who risked their own lives to save those who had fallen in!
A lot of Spanish being shouted. The thought occurred to me that these might be people from south of the border (not a whole lot of frozen lakes in Mexico, I imagine), or, in any case, were people whose experience with frozen lakes was non-existent or very limited. They didn't know the '"lie down on the ice" rule that people in very cold climates learn (as with people raised in coastal areas who learn "never turn your back on the ocean" . But whoever they were, and whatever mistakes they made, many of them showed bravery and daring and quick thinking, throwing in ropes and floaters.
I'm rather appalled at the above posters who call these imperiled people "idiots" and state that they have no sympathy with people who are ignorant of something or make mistakes. Jeez. What hard hearts they must have! I hope that if they ever make a mistake, out of ignorance or carelessness, someone is there to rescue them. We all have things we don't know. We all make mistakes. We are all sometimes thoughtless or careless. To the hard-hearted I say: Show a little compassion and create some good karma for yourself.
I'm just so GLAD that the rescuers acted so quickly and that apparently all got out of this dire situation alive and with no serious injury!
Pass it forward!
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LWolf
(46,179 posts)riding innertubes on the snow. I used to live within a reasonable driving distance. I remember cautioning my teenage sons to stay away from the path that would have taken them onto the ice.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)raised in Upstate New York would know what to do - none of them were involved in scouting.
NickB79
(19,299 posts)Land of 10,000 Lakes (some of which actually fully thaw by late August!), that is one cringe-worthy video.
Ganja Ninja
(15,953 posts)I was all the way over on a deserted part of the lake near a swampy part. I was at least 1/4 mile from the nearest house. Luckily the water was only a little over waist deep. My feet stuck in the mud but I was able to pull myself back onto the ice and walk home. Oddly it wasn't as cold as you might think. My pants froze and blocked the wind and the water in my boots started to warm up after I started walking.
Xolodno
(6,411 posts)More like Jackson mud hole or pond. Live not too far from there and driven by it many times....I could never wrap my head around it as being a "lake".
But then, as someone who loves visiting the national parks and seen many lakes...I may be a bit biased.
Zookeeper
(6,536 posts)However, I always did my best to look impressed.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)We've got a lot of lakes.
Zookeeper
(6,536 posts)Not so much and mostly pretty small. I lived in CA for a decade, BTW. Have you spent time in the Great Lakes states?
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)or Mono Lake, Honey Lake or Owens Lake...
kwassa
(23,340 posts)only a couple man-made reservoirs like Lake Hollywood, which I used to run around on weekends. The Lakers were imported from Minnesota, Land of 1000 ...
Most of the lakes in California are actually reservoirs, created by dams.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)And the lack of them within LA city limits doesn't contradict what I said.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)June Lake
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)and pretty close to a very different:
Mono Lake
kwassa
(23,340 posts)it is so otherworldly.
Zookeeper
(6,536 posts)Brother Buzz
(36,501 posts)Heck, I can think of five of lakes I spent quality time at that would fit into Walden pond with room left over for swimming.
knitter4democracy
(14,350 posts)I've got family out there, and when we visit, they love to show us the "lakes." We always look suitably impressed and then laugh when we get back home.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)and they are not surrounded by beautiful mountains like California lakes are.
two photos of Lake Tahoe.
knitter4democracy
(14,350 posts)We have lovely hills in the UP and a lake up there called Lake of the Clouds.
If you look at a satellite image, you'll see many inland lakes that are good-sized. Anywhere in our state, we're just a few miles from a body of water, and almost all of them are gorgeous in their own way.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)and there are small lakes everywhere up there. I used to sail on Orchard Lake quite a bit.
Zookeeper
(6,536 posts)but I wasn't that impressed by the size. The fact that it's so crowded and overdeveloped made it seem smaller, too.
I never spent much time on Michigan's inland lakes, but Minnesota has many very large lakes. (And a few very small ''mountains."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/list_of_lakes_in_Minnesota
Three of the four lakes in my neighborhood aren't even listed.
Kaleva
(36,402 posts)MzShellG
(1,047 posts)But then I wouldn't be out there since I can't swim. Plus I can't stand cold weather, not to mention freezing water. Why take the risk?
JVS
(61,935 posts)former-republican
(2,163 posts)flvegan
(64,425 posts)I'm reading it, but I can't believe it. May your stupid ass never need a firefighter.
If I need to explain that, just give up. You're too stupid to get it.
Response to flvegan (Reply #53)
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flvegan
(64,425 posts)Mariana
(14,863 posts)If you fall in and have to be pulled out yourself, you're not a rescuer, no matter how good your intentions were.
Zookeeper
(6,536 posts)I'm surprised they didn't all sink.
Lovers of nature, solitude and quiet have to look pretty hard for it in CA, in my experience. In this case, though, it was handy to have someone around to call 911.
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)have a pair of ice awls in this situation?
For me personally, before venturing out onto ANY natural body of water known to be more than waist deep; I am carrying a pair of these with me.
Period.
So hard to believe that nobody had these available...
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)I have never seen them before. I would like to get some. Where can you buy them?
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)Arctic Dave
(13,812 posts)Easy to talk about but takes training to break the instinct to jump in and try to rescue someone.
First responders have died from this same phenomena.