General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDo CCL folks seriously believe their handgun...
with maybe 1 or 2 clips can take a nut case experienced in handling an AR-15 with a bunch of high capacity clips.
I can see that gun fight ending real soon.
They might be able to hold off a homicidal gunman ong enough so that THEY can get away. But its not like they're all highly trained snipers who can hit anything while getting shot at and a bunch of people running for their lives.l
Then the next thing you'll hear is the gun lobby advocating carrying assaults weapons in public sanctuaries! And then the arms race will just keep escalating.
AlexSatan
(535 posts)do you think it takes to take a person down?
NNguyenMD
(1,259 posts)Thats being generous. But what if they're all coked up or high on PCP, and they're rushing you AND shooting at you, you think you're gonna get that head shot in on one try? While you're getting shot at, while folks are running all over around, what if they're two shooters? You think CCL folks ever plan for that?
They can probably hold their own to save their own lives, but I'm not fooled for a second that they'll save anyone else's.
former9thward
(32,215 posts)And they have RPGs? No way you can hold them off! Please come back to reality.
NNguyenMD
(1,259 posts)With over 300,000,000 firearms in the US and plenty or psychos out there I wouldn't be surprised.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout
Crashing jetliners into the WTC and Petagon, I'm sure that was far from reality at one point too.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Two men with automatic weapons fail to kill anybody, cops with semi-automatics kill both of them.
NNguyenMD
(1,259 posts)I wonder what would have happened if someone with a CCL intervened?
Probably end up getting themselves or others killed.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)....being fired at by someone with an assault rifle while wearing a Kevlar vest?
Don't answer right away...think about it.
NNguyenMD
(1,259 posts)AlexSatan
(535 posts)like the teachers that ran to the shooting and were killed, probably quite a few. Ever been hit by a bullet while wearing a vest? It still hurts. And obviously I would fire from cover.
Remember, this guy kept shooting until authorities were almost to him.
NNguyenMD
(1,259 posts)a law enforcement or combat military background would probably hit the perpetrator with some accuracy.
But to ask a school teacher, or your everyday joe with no experience to take that responsibility is far from reality.
Soldiers still die from friendly fire, and they're among the best in urban combat.
AlexSatan
(535 posts)It's allowing them to do it.
And you have to remember that the person they are going up against is not a trained professional either.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)Some people make it sound like we want to issue a gun to every teacher, simply those who would like one. They should have to get a CCW liscnese, then go through additional traning with their local police department. There was an assistant principal who captured the suspect (and the principal had a handgun vs the other guys rifle).
There are certainly teachers out there who shoot guns as a hobby. And there are some who have never shot a gun in their life. Nobody is saying those teachers should be armed.
I have a friend who is a part time police officer, and teaches a class in a college. He is not allowed a firearm. I certainly think he is responsible enough to carry a gun at school if the law allowed it, although I realize that is a very extreme example.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)JustFiveMoreMinutes
(2,133 posts)Said no one ever
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)They have no delusions about any kind of heroic intervention against someone who has gone amok.
JustFiveMoreMinutes
(2,133 posts)slackmaster
(60,567 posts)As a general matter of policy.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)wants for their children is for them to have a teacher capable of killing another human being...<<sigh>>
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Most people I know who carry do so in the hope of avoiding violence, not participating.
NNguyenMD
(1,259 posts)CCL folks in public places is the end all the stopping mass shootings is absurd and nothing but a fantasy.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)NNguyenMD
(1,259 posts)slackmaster
(60,567 posts)...the world.
I'm sure that some percentage feel that way, but I've personally never met one. Reasons are varied, but they're all personal and based on specific situations and experiences.
PA Democrat
(13,225 posts)Did you catch this video posted of an experiment in how well an average person would perform confronting a gunman in a public setting? People watch too many Rambo type movies.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022007218
Warpy
(111,529 posts)are not going to end well and will result in a higher body count.
Slowing the shooter down by reducing the number of rounds per minute and the size of the clips would give people more time to act, either by tackling him, smacking him over the head with a heavy object, or any other means.
Slowing these squirrels down might just be the best we can do at this point.
guardian
(2,282 posts)one on one -- no.
But in a crowded mall, theather, school where the killer is dealing with dozen or hundreds of targets at some point the killer will not be focused on you, or turn their back, or pause to clear a jam. Then yes.
By the way. They are not called 'clips'. You dimish your credibility by saying 'clips'. You might as well as say 'thingy'.
NNguyenMD
(1,259 posts)of tomorrow will just anticipate having to deal with one, two, or multiple CCL folks + first responders by coming prepared with more guns or body armor. They might even coerce another psycho on joining them.
What do you propose a well intentioned, albeit completely out matched, CCL citizen do then?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Enjoy it.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)A handgun is not going to take a person in body armor out unless the handgun owner is incredibly accurate and hits a spot that is not protected. What is more likely is the handgun owner will distract the person with the assault weapon long enough to hopefully get help. The handgun may save lives due to the distraction, but yelling insults at the person with the assault weapon would likely save as many lives.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Which would give people time, which would be the point.
bossy22
(3,547 posts)You have a misunderstanding of what it means to carry a firearm for personal protection. I don't believe I am a guardian, I don't believe my gun is a magic wand that makes me invincible and protects the ones around me 100%. If a guy started shooting randomly at people in front of me at a mall I'm not 100% sure what I would do- no one is- not even police officers.
What I do know is that having handgun gives me a few more options and might just increase my chance of survival in that situation.
Kick in to the DU tip jar?
This week we're running a special pop-up mini fund drive. From Monday through Friday we're going ad-free for all registered members, and we're asking you to kick in to the DU tip jar to support the site and keep us financially healthy.
As a bonus, making a contribution will allow you to leave kudos for another DU member, and at the end of the week we'll recognize the DUers who you think make this community great.