The violent videogames. Yes, they are a contributor.

[Safetykitten]

If anyone thinks that these games do not have anything to do with violence in our society is delusional.

I am continually amazing by the conversations with people that play these games and have a gun fetish, and own multiple guns. We have a whole generation of violence adoring people that love shooting people on screen, yet would recoil if asked to actually go fight in a war.

Killing on screen numbs people to violence. I bet this kid played videogames till his eyeballs bugged out.

This kid was the perfect compilation of all things fucked up.

[Warren Stupidity]

1. Except of course that there is zero evidence for causality or correlation.

[Safetykitten]

2. and we are off...

Going climate denier tactics.

[theKed]

20. Difference being

Climate deniers reject science, defenders of video games embrace it. Y'see, scientific studies show no discernible correlation between video games and aggressive behavior.

[cali]

39. bzzt wrong. I posted links in another thread on this.

please feel free to go find them.

[theKed]

47. Somebody else did, too, in another thread

And I soundly debunked them. I'll give you the same service. No charge, this one's pro bono





http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1559-1816.1997.tb01800.x/abstract

" There was no significant relationship between the amount of time children spent on videogames and aggressive behavior...a positive relationship was found between time spent on videogames and a child's intelligence."

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2010/05/10/video-games-dont-cause-children-to-be-violent

"According to FBI statistics, youth violence has declined in recent years as computer and video game popularity soared. We do not claim that the increased popularity of games caused the decline, but the evidence makes a mockery of the suggestion that video games cause violent behavior. Indeed, as the U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals declared: “The state has not produced substantial evidence that … violent video games cause psychological or neurological harm to minors.” "

http://www.thelocal.se/37756/20111206/#.UM1PZCr7GQg

"A great deal of the research exploring causal links between violent computer games and aggressive behaviour “suffer from serious methodological deficiencies” and don't provide sufficient evidence to establish a causal relationship."

[Safetykitten]

56. Now THATS a debunking...oh wait, is it ownage?

[Safetykitten]

61. Finally! Thank you. I am a troll. You GOT ME!

[chimpymustgo]

80. These numbers prove NOTHING. From your own link:

-edit-

While children who play violent computer games are more aggressive, there's no evidence to support claims that the games themselves cause kids' aggressive behaviour

-edit-

http://www.thelocal.se/37756/20111206/#.UM1PZCr7GQg

[theKed]

82. This should help you work through that.

http://bit.ly/T2q9dK

[earthside]

81. And the NRA and Gun Owners of America will show you ...

... dozens of studies proving that guns in and of themselves do not have any influence on the behavior of bad people.

I find the mirror image with this video game debate quite amusing.

The gun idolators are insistent that their object of obsession is blameless.
The knee-jerk gamers are insistent that their object of obsession is blameless.

How about agreeing that there are many components that are part of the excessive culture of violence in this country?

We shouldn't be like the gun idolators and fetishists ... violent entertainment ought to be sociologically investigated to discover its impact on human behavior.

And while we don't support censorship, perhaps we can exercise the power of our pocketbooks to buy fewer violent games and patronize fewer gratuitously violent movies, etc.

[theKed]

85. Woah.

Hold up here just a second.

Don't you fucking dare compare me with some NRA gunhumping nutjob.

You say that violent entertainment ought to be sociologically investigated, yet discount studies in your first line. Is your intention, then, to discard research that runs counter to your world view? Because that is bad science and I will have no part of it.

[mizz pibb.]

192. Woe...

Bad spelling!

[theKed]

91. Let's try again

I saw your post.
Did you bother to read the multiple articles, and look over the multiple statistics, supporting my assertation?
It should be easy to find, it's right under yours.

[krawhitham]

86. Violent Video Games Alter Brain Function in Young Men (IU 2006 study)

http://communications.medicine.iu.edu/newsroom/stories/2011/violent-video-games-alter-brain-function-in-young-men/

[theKed]

92. Actually, yes

I don't see anything counter to my argument in this article.

“These findings indicate that violent video game play has a long-term effect on brain functioning,” Dr. Wang said. “These effects may translate into behavioral changes over longer periods of game play.”

The studies doesn't conclude on just what those effects might be and, in fact, other studies have shown increased attention capacity, motor skills, and coordination resulting from video game play - all of which which show up in 'altered brain function'.

[Kalidurga]

107. Damm Huns

And their violent video games.

[Matariki]

182. Why don't you provide some links to ACTUAL peer reviewed scientific studies then

Instead of your own opinion and snark?

[cali]

38. except there is. mixed studies for sure, but to say there is zero evidence is wrong.

I posted links in another thread on this.

[Major Nikon]

83. So why are school killings no more prevalent today than 40 years ago?

http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/287145/81/Stats-School-shootings-leave-legacies-but-not-on-the-rise

[Major Nikon]

78. Yes there's that

Also when you consider violent crime has plummeted during the same period when violent movies, music, and video games have proliferated, you suddenly start to realize it's not all that delusional to reject the idea after all. At least those not prone to delusion anyway.

[nachosgrande]

128. I don't buy the video game argument either

I think, if anything, these kind of outbursts are more a reflection of our society's shift towards a collective narcissism.

[Cobalt Violet]

3. Guns don't kill people, games do.

You don 't know if this kid played games on not.

[reformist2]

5. Actually, I've read a couple of articles that said he was a "gamer," but were they accurate? idk.

[Safetykitten]

6. Oh, what nonsense! IF he did it was Hello Kitty...you know, that kind of game.

[keroro gunsou]

8. links

if you'd be so kind....

[reformist2]

22. Here's a link, from the Independent:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/adam-lanza-a-head-full-of-video-games-and-a-house-full-of-guns-8421066.html

You can also google "lanza" and "gamer" and get hundreds of articles.

[Cobalt Violet]

70. "He is said to have been a fan of computer games featuring warfare and killing."

Said by who? It's pretty much just a rumor. They can't even tell us who said it. And even it were true it didn't cause this.

I've played war games and I don't go killing anyone.

[Atypical Liberal]

84. But soon this is going to be like saying he was a "cell phone user".

I have been a "gamer" since the Atari 2600 came out back in like 1979.

You'll be hard pressed to find anyone under 30 who is not a "gamer".

[NickB79]

110. A gamer in what sense? What games did he play?

Was he slaughtering people in Call of Duty, or playing MarioCart on the Nintendo Wii every day of the week?

There are a multitude of very good, non-violent games out there, you know.

[Marr]

111. For the past two generations, that's like saying 'he was a movie-goer'.

Yeah, who isn't?

[Safetykitten]

4. Hell hath no fury like a video gamer and beloved violent games being attacked.

[reformist2]

7. Yep. I love the personal anecdotes of peace-loving gamers... as if that proves anything.

[Kurska]

11. The only thing lacking proof is your extraordinary claim that violent video games are dangerous.

There has been zero experimental evidence that proves violent video games make people violent.

[keroro gunsou]

13. take your condesention

and stick it.

i'm a gamer, i've played just about every FPS known to man (albeit poorly) and i am so non-confrontational i make deeprak chopra look like garrosh hellscream.

not all gamers are gun toting maniacs who will slaughter a school at the drop of a hat. it's easy to place the blame on something rather than someone... or to acknowledge that you fucked up somewhere else...

that said, causation and correlation are two different things, and research data can be caged to get the results you want, as we should all well know...

[Kurska]

17. Correct all the "studies" they cite are correlational.

Yet they use them to try and make causal implications, which the first way you know someone is trying to use science to lie to you.

[reformist2]

19. Sounding a little hostile...

[Safetykitten]

34. The climate change argument.

[theKed]

40. Ease off on the condescension

The burden lies on you to provide proof that there is a correlation between video games and violence. Several court case, and many studies have shown there not to be one, so prove us wrong.

[Safetykitten]

46. Can you say that in gamer?

[theKed]

49. Tell you what

I'll give it to you in picture form, that we way we can be sure you can process it.

[Kurska]

52. B-b-but the data that says that violent people play violent video games.

Never do the fools consider that maybe instead of fiction on a tv making someone violent, people who are prone to violence might just happen to prefer violent media.

This kneejerk ban everything attitude utterly disgusts me, moral panic at it's most selfserving.

[Safetykitten]

55. Sooo, lets give them more violence! Excellent idea!

[theKed]

63. Shoo!

Back under the bridge with you!

[keroro gunsou]

16. and speaking as a gamer

please, get bent.

[CBGLuthier]

9. Used to be comic books. Whatever. I think I know who is really delusional in this argument.

America has been a violent country since it was in the womb and nothing about that has ever changed one damned inch.

Blown up schools, entire families slaughtered, assholes climbing towers and all without a single bit off help from video games.

[Nevernose]

53. It used to be mass printed books

As in the invention of the of the printing press. Seriously. There are contemporary writings talking about how they would destroy young people's morals and cause violence.

[RomneyLies]

142. I remember when it was D&D n/t

[GreenPartyVoter]

173. Me too. There should loads of us from the 70s and 80s out rampaging now, except that

we're too busy playing our video games.

[jberryhill]

10. They are played worldwide

[Safetykitten]

27. Oh yes, what could be the difference. What could it possibly be?

Oh, they have the GUNCONTROL thing! Oh wait! I am confused. You are one of those gun control people that want what the other countries have, but have no problem with kids playing killing games on computers.

I get it now.

[theKed]

41. ...huh? nt

[jberryhill]

57. English, please?

[kwolf68]

12. I agree

I don't think it's the be-all and end-all, but these video games and the realism of them and their slaughter absolutely does impact people and THERE IS PROOF of it. Absolutely violence begets violence and the incredible thing about these video games is you can actually become desensitized to violence without even doing a violent act.

These games need to be tightly regulated. But there are a lot of people here at DU who won't give up their games and movies until you pry them from their cold-dead hands. Thus they argue against as opposed to admitting when a culture has such a fascination and interest in violence then it shouldn't be a shock when that culture engages in violence.

I own guns, but am now sickened by what occurred last Friday and thus I have moved further left on how guns should be handled in our society. Games and fans of violent movies should be willing to allow the same controls on those interests, things that also play a role in our violent culture and also have constitutional amendment issues at stake as well.

[theKed]

24. Where is the proof?

This line of discussion is a pure and simple witch hunt.
It's misdirection of the conversation we should be having on gun control. It is climate deniers trying to talk about China. The great body of science and legal precedent shows that there is no correlation between video games and aggressive behavior.

[Dawgs]

14. Dumbest post of the day, and it's only 8:42 AM EST.

Nothing in your post is backed up with facts or proof.

[theKed]

25. It's gonna be

a long day, if this new NRA deflection talking point really takes hold.

[Safetykitten]

30. Nice try.

[theKed]

33. At what?

are you or are you not taking away from the needed discussion on gun control?

[Safetykitten]

45. The gamer for gun control. How odd an existence that would be.

I am for full gun control and anti-NRA. Got it yet?

[theKed]

50. Then why

are you distracting people from the necessary dialogue with this tripe that has nothing to do with what happened?
It's like you're saying we need to pull out of afghanistan because of global warming. Utterly unconnected and counter-productive dialogue.

[2ndAmForComputers]

162. You say you are.

[Puzzledtraveller]

98. It's the phenomenon of "I don't do or own<insert hobby or item here> therefore it should be banned"

[Posteritatis]

169. 6:50 PM AST and it's maintaining that position. (nt)

[Matariki]

183. Well, there's opinion and snark.

That's got to count for *something*.

[Lightbulb_on]

15. Everyone's personal crusade is coming out...

Guns, games, health care...

Take your pick...

[ag_dude]

29. Dead bodies make great soap boxes for zealots of all shades.

[jberryhill]

77. Whatever you didn't like before it happened - that's the cause

[Comrade_McKenzie]

18. Stop trying to derail the conversation...

I will consider anyone that tries to change the conversation from guns to our entertainment industry an agent of the NRA.

[Safetykitten]

32. Oh yes, I am so NRA. Gamer fanatic much?

[2ndAmForComputers]

154. You use the word "gamer" as if it was, intrinsically, an insult.

Please elaborate on that.

[Warren Stupidity]

134. +1

intentional or not, that is exactly what is going on.

[Rex]

138. Yep, called it.

This is the same bullshit tactic Rush Limburger is using on his show! I hope they are proud to support Rush in his insane rantings! Some people have no shame imo.

[Spider Jerusalem]

21. They don't, and it's frankly a stupid assertion.

American action films and games like Call of Duty are bestsellers worldwide. If they're a contributing factor to mass shooting sprees, then we should see more of them in Australia and New Zealand and France and Germany and the UK and Spain. We don't. So either Americans are uniquely predisposed to be influenced by violent videogames, or there's no correlation between videogames and violence. The weight of evidence says it's the latter, sorry.

[reformist2]

28. It's not stupid at all. In fact, dismissing the idea out of hand reduces your credibility.

[Spider Jerusalem]

62. It's quite easy to dismiss the idea out of hand

because the same videogames are very popular worldwide, and no other developed country has America's problem with gun violence. If there were a correlation, why do we not see more school shootings in Canada? In Europe? Again: either you presume that Americans, of all the people in the world, are uniquely predisposed to this supposed influence, or there is another factor in American culture that is responsible. The proliferation and ready availability of guns in the US suggests it's much more likely the latter than the former.

[bayareamike]

151. Hey, stop making sense!!!!!!

This is laughable. It's well documented (as has been shown in this thread) that the increase in video game sales and FPS games does not correlate with increased real-world violence. That probably doesn't matter to those looking to scapegoat video games -- VIDEO GAMES of all things -- for a terrible, heinous crime.

If anything, violent media (not just video games but movies, sports, etc.) is a reflection of our culture, not the creator of it. As you said, though, video games are huge worldwide not just in the United States. Shooters like Call of Duty are popular all over the world, from the Americas to the EU to Asia to Oceania. In short, they are clearly not causing violence. That has been more than sufficiently demonstrated but those looking for something to blame will continue to do so.

[reformist2]

167. There are a lot of psycho kids in other countries, they just don't have access to guns.

[nadinbrzezinski]

187. You do know though that Loughner did not

Play first person shooters, neither did the kid in Colorado

We have ONE case of a kid who was an avid player of Grand theft Auto.

You realize his parents got him a game rated as M, that is 18 or above.

[jackbenimble]

23. Don't forget movies and television shows.

I'm all for gun control because we live in a violent society. I agree with the OP that watching violence numbs one to it somewhat. I think changes need to be made across the board concerning our national attitude about violence in general.

I have a 20 year old son who is a gamer. We have this conversation all the time. He insists that he understands the difference between a game and reality. I always tell him its the ones who don't that I worry about. Just like guns, there are people who don't have the ability to use violent games without being unduly influenced by them. Do we take them from everyone because of the few who can't handle them properly? Maybe. Probably. Unfortunately I don't think it would do a bit of good unless we address the way violence has infiltrated normalcy all around us. Television and movie industries are just as culpable as violent video games.

[Starry Messenger]

26. sigh.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=video+games+violence+debunked

[reformist2]

31. Wow. That really proved us wrong. :/

[Starry Messenger]

37. Try the top link. It's PBS.

Unless you think they're in on the conspiracy.

If this violence is caused by video games thesis was in any way credible, then South Korea would be a constant bloodbath.

[Safetykitten]

43. The streches of logic are amazing when gamers are confronted.

[Starry Messenger]

48. I've got it. Science is in on the conspiracy too.

Keep your secret safe. The penguin flies at midnight.

[Safetykitten]

60. Science is not, but the game companies are.

But we all know that the tobacco companies never hid facts either.

[Starry Messenger]

65. PBS is part of the eldritch Big Gamer cabal too?

Does Big Bird know?

[nadinbrzezinski]

190. You forgot the federal crime statistics

They obviously are futzing with stats to hide the truth. (Cue X-Files music here)

[Codeine]

178. Electronic Arts is the RJ Reynolds of our time.

[2ndAmForComputers]

157. Did your girlfriend leave you for a gamer or something?

[nadinbrzezinski]

188. So PBS and the Feds are part of the conspiracy?

[SidDithers]

35. It's that damn Rock and Roll. It's the Devil's music...nt

Sid

[Initech]

119. Exactly. Same argument, different decade.

[Safetykitten]

42. You see, killing people on screen in uber violent specatacles has nothing to do with anything.

I mean how could you possibly think for one moment that doing this for HOURS a day, WEEKS on end would have any effect on a person. We ALL know that the world and especially the US is populated by rational, get mental health on demand, non-Fox viewing mommy/survivalist parented kids that know that doing this ALL DAY is just a diversion, a lark.

[AngryAmish]

75. Proof of any of this?

[Odin2005]

44. Sane people know the difference between fantasy and reality.

Saying that video games cause violent behavior is essentially saying that people don't understand that video games are a GAME, not real life.

[Safetykitten]

54. All this and more in a nation that watches Fox News.

But violent video games have NO EFFECT.

NONE

NADA

ZILCH

Perfectly happy well balanced people knowing what reality is. Killing people on screen. In their spare time.

[theKed]

58. sigh.

That horse is dead, already. You can stop beating it.

[Occulus]

104. What was the last video game you played, of any kind?

And when?

[white_wolf]

163. I get the feeling the OP hasn't played a game in his/her entire life.

Probably doesn't know Mario from Link.

[WinniSkipper]

166. Yes, sane people

How about those who aren't?

[Shankapotomus]

51. Even as someone who has played some of the various war video games

I think we would be better off as a culture if we made games centered around love or a quest of some kind instead of violence. You don't see enough of that. Everything is based on violence.

[CrispyQ]

96. This.

We have a culture that glorifies violence & suffers from a rugged individualist mentality. We're still a bunch of fucking cowboys in the wild west, only now our guns can take out 10's of people in seconds. I read that the youngest victim had 11 gun shot wounds. OMG, I can't even comprehend that & my heart breaks just thinking about it.

I don't know much about video games, but in every game I've ever played, it's much more fun to build something, to create something, than to destroy everything for points. There's a major shift in world view that needs to take place in our species as a collective.

[Locrian]

64. so... people who support, defend, etc violent video games

So... people who support, defend, (whatever) violent video games

Why? What about them appeals to you? Why is that a "good" thing? Is that something we all should want more of? Why choose it as a form of 'entertainment'?

At the very *least* - are they not a colossal waste of time that could be better spent thinking/doing etc something else? Might there be some connection with our now continuous state of war that we just accept this mindset as normal?


I find it really hard to believe it doesn't get into your brain. We spend billions of dollars on advertisement and brand placement in movies and games. These guys must be really stupid spending that $$ for no effect.

Isn't it the same argument being used by gun advocates: It doesn't affect ME so it must be ok for all, even the people that are weaker or more susceptible?

[theKed]

68. It's not the same argument.

Not "it doesn't affect me", but "it doesn't affect people". There is no credible proof of a correlation between video games and violent behavior.

And, not all games are a "colossal waste of time". Video games have been shown to enhance motor skills, coordination, and increase attention capacity. And they can be quite educational.

[Locrian]

126. ok

"Video games have been shown to enhance motor skills, coordination, and increase attention capacity. And they can be quite educational."

But WHY? Sports does the same thing -- video or otherwise. Why violent games? There has to be some psychology here, it's not a simple issue that they're good for hand / eye coordination.

[Pisces]

66. It is ignorant to think that there was just one simple answer. It can be a toxic stew of medication,

video games, mental illness, gun fetish, family abuse, movie violence etc. that can make an individual lose it. Why are we
looking for a simple black and white explanation.

How can anyone argue that the realistic video games out today do not contribute to a mentally unstable person shooting
dozens of people? I think the original poster said CONTRIBUTING, not the only factor.

[JohnnyLib2]

73. Well said.

And if we don't look at the contributing factors..................

[cpwm17]

94. That sounds about right

Not everybody reacts the same to their environment. But there's something about our environment that causes Americans to support violence more than most.

It's partly our pro-violence, pro-war, and racist views of certain cultures promoted by the media and the entertainment industry that cheapens life. Young people are easily influenced by their environment, and some learn that this violence may be acceptable to some extent.

When I was in the Air Force I heard some of the disturbing attitudes of some of the members about the value of human life. Where did this come from? They learned it from somewhere.

[NeedleCast]

67. Don't Forget Dungeons and Dragons!

And other fantasy table-top RPGs!

Lightning Bolt!

[theKed]

71. Where's Jack Chick when we really need him?

[NeedleCast]

72. Chick Tracts

Good times:

[link:http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.ASP|

Attacking the darkness with magic missile since 1984.

[Codeine]

176. BLACK LEAF, NOOO!

?w=655

[AngryAmish]

76. Heavy metal music, too.

[romana]

74. Mixed

Ironically, I have two students studying the links between aggression and video games as their senior thesis projects, so I've been spending a little time with this literature. I am also an avid gamer. The literature on the link between video games and aggression is mixed at best, suggesting this is a complex issue influenced by a variety of factors. It isn't as simple as saying playing video games makes you more aggressive or that the links don't exist, since there are probably a significant number of co-variates that go into not only choosing to play violent games, but also on acting on those violent thoughts activated by the gameplay.

At the very least, if some of this violence stems from video game play, and I think it probably does but is symptomatic of larger problems in a small proportion of the video-game playing population, isn't it better to keep guns out of their hands instead of arming them to live out their fantasies in real life? If given the choice between violence in a virtual world and violence in the real world, I'll take the former over the latter any day. And it is worth pointing out again that countries around the world get the same violent movies, music, television shows, and games that we do, yet don't see the level of gun violence that we experience. The important difference does seem to be how access to guns is legislated in those countries. IMO, that's where we need to start.

That said, we as a nation have a lot of soul searching to do on a number of issues, all relating to our glorification of violence. Entertainment is a part of that, as is access to guns. This isn't a black and white issue.

[proud2BlibKansan]

79. Agreed.

[Occulus]

106. What was the last video game you played, of any kind, and when?

[proud2BlibKansan]

108. When was the last time you spent any time with a violent kid?

Threatening to hurt you? Assaulting classmates? Able to Google violent video games supposedly hidden by the school's filter - in about 10 seconds?

Yes let's talk about real life experiences here. You first.

[nadinbrzezinski]

184. When was the last time such kid

Oh you mean he has access and your IT can't block it?

Sorry to point this out but the rating does work, if we try.

For god sakes, Auteureist, on the IPad is rated mature...it is a fiction writing app.

[proud2BlibKansan]

112. When was the last time you taught a kid who murdered someone?

My most recent was 2 years ago. He was 13 when he committed murder.

If you think I don't know enough about violence because I don't play violent video games, you are sorely mistaken.

[Occulus]

113. So your answer is "never"

and you just lost the entire argument.

[proud2BlibKansan]

125. Refusing to answer a stupid question doesn't mean I lost the argument

Please answer my question. How many disturbed kids who are over exposed to violent media have you worked with??

How many funerals have you gone to where you had to face the parent of a child who was murdered? How many parents of incarcerated violent kids have you ever comforted?

I've played every violent video game as soon as it hits the market. I want to know what kind of media kids are being exposed to. I want to know why they are so desensitized to violence. I watch the movies too. It's called educating yourself. You may want to try that for a change before challenging people with stupid questions on the Internet.

[Occulus]

131. "I've played every violent video game as soon as it hits the market."

Provide the latest title you have played or lose the argument. It is just that simple.

[KittyWampus]

155. I just played Glow Fish. It's a maze where you encircle aggressive fish and turn them into "friends"

Incredible graphics. At first I thought it would be stupid. Great game.

[Shadowflash]

87. Right.

Your reasoning is like going into a prison and asking the inmates how many of them drank milk as a kid, then concluding, when they ALL raise their hands, that drinking milk causes criminal behavior.

How many video game players don't become mass murderers? How many milk drinkers don't commit felonies?

[SoonerPride]

88. Adam Lanza played video games?

Please show me where the news reported that.

We do know however that he went target shooting a lot.

That provided all the practice for massacre that he needed.

[phleshdef]

89. I've played very violent video games for years. I own no gun. I have no desire to hurt anyone.

I have no desire to do anything I've ever done in a video game. And it certainly hasn't made me "numb" to the real thing.

[Pisces]

101. That is you. Are you on medication for mental health issues, are you diagnosed ADHD, were you abused

etc. There is more than one contributing factor. I think people are saying that this could be a component of a mentally
altered mind that could potentially trigger a mass shooting.

[Occulus]

105. I'll ask you, too.

What was the last video game you played, of any kind, and when?

[phleshdef]

130. You could replace "violent video games" with "violent books", "violent music", "violent whatever".

At the end of the day, 99% of people who partake of any of the above are not likely to go out and do something sinister because of it. If someone is crazy to the point that it comprimises their own sense of morality, they will act on it and trying to go all Tipper Gore on video games isn't going to change that. The urge by some people to commit unspeakable acts of violence has existed before video games, before movies, before recorded music, before the printed word, before the industrial revolution... since the dawn of mankind. Blaming something thats just came about in the past few decades for acts that have existed for however long human being have been around is categorically stupid.

[bayareamike]

152. Right.

Those already prone to violence or aggression or irrational behavior may be influenced by violent video games but most people are not prone to violence, aggression, etc. It's not as if people are playing video games and becoming killing machines. Use your head people!

[KittyWampus]

156. But you are contributing to the violent currents in our collective consciousness.

[phleshdef]

165. Things like what you just said make me want to violently scoop my eyes out with a spoon.

Its as if violent currents in our society haven't existed and been very dominant since the dawn of man...

[Codeine]

177. This sort of post is why people don't take Democrats seriously. ny

[leftyohiolib]

90. on what do you blame the violence that occured BEFORE there were violent video games?

[theKed]

93. Comic books, rock and roll music, those no-good Tudors.

There's always something to take the fall.

[Codeine]

181. Videogames are so powerful

that they actually retroactively made the world more violent. Call of Duty: Black Ops actually tore a whole in the fabric of space and time and fostered a human nature so violent, so rapacious, so unalterably cruel that it changed the course of history itself.

A retcon, if you will.

[leftyohiolib]

194. yes they create a spining vortex of pure evil, an opening of the very mouth of hell out of which

GUNS sprang forth into the hands of the unwanting and forcing them to take up those arms and continue satan's unholy plan upon this land. this video game stuff (here we go again) is such a distraction

[raouldukelives]

95. I watched the most violent game in America last night.

49ers held on. Good game.

[siouxsiecreamcheese]

97. I have played violent video games since I was a kid

I'm in my 30's and still play them. I also happen to work part time in the industry and am married to someone from the industry. We are probably the most peaceful, loving people you will ever meet. Neither of us own a gun or want to own a gun. We are also both mentally stable, and see no correlation between real life and simulation. That's the difference. I wish guns have never existed, I really do. However, the main issue here is, that a mentally stable person will not think twice about hurting someone. It's an idea that would never cross their minds. You give a violent game to an unstable person, you may be agitating them. What needs to happen is more gun control, as in no guns in my opinion, and more readily available, cheaper, mental health care.

[OhioChick]

99. Most med school students/surgeons game

Surgeons With Video Game Skill Appear To Perform Better In Simulated Surgery Skills Course

In a study involving 12 surgeons and 21 surgical residents, video game skill was correlated with laparoscopic surgery skill as assessed during a simulated surgery skills course, according to a report in the February issue of Archives of Surgery, one of the JAMA/Archives journals.

James C. Rosser Jr., M.D., of Beth Israel Medical Center, New York, and colleagues asked 33 surgeons (21 residents and 12 attending physicians) about their video game--playing habits, then assessed their performance at the Rosser Top Gun Laparoscopic Skills and Suturing Program, a one-and-a-half day course that scores surgeons on time and errors during simulated surgery drills. During the study, conducted from May through August, 2002, the surgeons also played three video games for 25 minutes while the researchers assessed their gaming skills.

Of the surgeons who participated in the study, 15 reported never playing video games, nine reported playing zero to three hours per week, and nine reported playing more than three hours per week at the height of their video game playing. "Surgeons who had played video games in the past for more than three hours per week made 37 percent fewer errors , were 27 percent faster and scored 42 percent better overall than surgeons who never played video games. Current video game players made 32 percent fewer errors, were 24 percent faster and scored 26 percent better overall than their non-player colleagues," the authors write. Those in the top one-third of video gaming skill made 47 percent fewer errors, performed 39 percent faster and scored 41 percent better on the overall Top Gun score than those in the bottom one-third.

"Training curricula that include video games may help thin the technical interface between surgeons and screen-mediated applications, such as laparoscopic surgery," the authors conclude. "Video games may be a practical teaching tool to help train surgeons."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070220012341.htm

[cynatnite]

100. My son is not allowed to play his shooter games for at least until after the new year...

No, he's not going to go shoot up anything nor does he have access to weapons. I'm just not comfortable with this right now.

[Occulus]

124. That's fair.

If one of his friends gets killed by a drunk driver, are you going to take your son's car away, too?

I have to say, were I your son, I'd resent the living fuck out of that, I'd be trusting you a little less, and I'd want to get out ASAP!

[cynatnite]

127. My son is 13 years old for one thing....

For another thing, if he was older such as 16 or 17, we would talk about it and taking it away wouldn't be a reasonable option at that age.

At his current age, he doesn't have the same level of understanding that he would if he were older.

We've raised other kids and we've got some experience.

Besides, if my kid did resent it...so fucking what. He's a kid and we are his parents. Period.

[Drunken Irishman]

102. I thought it was the Marilyn Manson with his devil music!

I don't think your statement is much different than those who say the reason for this is that we took God out of our schools. They're both unfounded and take the focus off the real issues - mental health and the fact it's so easy to get a gun in this country.

There are millions of kids around the world who play just as many violent video games as you suggest Adam Lanza did and hardly any mass shootings outside the United States. Why? You do realize the 'gamer' culture is more rooted in Japan, where a great deal of violent video games are made, than the U.S., right? Yet their gun violence is remarkably low ... they rarely have mass shootings. Seems their kids do just fine with violent movies and video games.

So, why can't American teens handle 'em? It's not the video games ... and suggesting that's the core reason dismisses the true problem.

[Rex]

103. Nothing like making up something to fit how you want things to be.

Sadly, there is no correlation at all between video games and actual serial killers etc.. Next topic.

[Marr]

109. Ever read Don Quixote?

The churchies in that book make the exact same arguments you're making about video games, only their bogeyman is romantic novels.

[flamingdem]

114. I agree, these games have become so bloodthirsty and the fact that

it's computer generated makes that okay supposedly..

But it has numbed kids to violence, the brain receives all that information subconsciously and killing is easier.

I think those games should be banned. They're contributing and I don't care how many gamers say it does
not effect them. There are those who are effected and will act out or at a minimum use them for "training".

[Occulus]

115. What was the last video game you played, of any kind, and when?

[flamingdem]

118. Hello, I was making video games for a living

I know there is a range but some of the extreme games are bloodthirsty

[Occulus]

121. Titles, please

or you have no facts.

[jeff47]

123. Such as?

For example, in Gears of War you literally have a chainsaw strapped to the bottom of your assault rifle.

The games are anti-war, anti-WMD and anti-global warming.

The message from these games isn't "Woo-hoo! Headshot!". There's far more in these games. And if Republicans knew, they'd be protesting the hell out of all of them.

[Rex]

137. Such as?

.

[KittyWampus]

159. Glow Fish.

[Wednesdays]

116. What constitutes a violent videogame?

[Initech]

117. I play Borderlands, Call Of Duty, Skyrim, and Assassin's Creed.

I never in my life would ever think of even purchasing a firearm. If you're against that form of entertainment you might as well be against free speech because if we make those illegal that would be infringing on free speech.

[RomneyLies]

144. Some great titles there

Hours and hours of fun.

[Initech]

147. I also play a lot of Civilization V. Love that game.

[RomneyLies]

148. I play quite a bit of WoW

Only get to play when I'm not on the road so much for work, though.

[jeff47]

120. You really should find out about video games before you decide to ban them

I started to type up a reply to this. But it got longer and longer and longer, to the point where I think it is better as it's own post.

It's over here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022010464

[Egalitarian Thug]

122. That took longer than I expected. And what do all of these 'causes' have in common? n/t

[Exultant Democracy]

129. Find the statistics that show crime going up with video game usage, I'll eat my hat.

Then explain why Australians who watch the same movies and play the same video games have managed to significantly reduce mass shootings without doing anything about video games.

[Puzzledtraveller]

133. I made a similar point in another thread.

The issue is two fold, it's either the one advocating restrictions or bans has nothing invested in the object, or they misunderstand it. I do not own a gun , have no desire to. I do however love my Fallout series!

[thelordofhell]

132. Sorry, I was too busy reading The Catcher In The Rye while listening to Judas Priest backwards

What is this OP supposed to be about again??

[backscatter712]

135. NO! It's those scandalous penny-dreadful novels!

Then it was those Tijuana bibles!

Quick everyone! It's time to suppress free speech!

[backscatter712]

136. Ban Lady Chatterly's Lover! n/t

[Xyzse]

140. I'm sorry to say but I think this is just a convenient excuse

So at times I have to wonder what is going on in the guy's head.
What type of twisted logic did he go through to get to that point.

In killing his mother first, perhaps to try to feel, yet could not.
Then to travel to the school, to kill the kids since they were what was important to his mother. Hating that which she loved since he can't feel that same way or perhaps was it jealousy?

I don't know. However, that to me seems a more plausible reason to why he did such a thing rather than the effects of being desensitized through video game violence.

I know games can get emotional. I mean, I know some people that went ballistic when their MMORPG like Warcraft Privileges got taken off. I even thought I heard someone kill somebody for cancelling their accounts or something.

However, I don't equate that to the video game violence itself, rather their addiction to it and the video game/player being taken away. I can see someone going bonkers if they lose their virtua-pet, or their television taken away or something else that means a lot to them.

This may actually be amplified by MMORPGs, which creates a community that they feel part of. Facing the prospect of that loss to such a connection, or something that they feel they worked on for a long time. People do sometimes lose it and do something in the heat of the moment.

Now I am not saying that I am against games, far from it, just saying that sometimes the value system is skewed, but that isn't in relation to the violence within the game, but perhaps how important whatever it is to them, be it a game, a system, a machine or what not.

That it happens due to games, to me is few and far between. It just gets sensationalized due to it being related to a game. It doesn't even have to be the violence factor in the game, just how important it is to them.

Any how, Lanza however, this instance seems too cold to have been done in the heat of the moment. There is a certain amount of pre-meditation to go to the school after killing his mother.

[Uncle Joe]

143. I though about that angle as well but the kids weren't the only thing important to his mother

the guns were as well, she loved target shooting.

In killing his mother first, perhaps to try to feel, yet could not.
Then to travel to the school, to kill the kids since they were what was important to his mother. Hating that which she loved since he can't feel that same way or perhaps was it jealousy?

I believe it's possible he knew the backlash against guns from such an atrocity would be striking at his mother as well.

In this way he could hurt her three ways, killing her, killing the children and giving momentum to the movement opposed to her passion.

[Xyzse]

145. That is definitely possible too.

So I wonder is it jealousy or is it to see if he can "feel" (taking a quote from one of the articles posted today).

Either way, I think it is just way too cold to be related to having it be the heat of the moment thing.

[Uncle Joe]

146. As to your question, jealousy or to feel? I have no answer.

I do agree with your final summation sentence, he planned this in advance.

[Xyzse]

150. Somehow, I also considered the December 21 idea

It was tongue in cheek, but I feel like this whole week will be insane till the 21st due to some people's believing things will end, which makes some more reckless.

[RomneyLies]

141. I suppose you denounce the United States Army, then

They've been giving away a free first person shooter game for years:

http://aa3.americasarmy.com/

[LP2K12]

149. and...

Fifty Shades of Grey encouraged young women and teenage girls to experiment with BDSM and sex toys.

Parents need to be parents.

We own a PS3, Xbox 360, Wii and PSVITA. My five year old has designated games and we don't let him play the shooters that I play.

Again... PARENTS need to do some damn PARENTING.

[SomethingFishy]

153. You "bet" this kid played video games?

But you really have no idea. Yet you make your statement as unequivocal fact. You call me "delusional" because I disagree with you.

Well thats really the way to get things done, call anyone who disagrees with you delusional and thats that. You win. I guess we should ban all violence in society. No movies, TV, video games. And what about schools? I guess we have to drop all history. No teaching about war, nothing on the holocaust. No sports that involve "violence"..
How about those sports? How about those closeups of the biggest hardest hits every Sunday? Gotta dump those too.

Maybe we should just stop going out of the house. You are pretty much assured that nothing bad will ever happen if you just stay in bed all day every day.

Yeah and I'm the delusional one

[Matariki]

185. Definitely want to add the Bible to your list of violent things to throw out.

I learned THAT from the soon to be banned ultra-violent Clockwork Orange.

[ancianita]

158. Not buying this. MILLIONS play video games in countries that have no massacres like ours.

[reformist2]

168. That's because they don't have guns. It doesn't disprove the idea that video games are a problem.

[ancianita]

195. They don't have guns? Got any proof of that? A number of them have legalized gun ownership.

[Warren DeMontague]

160. Yes, anything except the obvious, i.e. the fact that he used a gun designed to kill lots of people.

Lets make it about anything else, lets divert, lets change the subject. Lets speculate, hem, haw.. the "jury is still out" and conflate with all sort of other shit.

ANYTHING EXCEPT THE OBVIOUS WHICH IS THAT NO ONE IN THIS COUNTRY NEEDS TO OWN ONE OF THESE:



BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THE GUY USED TO KILL CHILDREN. PERIOD. END OF FUCKING STORY. THAT'S THE DEBATE.

[davidn3600]

161. Correlation does not equal causation

[woodsprite]

164. I think it's more the movies and TV than the video games.

Also, the one report sounds like they compared violent video games to no video games during a 2 wk period for the 2 groups. They couldn't prove violent vs non-violent using that.

The movies are horrible and they're on the TV every night flipping around the dial. There used to be a few hour long horror slot during Saturday afternoons on a couple of channels back when I was a kid - maybe 1 or maybe 2 movies and that was it for the week for horror/gore. They weren't on 24/7 - which is almost what you can find now with cable, dish, on demand, etc, and they're not all on the 'pay' channels either - some are series. Final Destination, Saw and their sequels are particularly gruesome.

[justiceischeap]

170. You better keep an eye on me then

I take anti-depressants
I play violent video games, the more violent the better
Oh, except I'm a vegetarian because I can't handle the idea of eating an animal because they have to die for my consumption, I don't own a gun nor will I again because I know there is the possibility that I could harm someone with it...me. Also, I'm squeamish at the site of real blood, so I can't imagine going on a shooting spree because there'd be real blood and if I can't kill an animal for consumption, I can't imagine I'd kill a person.

And if we're going to talk about desensitization then we need to also talk about the nightly news, TV shows like CSI or Law & Order, movies that have any violence in them whatsoever and finally we need to talk about the parents that allow kids to play video games that are rated M for mature (meaning you must be of the appropriate age to buy it for yourself or have a parent buy it for you).

And if we're also going to talk about desensitization, then we need to talk about hunting, cause killing animals over and over could desensitize someone. We need to talk about the Internet because seeing gory pictures online could desensitize people and finally, lets talk about horror or action novels. Shit, lets talk about historical novels that have bloody battles in them. Finally, we really must talk about religion and killing in the name of one's religion because that could desensitize someone or give them the idea that it's okay to kill someone because they aren't a Christian, like for example, witches or the Inquisition.

[Heywood J]

171. These two things just made my day better.

[Chisox08]

172. Japan has the same violent videogames,

and yet they don't have the same problems with gun violence. Western Europe and Canada plays the same games that Americans play but people aren't getting killed the way they are getting killed here in America. Blaming videogames is a cheap cop-out to the real causes of these shootings.
Never mind the ease in obtaining a gun. In some places it is easier to get a gun than it is to vote. Also we should forget about the mental health issues that usually surround these crimes and sometimes the bullying that went on for years that went ignored.
There is some deeper underlying causes to these criminal acts then videogames.

[nadinbrzezinski]

174. When you show correlation

One case, des not make a reality, and that case is not fully confirmed. (Grand theft auto)

Also you do know that if little Johnny got an M rated game, parents bought it. I have gotten carded for games I have bought husband and lord knows I have not been 18 for a few decades.

Hell, one of my WRITING apps on the Ipad is classified M.

There is also the fact that people play these games around the world.

Oh and the kid in Aurora did not play them, neither did the guy who shot Congresswoman Giffords.

Do we need to look at the culture...yes, but you are looking at this very superficially, serious.

[dogknob]

175. I shot a gun once when I was a kid. Hated it. I don't even like games with guns.

Skyrim, however...

Gimme an elven bow and I'll wipe out an entire douchebag convention.

[Skip Intro]

179. The glorification of violence is a big factor, but doens't fit the agenda, so

will be shunned as a point of consideration. Which is a shame because the effort to address events such as happened in Sandy Hook should be honest efforts to get to the bottom of what causes violence in the US. Sadly, that much needed honest discussion will not happen as it does not fit with the agenda. Politics wins.

[Riftaxe]

180. You assume that gamers are as half witted

as the people who complain about violent video games, who can't delineate between pixels on a screen and real life.

Besides we all know the real culprit is that devil inspired rock music, comic books, and D&D!!

It couldn't be the lunatic who massacred a bunch of innocent kids responsibility now could it?....I eagerly await the next blanket condemnation of people and things who had no fucking connection but happen to be someones bogey man

[TheBadWolf]

186. I've been a gamer for 32 of my 36 years.

I've never committed an act of violence. I've never wanted to shoot someone. See, I have the ability to tell the difference between make-believe and the real world. Take your scapegoating nonsense elsewhere.

[dogknob]

189. 34 of 43...

Avalon Hill, anyone? I had a subscription to Ares (the gaming, not the porn) magazine and wish I still had my original copy of The Creature That Ate Sheboygan.

TSfriggin' R!

Later on... Bioware and of course Skyrim.

I have never owned a gun.

[XRubicon]

191. I used to play "US Navy Fighters"

I was obsessed with flying my fighter jet, dropping 500 lb bombs, shooting missles. I couldn't get enough...

I was not able to get access to an F-14 in real life, so I did not have a chance to act out my obsession... man was I disappointed.

[mizz pibb.]

193. I happened to see one once and was horrified.

I believe they are being used as a tool to get future soldiers to kill with abandon. They are sick stuff--very dark energy