What Will You Do If the Election Is Stolen?

[Nevilledog]

https://www.hamiltonnolan.com/p/what-will-you-do-if-the-election

The US presidential election is less than six months away. I do not know what the outcome will be, and neither do you. What we do know, however, is the range of what very well might happen. Let’s talk about one scenario in particular: Trump loses, but refuses to concede, and makes a concerted effort to steal the election. The time to make a plan for this is now.

There is more or less a 50/50 chance that Trump wins the election outright. If he doesn’t. If he doesn’t, there is much better than 50% chance that he claims that he won anyhow and tries to steal it. I am basing this estimate, first, on the fact that that is exactly what he did last time. (This motherfucker hasn’t even conceded the 2020 election yet.) Secondly, and more worrying, the years since 2020 have seen Trump’s strongest internal opposition effectively purged from the Republican party. The remaining Republicans in Congress have, for the most part, made the calculation that they must be ostentatiously pro-Trump in order to maintain their positions. The level of spine that existed among Republicans in Congress in 2020, which was pathetic but adequate to certify the presidential election after January 6, is not there today. It is more likely that the 2024 election could successfully be stolen.

For many weeks now, high profile Republicans in Congress have been going on the Sunday political talk shows and refusing to say that they will accept the results of the election. This list so far includes Marco Rubio, Tim Scott, Elise Stefanik, Byron Donalds, JD Vance, Lindsey Graham, and others. They all say some mealy-mouthed version of “I’ll accept the results if the election is fair,” but we know what they mean. Clearly, some of this is a litmus test for anyone who wants to be Trump’s VIP. But the litmus test will not go away after he picks his VIP—it will then become a litmus test for the entire party, a requirement to unite around their insane candidate with the expectation that he will never admit to a loss. As a group, today’s Republicans in Congress are perhaps the most loathsome, cowardly collection of groveling, malignant worms that this nation has ever assembled. That’s where we are, though. No use crying about it.

Common sense tells us that, unlike in 2020, the entire Republican Party would unite in support of Trump’s false claims of a stolen election in 2024. I take this as a given. If we imagine a replay of 2020, but with the full and undivided heft of the Republican Party nationally and in every state, plus the full support of the right wing media, plus the support of the entire constellation of Republican-leaning special interest groups who have made the calculation that this is the price to staying in good standing with the party, plus the support of tens of millions of Republican voters who have been indoctrinated for years for this very occasion… it should make you nervous. We would come to the same “test of our institutions” that we came to in 2020 except that the institutions would be weaker and the weight pressing on them would be stronger. We have an extremely right wing Supreme Court. The bulk of the sentiment within most law enforcement agencies and within the US military is probably pro-Trump. And, on top of everything else, Biden himself—even if he rallies and wins—will be much less popular than he was in 2020, sapping the support of his own coalition. It’s not necessary to make a definitive prediction here of what would happen if this scenario unfolds. It’s enough to say that there is a very real chance that Donald Trump, having lost the election, could successfully seize power anyhow, with the combined tacit or explicit support of all of the aforementioned groups. The possibility is significant enough that we better think about what we would do if it all goes down.

*snip*

[PJMcK]

1. Move overseas

First, another Trump presidency will destroy our country.

Second, if Trump gets enough voters, even legally, we don’t want to live in a country with such horrible people.

[Initech]

18. A second Trump presidency will be a Revenge-A-Palooza.

It would be nightmarish. He will kill his political opponents. He will deport and jail anyone who's not straight, white and born in the US. It's some seriously scary shit. It will sink America into a new dark age that might not be recoverable.

[Juneboarder]

21. Completely agree

My family is several years into the process of obtaining dual citizenship in Europe and we're less than two years from completion. This can't come soon enough, but we're moving overseas either way.

[electric_blue68]

25. How nice for those who have money, and good health...

😑 🙄

[usedtobedemgurl]

75. Because i do not have money or health, I will be moving.

My health is really bad. If something happens, I lose my house and money. I may lose my life just living in this country, due to the medical community. When my husband is no longer around - his insurance will not cover ongoing cancer treatments in a different country, I will move back to Canada. I have no idea how I will move on my own. Sometimes I lift a can of soda and the pain brings me to tears. Moving a whole house? Not sure how that will work.

If I had money, I could afford insurance and possibly I could stay. You sound bitter. Some people do not want to stay in a country where the government does not help you survive. My health is bad enough, I am not sure I can survive being homeless. with all of us, we are one emergency away from losing our house.

[electric_blue68]

108. Sorry, it took me a while to reply an appt kept me preoccupied...

How terrible what you are going through! Hope things will improve medically, or at least better pain management.

Are you Canadian born? The way you wrote, I'm not sure.
I had a wonderful bunch of long time (?8+ yrs) on line Canadian acquaintances from in or around the Toronto area! One from Thunder Bay, too. And visited Toronto, and Montreal as a tween/teen on family vacations.
So, fond of our Northern neighbor. Back then in Toronto their subway was only a couple of years old!

I get it totally about leaving our country if worst case drumphf wins, Republicans take Congress, and the Social Safety Net is destroyed. I understand people willing to stay and fight. Bless them!

I depend on it, too. I have no means for leaving. So that perhaps bitterness (i'm actually often a joyful person) comes from 1) the possibly of our country in general ending up like that, 2) and my own tenuous situation if that happens.

I suppose NYC could susceed, and declare itself s Country. I guess wouldn't work, or they'd bomb Manhattan to pieces, and parts of the rest! 😱😭 Actually Staten Island might stay.
(oh, my goodness - just remembered Billy Joel's song "The Night The Lights Went Out On Broadway" !)

Hopefully his will be a theoretical exercise ONLY after the votes are counted in Nov!

[usedtobedemgurl]

109. I was born in Guam...

A US territory, to an American Dad and Canadian mom. I have dual citizenship. I hope it works out ok for all of us. This may well end in a splitting of territories. I hope people who don’t want to be in a red area are able to relocate, if that is what they want.

[electric_blue68]

110. Ah, waaaay over in Guam (from an NYC pov). Got it.

[electric_blue68]

27. How nice for those who have money, and good health...

😑 🙄


Eta
It won't be easy leaving your home, your area, other family and friends, for sure

[vapor2]

51. any suggestions as to where?

I'm with you.

[enid602]

55. Uruguay

Uruguay. No taxes on US income. Very stable and civil,

[MotownPgh]

104. Do you think trump will seize

bank accounts/assets of those living abroad?

[enid602]

107. $$$

I doubt it, but you never know. Tough for people with before tax IRA’s; do you pay all taxes owed (so you can take the money with you), or take your chances by leaving the $$ here in the States? I imagine he’d more likely discontinue SS and Medicare benefits. If you sell your house, you’ll have no problem taking the proceeds with you.

[PJMcK]

92. A few thoughts

There are a number of countries that offer visa and/or paths to citizenship. Some of these are in the EU but there are others around the world, such as Costa Rica, Panama and Viet Nam.

Pick a region then go to those countries’ official websites. We all have alternatives and some don’t require a lot of wealth.

[lark]

87. We've been considering Portugal, large English ex-pat population, not too expensive.

I'm trying to talk my husband into going there and checking it out. It would be quite difficult to live in a fascist country and I don't want to even try, if I can prevent it.

[PJMcK]

93. Golden visa?

Portugal had a program where if you bought a property you could get on an accelerated track to citizenship. Spain had this but I think they’ve withdrawn it.

It’s a beautiful country but Portuguese is a tricky language!

[Irish_Dem]

2. We have to face reality: The PutinMAGAGOP will steal the election if they can.

[Arne]

3. Could the script be flipped?

Where the Biden administration calls an emergency declaration to
round up republican traitors.
If trump could pull the steal an election and be so close to succeeding,
are Dems not able to make sure it never happens again?

[CrispyQ]

7. We don't play that way. Ever.

Even when the stakes are our very democracy we take the high road. The younger gen dems see that the game has changed but the old guard has been too slow in waking up to the enablers their colleagues across the aisle have become.

[Arne]

14. We all saw how things can turn ugly instantly.

The United States was in mortal danger as Pelosi huddled in the senate
and Pence declined to follow orders to leave.
Someone grabbed the electoral votes at the last moment.

[GenThePerservering]

26. We need to be a LOT more militant NT

[NanaCat]

44. Tell that to 'old guard' like Nancy Pelosi

Your body would be a few miles from your head before you realised what she'd done to you for daring to say something so foolish to her.

[betsuni]

69. +1

[betsuni]

86. What do you mean?

[CrispyQ]

4. It's going to be pure chaos.

Any swing-state losses they will try to get in front of the Supremes. Our advantage is there is Trump fatigue across the land & we already hold the White House. Also, the new House will be counting the votes so if we work hard it could be a Democratic House.

[Bayard]

10. I think most of the country is sick to death of this criminal

trump TV 24 hours a day is just reinforcing that sentiment. His outright craziness is on full display.

[Voltaire2]

76. And yet the polling data suggests that is not true.

[Bayard]

106. Polls smolls

Too early.

[NanaCat]

45. Getting the House will help

But what will also help is having Kamala Harris there to certify the electoral votes.

No wishy-washy Pence to give these fools hope to pervert the VP and carrying out the demands of the Constutition.

[CanonRay]

5. My wife and I will probably leave the US

Not sure where yet.

[Skittles]

6. what I WON'T do is abandon my country to fascism

I WILL STAY AND FIGHT.

[Traildogbob]

17. 🤜🤛

I will stand with you.

[Skittles]

22. we will FIGHT

isn't that the way it has always been? some people serve and fight while others flee the scene

[Traildogbob]

23. This vet

Gets pretty damn mad when I hear “we will leave the country”. Sure, after all the dead, severely wounded, grotesque disfigurement, and disease from Chem warfare from us that went to fight for this country for them to live in.
Tuck tail and run, give it all away. I say don’t let the door hit your ass, and when we, the majority take it all back, that door should stay shut to them.
Not alone here. I have this conversation at the VA every time I am there waiting, with other vets. We are all in agreement.
They can save the Thank you for your service bullshit, if they are just willing to give it away and run when they are called to sacrifice.
Happy Memorial Day. I will gladly have your 6.

[Skittles]

34. this vet agrees

absolutely....

on a side note......I don't say "Happy Memorial Day - it's a day of remembrance for those who gave all......but it's OK to have a good three day weekend, because that is one of the perks of FREEDOM

[Traildogbob]

42. 100 percent correct.

Happy is an inappropriate wish to people for this day of remembrance.

[tavernier]

38. You win the thread

And I hope people pay attention to your words.

Count me as standing next to you.

[NanaCat]

46. I despise the Thank You for Your Service spiel as it is

But as a veteran myself, I don't have a problem with people wanting out of a dangerous situation while the getting out is good.

It's easy to say that you'll stayand fight, if you have enough privilege backing you up for it. Not all Americans are that lucky: Women, minorities, LGBTs, people who aren't Christians, and so on--We're in very real danger of some frightening consequences if we stay. Far more than most white males would ever face.

The Holocaust and assorted genocides over the ensuing years have warned us all that sometimes to survive, or to survive long enough to fight another day, one must leave a country spiralling into a gutter. Do you really think any 'fighting back' that the Jews might have done in Nazi Germany or its occupied zones would have prevented the Holocaust? Or would it have been far better if more people had said, 'I don't care what it takes, I'm getting out before I'm dead, because things will never change if too many of us aren't around at all anymore.'

I know which one would have resulted in far less suffering and misery and mass-murder.

Do you?

[Traildogbob]

49. I have no "privilege"

To stay and fight. I have no damned choice. Just like the packed house VA patients every open hour.
They sacrificed everything for the ones that did not have to. Most are at poverty level, with every handicap imagined. They can NOT take the VA overseas with them to get the massive amount of care they have to have. They CAN NOT go overseas and work a job. They Can’t do it here. So I will stand and defend them, however it’s needed, and protect my home as well. I will probably die but that’s what it may take.
They are my brothers and sisters and give me the same respect.
I will not give up all I worked so hard for. I can not move. $$$$ I am also a veteran, so we live on enough and that’s all we got
Just me, I do not expect any appreciation. Or praise. I just wanna fight for what I earned.
No choice. Like the draft. So we had to go and had to fight to live. Some barely are. Many are not. They’re gone I Ain’t gonna run.
So all those leaving, be prepared to take the jobs our refugees HAVE to take to be here. There may not be welcoming committees for Americans that will not fight for the country they live in, or do the labor their citizens don’t want to do, or bring a strain on their economy and health care service.
We are not a favored people in many many countries. And lots see us all as MAGA’s. “They” are the only ones seen in the news.
Not me, I am willing to give all right here. And that’s fine if you are privileged enough to pack and leave.
Me and my peeps (Vets) are stuck here, to fight as long as we can. Not our first rodeo. Been there survived that. No tomorrow promised any of us.
Choices are not a given. Boy are our women finding that out.
So that IS me. And I will most definitely Do Me.
Yea, and many many veterans I served with, worked with, taught, was a regional rep for and the so many I see each VA appointment. Those will be what’s “backing me up”, as I will them. No fucking “privilege” involved.
And ya may wanna start doing the Hawley shuffle soon. It May not wait until November if they see a major defeat with votes. Trump may unleash the hounds of war to stay out jail. (Votes…..A “Privilege” we did not have during our little war and call to serve).For our democracy!

[wnylib]

65. The fight might not be a battefield one where the sides are clearly defined and visible.

In order to prepare to fight, you need to know what shape a MAGA takeover would take.

If it is by physical force during, before, or just after election day, I expect that MAGAs would fight a guerrilla terror war with independent cells across the country. They would attack infrastructure by destroying power substations in selected areas to disrupt communications and instill fear. They would destroy select communications centers - radio, TV - to take over the airways with their own stations. This would happen suddenly and secretly, so how would you know whom to fight? Whom to blame afterward?

Targeted assassinations could occur to eliminate key politicians on the left and independents not in their side.

Or, they might kidnap individual leaders and hold them in a secret place.

Cyber savvy members in their groups could hack Internet sites.

How would MAGA opponents communicate?

If they took over without force, it would be through a rigged court system and RW judges to rule in their favor. How do you fight that?

I'm not saying that resistance would be futile and should not be done. I'm saying that it mostly would not or could not take the form of organized armed sides fighting on a battlefield. Resistance would need to take the form of secretive groups knowing who their targets are and how to defeat them in court, in communications, by infiltration to know their targets in advance, by cyber savvy people on our side, etc.

How would we stop select groups from being secretly rounded up? No advance warning, just unannounced roundups here and there across the country. So, hypothetically, you're in NY and a sudden, random round up occurs in Texas, or Illinois. By the time you learn about it, it is accomplished. Same with people where it happens. Done and over before resisters can group to stop it. If there even are enough people in an area organized enough to form a resistance, communicate quickly, and act quickly.

In order to resist, to fight back, you need to be prepared for what you're up against, how the opposition operates, what specifically they are doing, when, where, and how. It would not be organized armies following rules of war. It would take leadership, planning for several different possibilities, and enough people working together. It would require knowing whom you could trust, whom to attack, and how, whether in court, in cyberspace, or in the streets.

All while appearing to go about your daily life as usual, at home, at work, and in your community.

Yes, we should fight back if it comes to that. But we need to think in advance about which type of fight it will be and what it will take to win. Then get prepared.

[Traildogbob]

113. Excellent points.

[usedtobedemgurl]

77. It is good to know you understand and support where some of us are coming from.

"They can NOT take the VA overseas with them to get the massive amount of care they have to have."

Some of us do not have money and have fallen through the cracks to be covered by insurance. The same way vets must stay to be treated, I must go back to Canada to be insured and not be homeless. It is good you understand people need things like treatment and that will direct if they have to stay or go. What is right for vets, would definitely leave me living in my car, if I was lucky enough yo have one after health bills.

It does somewhat bother me that you say to let people like me go and lock the door and do not let me return. I have citizenship in the US and Canada, but I guess once I choose Canada for safety and well-being, that will be used against me instead of thinking you habe loyalty to only one country but I grew up in Canada. My family and friends are there. They take care of health care costs. They care about their citizens. If you slam the door in my face, done it. I feel it lacks empathy and compassion but it us what it is. I promise to never close a door on you. That is who I am.

Namaste, and the best of luck to you.

[carpetbagger]

54. I have a trans kid.

He even planned on enlisting until Trump closed that option. I'm not going to judge him if he decides not to be lynching bait any more than I would judge my Pilgrim, Quaker, and Jewish ancestors from coming here in the first place.

[Traildogbob]

59. Totally understand.

Recent diagnosis of early mesothelioma from my service. Me and so many more “have” to stay for our care. Be nice to think at least some may be willing to stay and give a little back from our sacrifice and stand with us this time. So many can not, I understand. So if it’s just us fighting for this old chuck of dirt, not the first time.
Hell, climate, tornados, flash floods, hurricanes, diseases (like the ones vaxes used to protect us from), massive wild fires, unlivable heat, virus from around the world, may all make the decision for us. Actually posted here today, monkeys are falling from Trees dead in Mexico City from heat stroke. Our genetic make ups are not that far away. Stay outta trees this summer. At least we can avoid the fall, and just lay down from the heat.

[betsuni]

70. Larry David's "Curb Your Enthusiasm" on Thank you for your service.

[vapor2]

53. How do we fight when we have no power or control over the fools on the Supreme Court

We have so little power to do much, not being negative, but rather realistic

[The Grand Illuminist]

112. Take the foot soldiers

The ones that put them there.

[The Grand Illuminist]

111. When you mean fight...

Do you mean literally or figuratively? Because it is going to take both and not by choice. There are simply no other peaceful nor civil options left. That's the hell of it.

[B.See]

64. ... for this country, for democracy, for the right to pursue life liberty and happiness, but

maybe not fight for ALL of its people.

Because the way I figure it, it shouldn't even BE a close race. The idea that so many supposedly good, honest, decent people can even THINK to support this criminal dictator wanna be - this evil Mfkr,

who's backed by A CULT of malicious, hateful, fascist, racists, anti-Semites, and white supremacists, is A FUCKING DISGRACE in the eyes of the entire world.

I care about this country. My home. But there's a whole LOT of people I personally couldn't give a flying fuck about.

Not any more.

[0rganism]

8. Suffer and die in the heretic camps, I guess

Too old, sick & tired to move on, so I get to be a small part of a statistic future historians can use to measure the end of democracy. So it goes.

[Kaleva]

9. Regardless of outcome, I'll still work on preparing for catastrophic climate change

Current events may force me to modify my plans and efforts but the main goal will remain the same.

[Baitball Blogger]

11. Batten down the hatches.

Maybe I've been doing it all along. Closing off to hostile friends, and working on projects around the house to make it more comfortable to prepare for the siege.

If Trump wins, local conservatives are going to be emboldened, so keep the security cameras in working condition.

[Elessar Zappa]

12. In the unlikely event that happens,

I’ll go to protests and continue living my life. What other choice is there? I don’t have the resources to move to another country (and no country is safe from fascism anyway).

[NanaCat]

48. Do you really think that you'll be allowed to protest

I don't know where Americans get these ideas that a dictatorship will mean their life will go on the same as usual, just with a few inconveniences like, I dunno, having no access at all to abortion and forced to carry a gun. That's not how totalitarians do things.

Your first protest will probably be your last, and the dictator's goons will be happy to teach you that in no uncertain terms. If you're lucky, you'll be arrested and held in jail with 10 people or more to a cell, and laughter from guards when you complain about the shoddy treatment. You may never get a trial, and there will be absolutely nothing you can do to change that.

And that's if you're not shot dead, either on the spot at a protest...or later when you're finally led before a genuine kangaroo court judge who rubber-stamps all protesters as enemies of the state, and then marched out to a wall for your summary execution.

That's how totalitarians typically treat protesters.

I don't get how so many people are so very naïve about that fact.

[JanMichael]

50. You are correct. Once they clamp down protests will be a 1st class ticket

To a firing squad.

If it really gets that bad leaving will also be monumentally more difficult than it is now.

Look how easy it is to protest Putin in Russia. Easy peasy....

[wnylib]

66. Very accurate description of what it would be like.

[ecstatic]

83. Lol. Guns won't be allowed. nt

[Elessar Zappa]

95. And?

Then I won’t protest. I can’t control what I can’t control.

[Iwasthere]

13. Wait, you say :

"There is more or less a 50/50 chance that Trump wins the election outright." I'm sorry, there's no Fu$#ing way that's true. Polls are absolute BS! If we let the media get away with it we are doomed. How do we get the message out that the polls are BS? I agree with you, It WILL be stolen.

[LakeArenal]

15. Biden will win both vote and electoral college.

[Traildogbob]

16. Keep my powder dry

And head on a swivel.
All this move overseas stuff is not realistic.
A lot of countries don’t want our asses, Or can handle a mass exodus. They will control their own borders. They do not want hordes of Americans stressing their health care systems or flooding job markets, or just give up precious space. Getting rid of a home here and moving everything overseas is an expensive task. And would our SS or Medicare or retirement even transfer to another country? May not matter when GQP ends all that anyway.
And how will movers survive in another country, get a job at over 65-70, with broken bodies from a lifetime of physical work?
It will work for many that are pretty well off, but a vast majority will not be able to.
It would be nice but, I don’t think it is an option for many.
I will stay and fight for what I’ve built for a lifetime.
If I die doing so, I can live with that…oh wait?
I never would have quit and run as a soldier, ain’t gonna do it now. I will fight till I can’t, and burn it all down before allowing MAGA’s to take it
I am certain many will join me.
This right wing cancer is spreading world wide. There may be very few places to go, that are not facing the same take over, that will take the masses.
Lots of powder, dry powder.
Looks bleak for young people, but many are too busy to do politics.
Not at all looking very good for us. The cancer has spread so extensively not sure we can fix us.
I hope the Murdocks all get taken out in the battles. They are a major cause of it all.

[303squadron]

19. Get ready for the 4th Reich

I have often wondered what would happened in 1938 if the Polish intelligentsia would have known what grave danger they were in.

[wnylib]

67. They did know. They did not have the power to stop what was coming.

[303squadron]

74. They did not know

So they knew ahead of time that the Nazi's would wipe out 6 million Polish civilians? They knew ahead of time that 3 million of that number would be most certainly Roman Catholic? They knew that Auschwitz would be originally built for Polish "political" prisoners? They knew ahead of time in 1938 that a self proclaimed "Christian" nation* would commit atrocities at a level the world had never seen before?

Oh, and they knew ahead of time how effective blitzkrieg would be a year before the Nazi's fired the first shot of WWII?

Did the Polish intelligentsia in 1938 know that the Nazi's were bad people who hated Jews? Yes, but no one could have possibly imagined that 7 years later 1 out of every 5 Poles would be dead.

* A census in 1939, 6 years after the Nazi takeover found Germans identifying their religious affiliations as follows, 51% Protestant, 44% Catholic! 95% "Christian."

[Voltaire2]

80. They knew the Nazis intended to implement authoritarian rule

and intended to resolve ‘the Jewish problem’. The details were of course not explicit, but the general outline was clear.

Many people fled while that was still possible.

[303squadron]

82. 1941

On 31 July 1941, Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring wrote to Reinhard Heydrich (Himmler's deputy and chief of the RSHA),[20][21] authorising him to make the "necessary preparations" for a "total solution of the Jewish question" and coordinate with all affected organizations.

[Voltaire2]

84. You are focused on the final solution.

The murder of disabled people started in 1939. Dachau and other concentration camps in Germany opened in 1933. People were routinely executed in those camps. Anti Jewish laws were enacted from 1933 onwards.

Hitler laid out his intentions in Mein Kampf, 1925.

[303squadron]

89. The mass extermination

Of both Roman Catholic Poles and Polish Jews did not take place from 1934-1938.

[wnylib]

96. I was referring to the fact that Poland (and the US and all of Europe)

knew that Germany would invade Poland before the invasion happened and that Poland's mounted horse cavalry was no match for German tanks and planes.

I was NOT referring to what happened later under German occupation of Poland. I am very much aware that all anyone knew about the German occupation beforehand was that it would be very bad for Jews, political dissidents, and the usual targets of Nazis.

Of course nobody knew in advance what horrors would follow the defeat of Poland. I am very familiar with the stages of the development of ghettos to labor (slave) camps to extermination camps so I would NEVER claim that Poland or any other nation knew in advance how far the Nazis would descend into degeneracy.

I have made a point since childhood of learning about how Hitler rose to power, how the Nazi policies developed, and their stages of development. I did it because 1) my paternal widower grandfather's significant other for many years was a Polish Jewish woman who had no extended family due to the Holocaust, 2) my maternal grandparents came to the US as young children from Germany (late 1800s, long before Nazism), and a maternal uncle was a US Army vet who had survived 2 years in a German POW camp.

Sorry if I was not clear enough in my post. I was responding to the statement that Polish intelligentsia did not know what was about to happen, thinking that the statement meant only that they did not know that Germany was going to invade.

[303squadron]

101. I too thought we were not talking about the same thing

Sorry for any misunderstanding. It’s a touchy subject for me.

[wnylib]

102. It's an upsetting topic for anyone who has even a remote connection to it.

No problem. Glad we cleared up the misunderstandings.

[Lonestarblue]

20. I am worried about the loss of rights, but I am also worried about the potential financial collapse of the country.

Trump will put people in charge whose sole interest is self enrichment, killing all government regulations (including on financial institutions), and alienating other countries. Social and civil unrest will cause big business to avoid any investment in the US, all infrastructure projects around climate warming will be halted with millions of job losses, deporting millions of undocumented workers will result in a broken food supply chain as there will be no one to plant/harvest crops or process meat and poultry. All of this will cause inflation to soar and the stock market to crash. I think we would be looking at a serious depression within six months.

Like many people, I do not have enough liquid assets to last through a serious depression if my retirement investments lose much of their value. Depending how things are looking in October, I may start cashing out a bit because I don’t think the stock market will be healthy given all the things Trump and Project 2025 extremists have promised to do.

[doc03]

24. Stand back and stand by. nt

[GenThePerservering]

28. Turn-about is definitely fair play!

If they want violent opposition as well as non-violent, I can help with that.

[nolabear]

29. Work to ensure a future for my kids and grandkids.

I’m not going to be in particular danger. I’m an old white lady in the PNW with a reasonable income til I die. But setting up as much of a safety net for my sons and their families will become more important. My grandsons are small and biracial, and need all the preparation and support we can give them, whatever they decide to do.

[electric_blue68]

30. Since I only have SS, and the health care once that's gone my chances aren't very good

...
unless dome unexpected miracle happens.


And many of my mom's siblings lived into their mid 90's cogently. Even my dad 90 w denentia.LP

Hoping to be cogent and visual artistically creative till then but with drumphf in ? Sigh. I'm only 71.

[Groundhawg]

31. Best not let it get stolen.

[Think. Again.]

32. This an excellent article...

...and I wholeheartedly agree that plans should be being made NOW to face the possibility of a stolen election by trump.

I also very much agree that plans for a significant general strike should be made starting NOW, loudly, clearly, and publicly, including MORE than just unions and civic organizations, as a last resort of resistance to an election theft by trump.

[TexasDem69]

33. I guess it depends on what this really means

If Trump truly “steals” the election then I suspect there might be real civil discord on a scale that the U.S. hasn’t seen since the 60s, and maybe even the 1860s. If he just wins—a real possibility per this article—then the answer is different. But I’m not planning on trying to flee to some other country. Don’t have the resources to do so, and don’t care to leave behind friends and family.

And folks who think Trump can’t win are kidding themselves. He’s got significantly better odds of winning in 2024 than he ever had in 2016, and we all know how that turned out.

[Patton French]

35. Definitely stay and fight.

We need people to stand up for this country.

[LiberalFighter]

36. I'm sorry but he doesn't know how the election is progressing. He must live in a bubble.

His doom and gloom is beyond stupidity. There should be a warning.

If we imagine a replay of 2020, but with the full and undivided heft of the Republican Party nationally and in every state, plus the full support of the right wing media, plus the support of the entire constellation of Republican-leaning special interest groups who have made the calculation that this is the price to staying in good standing with the party, plus the support of tens of millions of Republican voters who have been indoctrinated for years for this very occasion...

Really? He thinks the Republican Party is as strong as it was in 2016 or 2020?

Does he even take in the issues the Republican Party is having? Is he trying to get Biden to drop out. If so, he is an idiot.

[keithbvadu2]

37. Storm DC with guns like the republicans wanted to do and have the republicans greet the 'peaceful tourists'?

Storm DC with guns like the republicans wanted to do and have the republicans greet the 'peaceful tourists'?

???

[brewens]

39. Get my hair cut, delete all social media, buy MAGAt gear and infiltrate those scumbags. I'll be looking

to burn them any way I can. I'm 64 and no chickenshit. If the shit hits the fan its gonna stay hit!

[electric_blue68]

40. OK, now this is Science Fictiony, and pehaps metaphisical but hear me out. In addition to...

GOTV!!!!! which I ave done a bunch of times...

Imagine Joe and Kamala being reelected by a clear margin, and fitting off Repuglican bs and dirty tricks!
Make it as visceral as you can!

Such as:
talking o family & friends, being here on DU, being at a bar w friends, being at a watch party, being at your city's Biden/Harris HQ, or probably at a Hotel Ballroom (Clinton '92!), watching PBS and MSNBC, if you are comfortable in crowds be at MSNBCs Election Night at Rockefeller Center (sooo much fun!!!)

Make it as real as you can!
And just maaaaaybeee we'll guide the Quantum Flux in Our Direction!

[Hekate]

41. Too old to leave this time around. More importantly, I think there's a historic worldwide shift going on...

I’ve felt it ever since Trump got into office — we are not the only democratic nation on the verge of voluntarily giving up our democracy by voting in an autocrat.

So take your pick of nations on the verge — frankly I think I will stick with this one, and if my bones lie here, well here is where I planned for them to lie anyway.

If you want a really apocalyptic point of view from Hekate: everywhere there are wars and rumors of wars, as the very old saying goes. Often they are ginned up as a distraction for some powerful group’s benefit. Distraction from what, this time? Catastrophic climate change — and it is here.

Sorry, DUers, I generally try to keep such thoughts to myself. It’s a beautiful day here, with the flowers blooming and a break in the May-gray of the Central Coast. Two miles from here my BIL & SIL are nurturing their garden and orchard — keeping their patch of the Earth fertile and beautiful. I think they are very wise.

Peace.

[c-rational]

56. Wise words and great post. Agreed about climate change and the need by TPTB for distractions.

[Hekate]

60. Thank you

[betsuni]

71. "Candide":

"Pangloss, Candide, and Martin, as they returned to their little farm, passed a good old man who was enjoying the cool of the day at his doorstep under a grove of orange trees. ... [He] asked the strangers into his house; his two daughters and two sons offered them various sherbets which they had made themselves, Turkish cream flavored with candied citron, orange, lemon, lime, pineapple, pistachio, and mocha coffee ... . You must possess, Candide said to the Turk, an enormous and splendid property?

"I have only twenty acres, replied the Turk; I cultivate them with my children, and the work keeps us from the three great evils, boredom, vice, and poverty. Candide, as he walked back to his farm, meditated deeply over the words of the Turk. ... I know also, said Candide, that we must cultivate our garden.

"... Pangloss sometimes used to say to Candide: All events are linked together in the best of all possible worlds; for, after all, if you had not been driven from a fine castle by being kicked in the backside for love of Miss Cunegonde, if you hadn't been sent before the Inquisition, if you hadn't traveled across America by foot, if you hadn't given a good sword thrust to the baron, if you hadn't lost all your sheep from the land of Eldorado, you wouldn't be sitting here eating candied citron and pistachios. That is very well put, said Candide, but we must cultivate our garden."

[Hekate]

72. Yes 🌺

[Voltaire2]

85. I agree the outlook worldwide is bleak.

There is no guarantee that wherever you flee won’t also nazify.

[Polybius]

43. Let's say he loses to Biden by 3 points, but legitimately wins the Electoral College by 20 or so

Would that count as a steal?

[Prairie Gates]

47. Trump has never won the popular vote

What an odd scenario to bring up.

[Dr. Strange]

52. No. The Constitution covers this.

[wnylib]

68. Depends on how he gets the EC votes.

But, even if he wins legitimately, can we live under Project 2025 without resisting?

If he wins, we will have a brutal dictatorship. Wouldn't we still have to resist the total destruction of the constitution?

Hitler was elected, too.

[WarGamer]

105. A popular vote victory and a dollar will get you a pack of gum from the 99 cent store and a penny in your pocket.

It's like saying the team with the most base hits wins the baseball game...

[Dan]

57. In my humble opinion, if Trump

Acquires the POTUS through the vote or by nefarious means I think the following might happen.

People indicate that they will leave the US - some will, most will not. But, you have to consider your personal assets will be frozen or limited in what you can take.

Social Security/Medicare will be at risk - repealing of the social programs that we started realizing in the 1930’s following the depression, in combination with a repeal of the Great Society programs from the 60’s.

The Fascist will ensure that ruling of this nation will reside with the hereditary ruling class - women won’t vote, POC have no rights, the non-straight will have to return to the closet. Have no idea what the impact of the repealing of these rights might do to our society.

The Oligarchs that supported Trump will control our economy - right to work will be the rule of the land and one of their main goals will be to ensure that they get the rest of the money currently in the hands of the unwashed masses.

Trump will pledge obedience to Putin - and what that entails, I have no idea. But I do suspect that the U.S. will leave NATO resulting in our traditional allies now our adversaries. Plus, Putin will be embolden to take more of the old USSR back into the fold, resulting in a potential conflict. Conflicts will no longer be regional but we are potential looking at WW3.

Trump will “try” to imprison his political enemies, democrats and the non-MAGA crowd. Reality sets in for the nation - even the stupid will start to wake up when brothers/sisters are interned or disappeared. I also recognize that a certain segment of the MAGA crowd will be happy with the idea of internment of large portions of the population.

Deporting 10 - 15 million non-citizens (assuming that it will only be POC) will result in food shortages, farm failures and consolidations of small/medium family farms into large corporate entities. Throwing the traditional family farms out of business and thrown into the cities to find employment. Unless they plan to work on the farms that they no longer earn.

The military will split (think North and South) because MAGA will discover that telling the military POC (large numbers of them in the combat arms fields) that they are just become secondary citizens with limited rights might not go over to well.

Colleges (non-religious) and the well-educated will revolt, protest way beyond the events of the 60’s.

Assassinations - no one will be safe on either side.

And, most importantly, Trumpism will not stop at our borders. It will be a world of conflict, in every segment of society. I think they call it Anarchy.

[ForgedCrank]

58. Our elections

are secure and reliable. It can't be "stolen".
We can, however, suffer the consequences of stupid voters. But I'm not sure what can be done about that.

[BlueKota]

61. I have no training in how to fight.

No other country will take me because I am too old and on disability. I also don't qualify for dual citizenship for either Northern Ireland or Italy where my parents families came from. Plus if the U.S. goes to the dark side it will take the other democratic countries down with it. There will be no safe place.

My only hope is that if it becomes obvious that the Magats are going to rig the election or try to have the SC overturn a legitimate Biden win, President Biden and the military will treat it like they would an attack by a foreign adversary and put the rebellion down by any means necessary.

If tfg actually gets back in the WH by foul or fair means, I will have to make a choice for myself at that point, but only for myself, and only if it becomes reality not a prediction.

[Blue Owl]

62. Diarrhea Donny's declining dementia will render him unelectable by November

Sure a few of his hard-core dingleberries will still cling to him, but it won’t be enough….

[Metaphorical]

63. The country schisms

Those of us in the Northeast, Great Lakes region and the West Coast may very well opt out of the union at that point, because I cannot see Blue America ceding to Trump America. That happens, elections cease having meaning, as does the rule of law. It may not happen immediately, but there were signs that it was beginning to happen under Trump's first term, but he squandered having a majority of both houses. He won't make that same mistake twice.

Trump could not get much of what he wanted when he was in office originally, because the GOP didn't have enough control over the political system to overthrow the constitution. He gets into office a second time, he has no constraints whatsoever. He could declare himself president for life. He could assassinate his political rivals. He could invalidate the constitution. He could purge the military of any opposition and turn it into his own personal praetorian guard. He could arrest anyone on any charge, or just make people disappear. That's what dictators do. If he gets a second term, then he will get a third, fourth, and fifth, assuming he lives that long.

If the country has reached a point where the rule of law is no longer in force, then there is no USA at that point. You do business with Trump, Inc. You pay taxes to him, and unless you're a billionaire, those taxes are going to go way up. Who would stop him? Foreign policy becomes whoever pays for the privilege of Trump's patronage.

I personally do not think that Trump will succeed. People did not know what he was capable of in 2016, but they are very aware of it now. That doesn't mean it couldn't happen, only that I think Trump has pissed off enough people that he will not have the support he needs, and I think he knows it too. This is why he is preparing to lose and then contest the election to his dying breath.

[DemocratInPa]

73. I don't get this, why everyone thinks Trump will have all this power..

We have a 80% chance of taking the house and about a 50/50p chance too keep the senate and that is rising..

Even if Trump wins, he will have limited power. Its not like on January 20th he is going to start throwing people ion jail, a President don't have that power. Even if his AG tries to, he can be stopped. The generals of the military wouldn't take his commands last term when he wanted to do crazy shit and won't again.

[betsuni]

81. I don't get it either. Military and government have for a very long time been equal opportunity

hiring. Not as if they're all white male right-wingers. Why would Trump suddenly have all that control and everyone mindlessly obey?

[BlueKota]

90. I am hoping like you said the majority of the military would not

co-operate with him on illegitimate actions. I used to have a lot of faith in the courts, and still do, in a lot of the lower ones, but I have no faith left in the Supreme Court, which has the ultimate say in almost all legal matters. The fact that Thomas and Alito are so defiant and untouchable tells me there is no way we can count on them to honor the Constitution.

My concern comes in that there are too many in our anti Trump camp, who will want to keep playing by the rule book, even if it becomes obvious that the other side has thrown it out completely, and is going to use any foul means they can to win at all costs. Honor is important, but so is protection of the innocent, and survival. I wonder if some of these people would have thought it wrong to try and stop Hitler, because it wasn't taking the high road? I liken that argument to someone who would be willing to keep paying rent until the end of their lease, even if the landlord illegally evicted them just to prove they were "better," than the landlord. I want to ask them if they think it will be moral to sit back and watch as women, and minorities are stripped of all rights and treated as property, or as our leaders are unfairly jailed and potentially given the death penalty? Yes vote, but also have a backup plan if that fails, is all I am saying.

I firmly agree with the quote, "evil flourishes while good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

[FBaggins]

91. If Trump wins, your other assumptions are far too optomistic

If he wins (turning the senate president seat red), there's almost no chance at all of winning the Senate (not 50/50). We definitely lose WV which turns the Senate red all by itself unless we pick up a republican seat. The problem is that there aren't really any competitive republican seats (while we're defending more than half a dozen that look competitive). The current odds show us around 25% chance in the Senate - but almost all of that is a 50/50 senate with Harris breaking the tie. If you assume a Trump win, the tiebreaker goes the other way.

The House is about as close to a pure "tossup" as it gets. Certainly nothing close to an 80% chance of retaking the chamber.

[beaglelover]

97. I agree. The hyperbole is over the top. We survivied a tRump presidency before and we will survive it again if

he happens to win the election. And with the way things are in the USA right now, I believe he has a very good change of winning without having to do any cheating.

I don't believe all the talk about him becoming a dictator, putting us in camps, etc. It's ridiculous.

The most important thing we have to do it GOTV. There are a lot more of us then there are of them.

[Johnny2X2X]

78. It is being stolen RIGHT NOW!

Trump owns the media. He has key players across the media on his campaign's payroll. NY Times, MSNBC, FOX we know about. I supsect NPR, CBS, CNN and many other outlets. Not just favorable coverage, but coverage edited by the campaign. Both for Trump and Biden. Trump controls the media, he knew that he had to take it over in order to become a doctator. And he's done it already/ People need to wake up to this.

[claudette]

79. Probably

never vote again if our country cannot have fair elections. If it’s so easy to steal it means there are not enough safeguards

[sagetea]

88. I think I would try to

seek asylum on an NDN Reservation.

sage

[bif]

94. Look into moving either to England or Canada.

Seriously.

[Sogo]

98. Storm the Capital on January 6, 2025, of course.

...

[Model35mech]

99. I will hide beside a large rock

Hoping not to be struck in the head by a large piece of the hell that is likely to fall in my direction.

[Torchlight]

100. I know what I'd want to do.

But that's a lot different from what I would be doing-- passively forced to listen (by proximity) to a daily litany of why the Democrats won't-fight-back/fight-back-too-hard/can't-do-messaging/send-too-many-messages/plays-too-nice/isn't-nice-enough/etc.

[Charging Triceratops]

103. Seriously, I can't write my answer here

or anywhere online. But it ain't pretty.