Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search


(10,361 posts)
Tue May 14, 2024, 11:55 PM May 14

The New York Turump Case Is Kind of Perfect. (George Conway)

I thought this trial was a sideshow; I now think I was wrong.

Paywalled at The Atlantic, Archived at https://archive.ph/hz8EB#selection-693.0-693.61

MAY 13, 2024

Not all that long ago, I thought that the trial currently being held in The People of the State of New York v. Donald J. Trump would be the last one I’d want to see as the first one tried against the former president. It seemed the least serious of the cases against him. Here’s a man who tried to overthrow American democracy by launching a coup to stay in power. A man who allegedly stole dozens of boxes of classified national-security documents from the White House, some containing secrets about other countries’ nuclear-weapons capabilities, then lied about the documents, concealed them, and obstructed a federal investigation about them.

I thought I would have strongly preferred the cases about those matters to have gone first, particularly the secret-documents case, which substantively would be a lock, were it not for the judge overseeing it. But I feel the need to admit error. The truth is, I’ve come around to the view that People v. Trump is, in at least some ways, the perfect case to put Trump in the dock for the first time, and—I hope, but we’ll see—perhaps prison.


All these locutions work, but what the case is really about is Trump’s modus operandi—lying. He’s a matryoshka doll of mendacity. He lies, usually lies some more, and then often lies about the lies he’s previously told. He told at least 30,573 lies while president, by The Washington Post’s count. He lies almost whenever he opens his mouth, even when truth would better serve him. To be sure, his other criminal cases involve lies—lies about the 2016 election, lies about the military secrets he stole. But the alleged lies in People v. Trump strike at the core of his moral putrescence—and Trump knows it. They are lies allegedly meant to cover up a tawdry man’s tawdry behavior. The case truly embodies Donald Trump. And for that reason, I think, it deeply disturbs him.


Trump’s insistence on pointlessly contesting Daniels’s veracity entitled the prosecution to draw her account out even more than it otherwise could have ... The result, thanks to the defendant, was the introduction of more evidence that made him look like a duplicitous clod.

Lots more at the link.


All of which begs the question ( to me ) "If he's a lying liar, why not put him on the witness stand, where a lie is perjury?" My Perry Mason memory is vague, but wouldn't that be the defense attorneys' job? And what if he was goaded into overriding their advice?


Trump says he would 'absolutely' testify in his New York criminal trial

April 12, 2024, 2:51 PM PDT / Updated April 12, 2024, 3:07 PM PDT
By Jake Traylor and Gabe Gutierrez

PALM BEACH, Fla. — Former President Donald Trump told reporters Friday he would "absolutely" testify in his upcoming hush money trial that is set to begin on Monday.

"Yeah, I would testify, absolutely," he said in response to a question from NBC News.

9 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The New York Turump Case Is Kind of Perfect. (George Conway) (Original Post) usonian May 14 OP
He won't testify. Lawyers wouuld probably quit (if they could). OAITW r.2.0 May 15 #1
That's right... 2naSalit May 15 #2
You are..... OAITW r.2.0 May 15 #3
Didn't he say the same Quanto Magnus May 15 #7
Riveting.. TY! Cha May 15 #4
I think you're asking the wrong question. ShazzieB May 15 #5
d45 gets more et tu May 15 #6
He would testify only if... WestMichRad May 15 #8
Yeah, he'll testify, right after he releases his taxes (remember those?) 70sEraVet May 15 #9

OAITW r.2.0

(25,212 posts)
1. He won't testify. Lawyers wouuld probably quit (if they could).
Wed May 15, 2024, 12:01 AM
May 15

He can lie in a lot of venues, but lies in Court are perjury.


(87,756 posts)
2. That's right...
Wed May 15, 2024, 12:32 AM
May 15

Last edited Wed May 15, 2024, 01:04 AM - Edit history (1)

And he knows it. What I think George is saying is what I concluded earlier, a day or so ago, this trial exposes the true nature and how the office was stolen but more importantly, how he destroys people and how they fall for the allure he has to gain such power over them. He might be the devil that so many fear.

Quanto Magnus

(924 posts)
7. Didn't he say the same
Wed May 15, 2024, 03:00 PM
May 15

in the E. Jean Carrol case?

He said he'd testify, then never did.... His cultists won't remember what happened the last time he said that...


(16,984 posts)
5. I think you're asking the wrong question.
Wed May 15, 2024, 02:36 AM
May 15
All of which begs the question (to me) "If he's a lying liar, why not put him on the witness stand, where a lie is perjury?"

There is no one who can "put him on the witness stand," except Trump himself. His lawyers undoubtedly have an opinion on the matter, but they can't stop him if he decides to go ahead.

A defendant can't be compelled to testify at his own trial, and he can't be forced not to.


(1,379 posts)
8. He would testify only if...
Wed May 15, 2024, 03:43 PM
May 15

… the prosecution is prohibited from cross-examination. Since that’s a non-starter, he won’t testify.

While I agree that the current trial is excellent for exposing what a shallow, decrepit creature he is… I really want to see him face the music for the stolen controlled documents. That’s the one for which he’ll face serious incarceration.


(3,656 posts)
9. Yeah, he'll testify, right after he releases his taxes (remember those?)
Wed May 15, 2024, 06:29 PM
May 15

Should have a smiley with long gray hair and cobwebs (still waiting)!

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»The New York Turump Case ...