Apparently, only (((one country)))

[DavidDvorkin]

is expected to exercise restraint after another country tries to murder hundreds of thousands of its citizens.

[Eko]

1. Do you think Iran should retaliate for the attack tonight?

[Happy Hoosier]

41. I think Iran should probably recognize that it's been on the losing end of this exchange.

Iran's support of militant terrorists groups is at the root of the problem, and despite all the bluster, they actual conventional military capability is third rate at best. As we saw in the Israeli attack, they can't stop s a couple dozen highly targeted strikes.... meanwhile Israel stopped nealy all of 300 weapons. I think at some point, they would realize that they are just embarrassing themselves.

And I noticed that their "instant, massive response" has not materialized yet. Maybe they are having rethink.

IMO, Israel probably should have not counter-attacked, not because it wasn;t justified, but becasue it wasn't necessary. They had already humiliated Iran.

Iran has even less of a clear case for retaliation. What would they have to gain?

[Mountainguy]

2. According to the experts here

Iran launching 300 missiles at Israel was clearly an exercise in restraint and in no way meant to cause any damage whatsoever.

[Cha]

6. Yeah, it's a good thing

they aren't really "experts".

[Eko]

10. I have seen no one on here claim they were "experts"

as well as not having seen anyone claim in "no way meant to cause any damage whatsoever." That would be ad-hominem attack and strawman in one sentence.

[Mountainguy]

22. If you haven't seen them

it's because you haven't looked.

[Eko]

40. No, I looked.

Couldn't find anyone claiming to be an expert. Can you share the posts you found?

[Aussie105]

12. Please show those posts

that you are referring to.

[Mountainguy]

24. Start here

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218867364

[Celerity]

29. no one on your example thread claimed to be an expert

so you have yet to provide proof of your claims here:

[Mountainguy]

33. lol

You read through that thread and still want to suggest that isn't what people are saying?

Ok, have a nice day.

[Celerity]

34. No, I narrowly challenging what you claimed in those replies you yourself made. Your example thread you gave did not

show people claiming to be experts.

[Celerity]

23. That is what the majority of major military pundits (like the ex Supreme Commander of Nato, multiple

former members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, other 4 stars, etc etc, ) have said on MSNBC for days.

Plus the Swedish, Norwegian, Finnish, and Danish Supreme Miltary Commanders and others over here, etc as well.

So anyone here on DU saying that is in good company.

[Mountainguy]

26. This Supreme Allied Commander of NATO

says that Israel HAD to strike back after Iran attacked them.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/video/6351043163112

[Celerity]

31. sorry, I do not do Fox, and he was singing a different tune on MSNBC the day(s) right after the attack

[Mountainguy]

32. So if Wesley Clark says something on Fox

it doesn't count?

He clearly says that Irans attack could not go without response.

[Beastly Boy]

39. Are you serious?

Launching 300 missiles at Israel wasn't meant to cause any damage?

If Iran didn't mean to cause any damage, they would have called 1-800-FLOWERS and sent 300 roses to Netanyahu.

And it would gave cost them a lot less.

[LexVegas]

3. Fuck Iran. nt

[Cha]

8. Fuck GD Iran's State Sponsored Terrorism ! Fucking

Assholes.

[William769]

35. ...

[Cha]

37. ...

[flying rabbit]

21. +1

Well said.

[Aussie105]

4. Apparently . . . no one said what you just said in the thread title.

Israel has cause to destroy things because (reasons).

Hamas has cause to destroy things because (reasons).

Iran has cause to destroy things because (reasons).

The USA has cause to be involved in this because (reasons).

It's just some people see Peak Death & Destruction (TM) across the region looming and would like to avoid it.
And are looking for an answer.
And not finding one that satisfies everyone.

So carry on! Peak D&D coming soon.

Quick general question:
Does DU have any mechanisms for detecting bots, malicious actors and their geographical location?
It's just that a few good discussion forums have been destroyed by bot posts pushing certain opinions.

(Full disclosure: I'm Australian and push a certain opinion. But I'm not a bot. Or get paid for trolling certain forums.)

[Celerity]

36. DU software cannot even auto-embed images and hyper linked text via a copy and paste, it does not have the level of

sophistication to do what you asked:

Does DU have any mechanisms for detecting bots, malicious actors and their geographical location?

It does have a human-powered MIRT team, if you consider that a 'mechanism'.

[malaise]

45. Great response

Rec

[DavidDvorkin]

7. I think the Iranian regime is pure, murderous evil

Your question is nonsensical to me.

[Cha]

11. Yeah, it is.. not just you.

[Eko]

13. Was that a reply back to me?

Or,, a reply back to yourself?

[DavidDvorkin]

16. Sorry. It was meant to be a reply to your post.

[Eko]

18. I figured. I've done that many times.

No problem. I would respectively ask you to answer the question but if you want to stick with you prior statement that is fine. People get really heated on this subject and I understand it. Thank you for responding back though, appreciate it.
Thanks,
Eko

[madaboutharry]

9. Richard Kemp, commander of British forces during the war in Afghanistan

said this the other day on an Israeli news broadcast during a discussion about the pressure on Israel to not retaliate against Iran:
“I hate to say this, but it’s true. The world likes Jews when they are attacked. When they defend themselves or fight back, not so much.”

The author Dara Horn wrote a whole book about this phenomenon entitled ”People love Dead Jews.” It is a superb read if you haven’t already read it.

[Cha]

14. I think people who want this

to happen to Jews are Shamefully Jealous.

[Aussie105]

15. That's a very cynical and extreme view.

No one 'loves' dead Jews, or Palestinians, or anyone of any nationality, ethnic group or religion.

This includes people at home.
Bit like saying 'The NRA loves dead Americans'.

[madaboutharry]

19. It is not a cynical or extreme view.

Thousands of years of history have demonstrated it is an accurate view.

Are you denying the Jewish people the facts of their own history?

[LexVegas]

20. Apparently. nt

[Cha]

25. Tying to.. Not working.

[Happy Hoosier]

42. It's a a braod generalization meaning...

... people feel sympathy for Jews as victims, but some sort of deeply-seated Antisemitic feels makes people pretty uncomfrotable with Jewsfighting back.

Pleanty of people here seem to have sympathy for Jewish peoples' plight in Europe through the last 1000+ years, but think that they should have been content to be second class citizens in Europe... even after 6 million of them were killed there.

[Coventina]

43. "No one 'loves' dead Jews"? Are you being serious right now?

If you are, you need to take a world history course!

Plus, the majority of the Middle East is filled with folks who want to eradicate all Jews from the planet.

The United States has many hate groups whose primary mission is to eradicate Jews.

[LexVegas]

17. Spot on. nt

[LeftInTX]

30. In this particular case, it's about avoiding a regional war.

Although Iran poses a serious threat to Israel via Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthi's, direct attacks between the two won't effect the proxy wars and will just bring about a regional war. Iran will still have the same capability after tonight.

Otherwise, I totally agree.

[RandySF]

27. They did show restraint by choosing a very limited response

in comparison to the daily Iranian calls for Israel's complete destruction.

[Zeitghost]

28. Can you imagine

Ukraine being held to the same standard as many here hold Israel to?

Israel is the only country many here seem to think should not defend themselves. Iran, and it's proxies like Hamas, Hezbollah and others have told us they want to wipe Israel off the map. They have said they will continue to murder and rape Jews. They have broke ever ceasefire and peace deal ever made. Every, single time.

And yet any effort by Israel to disrupt the efforts of those who have sworn to harm them is met with criticism and accusations of escalation and even genocide.

The double standard and it's anti-semitic roots are painfully obvious to anyone paying attention.

[EndlessWire]

38. I disagree.

It makes no sense to start a regional war with Iran. And regardless of what people are now saying, Israel shot at Iran in Syria first. They directly shot first. Even though Iran shot far more than they had to, it was still reactive. So, don't try to whitewash what Israel is doing. They have touched off this round. And that's after Biden told them not to do it. I personally will not take kindly to our soldiers and sailors coming home in body bags because Israel has to get even.

And, Ukraine did get restrained from shooting into Russia for more than half that war, when Russia got to bomb and destroy without the possibility of their own infrastructure getting flattened. That situation is changing.

I think that if Israel needs support with ammo and systems, they should damn well listen to our President. All this crap about "no one's going to tell us what to do" doesn't fly if you can't do it all on your own, and I guarantee you that Israel can't. Why do you think we placed warships in strategic places? Cheap talk from Israel if we have to pay the price.

Do you actually think that the United States wants the likes of Iran to run around sponsoring other bad guys to incite the war that would better be avoided? I'd like to see Iran lose the backward, crippling authoritarian rule that it has against its own population, but that appears to be up to them.

Not every, blessed thing is antisemitism. Get told to stand down? Antisemitism. Get advised to let civilians eat? Antisemitism. Get asked to avoid a nuclear holocaust? Antisemitism. What a chip on the shoulder that is, like a teenager with attitude. Could it be that we, the United States, have some real problems here at home, and that we are worried about Ukraine folding because the Putin fascists in our own government are preventing help arriving for them? Or, maybe we don't want our very own wannabe dictator to actually win in November. Israel is really not going to like the world with Trump back in office.

Poor Israel, not getting enough love. The poor Sabra, not really being all that tough. How the hell do you win against Iran and its allies (yes, it has allies) some of which are nuclear armed too, if you are standing there taking pot shots at them? Is that enough? What does this get them? Talk about defending yourself...how stupid are they??

[Happy Hoosier]

44. Of course, not everything is Antisemitism.... buuuuut....

I think Antisemitism forms a basis for a LOT of the criticism of Israel.

It comes out rather starkly in these "Pro-Palestine" protests.

I think given the history and prevalence of Antisemitism, folks need to aware of the historical context as they are making comments.

I've actually been shocked by the number of American Progressives I've met who believe that European "colonizer" Jews just came in to Israel and took the land at gunpoint. from peaceful Palestinians who were living in their own country, peacefully alongside Jews and Christians for centuries. They really believe that.

That's the context in which many of these comments about Israel are being made.

[Zeitghost]

46. It takes a massive level of denial and twisting of the facts

To claim that Israel struck first. Iran is behind every single attack on Israel for the last few decades.

Like I said, the double standards are painfully obvious. No other country is expected to allow it's neighbors to openly call for it's destruction and the elimination of it's people and then continually act on those threats.