Would a woman ever falsely accuse somebody of rape?

[Taverner]

I am being serious with this question...

Trying to put myself in said woman's shoes, after charging person a of rape, that person would be subjected to an invasive procedure on her vulva. If a woman's vulva experiences violent rape, usually there is some sign in terms of skin tearing, etc. If she was raped while unconscious, there might not be. Semen may or may not be present.

So by going through this procedure, which I assume is at least uncomfortable, she runs the risk of being charged with making a false accusation.

If she says she was raped while sleeping or otherwise incapacitated, and offers no evidence, then it becomes he said/she said and most likely won't go anywhere.

So I pose this question, not rhetorically but honestly seeking an answer.

Your thoughts?

[geek_sabre]

1. Google: Duke Lacrosse Rape n/t

[Taverner]

5. True.

What came up that shot holes in the prosecution's case?

There was something, I remember - two reports that didn't add up...

[geek_sabre]

11. Few things

Immediately, ATM footage of one of the accused. Later, semen didn't match anyone on team. Prosecutorial misconduct on part of Nifong. Sure there was more...

I recall this one standing out, because judge didn't just declare them non guilty, but innocent (which doesn't often happen)

[pnwmom]

21. The prosecution was also withholding key exculpatory evidence.

It turned out to be a political prosecution, an effort to help the prosecutor get re-elected. The false accuser also happened to be mentally ill, and had made false gang rape charges in the past.

In the aftermath, the prosecutor was disbarred.

http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/faculty_scholarship/1834

Mike Nifong, the prosecutor in the Duke lacrosse rape case, was disbarred by the North Carolina State Bar in June 2007 principally for withholding exculpatory DNA evidence and for making false statements about his conduct. This article relates the central details of his actions and the process that led to disbarment. Its key overall insight is that full open-file discovery was the figurative workhorse and hero in the Nifong disbarment saga.

SNIP

[regnaD kciN]

20. Also: Gary Dotson

Famous case from the mid-80s.

[Upton]

64. Dotson did 10 years for a rape he didn't commit..

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/Gary_Dotson.php commit

[randome]

2. I'm sure it happens about .0000001 % of the time. Or less.

Not everyone thinks ahead about testing. Some think their word is all that's necessary. Then there are doctors who might certify that someone was raped even when she wasn't.

Or someone can claim to being raped and refute the charge when she thinks she was 'mistaken', thereby giving a bad name to the accused.

But I think these are all more like TV court-room scenarios. All allegations need to be investigated so it's no good to just take someone's word.

[Taverner]

4. I guess the question to ask would be

How, in a court of law, can the prosecution prove rape occurred?

[randome]

7. I don't know how many tests are part of the process. Or if they are independently made.

Maybe sometimes it comes down to who seems more credible. That's not something that can be easily codified in law.

[Lionessa]

9. A lot of damage can occur to the accused before prosecution even begins.

[pnwmom]

19. More often than that in the case of women with personality disorders

such as borderline personality disorder.

It is possible this was one of the issues with the false Duke accuser.

[Odin2005]

76. I have a friend who was raped a few years back who is Borderline.

She is physically handicapped, as well, and the fucker her raped her got off because her mental diagnosis made her "untrustworthy"

[pnwmom]

83. That is a problem, for sure. Unfortunately many people with BPD have a history of lying

about important things. That's part of the disorder.

You can't just take their word for a rape without other strong evidence unless you are okay with the possibility of an innocent man going to jail.

[msongs]

3. does the sun appear to rise in the east every 24 hours? nt

[Lionessa]

6. Not all rape claims occur while evidence is present.

I believe most laws allow for rape to be claimed well after any evidence would be still available. With that being the case, yes, some women would/could claim rape. Additionally, some rape kits may be years before they are handled which further indicates room to ruin a guy before he gets the chance to defend himself with such evidence.

It does happen so it can happen.

[MrSlayer]

8. Of course.

People falsely accuse people of things all the time for various reasons.

The answer is, yes. It's a no brainer really.

[rainin]

10. It happens. I think it is rare.

I recently heard about a case of a man who was released from prison after a woman admitted to making up the story. Read about it here:

Here is another one.

I think it is so rare for the reasons you are describing. But, I still urge my boys to be careful.

[cthulu2016]

12. It has never happened except when it happens

We can say "what would a rational person do" but some people are often irrational and most are sometimes irrational, so that doesn't always providea good predictive model.

You can apply the same type of reasoning to what rational actor would commit a rape, given the risk/reward profile.

Prisons are full of people who made inexplicable choices.

[Taverner]

16. True

Applying reason to unreasonable people was how we lost the 04 election

[Whiskeytide]

13. Of course it can happen. False accusations...

... can occur in any context, not just rape. But that's irrelevant. The real question is whether the potential for false accusations should impact our societal policies and laws in some way.

[Mz Pip]

14. I knew of a case

I knew of an incident a few years ago. There was a high school party. Alcohol was involved. Inibriated teens had sex. The girl's boyfriend found out so she said it was rape. Really messed up the boy's life; he was arrested.

[AlexSatan]

53. Yep

Those are the cases I'm familiar with--girl sleeps with guy, boyfriend/husband finds out, she claims rape. I also know of a case where the girl got pregnant while in high school and claims she was raped but has no interest in pressing charges.

[bluestateguy]

15. Duke Lacrosse case

And there is even still a small faction of holdouts here who defend that woman and continue to justify the witchhunt against the students.

[marions ghost]

17. Very rare

I think a case could be made that it never happens to smart men.

[one_voice]

18. Sure..

for many reasons.

Just like many people look at a woman and judge her. Making up their mind that she wasn't raped based on her history, the way she looks, etc.

People also think certain types of men would never rape a woman and certain types of woman 'can't' be raped, like a prostitute.

Sorry went off on a tangent there, but to your original question, yes a woman could and would falsely accuse someone of rape. I think the two most common reasons--aside from some type of mental problem--would be 1)revenge and 2) to cover a consensual sexual episode (multiple reason to cover)--saying it was rape.

Thing is they could really fuck up someone's life doing that.

[glacierbay]

22. Tawana Brawley

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawana_Brawley

Tawana Brawley (born 1972) is an African-American woman from Wappingers Falls, New York. In 1987, at the age of 15, she received national media attention in the United States for falsely accusing six white men, some of whom were police officers, of having raped her. The accusations soon earned her notoriety, which was inflamed by Brawley's advisers (including the Reverend Al Sharpton and attorneys Alton H. Maddox and C. Vernon Mason), the statements of various public officials, and intense media attention.[1] After hearing evidence, a grand jury concluded in October 1988 that Brawley had not been the victim of a forcible sexual assault and that she herself may have created the appearance of an attack.[2] The New York prosecutor whom Brawley had accused as one of her alleged assailants successfully sued Brawley and her three advisers for defamation.[3]

Brawley initially received considerable support from the African-American community.[4] Some scholars suggested that Brawley was victimized by biased reporting that adhered to racial stereotypes.[5][6] The mainstream media's coverage drew heated criticism from the African-American press and leaders for its treatment of the teenager.[7] The grand jury's conclusions decreased support for Brawley and her advisers. Brawley's family has maintained that the allegations were true.

It happens, but not often at all.

[LisaLynne]

24. Since women are actually people and ...

some individuals do some inexplicable things sometimes, sure, it happens.

However, not nearly as often as some would believe and certainly not often enough for it to be assumed, as many do.

[Lightbulb_on]

67. Only in the sense of innocent until proven guilty...

There has to be credible evidence that it occurred, which sadly there may not be sometimes.

[Mike Daniels]

25. Tawana Brawley and the Duke University stripper didn't have any reservations

about falsely accusing multiple someones of rape.

Both were psychologically troubled women - Brawley apparently made her claims in order to escape punishment for being out late at night.

The stripper may have just thought "easy payday" without considering the fact that her claims were also going to be investigated as well.

[Drale]

26. Yes because whether its a women or a man they are still human

and at times humans will do anything for attention.

[Zorra]

27. I know of one case where a person with malicious vindictive intentions

definitely falsely accused another person of rape.

Proving that a person is falsely accusing another person of rape is tricky, and prosecutors are reluctant to charge anyone with this crime unless there is enough tangible evidence to prove false accusation. And courts don't like these types of cases because they can act as a deterrent to people who genuinely were raped from coming forward with the allegations.

Being raped is often devastating.

The mere accusation of rape is often devastating to any innocent individual who is falsely accused of rape as well.

The individual I know who was falsely accused or rape had their life and everything completely ripped away from them. The accused person was never charged, there was no evidence except the accusers word, and in deposition the accuser proved to be a liar (which is something I already knew about this person) and the judge at the dismissal hearing sternly warned the accuser to cease and desist or they would be prosecuted. The accuser didn't give a shit, they had already gotten everything they wanted out of their dirty deed.

The accused tried to file charges and was talked out of it by deputies, who basically told the person what I wrote in the first paragraph above. The accused did not pursue the matter any further, because they were literally already too completely shattered to even function.

I know all this because I helped the accused with legal work. (No, I'm not an attorney or paralegal, just someone who is reasonably literate, and fairly decent at researching, and the accused was my friend, and I knew the accuser as well, and I knew what was going on).

That said, I'm very sure that the overwhelming majority of rape allegations are genuine in fact.

[seabeyond]

28. facts: fbi and englands counterpart both state false rape 2-3%. extremely low.

does it happen? yes.

for the most part, a woman is putting themselves in a horrible situation reporting rape. no fun in it. odds are she will not be believed, or the police wont act on it. then further hardship to get it to court for a gruelling session of victim blaming to probably not get a conviction.

hardly seems worth it.

and in fact, it seldom happens.

[WinniSkipper]

38. You think 2-3% is low?

You are saying that 1 out of 50 to one out of 33 is "low".

[seabeyond]

41. yes, out of a 100, i think the number 2 and 3 are low. also per FBI 30-70% of rape NOT

reported.

so if you take all rape that actually happens, the percentage would be much lower. like 1% or less.

[WinniSkipper]

44. I think with those statistics..

Last edited Mon Nov 26, 2012, 06:15 PM - Edit history (1)

prosecutors must be at a HUGE disadvantage.

I would like to know what some of the attorneys think here. If I were a defense attorney - I would think those stats would be very useful for creating an element of reasonable doubt right at the start of trial.

ETA - changed 'fantastic' to 'very useful'. Not the right adjective to use here.

[seabeyond]

49. well, that is about vomit invoking. nt

[WinniSkipper]

55. Not sure what that's supposed to mean

But maybe a member who is a defense attorney (or prosecutor) can enlighten here. I have no idea whether a statistic like that would be a difficulty to the prosecution or a boon to the defense - but I would be very interested to hear their opinions.

I would think that, if your statistics are accurate, it certainly does not help the prosecution.

[gollygee]

54. Why don't we just make rape legal?

that would simplify things, eh?

[WinniSkipper]

57. I think the answer is

because it is a hideous crime, and we generally make those against the law.

[markpkessinger]

71. Such statistics would never be permitted as evidence in a trial. . .

. . . because evidence presented must pertain to the actual case at bar.

[WinniSkipper]

73. Thanks for the reply.

That makes sense to this layman.

[snooper2]

62. Try a VoIP call with 2-3% packet loss

[LittlestStar]

82. I know several girls/women who have been raped and none reported it.

Usually it happens to teens, and the girls are more worried about their parents finding out than the fact that they have been raped. It is sick. Or in some cases, it was stepfathers, and they were afraid to tell their Mom. Even sicker.

[seabeyond]

84. or self blame. or feel wont be believed. or humiliated and just want to forget. yes.

i can think of a number of reasons females do not report. this thread being a good indicator. and this particular poster giving a clue to the mentality that makes it so hard.

[liberal_at_heart]

42. and yet the vail of suspicion and doubt is cast on 100% of victims

Thank you for posting the statistics on this.

[seabeyond]

50. yes, and take note of the realitively new du member jumping up with glee, accusing rape victims

of falsely accusing on stand because that number represents a pass for the rapist in his view.

[WinniSkipper]

52. At least you are consistent with your hyperbole. NT

[pnwmom]

29. There's at least one published NIH research study that says "yes," a woman might.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8135653

Abstract
With the cooperation of the police agency of a small metropolitan community, 45 consecutive, disposed, false rape allegations covering a 9 year period were studied. These false rape allegations constitute 41% the total forcible rape cases (n = 109) reported during this period. These false allegations appear to serve three major functions for the complainants: providing an alibi, seeking revenge, and obtaining sympathy and attention. False rape allegations are not the consequence of a gender-linked aberration, as frequently claimed, but reflect impulsive and desperate efforts to cope with personal and social stress situations.

[Taverner]

33. 41%???????

Did I read that right?

41% of all forcible rape cases???

[justiceischeap]

37. In one "small metropolitan community"

not nationwide.

[pnwmom]

40. I was shocked at that, too.

But I no longer think it's as extremely rare as I used to. Mentally disturbed people like the Duke accuser, men and women, are capable of a lot of behaviors healthy people wouldn't engage in.

This SLATE writer says the research "converges" at a false rate of 8-10%.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2009/10/how_often_do_women_falsely_cry_rape.html

Rumney's smart debunkings leave us with a group of American, British, Canadian, and New Zealand studies that converge around a rate of 8 percent to 10 percent for false reports of rape. Not all of these studies are flawless, but together they're better than the rest of the lot. They include a massive 1997 report on sexual assault by the U.S. Department of Justice, which includes data from 16,000 local, county, and state law enforcement agencies. The DoJ found that "in 1995, 87% of recorded forcible rapes were completed crimes and the remainder were classified as attempts. Law enforcement agencies indicated that about 8% of forcible rapes reported to them were determined to be unfounded and were excluded from the count of crimes."

[HiPointDem]

30. yes. i don't see how anyone could think otherwise.

[ohiosmith]

31. A recent case:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/05/ex-football-player-wrongly-jailed-for-rape-wants-money-from-state.html

A former high school football star who had his rape conviction dismissed plans no legal action against the woman who recanted the sexual assault claim she made 10 years ago.

But Brian Banks, 26, does plan to file a claim against the state, seeking money for his time behind bars, his attorney said.

"We do not plan on taking any legal action against Gibson," said Banks' attorney, Justin Brooks of the California Innocence Project, referring to Banks' accuser, Wanetta Gibson. "We do plan on filing a state claim for the $100 a day Brian is entitled to under State Law 4900 for every day he was wrongfully incarcerated."

Gibson was a high school sophomore when she accused Banks of raping her at Long Beach Poly High School. She and her family sued the school, receiving a $750,000 settlement, and Banks spent five years in prison after pleading no contest to forcible rape.

[joeybee12]

59. Almost ruined his life, so even if the number are low, lying about rape

can have devastating consequences.

[Warpy]

32. It happens. Women are not saints.

However, the false accusations are vastly outnumbered by the true ones. And don't forget, many rapes go unreported because of all the shame attached to being raped even today.

Also, don't forget that some rapes are anal or oral.

[Taverner]

35. Not saying they are - but I wanted to ask this question in a non-threatening way

[bluedigger]

34. It's in the range of known human behavior.

Men, too, for that matter. Why even ask?

[Taverner]

36. I wanted to ask this question in a non-threatening way

[uppityperson]

39. "ever"? Of course. "ever" is a word that of course gets a yes answer.

never ever always are all qualifying words that are most oftenly inaccurate.

And a problem with exams is rape isn't always violent enough to tear skin, etc.

[Nye Bevan]

43. Several DUers believe that *two* women are falsely accusing Julian Assange (nt)

[JoePhilly]

45. Yes. I know because of the wording of your question.

Let's imagine you are constructing a "True / False" test. There is a statement, and one needs to decide if the statement is "True" or "False".

When confronted with such a test, a smart test taker watches for certain words. Words like "always", "never" are clear give-a-ways. These words, create a situation in which something "always" happens, or "never" happens.

When such words are applied to human behavior, they fail. As does your use of the word "ever" in this OP. What you have basically said is that a woman would "never" falsely accuse someone of rape.

That construction fails. While such events are RARE, they do happen.

Here are a few comparison questions that are just as poor.

Would a woman ever kill her own children?
Would a man ever cut off his own penis?
Would a family values Republican ever commit adultery?

And so on.

[FarCenter]

46. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

This is the misquoted version of the following:

"Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned," spoken by Zara in Act III, Scene VIII.[1] (This is usually paraphrased as "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned&quot

From The Mourning Bride (1697) by William Congreve

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Congreve

[davidn3600]

47. Yes it has happened

But today, women are not as likely to get away with it and doesn't go very far. In the past police and prosecutors always used to give the woman a benefit of the doubt in such situations. Now they are more trained to look for red flags in the woman's story. Any investigator with a brain to pick apart a completely fabricated story. It eventually starts to look like that Duke Lacrosse case where the story details just doesn't match up with anything else.

Prosecutors usually will not bring charges in a case where there is no evidence and no witnesses and the only thing to go on is the woman's word. The reason why is because the man's defense attorney will tear that woman apart in trial. And juries today don't like to convict people without something backing up the accuser's story.

[Cleita]

48. I never knew one who did, but it seems to have been done at times in the past in the

South when a white woman got pregnant by a black man. Some women would say they were raped because at the time sex between the races was forbidden. Also, if a woman was brutally gang raped and couldn't identify her attackers, often it was blamed on black or hispanic men even though not true. As far as sex that could have been forcible but there is no proof, it unfortunately does fall into the category of he said, she said. Often this is why women won't report date rape because it blurs into something that would make what happened after the rape almost as bad as the rape itself and there would be no real proof.

I had a friend who had a somewhat slutty reputation, nothing she denied. She slept with different men, like one night stands, willingly. She was raped by a married man, and she knew his wife. He raped her because of her slutty reputation. She didn't want to report it because she figured by the time lawyers got through going through her past she wouldn't have a case anyway. She did tell his wife though and that ended the marriage so she got closure of some sort.

[Upton]

51. Brian Banks spent 5 years in prison..

and it cost him his football career, because of a false rape allegation..

http://abcnews.go.com/US/rising-football-star-brian-banks-exonerated-rape-case/story?id=16424770

[brewens]

56. My next door neighbor falsely claimed rape but didn't accuse anyone specifically. It got me

rousted out of bed by the cops and questioned though. I had a poker game earlier and she told them it was a party. The cops looked me over and I didn't match her description fortunately. Neither did any of me guests.

A guy staying in a motor home a block away that I knew did match the description. He never occurred to me at the time and I don't know who told the cops about him. He ended up downtown being interrogated.

The girl had mental problems and it turned out her and her boyfriend broke a window getting into her apartment when she locked herself out. She concocted that story to avoid getting in trouble with the woman that owned her apartment building. I shit you not. Just for that.

[Marrah_G]

58. Yes, but it is rare

and not all rape leave marks.

[Bucky]

60. It's a rarity. Usually such false complaints come from women with stability issues.

[Separation]

61. My stepfather was.

By my sister when she was 12. She was angry at him for whatever reason and lied. Let me tell you it was not fun for any of us. He was active duty and was removed from the house. Me and my brother were given a physical because she said he did it to us as well. It was pretty damn humiliating. Only after a week did her story start to fall apart. Needless to say the marriage didn't last long after that.

[11 Bravo]

63. Yes. Because it has happened. There are documented instances of women ...

who have falsely accused a man of rape, and then later recanted their testimony. Some of them have been charged and convicted with making a false accusation. It's rare, but yeah, it happens.

[patrice]

65. Pew Research has researched changing attitudes toward pregnancies outside of

marriage, attitudes that may be changing in a positive direction.

Putting myself hypothetically in such a position, one way to "explain" such a baby may be to directly claim rape or to at least imply that intercourse was un-intended but happened anyway because __________________ .

That said, it would stand to reason that this cohort would be so small as to be "insignificant" in the broader picture. I do think, though, that the emotional nature of this particular accusation would result in a particularly durable enneagram in the zeitgeist despite the miniscule population it represents.

One thing that I'd consider if I were going to look into this further would be to find out the incidence of Borderline Personality Disorder in the general population. Authentic, clinically diagnosed, Borderline Personality Disorder and the various degrees thereof, as I understand it, is reliably characterized by constantly and universally manipulative behaviors.

[zazen]

66. ratio of false:accurate accusations is also problematic

I'm sure someone else here can state this more clearly than I. But, by definition, the person claiming false rape is publicizing their case. That's the whole point.

But most rapes aren't reported. I haven't reported the date rape attempts I've experienced since age 14 (I think 4?). It's not worth it. No one would believe you. You'd get blamed. Humiliated all over again. You want the person out of your life. You figure it's not worth it. Most women I know have had at least one experience like this.

So, that 41% statistic upthread about the percentage of accusations that are false? That's because most rapes are never reported and don't end up in the "accusation" pool.

BTW, I so want to strangle women who make false accusations.

There are also women who make false accusations of battery so they can do "shelter hopping," as I recall from my battered women's movement days. They screw it up for everyone else.

I have zero patience for that. There are so many women who are seriously hurting and these selfish, undisciplined people make it that much more difficult for real rape victims to be believed.

[Ohio Joe]

68. My thoughts... If you insist

I think this is a seriously shitty thread that has no other purpose then to cast doubt on any woman's claim of rape.

[MadrasT]

70. +1 This thread serves no other purpose. n/t

[chaska]

69. Are you kidding me? It happens every day!

Probably dozens (at least) of times. Women are no more saints than men, and they lie just as much.

[sarcasmo]

72. My old roommate had it happen to him. She did 45 days for false accusation.

Come to find out, her husband caught her cheating and she went with the rape excuse.

[Odin2005]

74. This is gonna be a flame-war.

[treestar]

75. Yeah, I don't see it as being worth it at all

Though in a bad dating/break up situation it might be possible with the woman not realizing how hard it's going to be. People unfamiliar with the legal system think it works simply like on TV and don't realize how much they'd have to go through and just how much trouble it can be.

So yeah it could be possible with some who are of lower intelligence, especially emotional, who think they will be getting one over on the guy. Like divorces - people have all kinds of clever ideas about how they think they can make life miserable for the other party, and don't realize these ideas will just make life miserable for themselves.

[arely staircase]

77. no, never

in fact this is the only crime i can think of in which there really is no need for an expensive trial that re traumatizes the victim. accusation should suffice.

[TrueBlueinCO]

79. Are you high?

False accusations of rape happen all the time.

[TrueBlueinCO]

78. Is this a serious question???

It happens frequently.

Here is the most recent example that I can think of. The false accuser didn't need to go through a rape kit or anything.

http://www.examiner.com/article/governor-pardons-innocent-man-who-spent-4-years-jail-accuser-recanted-story

[LisaL]

81. ITA. Unless somebody has been living under a rock, I fail to see how

somebody wouldn't know an answer to this question.

[Taverner]

89. Because if I asked the question any other way, vitriol and hate would spew

And the spewage would be focused on your humble narrator...

[Lil Missy]

80. Not nearly as often as a man would falsely deny raping sombody

[Taverner]

88. Good Point...very good point

I would bet that 99.7% of all accused say "wasn't me"

And even at the unbelievable high number of 41% falsely claiming rape (I have problems with that number) it's still nothing compared to the denials.

[tabasco]

85. Ugly divorces

Mom gets daughter to say Daddy did bad things.

It happens.

[JimDandy]

87. Oh lord I'm going to go there:

Mary did.

Hey, I'm an atheist.