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bigtree

(86,013 posts)
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 09:44 AM Mar 15

I'm going to say it, and you can place yourself where you want on this

...your choice, not mine.

The internet is full of trolls calling for Garland to resign this morning.

The complaints took off after the exoneration by Hur, sparked by people who think it's more important to highlight the salacious things Hur included in the report and set hair on fire over them, instead of highlighting the exoneration as the president did, and move on.

Yesterday DA Bragg wrote an order delaying the hush money trial and said in as clear language as anyone can read that "the timing of the USAO's productions is the result solely of the defendant's delay."

Instead of blaming Trump for the delay, as the DA clearly did in that order, a mantra was started on the internet that U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland was responsible for supposedly waiting a year to dump the documents this week.

Never mind that Bragg cited SDNY as the branch responsible for filling out discovery motions.

Never mind that the AG doesn't monitor the discovery processes of state prosecutions, or that the AG exercising that kind of heavyhanded oversight would make a lie out of any assertion that those prosecutions are completely separate from the man Trump's political rival in this election appointed.

The calls this morning for Merrick Garland to resign are just off the hook, and I've been participating in social media for long enough to know when I see deliberate propaganda.

It's not enough to defend our own personal reasons for opposing the AG by stating the obvious right to do so. it should come with some reason or logic that stands up to the fact that this man is still following through with the process of accountability which began in the Fall of 2021with the hiring of Tom Windom to investigate the Trump WH (this investigator still active in court today on the election interference charges).

When you come for the AG of a president who has NEVER said ONE WORD of complaint against him, it should be expected that you come with something more than an internet meme.

When you come at the AG who's not only responsible for prosecuting over a 1000 white supremacist, Trump-supporting Capitol rioters, but hired the man who brought two multi-felony indictments against the former president you need to come with more than absurd charges that he's a 'republican mole,' or maga or any of the other denigrating things people feel free to throw at him in front of his efforts.

And, remember... do remember. There are plenty of people who don't share our interest in justice who have been dragging President Biden's AG, the man who prosecuted them, for years now.

How in the world do people making these calls for his resignation think they are received on the other side? I mean....



Right?

155 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I'm going to say it, and you can place yourself where you want on this (Original Post) bigtree Mar 15 OP
Excellent post, bigtree. Thank you! brer cat Mar 15 #1
Nailed it as always malaise Mar 15 #2
If you're happy with our side scrambling for trial dates in 2024 while a second Trump term remains distinctly possible BeyondGeography Mar 15 #3
I only see a lot of sandbaggers on MOMFUDSKI Mar 15 #4
Thank you. Elessar Zappa Mar 15 #5
Bragg clearly blamed BOTH... getagrip_already Mar 15 #6
What you see as an apologist, others see as defending not a man, but reality. Nt Fiendish Thingy Mar 15 #8
What was it kelly conway said about reality? getagrip_already Mar 15 #9
That's just the thing, there are no alternative facts in this situation Fiendish Thingy Mar 15 #17
Garland was clueless, which IS the problem getagrip_already Mar 15 #19
"Clueless" is your opinion. Fiendish Thingy Mar 15 #20
But none are as easy! BootinUp Mar 15 #22
A tangled web, indeed. Ocelot II Mar 15 #43
IMO Garland has been a poor AG, didn't rise to the moment of the most severe threatl... brush Mar 15 #78
Laurence Tribe now calls Garland "Mr. Speedy" BeyondGeography Mar 15 #79
Laurence Tribe is correct. It's funny yet maddening sarcasm as... brush Mar 15 #85
Sarcasm, no? (no text) returnee Mar 15 #97
And yet Laurence Tribe isn't always right NanaCat Mar 15 #103
That is a false statement Fiendish Thingy Mar 15 #94
Late in appointing SC Smith even. Should've done it a year earlier. brush Mar 15 #101
You clearly don't understand what justifies appointing a Special Counsel Fiendish Thingy Mar 15 #109
We've all got opinions. No way I agree with yours. brush Mar 15 #112
"Just two days after trump declared his candidacy" is a red herring Goodheart Mar 16 #142
Why should a Special Counsel have been appointed sooner? Fiendish Thingy Mar 16 #144
Looks like verifiable as opinions. PufPuf23 Mar 15 #107
Note: the link contains a list of verifiable facts and dates. Fiendish Thingy Mar 15 #110
Did not read article, just humored by link title. PufPuf23 Mar 15 #115
Well said and thanks for that post. emulatorloo Mar 15 #90
Nah, yr just blaming anybody and everyone EXCEPT Trump and his legal team. emulatorloo Mar 15 #89
An incontrovertible inconvenient fact: Bobstandard Mar 15 #10
Andrew Weissmann worked for SDNY gab13by13 Mar 15 #13
I saw that interview... getagrip_already Mar 15 #18
The internet/social media creates an insatiable, impatient hunger for quick and simple solutions Fiendish Thingy Mar 15 #7
You nailed it. ShazzieB Mar 15 #44
Where I get my news I see zero people calling for Garland to resign. gab13by13 Mar 15 #11
Agreed. ShazzieB Mar 15 #56
Garland has been an unmitigated disaster. Voltaire2 Mar 15 #12
you know the people in that song Trump plays before his rallies? The 'Jan. 6 Singers?' bigtree Mar 15 #32
Well put. The OP is distractive from the REAL issue with Garland Goodheart Mar 15 #116
The internet needs solutions and scapegoats and it needs them NOW. Ocelot II Mar 15 #14
I respect your opinions and always click on your posts gab13by13 Mar 15 #24
I don't think calling for his head is helpful at this point. Ocelot II Mar 15 #30
I could not agree more, gab13by13 Mar 15 #34
Because if he resigned the trolls wouldn't be able to call for his head on a daily basis AZSkiffyGeek Mar 15 #104
The frustration by some is not so much NOW but long it has been and PufPuf23 Mar 15 #118
Let's just say I'd much prefer a new Attorney General... dchill Mar 15 #15
And Glenn Kirschner is just the man for the job. Ligyron Mar 15 #60
Hindsight is 20/20. nt hay rick Mar 15 #16
Hang in there, bigtree Hekate Mar 15 #21
I agree, bigtree. Joe, unlike his predecessor, really DOES pick the best people! 70sEraVet Mar 15 #23
100% I disagreed with his choice of Hur and I think that is allowed but I have never been Bev54 Mar 15 #25
Do you honestly believe in your heart gab13by13 Mar 15 #36
I don't agree with everything Garland has done and in particular the Hur appointment and the lack of cleanout of Bev54 Mar 15 #75
. Scrivener7 Mar 15 #26
.. bigtree Mar 15 #35
I remember the days of the torches and pitchforks that came out for Eric Holder BumRushDaShow Mar 15 #27
Preet Bhrarara, gab13by13 Mar 15 #40
I watched Andrew Weissmann last night too BumRushDaShow Mar 15 #53
Is Garland allowed to choose his team or is he forced to deal with corrupt trump leftovers? ecstatic Mar 15 #102
There are a certain lower layer of positions that the Department (and agency head) can "choose" BumRushDaShow Mar 15 #113
Thank for setting it straight. Excellent post. Martin68 Mar 15 #28
Firing Garland at this time would be a bad idea. But only because it's just too late. His duty is already done. jaxexpat Mar 15 #29
Politics is a nasty, dirty business Dyedinthewoolliberal Mar 15 #31
Yup. Agree. My only question is why Garland Joinfortmill Mar 15 #33
Your question actually points to a larger question . . . markpkessinger Mar 15 #67
The idea that you have condemnation for moniss Mar 15 #37
I admit blaming Bragg for sabatoging his own prosecution of Trump didn't occur to me bigtree Mar 15 #41
It certainly looks to me like President Biden is upset with Merrick Garland gab13by13 Mar 15 #45
Unless you're having WH luncheons with Joe, your perception is based on one anonymously sourced article. Fiendish Thingy Mar 15 #65
You can put that right in line with the fact that moniss Mar 15 #62
Wow, very interesting analysis. gab13by13 Mar 15 #42
Yes and even Vance moniss Mar 15 #69
I don't think Garland should resign, BUT . . . markpkessinger Mar 15 #38
I'm old enough to remember when the complaints were that he didn't need a SC bigtree Mar 15 #47
I think you're reacting rather strongly... Think. Again. Mar 15 #39
ask the questions and bring your receipts bigtree Mar 15 #48
But I have no questions for you. Think. Again. Mar 15 #58
This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Mar 15 #66
That's funny because your post ends in a question mark AZSkiffyGeek Mar 15 #128
Oh, you mean this rhetorical question... Think. Again. Mar 16 #138
I'm just commenting on the fact you asked a question AZSkiffyGeek Mar 16 #146
Such fun! now look up "Rhetorical Question"! Think. Again. Mar 16 #149
Garland has limited influence over the SDNY Cosmocat Mar 15 #46
Merrick Garland is SDNY's boss. gab13by13 Mar 15 #57
But the 93 U.S. Attorneys are NOT the AG's appointees BumRushDaShow Mar 15 #61
He still runs the show... Think. Again. Mar 15 #70
"He still runs the show..." BumRushDaShow Mar 15 #72
I'm pretty sure... Think. Again. Mar 15 #73
"that any work the DOJ is doing that directly involves an ex-President will find it's way onto garland's update memos" BumRushDaShow Mar 15 #74
I MUST disagree... Think. Again. Mar 15 #77
To respond BumRushDaShow Mar 15 #83
Yeah, people here on DU sometimes seem very happy.... Think. Again. Mar 15 #84
"I suspect the prosecution of a Presidential candidate might be high on the AG's concern list." BumRushDaShow Mar 15 #86
"Justice delayed is justice denied." Think. Again. Mar 15 #87
That has been the call from those who want Criminal Justice Reform BumRushDaShow Mar 15 #91
See? We can agree!!! Think. Again. Mar 15 #92
But it has nothing to do with Garland. BumRushDaShow Mar 15 #93
That's true, we don't agree on garland.... Think. Again. Mar 15 #95
"Criminal Justice" is not just "federal" BumRushDaShow Mar 15 #96
If you're saying garland is just a figurehead... Think. Again. Mar 15 #98
Again BumRushDaShow Mar 15 #99
Okay, well thanks, I don't really get what you're trying to say, but I appreciate the discussion. Think. Again. Mar 15 #105
The OP would have you believe, apparently, that these SDNY documents are the only cause that has provoked anger, Goodheart Mar 15 #119
Public pressure can be tough. lees1975 Mar 15 #49
You are spreading falsehoods Fiendish Thingy Mar 15 #64
Sorry, but he admitted to delays himself. lees1975 Mar 15 #106
no receipts, so it didn't happen bigtree Mar 15 #121
Attorney General Merrick Garland deliberated for weeks over whether to approve the application for a warrant to search f republianmushroom Mar 15 #124
Maybe you mean this one. republianmushroom Mar 15 #126
See my reply to big tree below your post. republianmushroom Mar 15 #125
A year? Closer to two years... twenty months, in fact. Goodheart Mar 16 #141
Detailed Chronology in Trump-Cohen Hush Money Investigation SARose Mar 15 #50
consult the master computer on 1/6 AllaN01Bear Mar 15 #51
There's a lot of people right now that I am pissed at here. William769 Mar 15 #52
Recommended. H2O Man Mar 15 #54
...... 58Sunliner Mar 15 #55
a little bit plagiarism here, but, republianmushroom Mar 15 #59
Will be thrilled to see him resign, or be fired. boston bean Mar 15 #63
Right!! lamp_shade Mar 15 #68
How many times did Jordan and Comer threaten Bragg? SARose Mar 15 #71
I don't care how the other side receives me, or either side for that matter. It's past time for Garland to go. Autumn Mar 15 #76
This obsession displayed by some with Garland is truly disturbing, it does not seem at all healthy. tritsofme Mar 15 #80
Garland has always been at a disadvantage... allegorical oracle Mar 15 #81
You can't get rid of Garland before the election, but we absolutely should after the election. Demsrule86 Mar 15 #82
The idea that Garland would want to stick around for 8 years in the first place is pretty silly. tritsofme Mar 15 #88
I understand your point. Fully. But the problem is he put our country in jeopardy ecstatic Mar 15 #100
it's just untrue that he waited for anything bigtree Mar 15 #108
Wow, talk about a strawman Goodheart Mar 15 #120
Donald Trump's first criminal trial delayed SARose Mar 15 #111
The one FACT you continue to la la la gloss over Goodheart Mar 15 #114
A few dates, upon which to adequately assess Garland's performance Goodheart Mar 15 #117
Cherry-picking only the dates that support one's assertion... TwilightZone Mar 15 #123
I picked the dates that matter. Goodheart Mar 15 #127
Nah, it's called ignoring whatever doesn't fit the narrative. TwilightZone Mar 16 #136
You're quite wrong, of course. Goodheart Mar 16 #140
Did you see this list upthread BumRushDaShow Mar 16 #145
Jack Smith was appointed TWENTY MONTHS after the insurrection. Goodheart Mar 16 #147
"Jack Smith was appointed TWENTY MONTHS after the insurrection." BumRushDaShow Mar 16 #151
Some of the ignorance is intentional. TwilightZone Mar 15 #122
Looks to me like much projection. nt PufPuf23 Mar 15 #129
Nope. TwilightZone Mar 15 #130
Garland should have started prosecutions of tRump 15 minutes after being appointed to the office. rwild1967 Mar 15 #131
Correct. Goodheart Mar 15 #132
he's sworn in in March 2021 and by Fall of 2021 he's already investigating bigtree Mar 15 #134
The proof is in the pudding. Here's the pudding: Goodheart Mar 16 #148
Kick canetoad Mar 15 #133
Sorry but your wrong thumper2547 Mar 16 #135
Welcome to DU! KS Toronado Mar 16 #137
The apologists will come along to declare you a troll, Goodheart Mar 16 #139
Welcome to DU LetMyPeopleVote Mar 16 #150
Great post! Emile Mar 17 #154
K&R Emile Mar 17 #155
Biden shouldn't accept a resignation now Captain Zero Mar 16 #143
Ali Primera once crooned... GreenWave Mar 16 #152
Trump tried to overthrow our government and Emile Mar 17 #153

BeyondGeography

(39,391 posts)
3. If you're happy with our side scrambling for trial dates in 2024 while a second Trump term remains distinctly possible
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 09:57 AM
Mar 15

Then I’d say you need to hold our side to higher standards.

It did not have to be this way.

getagrip_already

(14,929 posts)
6. Bragg clearly blamed BOTH...
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 10:04 AM
Mar 15

It's the apologists who choose to only see that he is only blaming trumps team.

Fact: Bragg subpoenad the same materials, and was denied at least a year earlier.

Fact: The sdny asked for, and received multiple extentions from trumps team to produce the materials since January

The SDNY has no excuses here. They have unilaterally impacted the court schedule, and it is obvious given their history with this case it was intentional.

Was Garland "directly" involved? No. But he failed to govern this clearly politically biased office. So he is directly responsible.

You are an apologist, which is your right.

Just please don't misrepresent what was said and done.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,693 posts)
17. That's just the thing, there are no alternative facts in this situation
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 10:35 AM
Mar 15

Just cherry picked facts and opinions masquerading as facts (especially those opinions claiming to know, with certainty, Garland’s intentions and state of mind).

getagrip_already

(14,929 posts)
19. Garland was clueless, which IS the problem
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 10:42 AM
Mar 15

He should have locked down this office a long time ago. It is overtly political.

But you are trying to obfuscate the issue. The SDNY dumped these documents intentionally to disrupt the trial.

Bragg said it. He also said trump assisted them. But it was the SDNY that did it.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,693 posts)
20. "Clueless" is your opinion.
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 10:48 AM
Mar 15

See my thread on the various possible reasons (8 of them!) for SDNY’s delay in turning over the files, with a link to emptywheel’s in depth analysis of each potential reason for delay.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218779638

There is much, much, more to this story than “Garland is clueless”.

brush

(53,960 posts)
78. IMO Garland has been a poor AG, didn't rise to the moment of the most severe threatl...
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 02:36 PM
Mar 15

to our democracy since the Civil War.

Repeat, since the Civil War, and we all saw it on TV, yet more than 3 years later trump has yet to be tried. Garland was late moving in so many ways.

brush

(53,960 posts)
85. Laurence Tribe is correct. It's funny yet maddening sarcasm as...
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 03:09 PM
Mar 15

his "speediness" has impacted the nation in such a way that trump could escape completely unscathed by winning the election.

Not good.

brush

(53,960 posts)
101. Late in appointing SC Smith even. Should've done it a year earlier.
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 05:18 PM
Mar 15

Going after the principal planners of the attempted coup of the United States government should've been top priority...the snall fry who stormed the building...pick them up in due course as the video evidence of them invading the Capitol will always be there.

Garland didn't rise to moment of the most severe threat to the nation since the Civil War. And the fact that trump, more than 3 years later, has still not been tried, is testament that the AG has not served the nation well.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,693 posts)
109. You clearly don't understand what justifies appointing a Special Counsel
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 05:53 PM
Mar 15

Smith was appointed at exactly the right moment, just two days after Trump legally declared his candidacy .

You also appear to not understand the roles and powers of a Special Counsel.

A Special Counsel is not faster, more aggressive or more powerful than a regular prosecutor.

The “Special” refers to an special administrative “bubble” that exists to avoid legal and ethical conflicts, that’s it.

brush

(53,960 posts)
112. We've all got opinions. No way I agree with yours.
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 06:02 PM
Mar 15

Last edited Fri Mar 15, 2024, 06:43 PM - Edit history (1)

Garland didn't even have to appoint a special counsel, so WTH are you going on about he appointed Smith at the perfect time?

Garland should've prioritized the J6 case himself as soon as he was settled in office. trump declaring for president should've had no bearing on it at all. The fact that the MFer tried to overthrow the government should've governed the DOJ itself taking on the case.

Goodheart

(5,351 posts)
142. "Just two days after trump declared his candidacy" is a red herring
Sat Mar 16, 2024, 08:25 AM
Mar 16

There is no such legal requirement that an AG has to wait for someone to declare a candidacy in order to be investigated for crimes.

It was almost TWO YEARS after trump blatantly incited an insurrection, and almost exactly two years before he planned it, before Garland appointed Jack Smith. Inexcusable.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,693 posts)
144. Why should a Special Counsel have been appointed sooner?
Sat Mar 16, 2024, 10:32 AM
Mar 16

Special Counsels are not faster, more aggressive, or more powerful.

“Special” simply means they operate in an administrative “bubble” to protect against legal and ethical conflicts, like when the AG of a sitting president prosecutes his likely opponent in the next election. (No candidacy, no conflict, no need for a Special Counsel).

Fiendish Thingy

(15,693 posts)
110. Note: the link contains a list of verifiable facts and dates.
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 05:55 PM
Mar 15

You apparently didn’t read the article.

Feel free to refute any of the factual assertions made in the article.

Bobstandard

(1,329 posts)
10. An incontrovertible inconvenient fact:
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 10:22 AM
Mar 15
Was Garland "directly" involved? No. But he failed to govern this clearly politically biased office. So he is directly responsible.

gab13by13

(21,477 posts)
13. Andrew Weissmann worked for SDNY
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 10:26 AM
Mar 15

and he said what happened was gross negligence, incompetency, on SDNY's part. Weissmann also said that most likely Garland would not be involved, he would be too far up the chain of command.

getagrip_already

(14,929 posts)
18. I saw that interview...
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 10:37 AM
Mar 15

He was being very vague, but generous.

He wasn't going to say more. But you can easily see how it could just as easily be intentional, and given the departments refusal to prosecute trump on these same charges, their railroad of Michael Cohen, and their infiltration by russian intelligence, I personally believe it was very intentional.

And I agree garland was clueless. But that doesn't absolve him. It indict him. He should have locked this office down the day he came in. It is rotten to the core.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,693 posts)
7. The internet/social media creates an insatiable, impatient hunger for quick and simple solutions
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 10:05 AM
Mar 15

And the immediate crucifixion of the scapegoat who is identified as impeding that quick and simple solution.

See: The Ox-Bow Incident (written by Rod Serling IIRC)

gab13by13

(21,477 posts)
11. Where I get my news I see zero people calling for Garland to resign.
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 10:22 AM
Mar 15

A Garland resignation or firing would be a disaster for President Biden, it would be a blood bath in the MSM.

SDNY is responsible for not turning over discovery, it was incompetence on their part. Most likely Merrick Garland had no role in that incompetency, his only connection is that he is SDNY's boss.

What is in the discovery is what matters. It could be a nothingburger or a remote possibility that Bragg drops the case.


ShazzieB

(16,594 posts)
56. Agreed.
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 12:14 PM
Mar 15
SDNY is responsible for not turning over discovery, it was incompetence on their part.

Yes.

Most likely Merrick Garland had no role in that incompetency, his only connection is that he is SDNY's boss.

Agreed. Anyone who thinks that the person heading up an organization as huge and bureaucratic as the DOJ should be on top of every detail in every unit of that organization must not be familiar with how big, bureaucratic organizations function. Believe me, nobody in a position like Garland's has time for anything close to that level of micromanagement.

I know that a lot of people are already extremely upset with Garland over how close we are getting to the election with no assurance of a trial any time soon. I get that, believe me.

Unfortunately, being in that frame of mind makes it very tempting to blame him for anything and everything else that goes wrong. That's where I think some people need to get a grip.

I'm not here to defend Garland, but I don't like the way some seem to have him already tried and convicted of God knows what dastardly deeds. I don't blame anyone for having suspicions, but I feel like some are letting their frustrations over earlier decisions of Garland's run away with them. That's not helpful to anyone, imo.

Voltaire2

(13,240 posts)
12. Garland has been an unmitigated disaster.
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 10:24 AM
Mar 15

He is the General McLellan of AG.


McClellan and President Abraham Lincoln developed a mutual distrust, and McClellan was privately derisive of Lincoln. He was removed from command in November, in the aftermath of the 1862 midterm elections. A major contributing factor in this decision was McClellan's failure to pursue Lee's army following the tactically inconclusive but strategic Union victory at the Battle of Antietam outside Sharpsburg, Maryland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_B._McClellan

bigtree

(86,013 posts)
32. you know the people in that song Trump plays before his rallies? The 'Jan. 6 Singers?'
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 11:27 AM
Mar 15

...they've been calling for Garland to resign for years now.

They hug each other close and sing out from their jail cells every night about what a disaster Garland has been for them.

But to your point, Lincoln's generals were a collection of political figures as well as military ones. It was a political judgment that Lincoln made about McClellen due to the general's growing sympathies for the South, as opposed to the majority who were Republican (Lincoln party) supporters.

It's really something to read the complaints of folks who suppose our Democratic president should use his Justice Dept. like he was a general prosecuting a war, against his political opponent in this election.

It seems to me, that's what we're actually fighting this political war of ours to oppose; not embrace the politicalization of justice, but ensure against any perception or reality of such an abomination against our democracy.

Any suggestion that Biden's DOJ should be making political considerations, or making legal decisions based on an election timetable is an abomination of our democratic system of elections and should be a non-starter when judging this AG or any other.

Goodheart

(5,351 posts)
116. Well put. The OP is distractive from the REAL issue with Garland
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 06:25 PM
Mar 15

i.e. incompetent (corrupt?) delay in investigations and indictments.

Ocelot II

(115,931 posts)
14. The internet needs solutions and scapegoats and it needs them NOW.
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 10:31 AM
Mar 15

It also encourages groupthink, jerking knees and laziness. Thanks for your sensible analysis.

gab13by13

(21,477 posts)
24. I respect your opinions and always click on your posts
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 11:02 AM
Mar 15

What do you think about the reporting from Politico that claims people close to President Biden who spoke anonymously stated that President Biden is very unhappy with Merrick Garland? Presideent Biden hired Garland to bring back impartiality to the justice department. Biden stated that he didn't want Garland to be his lawyer or his Vice President's lawyer.

Don't you think that in the spirit of Garland showing his impartiality that he has gone overboard in showing that he is impartial towards Republicans which causes him to be partisan? Hiring Republican special counsels to investigate Democrats and hiring Republican special counsels to investigate Republicans? OK, Independent special counsels to investigate Republicans.

I don't like going on anonymous sources but I know that the White House was unhappy with the way Garland handled Biden's possession of classified documents.

Ocelot II

(115,931 posts)
30. I don't think calling for his head is helpful at this point.
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 11:20 AM
Mar 15

In his second term (and I believe there will be one), Biden might see fit to replace him if he is dissatisfied. Since there's often a turnover of cabinet officers at that time it could be done without any obvious political overtones, but it would not serve any useful purpose to make a change now and would serve only to raise questions, whether fairly or not, of whether and to what extent the White House controls DoJ.

gab13by13

(21,477 posts)
34. I could not agree more,
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 11:29 AM
Mar 15

Garland resigning or being fired would be a disaster for President Biden, I posted there would be a blood bath in the MSM media.

I am just making the point that people like me get criticized for criticizing Garland when I believe in my heart that President Biden is very upset with Garland. I know that White House lawyers were livid at the Hur report.

AZSkiffyGeek

(11,131 posts)
104. Because if he resigned the trolls wouldn't be able to call for his head on a daily basis
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 05:26 PM
Mar 15

While praising Trump’s genius.

PufPuf23

(8,845 posts)
118. The frustration by some is not so much NOW but long it has been and
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 06:38 PM
Mar 15

experience of the last 50 years of evidence that justice is unfair or lacking for wealthy and connected individuals.

You have not seen me calling for Garland to be fired. Seems drastic and further destabilizing. Maybe we will find out one day what is really happening. I did not want Garland as USSC nor AG when considered and appointed. No way is Garland stupid nor naive in any shape or form.

dchill

(38,583 posts)
15. Let's just say I'd much prefer a new Attorney General...
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 10:32 AM
Mar 15

...for Biden's next term. It's the usual thing, I believe.

70sEraVet

(3,529 posts)
23. I agree, bigtree. Joe, unlike his predecessor, really DOES pick the best people!
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 11:00 AM
Mar 15

Bringing a former President to trial for crimes committed during or in the immediate aftermath of that Presidency, launches our judiciary system into new and probably uncharted territory! It BETTER be done RIGHT, rather than hastily!

Bev54

(10,087 posts)
25. 100% I disagreed with his choice of Hur and I think that is allowed but I have never been
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 11:10 AM
Mar 15

anti Garland on the whole. The people who are anti Garland have always been, because Trump was not immediately prosecuted upon losing the presidency. That is ridiculous on its face. The proof is there for everyone to see he did start the investigation and spent the good part of over a year fighting in the courts of privilege of one kind or another to be able to get evidence from the people he needed it from.

These people who think they know better simply do not know what they do not know.

gab13by13

(21,477 posts)
36. Do you honestly believe in your heart
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 11:34 AM
Mar 15

that President Biden is happy with Merrick Garland, especially the way he handled Biden's classified document investigation?

White House attorneys were furious with the Hur report.

I'm afraid if you don't like the way people like me are criticizing Garland you may have to add Joe's name to your list.
Politico reported people close to Biden stating that Joe was very upset with Garland. If Joe's upset, so am I.

Bev54

(10,087 posts)
75. I don't agree with everything Garland has done and in particular the Hur appointment and the lack of cleanout of
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 02:21 PM
Mar 15

Trump supporters within the DOJ but I am not anti Garland as you and others have been for a very long time. Do I know if Biden is unhappy, no but he certainly has reason to be with Hur. I do know that he is pissed at Hur and his counsel requested Hur remove some of his gratuitous statements about Biden but it is also reported that Biden did not request, nor would he, that Garland only make public certain portions with redactions. I don't agree with everything Biden has done or not done either but that does not mean I am out there telling him to step down or not run. I agree with most of what he does.

What I take issue with is everyone who has been on Garland's ass for a very long time not investigating Trump when in fact there is ample evidence to the contrary and yet that gets dismissed by you and others.

I would suggest you read Empty Wheel's recent article on the SDNY and the article she wrote for MSNBC on Garland's investigation on Trump. It bothers me people jump to conclusions with little to no evidence and opine as if it is fact.

https://www.emptywheel.net/2024/03/15/eight-possible-explanations-many-bad-some-good-for-sdnys-delay/

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/merrick-garland-isnt-blame-delays-trumps-election-interference-case-rcna141213

BumRushDaShow

(129,842 posts)
27. I remember the days of the torches and pitchforks that came out for Eric Holder
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 11:17 AM
Mar 15

'Nuff said.

And as an additional historic note, folks need to look up WHO the U.S. Attorney for SDNY was in 2016 (i.e., it was someone much revered on DU who has been somewhat silent the past couple years).

gab13by13

(21,477 posts)
40. Preet Bhrarara,
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 11:42 AM
Mar 15

If I remember right, Trump even interviewed him about possibly keeping him on.

What's the point?

I would guess that former SDNY employees would be averse to criticizing the department. Andrew Weissmann criticized it though.

BumRushDaShow

(129,842 posts)
53. I watched Andrew Weissmann last night too
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 12:09 PM
Mar 15

and he was trying to, knowing he is an employee of the outlet pushing the narrative, to be a realist knowing that the AG is NOT micromanaging what is going on in 93 U.S. Attorney offices. I also saw Katyal on 2 shows (where he was an alumni of that office), who was taken aback by the insinuations.

The illegal actions involving Stormy Daniels were going on while Preet was U.S. Attorney of SDNY and he was subsequently fired by then-AG Jeff Sessions (who DU has amnesia about), when he didn't go along with 45's shake downs.

He was succeeded by several people including Joon Kim (who was "acting" and had to leave the position due to the 300-day restriction for actings pending a confirmed appointee), and Geoff Berman, who was eventually fired. He was the one who wrote a book about what was going on.

Trump Pushed Officials to Prosecute His Critics, Ex-U.S. Attorney Says


By Benjamin Weiser
Sept. 8, 2022


A book by a former top federal prosecutor offers new details about how the Justice Department under President Donald J. Trump sought to use the U.S. attorney’s office in Manhattan to support Mr. Trump politically and pursue his critics — even pushing the office to open a criminal investigation of former secretary of state John Kerry.

The prosecutor, Geoffrey S. Berman, was the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York for two and a half years until June 2020, when Mr. Trump fired him after he refused a request to resign by Attorney General William P. Barr, who sought to replace him with an administration ally. A copy of Mr. Berman’s book, “Holding the Line,” was obtained by The New York Times before its scheduled publication Tuesday.

The book paints a picture of Justice Department officials motivated by partisan concerns in pursuing investigations or blocking them; in weighing how forthright to be in court filings; and in shopping investigations to other prosecutors’ offices when the Southern District declined to act.

The book contains accounts of how department officials tried to have allusions to Mr. Trump scrubbed from charging papers for Michael D. Cohen, his former personal lawyer, and how the attorney general later tried to have his conviction reversed. It tells of pressure to pursue Mr. Kerry, who had angered Mr. Trump by attempting to preserve the nuclear deal he had negotiated with Iran.

(snip)

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/08/nyregion/geoffrey-berman-trump-book.html


During this time, the Manhattan D.A. was Cyrus Vance, Jr. and all kinds of messes ensued - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-01/u-s-to-join-fight-over-manhattan-da-s-subpoena-for-trump-taxes

ALL of this WAS and STILL IS "local NY politics" and leftovers from 45's Jeff Sessions/Bill Barr DOJ and is irrelevant to Garland.

ecstatic

(32,770 posts)
102. Is Garland allowed to choose his team or is he forced to deal with corrupt trump leftovers?
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 05:22 PM
Mar 15


If the organization is corrupt, clean it up!

BumRushDaShow

(129,842 posts)
113. There are a certain lower layer of positions that the Department (and agency head) can "choose"
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 06:14 PM
Mar 15

I.e., the Schedule Bs & Schedule Cs. But certain higher levels (obviously including the agency heads under a Department) are Presidential appointment/Senate confirmation positions.

jaxexpat

(6,865 posts)
29. Firing Garland at this time would be a bad idea. But only because it's just too late. His duty is already done.
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 11:19 AM
Mar 15

He's been working for someone or something since day one. Whatever it was, it wasn't justice with an eye toward protecting the republic.

Three years later and still not a single higher-up actor indicted, prosecuted and imprisoned for life? Yes, for life. New crimes demand new sentences. To say the DOJ is working smoothly is a denial of the evidence. Working diligently since February 2021, a blatant lie. Working single mindedly on the nation's biggest case since 1865, total fictional apologism which serves only certain interests.

Dyedinthewoolliberal

(15,600 posts)
31. Politics is a nasty, dirty business
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 11:21 AM
Mar 15

and there are always going to be shit stirrers and button pushers. Getting rid of Garland is the least of our collective worries.

markpkessinger

(8,409 posts)
67. Your question actually points to a larger question . . .
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 01:01 PM
Mar 15

. . . which is, why do Democrats insist on appointing Republicans as prosecutors, head of the FBI, etc., then act surprised when Republicans act like, well, Republicans? BTW, did you know that NO Democrat has ever been named to head the FBI?

Tell me when Republicans last named a Democrat to such a post. The answer is, it hasn't happened.

Adam Serwer has an excellent piece in The Atlantic about this: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/03/hur-report-biden-2024-election/677740/

moniss

(4,274 posts)
37. The idea that you have condemnation for
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 11:35 AM
Mar 15

others but not Bragg is questionable. If Bragg made his request a year ago for major documents in a case involving one of the most notorious figures in the world, didn't get them within let's say 90 days, apparently failed to go to Garland about it with his hair on fire does not square. You don't get to sit on your backside waiting and then bitch later about how somebody didn't give you what you needed in a year. Doing that is classic CYA crap. The question here is also whether Bragg is doing a "catch and kill" on this.

You can count on a bunch of motions from the defense about how they had info withheld from them and claiming proof therefore of unfairness etc. More delay, more appeals. People are incorrectly saying the case is delayed 30 days. The court did not say anything yet. The prosecution offered 30 days and the defense wants 90 days.

First of all this case investigation by SDNY looks to be one of the "bury them in paperwork" moves. The facts as alleged are as follows: 1. Screwed a porn star. 2. Arranged to pay porn star to keep quiet. 3. Lied about those payments on your business records.

The idea that you need over 100,000 pages to nail that down is BS. For example if Biden were to jaywalk and the media showed a clip of it and it started an investigation you could talk to Biden, his SS detail as witnesses and the media that showed the clip in order to ascertain authenticity etc. Probably wrap that up in about 3 pages. Or you could begin to interview who was in control of the schedule that day, the people responsible for placing the crosswalks and controlling signals, the legislators who passed the laws authorizing the placement of the signals and crosswalks to determine their intent, interview the WH chef about what breakfast was served that day to determine if there was any possible ill effect from bad food, track down and interview as many witnesses who were on the street or driving by and interview their friends/families/employers/previous classmates/teachers to determine their veracity as witnesses, interview thousands of people who claim to have seen it on TV, interview thousands of people who claim they saw something else on TV, etc.

Now at the end of the jaywalking investigation you have an investigation file of 500,000 pages. Boy there must be an awful lot going on because otherwise why would we have so much paper? The additional thing that SDNY could be making happen in dumping such a huge quantity of paper is that maybe some info about unrelated things are in there that SDNY knows about who talked about what things in the crooked businesses of this guy and what they said. Nice little "heads up" for their man. Now honestly everything I've said is really way over the top because everybody knows the SDNY and NY/NJ FBI have never engaged in crooked or partisan behavior.

In engineering we used to call it "engineering something to death". If your bosses, who had no technical background, were adamant in going in a direction you knew was not feasible then you just make the engineering work take forever and ever until the facts on the ground change and the thing can die as no longer applicable. Bury it in investigation and study when it's something you don't really want to happen. Just like in politics or many other things in life.

bigtree

(86,013 posts)
41. I admit blaming Bragg for sabatoging his own prosecution of Trump didn't occur to me
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 11:42 AM
Mar 15

...I'll put that in line behind complaints that 'Garland is taking too much time convicting Trump,' and 'Garland's taking longer than Fani Willis.'

gab13by13

(21,477 posts)
45. It certainly looks to me like President Biden is upset with Merrick Garland
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 11:49 AM
Mar 15

If Joe's upset, so am I.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,693 posts)
65. Unless you're having WH luncheons with Joe, your perception is based on one anonymously sourced article.
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 12:44 PM
Mar 15

I don’t see any evidence Biden is dissatisfied with Garland.

moniss

(4,274 posts)
62. You can put that right in line with the fact that
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 12:40 PM
Mar 15

Bragg killed the case the moment he came in to office before his backside even warmed the seat of his chair. But then after revolt in his office and heavy public condemnation he decides to retake "control" of the case. Hardly a crusader for justice as portrayed. Likewise his predecessor.

gab13by13

(21,477 posts)
42. Wow, very interesting analysis.
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 11:47 AM
Mar 15

Adding to what you posted: Cy Vance gave the go ahead for Pomerantz and Dunne to indict Trump for financial criminal crimes. Alvin Bragg pulled the plug and took a lot of heat for doing so. Then he comes back with this campaign finance indictment to get back into everyone's graces.

I would not be shocked if Bragg drops this case also, he may now have an excuse.

moniss

(4,274 posts)
69. Yes and even Vance
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 01:11 PM
Mar 15

is not clear entirely clean if you look at his Epstein, Weinstein history etc. Vance joins a long history of prosecutors with questionable moves in that office. Hogan and Morgenthau for example.

markpkessinger

(8,409 posts)
38. I don't think Garland should resign, BUT . . .
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 11:38 AM
Mar 15

. . . neither will I pretend that his performance on the job hasn't been sub-par. His nearly two-year delay in naming a special prosecutor has a lot to do with why we are so tightly up against the 2024 election. I agree that for him to resign now would be a disaster for both Biden and the investigations. But I would hope that he would recognize, at the end of Biden's first term, that he should step down.

bigtree

(86,013 posts)
47. I'm old enough to remember when the complaints were that he didn't need a SC
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 11:53 AM
Mar 15

...and that he could have convicted Trump in the first year of his term.

The buzz from his detractors at that time was that the SC was not only brought in to slow the investigation down, and that it certainly would, but that he was brought in to give cover for Garland to reject charges.

Not only that, Garland's DOJ didn't wait to investigate Trump. You don't start investigations of former presidents who are your boss' political rival on a dime, but DOJ began looking into the Trump WH in the Fall of 2021, much earlier than when Jack Smith was hired.

So, Garland was not only prosecuting hundreds and hundreds of Capitol rioters, he was, at the SAME TIME investigating the Trump WH and laying the groundwork for what he decided later would be an independent investigator.

receipts:

___ Jack Smith (took) over a staff already nearly twice the size of Robert Mueller’s team of lawyers who worked on the Russia probe.  A team of 20 prosecutors investigating January 6 and the effort to overturn the 2020 election (moved) to work under Smith, according to multiple people familiar with the team.

Smith also (took) on national security investigators already working the probe into the potential mishandling of federal records taken to Mar-a-Lago after Trump left the White House.

Together, the twin investigations already established more evidence than what Mueller started with, including from a year-long financial probe that’s largely flown under the radar.

“Mueller was starting virtually from scratch, whereas Jack Smith is seemingly integrating on the fly into an active, fast-moving investigation,” said Elie Honig, a former federal prosecutor and senior CNN legal analyst.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/11/politics/jack-smith-special-counsel-high-profile-moves-trump-criminal-investigations/index.html


____the other investigative team, looking at efforts to block the transfer of power from Trump to President Joe Biden after the 2020 election, had even a year ago been given the greenlight by the Justice Department to take a case all the way up to Trump, if the evidence leads them there, according to the sources. Work that’s been led by the DC US Attorney’s Office into political circles around Trump related to January 6 now will move under the special counsel.

Partly led by former Maryland-based federal prosecutor Thomas Windom, DOJ has added prosecutors to the January 6 team from all over the department in recent months. Windom and the rest are also expected to move over to the special counsel’s office. Some, like Mary Dohrmann, a prosecutor who’s worked on several other Capitol riot cases already, appear to be reorienting, according to court records of open Capitol riot cases.   

Another top prosecutor, JP Cooney, the former head of public corruption in the DC US Attorney’s Office, is overseeing a significant financial probe that Smith will take on. The probe includes examining the possible misuse of political contributions, according to some of the sources. The DC US Attorney’s Office, before the special counsel’s arrival, had examined potential financial crimes related to the January 6 riot, including possible money laundering and the support of rioters’ hotel stays and bus trips to Washington ahead of January 6.

In recent months, however, the financial investigation has sought information about Trump’s post-election Save America PAC and other funding of people who assisted Trump, according to subpoenas viewed by CNN. The financial investigation picked up steam as DOJ investigators enlisted cooperators months after the 2021 riot, one of the sources said. (credit Garland)

In interviews with people in Trump’s orbit over the past several months, some of the DOJ focus has been on the timeline leading up to January 6 and Trump’s involvement and knowledge of potential events that day, according to a source familiar with the questioning.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/11/politics/jack-smith-special-counsel-high-profile-moves-trump-criminal-investigations/index.html

Before Jack Smith was appointed, Merrick Garland:

Seized John Eastman's phone
Seized Jeffrey Clark's phone
Seized Scott Perry's emails
Seized Eastman's emails
Seized Epshteyn's phone
Seized Mike Lindell's phone
Seized Mike Roman's phone
Seized Scott Perry's phone
Got Kash Patel's testimony
Appointed Windom
Appointed Cooney
Subpoenaed the fraudulent electors
Subpoenaed 7 state's election officials
Subpoenaed Sidney's PAC
Subpoenaed Rudy
Opened IG probe into Clark
Opened IG probe into DoJ response to 1/6
Negotiated subpoena for Meadows
Battled the 11th circuit for classified docs
Subpoenaed trump for classified docs
Subpoenaed trump for surveillance video
Executed a search warrant on trump
Convicted Bannon of contempt
Indicted Navarro for contempt
Subpoenaed the speakers from 1/6
Subpoenaed the organizers of 1/6
Secured seditious conspiracy convictions
Subpoenaed records for any member of congress involved in 1/6
Subpoenaed info on Jenna Ellis
Secured testimony from Mark Short
Secured testimony from Jacob Engel
Secured testimony from Philbin
Secured testimony from Cippollone
Subpoenaed info on trump's PACs
Won privilege battles for Short, Engel, and the Pats
Negotiated for Pence's subpoena
Seized the phone records of Meadows
Secured the 1/6 committee transcripts
Subpoenaed 7 secretaries of state


...show me ONE DOJ which has brought more charges against republicans than this one, and has opened more investigations into republicans than Merrick Garland's.

There isn't any one that comes even close.

Think. Again.

(8,631 posts)
39. I think you're reacting rather strongly...
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 11:42 AM
Mar 15

...clearly, there SHOULD be questions about the way garland has and is handling things, and yes, it is SDNY's fault for holding back requested documents and yes, if the head of the DOJ is NOT paying attention to the cases that the DOJ is working against a former President, he ain't doing too good of a job.

Also, you do realize that social media is probably not the best barometer of what's actually happening, right?

bigtree

(86,013 posts)
48. ask the questions and bring your receipts
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 11:57 AM
Mar 15

...because there are no returns in my store without receipts.

Response to Think. Again. (Reply #58)

Think. Again.

(8,631 posts)
138. Oh, you mean this rhetorical question...
Sat Mar 16, 2024, 06:23 AM
Mar 16

"Also, you do realize that social media is probably not the best barometer of what's actually happening, right?"

Yeah, sorry to get off topic with that but I assume you realize that social media sites are designed to amplify the noise that is occurring on that social media site around any given viewer's focus of interest, and although it does supply confirmation bias for your point of view, again, it's not the best way to judge what the actual population is doing or thinking.

But you know that, right?.

AZSkiffyGeek

(11,131 posts)
146. I'm just commenting on the fact you asked a question
Sat Mar 16, 2024, 11:43 AM
Mar 16

Then immediately said you didn’t.
It’s not my fault you don’t understand what a question is or what punctuation means.
That has nothing to do with the uses of social media, it’s grade school grammar.

Think. Again.

(8,631 posts)
149. Such fun! now look up "Rhetorical Question"!
Sat Mar 16, 2024, 12:43 PM
Mar 16

And may I suggest you try to stay on one particular topic within a multi-sentence statement.

For example:

Discussing how rhetorical questions do not require answers is a different topic than discussing how social media serves as an echo chamber for the reader's own interests.

See? Different topics should be kept separate in good-faith debates!

It's fun!



Cosmocat

(14,581 posts)
46. Garland has limited influence over the SDNY
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 11:50 AM
Mar 15

to his "credit."

But, the calling for his resignation thing is far from isolated to this particular situation.

I don't know that anything he has, or has not done, rises to the level of his being replaced, but he is a company man to a great extent and there is ample that he has and has not done that feeds the frustrations of those who would like to see more accountability for the key players.

BumRushDaShow

(129,842 posts)
61. But the 93 U.S. Attorneys are NOT the AG's appointees
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 12:33 PM
Mar 15

they are the President's appointees (as are all the other agency heads under DOJ).

The fact that the system was set up that way is to allow "independence".

Think. Again.

(8,631 posts)
70. He still runs the show...
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 01:12 PM
Mar 15

...I keep reading how people think the AG has no say in what the various departments of the DOJ are doing.

If that's true, that right there is reason to remove him and find someone who understands that responsibility goes UP the ladder.

But I strongly suspect that garland is and always has been VERY aware of every move his agency makes against a former President.

BumRushDaShow

(129,842 posts)
72. "He still runs the show..."
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 01:26 PM
Mar 15

A "show" that looks like this with 115,000 people -



Whenever I post an org chart, I know most eyes gloss over and dismiss it.

I'll re-post the article excerpt that I posted upthread here - https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18780011

that shows what happens when an AG interferes with a U.S. Attorney's Office -

Trump Pushed Officials to Prosecute His Critics, Ex-U.S. Attorney Says


By Benjamin Weiser
Sept. 8, 2022


A book by a former top federal prosecutor offers new details about how the Justice Department under President Donald J. Trump sought to use the U.S. attorney’s office in Manhattan to support Mr. Trump politically and pursue his critics — even pushing the office to open a criminal investigation of former secretary of state John Kerry.

The prosecutor, Geoffrey S. Berman, was the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York for two and a half years until June 2020, when Mr. Trump fired him after he refused a request to resign by Attorney General William P. Barr, who sought to replace him with an administration ally. A copy of Mr. Berman’s book, “Holding the Line,” was obtained by The New York Times before its scheduled publication Tuesday.

The book paints a picture of Justice Department officials motivated by partisan concerns in pursuing investigations or blocking them; in weighing how forthright to be in court filings; and in shopping investigations to other prosecutors’ offices when the Southern District declined to act.

The book contains accounts of how department officials tried to have allusions to Mr. Trump scrubbed from charging papers for Michael D. Cohen, his former personal lawyer, and how the attorney general later tried to have his conviction reversed. It tells of pressure to pursue Mr. Kerry, who had angered Mr. Trump by attempting to preserve the nuclear deal he had negotiated with Iran.

(snip)

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/08/nyregion/geoffrey-berman-trump-book.html


The above is illustrative of fascist behavior and DU shouldn't be trying to support it.

Think. Again.

(8,631 posts)
73. I'm pretty sure...
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 01:36 PM
Mar 15

...that any work the DOJ is doing that directly involves an ex-President will find it's way onto garland's update memos, and there's no doubt the AG is responsible for the work of the DOJ, that's pretty much the entire job description.

And I'm curious, what fascist behaviour are you implying about an AG doing their job correctly? The examples you gave indicate attempts to have an AG do WRONG things.

BumRushDaShow

(129,842 posts)
74. "that any work the DOJ is doing that directly involves an ex-President will find it's way onto garland's update memos"
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 02:16 PM
Mar 15

For "high profile" work, he might do a "sign off" but otherwise, he's not micromanaging their cases. There are layers including a Deputy AG, who manages that.

It seems that non-feds don't get that the Department Heads are pretty much "figure heads" who serve at the pleasure of the President. I worked under 6 Presidents and had a rolling cast of characters as Department Heads over my agency.

And for all we know, which apparently is something that hasn't been broached here, what if it was Garland who directed that SDNY shit or get off the pot and get stuff in?

I noticed that the Sedition Hunters have (correctly) been frustrated at the slow pace of some of the U.S. Attorney Offices completing investigations and arresting many of the J6 rally insurrectionists (because THOSE offices do the actual legwork and arrests based on where the suspect is residing, before shunting the case over to the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia), and there has been a sudden uptick in those types of arrests (I noticed because I have been seeing more articles and posting OPs about them).

And to address this -

And I'm curious, what fascist behaviour are you implying about an AG doing their job correctly? The examples you gave indicate attempts to have an AG do WRONG things.


There is a difference between "managing" and "influencing" and it seems DU wants "influencing" in the manner that was described in the article I excerpted, which provided some insights from what Geoff Berman wrote in his book.

Think. Again.

(8,631 posts)
77. I MUST disagree...
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 02:26 PM
Mar 15

...it seems to ME that DU is only looking for timely and competent 'management' by garland.

I very much doubt anyone expects garland to be influenced by a bunch of internet randos.

As to replacing him, that couldn't be considered "influencing" either, despite how many DUers might like to have the ear of the President.

And if garland is "signing off" on work he disagrees with, well, back to square one.

BumRushDaShow

(129,842 posts)
83. To respond
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 02:43 PM
Mar 15
..it seems to ME that DU is only looking for timely and competent 'management' by garland.


There are a number of DUers calling for his removal.

I very much doubt anyone expects garland to be influenced by a bunch of internet randos.


And he won't be but that doesn't stop the drumbeat here that obfuscates other more critical things that are going on including a primary season with our Democratic President on the campaign trail. When someone like Jennifer Granholm or Deb Haaland are out on the road announcing initiatives within their departments and those events get posted here, they're met with a big "yawn", with little or no comment.

I saw the same sort of thing happen with Eric Holder here. He was made into the devil incarnate under the "POS used car salesman" President Obama as Obama was dubbed here, with many in agreement.

As to replacing him, that couldn't be considered "influencing" either, despite how many DUers might like to have the ear of the President.


The point of Russian (and other) trolls is to cause FUD - Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt and they are doing a fine job here once more. This doesn't mean that Biden or his appointees aren't above "criticism", but what often is called "criticism" goes far beyond that because it's based on faulty information, misinformation, and a lack of knowledge of Civics 101.

In other words, it illustrates what I have in my sig from MLK - "Sincere ignorance" and "conscientious stupidity".

And if garland is "signing off" on work he disagrees with, well, back to square one.


I expect the "things" that he "signs off on" are related to MUCH HIGHER LEVEL type stuff, NOT the lower level things. He often goes out in the media with press conferences about stuff that he has been "monitoring/managing", but videos/posts on those types of conferences are dismissed because he has been completely dismissed.

Think. Again.

(8,631 posts)
84. Yeah, people here on DU sometimes seem very happy....
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 03:00 PM
Mar 15

to join in on the divisive trolling and misinformation amplification. Not a very strong sense of Party unity here, but of course we all have our own opinions, and should.

I suspect the prosecution of a Presidential candidate might be high on the AG's concern list.

BumRushDaShow

(129,842 posts)
86. "I suspect the prosecution of a Presidential candidate might be high on the AG's concern list."
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 03:32 PM
Mar 15

I'm sure it is, but there is also a fantasy that had the searches and seizures started the day after he was confirmed, that no "delays" would have happened.

I guarantee they would have, and it would made things even more frustrating, regardless of when anything "started" because there were "actings" in the U.S. Attorney Offices (particularly critical for those that ended up being deeply involved in these cases including the D.C. and FL U.S. Attorney Offices).

bigtree has a good list of things that were happening in DOJ BEFORE Jack Smith was brought in - https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18779938

BumRushDaShow

(129,842 posts)
91. That has been the call from those who want Criminal Justice Reform
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 03:54 PM
Mar 15

and has been a rallying cry falling on deaf ears from Civil Rights groups for many decades. And it doesn't just mean "Presidents" but a whole demographic of people who have been denied "justice" (let alone anyone not economically advantaged to achieve relief through the "due process" rules). Their cases weren't as "sexy" as prosecuting a President so few gave a shit.

But that is something that Congress needs to do.

Think. Again.

(8,631 posts)
95. That's true, we don't agree on garland....
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 04:11 PM
Mar 15

....even though, as the head of the Department of JUSTICE, he is the one person who is directly responsible for not denying justice in the U.S. through the inarguable delay he has been overseeing.

BumRushDaShow

(129,842 posts)
96. "Criminal Justice" is not just "federal"
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 04:55 PM
Mar 15

it is "state", "county", and "local". To put all the blame on one guy who is nothing more than a part of a revolving series of appointees, completely minimizes the issue and trivializes the saying.

It is a system-wide problem that needs to be addressed by legislation. Rev. Sharpton, when on with Nicole earlier discussing the cases, laid it all out very simply.

Think. Again.

(8,631 posts)
98. If you're saying garland is just a figurehead...
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 05:03 PM
Mar 15

...then I think he definitely should go now, with everything the DOJ has on their plate, we need an well-managed DOJ!

BumRushDaShow

(129,842 posts)
99. Again
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 05:17 PM
Mar 15

there is a lack of understanding the roles of the Department heads and acceptance of their fleeting presence. It's not just him, but ALL of them. THAT is the way this Executive Branch is set up.

Pushing them through the revolving door faster than they are already going, is perhaps not surprising for me to see here on DU.

Think. Again.

(8,631 posts)
105. Okay, well thanks, I don't really get what you're trying to say, but I appreciate the discussion.
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 05:26 PM
Mar 15

Have a great weekend!

Goodheart

(5,351 posts)
119. The OP would have you believe, apparently, that these SDNY documents are the only cause that has provoked anger,
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 06:40 PM
Mar 15

when in fact Garland's shortcomings have become almost too numerous to list.

lees1975

(3,903 posts)
49. Public pressure can be tough.
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 11:58 AM
Mar 15

Frustration over all of the delays and obfuscations of the justice system, coming to a calendar with an election on it, when everything that was necessary to move forward could have started a year before it did. Lots of people here were telling us the delay was just Garland marshalling the evidence and getting ready for the indictments, when it turned out nothing had been started and he basically wasn't doing anything specific.

So I understand, Garland was a Biden appointee and is to be respected as such. But there's a huge amount of frustration now, as all of this legal tangle delays justice that could have been done by now if the DOJ had been on top of it. And everything they've done supports that claim.

So let public pressure see if it can salvage something even at this late date.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,693 posts)
64. You are spreading falsehoods
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 12:41 PM
Mar 15
Lots of people here were telling us the delay was just Garland marshalling the evidence and getting ready for the indictments, when it turned out nothing had been started and he basically wasn't doing anything specific.


That is a provably false statement.

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/merrick-garland-isnt-blame-delays-trumps-election-interference-case-rcna141213

Timeline of all actions during the period you claim “nothing had been started and he basically wasn’t doing anything specific “ at link.

lees1975

(3,903 posts)
106. Sorry, but he admitted to delays himself.
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 05:30 PM
Mar 15

I saw the piece. Sorry but that contradicts the statement Garland made when he was called out for it.

republianmushroom

(13,785 posts)
124. Attorney General Merrick Garland deliberated for weeks over whether to approve the application for a warrant to search f
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 09:04 PM
Mar 15
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142956907

WASHINGTON—Attorney General Merrick Garland deliberated for weeks over whether to approve the application for a warrant to search former President Donald Trump’s Florida home, people familiar with the matter said, a sign of his cautious approach that will be tested over coming months.

The decision had been the subject of weeks of meetings between senior Justice Department and FBI officials, the people said. The warrant allowed agents last Monday to seize classified information and other presidential material from Mar-a-Lago.

Mr. Garland now faces a more momentous decision that will further sharpen an already unprecedented and politically fraught situation: whether to pursue charges against Mr. Trump or any of his allies over their handling of the records at issue and their interactions with Justice Department officials seeking to retrieve them.

A decision to bring charges in the matter against Mr. Trump or any of his allies would thrust the Justice Department deeper into a political environment in which the former president’s supporters and Republican lawmakers are already accusing Mr. Garland and the department of overreach.


Read more: https://www.wsj.com/articles/merrick-garland-weighed-search-of-trumps-mar-a-lago-for-weeks-11660601292

republianmushroom

(13,785 posts)
126. Maybe you mean this one.
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 09:17 PM
Mar 15

DOJ delayed opening a criminal investigation into Trump for Jan 6. insurrection for more than a year
The Washington Post recently reported that the FBI and the Department of Justice delayed for more than a year opening a criminal investigation into Donald Trump and his associates for their attempt to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election.



https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017838884

SARose

(272 posts)
50. Detailed Chronology in Trump-Cohen Hush Money Investigation
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 12:03 PM
Mar 15
https://www.justsecurity.org/85761/detailed-chronology-of-trump-cohen-hush-money-scheme/

A lot to digest. Read through this timeline and refresh your memory. I had either forgotten or had not known some of these details.

This whole mess started in 2016.

Trump hush money trial faces possible delay over late evidence disclosure
By Luc Cohen
March 14, 20244:57 PM CDTUpdated 18 hours ago

NEW YORK, March 14 (Reuters) - Prosecutors in Donald Trump's hush money case said on Thursday they would not oppose a 30-day delay in the trial, set to begin on March 25, after the Republican presidential candidate said late disclosure of evidence was hurting his preparation.

A delay to the first-ever criminal trial of a former U.S. president would mark another victory for Trump, who has sought to slow down proceedings in his various legal entanglements as he prepares to challenge Democratic President Joe Biden in the Nov. 5 election.

Snip

https://www.reuters.com/legal/trump-hush-money-prosecutors-not-opposed-30-day-trial-delay-2024-03-14/

Emphasis mine. Trump asked for this delay and Bragg agreed to only 30 day delay.

I totally agree with bigtree. There is a whole lot of misinformation being thrown about right now.

AllaN01Bear

(18,642 posts)
51. consult the master computer on 1/6
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 12:05 PM
Mar 15

one enticed a attack on the capital where cops were beaten and killed.
two the mob was going after key congress people and the veep
three. whilst that was going on there was an attempt to stop the vote counting for the election.
four pipe bombs were placed around the capital and never detonated .
five trump refused to leave office in order for a peacful transer of gvt.
six a twice impeached and never removed from office and a rap sheet miles long
conclusion this was perpetrated by one man and only one man trump
and as u know the coup is ongoing.
rough nite last nite , was in the er for afib. i usually go in wen the weather changes . we went from tuesday w rain to 50 degrees f and strong north winds . im tired and i am tired of the lies and delays when the facts are out there . the trump party is wanting him to come back and will delay please stay safe my du family .

William769

(55,148 posts)
52. There's a lot of people right now that I am pissed at here.
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 12:07 PM
Mar 15

Stupidity knows no bounds.

Thank you for a great and well thought out OP.

republianmushroom

(13,785 posts)
59. a little bit plagiarism here, but,
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 12:15 PM
Mar 15

Why do people have their panties in a wad over the the criticism of Garland, because the DOJ didn't give the NYDA the doc's sooner ?

Another question,, why must some defend Garland whenever there is criticism of him or the DOJ ?

There could be several reasons, for criticism. From, he is the top dog at DOJ, helping trump delay the trial , to it may be to political, etc. Or, they can say he is doing the best he can and it is not his fault for the foot dragging beside the DOJ has had these doc's for less than a year and justice moves very slow.
There are many choices one can make and it is up to the individual.

SARose

(272 posts)
71. How many times did Jordan and Comer threaten Bragg?
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 01:26 PM
Mar 15

I posted a link above in #50 that contains a detailed chronology of this whole mess.

Look at the March 2023, April 2023 and May 2023.

Maybe the DOJ is a bit smarter than we think. Through all the delays, motions to move to Federal court, claims of Presidential immunity, I think DOJ kept the years long federal investigation records under wraps until Trump used up most of his delay tactics. Trump wanted a 90 day delay. Bragg agreed to 30 days.

Pretty smart dumping a bunch of documents on Trump in the midst of an election and all the other legal issues. Lmao

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
76. I don't care how the other side receives me, or either side for that matter. It's past time for Garland to go.
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 02:25 PM
Mar 15

allegorical oracle

(2,357 posts)
81. Garland has always been at a disadvantage...
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 02:41 PM
Mar 15

His career as a judge -- a SCOTUS nominee -- goes to his habit of remaining objective. We now live in a world where everyone must choose a side...no objectivity allowed. Kinda figured Garland would be blamed for any missteps/delays in the trials of drumpf-the-pig.

tritsofme

(17,421 posts)
88. The idea that Garland would want to stick around for 8 years in the first place is pretty silly.
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 03:45 PM
Mar 15

His leaving after Biden wins reelection would be indicative of nothing.

ecstatic

(32,770 posts)
100. I understand your point. Fully. But the problem is he put our country in jeopardy
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 05:18 PM
Mar 15

with the slow walking of traitors. The way things were handled from the very beginning was wrong. And I fully believe that had trump been anyone other than a white republican male, he would be in prison right now, and rightfully so.

I can't ignore or excuse away serious mistakes that might lead to me losing my life in a fascist, trump-led nazi dictatorship.

Honestly, I don't GAF about what magats think of MG. Their delusional thoughts don't dictate how I feel or what I say about someone.

MG REALLY fucked up, and now my life and the people I love are at risk.

bigtree

(86,013 posts)
108. it's just untrue that he waited for anything
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 05:40 PM
Mar 15

...and since you didn't provide a shred of proof, I'm going to assume you're just talking down the prosecution using your projection of the investigations and prosecutions, instead of the real thing- something not restricted to those actually seeking justice in this case.

Moreover, the complaint that Garland didn't save the election is not only contradictory to the impetus to hold Trump accountable for his own manipulation of justice and government to achieve a political goal, that interfering course would sink the prosecutions, not further them.

The idea that Garland's DOJ should have been on some political timetable to advantage Biden in the election and put Trump at a disadvantage with his legal moves against him is just an amazing ask for what is essentially illegal and an affront to democracy and the law.

But on a practical level, how do you reconcile all of that political interference you're counseling for DOJ with the fact that neither charges or a conviction can be used to keep Trump from assuming office?

Trump Indictment: Why A Conviction—Or Imprisonment—Wouldn’t Prevent Him From Being President

The charges, some of which carry a maximum sentence of up to 20 years in prison, would not prevent Trump from continuing his third campaign for the White House nor would a conviction keep him from holding office, experts have said, noting the Constitution only requires presidential candidates to be natural-born citizens who are at least 35 years old and have lived in the country for 14 years.

If Trump is convicted and sentenced to prison, he could potentially serve as president from behind bars—a scenario that would introduce unprecedented security and logistical challenges, Reuters noted.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2023/06/09/trump-indictment-why-a-conviction-or-imprisonment-wouldnt-prevent-him-from-being-president/?sh=29c9fdf01c31

Goodheart

(5,351 posts)
120. Wow, talk about a strawman
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 06:55 PM
Mar 15

"The idea that Garland's DOJ should have been on some political timetable to advantage Biden in the election and put Trump at a disadvantage with his legal moves"


Wow, just wow.

Nobody here expects that an Attorney General should deliberately set a political timetable to favor one candidate over another; what we DO expect is that an Attorney General should investigate and prosecute crimes in a timely manner.

SARose

(272 posts)
111. Donald Trump's first criminal trial delayed
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 05:59 PM
Mar 15

Judge delays Trump’s hush-money criminal trial until mid-April, citing last-minute evidence dump

NEW YORK (AP) — Donald Trump’s New York hush-money criminal trial was delayed Friday until at least mid-April as the judge seeks answers about a last-minute evidence dump that the former president’s lawyers said has hampered their ability to prepare their defense.

Snip

In a letter Friday, Merchan told Manhattan prosecutors and Trump’s defense team that he wanted to assess “who, if anyone, is at fault for the late production of the documents,” whether it hurt either side and whether any sanctions are warranted.

Snip

Prosecutors contend Trump’s lawyers caused the evidence problem by waiting until Jan. 18 — a mere nine weeks before the scheduled start of jury selection — to subpoena the U.S. attorney’s office for the full case file.

District Attorney Alvin Bragg’s office said it requested the full file last year but the U.S. attorney’s office only turned over a subset of records. Trump’s lawyers received that material last June and had ample time to seek additional evidence from the federal probe, the district attorney’s office said.

Snip

https://apnews.com/article/trump-hush-money-criminal-trial-delay-8e41f4be00f0420056433d2381189df8

Goodheart

(5,351 posts)
114. The one FACT you continue to la la la gloss over
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 06:23 PM
Mar 15

is that Garland could have started investigations and thus ultimately indictments of trump a LOT sooner.

The anger at Garland is not because of these SDNY documents... it's because the DELAYS caused by the SDNY documents and other legal motions have a calamitous effect on the timing of his cases, up against the election, that COULD HAVE BEEN RESOLVED BEFORE THE ELECTION if Garland wasn't so inept.

So, inept, in fact, that I'm leaning toward corrupt, instead.

And, oh, by the way... why should Garland's resignation depend on how it would be "received on the other side"? Really, does that OTHER SIDE ever care how THIS side views things, or do they just go ahead and fire James Comey?



Goodheart

(5,351 posts)
117. A few dates, upon which to adequately assess Garland's performance
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 06:28 PM
Mar 15

Date that trump refused to accept his election loss, and ostensibly began scheming to overthrow it: November 4, 2020

Date of insurrection: January 6, 2021

Date Merrick Garland was confirmed as Attorney General: March 10, 2021

Date Merrick Garland appointed Jack Smith as Special Counsel: November 18, 2022

NO LESS THAN TWENTY FULL MONTHS after Garland took office, when it was obvious on January 6 2021 to the entire world that trump had incited an insurrection.

I'm "amazed" how you think that's anything other than dereliction of duty.

Goodheart

(5,351 posts)
127. I picked the dates that matter.
Fri Mar 15, 2024, 09:25 PM
Mar 15

Last edited Fri Mar 15, 2024, 10:42 PM - Edit history (1)

It's called pointing out the obvious, cutting to the chase, getting right down to the nitty gritty, sticking to the point, seeing the forest instead of just the trees.

I'm not going to be gaslighted into excusing Merrick Garland just because he was not directly responsible for this ONE singular SDNY documents delay when the PRINCIPAL CATASTROPHE is just as I described: the inability to get trump to justice because of Garland's ineptitude (corruption?)... and when the buck stops with HIM, anyway.



TwilightZone

(25,508 posts)
136. Nah, it's called ignoring whatever doesn't fit the narrative.
Sat Mar 16, 2024, 12:57 AM
Mar 16

Step one: come to a conclusion.

Step two: make the facts fit the conclusion.

If you have to ignore everything that doesn't fit step one, it shouldn't have been step one.

Goodheart

(5,351 posts)
140. You're quite wrong, of course.
Sat Mar 16, 2024, 08:16 AM
Mar 16

I used to be a Garland supporter, cheered his appointment. My conclusion is the result of his incompetence, and the facts I listed are the CAUSE of my opposition. I don't oppose something or someone just for the sake of it, and I find your responses insulting. Having said that, your next rebuttal will be as worthless as your first one, and I'm just going to ignore it.

BumRushDaShow

(129,842 posts)
145. Did you see this list upthread
Sat Mar 16, 2024, 10:40 AM
Mar 16
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18779938

Before Jack Smith was appointed, Merrick Garland:

Seized John Eastman's phone
Seized Jeffrey Clark's phone
Seized Scott Perry's emails
Seized Eastman's emails
Seized Epshteyn's phone
Seized Mike Lindell's phone
Seized Mike Roman's phone
Seized Scott Perry's phone
Got Kash Patel's testimony
Appointed Windom
Appointed Cooney
Subpoenaed the fraudulent electors
Subpoenaed 7 state's election officials
Subpoenaed Sidney's PAC
Subpoenaed Rudy
Opened IG probe into Clark
Opened IG probe into DoJ response to 1/6
Negotiated subpoena for Meadows
Battled the 11th circuit for classified docs
Subpoenaed trump for classified docs
Subpoenaed trump for surveillance video
Executed a search warrant on trump
Convicted Bannon of contempt
Indicted Navarro for contempt
Subpoenaed the speakers from 1/6
Subpoenaed the organizers of 1/6
Secured seditious conspiracy convictions
Subpoenaed records for any member of congress involved in 1/6
Subpoenaed info on Jenna Ellis
Secured testimony from Mark Short
Secured testimony from Jacob Engel
Secured testimony from Philbin
Secured testimony from Cippollone
Subpoenaed info on trump's PACs
Won privilege battles for Short, Engel, and the Pats
Negotiated for Pence's subpoena
Seized the phone records of Meadows
Secured the 1/6 committee transcripts
Subpoenaed 7 secretaries of state


Remember this? It happened sometime before July 8, 2022 (the date listed on this video), some 4 months before Smith was brought in. For perspective, Jeff Clark was to be designated "Acting AG" to start the overthrow process within the Executive Branch and that was when the threats came where a whole layer of DOJ threatened to resign if that had happened.



And you have this, where a day after Mar-a-Lago's seizure, Scott Perry's phone was seized (video was dated Aug. 12, 2022, 3 months before Smith) -



And this has the clip of John Eastman's phone being seized in the parking lot of a restaurant (video is dated June 28, 2022, 5 months before Smith) -



This was going on "behind the scenes" parallel to the J6 Committee hearings that didn't actually start "in earnest" until June 9, 2022, despite the Committee having been formed and coming into being a year earlier on July 1st, 2021.

All of this was posted on DU at the time but the false narrative of "nothing happening" keeps getting perpetuated.

Goodheart

(5,351 posts)
147. Jack Smith was appointed TWENTY MONTHS after the insurrection.
Sat Mar 16, 2024, 11:49 AM
Mar 16

And I'm supposed to be impressed that Garland siezed Eastman's and Perry's phones SIXTEEN MONTHS after the insurrection?

I noticed that you (or whoever created that list) not-so-cleverly omitted the dates on which those things occurred.

Let's start from the top:

The insurrection occurred on January 6, 2021. Eastman's phone was seized in June 2022. And you're impressed with that?

The insurrection occurred on January 6, 2021. Perry's phone was seized in August 2022 . And you're impressed with that?

Mike Lindell had nothing to do with the insurrection.

The insurrection occurred on January 6, 2021. Kash Patel testified in October 2022. . And you're impressed with that?

I could continue down the list but it's pretty telling, don't you think, that dates are not included?

Nobody has said that Garland has done nothing. What's incompetent (and perhaps even corrupt) is that he did most everything TOO LATE. And then, to top it all off, he appointed the hack Robert Hur, whom he MUST have known would deliver a political smear.



BumRushDaShow

(129,842 posts)
151. "Jack Smith was appointed TWENTY MONTHS after the insurrection."
Sat Mar 16, 2024, 02:55 PM
Mar 16

Let's do some education, shall we?

First - you do realize that when Joe Biden was inaugurated, the majority of the U.S. Attorneys were to submit their resignations. THEY are the people who actually do the prosecutions, NOT the AG.

The U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia (Matthew Graves) was not CONFIRMED BY THE SENATE and sworn in until November 2021. "Actings" can do some things but are restricted.

But even before that, from an article published less than a week after Biden was inaugurated -

Sedition investigations could 'bear fruit soon' in Capitol riot cases, FBI says

Author: Jordan Fischer
Published: 5:26 PM EST January 26, 2021
Updated: 5:26 PM EST January 26, 2021



WASHINGTON — The FBI has now opened more than 400 subject case files stemming from the insurrection at the Capitol on January 6, the assistant director of the Washington field office said during a briefing Tuesday. Assistant Director in Charge Steven D’Antuono provided an update to media about the Department of Justice’s ongoing efforts to identify and charge those who participated in the Capitol riot. D’Antuono said so far the case has resulted in:

  • More than 200,000 social media tips from the public.
  • 500+ grand jury subpoenas and search warrants
  • 400+ subject case files
  • 150+ federal cases and 50+ cases in D.C. Superior Court


  • D’Antuono said those cases range from misdemeanor charges all the way up to “significant federal felonies,” some of which carry a 20-year prison sentence. He also said the Department of Justice is all-hands-on-deck to pursue Capitol riot cases.

    (snip)

    He and Acting U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia Michael Sherwin said the cases that have been filed so far are the simpler ones – and that the FBI is working on more complicated cases involving interstate conspiracies by militia groups. He also said to expect a “geometric increase” in cases involving assaults on officers as agents continue combing through the thousands of hours of footage recovered from the event – as well as the possibility of rare sedition charges.

    (snip)

    https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/national/capitol-riots/fbi-says-sedition-investigations-could-bear-fruit-soon-400-case-files-opened-in-capitol-riot/65-b098491e-92c3-4ffb-98e3-3b0d8c9d0499


    And let me add an overlay that has been completely IGNORED during all of these discussions about 2020/2021/2022. I.e., what ELSE was going on during ALL of 2021 (to date)?



    Yes, a PANDEMIC. And that not only disrupted the workforce but ALSO closed many of the courts, which eventually had to move to "remote"/"closed circuit" operation.

    So this was going on in the midst of the other events.

    And I'm supposed to be impressed that Garland siezed Eastman's and Perry's phones SIXTEEN MONTHS after the insurrection?

    I noticed that you (or whoever created that list) not-so-cleverly omitted the dates on which those things occurred.

    Let's start from the top:

    The insurrection occurred on January 6, 2021.


    And you carefully left this out - President Biden was INAUGURATED January 20, 2021. Which then misses that you had leftover Jeff Sessions/Bill Barr people running the department, with Jeff Rosen as "Acting AG" until that happened.

    After that, Biden appointed DOJ civil servant Monty Wilkinson as "Acting AG" until Garland was sworn in.

    Merrick Garland wasn't confirmed until March 2021 (highlights of the February confirmation hearings are here), where J6 was foremost in the hearings. And as noted above, the U.S. Attorney for D.C. wasn't brought in until November 2021.

    Eastman's phone was seized in June 2022. And you're impressed with that?

    The insurrection occurred on January 6, 2021. Perry's phone was seized in August 2022 . And you're impressed with that?

    Mike Lindell had nothing to do with the insurrection.


    What entity knew what Eastman's role was on January 6 other than ranting and raving at a (First Amendment protected) rally?

    Lindell's role happened BEFORE January 6 pushing CT theories just after the election in November 2020.

    He, Ghouliani, and the Kraken lawyers Jenna Ellis and Sidney Powell were on a conspiracy tour to multiple locations (including here in PA in Gettysburg near the end of November 2020). In some cases, they were actually addressing members of GOP-controlled state legislatures (including some here in PA who sponsored that bullshit Gettysburg super-spreader event).

    The insurrection occurred on January 6, 2021. Kash Patel testified in October 2022. . And you're impressed with that?

    I could continue down the list but it's pretty telling, don't you think, that dates are not included?


    You obviously missed the fact that there were multiple layers of things that went on BEFORE January 6, and that continued after it.

    The scope of what was eventually realized to be a large "conspiracy" of seemingly unconnected events that had to be unraveled, and tied together. I.e.,

    1.) Eastman was eventually found to have spearheaded the "fake electors" plots. Since ELECTIONS ARE HANDLED BY THE STATES, the "fake electors" were the responsibility OF THE STATES. There were 7 states that participated in this. Meanwhile NARA (yes THAT NARA) would have received copies of those "fake certifications" and probably did a WTF? because it was unprecedented and they set that mess aside.

    2.) You also had a layer within Congress who had planned to object to the results of those 7 states (and ultimately considered objecting to 4, but due to the trashing of the Capitol, eventually settled on 2). The point being to cause confusion and doubt and try to send the decision back to the state legislatures to decide

    3.) In the waning days of 45's administration, you had Jeff Clark being pushed to take over after Barr left, with the intent to do this by firing Jeff Rosen (who was Acting at the end of December 2020), and installing Clark. That move resulted in the threats of a whole layer of appointees resigning - but again, this was BEFORE Biden was inaugurated. The point of Clark was to use him to CO-OPT DOJ to support the contention that "the election was stolen" and add weight to the nonsense to convince Congress to "send the decision back to the states to decide the outcome".

    Along with other Plan Bs and Cs, that were happening with some states going through multiple recounts (AZ & GA), you essentially had a convoluted mess of both federal AND state election interference.

    All of this was completely unprecedented and it is fantasy to expect that anyone could have come up with any of these plots right away. THAT is something that NO ONE could have ever figured out instantly.

    Nobody has said that Garland has done nothing.


    Half the responses in this thread HAVE said he did "nothing".

    What's incompetent (and perhaps even corrupt) is that he did most everything TOO LATE. And then, to top it all off, he appointed the hack Robert Hur, whom he MUST have known would deliver a political smear.


    Why would he know that Hur would be a "hack"? WE might assume that he, like Weiss and Durham (remember him of the "investigating-the-Russia probe" fame who managed to have several of his cases end up in acquittals? ), were RW loons, but in the real "governing world", that is something that unfortunately can't be considered criteria.

    TwilightZone

    (25,508 posts)
    122. Some of the ignorance is intentional.
    Fri Mar 15, 2024, 07:34 PM
    Mar 15

    It's difficult to maintain a facade unless one ignores all evidence that pokes holes in said facade.

    At this point, I think some are just trolling where Garland is concerned. The most obvious ones tend to also be the most vocal.

    TwilightZone

    (25,508 posts)
    130. Nope.
    Fri Mar 15, 2024, 09:53 PM
    Mar 15

    People see what they want to see, and ignore what they don't. It's human nature, to some degree, and DU isn't immune to it.

    rwild1967

    (21 posts)
    131. Garland should have started prosecutions of tRump 15 minutes after being appointed to the office.
    Fri Mar 15, 2024, 10:38 PM
    Mar 15

    Instead he dawdled and dragged his feet. I don't know if he's a closet trumper or if he's just too scared to do the job but either way he needs to be gone ASAP an damn the political backsplash.

    bigtree

    (86,013 posts)
    134. he's sworn in in March 2021 and by Fall of 2021 he's already investigating
    Fri Mar 15, 2024, 11:39 PM
    Mar 15

    ... the Trump WH with a particular focus on money-laundering and the Save the Steal campaign that Proud Boys and Oath Keepers were using as a front for their riot plans.

    Thomas Windom was appointed in the Fall of 2021 to oversee a probe into the Trump WH with a particular focus on finances.

    By the time Jack Smith got there Garland had over 20 prosecuters who had amassed more evidence than Mueller's entire Russia probe.

    It's really not worth a serious discussion to suggest prosecuting Trump before appeals courts took down the attorney/client privileges barring their testimony.

    You don't prosecute a former president based on news reports and twitter posts. It's a far sight more complicated than the fantasy prosecutions running in the internet's volunteer AGs' projecting minds.

    Goodheart

    (5,351 posts)
    148. The proof is in the pudding. Here's the pudding:
    Sat Mar 16, 2024, 11:54 AM
    Mar 16

    Three and a half years after trump incited an insurrection, and even longer still from when he began to plot stealing the election, we STILL don't have trial dates on Federal charges.

    thumper2547

    (1 post)
    135. Sorry but your wrong
    Sat Mar 16, 2024, 12:15 AM
    Mar 16

    At the end of the day these cases are about a former president of the united states who clearly indicated he was going to run again (and has subsequently secured the nomination). This is exactly the type of case the attorney general should be ALL OVER to ensure it is handled quickly and fairly. At the end of the day the American people have a right to know if the man that is going to be nominated by one of the two leading political parties of the country is a criminal or not.

    Garland excusing himself from almost all involvement (and thereby attempting to absolve himself of responsibility) isn't a shining beacon of impartiality but instead a failure of leadership and a horrific display of cowardice. Trump is really only involved in 4 cases not hundreds. He should be finding out what the status is of these cases and finding out if there is anything they need to provide to the state level cases all of the time and ensuring it is delivered promptly and accurately. That is leadership. Integrity means you don't play both sidesism. Integrity is realizing that these cases involve an ex-president of the united states and the public deserves to know before they vote. He clearly avoided that and tried to pretend that impartiality is to take no sides when his JOB is to take sides. He's the attorney general for heaven's sake, not a journalist and this is a former president of the united states with evidence against him that indicates he committed many crimes. To leave that to underlings is unconscionable and he has failed the American people.

    That being said, President Biden can't let him resign or fire him now because it would be too much right before the election but he shouldn't let him serve one minute in the next administration after he beats Trump again.

    Goodheart

    (5,351 posts)
    139. The apologists will come along to declare you a troll,
    Sat Mar 16, 2024, 08:11 AM
    Mar 16

    that because Garland prosecuted some low hanging fruit, or that because Garland was "weighing" an investigation into trump (as opposed to actually DOING anything), that he's just the perfect Attorney General at exactly the right time.

    The man should resign. Immediately. Failing that he should be fired. It would show gumption, for a change, that the public perceives is lacking in Joe Biden.

    Captain Zero

    (6,845 posts)
    143. Biden shouldn't accept a resignation now
    Sat Mar 16, 2024, 08:32 AM
    Mar 16

    Because next the right wing would start saying no one should be confirmed until After the election.

    They are just trying to disrupt what IS going on with investigation and Garland handing in his resignation would just give them more.

    If Garland would resign I predict no replacement. Then attacks on any "acting" AG to further disrupt the cases of Donald Trump.

    GreenWave

    (6,790 posts)
    152. Ali Primera once crooned...
    Sat Mar 16, 2024, 04:55 PM
    Mar 16

    ... Es tiempo ya de que el pueblo gane una. "It's time that the people finally won one."

    Emile

    (23,090 posts)
    153. Trump tried to overthrow our government and
    Sun Mar 17, 2024, 06:37 PM
    Mar 17

    his Vice President murdered. As soon as Garland became the DOJ he should have arrested the traitor.

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