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TomSlick

(11,232 posts)
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 10:15 PM Feb 2024

I'm watching the vote in Michigan and watched protests at lunch. I can't decide if I'm angry or simply worried.

I understand the "uncommitted" movement is a protest vote but it is counterproductive. The "uncommitted" push is patently anti-Democratic and anti-Biden.

I heard a woman saying on MSNBC earlier that she regretted voting for Biden against Trump because Biden hadn't done something about Israel's actions in Gaza. The protester I saw at noon with a sign that read "Genocide Joe Must Go" sent me over the edge.

Politics is a zero-sum game. Anything that weakens Biden strengthens Trump, even if it only means that Democratic voters stay home. If the protesters are unhappy with Biden, do they think things would be better under Trump?

61 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I'm watching the vote in Michigan and watched protests at lunch. I can't decide if I'm angry or simply worried. (Original Post) TomSlick Feb 2024 OP
I wonder who is funding this well planned and organized protest? Irish_Dem Feb 2024 #1
I don't doubt these people are sincere. They are just misguided. TomSlick Feb 2024 #2
Yes that is why I question the sincerity or motives. Irish_Dem Feb 2024 #3
They're sincere ITAL Feb 2024 #8
They are mostly people who have very little understanding of how Democracy works. lees1975 Feb 2024 #34
Single issue voters are their own kind of dangerous. TomSlick Feb 2024 #12
It is folly. Irish_Dem Feb 2024 #18
Their movement is a virulent hate campaign against Joe Biden dalton99a Feb 2024 #20
That is why I keep asking who is funding them. Irish_Dem Feb 2024 #24
Hamas, using the Russian social-media playbook dalton99a Feb 2024 #30
Has Putin's fingerprints on it. Irish_Dem Feb 2024 #33
Yep. dalton99a Feb 2024 #41
Please keep in mind that the 'uncommitted' vote is... Think. Again. Feb 2024 #9
The "Genocide Joe Must Go" protestor would suggest the contrary. TomSlick Feb 2024 #15
It shows an interest in punching holes in the only lifeboat. TheKentuckian Feb 2024 #35
Sincere in getting TSF back in the WH? Cha Feb 2024 #14
+1. The Genocide Joe propaganda started right after the Oct 7 massacre dalton99a Feb 2024 #17
This message was self-deleted by its author bamagal62 Feb 2024 #57
The "Listen to Michigan" spokesperson just said on MSNBC TomSlick Feb 2024 #4
Yeah.. So Neener Neener Neener to OUR DEMOCRACY. Cha Feb 2024 #16
the protestors could go to gaza and join hamas if they are so concerned nt msongs Feb 2024 #5
I want one host/hostess on my TV machine MOMFUDSKI Feb 2024 #6
It is not just a protest vote JI7 Feb 2024 #7
Wow... that's almost absurd... Think. Again. Feb 2024 #13
Muslim Americans are encountering LGBT+ issues in new spaces Mosby Feb 2024 #53
Anti-LGBT people are not exactly our base. Think. Again. Feb 2024 #58
That's inane. TomSlick Feb 2024 #22
You misunderstand. They are against lgbt rights JI7 Feb 2024 #25
Yes, I misunderstood. TomSlick Feb 2024 #26
Trump sides with Netanyahu blm Feb 2024 #10
The Genocide Joe smear is having an effect beyond the Palestinian community dalton99a Feb 2024 #11
Yup , the guy had no problem joining the US armed forces JI7 Feb 2024 #28
+1 betsuni Feb 2024 #55
Fuck these bullshit 'one issue' voters. nt GuppyGal Feb 2024 #19
The 'uncommitted' group is intended to protest against Netanyahu's current Gaza stance which, elleng Feb 2024 #21
To protest Netanyahu, they effectively vote for Trump, Netanyahu's biggest supporter. TomSlick Feb 2024 #23
They are NOT voting for tmp, this is the DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY. elleng Feb 2024 #27
They aren't voting Biden in November either JI7 Feb 2024 #29
Wanna bet? elleng Feb 2024 #31
yes JI7 Feb 2024 #36
Some will vote Biden. Some won't. All Mixed Up Feb 2024 #49
Some of them will, some of them won't DemocraticPatriot Feb 2024 #37
Again, politics is a zero-sum game. TomSlick Feb 2024 #39
What would you expect the President to do that he isn't already doing? lees1975 Feb 2024 #43
In another week or two, no one will remember this. DemocraticPatriot Feb 2024 #32
Pepperidge Farms will remember TheKentuckian Feb 2024 #38
Who ? DemocraticPatriot Feb 2024 #42
Family Guy reference... Lemonwurst Feb 2024 #44
My best friend would probably have known that.... DemocraticPatriot Feb 2024 #45
The protest vote gave us trump in 2016. Silent Type Feb 2024 #40
The general election protest vote, you mean.... DemocraticPatriot Feb 2024 #46
Yes. Thanks for clarification. Silent Type Feb 2024 #48
Not angry, not worried... Wounded Bear Feb 2024 #47
People voting against Biden in a Democratic primary is worrying and angering. TomSlick Feb 2024 #50
I don't buy that uncommitted is a vote against Pres Biden... Wounded Bear Feb 2024 #52
I hope you are correct. TomSlick Feb 2024 #59
I guess it depends on how many voters define "outliers" for you... Wounded Bear Feb 2024 #60
Not discouraged but I have decided that I am angry at these short sighted people. TomSlick Feb 2024 #61
They're Idiots for that Sign. Yeah, "Dump genocide Cha Feb 2024 #56
If it ends like this, you're right... All Mixed Up Feb 2024 #51
I'm think it is Germany 1932 and the Communist Party is attacking the Social Democrats as "Social Fascists" DBoon Feb 2024 #54

Irish_Dem

(50,560 posts)
1. I wonder who is funding this well planned and organized protest?
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 10:17 PM
Feb 2024

Who benefits.

Yes it is pro Trump and anti Democratic.

TomSlick

(11,232 posts)
2. I don't doubt these people are sincere. They are just misguided.
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 10:19 PM
Feb 2024

A vote for "uncommitted" is a vote for Trump. It's really that simple.

Irish_Dem

(50,560 posts)
3. Yes that is why I question the sincerity or motives.
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 10:20 PM
Feb 2024

It is simple and clear. They are working for Trump.

ITAL

(713 posts)
8. They're sincere
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 10:30 PM
Feb 2024

I have talked to several and they're absolutely committed. Arguing with them is like bashing your head into a wall.

lees1975

(4,072 posts)
34. They are mostly people who have very little understanding of how Democracy works.
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 10:58 PM
Feb 2024

They're not all that familiar with it and it doesn't really fit well with their culture, or their religion. So they think that if they have a single issue, they can demand that it go their way and if it doesn't, then they don't participate.

I get it. But do they get that what will happen, if they sabotage the re-election of the President, things will get much worse for the people of Gaza, and I mean much worse. Do they not understand that they lose their own political voice if the orange headed buffoon wins the election? He will not only make sure Gaza is destroyed, but he will come after them. Representative Tlaib will be among the very first victims of his vengeance.

How can they be told that?

TomSlick

(11,232 posts)
12. Single issue voters are their own kind of dangerous.
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 10:34 PM
Feb 2024

For them, nothing - NOTHING - is more important than their issue. They are perfectly content to burn down the house to advance their grievance.

They have a point, Bibi's actions in Gaza are reprehensible. However, no US President is going to cut off all aid to Israel. The protesters are unwilling to let Biden to work out of sight to actually accomplish something. They want dramatic action NOW. If they don't get what they demand now, they are prepared to see Trump elected just to show their resolve.

Irish_Dem

(50,560 posts)
18. It is folly.
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 10:40 PM
Feb 2024

Foolish and short sided.

They have fallen for the PutinGOP propaganda hook, line and sinker.

Biden has a line to walk and things take time.

Irish_Dem

(50,560 posts)
24. That is why I keep asking who is funding them.
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 10:50 PM
Feb 2024

And who is organizing and working with them?

This all happened way too fast to be just organic grass roots.

Irish_Dem

(50,560 posts)
33. Has Putin's fingerprints on it.
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 10:58 PM
Feb 2024

Hamas is getting a lot of help.

Putin wants Biden distracted by a war in the Middle East.
Causes Biden to lose votes.
And dilutes Ukrainian funding.

No wonder Putin has been so emboldened and happy lately.

Think. Again.

(10,273 posts)
9. Please keep in mind that the 'uncommitted' vote is...
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 10:32 PM
Feb 2024

...so far just for the primary, in which Biden has a very strong lead. These voters are, so far, uncommitted to any of the Democratic candidate nominee. The fact that they are voting at all in the primary shows some level of interest in voting.

We are not yet facing whether these voters will choose to not vote, or to vote for a republican candidate.

TomSlick

(11,232 posts)
15. The "Genocide Joe Must Go" protestor would suggest the contrary.
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 10:37 PM
Feb 2024

Such nutcases aside, it is a short step from voting for "uncommitted" in February to being uncommitted in November.

Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #1)

TomSlick

(11,232 posts)
4. The "Listen to Michigan" spokesperson just said on MSNBC
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 10:27 PM
Feb 2024

that if Trump wins in November, it will be Biden's fault for not doing what the pro-Palestinian protesters demand and somehow force a permanent ceasefire.

MOMFUDSKI

(6,387 posts)
6. I want one host/hostess on my TV machine
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 10:28 PM
Feb 2024

to remind these uncommitted voters that they will be the first tossed out of the country or put in a camp when TSF wins. I am not holding my breath. Nuts

JI7

(89,412 posts)
7. It is not just a protest vote
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 10:29 PM
Feb 2024

many were already not going to support Biden becsuse of lgbt issues.

They will not vote Biden in November either.

Think. Again.

(10,273 posts)
13. Wow... that's almost absurd...
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 10:35 PM
Feb 2024

...first of all, I haven't heard of ANYone choosing not to vote for Biden against trump over any LGBT 'issues'.

Mosby

(16,583 posts)
53. Muslim Americans are encountering LGBT+ issues in new spaces
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 11:51 PM
Feb 2024

And for some it's a bridge too far.

In heavily Democratic Dearborn, Mich., protests last year over LGBTQ+-themed books nearly shut down school board meetings. More recently, Muslim activists have tried unsuccessfully to get the Pride flag banned from city property.

Pride is not a religion, it is not something everyone has to celebrate or respect,” said Hassan Aoun, a Muslim Uber driver in Dearborn. “I respect people who are gay. They can do what they want. It’s a free country. ... But that doesn’t mean we have to put up a flag or shove it down people’s throats. It is clearly against Islam and we make up a lot of this community.”

Aoun, 42, said he usually voted for Democrats until gradually switching sides over the last decade over LGBTQ+ issues.


This summer was the first that, for weeks on end, our Friday khutbah [sermon] was focused on LGBTQ+ questions,” said Chouhoud. “I have never seen that before.”

That was in part spurred by an open letter that hundreds of American imams signed, titled “Navigating Differences,” a rare coming together of the biggest names in American Islam in an attempt to course-correct followers.

“We refuse the false choice between succumbing to social pressures to adopt views contrary to our beliefs or facing unfounded charges of bigotry,” the 1,289-word essay said.

Yasir Qadhi, a widely followed Islamic scholar who serves at the East Plano Islamic Center in Texas, was a lead writer of the notice.

“We have as Muslims been relatively quiet on LGBTQ topics because we thought there were bigger fish to fry, so to speak,” said Qadhi. “But then the issue was coming directly to our communities and involving schools and children.”


https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2023-09-25/lgbtq-muslims-evangelical-republican-christians

TomSlick

(11,232 posts)
22. That's inane.
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 10:47 PM
Feb 2024

It's a binary choice. Do they really think Trump will be better on LGBT issues?

This may be a Darwinian election. Protest voters may be the death of the republic.

JI7

(89,412 posts)
25. You misunderstand. They are against lgbt rights
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 10:50 PM
Feb 2024

They are protesting against schools teaching anything about the issues.

It's not just right wing white christians protesting drag queens.

blm

(113,287 posts)
10. Trump sides with Netanyahu
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 10:33 PM
Feb 2024

against the Palestinians and against Jewish progressives seeking peace.

Netanyahu wants Trump back.

dalton99a

(82,127 posts)
11. The Genocide Joe smear is having an effect beyond the Palestinian community
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 10:34 PM
Feb 2024

Exhibit A:

Aaron Bushnell, 25, died in the hospital after setting himself on fire outside the Israeli Embassy in Washington, D.C., on Sunday in what he said on social media was an act of protest against Israel's war in Gaza.

Bushnell was an active duty member of the U.S. Air Force and based in San Antonio, Texas, the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department said. He was pronounced dead at 8:06 p.m. ET Sunday.

JI7

(89,412 posts)
28. Yup , the guy had no problem joining the US armed forces
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 10:53 PM
Feb 2024

after what we have done. Especially with Iraq which we started.

But is angry over Israel going after those that attacked them and are still holding their people hostage.

elleng

(132,365 posts)
21. The 'uncommitted' group is intended to protest against Netanyahu's current Gaza stance which,
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 10:47 PM
Feb 2024

at the moment/so far, appears to be/has been followed by President Biden, NOTHING MORE. STOP the killing.

 

All Mixed Up

(597 posts)
49. Some will vote Biden. Some won't.
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 11:43 PM
Feb 2024

We don't have a breakdown of the 15% or so uncommitted but based on comments online and through the media (which I guess is hard to take at face value), there are a decent amount of people who won't vote for him. Will it be enough to cost him Michigan? Who knows?

DemocraticPatriot

(4,711 posts)
37. Some of them will, some of them won't
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 11:00 PM
Feb 2024

but I think women voting for their reproductive freedom in this state,
will make up the difference and THEN some....

I sympathize for what is happening in Gaza,
but what is happening in our OWN country is more important


TomSlick

(11,232 posts)
39. Again, politics is a zero-sum game.
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 11:03 PM
Feb 2024

Weakening Biden now strengthens Trump in November. Wittingly or unwittingly, they are voting for Trump.

lees1975

(4,072 posts)
43. What would you expect the President to do that he isn't already doing?
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 11:11 PM
Feb 2024

There was October 7th, which he cannot ignore, but which the Michigan uncommitted voters seem to ignore.

He cannot unilaterally change American foreign policy. He's pushing, as hard as possible, for a cease fire, for getting hostages out, and for stopping the war. What most of them are asking is unrealistic and politically impossible. Joe Biden is not responsible for what's going on in Gaza, but his remaining in office is the best hope the Palestinians have for a workable resolution to a problem no one who is alive now had anything to do with.

DemocraticPatriot

(4,711 posts)
32. In another week or two, no one will remember this.
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 10:57 PM
Feb 2024

And Trump will say something about his mother having given birth to the entire human race,
because he was sent here by God as a replacement for Jesus--

(or his people will say that)


DemocraticPatriot

(4,711 posts)
45. My best friend would probably have known that....
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 11:29 PM
Feb 2024

unfortunately, he died a few years ago. I miss him much.....

he was a big fan of that show


Wounded Bear

(59,083 posts)
47. Not angry, not worried...
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 11:33 PM
Feb 2024

Uncommitted is currently running at about 15% with Biden at around 80%. I'll take it.

trump is at 65% of his party, that sucks. Much worse.

If it ends up like this, I'm good. It's a primary, not the general.

TomSlick

(11,232 posts)
50. People voting against Biden in a Democratic primary is worrying and angering.
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 11:43 PM
Feb 2024

If I hadn't seen the "Dump Genocide Joe" protester, I might have been ok. Whether or not it is their intent, these "uncommitted voters" are providing aid and comfort to Trump and the MAGAts.

Wounded Bear

(59,083 posts)
52. I don't buy that uncommitted is a vote against Pres Biden...
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 11:50 PM
Feb 2024

If they were truly against, they would vote Phillips or repub. They had those choices and didn't.

Most of them will come home in November, when things like women's healthcare are on the ballot.

You do you, I'm not gonna sweat this.

TomSlick

(11,232 posts)
59. I hope you are correct.
Wed Feb 28, 2024, 08:58 PM
Feb 2024

The people I saw interviewed who said they would never vote for Biden were outliers - right?

Wounded Bear

(59,083 posts)
60. I guess it depends on how many voters define "outliers" for you...
Wed Feb 28, 2024, 09:14 PM
Feb 2024

We won Michingan 2020 with soft support from these groups, and I think we can win again. trump is losing 20-30% of his support in every primary so far. Their schism is far deeper than ours. Biden is pulling 80-90% of the base, trump is running 60-70%. Hard to win elections when your base is that soft. Women's issues alone should get us a majority of the undecideds, even more among women.

I'm not advocating complacency in any way here. We still have much work to do this summer to GOTV among an electorate with trump fatigue. Part of that is not allowing us to get discouraged by minor "setbacks" over reported by the press.

TomSlick

(11,232 posts)
61. Not discouraged but I have decided that I am angry at these short sighted people.
Wed Feb 28, 2024, 09:35 PM
Feb 2024

I don't know what to do about my anger. The people is Gaza are not responsible. Netanyahu is not responsible for the protest vote, although he is certainly happy that Trump may benefit.

President Biden will continue to work quietly do so something about Netanyahu's genocide in Gaza. However, Netanyahu will continue to resist so that he can continue in his genocide. The best hope lies with the people of Israel to move to salvage what is left of Israel's international standing.

Relying on the victims of a criminal attack to show restraint is not a strong position. Fortunately, President Biden is smarter and more experienced than I.

Cha

(299,437 posts)
56. They're Idiots for that Sign. Yeah, "Dump genocide
Wed Feb 28, 2024, 12:15 AM
Feb 2024

Joe" For Genocide Dictator Putin Puppet TSF.



And, we know this is Not Exaggeration.
 

All Mixed Up

(597 posts)
51. If it ends like this, you're right...
Tue Feb 27, 2024, 11:45 PM
Feb 2024

But Wayne County has barely reported and the results that have been reported show uncommitted at 24%, so, ten-points or so more than the overall state totals. That could inch it above 20% statewide once Wayne starts to report (assuming it remains at 24% there).

DBoon

(22,521 posts)
54. I'm think it is Germany 1932 and the Communist Party is attacking the Social Democrats as "Social Fascists"
Wed Feb 28, 2024, 12:01 AM
Feb 2024

Soon leaders of both the Communists and the Social Democrats will both be sent to concentration camps.

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