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Eliot Rosewater

(31,179 posts)
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 08:49 PM Feb 2024

God I don't understand why we aren't tougher on Netanyahu

I just don’t get it.

I will be the first to tell you to shut up if you criticize our president or our party for any reason during these times but this one’s got me just confused as hell.

And not to compare the two but how in the fuck is DeJoy still in power!

51 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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God I don't understand why we aren't tougher on Netanyahu (Original Post) Eliot Rosewater Feb 2024 OP
I have the same questions montanacowboy Feb 2024 #1
DeJoy is in power because the board he oversees supports him. All Mixed Up Feb 2024 #2
I thought Rebl2 Feb 25 #43
Israel has always been a very complicated issue for the United States Walleye Feb 2024 #3
He is a hardline and right wing head of state so that should not be a shocker TheKentuckian Feb 2024 #16
Good points. I don't know nearly enough about the region or situation Walleye Feb 2024 #26
Like how our allies were hard on us when dump was in office? nt GuppyGal Feb 2024 #4
Or Bush for that matter. All Mixed Up Feb 2024 #6
"Freedom Fries!" 🙄 electric_blue68 Feb 25 #45
AIPAC is a huge factor. Sky Jewels Feb 2024 #5
This message was self-deleted by its author Celerity Feb 2024 #18
Remember the days when called out these dual-loyalty attacks? Lancero Feb 2024 #21
It's antisemitism Mountainguy Feb 2024 #23
No, it isn't. AIPAC DID endorse 109 Rethugs who voted to oveturn Biden's 2020 election win & who still push The Big Lie. Celerity Feb 24 #33
Woah! I didn't know that. Well, Shame on AIPAC, then. And TY J Street. electric_blue68 Feb 25 #46
Dumbo ears needs to go DC77 Feb 2024 #7
The Biden administration has been quite BootinUp Feb 2024 #8
DeJoy knows how to survive in a corporation. He's made calculated decisions based on what master he served ... marble falls Feb 2024 #9
DeJoy has the support of the Board of Governors. All Mixed Up Feb 2024 #10
Like I said, DeJoy is a good manager who knows how to adapt to a change in conditions. Personally he may well ... marble falls Feb 2024 #11
I am sure if he could end voting by mail he would. Eliot Rosewater Feb 2024 #12
A lot of people would. Fortunately DeJoy has no hand in that decision. marble falls Feb 2024 #13
NOt officially but he could make it very difficult for ballots to get where they need to go, if he Eliot Rosewater Feb 2024 #27
You mean go personally into all post offices and not have the press pick up on the fact the Post Master General ... marble falls Feb 2024 #29
Agreed. You don't win over multiple parties if you're not good at what you do. All Mixed Up Feb 2024 #15
I really don't see much, if any, support for Netanyahu on DU. Beastly Boy Feb 2024 #14
Have you ever been to Israel? former9thward Feb 2024 #25
Ohhhh? ..... marble falls Feb 2024 #30
Yes, and I remember the huge marches against Bush at the start of the Iraq war. former9thward Feb 24 #35
What does Bush have to do with Netanyahu. Bush did not a large victory, never been tried along with his ... marble falls Feb 24 #36
Israel has multiple parties unlike the US. LeftInTX Feb 25 #48
He always wins. Far right politics are popular with the growing population of Mizrahi Jews who are now the majority LeftInTX Feb 25 #47
A long time ago, but I keep up. Beastly Boy Feb 24 #32
Three times. former9thward Feb 24 #34
Ok, here's a "now" poll: Beastly Boy Feb 24 #37
Yes, and how is Gantz any different that Netanyahu on the war? former9thward Feb 24 #38
I thought you were addressing Netanyahu, as I was. Beastly Boy Feb 24 #39
ohhhh? Part 2 .... marble falls Feb 25 #40
Not sure what the point is? former9thward Feb 25 #41
Two Things I Can Think Of ProfessorGAC Feb 2024 #17
Simple clear fact. marble falls Feb 2024 #31
Joe needs the Jewish vote. If this was MOMFUDSKI Feb 2024 #19
You are wrong. madaboutharry Feb 2024 #22
Many Jews 'including in Israel don't care much for Netanyahu JI7 Feb 25 #42
I suspect it was a gamble that the US would have more leverage that way karynnj Feb 2024 #20
Good points. I'd add that there's been a lot of disinfo about Biden's actual actions Arazi Feb 2024 #24
There is a similarity... In both cases changing Israeli and USPS leadership isn't within Biden's power. AnrothElf Feb 2024 #28
Joe Biden-He is not a shoe salesman LetMyPeopleVote Feb 25 #44
We automatically approve funding for Israel. It's rubber stamped. It comes up for review every 10 years. LeftInTX Feb 25 #49
The Israel lobby in DC is very very strong... end of story. WarGamer Feb 25 #50
as for "tougher on Netanyahu... agingdem Feb 25 #51

Rebl2

(13,678 posts)
43. I thought
Sun Feb 25, 2024, 12:13 PM
Feb 25

I read there are two openings on that board that Biden needs to fill. Wonder why he hasn’t, if that is true.

Walleye

(31,240 posts)
3. Israel has always been a very complicated issue for the United States
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 08:52 PM
Feb 2024

But I’m with you. Bibi is acting like you would expect any right wing head of state to behave.I don’t know what we could do to make Netanyahu change his ways, threaten him? Plus we are the world’s weapons supplier

TheKentuckian

(25,035 posts)
16. He is a hardline and right wing head of state so that should not be a shocker
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 09:42 PM
Feb 2024

what I am less clear on is what someone much more generally reasonable or even liberal would do that is dramatically different in this specific situation.

To me destroying the capacity of Hamas to continue to threaten Israeli civilians is not a left or right issue at all but rather an absolute duty that needs to be settled up quickly because likely Hezbollah is the more dangerous threat and they need to be ready to deal with them without the distraction of Hamas.

Walleye

(31,240 posts)
26. Good points. I don't know nearly enough about the region or situation
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 10:57 PM
Feb 2024

It just seems to me that no matter what we do we are going to be in perceived to be in the wrong.

 

All Mixed Up

(597 posts)
6. Or Bush for that matter.
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 08:57 PM
Feb 2024

Sure, there was a spell where France kinda pissed us off for not supporting the Iraq War but that was very brief.

Sky Jewels

(7,235 posts)
5. AIPAC is a huge factor.
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 08:54 PM
Feb 2024

They have most politicians on both sides by the short hairs. In my book, they are right up there with the NRA for being a horrible, right wing organization that promotes policies leading to the death and destruction of countless innocents.

Response to Sky Jewels (Reply #5)

Lancero

(3,028 posts)
21. Remember the days when called out these dual-loyalty attacks?
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 10:04 PM
Feb 2024
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/21/us/politics/jews-disloyal-trump.html

Sad to see that so many now echoing the same Trumpian bullshit that we were once proud to call out, not even five years back.

Mountainguy

(618 posts)
23. It's antisemitism
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 10:17 PM
Feb 2024

This post will probably get alerted and maybe even deleted but I'm not going to not call it out when I see it.

Accusing Jews of dual-loyalty is antisemitic.

https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/straight-talk-charge-jewish-disloyalty

Celerity

(43,980 posts)
33. No, it isn't. AIPAC DID endorse 109 Rethugs who voted to oveturn Biden's 2020 election win & who still push The Big Lie.
Sat Feb 24, 2024, 12:24 AM
Feb 24

To point that out is NOT 'antisemitic'. It is a fact.

You may not like it being pointed out, but that in no way makes it untrue, and certainly does not make it 'antisemitic'.

I see 'antisemitic' falsely tossed around far too often here in an attempt to weaponise it as a tool to intimidate posters and stifle debate, to silence people that the person weilding it in such fashion simply disagrees with.

The actual main effect that using it in such a false manner is that it cheapens the word and concept, hollows it out, stretches it so thinly that it loses both meaning and impact even when correctly used.



AIPAC FULLY EMBRACES ANTI-DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES, ENDORSES VAST MAJORITY OF REPS THAT VOTED TO OVERTURN ELECTION ON JAN 6

In response to AIPAC’s political action committee announcement that it now endorses 109 anti-democratic Members of Congress who voted against certifying Joe Biden’s election as president following the attempted insurrection on January 6, 2021, J Street’s National Political Director Laura Birnbaum issued the following statement:

https://jstreet.org/press-releases/aipac-fully-embraces-anti-democratic-candidates-endorses-vast-majority-of-reps-that-voted-to-overturn-election-on-jan-6/

“Since announcing earlier this year that they had endorsed over three dozen Members of Congress who voted to overturn the presidential election results on January 6, AIPAC has faced strong condemnation and criticism from prominent Jewish communal leaders and commentators, including several of their own former senior staff. Yet instead of reversing course, they have now tripled down – endorsing 109 anti-democratic Members of Congress. They have sent a clear message that they do not care about the future of American democracy, and that they are ready to raise millions of dollars for those who empower and excuse insurrection.

“AIPAC’s support for these candidates undermines the true interests and values of millions of American Jews and pro-Israel Americans who AIPAC often claims to represent. Elected officials who threaten the very future of our country should be completely beyond the pale – whatever their views on Israel.

“While AIPAC claims to solely care about one issue, the truth is that by spending millions of dollars to support far-right Republicans, they are deliberately choosing to undermine democracy and harmfully impact our politics at a critical moment in the history of our country. Claims of ‘bipartisanship’ cannot excuse support for candidates who only respect election results when their party wins.

“J Street has repeatedly urged all pro-Israel PACs to take a “Democracy Pledge” to never support such anti-democratic candidates. We will continue to do all that we can to support elected officials who are prepared to uphold and defend democracy both in the US and in Israel, and to confront those who falsely claim to speak for the American Jewish and pro-Israel communities.” The full list of AIPAC-endorsed candidates who voted to overturn the election results on January 6 can be found here. In total, AIPAC now endorses over two-thirds of all those who sided with the insurrectionists.






J STREET CALLS ON FELLOW PRO-ISRAEL PACS TO JOIN THEM IN PLEDGE NOT TO SUPPORT CANDIDATES WHO THREATEN AMERICAN DEMOCRACY

https://jstreet.org/press-releases/j-street-calls-on-fellow-pro-israel-pacs-to-join-them-in-pledge-not-to-support-candidates-who-threaten-american-democracy/

snip



An Introduction to J Street

electric_blue68

(15,080 posts)
46. Woah! I didn't know that. Well, Shame on AIPAC, then. And TY J Street.
Sun Feb 25, 2024, 02:30 PM
Feb 25

I remember being happy to hear about J Street some years back. 👍

DC77

(107 posts)
7. Dumbo ears needs to go
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 08:57 PM
Feb 2024

Why is he still there? Isn’t he supposed to be in jail for corruption? Not many people like him. He barely won last time. This is why elections matter!

BootinUp

(47,260 posts)
8. The Biden administration has been quite
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 08:59 PM
Feb 2024

Honest about it IMHO. You can either believe them or not. Secondly, no matter what any activists here or anywhere *think* they know, the people in the administration know more. Lastly, Joe is doing the job we hired him to do and nobody can do it any better IMHO.

marble falls

(57,909 posts)
9. DeJoy knows how to survive in a corporation. He's made calculated decisions based on what master he served ...
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 09:02 PM
Feb 2024

... TFG and then Joe Biden. Maybe he took the machinations to pull him down seriously. He's still a splinter in my craw, but I haven't seen any negative thing about him in over a year. It seems like the plans to close 1000s of small post offices in small towns across the US has been abandoned.

I think he is a pure manager with no overt political bend. I think he takes the mandate he's been given and manages accordingly. He got a new director and he's adopted a new direction.

 

All Mixed Up

(597 posts)
10. DeJoy has the support of the Board of Governors.
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 09:07 PM
Feb 2024

There was an idea that once Biden replaced the members (Biden has nominated five of the seven governors on the board), they'd oust him - but they clearly don't believe he should be ousted so to them, he must be doing something right.

marble falls

(57,909 posts)
11. Like I said, DeJoy is a good manager who knows how to adapt to a change in conditions. Personally he may well ...
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 09:11 PM
Feb 2024

... be a MAGA hatted scotch swiller, but he seems to know how to separate his private life from his professional career.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,179 posts)
27. NOt officially but he could make it very difficult for ballots to get where they need to go, if he
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 11:11 PM
Feb 2024

hasnt already.

marble falls

(57,909 posts)
29. You mean go personally into all post offices and not have the press pick up on the fact the Post Master General ...
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 11:31 PM
Feb 2024

... is committing felony election fraud in a conspiracy? Why would he do this???

marble falls

(57,909 posts)
30. Ohhhh? .....
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 11:38 PM
Feb 2024

They are protesting him for a myriad of reasons

https://www.npr.org › 2023 › 07 › 22 › 1189627225 › israel-protests-netanyahu-judiciary
Hundreds of thousands march in Israel against Netanyahu's ... - NPR
Jul 22, 2023Thousands of Israelis march along a highway toward Jerusalem in protest of plans by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government to overhaul the judicial system, near Abu Gosh, Israel, on Saturday.

https://www.reuters.com › world › middle-east › protesters-outside-israeli-pm-netanyahus-house-anger-grows-2023-11-04
Protesters mass outside Netanyahu's house as anger grows
Nov 5, 2023The protest, which coincided with a poll showing more than three quarters of Israelis believe Netanyahu should resign, underlined the growing public fury at their political and security leaders.

https://abcnews.go.com › International › israeli-protests-netanyahus-judicial-reform-plan-explained › story?id=98148726
Here's why Israelis are protesting Benjamin Netanyahu's judicial ...
Mar 27, 2023Israelis are protesting against a judicial reform plan proposed by Netanyahu's hardline nationalist government -- a plan that some see as a consolidation of power, with parliament increasing its ...

https://www.nytimes.com › 2024 › 02 › 17 › world › middleeast › tel-aviv-protest-netanyahu-israel.html
Tel Aviv Protesters Show Anger Toward Netanyahu and Israel's Government ...
6 days agoLarge Antigovernment Protest Returns to Tel Aviv, as Criticism of Netanyahu Mounts. The demonstrations took a pause after the Oct. 7 attacks, but the anger at the Israeli leadership never went away.

https://www.bbc.com › news › world-middle-east-64362652
Israelis stage giant protest against Netanyahu court reform - BBC
Jan 21, 2023Israelis stage giant protest against Netanyahu court reform. An estimated 110,000 people have packed the streets of Tel Aviv, in one of Israel's biggest anti-government protests in the past decade ...

https://apnews.com › article › israel-protest-netanyahu-courts-c986101a5d80e9dce1bc2d4c59f834bb
Israelis block roads in protest against Netanyahu legal plan
Israelis have blocked roads and demonstrated against a contentious government plan to overhaul the judiciary. The protesters hope Thursday's events will ramp up pressure on lawmakers days after parliament reconvened following a month-long recess. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu paused the overhaul in March after intense pressure and the opposing sides are trying to reach a compromise ...

https://www.nbcnews.com › news › world › israel-protests-netanyahu-judicial-reforms-rcna76942
What to know about the Israeli protests over Netanyahu's judicial reforms
Mar 28, 2023Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at the Knesset on Monday. Marc Israel Sellem / AFP - Getty Images Mass protests began soon after, with tens of thousands marching in Jerusalem and Tel ...

https://apnews.com › article › israel-legal-courts-corruption-netanyahu-40c11160c9a93cc717dcf61eed52dda6
Mass protests erupt after Netanyahu fires defense chief
The State Department dismissed as "completely false" claims repeated by Yair Netanyahu, the prime minister's son, that the U.S. government was financing these protests. Leaders of Israel's vibrant high-tech industry have said the changes will scare away investors, former top security officials have spoken out against the plan and key ...

https://apnews.com › article › israel-protests-judiciary-us-netanyahu-embassy-a9d6aa267f14a9136a4b5135690d87f4
Thousands protest outside US offices in Tel Aviv, say Netanyahu ...
Jul 13, 2023A man waves Israeli and U.S. flags during a protest against plans by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's new government to overhaul the judicial system, outside of the U.S. Embassy Branch Office in Tel Aviv, Israel on Thursday, July 13, 2023. ... business leaders, LGBTQ+ and other

former9thward

(32,241 posts)
35. Yes, and I remember the huge marches against Bush at the start of the Iraq war.
Sat Feb 24, 2024, 09:52 AM
Feb 24

And he was easily re-elected the next year.

marble falls

(57,909 posts)
36. What does Bush have to do with Netanyahu. Bush did not a large victory, never been tried along with his ...
Sat Feb 24, 2024, 10:25 AM
Feb 24

... son for corruption like Netanyahu, ......

Nice try at deflection. The point was your claim Israeli's unconditionally love him. My post disputes that as malarky. How many times did he have make deals with other parties to make a government to keep from another election? Why didn't the Israelis ever love him enough to keep him from having to make deals with other parties to keep his government standing?

How many coalition governments has he had? How many fell forcing elections? Popularity would have prevented that.

Do you think Bush was legitimately elected? Is there an Israeli equivalent of "Swiftboating"? Did Netanyahu use it?

LeftInTX

(25,944 posts)
48. Israel has multiple parties unlike the US.
Sun Feb 25, 2024, 02:48 PM
Feb 25

They form coalitions. His party does not need a majority to win.
As long other parties form coalitions with Likud, he stays in power.

LeftInTX

(25,944 posts)
47. He always wins. Far right politics are popular with the growing population of Mizrahi Jews who are now the majority
Sun Feb 25, 2024, 02:45 PM
Feb 25

Mizrahi Jews are Jews of Middle Eastern descent.

There are several far right parties who form coalitions with Likud.
Bibi gets back in due to those coalitions.

former9thward

(32,241 posts)
34. Three times.
Sat Feb 24, 2024, 09:51 AM
Feb 24

And to the West Bank, Gaza, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt several times. Israel is based on coalition politics and if his coalition wants him gone he will be gone. Your poll is "after the war". Not now.

former9thward

(32,241 posts)
38. Yes, and how is Gantz any different that Netanyahu on the war?
Sat Feb 24, 2024, 01:38 PM
Feb 24

There is not a millimeter of difference between the two.

Beastly Boy

(9,636 posts)
39. I thought you were addressing Netanyahu, as I was.
Sat Feb 24, 2024, 02:47 PM
Feb 24

And yes, Ganttz is very different.

For starters, he doesn't have corruption accusations to divert from.

marble falls

(57,909 posts)
40. ohhhh? Part 2 ....
Sun Feb 25, 2024, 11:12 AM
Feb 25

Police Use Water Cannons Against Anti-Government Protesters in Tel Aviv

The Times of Israel
February 24, 2024


Police used water cannons against anti-government protesters while clashing with them in Tel Aviv on Saturday night, as demonstrators at a nearby rally calling for the return of hostages held in Gaza expressed rare optimism following reported progress in talks on a hostage deal with Hamas.

The clashes, the most violent of their kind since the outbreak of war on October 7, resulted in 21 arrests and several injuries Saturday night on Kaplan Street, opposite the Kirya army base, which is the headquarters of Israel's defense establishment.

[snip]

Video showed one mounted officer using the reins of his horse to strike a protester across his head.

The demonstrator was then seen falling to the ground while clutching his head, as the officer rode on.


More:
https://timesofisrael.com/as-hope-for-a-deal-fills-hostages-square-chaos-erupts-at-nearby-anti-netanyahu-rally/

former9thward

(32,241 posts)
41. Not sure what the point is?
Sun Feb 25, 2024, 11:37 AM
Feb 25

Yes, Israel is a democracy where people protest. Unlike most of its dictatorship neighbors, including Gaza, where protestors are shot down or otherwise executed.

ProfessorGAC

(65,607 posts)
17. Two Things I Can Think Of
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 09:45 PM
Feb 2024

America doesn't run Israel, to the first question.
DeJoy isn't that powerful, so not much a threat, is my guess as to the 2nd question.

MOMFUDSKI

(5,906 posts)
19. Joe needs the Jewish vote. If this was
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 09:52 PM
Feb 2024

end of January 2025 the shit would be hitting the fan. Timing is ALWAYS everything.

madaboutharry

(40,252 posts)
22. You are wrong.
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 10:11 PM
Feb 2024

1. President Biden does not need to pander to American Jews. Nearly 80% of American Jews are democrats and their vote is solid.

2. It is fair to say that the majority of American Jews would be very pleased if Netanyahu resigned, like by tomorrow.

karynnj

(59,522 posts)
20. I suspect it was a gamble that the US would have more leverage that way
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 10:03 PM
Feb 2024

The US has always been very reluctant to not protect Israel in the UN. Remember that at the end of the Obama administration, it was a BIG deal that the US abstained on a resolution that was 100 percent in keeping with US policy and it included sentences that spoke of Palestinian transgressions. The outrage from Israel and AIPAC was quick and loud.

This time, the problem was there was an outrageous Hamas attack before the war. This led to the initial response of sympathy by Biden the image of which has colored the perspective that he was 100 percent behind Israel. I wonder whether Biden's national security team also thought they could temper Netanyahu's response more if they were seen as sympathetic. In reality, Netanyahu is a liar and can't be believed.

The problem now is that the small corrections in our position though more balanced than decades of US policy are still seen as supporting Netanyahu.

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
24. Good points. I'd add that there's been a lot of disinfo about Biden's actual actions
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 10:18 PM
Feb 2024

So even a substantial number of Dems don’t know what he’s done to pressure Netanyahu/Israel, or his work on getting aid freed up, or his work trying to pull together a postwar plan for Gaza etc.

There’s been a catapult of propaganda (heh, Bush*) on social media platforms like TikTok and once that avalanche started, it’s been impossible to get any truth to penetrate through the persistent shitstorm.

It’s also Biden’s way to work behind the scenes and say little until the deal making is finished. He/his comms team need to make the effort to report progress over and over

AnrothElf

(748 posts)
28. There is a similarity... In both cases changing Israeli and USPS leadership isn't within Biden's power.
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 11:26 PM
Feb 2024

Israel is, of course, a foreign country, with one of the world's most direct democracies (read: MOB RULE). Biden, as head of state, represents the entire US when dealing with Netanyahoo, who, likewise, represents HIS entire nation. When you say that "we" need to be harder on Netanyahoo, the problem is "we" can't really do that without being harder on Israel, in general -- our only ostensible ally in the region.

What "we" CAN do is speak state-to-state in the language of diplomacy. It's worked in the past. Meanwhile, "we" can also encourage Israelis to agitate against their democratically-elected leader, and eventually vote him the fuck out.

Know who CAN'T do all that? Biden can't. Trustfund babies wearing Amazon keffiyehs and screaming "from the river to the sea" can't do that.

Most importantly... Gazans can't do that TO THEIR OWN LEADERS. Where are the cries from Gazans for Hamas to surrender? Where are the anti-Hamas marches by keffiyah-wearing entitled Westerners? For that matter... where are the anti-Hamas marches by fucking GAZANS for fuck's sake?!

*crickets*

As for the USPS, it's a well-known fact that it's governed by an independent board. Biden can try to meddle in board politics to get DeJoy booted, but he's not some kind of authoritarian like Netanyahoo.

agingdem

(7,891 posts)
51. as for "tougher on Netanyahu...
Sun Feb 25, 2024, 03:08 PM
Feb 25

Joe Biden is not the shadow president of Israel...he holds very little sway as does every other foreign leader...he can advise, send diplomats, write sternly worded emails, place sanctions on aid to Israel but that's it...the pro-Palestine crowd can stage protests, tear down hostage posters, vandalize synagogues/Jewish community centers, display overt antisemitism, target/harass Jewish college students but Israel will do whatever it takes to secure it's borders and survive...

As for DeJoy…he (Trump and Barr) did his damnedest to “fix” the 2020 election in Trump’s favor..he slowed down the mail, trashed mail sorters, removed mailboxes…and yet, Biden won…I suspect once Joe wins a second term DeJoy’s days are numbered

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