My sister doesn't believe E. Jean Carroll.

[TSExile]

A few weeks back, I posted about a blowup I had with my sister and her husband about that man. I said that anyone who supports him is pro-rape. Needless to say, it didn't go over very well and I wound up fleeing their house in tears.

I just overheard a conversation my folks were having. Dad told Mom he just got off the phone with Sis. He mentioned that Sis had said it was awfully fishy that E. Jean couldn't remember the date, that there was no security footage, etc.

I have posted several times on this forum that I am a survivor of sexual assault - by a man who I had implicitly trusted and thought was my friend. I had known him (or thought I knew him) for nearly a decade. She knows that.

For years, I have wondered why I never felt comfortable confiding in my sister about my ordeal. Now I think I know why. 💔🔪

[niyad]

1. Hugggggs. I cannot even imagine what you are going through, but please

remember that you are not alone here.

[TSExile]

2. Thank you, my friend.

[Cha]

3. That's heartbreaking from our own families bc Traitor can do no wrong.

The important thing as far as E Jean Carroll is that the Jury believed her 3 times.

[ShazzieB]

38. More than one jury even!

[sheshe2]

4. I am so sorry for your pain, TSExile.

[emulatorloo]

5. I'm really sorry you're having to deal with this. So hard.

[spooky3]

6. I'm very sorry for your experiences and I'm glad you aren't letting

Anyone gaslight you.

[calimary]

7. Well, never mind, then. You always have us, here!

You'll find quite a few sisters-in-spirit here (like me)!

[limbicnuminousity]

8. That is terrible TSExile and I am sorry for your pain.

Honestly, to hell with family members who don't know how to be supportive when it matters. You deserve better.

[Permanut]

25. +1,000

[spanone]

9. A JURY WITH 7 MEN & 2 WOMEN

[spooky3]

29. Two unanimous juries! Nt

[JI7]

34. Wasn't it 6 white men ?

I think 1 black man.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

10. No matter what happened to any of us, we still

have the right to believe or not believe don't we? I believe her. So did a jury!!!

[SleeplessinSoCal]

40. And so did her friends she told at the time. n/t

[progressoid]

11. fishy because she "couldn't remember the date" is a horrible thing to say.

It's like how apologists would dismiss the crimes of clergy because the victims came forward decades after the fact.

[claudette]

12. Actually

Does anyone believe they have "security footage" in a woman's dressing room in a department store? I think not.

[niyad]

51. They DAMNED WELL better not!!!

[claudette]

57. Yep

[Arazi]

13. I can't wait to read his obituary when he dies in prison

He’s done so much damage to our relationships and our country.

I’m so very sorry 😞

[OverBurn]

42. +

[DENVERPOPS]

14. during the W years

I disowned many Republican friends and family.....some of the friends going back 40-50 years

[Maru Kitteh]

15. My sister is kind of a monster too. It hurts. You were robbed of a sacred relationship that many

people enjoy and too many take for granted. I'm always envious of people who have tight bonds with their siblings. It's hard.

[Joinfortmill]

16. I am so sorry. Take heart, you are on the side of righteousness.

I am a woman of a certain age, and 'things' happened to most of us. Talking about it was taboo because the stigma was the woman's to wear, a Scarlet Letter, if you will. These experiences are highly traumatic, remembering details is emotionally painful at best. Take care of yourself.

[SouthernDem4ever]

17. I know this may not make you feel better but you're not alone.

I have family just like that. No empathy and willful ignorance.

[lovebugg]

18. The jury believed her so that's all that mattered in the case

What anyone else really thinks doesn't matter and I'm sure she doesn't care. She going to maybe get a lot of money after a few years if the appeals process loses'

As to the date I don't think many questioned if it was real because of the date . It was the year she changed after the dress
she had on the magazine cover claiming it was the original one she wearing and had Trumps DNA on it.

The designer was contacted and said the dress wasn't available until early 1995 for the retail market and she said
the assault must have been 1995 then changed it again to maybe 1996

I think that with claiming she had his DNA on it and the dress mistakes and the Law Order episode that played on TV
of the woman being raped in that same dept store changing room probably had a lot to do with it.

Good thing was all this stuff the judge ruled was inadmissible during the trial so it helped her out .

[Botany]

19. E. J. C. had a sample of Trump's DNA and if Donny was innocent then all he had to do was give some DNA

Btw I hate rapists.

[lovebugg]

20. exactly

My opinion that was the deciding factor in the case for the jury

Trump wasn't there in the court room but his counsel was asked if Trump didn't do it and wasn't there
why has refused to provide a DNA sample for the last 2.5 years?

Seems all he had to do and this case never would have made it to trial and none of would be here now .
The jury wasn't stupid

[SWBTATTReg]

47. Didn't know that they asked this of tRUMP's attorney. Thanks for the update. Gosh, there's so much going on.

[Wild blueberry]

21. Please allow yourself to channel E Jean Carroll's courage and vindication

She did that for all of us. You have the right to share in this victory.
You have a family at DU. Cheers!

[TSExile]

22. I really would like to take my sister to the mat on this.

Unfortunately, I am too emotional and triggered to ever make what I feel inside come out of my mouth in a way that is clear and concise. I wish I really could tell her off - and convince her that she is wrong!!

My sister, even though she is a couple of years younger, kind of has a bit of a superiority complex. Also, we don't look or sound anything alike, nor do we have many common interests. I have never married and have no children. She's been married over 20 with 4 kids ranging in age from 5 to 17. The younger two have ADHD and autism, respectively. She and her husband both work full-time, demanding jobs.

I still wonder why she didn't come to my side after I revealed what happened. Still, with her attitude about E. Jean Carroll, it's probably for the best.

[MustLoveBeagles]

23. It hurts when family isn't supportive

I'm sorry for what you've endured. You have support here.

[pnwmom]

24. I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks there should be cameras in dressing rooms is an idiot. nt

[Retrograde]

26. But a jury believed her

and that's what counts

[NoMoreRepugs]

27. Had the SlobFather given a sample of his rancid DNA it would have

been impossible for his lies to hold water.

[JI7]

35. THese people would have come up with another excuse

and make up some conspiracy .

He admitted himself he sexually assaults women and they still support him.

[live love laugh]

28. Be grateful for the people who do support and believe you.

It’s hard to accept that there are awful people but the sooner we do, the better off we are.

[dawn5651]

30. i am so sorry your sister doesn't believe e. jean caroll..i do i have from the first. this is a

subject that women seldom lie about and when they do the courts treat them harshly as they should. i am so sorry that you feel your sister wouldn't believe you, i tend to agree, the vibe she gives off even thru the typed word is frankly shocking. i hope that she never feels the hopelessness that you feel after being raped..sexual assault is so mild a phrase. i hope that you are receiving therapy for what that monster did to you. my heart goes out to you.

[TSExile]

31. What does E. Jean Carroll gain by lying?

Why would she go through all that crap - slander, libel, death threats and the like - IF IT WASN'T TRUE? Why would anyone????

People simply do not want to hear the truth. I guess as long as you have an R after your name and not a D, it's all good..

[Johonny]

32. The jury didnt agree

And Trump’s own words helped convince them.

[Emile]

33. So is she is a weak on crime republican?

[Evolve Dammit]

36. I am so sorry for your experience and losing a sister to the propaganda. Does she remember dates from 35 years ago??

Two juries have decided. That's not something anyone goes through lightly. Take care.

[SpankMe]

37. You have my support and sympathies

Exact date? Security camera footage? How many rape victims are going to be able to produce that?

And yet we have the exact date (Jan 6) plus ample security camera footage of a literal insurrection...but huge swaths of Repubs STILL claim it was a tourist romp, or didn't happen.

I mean no disrespect to your family, but I'm disappointed and alarmed that they would treat you this way and not give you all the support you deserve.

Ail my best to you.

[hadEnuf]

39. Yes, it's fishy that Trump did not perform his rape in front of a security camera. Isn't that what all rapists do?

And shame on E. Jean Carroll for not taking notes during the assault!



People grabbing at straws to justify a piece of crap like Trump have no idea how silly they look and how much they hurt victims who have been in similar circumstances.

[Ohioboy]

41. Back in 1996 there weren't as many security cameras as there are today

It was a lot easier for "Stars" to get away with it.

[niyad]

52. Please tell me where there are security cameras in store dressing rooms

today, so that I may cross them off my shopping list.

[OverBurn]

43. I know Miss E. Jean Carroll can afford it, but I'd like to buy Her drink.

[CousinIT]

44. There are no cameras in dressing rooms (or at least I'd hope not!)

Regardless of that, most sexual assaults and rapes are not caught on camera.

Your sister is being grossly insensitive and willfully ignorant.

My sister - whose husband (my BiL) is now thankfully dead and who molested me a few times between the ages of 9 and 13, sent me something in the mail for my birthday: the program from his memorial service. ON MY BIRTHDAY. She forgot my birthday but remembered to send me THAT. It had a bunch of BS in it about "the Lord" and God and such - a creepy eulogy from her creepy son (that boy has grievance issues like all MAGAs). I immediately put it in the damn shredder.

My sister thinks I should "forgive and forget" that he ever did that to me. He got honors from the VA for having served in the Air Force when younger. Nice burial service from DoD for free. Pedophiles get "honored". Their victims get told to "forgive and forget". And yea she knew about it. My mother told her. She didn't believe it. My guess is she still doesn't. Or, she doesn't give a damn. Either way...I won't talk about this to her. I also will NOT forgive or forget. And I had a few words for that "God" of theirs about this shit.

But I'm being selfish here and digressing. Suffice to say welcome to the world of insensitive and willfully ignorant sisters. For my birthday I ordered myself something that says on it: "To Thine Own Self Be True". It's what E. Jean Carrol did. We can too. We know the truth.

[Pacifist Patriot]

45. As a sexual assault survivor, I cannot abide the ignorant judgment that demands details.

I was brutally raped in my college dorm room when I was 17. Although I know it was in October, I cannot recall the exact date. I assume it was on a weekend, but don't know if it was a Friday or Saturday. I know it happened late at night but could not tell you if it was before or after midnight. I remember my rapist's first name, but not his last. Doesn't change the fact that it happened. And fuck anyone who negates it because my mind has chosen not to retain every last detail with crystal clarity.

I'm so sorry this has caused pain within your family, who should support you unconditionally.

[TSExile]

46. I am so sorry.

Mine happened in October as well, and it was a Sunday because not two hours before I had been at church. I remember the date (October 11, 2015) and that the Browns and Ravens played (that was the football game that was on right before it happened). It's after that when the details go fuzzy. I don't even remember driving home, which route I took, etc.

Big hugs to you...I get it.

[LiberalFighter]

56. With that much stress it would be difficult to remember details.

[Pacifist Patriot]

63. Exactly. And it isn't a memory one wants to preserve in detail.

Last edited Sat Feb 3, 2024, 02:16 PM - Edit history (1)

People often can't recall details of good things that happen in their lives. Why do they expect people to faithfully recall details of the worst?

[TSExile]

64. Right???

I have since learned that the freeze and fawn response that happened to me was my survival instincts kicking in. One book that tremendously helped me was "We Too" by Mary DeMuth. She is a Christian and the book was mostly written as a call to action for the church. She is a survivor herself and...she gets it.

[ProfessorGAC]

48. Security Footage?

In a dressing room? I think having cameras in a room where customers are getting undressed? A store would put cameras in there?
Also, this happened nearly 30 years ago. Cameras were still expensive, so hardly ubiquitous.
Comparing store monitoring in the mid 90s to today is just silly.

[Jarqui]

49. I've encountered some of that

I reminded them that two juries (each made up of a majority of men) heard the witnesses and saw the evidence from both sides. They heard from witnesses who were told about it by E Jean Carroll right after it happened. They heard from some of the 25 other women who allege Trump sexually assaulted them. They saw the Grab 'em by the Pussy video which is close to what he did except he went further.

The first jury heard E Jean was not certain what he stuck in her vagina. They settled on his fingers as the best case for Trump.

The first jury unanimously concluded E Jean Carroll was digitally raped and defamed by Trump after Trump left the White House. The second jury was focused on whether there was additional defamation while Trump was in the White House and after the first case concluded. The second jury unanimously concluded Jean was defamed more. The presiding judge agreed with both juries. He said:

Judge clarifies: Yes, Trump was found to have raped E. Jean Carroll
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/19/trump-carroll-judge-rape/

In reaction, in part, to folks pretending Trump didn't rape her because of a New York legal technical definition, New York expanded the legal definition of rape like it is in the dictionary to include many forms of nonconsensual sexual contact
https://apnews.com/article/new-york-rape-law-governor-hochul-50e5f9d35b1a7e26881db616a787b45a
(like grabbing by the pussy)
Now, under the current definition of the NY law, Trump raped E Jean Carroll.

And I've added: you do not nail someone with nearly a hundred million in damages for a parking ticket offense. It was the belief of both juries that he did something seriously wrong to her in order for such a high monetary judgement.

If Trump doesn't like it, he can appeal which has has with one so far. The courts will determine if he has a point. He's failed in two appeals already. His lawyer was terrible in not leaving openings for appeal as the trial went along. Her lawyer was excellent. The money damages were established by qualified experts who Trump got to challenge. The punitive damages are well below 5:1, 6:1 and 10:1 ratios. So his chances of being successful on appeal are pretty grim according to many legal experts.

Hope that helps but many will still not accept it

[yardwork]

50. I'm so sorry.

Trump has caused irreparable harm to millions of families. It's heartbreaking.

[GeoWilliam750]

53. Big hugs

And I very much hope that you can get steadily better every day.

[Laffy Kat]

54. That must feel like such a betrayal.

I am so sorry you're having to go through this with your family.

[LiberalFighter]

55. They don't keep security tapes that long.

And the fact she confided with a close friend about the incident a few days later helps her case.

Some/Most women likely don't know how to handle a situation and avoid making it an issue. Because the shame would fall on them and not the rapist.

Your sister unfortunately must not be able to put the pieces together with the Hollywood Access tape, the invasion of rooms filled with underage girls at Miss Universe, or the photos showing him interacting with Epstein on numerous occasions.

[claudette]

58. I saw the friend that

E. Jean called to tell her about it (in an interview with Lawrence O'Donnell) and the friend remembered some details about when because of recalling her own schedule at the time, but not the exact date. That seemed to be enough for the first jury to reach a verdict that Carroll was telling the truth that it HAPPENED - without knowing exactly the day or date from 30 years ago.

[TSExile]

59. It was a year before I told anybody.

He was someone my family knew...though they hadn't spent nearly as much time with or around him as I had. I tried to tell my sister about Saint Donald's shady past, but she says...what about Bill Clinton???

Hey, I don't condone any married men cheating on their wives. But as far as I can tell, his encounters were consensual and with woman who were of age. I am not saying that Bill Clinton is the patron saint of monogamy, but I don't think he ever did anything illegal with a woman.

Barack Obama and Joe Biden, the only other Democratic presidents since, both appear to be model husbands and fathers who treat their wives and daughters - and all the other women who cross their paths with respect and dignity. We all have issues with George W. Bush, but he and Laura by all appearances have a long-term, happy marriage and both of their daughters have turned out well.

Saint Donald is a rapist, serial adulterer and sexual pervert. Has anyone in the White House ever been as horrendous in that category as him? They haven't all been choirboys, but T**** surely must have no competition - at least in the past century or so.

[COL Mustard]

60. I understand why you're a TX Exile

Peace. Families are difficult.

[TSExile]

61. Thanks!!

I actually chose the screen name in honor of my favorite Taylor Swift song, "Exile" (and threw in her initials). But yes, times like these I feel like an exile.

[Wonder Why]

62. Unlike most of the people in this thread, I'm a little more open to

Alternative beliefs. She may honestly believe what she says. I served on many criminal iuries and people disagreed with my beliefs as to guilt or innocence. Unless she believes Trump is right in most of his claims, don't hold it against her for her beliefs or opinions on this matter. She cannot understand what you went through just like someone who has never been in combat can understand the constant fear of killing or being killed.

If she is otherwise a good person, don't lose her for one thing she can't see. Sometimes even when we just can't understand why people believe as they do, we have to remain open or all we do is hurt ourselves.

I wish you the best and make your own decisions. But try to remember what I said. I have many regrets in my old age because nobody gave me that advice. No matter what we think we have gone through, there are others who have been hurt more yet reconciled even with the person who caused our pain and not just the one who didn't support us when we needed it.

[TSExile]

65. Thank you.

Even though my sister and I are complete opposites in looks, personalities and politics, we generally don't fight that much. She is generous, hard-working and a model wife/mother.

T**** has split up enough family relationships...I don't want ours to be another casualty of his. I guess the next time politics comes up, I will flee the room before anyone can say anything!!!