Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Bobstandard

(1,342 posts)
Sat Jan 27, 2024, 09:31 PM Jan 2024

I don't think Trump makes it to the general election

Trump was coming apart before New Hampshire and the E Jean Carol verdict. Witness Trump claiming he beat Obama, that Niki Haley in charge of Capitol security on Jan 6, the list goes on and on. After E Jean Carrol verdict he’s gotten worse. In Nevada today he was constantly confounding listeners with weird statements and nonsensical claims among the same old litany of lies and grievances

I think he’ll get worse fast as the pressure from the campaign and the pending court cases builds. For a long time he’s seemed crazy as a fox. Increasingly he just seems crazy. (Not to mention oranger than ever).

I’m guessing he’ll beat Haley in SC, but not convincingly. That will trigger more bizarre behavior. The only momentum he’s building is toward the looney bin. And people are noticing. The MSM is starting to report on it and when that dam breaks he’s toast.

I’m not suggesting he will quit being a candidate. I’m suggesting that by the end of the primaries he’ll only be viable among the cultists. I think there’s a good chance the party will dump him in a panic. They love power too much to let a by-then obvious incompetent loser be their candidate. I think we’ve got to be ready to beat Haley in the general.

If Trump their candidate he’ll continue to deteriorate. By the general he’ll be so obviously incompetent that the nation will reject him. I hope he makes it that far—because I’d rather face him than Haley—but I don’t think so.

Another crackpot prediction: if he does manage to make it through the primaries, he’ll go radio silent as much as his campaign managers can arrange. He’s clearly his own worst enemy at this point.

171 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I don't think Trump makes it to the general election (Original Post) Bobstandard Jan 2024 OP
I noticed the flesh dropping off him - not to be confused with losing weight thru patricia92243 Jan 2024 #1
How does the flesh fall off? Not sure what you are seeing? chicoescuela Jan 2024 #8
the sores on his hand most likely MistakenLamb Jan 2024 #93
I have 'flesh dropping off' GenThePerservering Jan 2024 #12
Melania put him on a diet..it was reported Demovictory9 Jan 2024 #35
I think a drug like Ozempic or Wegovy is more likely. Sky Jewels Jan 2024 #78
I also don't believe he listens to anyone BlueKota Jan 2024 #127
agree. he isn't going to do anything melonoma tells him, and she doesn't give a shit about him orleans Jan 2024 #148
I had some kfc for the first time in many years spooky3 Jan 2024 #144
I think KFC's biscuits are awful too. GoodRaisin Jan 2024 #159
I've noticed the same. yardwork Jan 2024 #109
Unless he chokes on a cheeseburger (hat tip to Lawrence O'Donnell)... TwilightZone Jan 2024 #2
I see the decline worsening by the week. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #4
I don't have your training or professional background in psych evaluations, Irish peggysue2 Jan 2024 #26
Peggysue you are making astute comments. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #47
"...Puts it on with a trowel" 😂 Quakerfriend Jan 2024 #55
A number of reasons this might be happening: Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #59
TFG may have frontal lobe dementia. LetMyPeopleVote Jan 2024 #75
I agree that the frontal lobe could be involved. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #100
The way he stands is definitely abnormal. ShazzieB Jan 2024 #131
Some are suggesting frontal lobe dementia. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #134
Yes, ive seen that. ShazzieB Jan 2024 #141
He is displaying the cognitive symptoms associated with FLD. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #142
Trump stands like that because he wears lifts. Not because he as dementia. MyNameIsJonas Jan 2024 #156
Hasn't it been reported too BlueKota Jan 2024 #130
Yes we can see he is up most of the night sending hate messages. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #135
The drugs can't help. What a menu! DJ Porkchop Jan 2024 #154
I'm speechless looking at this list. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #161
I think also the greater coarseness viva la Jan 2024 #62
Yes in dementia the filter goes. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #69
Also the lack of hygiene and care for his appearance. viva la Jan 2024 #114
Yes exactly. And the new dark make up is bizarre. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #119
Covering, obfuscating, shaming, avoiding, removing, hiding. n/t DJ Porkchop Jan 2024 #155
Alzheimer and canned beverages. GreenWave Jan 2024 #68
Yes poor diet and past/current drug use is not helping either. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #71
Aspartame too Unwind Your Mind Jan 2024 #99
I more think it doesn't matter to those who want to vote for him. TheKentuckian Jan 2024 #58
Yes it is the greatest voter moral decline in US history. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #63
Who, exactly, is this "GOP Leadership"? Thunderbeast Jan 2024 #163
The signs are recent, but powerful. You heard it here first. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #165
I hope you are right! Thunderbeast Jan 2024 #168
I agree with you. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #171
Hi Irish limbicnuminousity Jan 2024 #65
Yes I have had experience with this kind of situation. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #95
Thank you. limbicnuminousity Jan 2024 #104
We are seeing some narcissistic collapse right now. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #108
Thank you for your insight MustLoveBeagles Jan 2024 #158
Yw. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #162
Even Haley is calling out this decline LetMyPeopleVote Jan 2024 #73
Trump is a narcissist and they become enraged with ego wounds like this. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #96
Of course Nikki is going after his mental decline DENVERPOPS Jan 2024 #106
Your observations are always interesting and informed. yardwork Jan 2024 #110
Thank you! Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #113
That quote at the link is a grab bag of buzz words for the cult of grievance. eppur_se_muova Jan 2024 #5
Agreed. TwilightZone Jan 2024 #9
not an act... agingdem Jan 2024 #45
I bet the stinky Trump meme viva la Jan 2024 #64
Some of what Trump says and does is by design, yes. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #98
That's an interesting aspect of Trump's decline, to me. yardwork Jan 2024 #115
"We know that Putin's aAvisors put together the Make America Great Again campaign script, John Farmer Jan 2024 #121
I might be wrong but I thought that this was proven. yardwork Jan 2024 #128
We can take a look at each statement and make a good guess where it comes from. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #123
Although RobinA Jan 2024 #166
I am beginning to think Trump is going to either totally lose it or end up in jail. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #3
I only hope he makes it just long enough that he is on the ballot. RandomNumbers Jan 2024 #49
It's a gamble but I agree with you. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #57
My dream scenario HariSeldon Jan 2024 #83
Your dream may be closer to reality than you think. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #169
I've Always Thought RobinA Jan 2024 #167
His multiple psychiatric diagnoses are catching up with him. Irish_Dem Jan 2024 #170
I agree... 2naSalit Jan 2024 #6
He won't stop running. Johonny Jan 2024 #7
Agreed Demovictory9 Jan 2024 #36
Fear of prison is a great motivator. C_U_L8R Jan 2024 #10
And bully or harm others nt spooky3 Jan 2024 #145
Ideally, he dies between the last primary and GOP convention to throw that party into complete chaos. Efilroft Sul Jan 2024 #11
I love this scenario! FakeNoose Jan 2024 #60
It would be the best of both worlds calguy Jan 2024 #86
He will die by a million cuts and we are nearing that mark. nt GuppyGal Jan 2024 #13
You have to have a heart for it to fail liberal N proud Jan 2024 #14
He is Anti-Christ Seinan Sensei Jan 2024 #82
And... AllBlue Jan 2024 #15
I think & hope that you are correct. Insane in the membrane, insane his brain! nt TeamProg Jan 2024 #16
Gone insane got no brain edisdead Jan 2024 #42
When RNC members were willing to proclaim him the nominee without finishing the primaries... LiberalFighter Jan 2024 #17
Agree 👍 Tickle Jan 2024 #50
I doubt the MAGA base will vote for Haley. To them she's a loudmouth Asian-American female, who Gaugamela Jan 2024 #18
They won't, they have to have everything their way, GoodRaisin Jan 2024 #160
You may be right... surfered Jan 2024 #19
Haley Mary pass Nasruddin Jan 2024 #25
She avoids taking questions Demovictory9 Jan 2024 #37
She appeals to Republicans who don't like Trump, tanyev Jan 2024 #28
She also appeals to centrists and independents. progressoid Jan 2024 #76
Also I don't know how it is an other areas BlueKota Jan 2024 #136
Thank you for articulating my exact worries. nt Trueblue Texan Jan 2024 #20
They will never dump him jgmiller Jan 2024 #21
this. WarGamer Jan 2024 #23
He's polling +27avg over Haley in SC. WarGamer Jan 2024 #22
He will be the GOP candidate. And he damn well could win. HUAJIAO Jan 2024 #24
Yes exboyfil Jan 2024 #54
Exactly. That's why I was hoping Haley would gain traction. NH Ethylene Jan 2024 #90
I wouldn't assume that nt GenThePerservering Jan 2024 #147
Great post. ificandream Jan 2024 #27
I hope you are right but in 2016 he was doc03 Jan 2024 #29
The manufactured fracture of law at the border PLUS lots of oddly simultaneous industries doing lay offs Attilatheblond Jan 2024 #40
I've heard so many proclamations about the demise of Trump over the last decade and very few have come true. Ace Rothstein Jan 2024 #30
This . obnoxiousdrunk Jan 2024 #33
Post removed Post removed Jan 2024 #38
Spoiler alert: This one won't come to pass either. BannonsLiver Jan 2024 #44
RSO rso Jan 2024 #129
"Cognitive? I have the best cognitive. A Doctor, respected man, said to me, 'Sir . . . tclambert Jan 2024 #31
That Doctor, he's seen so much and he still had a tear in his eye overwhelmed by Trumpian cognitivititieness limbicnuminousity Jan 2024 #32
I want him to last until his name's printed on most of the ballots. - nt CrispyQ Jan 2024 #34
THE GOP has deteriorated just as fast ThoughtCriminal Jan 2024 #39
God willing, we won't have to deal with the fucking orange shitbag at all. I pray that God hits paydirt. SoFlaBro Jan 2024 #41
I too hope that he is too cheap to de-ice Trump Force 1 Submariner Jan 2024 #43
I agree too, duforsure Jan 2024 #46
I hope he lives long enough to alienate more magats Emile Jan 2024 #48
Running is the only way he stays out of prison Patton French Jan 2024 #51
TFG is running to stay out of prison LetMyPeopleVote Jan 2024 #85
Yep NT Patton French Jan 2024 #101
The more senile Trump becomes, the more outrageous he will be, and the more his fanbase will love him. Doodley Jan 2024 #52
Nope, he will not make it. Romney/Haley, and they'll lose. Bigly. marble falls Jan 2024 #53
I said long ago that Romney will be the GQP candidate. efhmc Jan 2024 #116
If I had a dime for every time someone's predicted #Traitor's demise Arazi Jan 2024 #56
OMG all of these predictions concerning the demise of Pisswig and the GOP dweller Jan 2024 #61
Just wait for the convention limbicnuminousity Jan 2024 #67
MAGAts will put him on a warhorse, El Cid style, to ride him into glorious battle... CTyankee Jan 2024 #66
Dump as Charleton Heston... DebbieCDC Jan 2024 #117
They will wheel kacekwl Jan 2024 #70
TFG will take minimum 15% of MAGA cult with him per county, that's a massive loss for GQP to eat but they wont uponit7771 Jan 2024 #72
I often wonder where they will go in 2028 and beyond Polybius Jan 2024 #94
I gave up such pointless optimism, years ago. (nt) Paladin Jan 2024 #74
Without "pointless optimism" I dont think I could get through the day. honest.abe Jan 2024 #92
Meanwhile, the media only reports Biden's "terrible poll numbers" louis-t Jan 2024 #77
Sometimes seeming coincidence happens that turns things around for the good side. PatrickforB Jan 2024 #79
Democrats can use a lot of what Trump has said about Haley against her. n/t brewens Jan 2024 #80
Trump may be thoroughly battered and bruised, and completely deranged by the time of the general election dlk Jan 2024 #81
He will be a stumbling bag of syphilitic dementia with a crushing load of civil penalties and facing massive.... Botany Jan 2024 #84
I think that you are right about Trump coming apart Progressive dog Jan 2024 #87
I have a difficult time with the concept/statement that Slobby is cunning as a fox. If that NoMoreRepugs Jan 2024 #88
I agree that we need to be ready to run against Haley. hay rick Jan 2024 #89
They won't dump him but you are right underpants Jan 2024 #91
Shit happens. Sometimes twice. Vote. twodogsbarking Jan 2024 #97
He better make it. I was counting on it. JohnnyRingo Jan 2024 #102
Yeah. We know Biden can beat TFG, b/c we've seen it happen. RockRaven Jan 2024 #103
But Nikki is a woman. TSExile Jan 2024 #111
I didn't think he would make it 36 months (3 years) without going to jail, but he has . republianmushroom Jan 2024 #105
My ideal solution is Turbineguy Jan 2024 #107
TFG is not well LetMyPeopleVote Jan 2024 #112
He doesn't want to make it to the election. He's afraid of losing again. Hamlette Jan 2024 #118
not only are the crowds dwindling NJCher Jan 2024 #149
Wether he drops out before the convention John Farmer Jan 2024 #120
I Agree CitizenZero Jan 2024 #146
All the court cases on top of running for President is tremendous stress Jarqui Jan 2024 #122
I realize there are a ton of people who have confidence and faith in his strength as a agent of chaos Torchlight Jan 2024 #124
From your mouth to (insert deity name here in possessive form) ears. Tom Yossarian Joad Jan 2024 #125
Are London bookies offering odds on this yet? bucolic_frolic Jan 2024 #126
no bookie anywhere would touch this bet NJCher Jan 2024 #150
Violent outburst or heart attack. SarahD Jan 2024 #132
I've been waiting for this post. DJ Porkchop Jan 2024 #133
Hopefully judgement day will look just like that! Emile Jan 2024 #137
I fell sorry for anyone who doesn't know their limitations. Aussie105 Jan 2024 #138
not to mention NJCher Jan 2024 #152
The party will NOT dump him. They're scared of the Cult followers oldsoftie Jan 2024 #139
Yup. Completely agree. Joinfortmill Jan 2024 #140
Another Reason CitizenZero Jan 2024 #143
It could be worrisome that Trump NOT be the GOP candidate. I think he is the best for the democrats right now. keithbvadu2 Jan 2024 #151
Trump is their only candidate. I don't get where all these MerryBlooms Jan 2024 #153
It was the same in 2016 and 2020. MyNameIsJonas Jan 2024 #157
He won't make it. GhostHunter22 Jan 2024 #164

patricia92243

(12,608 posts)
1. I noticed the flesh dropping off him - not to be confused with losing weight thru
Sat Jan 27, 2024, 09:37 PM
Jan 2024

dieting. I have seen this happen with three members of my family. It meant the body was getting ready to die. The bad news is that it took several months to happen.

When his handlers can plainly see he is getting frail - plus dementia - they will drop him. Haley will be waiting in the wings, if she is smart.

GenThePerservering

(1,955 posts)
12. I have 'flesh dropping off'
Sat Jan 27, 2024, 10:52 PM
Jan 2024

because I lost some weight cutting a few things out.

It's a long road for that turd because the RNC won't hand him the presumptive nomination, and he'll keep slipping, but he's not going anywhere.

Sky Jewels

(7,245 posts)
78. I think a drug like Ozempic or Wegovy is more likely.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:23 PM
Jan 2024

He doesn't have the self control to cut back on hamberders and KFC without some assist from pharmaceuticals, IMO.

BlueKota

(1,935 posts)
127. I also don't believe he listens to anyone
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 05:42 PM
Jan 2024

else's advice but his own. I highly doubt he cares what Melania or anyone else wants him to do. At best it's a cover story to disguise deeper health issues to the press.

orleans

(34,143 posts)
148. agree. he isn't going to do anything melonoma tells him, and she doesn't give a shit about him
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 10:16 PM
Jan 2024

to tell him anything other than to get the fuck away from her.

yardwork

(61,882 posts)
109. I've noticed the same.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 03:12 PM
Jan 2024

Trump is losing muscle mass, leaving behind skinny arms and legs, with a big belly. I'm not a health care professional but this can't be a good sign.

TwilightZone

(25,560 posts)
2. Unless he chokes on a cheeseburger (hat tip to Lawrence O'Donnell)...
Sat Jan 27, 2024, 09:41 PM
Jan 2024

he's almost certainly going to be the nominee.

As for his behavior, it's really not as different as many insist or wish to believe. He's been a blithering dope ever since he announced in 2015, and places like Slate* have been documenting his word salad ever since.

Is he getting worse? Yeah, maybe, but none of this is really new, and I don't really see the precipitous decline others see. It's just the latest iteration.

The GOP also passed rules in recent years - ironically, to protect Trump - that make it nearly impossible to dump him at the convention. They're more than likely stuck with him.

*https://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2015/07/31/donald_trump_this_run_on_sentence_from_a_speech_in_sun_city_south_carolina.html

Irish_Dem

(48,928 posts)
4. I see the decline worsening by the week.
Sat Jan 27, 2024, 09:49 PM
Jan 2024

In terms of his cognitive and emotional decline.

Increased incoherence, anger, irrationality, almost delusional thought content,
and very inappropriate public behavior. Even his appearance has worsened, wearing
dark heavy pancake make-up. He looks and acts more and more bizarre which is a reflection of his
mind set.

Yes he is a career criminal, always a ruthless narcissist.
But the cognitive and emotional decline is apparent.

(I have extensive training and experience doing psych evaluations.)

peggysue2

(10,909 posts)
26. I don't have your training or professional background in psych evaluations, Irish
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:19 AM
Jan 2024

But I do have first hand experience with family members and dementia, specifically Alzheimer's. This looks and sounds very familiar--the body language, the language skill and thought processing loss, the off-the-chart outbursts, even the threats and uptick in violent rhetoric.

The inappropriate behavior has been there from the start but to my eyes, the man has become much worse, far more incoherent and in a constant state of rage and paranoia. Stress will definitely increase these visible emotional and cognitive symptoms.

Physically, too. He looks like hell and the heavy makeup can't hide that sickly, hollowed-out look.

So, I agree. I think the man is in serious decline.

The campaign may try to pump him up with meds and do everything they can to hide or pretend he's A-okay. But Alzheimer's, something his own father suffered and died from, will out-race and overtake him.

This is one thing Trump cannot lie or con his way through.

Alzheimer's simply doesn't care.

Irish_Dem

(48,928 posts)
47. Peggysue you are making astute comments.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 07:41 AM
Jan 2024

I agree with what you have said.

Often in a cognitive decline we see people go to their worst personality traits.
Trump is a career criminal and ruthless sociopath. So those traits are on full display.

We see how Trump is much worse than in the past. Everything is ramped up.

Trump is reverting to more childlike behavior. Yes the temper tantrums, outbursts, rage, paranoia.
Talking about all the crimes and illegal activities he will commit on day one in the WH.

His childlike behavior was readily apparent in his recent courtroom appearance for example.
This actually cost him a great deal of money, it did not help him with the jury.
I think even six months ago he may have been able to hold his tongue a bit more.
But today he cannot. He is not able to regulate his behavior even to prevent the loss of a great deal of money.

Yes he is obviously trying to hide something about his appearance with the heavy dark make-up.
I agree, he must be looking quite pale and sick without it. He looks in the mirror and hates what he sees.
He has always been so vain. So he gets even darker make up than usual and puts in on with a trowel.

I also agree he is being medicated, this is what is causing the slurred speech and some of the
cognitive and verbal slippage.

Have you been reading about all the drug usage in the WH when Trump was there?
The WH pharmacy handed out huge amounts of heavy duty drugs. Morphine, fentanyl, ketamine, ambien.
If Trump was/is doing these kind of drugs this will also exacerbate all the cognitive and emotional symptoms
we are seeing. (Also as a side note these particular drugs can also be used as date rape drugs but that is another topic.)

I think there are a combination of factors at play here.
-Running for president is extremely stressful even for a healthy person.
-Facing so many trials for serious crimes and resulting in severe consequences is stressful.
-Even one trial is stressful, but Trump is facing many of them.
-Trump is thin skinned with a huge ego, and opponents have been hitting him emotionally.
-He also has a history of drug abuse, adderrall and cocaine.
-Terrible diet and little exercise.
-All of this on top of a man with significant cognitive, emotional impairment and long time mental illness.

Trump has been backed into a corner legally and financially, his only hope is getting back into the WH to prevent possible jail and financial ruin. And he is not up to the campaign. He is in serious decline. So he is under a great deal of stress and it shows.

Quakerfriend

(5,463 posts)
55. "...Puts it on with a trowel" 😂
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 10:47 AM
Jan 2024

I’ve been noticing too that his arms hang loosely by his side but almost in front of his body- looks so strange & not at all normal!

Irish_Dem

(48,928 posts)
59. A number of reasons this might be happening:
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 11:18 AM
Jan 2024

I think he is wearing heels, lifts or the front of his feet are standing on a small platform.
So this is throwing off his balance when he is standing. He is tilting slightly forward. So arms
are almost in front of him.

I think they are trying to make him look taller or to stop swaying back and forth when he talks.
The swaying could be dementia or the drugs he is obviously taking.

Or it could all be connected to dementia posture, hunching over and shuffling the feet.

ETA I think his minders are in a bind. He obviously is very agitated, angry and acting out.
So they are sedating him it looks like. That is why his words are slurred.
Probably with benzodiazepines (tranquilizers) which causes other symptoms, so maybe they add more drugs.

In the military they have what they call "go" and "no go" drugs to help in combat.
Uppers and downers. It looks like Trump may be on this kind of cocktail.
Which you cannot do for any length of time or you have a lot of problems.

Irish_Dem

(48,928 posts)
100. I agree that the frontal lobe could be involved.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 01:39 PM
Jan 2024

The frontal lobe controls higher cognitive functioning: memory, emotions, impulse control, problem solving, social interaction, and motor function.

Damage to the frontal lobe can lead to personality changes, difficulty concentrating or planning, and impulsivity.

Let's just say that you don't want a man with frontal lobe damage to have his finger on a large nuclear arsenal.

ShazzieB

(16,765 posts)
131. The way he stands is definitely abnormal.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 05:57 PM
Jan 2024

I didn't notice it myself until people started pointing it out, but now I can't unsee it.

Wearing lifts, etc., is NOT enough to explain this oddity.

Irish_Dem

(48,928 posts)
134. Some are suggesting frontal lobe dementia.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 06:07 PM
Jan 2024

Which can cause this kind of posture as well as the other dementia symptoms.

ShazzieB

(16,765 posts)
141. Yes, ive seen that.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 07:28 PM
Jan 2024

I don't know enough about FTD to have an informed opinion on that, but it sounds likely enough based on what I've read.

Irish_Dem

(48,928 posts)
142. He is displaying the cognitive symptoms associated with FLD.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 07:31 PM
Jan 2024

Time will tell, this gets worse, not better.

 

MyNameIsJonas

(744 posts)
156. Trump stands like that because he wears lifts. Not because he as dementia.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 11:41 PM
Jan 2024

Plus, the photo from the campaign rally is eight years old. I promise you that if Trump had frontal lobe dementia.in 2016, he'd be dead or completely incapacitated. The average lifespan with someone who starts showing signs of frontal lobe dementia is six-to-eight years.

BlueKota

(1,935 posts)
130. Hasn't it been reported too
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 05:51 PM
Jan 2024

that he hardly sleeps, and instead stays up all night ranting about his "enemies," on his social media site? That can't be helping either.

Irish_Dem

(48,928 posts)
135. Yes we can see he is up most of the night sending hate messages.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 06:09 PM
Jan 2024

I don't know if he sleeps much at all.

But yes, lack of deep sleep can contribute to dementia issues.

viva la

(3,403 posts)
62. I think also the greater coarseness
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 11:27 AM
Jan 2024

Of his language, the frequent cussing, the rawness, his inability to say anything that isn't ugly and damaging... whatever inhibitions he ever had are gone.

Irish_Dem

(48,928 posts)
69. Yes in dementia the filter goes.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:06 PM
Jan 2024

Impaired social judgement, less inhibited, not following social norms.

Trump always broke the rules, but he is worse than usual now.

I also suspect he is on benzodiazepines (tranquilizers), we can see the slurred speech.
This is also adding to his impaired social filter.

viva la

(3,403 posts)
114. Also the lack of hygiene and care for his appearance.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 03:26 PM
Jan 2024

And of course no one in his group is brave enough even to say, "Sir, you have spinach in your teeth."

Irish_Dem

(48,928 posts)
119. Yes exactly. And the new dark make up is bizarre.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 04:09 PM
Jan 2024

He was always so vain and now he looks disheveled and unkempt.

And why has he switched to the very unattractive and odd looking make up.

GreenWave

(6,929 posts)
68. Alzheimer and canned beverages.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 11:57 AM
Jan 2024

When I worked in a glass factory when glass was trying to convince beverage makers to use glass we often said we will keep your clients alive longer...

Irish_Dem

(48,928 posts)
71. Yes poor diet and past/current drug use is not helping either.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:08 PM
Jan 2024

He is said to be a long time adderall addict and used cocaine.

TheKentuckian

(25,036 posts)
58. I more think it doesn't matter to those who want to vote for him.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 11:14 AM
Jan 2024

He has always been unfit and unworthy of office but consistently the more throughly he demonstrates both the tighter they cling to him.

They even had foresight to inoculate themselves from having to think about it no matter how much he screams at his mother for doing unseemly things with Obama on stage or whatever by projecting every bit of it on Biden already so essentially no matter how off the rails Agolf goes he can remain the preferred option.

The real patient in need of analysis and treatment is his constituency.

Irish_Dem

(48,928 posts)
63. Yes it is the greatest voter moral decline in US history.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 11:30 AM
Jan 2024

To adore a man who is a known criminal. A rapist who committed treason, damaged our democracy
and staged the overthrow of an election. Stole classified documents, damaging national security.

Cult research shows that with each truth bomb, some cult members peel off, others double and triple down.
I suspect that with the recent trial and some of the obvious cognitive slippage and very bad public behavior,
some of the cult is peeling off. They do so quietly, but the remaining cult members make a lot of noise in
favor of the cult leader.

Also we have US senators speaking out this week against Trump, so they know he is a huge liability for them.

I am quite cynical about justice being served for Trump, but I cannot deny what is happening.
This man is falling apart, the GOP leadership has had it with him.
And Trump has a presidential campaign and many court cases in front of him.
He is going to get much worse in the next year.

Thunderbeast

(3,437 posts)
163. Who, exactly, is this "GOP Leadership"?
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 12:27 PM
Jan 2024

If they have "had it" with him, why has this not resulted in tangible opposition?

If they are truly the party leadership, they would have to show results at all levels of elective office.

The cult is in the lead! They have a firm grip on the house, Supreme Court, and at least 15 of the state's legislatures and governors.

Irish_Dem

(48,928 posts)
165. The signs are recent, but powerful. You heard it here first.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 01:48 PM
Jan 2024

-US GOP senators speaking out recently against Trump's interference in their immigration bill.
-The EJC trial was very damaging to Trump.
-Trump is looking more deranged and sick by the day.
-Nikki Haley is openly mocking and humiliating Trump and being cheered on by her fans.

This is the crack in the damn. They are finally making noises against Trump.

Yes of course, the Putin GOP cult has infiltrated our government.
But we are beginning to see some cracks appearing.

You heard it here first. I don't make comments like this lightly.
I was saying what you were saying quite recently.

But things changed in the last week.

Thunderbeast

(3,437 posts)
168. I hope you are right!
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 02:37 PM
Jan 2024

I have confidence that Biden and Dems will win big in November. It will take a total bloodbath for the GOP to walk away from MAGA and find a new formula to be competitive.

The sad part is that the US Constitution is anti-democratic with small, rural states having disproportionate power.

Irish_Dem

(48,928 posts)
171. I agree with you.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 03:27 PM
Jan 2024

I am seeing a Biden win, and Trump circling the drain.

Trump is mentally and physically very unwell.
And support for him is peeling off.

limbicnuminousity

(1,407 posts)
65. Hi Irish
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 11:42 AM
Jan 2024

I'm curious to hear any insights you may offer. My impression is that under normal circumstances a family member of social worker would intervene if someone displayed such erratic behavior and difficulty communicating.

Do you have any experience with people going through cognitive and emotional decline AND remain untreated? I'm half-expecting him to get lost in the bathroom or maybe to start randomly barking at a rally. Or does he self-destruct? Or something else?

You can't predict the future obviously, but do you have experience dealing with something akin to an untreated Alzheimer's patient with an Adderal/Provigil addiction?

Irish_Dem

(48,928 posts)
95. Yes I have had experience with this kind of situation.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 01:27 PM
Jan 2024

Hi Limbic. I like your username!

This is a complex clinical presentation. I can give you some ideas on how this situation could unfold.

Given Trump's dementia, drug addiction, and mental illnesses, this kind of case can deteriorate badly.
Keep in mind we are also looking at a narcissist and sociopath (narcissistic and antisocial personality disorders.)
So he is mentally ill on top of the dementia and drug addiction.

(I have also suspected perhaps an untreated Bipolar Disorder, but given his long time stimulant abuse
it is hard to tell because stimulant use can mimic bipolar. Often times with someone who is a drug abuser,
it is hard to get an idea of what you're looking at with a patient until they're detoxed. Then the
more accurate clinical picture comes into focus.)

All of this gets worse with increasing levels of stress.
Trump is going to be facing a great deal more stress in the next year.
A presidential run, being on the road most of the time, poor sleep and eating habits.
Also facing numerous court and legal actions. Facing possible loss of his wealth and even jail time.
Additionally his opponents are getting under his skin.
Ego wounds are very difficult for narcissist. And can result in much rage and acting out.
Narcissists love to get revenge.

Sociopaths hate being backed into a corner and can lash out in dangerous ways.
Then we can see the cognitive decline which results in fewer social filters and less inhibition.
So I would predict that his anger, hate, threats, revenge tactics will get worse. And we can see this even spills over
into how he treats people who are his allies. So he will alienate even those who align with him.

Typically narcissists are not suicidal, they are too self focused, and feel way too special to hurt themselves.
Though a problem with rich people is that they can get as many drugs as they want, and in huge quantities,
so they can accidentally overdose. Especially with a dementia patient who may not remember what he took and when.
Or someone with long term drug use who needs more and more drugs to get high and ends up in a bad place.

Trump's history is to take out all of his bad feelings on other people. So he is more apt to get other people hurt
than hurt himself. So his danger to others is more likely to increase, not self harm.

Yes I think he will be getting physically lost, confused and disoriented, since he is traveling so much and
so stressed out. I assume Trump has minders keeping a close eye on him.

I think his minders have been giving him benzodiazepines to curb his angry acting out, but now we
see the lowered inhibition and slurring of words, so they may cut back on the meds. But then we will
see increased acting out. There are other medications that would work out better for Trump.

I don't see him necessarily actually being psychotic, but this is a possibility I admit if his
drug use increases and he is sufficiently stressed out. Keep in mind that with narcissists they are
so grandiose and have so many fantasies about how brilliant, talented and special they are it can
look delusional and psychotic like. But doesn't met the criteria of actual psychosis. We have to
evaluate each behavior to see if he is actually exhibiting psychotic behavior.

Also we have a situation where the family may not intervene in any meaningful way.
Fearing that it will damage the presidential run or may result in alienating their father who
holds the purse strings. But I think the kids managed to get their father to transfer some assets.
I think Trump handed over MAL to junior recently? Either to protect it from lawsuits or because of the
decline. I think the kids have to be nervous about their inheritance. Trump's ridiculous temper tantrums
in the recent Carroll trial cost Trump a great deal of money.

I don't know how helpful it would be to take him to see his physician who may be the one prescribing
the medications I think he is on that are not helping matters. And will do whatever Trump wants him to do.

So we are looking at a man with serious personality disorders, drug addiction, and signs of dementia.
Whose stress level is going to be very high for a sustained period of time. And a family who is probably
reluctant to take any action. So this situation could deteriorate significantly.

limbicnuminousity

(1,407 posts)
104. Thank you.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 02:04 PM
Jan 2024

It's alarming that so many disingenuous actors choose to ignore what's happening with Trump. It's even more alarming, to me at least, that the RNC was ready to declare Trump the "winner" after New Hampshire.

I appreciate how thoroughly you've been considering the topic. You explain what you're seeing and how you interpret it in a way that is more informative than random articles asserting "psychologists question Trump's mental stability." Wish I could double-rec. Trump has always seemed unhinged, but the apparent dementia seems like a more recent development.

Tangential note: You mentioned that narcissists are typically too self-involved to self-destruct. I asked about that possibility based on an assumption of an impending narcissistic collapse. He's claimed to be a billionaire. I could see the court cases and tax fraud bankrupting him. Once the money is gone, his influence will circle the drain and without large groups of people reinforcing his narcissism...whatever happens I don't imagine it will be pretty.

Irish_Dem

(48,928 posts)
108. We are seeing some narcissistic collapse right now.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 02:59 PM
Jan 2024

Trump is being humiliated in public, it is harder for him to maintain his grandiose persona.
It is a narcissistic wounding.

This is why he is raging, lashing out, lowered impulsivity, threatening others.
The dementia is also causing some of this to happen. And the drugs don't help either.

Yes he has always been seriously mentally ill and drug abusing, but now we are seeing an
added layer, the dementia.

He is also afraid of jail and bankruptcy. His actual lack of wealth may be exposed.
Yes it is hard to predict exactly what he will do, but we do have to consider self-harm
as a possibility.

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. We have no evidence of self harm or
even threats of it. Of course if those have been present and kept secret, then future self harm risk
goes up quite a bit, way up. The presence of a dementia raises the risk as well, so do the drugs.

But we see instead that Trump threatens others, harms them, not himself. So that is the higher probability.

That said, if Trump is looking at prison time and bankruptcy, the loss of what is important to him.
His freedom and money, then yes he might consider self harm as an option. So the self harm risk goes up.
And the drugs and dementia certainly raise the risk.

I think most mental health professionals would put Trump on suicide watch if he goes to prison.
That is going to be a big collapse. Unless he is able to turn it into his victim scam and raise money.
And rally his base. That will make him feel better, narcissists love to play the victim card.

Sometimes narcissists, who are cowards at heart, can get meek and compliant when seriously frightened.
We see that Trump was meek and compliant with Putin who must have really scared him.
So perhaps that would happen if Trump is frightened enough with prison. But his cognitive decline
may prevent him from that more rational reaction.

But first we are going to see him desperately try to maintain his control over his own grandiosity
and over others. More anger, rage, trying to get back control. More threats and gaslighting.

Well yes of course. This could end very badly in a number of ways.

As I said we are looking at someone with two serious personality disorders, which mean
entitlement, arrogance in a person who is very willing to break social norms, rules and the law.
Then we have the drug addiction and cognitive decline.

So yes when you are in clinical practice and you see someone this impaired, with so many diagnoses
and very problematic behavior, facing severe consequences, you are not thrilled with how this could
play out. If this was a patient in your practice, you would call next of kin, the family and have a family session
outlining your concern and recommending protective action. If this is a person you are evaluating for the court,
or for the client's attorneys, you would recommend protective action in terms of risk to self and others.

Irish_Dem

(48,928 posts)
96. Trump is a narcissist and they become enraged with ego wounds like this.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 01:29 PM
Jan 2024

They just cannot tolerate being embarrassed, humiliated, or being called out on their bad behavior.

DENVERPOPS

(9,014 posts)
106. Of course Nikki is going after his mental decline
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 02:19 PM
Jan 2024

It is also a perfect stepping stone for her to again use against Biden.........sort of the two birds with one stone......

On a side note: The congressional elections for House and Senate are every bit as important as the Presidential election.
We have witnessed just how much damage the Republicans in the House and senate have been able to rain down on our democracy these past years..............

eppur_se_muova

(36,327 posts)
5. That quote at the link is a grab bag of buzz words for the cult of grievance.
Sat Jan 27, 2024, 10:06 PM
Jan 2024

In other words, it's exactly what they want, and it's what works. Organization/structure (or lack thereof) is not needed or even useful to them.

TwilightZone

(25,560 posts)
9. Agreed.
Sat Jan 27, 2024, 10:16 PM
Jan 2024

It may seem like complete nonsense to many, but it has a very specific purpose -- it hits all the talking points.

I've been arguing since 2015 that Trump's seeming incoherence is an act and almost certainly by design. That's why I take the opinions of self-proclaimed experts that he's experiencing a drastic mental decline with a grain of salt. That could certainly be happening, but I think it's much harder to separate the intentional from the unintentional than many assume.

agingdem

(7,895 posts)
45. not an act...
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 03:09 AM
Jan 2024

his nonsensical verbal garbage is finally getting the MSM attention it deserves...he's no longer the larger-than-life billionaire real estate magnate/television personality...he's a "known" and his decades of deceit, cruelty, revenge, overt racism, sexual perversion, and greed is now on full display...he's a rapist/tax fraud/conman/criminal/traitor and he can no longer count on the supplicant press to buy his bull-boy insults and blathering bullshit...he can't control his image and I think we are watching a train wreck in real time: a stinky 77 year old delusional man/child descent into madness...(and he's taking his congressional MAGA imbeciles with him!)...good!

viva la

(3,403 posts)
64. I bet the stinky Trump meme
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 11:32 AM
Jan 2024

Is actually getting to him. He's allegedly had that problem for a long time, but no one was allowed to talk about it. (Noel Casler did talk, of course!)

Now everyone is talking about it.

Irish_Dem

(48,928 posts)
98. Some of what Trump says and does is by design, yes.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 01:35 PM
Jan 2024

This is a ruthless sociopath who will use every trick in the book to get what he wants.

But some of his recent behavior is most likely not intentional because he is humiliating himself
and narcissists would not do that.

There are experienced professionals with training who spend decades sorting out
lies, manufactured behavior from real behavior. Law enforcement does it all the time
with criminals, mental health professionals do it all the time when evaluating patients.

yardwork

(61,882 posts)
115. That's an interesting aspect of Trump's decline, to me.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 03:35 PM
Jan 2024

For years, people have said "he's nuts" in response to his bizarre statements. I think a lot of those supposedly "nuts" statements were carefully crafted dog whistles and red meat for his base. (He wasn't always the one doing the crafting. We know that Putin's advisors put together the Make America Great Again campaign script, even before Trump emerged as the 2016 nominee. But Trump himself had a sort of genius as a huckster. He knew what to say to people. He knew his audience.)

But now, I agree with you, Trump is doing and saying things that genuinely don't make sense and actually hurt him and his image. Teasing out the difference is interesting. We're seeing a real cognitive and physical decline.

For instance, it's pointless and counter productive for Trump to keep bringing up his cognitive tests. There's no strategic advantage to reminding his voters - many of whom are over 65 and have had these screening tests themselves - that he's had cognitive screening tests. The fact that he keeps bringing this up means his narcissism and anxiety are no longer controlled by reasoning.

John Farmer

(94 posts)
121. "We know that Putin's aAvisors put together the Make America Great Again campaign script,
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 04:52 PM
Jan 2024

even before Trump emerged as the candidate."

I was never sure of that but....

I actually have a MAGA hat that I wore to the Women's March but mine says Make America Great in the original Russian!

Irish_Dem

(48,928 posts)
123. We can take a look at each statement and make a good guess where it comes from.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 05:02 PM
Jan 2024

This is a complex case, but this is the kind of thing mental health professionals do for a living.
They are trying to make a diagnosis, make recommendations, develop a treatment plan,
so have to understand what is causing behavior, thoughts, feelings, statements, etc.
Is someone lying, doing drugs, psychotic, personality disorder, mood disorder, etc.

Trump has a lot going on in terms of pathology and motives. Just some quick thoughts:

1. Delivering services for those who pay and back him.
We know Trump owes the people who installed him into the WH, and who support him now.
The autocratic block. Primarily Putin, probably China as well. And then when in office we know he received money from
international and domestic sources. So he has talking points to deliver. We know other GOP leaders
have some of the same talking points. These are US chaos agents funded by geopolitical enemies.

These statements will be along the lines of creating chaos, division, hatred and anger among Americans.
Also a deep distrust of the US, the US government, and selected "others."
The autocratic bloc wishes to weaken the US, ruin its reputation, and damage democracy.
The crazier sounding the statements, the better, making US leaders look like ignorant buffoons.

2. Narcissism. The grandiose, entitled, arrogant statements. Self-aggrandizing, vain, making himself look good
at the expensive of others. Putting others down, diminishing others, making fun of them.
The narcissist truly believes they are superior to others. They are the star in life, everyone else is
just a prop. When thwarted, they can lash out viciously. Everything feels personal to them.

3. Sociopathy. This is someone who is lying, cheating, stealing for personal gain. He will grift and con others
with impunity. So he is throwing red meat to the cult for money and votes. He has learned that by appealing to the dark underbelly of human nature, he can raise money and get votes. Also is the message Putin wants delivered, so a double win.

Break the law, rules, norms, etc. He will always accuse others of the crimes he is committing.
Clever, rich sociopaths find a way to wiggle out of trouble. Trump is certainly no intellectual, but he
has a cunning, animal street sense. And can deliver a con easily.

4. Sadism. Trump is ruthless, and does not care who he gets killed or hurt in his quest for money or power.
And I believe he is a sadistic sociopath as well. He enjoys and gets off on his cruelty, his ability to trick
and hurt people. He enjoys tormenting others and causing pain. He greatly enjoyed watching J6,
people getting killed and injured. Almost getting his own VP killed.

5. Drugs. Long time Adderall user by many reports, this is a stimulant. This is no doubt causing the all night
text and social media communications. The endless poorly written messages.
This also looks like a manic phase of Bipolar. Which I have not ruled out for Trump.

I also believe he is now on sedating medication and that could be causing the slurred speech.

6. Dementia. This is obvious now to most people. Decline in his thought process and expressive language, word salad.
Incoherent at times. Thought content is bizarre. Temper tantrums, angry acting out in court, which cost him $millions
in that the jury was not impressed.

Decline in appearance, looks unkept, his make up appearing more odd.

These are just some of the examples. But you get the drift.



RobinA

(9,940 posts)
166. Although
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 02:01 PM
Jan 2024

I've never thought his incoherence is totally an act, I do agree that whether or not what we're seeing is an actual decline is questionable. To me it's a logical extension of his usual behavior given that his fortunes at this point look somewhat less than rosy. Suddenly he's losing more often than winning, and it's starting to pile up. I predicted a psychotic break his first year in office, but he proved more resilient, kinda like a cockroach, than I expected. He's gotta be far more stressed now than we've ever seen him, and he isn't wearing it well. His narcissistic supply has got to be a fraction of what it once was and he's thrashing around trying to get it back.

Irish_Dem

(48,928 posts)
3. I am beginning to think Trump is going to either totally lose it or end up in jail.
Sat Jan 27, 2024, 09:42 PM
Jan 2024

I had been thinking that he is invincible because everyone is afraid of him.
But the tide is turning, we are seeing it every day now.

RandomNumbers

(17,686 posts)
49. I only hope he makes it just long enough that he is on the ballot.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 09:43 AM
Jan 2024

I agree with the OP that we need to be prepared for a much more sane-appearing candidate in his place.

But even if Trump is on the ballot with this clear downward spiral in his functioning - still don't take the election for granted - the cultists WILL show up, and there are a scary number of them.

Irish_Dem

(48,928 posts)
57. It's a gamble but I agree with you.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 11:04 AM
Jan 2024

Trump is acting so badly and obviously greatly impaired, it is unlikely he can handle a presidential campaign. And the cult members are beginning to peel off in greater numbers. It is hard to envision him winning the election.

He is rapidly declining right in front of our eyes, the other trials are still in front of him and he
has to face a presidential run.

But he, Putin and China are desperate now, so cheating is on the table for them for sure.
However the worse Trump performs, the harder it is to cheat in a realistic way.

And if a saner sounding GOP candidate runs against Biden that is risky too.

I am feeling Trump is going to get the nomination. He may even cut a deal with Nikki H that she
can be his VP if she will shut up.

And I am seeing a Biden win.

HariSeldon

(463 posts)
83. My dream scenario
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:26 PM
Jan 2024

Trump declines just to the point where the traditional Republicans drop him from the ticket, but not so far that the cult true-believers will vote for anyone else. The cultists write Trump in on their ballots and refuse to vote for any Republicans because of the party's "betrayal" of running another candidate.

Sadly, it's only a dream.

RobinA

(9,940 posts)
167. I've Always Thought
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 02:11 PM
Jan 2024

that only his own pathology will take him down. With maybe a little help. I mean, that huge ass jury award has got to be in large part because of his horrible antics in court. If they just wanted him to have to pay I would think they wouldn't have hit it out of the ballpark like that.

Irish_Dem

(48,928 posts)
170. His multiple psychiatric diagnoses are catching up with him.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 03:25 PM
Jan 2024

And his physical health is nothing to brag about either.

2naSalit

(87,209 posts)
6. I agree...
Sat Jan 27, 2024, 10:08 PM
Jan 2024

Though I think he won't be ab;e to handle the pressure whether he's nominated or not.

If he was an unraveling sweater, he'd be up past the armpits at this point.

He looks like he spends his nights raging. Won't take long now.

Johonny

(21,047 posts)
7. He won't stop running.
Sat Jan 27, 2024, 10:11 PM
Jan 2024

Unless he's dead. His ego won't allow him to drop out and his bank account needs the go fund me fools. He will run and run and run.

C_U_L8R

(45,057 posts)
10. Fear of prison is a great motivator.
Sat Jan 27, 2024, 10:27 PM
Jan 2024

He'll keep running so he can pardon himself. Desperate. He has no other option.

Efilroft Sul

(3,597 posts)
11. Ideally, he dies between the last primary and GOP convention to throw that party into complete chaos.
Sat Jan 27, 2024, 10:35 PM
Jan 2024

May the Republican Party forever fracture and never darken democracy's door again.

calguy

(5,365 posts)
86. It would be the best of both worlds
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:27 PM
Jan 2024

if the MAGAts drafted Gym Jordan at the convention to be their candidate.

Seinan Sensei

(386 posts)
82. He is Anti-Christ
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:25 PM
Jan 2024

Not THE ANTICHRIST of Fundamentalist end-time theology.
But Anti-Christ (i.e. against the teachings of New Testament Jesus) nonetheless.

LiberalFighter

(51,677 posts)
17. When RNC members were willing to proclaim him the nominee without finishing the primaries...
Sat Jan 27, 2024, 11:21 PM
Jan 2024

I don't see Trump being out. He will be the nominee at the convention. Maybe by then more court cases will be ruled against him and he goes bonkers. Forcing the RNC in disarray. I expect the RNC will be suffering financial problems like several state parties. It would be a great outcome. Making it difficult for down the ballot Republicans winning.

If the RNC is forced to choose another candidate after the convention it will loose any momentum.

Gaugamela

(2,503 posts)
18. I doubt the MAGA base will vote for Haley. To them she's a loudmouth Asian-American female, who
Sat Jan 27, 2024, 11:27 PM
Jan 2024

has badmouthed the dear leader. They’ll stay home. Trump has already split the party. One faction will never vote for Trump, and the other will only vote for him.

GoodRaisin

(8,945 posts)
160. They won't, they have to have everything their way,
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 06:33 AM
Jan 2024

like he does. They’ll stay home if they don’t get their way.

surfered

(677 posts)
19. You may be right...
Sat Jan 27, 2024, 11:31 PM
Jan 2024

… at a rally tonight, he said some whacky stuff and the audience laughed at him not with him. His supporters have stuck with him longer than I imagined. But if he craters mentally, the GOP will nominate Haley and our odds of victory go down.

Nasruddin

(758 posts)
25. Haley Mary pass
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:17 AM
Jan 2024

The scales have fallen from my eyes looking at Haley. The gaffe fest of the past few weeks convinced me she's stupid. That doesn't mean she can't win (consider George Bush). She had better not win simply because of that, but I also think she doesn't have whatever it is that it takes to make it. She will say many more stupid, alienating things, and that will finish it.

In the very unlikely event that Trump collapses before election, show's over.

tanyev

(42,772 posts)
28. She appeals to Republicans who don't like Trump,
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:22 AM
Jan 2024

but the MAGA cult doesn’t like her. If they feel Trump’s been betrayed by the GOP, they won’t show up to vote for her.

BlueKota

(1,935 posts)
136. Also I don't know how it is an other areas
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 06:11 PM
Jan 2024

but based on the behavior and statements of white Republican males where I live in New York State, I doubt they'd ever vote for a woman for President. I do realize, however, that it isn't guaranteed they won't.

jgmiller

(399 posts)
21. They will never dump him
Sat Jan 27, 2024, 11:47 PM
Jan 2024

Even if they think they are going down in flames on the presidential they won't dump him because his cult will just vote for him as an independant or not vote at all. If they don't vote at all that means the GOP will get crushed in all of the down ballot races. They have no choice but to continue with him.

NH Ethylene

(30,832 posts)
90. Exactly. That's why I was hoping Haley would gain traction.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:37 PM
Jan 2024

She would be a much stronger candidate against Biden, but the consequences of a GOP win would be less catastrophic for our democracy.

doc03

(35,517 posts)
29. I hope you are right but in 2016 he was
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:23 AM
Jan 2024

a joke and ended up president. My biggest worry is what is going on at the border. We have states openly defying the Federal government.

Attilatheblond

(2,336 posts)
40. The manufactured fracture of law at the border PLUS lots of oddly simultaneous industries doing lay offs
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 01:04 AM
Jan 2024

The latter is corporations doing campaign 'donations' to GOP by trying to undermine Biden's great strides in turning the Trump-ruined economy around. The rich and corporate will do any amount of damage to us all to help keep GOP in power in at least one legislative chamber because they do not want to give back the tax cuts that made the deficit soar under Trump/McConnell.

Toss in this whole 'the South will rise again' challenge to federal powers to enforce law at the federal borders, and the seeds of political chaos are sprouting. The GOP has NO policies to solve actual problems. Trump has told them NOT to implement any 'border solutions' so he can use that as a club to beat on Biden.

All that is going on now makes Nixon's dirty tricks CREEP cadre look like a cub scout outing.

Ace Rothstein

(3,206 posts)
30. I've heard so many proclamations about the demise of Trump over the last decade and very few have come true.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:26 AM
Jan 2024

Response to Ace Rothstein (Reply #30)

tclambert

(11,089 posts)
31. "Cognitive? I have the best cognitive. A Doctor, respected man, said to me, 'Sir . . .
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:31 AM
Jan 2024

You have the most cognitive, the biggest, strongest cognitive of, probably any president ever. And I took a test, you all remember that test. Person, man, . . . something, . . . well, you know the rest. You know the rest!"

limbicnuminousity

(1,407 posts)
32. That Doctor, he's seen so much and he still had a tear in his eye overwhelmed by Trumpian cognitivititieness
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:35 AM
Jan 2024

SoFlaBro

(2,124 posts)
41. God willing, we won't have to deal with the fucking orange shitbag at all. I pray that God hits paydirt.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 01:09 AM
Jan 2024

Submariner

(12,526 posts)
43. I too hope that he is too cheap to de-ice Trump Force 1
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 02:39 AM
Jan 2024

and cartwheels off the end of a runway in a fireball. It would be a trump fireball, so of course, it would be the biggest fireball ever.

duforsure

(11,885 posts)
46. I agree too,
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 06:15 AM
Jan 2024

We're seeing a professional con man, and career criminal, and liar, lose his mental abilities to keep all his lies straight. As he progresses , and worsens , he'll get more desperate, and get more violent with his suggestions for others to be violent for him.

The GOP will dump him at some point after his conditions become public, and after he possibly has a stroke and/or a serious heart issue. He's losing his mind, and I'd bet he knows it. I wouldn't put anything past him doing to get into office again.

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
56. If I had a dime for every time someone's predicted #Traitor's demise
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 10:54 AM
Jan 2024

I’d be a rich person.

There’s no way he’s out unless he’s dead

limbicnuminousity

(1,407 posts)
67. Just wait for the convention
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 11:53 AM
Jan 2024

Imagine, Trump wins the nomination but is reduced to such a mess that the Republican Convention is contested a la the 1968 Democratic Convention. Fur flies. Names are called. Insinuations and admissions are made. Vaccines are denied. A measles outbreak occurs, making all male attendees infertile. The convention settles on compromise candidates including MTG for the presidency and Gaetz for the VP slot. Their platform: a junior Cross-Fit gym in every town offering Tantric Thursday and Sex-Trafficking Sunday specials.



DebbieCDC

(2,543 posts)
117. Dump as Charleton Heston...
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 03:51 PM
Jan 2024

…this image gave me a great laugh.

And sadly, it’s true. The MAGA will do anything to keep him propped up a la “Weekend at Bernie’s”.

kacekwl

(7,037 posts)
70. They will wheel
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:07 PM
Jan 2024

Him out on hand cart drooling from his mouth and ass at his rallies with one of his ass kissers speaking his BS and the deplorable cultists with stuff $$$ in his diaper. The spineless GOP will still be afraid to pull away.

uponit7771

(90,382 posts)
72. TFG will take minimum 15% of MAGA cult with him per county, that's a massive loss for GQP to eat but they wont
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:13 PM
Jan 2024

... make that investment (that they could've done nearly a decade ago) because they're extremely short siighted

louis-t

(23,323 posts)
77. Meanwhile, the media only reports Biden's "terrible poll numbers"
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:23 PM
Jan 2024

and ignores his accomplishments. Yet every step their orange monkey takes is breathlessly covered with hundreds of flashes going off. They continue to report his "record=breaking wins" .

PatrickforB

(14,619 posts)
79. Sometimes seeming coincidence happens that turns things around for the good side.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:23 PM
Jan 2024

I think he will sew up the nomination, but then may pass from natural causes (which for him may be from the long-term effects of drug abuse, poor nutrition, and advancing dementia) just prior to the election, forcing the GOP to substitute someone else really quick.

Then, there is the abortion issue. It is hanging like a huge millstone around the collective GOP neck.

If the Democratic party can aggressively message these things, as well as the real effect of Democratic presidents on the economy - we see plenty of nice bar graphs, but then we are the 'choir.'

So here is my prognostication:
Trump will get the GOP nomination in July, and win the nomination.

He will pass suddenly from natural causes, and the GOP will disgrace themselves with infighting on his successor.

Abortion will weight heavily at the state level, especially in states that have draconian abortion bans. Texas will turn blue. Swing states will be blue. People who care about women's rights (they are not all women, assuredly) will crawl over broken glass to vote AGAINST any Republican.

The 'no labels' party will not draw enough votes from Biden to make up for voters fleeing the GOP.

Biden will win, and Democrats will win back both the Senate and House.

As to what the party does after that, well, there are some major policy issues that are needed:
- Impose a publicly funded universal healthcare system using the Medicare infrastructure. Take the PROFIT MOTIVE out of healthcare, because it is in direct conflict with our interests as patients.
- Replace shareholder primacy with a stakeholder approach to governance of publicly traded corporations. If truth in news is included, this will act as an effective 21st century Fairness Doctrine.
- Impose a business-friendly immigration policy that helps us efficiently process immigrants and put them to work.
- Be a world leader in addressing climate change and returning biodiversity to the planet.
- Be a world leader in renewable energy, including development of hydrogen power.
- Give states the money they need to make infrastructure improvements that accommodate battery powered electric cars (they are heavier, so roads need to be strengthened, they burn hotter when on fire, so first responders need training, and many older homes need to be retrofitted with safe charging stations. Not sure what to do with the increased fire risk for homes with attached garages, but the will have to be addressed).
- Work with the Mayors and Governors to address the homeless problem, which stems from the high cost of housing.
- Make high-speed internet a public utility.
- Help Ukraine win the war Russia's invasion imposed on them.
- Help broker a real peace in the mid-east - I suspect Bibi will not be able to hold on to power in Israel when the dust settles and the true cost of Oct 7 and its fallout is tallied.

Well, nice thoughts. I do believe the Dems will sweep, but not sure if they will do these fundamental things to level the playing field for workers, racial and ethnic minorities, LGBTQ+ and so on. Especially the economic policies that must change - tax hikes for corporations and a wealth tax to make it harder to become or stay a billionaire. A nationwide legislated guarantee of abortion access. Policies that muzzle the libertarian billionaire-funded right wing propaganda organ that ejaculates lies to anyone listening to talk radio and corporate media.

One thing is absolutely certain: we will all see and then live through the 2024 election and beyond.

dlk

(11,652 posts)
81. Trump may be thoroughly battered and bruised, and completely deranged by the time of the general election
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:25 PM
Jan 2024

As long as there is a breath in his body, he will get there.

Botany

(70,730 posts)
84. He will be a stumbling bag of syphilitic dementia with a crushing load of civil penalties and facing massive....
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:26 PM
Jan 2024

…. Criminal charges too. I predict that he might expire from the stress and or try to flee
the country.

Progressive dog

(6,940 posts)
87. I think that you are right about Trump coming apart
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:28 PM
Jan 2024

but I can't imagine him not being the Republican nominee. The GOP has become the MAGA party and Trump is the only leader they will accept.

NoMoreRepugs

(9,564 posts)
88. I have a difficult time with the concept/statement that Slobby is cunning as a fox. If that
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:30 PM
Jan 2024

were the case would there not be recorded instances of him saying something intelligent versus the constant garbled nonsense??

hay rick

(7,710 posts)
89. I agree that we need to be ready to run against Haley.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:32 PM
Jan 2024

Trump is declining rapidly and the media can't hide it or pretend it away. The longer he is in the race the more it will strengthen the media frame that Haley is someone who can save us from Trump. Her deficiencies need to be brought out and emphasized now. Here is a recent post on the subject:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218609189

underpants

(183,259 posts)
91. They won't dump him but you are right
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 12:49 PM
Jan 2024

I’ve been saying this for a while now. He wears everyone but the cult out. He lost 2020 because of those COVID pressers. The suburbs watched those and they were repulsed by what they saw as they got to really know him. No leadership, absolutely no empathy, just excuses when no one was saying it was his fault.

He really is looking and sounding really bad.

JohnnyRingo

(18,746 posts)
102. He better make it. I was counting on it.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 01:49 PM
Jan 2024

He's the one candidate we know we can beat... a third time.
Especially with 30% of republicans saying they don't think they can vote for a convicted felon.

I'm afraid anyone else would be a crap shoot. More so if age is a factor.

RockRaven

(15,161 posts)
103. Yeah. We know Biden can beat TFG, b/c we've seen it happen.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 02:00 PM
Jan 2024

Biden vs Haley (w/Koch money)? Haven't seen that one, so I dunno.

TSExile

(2,664 posts)
111. But Nikki is a woman.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 03:16 PM
Jan 2024

The Grand Old Patriarchy and their voters hate women. Would they just not vote if Nikki was the only candidate?

Turbineguy

(37,475 posts)
107. My ideal solution is
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 02:23 PM
Jan 2024

that he is struck by lightning while playing golf and turned into a smoking piece of pork rind. On the other hand, I'd have to start going to church and I'm kind of busy.

Hamlette

(15,415 posts)
118. He doesn't want to make it to the election. He's afraid of losing again.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 03:54 PM
Jan 2024

He knows he lost in 2020. He knows some people view him differently after Jan 6, the E Jean Carrol trial, the New York civil fraud trial, stealing government documents and lying to the FBI about it and the Dobbs decision and he knows he'll lose the general election.

How many times can he cry wolf (they stole the election) before his support dwindles more.

He loves mass adulation from a large rally crowd. I've heard the size of his crowds is dwindling. He knows all his legal woes were exposed and/or prosecuted as a result of his first term in office. He loves money as much as he loves crowds. Another term would surely result in more lawsuits and wipe him out. He's a very unhappy man now. He's on a runaway train of his own making but he wants off. IMHO

John Farmer

(94 posts)
120. Wether he drops out before the convention
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 04:46 PM
Jan 2024

or afterward, they'll have to nominate someone else. That may be what Nikki Haley is hoping for.

CitizenZero

(540 posts)
146. I Agree
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 08:48 PM
Jan 2024

Haley needs to stay in all the way to the Republican National Convention. If Trump dies or implodes or gets convicted of felonies, Haley should be right there waiting in the wings to get the Republican nomination. Then it would be a fair fight between Haley and Biden. I think that Biden would win. I would rather risk losing to Haley than Trump. Haley is an odious conservative but Trump is a deranged and dangerous sociopath who wants to be a dictator. I would rather face Haley than risk another Trump presidency. He must be kept out of office at all costs.

Jarqui

(10,131 posts)
122. All the court cases on top of running for President is tremendous stress
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 04:56 PM
Jan 2024

The NY fraud case will introduce exponential financial stress - it will be hundreds of millions on top of the $100 mil to EJ Carroll
Those court decisions erode his support.

Right now the erosion is not as easy to see because it is a Republican primary - and the MAGAs don't care what he does criminally or otherwise.

It is a much tougher sell to the independents and Democrats

When the GOP sees he cannot win, they'll cut his political throat.

Torchlight

(3,539 posts)
124. I realize there are a ton of people who have confidence and faith in his strength as a agent of chaos
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 05:21 PM
Jan 2024

But they're the same ones I regularly giggle at and immediately dismiss out of hand. My guess is he peters out (politically as well as physcially) by July, and creates a for-profit power vacuum ready for the GOP's next idiot of choice to be annointed.

SarahD

(1,415 posts)
132. Violent outburst or heart attack.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 05:59 PM
Jan 2024

Or both. He could run through the crowd, hitting at people, and keel over with a stroke or heart attack.

DJ Porkchop

(463 posts)
133. I've been waiting for this post.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 06:01 PM
Jan 2024

The timing is about right. This crowd has good collective prognostication skills.
I've been thinking this for months. Just waiting for consensus to congeal.
It doesn't mean we can stay home, nay nay. Vote Blue straight ticket.
But the smell of TOAST is in the air... Can you smell it?





Aussie105

(5,571 posts)
138. I fell sorry for anyone who doesn't know their limitations.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 06:21 PM
Jan 2024

As you age, you notice something about yourself - physical and mental tasks get harder, you may be able to do them still, but it takes longer.

That's the time you need to back off, relax, and operate within your less capable sphere of comfort. Stop making grandiose plans for the future, just relax and enjoy what is left of your life.

So what drives Trump?

He is killing himself pretending he is immortal. (I guess we don't mind that too much.)

He was doing ok, sort of, acting the Big Man NY Tycoon, but then stepped up to the POTUS job where everyone with half a brain could see, after a while, he was a danger to the human race.

But yes, I'd be surprised if he makes it to the big election.

NJCher

(35,922 posts)
152. not to mention
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 11:01 PM
Jan 2024
He was doing ok, sort of, acting the Big Man NY Tycoon, but then stepped up to the POTUS job where everyone with half a brain could see, after a while, he was a danger to the human race.

Anybody with an ounce of common sense would be aware that in politics one's enemies will investigate you, find the dirt, and expose you.
He was doing just fine defrauding the taxpayers of NY and the federal gov't. Cy Vance pretty much gave him a pass, is that not correct?
But noooooooooooooo, he had to let his big ego get in the way and run for president and through the fluke of the electoral college, he could lose the popular vote big and walk away with the presidency. Almost reads like a movie script but no one would believe it.
Now he's going to get kicked out of the center for world capitalism. He will pay out millions to E. Jean and NY state and the federal government. $700 million is a lot of money in anyone's book.
If he'd just shut his effing mouth and kept on defrauding he would have been just fine.

oldsoftie

(12,728 posts)
139. The party will NOT dump him. They're scared of the Cult followers
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 07:03 PM
Jan 2024

Privately they may say it, but thats it.
He'll have to literally fall apart in public & lose the non-cultists.

CitizenZero

(540 posts)
143. Another Reason
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 08:14 PM
Jan 2024

Another reason that Nikki Haley should stay in the race as long as possible- should Trump get convicted of a felony before the Republican National Convention, Haley could be waiting in the wings to take the Republican nomination. This could be the case should significant numbers of Republicans oppose Trump if he is convicted of a felony. South Carolina is winner take all so Haley might not get any delegates if she does come in second, but if she continues to stay in the Primary race, there are a number of states that awards delegates proportionally. So Haley does not need to have a majority of the delegates. She just needs to have a substantial amount of delegates so that she could mobilize a floor vote at the convention should Trump be convicted of a felony.

keithbvadu2

(37,213 posts)
151. It could be worrisome that Trump NOT be the GOP candidate. I think he is the best for the democrats right now.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 10:52 PM
Jan 2024

He did not win in 2016 for his policies, and especially not for his integrity/morality.

He won for the hatred of Hillary by the right wing.

He has substantially less support now.

If he drops out, they have a chance to get a genuine candidate.

That's what DeSantis/Haley and all have been hoping for.

MerryBlooms

(11,779 posts)
153. Trump is their only candidate. I don't get where all these
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 11:10 PM
Jan 2024

weird predictions are coming from. RNC is funneling money from state coffers to Trump legal funds. Bankrupting republucan election runs. Trump is their guy. Period.

 

MyNameIsJonas

(744 posts)
157. It was the same in 2016 and 2020.
Sun Jan 28, 2024, 11:45 PM
Jan 2024

Some here can't seem to grasp that Trump, no matter how crazy he sounds/looks, is still supported by most the party.

If anything, Trump is more popular among Republicans today than he was in 2016 - and maybe even in 2020.

 

GhostHunter22

(95 posts)
164. He won't make it.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 12:31 PM
Jan 2024

There’s gonna be one Hell of a floor fight at the RNC I think.

Either Republicans rip themselves away from the MAGAts now, or they lose their party for a generation.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»I don't think Trump makes...