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yardwork

(62,084 posts)
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 03:44 PM Jan 2024

How the internet is erasing the Oct 7 Hamas massacre

Gift article: no firewall

https://wapo.st/4914mhj

WaPo updated the title to:

Growing Oct. 7 ‘truther’ groups say Hamas massacre was a false flag


In city council hearings, protests and online, a growing movement with ties to Holocaust denial is effacing history in real-time


By Elizabeth Dwoskin

January 21, 2024 at 10:00 a.m. ET


When she first heard about Hamas’ Oct. 7 attack on Israel, Mirela Monte was “appalled.” The South Carolina real estate agent and self-described holistic healer detests violence and is horrified by war and human suffering.


But as Monte read more in Uncensored Truths, a Telegram group with 2,958 subscribers active on foreign policy and the supposed perils of vaccination, her shock turned to anger.

According to the forum, the news reports were wrong: Secretly, Israel was behind the massacre. 
Monte now argues the Oct. 7 attack was a “false flag” staged by the Israelis — likely with help from the Americans — to justify genocide in Gaza. “Pure evil,” she said. “Israel is like a mad dog off a leash.”


The Oct. 7 Hamas terrorist attack is among the most well-documented in history. A crush of evidence from smartphone cameras and GoPros captured Hamas’ breach of the border — a strike Israel says left some 1,200 dead, the most deadly onslaught in the country’s history.

----
I am certain that these lies are being spread by the same bad actors who interfered with the 2016 U.S. election and helped cause Brexit.

It's up to all of us to sift through what we read on social media and what we're told by friends, and figure out truth vs. lies. Our democracy depends on each of us doing this.

84 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
How the internet is erasing the Oct 7 Hamas massacre (Original Post) yardwork Jan 2024 OP
No surprise and no doubt about. JohnSJ Jan 2024 #1
Thanks, John. yardwork Jan 2024 #2
Thank-you for this reminder JohnSJ Jan 2024 #7
Well we knew we would. We knew we'd see this. EllieBC Jan 2024 #3
"the white saviors" Behind the Aegis Jan 2024 #5
So "white saviors" Igel Jan 2024 #82
Totally unsurprising. Behind the Aegis Jan 2024 #4
Yes there are so many Lying their heads Cha Jan 2024 #6
+++ JohnSJ Jan 2024 #8
What a surprise that anti-vax zealots would buy into antisemitic conspiracy bullshit Orrex Jan 2024 #9
The extreme left and extreme right EllieBC Jan 2024 #10
The Triple-A Heel Bar that connects extremists on the opposite sides of the political Horseshoe.... Behind the Aegis Jan 2024 #13
What I don't get is EllieBC Jan 2024 #18
It's the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. Behind the Aegis Jan 2024 #20
I'm beginning to think the only way to fight the brain rot is to reframe everything as a conspiracy theory. chowder66 Jan 2024 #11
Not surprising at all. sheshe2 Jan 2024 #12
The False-flag fallback is a convenient way to avoid having to deal with one's own ethical-emotional-empathy- sanatanadharma Jan 2024 #14
Yes, it's a convenient way to deal with complexity. yardwork Jan 2024 #21
Rec TY Cha Jan 2024 #32
Women were gang raped and murdered mcar Jan 2024 #15
Times of Israel - 2 babies died Oct 7 -Mila Cohen 10 months old died womanofthehills Jan 2024 #48
Nothing in your post disputes that Hamas raped and tortured TexasDem69 Jan 2024 #57
Keep what facts straight? What are you saying? yardwork Jan 2024 #62
WHAT "FACTS STRAIGHT"? Cha Jan 2024 #72
Thanks for keeping the facts straight mcar Jan 2024 #79
Hold on a second, just noticed something about your post TexasDem69 Jan 2024 #84
Plenty seem intent on doing that here as well. tritsofme Jan 2024 #16
It seems remotely possible that 25,000 deaths in Gaza might have something to do with it. NNadir Jan 2024 #17
Did you read the article? Probably not, I'm guessing. yardwork Jan 2024 #19
Remember, whenever you post something not completely/mostly critical of Israel... Behind the Aegis Jan 2024 #22
"This bad thing happened so that other bad thing didn't really happen." yardwork Jan 2024 #23
I did not, and neither do I have any intention of doing so. NNadir Jan 2024 #24
Is it hard to breathe the air way up there? yardwork Jan 2024 #25
Not at all. How's breathing in the trenches? NNadir Jan 2024 #27
Journalistic spin? The article is reporting on Conspiracy Theorists claiming Oct 7th didn't happen or emulatorloo Jan 2024 #52
...and...the point is what? NNadir Jan 2024 #54
The point is you attempted to discredit an article by claiming it is about something that it isn't about. emulatorloo Jan 2024 #59
The article is only immune from being discredited if knowledge of Hamas's crimes has been erased. NNadir Jan 2024 #61
Thanks for Pointing that out about Cha Jan 2024 #74
If people want Trump to be defeated, they need to pay attention. yardwork Jan 2024 #56
And then get outraged! when it is pointed out their assumptions have ZERO to do with the article's content. emulatorloo Jan 2024 #60
Performative outrage is one reaction to being embarrassed. yardwork Jan 2024 #63
I'm convinced there's Kremlin psy ops around all of this Arazi Jan 2024 #64
I agree with you, on all points. yardwork Jan 2024 #66
"Journalistic spin"?!? There is no rationalization in the article. What are you reaching for here? SoFlaBro Jan 2024 #58
The original title (which the WP has now changed) didn't encourage reading - it was hyperbole muriel_volestrangler Jan 2024 #49
Thanks for providing the updated title. I'll update my OP. yardwork Jan 2024 #53
Shouldn't this Jilly_in_VA Jan 2024 #26
Have you missed the hundreds, if not thousands, of OPs about I/P mcar Jan 2024 #80
Why is this bullshit so seductive? Turbineguy Jan 2024 #28
I think that's exactly the appeal of QAnon and other conspiracy clubs. yardwork Jan 2024 #29
I had friends in the 90s who were really into xmas74 Jan 2024 #40
There is no question that October 7 was a horrific wantom act. But flashman13 Jan 2024 #30
The article is not about that, though. yardwork Jan 2024 #33
I guess you think WWII went too far as well? Happy Hoosier Jan 2024 #38
The Netanyahu government too ColinC Jan 2024 #50
Okay... so what comes next? Happy Hoosier Jan 2024 #55
Bibi isn't just "an asshole" he is a terrorist. Our supporting him is no better than if we outright gave weapons to ColinC Jan 2024 #67
I'd love to see him out... Happy Hoosier Jan 2024 #69
Literally ANY Israeli government would have done the same NickB79 Jan 2024 #73
But, but Israel mcar Jan 2024 #81
1,400 Israelis were killed in the attack... surfered Jan 2024 #31
Ok, what does that have to do with the article, though? yardwork Jan 2024 #34
That does NOT Justify Blaming Israel for "Killing their own People on Oct 7.".. Cha Jan 2024 #35
You think the casualties are the point? Happy Hoosier Jan 2024 #42
Yet that is not what the OP is about. sheshe2 Jan 2024 #47
Post removed Post removed Jan 2024 #36
I know their story, if that's what you mean. yardwork Jan 2024 #37
Many of them remain in captivity gratuitous Jan 2024 #39
Nope, and I've pointed it out here before. yardwork Jan 2024 #41
Yet what does this have to do with an article xmas74 Jan 2024 #44
Meanwhile... NY_Gunner Jan 2024 #43
Kinda off topic to article being discussed (Conspiracy theorists who claim Oct 7th is a "false flag.") emulatorloo Jan 2024 #51
For the latest news from Israel SidneyR Jan 2024 #45
What Does that have to Do with the OP? Cha Jan 2024 #76
But Israel... sarisataka Jan 2024 #46
What American group wants to kill more Jews? Trump's republicans. keithbvadu2 Jan 2024 #65
And on cue the pro Hamas faction appears in the WaPo comment section Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jan 2024 #68
I saw that, and it proved the truth of the article in real time. yardwork Jan 2024 #70
You didn't even have to do that shallow dive. OilemFirchen Jan 2024 #71
Hell, there are practically a few here in this thread NickB79 Jan 2024 #75
I'm sure... I see enough of that shit. Cha Jan 2024 #77
'The internet' is apparently a 3000 member chat group. Voltaire2 Jan 2024 #78
Not into conspiracy theories, but... lees1975 Jan 2024 #83

EllieBC

(3,138 posts)
3. Well we knew we would. We knew we'd see this.
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 04:00 PM
Jan 2024

AntiSemites and the white saviors were determined to make excuses for October 7. They started on October 7.

Igel

(35,566 posts)
82. So "white saviors"
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 09:27 PM
Jan 2024

would jump in to support "brown" Palestinians and reject "white" Jews?

Excuse me?

Apart from some idjits in high school on the basis of my learning Spanish when they couldn't--and having seen precisely 0 Mexicans or Mexican-Americans since it was the mid-70s in a backwater of MD--nobody has ever thought me non-white.

More than a few have thought me Jewish. (Full disclosure: I'm Scots-Irish American.)

Behind the Aegis

(54,248 posts)
4. Totally unsurprising.
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 04:03 PM
Jan 2024

A form of bigotry many look over, probably because it is used so much by both sides, is "regionalism". This is very popular when Israel is concerned. (((I))) wonder why? I see the same stupidity (and bigotry) in those screeching like deranged, lobotomized parrots, "ONE STATE IS THE ANSWER! SQUAWK!"

Cha

(299,517 posts)
6. Yes there are so many Lying their heads
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 04:09 PM
Jan 2024

OFF about what actually happened on Oct 7.. they can't handle the Truth.

"Mirela Monte was “appalled." I was Horrified and heart crushed.


Thank Goodness there are those of us who won't let the Truth Die.

Mahalo for the gift, yardwork

It’s bleeding into the real world: Demonstrators have shouted the claim at anti-Israel protests and have used it to justify removing posters of hostages in cities like London and Chicago. At a November city council meeting in Oakland, Calif., multiple residents disputed the veracity of the attack.

They're Pro HAMAS heartLess Idiots.

Orrex

(63,457 posts)
9. What a surprise that anti-vax zealots would buy into antisemitic conspiracy bullshit
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 04:23 PM
Jan 2024

Of course, the peril is that it will certainly spread beyond extremist fringe groups.

I'm only surprised that it took so long.

Behind the Aegis

(54,248 posts)
13. The Triple-A Heel Bar that connects extremists on the opposite sides of the political Horseshoe....
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 04:49 PM
Jan 2024

Authoritarianism, Absolutism, and, of course, Anti-Semitism. "Authoritarianism", agree with us or you will be punished. "Absolutism", we have all the answers and there can be no deviation from what we have laid out as "truth". And, "Anti-Semitism", well, that one is pretty self-explanatory, but they use it as, "the Jews (or any Jewish substitute) are the bad guys and we are the true victims."

EllieBC

(3,138 posts)
18. What I don't get is
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 04:57 PM
Jan 2024

why is there so much insistence that no one on the left can be an antisemite??

They even use the same lines and lies as the far right. It’s literally the same hate.

Behind the Aegis

(54,248 posts)
20. It's the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 05:03 PM
Jan 2024

What "cracks me up", is some of the ones screeching that mantra, "There is no anti-Semitism on the left" are the same ones who simultaneously screech, "Racism/Sexism/Transphobia/Islamophobia must be purged from the left!" Of course, some of those doing the belching of stupidity, are the ones who post pics of Nazis (neo and classic versions), and say, "THAT is not happening on OUR side." As if, the ONLY forms of anti-Semitism are exemplified by those cretins.

chowder66

(9,255 posts)
11. I'm beginning to think the only way to fight the brain rot is to reframe everything as a conspiracy theory.
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 04:47 PM
Jan 2024

However, the only way it will work is if the conspiracies are allegedly perpetrated by fellow Americans and our institutions, otherwise it's all bullshit in the minds of people who get off hating their own fellow citizens.

It's all so fucking ludicrous.

sanatanadharma

(3,820 posts)
14. The False-flag fallback is a convenient way to avoid having to deal with one's own ethical-emotional-empathy-
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 04:53 PM
Jan 2024

The False-flag fallback is a convenient way to avoid having to deal with one's own ethical-emotional-empathy-emptiness born of hopelessness.
The hopelessness of living in a world of human pain, reflecting one's own insecurities.
Instead, self-identity-protection (ego) wrongly argues that salvation is to be found in believing a story that frees one from the slings and arrows of outrageous objective reality. They retreat into the world of the few who 'truly know'; a reality for those who find illusions to be more malleable than veracity.

It didn't happen so I don't have to deal with it. This is the beguiling beauty of false-flag-foolishness.

yardwork

(62,084 posts)
21. Yes, it's a convenient way to deal with complexity.
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 05:04 PM
Jan 2024

It's so much easier to create a cartoon bad guy and root for the other side, than have to wade into the muck of complex human behavior.

mcar

(42,719 posts)
15. Women were gang raped and murdered
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 04:55 PM
Jan 2024

Babies tortured and murdered. Hamas made and posted videos showing these murders.

Anyone who supports Hamas or buys into this horrible lie is an idiot.

womanofthehills

(8,925 posts)
48. Times of Israel - 2 babies died Oct 7 -Mila Cohen 10 months old died
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 06:22 PM
Jan 2024

Two babies are two babies too much but let’s keep the facts straight. It’s horrible to see any child suffer or die from any country.


Times of Israel

“14 kids under 10, 25 people over 80: Up-to-date breakdown of Oct 7 victims we know about”

“One of them was a baby under the age of one year — 10-month-old Mila Cohen, killed with her father and grandmother.

According to data by Haaretz, a Bedouin woman at the tail end of her pregnancy was shot in the abdomen while heading to the hospital to give birth, said where doctors delivered the baby, but failed to save it.

Additionally, 12 children aged 1 to 9 — 10 boys and two girls — were murdered in the Hamas massacres, according to Walla.

Between the ages of 10 and 19, 36 civilians were murdered, 25 of them male and 11 female.

The largest number of confirmed civilian victims, 421, were in the age group of 20-40. Among them were 259 men and 162 women.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/14-kids-under-10-25-people-over-80-up-to-date-breakdown-of-oct-7-victims-we-know-about/

TexasDem69

(2,106 posts)
57. Nothing in your post disputes that Hamas raped and tortured
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 07:10 PM
Jan 2024

Women and children. These are intentional rapes and murders, committed by hand by Hamas’ terrorists and planned by Hamas’ leaders. Please tell me you aren’t defending Hamas or minimizing Hamas’ actions.

yardwork

(62,084 posts)
62. Keep what facts straight? What are you saying?
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 07:22 PM
Jan 2024

The poster noted that babies were killed on October 7. Are you disputing that?

mcar

(42,719 posts)
79. Thanks for keeping the facts straight
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 09:07 PM
Jan 2024

Hamas murdered babies and young children. They gang raped, mutilated and murdered women and girls. They slaughtered 1200 innocent people and kidnapped and did who knows what to 200 more.

It was not a "false flag" operation. It was a horrific, brutal, terrorist attack.

TexasDem69

(2,106 posts)
84. Hold on a second, just noticed something about your post
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 09:49 PM
Jan 2024

Humans aged 1-9 are “children” but those 10-19 aren’t? I’m on board with the idea that a 19 year old is an adult, but there’s no world in which someone 10-12 years old is anything other than a child. Yet you are suggesting they aren’t.

 

NNadir

(33,642 posts)
17. It seems remotely possible that 25,000 deaths in Gaza might have something to do with it.
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 04:56 PM
Jan 2024

I'm certainly no fan of Hamas, but neither am I a fan of Netanyahu.

Bombs fall on the innocent and guilty alike.

War is always atrocity ratcheting, but the focus on the origins over the results is certainly ethically questionable.

Behind the Aegis

(54,248 posts)
22. Remember, whenever you post something not completely/mostly critical of Israel...
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 05:05 PM
Jan 2024

...or anything which might cast the pale light of sympathy for Israel or Israelis, the need for equivocation arises.

yardwork

(62,084 posts)
23. "This bad thing happened so that other bad thing didn't really happen."
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 05:10 PM
Jan 2024

Right wingers play this game a lot. It turns out that some who are supposedly on the left play it too.

I can think of some equivalent comments that would make some people mad, but I won't post them. It's a pretty easy game to play if you're intellectually dishonest and seeking justification for lazy stereotyping.

 

NNadir

(33,642 posts)
24. I did not, and neither do I have any intention of doing so.
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 05:10 PM
Jan 2024

As far as I'm concerned there is no rationalization of events on either side, and I personally don't believe that what Hamas did has been or can be "erased," anymore than what Netanyahu did has been or can be "erased."

I don't need journalistic spin to be thoroughly disgusted by the whole affair, both sides.

 

NNadir

(33,642 posts)
27. Not at all. How's breathing in the trenches?
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 05:14 PM
Jan 2024

Hopefully not too many fumes from the explosives...

emulatorloo

(44,441 posts)
52. Journalistic spin? The article is reporting on Conspiracy Theorists claiming Oct 7th didn't happen or
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 07:01 PM
Jan 2024

was a false flag.

There is nothing at all in the article about “rationalization from both sides.”

emulatorloo

(44,441 posts)
59. The point is you attempted to discredit an article by claiming it is about something that it isn't about.
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 07:15 PM
Jan 2024

You essentially created a strawman argument, and made irrelevant comments to counter a artcle thst didn’t say anytying like you ass-umed it did.

Probably would have been a good idea to read the article before commenting. JMHO of course.

 

NNadir

(33,642 posts)
61. The article is only immune from being discredited if knowledge of Hamas's crimes has been erased.
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 07:20 PM
Jan 2024

It has not been "erased."

If there are a bunch of weak minds for whom they've been "erased," does not mean that rational people "erase" them.

Most people know what Hamas did. I do. You apparently do.

I'll file the title with "...Hillary Clinton's Emails..." and "Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction" titles.

The problem with journalists in this country is their obscene abuse of rhetoric by appeal to hyperbole.

Cha

(299,517 posts)
74. Thanks for Pointing that out about
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 08:36 PM
Jan 2024

the Strawman.... it was hard to follow what it was being said

You made very clear points. TY for shining the Light!

yardwork

(62,084 posts)
56. If people want Trump to be defeated, they need to pay attention.
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 07:08 PM
Jan 2024

I'm actually disgusted by the number of responders to this thread who didn't bother to read the article, but felt compelled to post their opinion about what they assumed it says.

TL;DR - This conspiracy theory encourages people to vote for Trump.

emulatorloo

(44,441 posts)
60. And then get outraged! when it is pointed out their assumptions have ZERO to do with the article's content.
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 07:17 PM
Jan 2024

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
64. I'm convinced there's Kremlin psy ops around all of this
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 07:35 PM
Jan 2024

The level of propaganda, misinfo, deliberate lies and now outright denial! is infuriating.

It’s designed to suppress Dem votes, hurt Biden, split our party, and help #Traitor.

I’m really shocked that it’s worked so well even here in this small patch of social media. Very discouraging. I know the Russians are masters at this (and KSA, China and whichever other authoritarian states are also participating) but I naively thought this group was savvy on this.

yardwork

(62,084 posts)
66. I agree with you, on all points.
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 07:40 PM
Jan 2024

The disagreements on DU are nothing compared to what's happening on college campuses and elsewhere. A bunch of people seem to have lost their minds.

It's not just pay-ops. Whoever came up with the idea of having Hamas launch this attack, knowing exactly how Netanyahu would react, is an evil genius. The whole thing is incredibly clever.

SoFlaBro

(2,331 posts)
58. "Journalistic spin"?!? There is no rationalization in the article. What are you reaching for here?
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 07:15 PM
Jan 2024

muriel_volestrangler

(101,633 posts)
49. The original title (which the WP has now changed) didn't encourage reading - it was hyperbole
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 06:27 PM
Jan 2024

"How the internet is erasing the Oct. 7 Hamas massacre" has been changed to "Growing Oct. 7 ‘truther’ groups say Hamas massacre was a false flag". It was ridiculous to blame "the internet", and to make it sound as if general knowledge of the Oct 7th massacre was somehow disappearing. The 'truther' groups are fringe.

yardwork

(62,084 posts)
53. Thanks for providing the updated title. I'll update my OP.
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 07:03 PM
Jan 2024

However, choosing to comment on an article while proudly proclaiming that it's beneath their notice to actually read it is not something I can admire.

Turbineguy

(37,587 posts)
28. Why is this bullshit so seductive?
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 05:18 PM
Jan 2024

I had a colleague in the 90's who was into, as they were known then, urban legends. It was fascinating. Having this "knowledge" made you feel smart, special, and well informed.

And you are all those things, unless you fuck it all up by finding out the facts.

yardwork

(62,084 posts)
29. I think that's exactly the appeal of QAnon and other conspiracy clubs.
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 05:23 PM
Jan 2024

I think seductive is the word. It's so tempting to have easy answers to everything - especially if you're part of a club who are the only ones who know.

So much easier to give into biases, stereotypes, and blame, rather than look at the whole big messy thing and have to make difficult choices and acknowledge the complexities. I think that makes insecure people feel dumb.

xmas74

(29,693 posts)
40. I had friends in the 90s who were really into
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 05:47 PM
Jan 2024

CT and had a theory for everything. Living within a short dash down the road from a Minuteman silo fed into it. (Yes, we all knew what it was. It wasn't a secret.)
Guess what they all had in common? They were tweakers. A couple were straight up junkies. They all worked during the 90s, dried out in the early 2000s but didn't leave their old tweaker thoughts behind. When they dried out and found Jesus they became ultra conservative, crunchy preppers who found others to spread their nonsense.

And yes, they are all antisemitic. Many of their biggest CTs involved the Jewish community.

flashman13

(771 posts)
30. There is no question that October 7 was a horrific wantom act. But
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 05:28 PM
Jan 2024

you can't look at 25,000 dead (mostly women and children), 2,000,000 people displaced from their homes, and an entire city razed to the ground as righteous justice. I can't.

And one more thing, the next round of atrocities is being incubated in those ruins unless some sort of just peace between Israelis and Palestinians is reached. The two peoples have been betrayed by their leaders. Bibi, those people that run Hamas, and all of the religious fanatics must be replaced.

yardwork

(62,084 posts)
33. The article is not about that, though.
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 05:31 PM
Jan 2024

The article - which is free to read - is about conspiracy theories that claim the October 7 attack didn't happen at all, or was perpetrated by Israel and/or the U.S.

These lies are convincing people to vote against Biden in the election.

Happy Hoosier

(7,640 posts)
38. I guess you think WWII went too far as well?
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 05:43 PM
Jan 2024

If so, at least you’re consistent.

Urban warfare is ugly and bloody. This is exactly the outcome Hamas wanted…

ColinC

(8,549 posts)
50. The Netanyahu government too
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 06:43 PM
Jan 2024

It suits both sides greatly while everyday Palestinians and Israelis continue to suffer and die

Happy Hoosier

(7,640 posts)
55. Okay... so what comes next?
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 07:08 PM
Jan 2024

Any solution that leaves Hamas is power is kot acceptable.

It’s fair to think Nutandyahoo is an asshole.

But Oct 7 happened, and Hamas did it. Do you think a solution that leaves them in power is going to be acceptable?

It’s fine to rail against Bibi. He deserves it. But it’s not a solution.

ColinC

(8,549 posts)
67. Bibi isn't just "an asshole" he is a terrorist. Our supporting him is no better than if we outright gave weapons to
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 07:58 PM
Jan 2024

Hamas.

Right now the solution that ensures Hamas stays in power is the one that is currently being pursued by the Netanyahu government. If you don’t want Hamas in power, the first order of business would be to get rid of Netanyahu. If you haven’t noticed already, he is their number one fan and has no interest in actually removing Hamas outside of killing one or two of their leadership which is easily replaced and murdering thousands of civilians.

Happy Hoosier

(7,640 posts)
69. I'd love to see him out...
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 08:07 PM
Jan 2024

Heck, I’d love to see him jail.

But Hamas will only be removed by force, whoever is in charge in Israel

NickB79

(19,356 posts)
73. Literally ANY Israeli government would have done the same
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 08:35 PM
Jan 2024

No Israeli politician would have held back after what happened on Oct 7. The attacks by Hamas were so horrific that no Israeli politician could have not brought their military might to bear on Gaza.

And that was precisely what Hamas wanted.

Is Netanyahu a right-wing POS? Yes.

Would any of his political opponents, if they were in his shoes, done exactly the same response? Also yes.

surfered

(935 posts)
31. 1,400 Israelis were killed in the attack...
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 05:28 PM
Jan 2024

…25,000 Palestinians, including women an children, have been killed in the Israeli response.

Cha

(299,517 posts)
35. That does NOT Justify Blaming Israel for "Killing their own People on Oct 7."..
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 05:38 PM
Jan 2024

which is what the OP is about if you read the Article.

This is on HAMAS.. Israel Offered a Humanitarian Ceasefire on Dec 20 and HAMAS said an Unequivocal NO.

Happy Hoosier

(7,640 posts)
42. You think the casualties are the point?
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 05:47 PM
Jan 2024

I’m sure some in Israel think that way, but the point, it seems to me, is to remove Hamas from power… Ua know, the guys who planned and launched the Oct 7 massacres and rape squads.

Any outcome that leaves these assholes in power, planning to do it again, is a non-starter.

It’s like having a terrorist organization as your government is a bad idea.

sheshe2

(84,594 posts)
47. Yet that is not what the OP is about.
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 06:19 PM
Jan 2024

It is about the erasure of the fact that this started on 10/07 by Hamas.

Erasing history.

The article talks of the conspiracy theories being spread on social media. ie: Israel captured their own citizens and delivered them to Hamas and that is after 'paid' actors massacred 1200 Israelis? Do you realize how absurd this sounds?

Response to yardwork (Original post)

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
39. Many of them remain in captivity
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 05:46 PM
Jan 2024

And yet do you see anything anywhere about their ongoing plight, forcibly married to their captors and forced to bear their children?

xmas74

(29,693 posts)
44. Yet what does this have to do with an article
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 05:54 PM
Jan 2024

About the erasure of HAMAS in the October 7th massacre?
I know about the women and I hope they are still alive or at least recovered and given to their families for their final rest. What I don't understand is how an article that talks about how groups have used an event against Jews and turned it into a false flag as a way to further promote antisemitism has anything to do with Boko Haram.

emulatorloo

(44,441 posts)
51. Kinda off topic to article being discussed (Conspiracy theorists who claim Oct 7th is a "false flag.")
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 06:52 PM
Jan 2024

Example:

“Israel murdered their own people on October 7,” said Christina Gutierrez, an analyst in the city’s housing department






Welcome to DU!

SidneyR

(89 posts)
45. For the latest news from Israel
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 06:13 PM
Jan 2024

Go to "Life on the border with Gaza - things people may not know but . . . " on Facebook. Not the full title, but I'm locked out of my FB account because I don't have another "device" to verify my account. Anyway, great site.

Cha

(299,517 posts)
76. What Does that have to Do with the OP?
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 08:44 PM
Jan 2024
Israel murdered their own people on October 7,” said Christina Gutierrez, an analyst in the city’s housing department, where some in the crowd shouted “antisemitism isn’t real.” Gutierrez did not respond to requests for comment.

The link is in he OP.

sarisataka

(19,559 posts)
46. But Israel...
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 06:16 PM
Jan 2024

It is retroactively justified because
Israel did it....
Propaganda...
What massacre?

Or the actual reason, "it's just ****"

Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(109,634 posts)
68. And on cue the pro Hamas faction appears in the WaPo comment section
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 08:06 PM
Jan 2024

Some pretty offensive stuff If you have access.

OilemFirchen

(7,143 posts)
71. You didn't even have to do that shallow dive.
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 08:21 PM
Jan 2024

There are an adequate number of said faction right fucking here.

Voltaire2

(13,744 posts)
78. 'The internet' is apparently a 3000 member chat group.
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 08:46 PM
Jan 2024

And here, all along, I thought the internet was dominated by huge platforms with hundreds of millions, even billions of users. Platforms owned and operated by tech oligarchs.

lees1975

(4,076 posts)
83. Not into conspiracy theories, but...
Sun Jan 21, 2024, 09:44 PM
Jan 2024

It's interesting to note how this is being almost immediately twisted into a political issue to try and lay responsibility for Gaza on to the President. What most of those pro-Palestinian protesters don't seem to know is that they will be targets for elimination if the Maga crowd gets their dictator in the White House in November. There won't be any Pro-Palestinian protesters, they'll be filling jails and prisons and convicted without trials. That's exactly where this is headed.

Israel's response to the attack has gone way out of the bounds of reasonable expectations, not only from an international perspective, but also, clearly, from the perspective of a majority of their own people. I think a reckoning with Netanyahu and his government is coming. I also think that the direction this seems to be headed here is clear-minded and realistic, and that what this has become is well beyond acceptable expectations for our administration, too. Of course, if we had a president unrestrained by the rule of law, the constitution, and with blanket immunity, he could either drop a nuke or two on Gaza, which is what the extremist right thinks is necessary to solve international problems, or have the Israeli leader assassinated, if they didn't do what he wanted.

And none of what is happening now is helping the Palestinian people.

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