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Baitball Blogger

(47,461 posts)
Sun Jan 14, 2024, 12:31 PM Jan 2024

Seasoned DUers: Didn't we resolve this issue of presidential immunity with Nixon?

Didn't Nixon claim that what he did was okay because he was the president? Something like, "It's okay when the president does it." So, wasn't this issue resolved with Watergate? Or did we fail to land a knock out punch because he stepped down and we didn't get to reach a proper conclusion?

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former9thward

(33,044 posts)
2. Nixon was not charged criminally.
Sun Jan 14, 2024, 12:44 PM
Jan 2024

In fact, in Nixon v. Fitzgerald, 457 U.S. 731 (1982) the Supreme Court agreed with Nixon that a president has absolute immunity when it comes to civil actions against him as a result of his actions while president.

The court said:

“In view of the special nature of the President's constitutional office and functions, we think it appropriate to recognize absolute Presidential immunity from damages liability for acts within the ‘outer perimeter’ of his official responsibility.”

In other words, as long the action for which he is facing suit is within the broadest understanding of his function as President, the President is off the hook.

In the Jan. 6th case Trump is arguing his actions were that of president and Smith is saying they are not.

Ocelot II

(119,157 posts)
4. Nixon resigned because he knew he was going to be impeached,
Sun Jan 14, 2024, 12:51 PM
Jan 2024

and he accepted Ford's pardon because he knew he was likely to be prosecuted. There was never any question about immunity at the time. Sometime later, in 1977, he said in an interview that when a president does something it's legal. Nobody ever actually believed that, though; and Nixon certainly didn't either. In fact, that statement was qualified as referring to acts taken for purposes of national security. Here's a transcript of that part of the interview:

Frost: So, what in a sense you’re saying is that there are certain situations and the Huston plan or that part of it was one of them where the president can decide that it’s in the best interest of the nation or something and do something illegal.

Nixon: Well, when the president does it … that means that it is not illegal.

Frost: By definition –

Nixon: Exactly … exactly… if the president … if, for example, the president approves something … approves an action, ah … because of the national security or in this case because of a threat to internal peace and order of, ah … ah … significant magnitude … then … the president’s decision in that instance is one, ah … that enables those who carry it out to carry it out without violating a law. Otherwise they’re in an impossible position.

Frost: So that the black-bag jobs that were authorized in the Huston plan … if they’d gone ahead, would have been made legal by your action?

Nixon: Well … I think that we would … I think that we’re splitting hairs here. Burglaries per se are illegal. Let’s begin with that proposition. Second, when a burglary, as you have described a black-bag job, ah … when a burglary, ah … is one that is undertaken because of an expressed policy decided by the president, ah … in the interests of the national security … or in the interests of domestic tranquility … ah … when those interests are very, very high … and when the device will be used in a very limited and cautious manner and responsible manner … when it is undertaken, then, then that means that what would otherwise be technically illegal does not subject those who engage in such activity to criminal prosecution. That’s the way I would put it. Now, that isn’t trying to split hairs … but I do not mean to suggest the president is above the law … what I am suggesting, however, what we have to understand, is, in wartime particularly, war abroad, and virtually revolution in certain concentrated areas at home, that a president does have under the Constitution extraordinary powers and must exert them with … as little as possible. . . .
https://teachingamericanhistory.org/document/transcript-of-david-frosts-interview-with-richard-nixon/

So what Nixon was saying was that if actions that are ordinarily against the law are taken in the interests of national security or other national concerns, those actions should not result in prosecution. He added that he did "not mean to suggest the president is above the law," only that a president has "extraordinary powers" that can be used under certain circumstances to protect the national interest. This is not what Trump is claiming at all. Trump's argument is that a president can't be prosecuted at all for any crimes committed as president - including the murder of political opponents - unless he is first impeached and removed from office, which is ridiculous. Even Nixon didn't suggest anything like that.

Ocelot II

(119,157 posts)
7. There were rumors at the time that he'd made some kind of deal with Ford,
Sun Jan 14, 2024, 02:02 PM
Jan 2024

though nothing was ever proved. Regardless, all hell broke loose; a lot of people were outraged (me included) and Ford paid the price in the next election. I think Ford's intent, whether or not there had been an agreement beforehand, was to get Nixon out of the headlines as quickly as possible in order to protect the reputation of the GOP and the politicians who had supported him. It didn't work.

Baitball Blogger

(47,461 posts)
9. God only knows how a determined conservative Supreme Court is going to handle this.
Sun Jan 14, 2024, 02:48 PM
Jan 2024

It might take us deeper down the rabbit hole.

struggle4progress

(119,355 posts)
5. For a while now, the GOP has been having trouble coming up with new ideas:
Sun Jan 14, 2024, 01:50 PM
Jan 2024

so we're seeing lots of idiocies recycled

2naSalit

(90,705 posts)
10. Simple answer...
Sun Jan 14, 2024, 02:50 PM
Jan 2024

Yes and it was generally accepted that the president can be held accountable in a court of law which is not even close to the same as impeachment conviction from the Senate.

It wasn't until the orange antichrist showed up and started spewing doublespeak while committing massive crime.

ificandream

(10,163 posts)
13. To the Orange Seditionist, I don't think it would have mattered what Ford or Nixon did.
Sun Jan 14, 2024, 03:21 PM
Jan 2024

He thinks he's above the law.

pnwmom

(109,362 posts)
14. Didn't we resolve the issue of abortion with Roe v Wade?
Sun Jan 14, 2024, 03:27 PM
Jan 2024

I have no confidence that this Supreme Court would consider the issue of Presidential immunity resolved, but we'll see.

11 Bravo

(24,036 posts)
15. But Nixon was just a mere mortal.
Sun Jan 14, 2024, 05:51 PM
Jan 2024

Brain dead MAGAT jackasses sincerely believe that Trump is a deity, so the rules no longer exist.

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